IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 13 February 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:17 | <S_A> Hi! What is MTB ?
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| 00:17 | some one is asking for MTB in thin client. Can anyone tell me what it is ?
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| 00:17 | <johnny> huh?
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| 00:20 | <S_A> ???
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| 00:20 | is it some application ?
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| 00:21 | <Ryan52> S_A, what's MTB?
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| 00:22 | <johnny> we need more context S_A
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| 00:23 | Ryan52, he's asking us what it is :)
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| 00:23 | <Ryan52> o.
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| 00:23 | <S_A> Ryan52: i seems to be some application. and is refered as a requirement to me along with citrix and ekiga
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| 00:23 | :)
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| 00:23 | <johnny> we don't know
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| 00:23 | it's not related to thin clients at all
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| 00:23 | or ltsp
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| 00:23 | you're probably going to have to ask google
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| 00:24 | err.. ask a search engine
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| 00:27 | <S_A> I am already trying. what no result as of now. I will search. thanks
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| 00:58 | <alkisg_work> How can I backup /home to /homebackup (while booted from a live cd)? sudo rsync -av /home /homebackup destroys the owners...
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| 00:59 | Does it check for existing UIDs before the copy? Cause with a live cd, these users of course don't exist...
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| 01:01 | Will cp -a do?
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| 04:05 | <Phille> good morning
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| 07:58 | <Remaille> hi all
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| 07:58 | In my school network we have a win 2003 server with active directory for users authentification
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| 07:59 | do you have any goods links explaining how allow users to connect to thin clients with the same login/pass ?
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| 07:59 | I googled a lot but found too much information (and i am a newbie too)
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| 08:00 | I am a bit lost so... thanks
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| 08:07 | <Gadi_eeepc> Remaille: by default, WTS usually is set to allow 1 connection per user, which makes the session migrate with the user
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| 08:07 | go to Terminal Services Configuration
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| 08:07 | and right click on the connection
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| 08:07 | (or is it let click?)
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| 08:08 | you should see a config to set allow multiple connections to the same user
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| 08:08 | (i think)
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| 08:48 | <jammcq> good morning #ltsp
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| 08:57 | <etyack> jammcq: morning sunshine
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| 08:58 | <jammcq> :)
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| 09:33 | <rjune> !j
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| 09:33 | <ltspbot> rjune: "j" is jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 09:45 | ace_suares has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:45 | <ace_suares> hi all
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| 09:47 | !seen ogra
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| 09:47 | <ltspbot> ace_suares: ogra was last seen in #ltsp 21 hours, 53 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <ogra> johnny, oh, do you know why ?
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| 09:48 | <ace_suares> !seen rjune
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| 09:48 | <ltspbot> ace_suares: rjune was last seen in #ltsp 14 minutes and 54 seconds ago: <rjune> !j
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| 09:48 | <ace_suares> rjune: hi, just one question, what's the status of local apps?
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| 09:50 | <rjune> no clue. I've not tracked it for a bit
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| 09:50 | <ace_suares> rjune thx maybe scott knows
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| 09:50 | <rjune> I'm not an active participant at the moment. I just lurk and offer what help I can.
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| 09:50 | <ace_suares> !sbalneav
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| 09:50 | <ltspbot> ace_suares: Error: "sbalneav" is not a valid command.
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| 09:50 | <ace_suares> oh sorry
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| 09:51 | <rjune> heh
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| 09:51 | <ace_suares> !seen sbalneav
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| 09:51 | <ltspbot> ace_suares: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 2 days, 21 hours, 59 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <sbalneav> it's the Brazillian LTSP channel here.
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| 09:51 | <ace_suares> well he seems to be far far away :-0
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| 09:51 | <Ryan52> I'll bet that if you ask the whole channel you might get an answer quicker...
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| 09:52 | :P
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| 09:52 | <ace_suares> seen whole_channel
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| 09:52 | <ltsplogbot> I don't know who whole_channel is.
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| 09:52 | <ace_suares> hmm
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| 09:52 | :-)
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| 09:52 | hi all!
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| 09:52 | anyone know what the status of local apps is ?
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| 09:53 | ogra has quit IRC | |
| 09:53 | <Ryan52> hehe. hi. I think they're fairly usable...haven't tried yet myself, tho.
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| 09:55 | <ace_suares> did ogra just walk out of the channel just by hearing 'local apss' mentioned :-)
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| 10:16 | <ace_suares> hi ogra long time no see
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| 10:16 | ogra how far is local apss, esp firefox running on the TC ?
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| 10:20 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> ace_suares: local apps work.
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| 10:20 | <ace_suares> CAN-o-SPAM_: cool!
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| 10:24 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> ace_saures: using Ubuntu?
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| 10:24 | <ace_suares> CAN-o-SPAM_: yes
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| 10:26 | <Gadi> ace_suares: best if you use stgraber's ppa
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| 10:26 | for the newest upstream
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| 10:26 | we have done a lot of work on local apps since intrepid's release
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| 10:27 | and stgraber has been maintaining intrepid pkgs whilst making jaunty ones
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| 10:27 | <ace_suares> Hey Gadi, thx for the info
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| 10:27 | so probably in a couple of months local apps will rock
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| 10:27 | that is great news
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| 10:27 | <Gadi> well, it aready rocks pretty nicely
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| 10:27 | :)
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| 10:27 | <ace_suares> even better
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| 10:27 | <Gadi> for most apps
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| 10:27 | and is transparent to the user
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| 10:27 | which is nice
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| 10:28 | <vagrantc> that reminds me ... localapps assumes the same locale that LDM is using, not the selected locale
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| 10:28 | <ace_suares> it just needs to work for FF and ugh Flash ... for the schools here.
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| 10:28 | <Gadi> ace_suares: I think those are the first apps anyone tests ;)
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| 10:28 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> heh
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| 10:29 | <Gadi> CAN-o-SPAM_: I read ur blog the other day - you're a very good blogger
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| 10:29 | <ace_suares> if they *ever* going to switch, see article on opensourcecuracao.com where the dutch govt refuses to pay for MS office licenses for our schools - interesting.
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| 10:29 | <Gadi> :)
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| 10:29 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> Gadi: how did you find it out of curiosity? it's actually help me find other people who blog and believe it or not, i'm not the only one blogging about LTSP
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| 10:29 | *aside from warren & scotty
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| 10:30 | <Gadi> I think I was bored and started poking around linkedin
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| 10:30 | <ace_suares> hm can-o-spam in google doenst bring me to your blog... url ?
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| 10:31 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> ace_suares: http://alexcolcernian.wordpress.com
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| 10:31 | did google release Chrome for Linux? If so has anyone tried it w/ LTSP?
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| 10:32 | Gadi: i sent you an e-mail a couple minutes ago, and there is a good link in there you'll want to check out
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| 10:39 | <Gadi> CAN-o-SPAM_: thx - yeah Lew already told me about that yesterday
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| 10:39 | he's already trying to leverage it
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| 10:39 | :)
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| 10:40 | has anyone here done any xperf11 testing on their thin clients?
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| 10:40 | *x11perf
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| 10:40 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> i have?
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| 10:41 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i think i ran it once when you mentioned it
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| 10:41 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> Gadi: i think we'll have to bring some Kensington security locks into the picture, haha
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| 10:42 | <Gadi> vagrantc: as in once right now?
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| 10:42 | <vagrantc> Gadi: no, a good long while ago.
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| 10:46 | <Gadi> ah
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| 10:46 | hehe
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| 10:46 | * Gadi has been testing putimage a bit | |
| 10:46 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> Gadi: what are you wondering about xperf
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| 10:47 | * Gadi tries to put on his engineering hat and get real performance metrics | |
| 10:47 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> mhmm i c
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| 10:47 | <Gadi> xperf11 -putimagexy50
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| 10:47 | for example
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| 10:47 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> whats putimage?
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| 10:47 | besides the obvious
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| 10:47 | <Gadi> will give much different results when run locally or over the network or thru a proxy, etc
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| 10:48 | x11perf has a million tests
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| 10:48 | for different x11 operations
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| 10:48 | putimage, I believe, tests just the speed at which the Xserver can put an image on the screen
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| 10:49 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> hence correlation with java/flash/etc...
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| 10:49 | <Gadi> sorta
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| 10:49 | in many respects, ldm sessions, even with DIRECTX can be slow
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| 10:50 | especially compared to non-X11 protocols
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| 10:50 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> hmm ill mention to etyack, i know we run x11perf on any workstation that needs more than the standard testing
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| 10:50 | <Gadi> I have been curious of late as to where the increased heaviness is introduced
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| 10:50 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> right
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| 10:50 | <Gadi> whether it is gtk, gnome, switches, etc
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| 10:51 | we all know X is "chatty"
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| 10:51 | but the "assumptions" we make about why things are slow
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| 10:51 | <vagrantc> Gadi: how does LDM_DIRECTX compare with connections started through XDMCP ?
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| 10:51 | <Gadi> tend to not help in engineering something faster
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| 10:52 | vagrantc: good one - from what I have seen (havent tested in a while) XDMCP may feel faster
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| 10:52 | one issue could be the ssh connection
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| 10:52 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> i agree with the word "assumptions"
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| 10:52 | <Gadi> even though the video does not get tunneled,
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| 10:52 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> what does that would make ssh a potential culprit?
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| 10:53 | <Gadi> cant rule him out
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| 10:53 | :)
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| 10:53 | remember, the session is still a child of sshd
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| 10:54 | so, it still plays a role
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| 10:54 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> i thought you might have a little more for me there'
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| 10:54 | <Gadi> :)
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| 10:54 | I could use more people testing more things
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| 10:54 | to weed out the real culprit
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| 10:55 | for example,
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| 10:55 | for one user in the office here,
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| 10:55 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> i wonder if all this cloud/virtualization and such will fuel changes in SSH?
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| 10:55 | <Gadi> I turned metacity to "reduced resources"
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| 10:55 | that makes window movements wireframe, decreased animations, etc
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| 10:55 | * vagrantc usually tests with icewm | |
| 10:56 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> aand ...
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| 10:56 | <Gadi> doesnt seem to help much with the way things feel
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| 10:56 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> i'm thinking this isn't a one-piece puzzle
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| 10:57 | <Gadi> its not
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| 10:57 | <alkisg> `ssh -Y localhost` and then `firefox` makes firefox needing 3-5 seconds to show the right-click menu.
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| 10:57 | <Gadi> but collecting data points really helps
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| 10:57 | <alkisg> There are a lot of things to investigate...
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| 10:58 | <Gadi> indeed
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| 10:59 | one curiosity: does x11perf -putimagexy50 perform comparably on all thin clients (be they crap ones or awesome ones hardware wise)
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| 11:00 | <alkisg> I imagine we can find some thin clients performing 100 times faster than others..
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| 11:00 | <Gadi> we should probably come up with some tests that folks can do, put them on a wiki, and ask people to contribute results
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| 11:00 | alkisg: maybe
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| 11:01 | or, you may find that they are all the same
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| 11:01 | which would tell you something about where your bottlenecks are
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| 11:01 | problem is, we need to stop assuming and do real testing
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| 11:02 | <alkisg> Nah, if my experience in programming a lot of putimage versions in assembly 15 years ago means anything, I think we'll even find greater differences
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| 11:02 | <alkisg> OK, Gadi you find the benchmarks, we contribute results :)
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| 11:02 | <Gadi> :)
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| 11:02 | * Gadi adds to his homework | |
| 11:11 | <alkisg> Gadi: it would be useful to also include a small cpu benchmark and a small network speed benchmark, to normalize the results.
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| 11:12 | <vagrantc> would be good to write some scripts for this sort of thing
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| 11:14 | could write is as a session type, so you wouldn't be running extra cruft ... and an ldm rc.d hook to export some variables so the server-side scripts could log some client-side information...
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| 11:15 | although it would be useful to run with extra cruft, too
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| 11:50 | * vagrantc wonders what configuration is needed to get xrdp working | |
| 11:54 | <vagrantc> i installed it, set SCREEN_07=rdesktop ... but i just get an X cursor and then X dies and restarts
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| 11:55 | ah, looks like there is no default for RDP_SERVER ?
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| 12:00 | <nubae> @g search xrdp
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| 12:00 | wima has quit IRC | |
| 12:00 | <ltsplogbot> 17,700 Results | RPM Search xrdp-0.4.1-53.1.i586.rpm @ http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/4/idpl/11346523/com/xrdp-0.4.1-53.1.i586.rpm.html | RPM Search xrdp-0.4.1-70.1.x86_64.rpm @ http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/4/idpl/11346602/com/xrdp-0.4.1-70.1.x86_64.rpm.html | Debian -- Package Search Results -- x @ http://packages.debian.org/xrdp | SourceForge.net: xrdp-devel @
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| 12:00 | http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=xrdp-devel
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| 12:00 | <nubae> sorry, just making sure bot is up and running so its logging...
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| 12:02 | <Gadi> vagrantc: it never did make sense to have a default
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| 12:02 | most folks were not connecting to the Linux server with rdesktop
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| 12:02 | :)
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| 12:04 | <vagrantc> Gadi: all of the sudden it makes sense, at least to me :)
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| 12:04 | i got xrdp working
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| 12:04 | <vagrantc> though not totally consistantly...
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| 12:04 | <Gadi> what do you think?
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| 12:05 | <vagrantc> it logs in... what more is there?
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| 12:05 | about to test cyberorg's nomad patch
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| 12:07 | <Gadi> vagrantc: any performance difference?
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| 12:07 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i didn't really do any performance testing
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| 12:08 | i just wanted to make sure it logged in at all
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| 12:33 | <vagrantc> so, the most noteable thing about using this LDM_NOMAD patch seems to be session resuming
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| 12:34 | that i've been able to see
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| 12:34 | localapps doesn't work
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| 12:34 | localdevs do work
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| 12:34 | sound doesn't work
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| 12:35 | <Gadi> vagrantc: keep in mind xrdp != nomad
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| 12:36 | <vagrantc> Gadi: well, i know that ... but the effects i am able to observe using this
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| 12:36 | using LDM_NOMAD without an rdesktop/xrdp that supports nomad
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| 12:37 | patch works, though i'm still not sure on the ~/.ltspvars file ...
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| 12:38 | <Gadi> yeah, I was unsure about that one too
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| 12:38 | neat that session resume works
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| 12:39 | weird that local apps does not
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| 12:39 | <vagrantc> it's using Xvnc, so maybe that's messing with it somehow
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| 12:39 | <Gadi> sound prolly borks because it requires that .ltspvars thing
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| 12:39 | <vagrantc> right
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| 12:40 | <Gadi> I assume sound works if you set PULSE_SERVER
| |
| 12:40 | * vagrantc will test | |
| 12:40 | <Gadi> Xvnc must not be passing the Xatom
| |
| 12:41 | thats sad
| |
| 12:41 | <vagrantc> i suspect the resume would get into issues with setting variables if you log in from a different machine the second time
| |
| 12:42 | <Gadi> ah, actually its not Xvnc that is the issue, it is sending back RDP only
| |
| 12:42 | I think nomad's rdp has X11 extensions
| |
| 12:42 | so, it can pass the Xatoms on a separate rdp channel
| |
| 12:42 | <vagrantc> sound works when sourcing ~/.ltspvars ... though it was a bit choppier
| |
| 12:43 | <Gadi> choppier? weird
| |
| 12:43 | it should be a straight pulseaudio play at that point
| |
| 12:43 | markit has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:44 | <vagrantc> heh. sound continues to play with the session in the background.
| |
| 12:44 | i.e. after ctrl-alt-backspace
| |
| 12:44 | probably would mess with future connections
| |
| 12:44 | <Gadi> nice
| |
| 12:44 | :)
| |
| 12:45 | someone should suggest to them a kill -STOP when there are no connected viewers
| |
| 12:46 | etyack has quit IRC | |
| 12:46 | <vagrantc> well, there are some issues, but i think the patch is worth merging.
| |
| 12:46 | <Gadi> I would find out about the .ltspvars thing first
| |
| 12:46 | <vagrantc> maye those issues are resolved in a real nomad environment
| |
| 12:46 | <Gadi> especially since we just went to lengths to purge the code from writing to ~/
| |
| 12:46 | <vagrantc> i could merge without the .ltspvars
| |
| 12:47 | it would also probably require exporting the sound variables...
| |
| 12:48 | <Gadi> yeah - unfortunately, xrdp does not seem to support rdesktop's redirection capabilities
| |
| 12:48 | if it did, they wouldnt need these workarounds
| |
| 12:49 | kinda irks me when OSS tries to copy commercial software and doesnt
| |
| 12:49 | :)
| |
| 12:49 | its like the kids that can't trace a picture
| |
| 12:49 | <vagrantc> heh
| |
| 12:49 | <rjune> LOL
| |
| 12:49 | what is it you're worked up over?
| |
| 12:50 | <vagrantc> Gadi: do they refuse to, or simply haven't gotten around to it?
| |
| 12:50 | <Gadi> they refuse
| |
| 12:50 | <vagrantc> ah.
| |
| 12:50 | <Gadi> I forget the reasoning
| |
| 12:50 | but, I have seen it a couple of times
| |
| 12:50 | <vagrantc> that's stupid
| |
| 12:50 | <Gadi> another example is gnome and the different nautilus views
| |
| 12:51 | Windows explorer has like 5 or 6 views that people have become accustomed to
| |
| 12:51 | nautlius only recently adds one and it is this rather useless "compact"
| |
| 12:51 | they are obviously in a position to copy the work of others
| |
| 12:52 | clearly attempting to to a degree
| |
| 12:52 | and yet failing to be able to trace the damn picture
| |
| 12:52 | :)
| |
| 12:52 | maybe they have a good reason, maybe not
| |
| 12:54 | <vagrantc> hopefully it's not the "our users are too stupid to handle multiple views" argument
| |
| 12:54 | * Gadi shrugs | |
| 12:54 | <Gadi> I think the problem is that Linux developers dont use computers like normal people
| |
| 12:55 | I know, because I don't
| |
| 12:55 | but if you know you don't, you should be smart enough to listen to the complaints of those who do
| |
| 12:55 | <markit> little problem... I've chrooted in /opt/ltsp/i386/ and followed manual instrucionts, but since my "host" OS is 64 bit, and guest is 32, I've the feeling that things have mixed up and compromised
| |
| 12:55 | what would have been the syntax to update for my architecture?
| |
| 12:55 | <vagrantc> Gadi: right, like i wouldn't expect others to use tritium as a window manager.
| |
| 12:56 | and i would *never* recommend vim.
| |
| 12:56 | <markit> I got a : starting NBD client process: FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.26-1-amd64/modules.dep: No such file or directory
| |
| 12:56 | <Gadi> markit: sudo ltsp-update-image --arch=i386
| |
| 12:56 | vagrantc: exactly
| |
| 12:56 | <markit> Gadi: uh, ltsp manual tells about using chroot, and apt-get update / upgrade
| |
| 12:56 | <vagrantc> "works for me, but it might not work for you"
| |
| 12:56 | <markit> Gadi: is the latest manual outdated,or we are talking about different things?
| |
| 12:57 | <Gadi> markit: different things
| |
| 12:57 | when did you get the above error?
| |
| 12:57 | <markit> I mounted the /proc as described
| |
| 12:58 | but first I got error about impossibility about wrigint log (is /dev/pst mounted?)
| |
| 12:59 | then
| |
| 12:59 | Invoking swapoff on NBD devices...
| |
| 12:59 | Disconnecting ...
| |
| 12:59 | ERROR: Module nbd does not exist in /proc/modules
| |
| 12:59 | <Gadi> this was when you were in the chroot?
| |
| 12:59 | as in:
| |
| 12:59 | sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
| |
| 13:00 | <markit> exactly
| |
| 13:00 | well, I was already root
| |
| 13:01 | so I just # chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
| |
| 13:01 | then apt-get update
| |
| 13:01 | apt-get upgrade
| |
| 13:01 | and the problems above :)
| |
| 13:01 | <Gadi> ok, are you in the chroot now?
| |
| 13:02 | <vagrantc> export LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=false
| |
| 13:02 | before chrooting
| |
| 13:02 | or after, i guess.
| |
| 13:02 | <markit> Gadi: yes
| |
| 13:03 | <Gadi> do what vagrantc says
| |
| 13:03 | and apt-get update again
| |
| 13:03 | and apt-get upgrade
| |
| 13:03 | and before saying yes to the upgrade, paste the pkgs it plans to upgrade
| |
| 13:03 | <markit> no one
| |
| 13:03 | <Gadi> vagrantc: what code uses LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS?
| |
| 13:04 | markit: nothing needs upgrading?
| |
| 13:04 | <markit> no, after the previous upgrade
| |
| 13:04 | japerry has quit IRC | |
| 13:04 | <Gadi> ok
| |
| 13:04 | <markit> the problem is that previous upgrade only partially succeed
| |
| 13:04 | <Gadi> well, you may be all right
| |
| 13:04 | <vagrantc> Gadi: our start-stop-daemon wrapper
| |
| 13:04 | <markit> and I've the scaring 64bit kernel message
| |
| 13:05 | <vagrantc> Gadi: which prevents daemons from getting started in the chroot on the server
| |
| 13:05 | <Gadi> that message is most likely because some package was looking at your running kernel to determine how to upgrade
| |
| 13:05 | do this:
| |
| 13:05 | in the chroot:
| |
| 13:05 | dpkg -l|grep ^ii
| |
| 13:06 | oops
| |
| 13:06 | I mean:
| |
| 13:06 | etyack has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:06 | <Gadi> dpkg -l |grep -v ^ii
| |
| 13:06 | <markit> empty
| |
| 13:06 | <Gadi> good
| |
| 13:06 | all the packages are installed
| |
| 13:06 | try unmounting /proc
| |
| 13:06 | umount /proc
| |
| 13:07 | staffencasa has quit IRC | |
| 13:07 | <markit> inside chroot? proc device is busy
| |
| 13:07 | <Gadi> ok, do:
| |
| 13:07 | lsof /proc
| |
| 13:09 | <markit> http://rafb.net/p/3QJc6m20.html
| |
| 13:09 | <Gadi> that was inside the chroot, right?
| |
| 13:09 | <markit> right
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| 13:10 | <Gadi> try: /etc/init.d/acpid stop
| |
| 13:10 | (in the chroot)
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| 13:10 | staffencasa has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:10 | <markit> No such file or directory
| |
| 13:11 | btw, I've debian, where have to be lts.conf file?
| |
| 13:11 | I've it only in one place, the /opt/tsp/i386/etc
| |
| 13:11 | somewhere is told to have it also in tftp root dir
| |
| 13:11 | <Gadi> thats fine - for NFS
| |
| 13:11 | for NFS it can be there
| |
| 13:11 | <markit> how can I tell if is using nfs or the new way?
| |
| 13:12 | <Gadi> debian still uses NFS by default
| |
| 13:12 | so, unless you changed it
| |
| 13:12 | <markit> even if I'm using debian sid?
| |
| 13:12 | <Gadi> yup
| |
| 13:13 | <markit> ok :) let's try to reboot the client, in any case, I can erase and re-setup ltsp
| |
| 13:13 | is just a test environment
| |
| 13:13 | Gadi: I've seen that debian has updated ltsp-server package and I've installed it
| |
| 13:14 | <Gadi> ok
| |
| 13:14 | <markit> there is some command to enter to have it "working"
| |
| 13:14 | <Gadi> be careful when blowing away your chroot, as it sounds like you still have /proc mounted
| |
| 13:14 | alkisg has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:14 | <markit> good advice
| |
| 13:14 | I will reboot
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| 13:15 | <johnny> or just unmount /proc..
| |
| 13:15 | <Gadi> updating the ltsp-server won't have much effect on the client, unless you rerun ltsp-build-client
| |
| 13:15 | <johnny> no need to reboot..
| |
| 13:18 | <markit> Gadi: so for debian, do I have to ltsp-update-image --arch=i386 every time I change lts.conf?
| |
| 13:18 | <Gadi> no, debian by default is NFS
| |
| 13:18 | so you are changing the live filesystem
| |
| 13:18 | * markit scratches his head | |
| 13:19 | <Gadi> ltsp-update-image is a tool for updating an NBD image
| |
| 13:19 | <markit> from the manual, I've read that having NBD and lst.conf in /tftp boot is a plus since you don't have to rebuild image
| |
| 13:19 | <Gadi> debian, using NFS, does not require you to update an NBD image
| |
| 13:20 | <markit> from ltsp manual
| |
| 13:20 | By putting lts.conf in the TFTP area, this means you can make changes to the file immediately, and simply reboot the terminal, without recompiling the image.
| |
| 13:20 | so seems that is a feature of nbd, not of nfs
| |
| 13:20 | is listed as one of the advantages of ndb over nfs
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| 13:21 | <Gadi> markit: NBD's advantage over NFS is one of speed
| |
| 13:21 | but, one adv of NFS over NBD is that the chroot is "live" on the client
| |
| 13:21 | so any change you make to /opt/ltsp/i386 on dowwn are automatically reflected on the client
| |
| 13:21 | *down
| |
| 13:22 | <markit> Gadi: so documentation must be fixed
| |
| 13:22 | <Gadi> since NBD does not work that way, you put lts.conf in the tftp directory so you need not reroll the image when making changes to lts.conf
| |
| 13:22 | only when making changes to the chroot
| |
| 13:23 | * vagrantc is glad gadi can keep the rationale straigh for NBD vs. NFS ... | |
| 13:23 | <vagrantc> so many people make really bad advice to debian users
| |
| 13:24 | <Gadi> :)
| |
| 13:24 | <markit> 7.1 of the manual, I understood exactly the opposite of what you explained
| |
| 13:24 | is it wrong, or I misunderstood it?
| |
| 13:25 | <vagrantc> markit: URL for the manual?
| |
| 13:25 | <markit> vagrantc: from the topic about upstream documentation
| |
| 13:25 | http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.pdf
| |
| 13:25 | brb, I have to feed my children (5 minutes)
| |
| 13:26 | I will read what you write when back :)
| |
| 13:26 | <alkisg> Wow, 5 minutes only? You're fast... :)
| |
| 13:26 | (or your kids are hungry...)
| |
| 13:27 | <Gadi> lol
| |
| 13:27 | LTSP from the Ubuntu perspective
| |
| 13:27 | :D
| |
| 13:27 | <alkisg> Other distro users don't need manuals, they're experienced. :P :D
| |
| 13:27 | <Gadi> markit: it seems the upstream docs are, in places, Ubuntu docs
| |
| 13:28 | <vagrantc> markit: that should really say "some distros are using NBD" and "if you're using NBD, lts.conf is in the tftp dir" ... or something like that.
| |
| 13:29 | the ltsp upstream documentation was basically part of the edubuntu handbook, rewritten for ltsp upstream. though clearly there are some parts that need more updating.
| |
| 13:29 | <markit> alkisg: food just to be warmed, wife prepared it
| |
| 13:30 | vagrantc: in the manual is stated that there are differences in NFS and NDB, but seems that the "no rebuild" advantage is for NBD, not NFS
| |
| 13:30 | so being ubuntu or not, is wrong or not?
| |
| 13:30 | Gadi says is wrong
| |
| 13:30 | <vagrantc> markit: i don't get that
| |
| 13:31 | markit: 7.1 doesn't talk about the advantage of NBD vs. NFS, it talks about where lts.conf is placed.
| |
| 13:31 | <markit> I understood: NBD needs lts.conf in /tftp, and having it in /tftp means you don't have to rebuild
| |
| 13:31 | <vagrantc> markit: it's talking about not having to rebuild the image every time you modify lts.conf, which would be necessary with NBD if you didn't put lts.conf outside of the chroot.
| |
| 13:32 | <nubae> hmmm
| |
| 13:32 | <markit> and is NOT necessary for nfs? no need to put in /tftp too to have the same advantage?
| |
| 13:32 | (microwave has finished, brb)
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| 13:32 | <nubae> depends on if u want it to be hackable or fast loading
| |
| 13:32 | <vagrantc> markit: it's actually one of the main problems with NBD, is that you actually have to rebuild the image when you make changes to the chroot, and it works around that limitation for lts.conf by putting them in the tftp dir.
| |
| 13:33 | <johnny> but we still use lts.conf in the tftproot if nfs is used.. for consistancy..
| |
| 13:33 | <nubae> if u build once and dont touch again, use nbd, otherwiswe use nfs
| |
| 13:33 | <vagrantc> markit: for NFS systems, lts.conf lives in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf (on debian i386, at least).
| |
| 13:33 | johnny: do not.
| |
| 13:33 | johnny: debian's NFS implementation doesn't use tftp for lts.conf at all.
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| 13:34 | <nubae> other way round is true though
| |
| 13:34 | its in both locations for nbd
| |
| 13:34 | etyack has quit IRC | |
| 13:35 | etyack has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:35 | <ogra> vagrantc, you are aware that recent xorg doesnt support ctrl-alt-bkspc anymore ?
| |
| 13:36 | <Gadi> really?
| |
| 13:36 | <vagrantc> ogra: nope
| |
| 13:36 | <ogra> yep
| |
| 13:36 | <Gadi> how recent?
| |
| 13:36 | <ogra> upstream dropped it completely
| |
| 13:36 | * vagrantc believes ogra | |
| 13:36 | * Gadi believes him too | |
| 13:36 | <johnny> for ubutnu, fedora, and gentoo. .we do
| |
| 13:36 | <ogra> ubuntu patched it back in but laves it off by default
| |
| 13:36 | * Gadi always believed in ogra | |
| 13:37 | <johnny> vagrantc, you're the odd one out :)
| |
| 13:37 | <rjune> *sigh*
| |
| 13:37 | why? I loved ctrl-alt-bkspc
| |
| 13:37 | <ogra> you need to manually enable it via a comdline tool, we should take that into account in jaunty <-- stgraber
| |
| 13:37 | <rjune> it was better then ctrl-alt-del
| |
| 13:37 | <vagrantc> johnny: perhaps.
| |
| 13:37 | <ogra> johnny, he just lives a bit behind the times :P
| |
| 13:38 | at least in ubutu its not completely gone ...
| |
| 13:38 | * vagrantc doesn't see any reason to maintain it in tftp other than having to support hacks that vagrantc never liked in the first place | |
| 13:38 | <ogra> but needs extra feature support and an lts.conf option i guess
| |
| 13:40 | <johnny> vagrantc, consistancy is worth it tho
| |
| 13:40 | * ogra notices that he stepped into an ongoing conversation ... sorry for interrupting, i just read vagrantc's mail about nomad | |
| 13:40 | <johnny> it's ok ogra, we still love ya
| |
| 13:40 | <ogra> phew
| |
| 13:40 | <Gadi> and believe in you
| |
| 13:40 | <ogra> i was worried already :)
| |
| 13:41 | <Gadi> like the fairies that roam the Black Forest
| |
| 13:41 | <ogra> haha
| |
| 13:42 | cdealer has left #ltsp | |
| 13:42 | <rjune> I thought the fairies roamed san francisco
| |
| 13:43 | <ogra> these are imported ones
| |
| 13:47 | <Gadi> no room to roam san francisco
| |
| 13:47 | the best you can get is a prance
| |
| 13:52 | bobby_C has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:52 | * Lns wonders why, then, Ubuntu had its last summit in SF ;) | |
| 13:53 | <ogra> someone had to import the fairies ...
| |
| 13:53 | * CAN-o-SPAM_ wonders what the correlation between LTSP and fairies is | |
| 13:53 | <Lns> maybe the new ltsp logo should be tinkerbell?
| |
| 13:54 | <cliebow> or andre the giant
| |
| 13:54 | <Lns> wow, that's the exact opposite...
| |
| 13:54 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> better get ur designs goin i think we got about 10 submissions yesterday
| |
| 13:54 | <ogra> CAN-o-SPAM_, you never opened the cases of you TC eh ?
| |
| 13:54 | <cliebow> but shade in the summer
| |
| 13:54 | <ogra> lots of fairies locked in the black thingies that are soldered on the board ...
| |
| 13:54 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> ogra: hm? oh ya ... i try not to, pixie dust all over
| |
| 13:55 | <ogra> you can see them coming out with magic smoke if you shorten the contacts
| |
| 13:55 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> ogra: what i would really like is to say that Ubuntu certifies my pixie dust and fairies
| |
| 13:55 | <Lns> CAN-o-SPAM_: /me likes the one Joshua Higgins Submitted: 1/13/09
| |
| 13:56 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> Lns: theres more to post check later today or tomorrow
| |
| 13:56 | <ogra> CAN-o-SPAM_, well, i'm forwarding your request constantly ....
| |
| 13:56 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> what do u think the hold up is?
| |
| 13:56 | <ogra> no idea
| |
| 13:56 | they tell me they will contact you
| |
| 13:56 | each time :/
| |
| 13:57 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> you might appreciate this story: i contacted Novell the other day, 3 operators for the whole company, none of them knew what SuSE Enterprise was
| |
| 13:57 | <ogra> haha
| |
| 13:57 | * CAN-o-SPAM_ was severly puzzled by this | |
| 13:57 | <Lns> "You mean Microsoft Linux v1.0?"
| |
| 13:57 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> ya, i think its called Licrosoft
| |
| 13:58 | <Lns> balmmix
| |
| 13:58 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> you lost me on that one
| |
| 13:58 | <Lns> CAN-o-SPAM_: steve ballmer
| |
| 13:58 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> ah
| |
| 13:58 | <Lns> err...balmmer? whatever. LinChair
| |
| 13:59 | <vagrantc> johnny: LTSP is the odd one out if you want consistancy, i'm using initramfs-tools's NFS support out of the box.
| |
| 14:01 | <markit> ok, thanks a lot, I reboot, rebuild ltsp from scratch, and experiment a little further
| |
| 14:01 | see you later, for new problems that will come ;)
| |
| 14:02 | markit has quit IRC | |
| 14:04 | <vagrantc> also, anyone familiar with anthroposophy can tell you it's not faeries trapped in computers, but gnomes.
| |
| 14:05 | <johnny> also bugs..
| |
| 14:06 | <epsas> hmm
| |
| 14:17 | <alkisg> nubae: Δοκιμή
| |
| 14:17 | <rjune> CAN-o-SPAM_, when's the contest end?
| |
| 14:18 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> rjune: Feb 27th
| |
| 14:18 | <rjune> thanks
| |
| 14:19 | etyack has quit IRC | |
| 14:20 | laserdrill has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:21 | <rjune> ugh, funky make problem.
| |
| 14:22 | if I do make once. it does a few things then fails, no rule to build sys.o
| |
| 14:22 | if I do make again, it builds sys.o and continues on
| |
| 14:23 | <Lns> CAN-o-SPAM_: Can I submit this as a logo? http://logicalnetworking.net/other/ballmerchairthrow.jpg
| |
| 14:24 | (I'm thinking not)
| |
| 14:26 | <rjune> LOL
| |
| 14:27 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> hah
| |
| 14:27 | does it fit the rules?
| |
| 14:27 | <Lns> no
| |
| 14:28 | but, you know, it sure does speak the truth!
| |
| 14:28 | I think that's enough for a win
| |
| 14:29 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> youve got my voye
| |
| 14:30 | <laserdrill> Hi all. I am running LTSP5 Ubuntu 8.04, AMD X2 64 with 1GB RAM and 2 thin clients. I am attempting to connect to the LTS from another ubuntu workstation using the terminal server client "tsclient". I starts up ok and gives me the desktop. However, whenerver I load an application (OOO writer for example) it terminates and attempts to restart. It does this every single time as soon as I start an app. This is part of the message it gives: X error of failed
| |
| 14:30 | or Window parameter) Major opcode of failed request: 70(X_PolyFillRectangle).... Has anyone had this kind of problem before? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
| |
| 14:31 | Johnny, how are you?
| |
| 14:32 | <johnny> busy
| |
| 14:33 | <laserdrill> johnny: ok, I know the feeling
| |
| 14:34 | johnny: as you might notice, I am having a few challenges with my Terminals Server. Keeps me up at nights.
| |
| 14:48 | spectra has quit IRC | |
| 14:52 | cliebow has quit IRC | |
| 14:56 | <Gadi> laserdrill: is that a VNC connection you're making?
| |
| 14:58 | <laserdrill> Gadi: no, its a terminal server client via xnest
| |
| 15:00 | <johnny> don't use xnest
| |
| 15:00 | etyack has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:00 | <johnny> if you want a real terminal server client use vmware or virtualbox
| |
| 15:00 | <Gadi> but what proptocol is it using?
| |
| 15:00 | is it connecting thru XDMCP?
| |
| 15:00 | VNC?
| |
| 15:00 | RDP?
| |
| 15:00 | <laserdrill> Gadi: I connect using "tsclient" and selecting XDMCP as the protocol. This works when xnest is installed
| |
| 15:01 | <Gadi> ah, ok
| |
| 15:01 | that's important
| |
| 15:01 | <laserdrill> Gadi: Ok
| |
| 15:01 | <Gadi> where do you get that error?
| |
| 15:01 | is it in the session?
| |
| 15:02 | <laserdrill> Gadi: on the workstation desktop after the terminal session crashes.
| |
| 15:02 | <Gadi> definitely sounds like an Xnest limitation
| |
| 15:04 | <laserdrill> Gadi: it probably is, but I have used it before on a Fedora Core LTS (K12LTSP I think) with no problems a few years ago. Can't figure what improvment might have caused this.
| |
| 15:04 | <johnny> lots of things
| |
| 15:05 | i'd suggest xephyr over xnest
| |
| 15:05 | xephyr supports damage, unlike xnest
| |
| 15:05 | <laserdrill> johnny: Thanks. Would I uninstall xnest then install xephyr?
| |
| 15:05 | <johnny> but ultimately.. the only real way test your clients and have all the features working is to use vmware
| |
| 15:06 | or virtualbox
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| 15:06 | you will get the most similiar results that way
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| 15:06 | <johnny> laserdrill, depends on if tsclient needs to be changed.. it might not already know how to spawn xephyr
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| 15:06 | you'll have to look
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| 15:06 | you shouldn't have to uninstall xnest in any case tho
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| 15:07 | <laserdrill> johnny: I use virtualbox (mainly for playing with Windows and Solaris) and it works will. The thin clients also work well on the LTS, but my regular workstations can't run the LTS desktop, which would help a lot as we do some training here
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| 15:08 | Johnny:Ok, will try to install xephyr on the workstation now
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| 15:08 | <johnny> i doubt it will just work tho
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| 15:10 | <laserdrill> johnny: I was afraid you'd say that !
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| 15:12 | johnny: here is what I am trying to do. I am trying to allow a person whose home directory is on the terminal server to log into the LTS and get a full desktop, while running other apps on the workstation.
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| 15:12 | <johnny> vbox is best for that
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| 15:13 | <laserdrill> This seemed to be the "perfect" solution. Indidentally, I cannot understand how Linux has such good support for connecting to Windows Terminal Servers but not linux Terminal Servers.
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| 15:14 | <laserdrill> johnny: you mean boot vbox from the LTS? I tried it and got an error but never paid much attention to it as I was more interested in doing this. Let me try that again.
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| 15:17 | johnny: This is what I get: PXE -E53: no boot filename received ... Then it leaves pxe boot and boots the os
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| 15:18 | Is there a better way to do this?
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| 15:21 | <alkisg> laserdrill: NAT or host networking?
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| 15:21 | <vagrantc> laserdrill: you'll have to configure networking so that vbox can see your real DHCP server ... you're probably using NAT
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| 15:22 | <johnny> i think the new virtualbox can do it
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> (NAT can also work, just needs more tinkering...)
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| 15:22 | <johnny> 2.1.0
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> johnny: with nat? even the older ones could do it..
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| 15:22 | <laserdrill> alkisg / Johnny/ vagrantc: yes, Vbox is set to NAT
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| 15:23 | <johnny> you don't have to mention my name every time
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| 15:23 | in fact.. please don't
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| 15:23 | <laserdrill> johnny: yes, 2.1.0
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| 15:23 | <alkisg> laserdrill: the easier way, like vagrantc said, is to use host networking. If you insist on NAT, you'll have to make a few adjustments
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| 15:24 | <laserdrill> I don't might changing the network setting. Thanks for the info
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> i.e. create a TFTP directory under .Virtualbox, put an hostname.pxe file there, link to /var/lib/tftpboot etc
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| 15:24 | <laserdrill> I'll try it right now
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| 15:25 | i'll try changing the network setting first
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| 15:26 | I developed the habit of using the name from chat rooms where there is a lot of conversing on different subjects. Its usually the only way for users to keep their sanity.
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| 15:28 | <johnny> but it is stealing mine :)
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| 15:29 | * vagrantc waits to see johnny crack under pressure | |
| 15:29 | * johnny pulls lightly on vagrantc's hair | |
| 15:29 | <vagrantc> hmm... so after finally testing this nomad patch stuff, i've still got mixed feelings over it
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| 15:30 | * vagrantc tosses johnny with a hip-throw | |
| 15:30 | <johnny> you're mean
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| 15:30 | <vagrantc> do onto others...
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| 15:30 | * vagrantc likes being thrown | |
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| 15:41 | <laserdrill> Thanks guys. Vxbox seems to have worked. Took a log time to boot but seems to work fine.
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| 16:28 | <sepski> how would i debug login issues ? lenny server. client boots and i get ldmno matter what session i try it just restarts ldm
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| 16:36 | <vagrantc> sepski: look at the user's ~/.xsession file
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| 16:36 | sepski: er, ~/.xession-errors
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| 16:37 | sepski: and /var/log/ldm.log on the thin client
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| 16:37 | sepski: also, what versions?
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| 16:37 | !ver
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| 16:37 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "ver" is to get version info on debian/ubuntu (please use the pastebot): COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l 'ltsp*' | awk '/^ii/{print $2}/^ii/{print $3}' ; COLUMNS=200 dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l 'ltsp*' ldm | awk '/^ii/{print $2}/^ii/{print $3}'
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| 16:38 | <vagrantc> sepski: also check /var/log/auth.log on the server ...
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| 16:44 | <sepski> vagrantc, whatever is in lennyt
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| 16:45 | <vagrantc> sepski: well, i get that all the time only to find out it wasn't true :)
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| 16:45 | <PerlStalker> Can someone point me at docs that show how to tell a LTSP thin client to look at different server for nbdroot?
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| 16:45 | <vagrantc> sepski: so i do like to be sure.
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| 16:47 | <sepski> there is no .xsession file for the user.
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| 16:47 | <vagrantc> sepski: i meant ~/.xsession-errors, sorry
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| 16:48 | <johnny> PerlStalker iirc, nbdroot=server:port on the pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 16:48 | <PerlStalker> Shiny. Thanks
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| 16:51 | <sepski> ii ltsp-server /client and client-core is 5.1.10-2
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| 16:58 | .xsession-errors is all about can't open display ''
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| 17:20 | <vagrantc> sepski: what's in your lts.conf ? /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf ?
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| 17:20 | !pastebot
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| 17:20 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 17:23 | <ltsppbot> Someone pasted "# This is the default lts.conf" (11 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/248
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| 17:23 | <sepski> http://pastebot.ltsp.org/248
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| 17:23 | the default + the server line
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| 17:26 | <sepski> umm :s sshd_config had X11Forwarding no
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| 17:30 | <vagrantc> sepski: that's unusual...
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| 17:30 | <vagrantc> sepski: that's been the default since etch for sure ...
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| 17:30 | i mean X11Forwarding yes
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| 17:32 | <vagrantc> sepski: make sure /etc/X11/Xsession exists and is executable
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| 17:33 | <sepski> it does.
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| 17:33 | i just rebooted the client and now the kde into wizard started
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| 17:34 | enabled X11Forward in ssh
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| 17:36 | <vagrantc> sepski: defaulting to "X11Forwarding yes" has been default since septermber 2005
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| 17:37 | <sepski> vagrantc, this server started as a potato..
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| 17:37 | :)
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| 17:37 | <vagrantc> heh. that'll do it, then.
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| 17:37 | <sepski> a tad laggy tho.
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| 17:39 | <talntid> Does anyone here have a good way to monitor all the thin clients on a network, using VNC?
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| 17:39 | i'v got VNC installed on all the thin clients, but havn't found a program that allows me to view them all at once in a preview...
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| 17:39 | <sepski> it's about 35km away, using gigabit fiberoptics 1 single client
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| 17:40 | <vagrantc> well, at 35km, that it works at all is pretty impressive :)
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| 17:40 | <sepski> load of 10 with famd on top :s
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| 17:41 | i placed my home server at the computer room at work. it was too noisy :)
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| 17:41 | perhaps i remove all computers at home and only use thin clients now
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| 17:42 | <talntid> are the thin clients remoted into the server at work?
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| 17:42 | <sepski> the thin client boot from my own server that just happens to be freeloading at the "datacenter" at work
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| 17:43 | <talntid> right.
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| 17:43 | how is that working? How is it getting its boot image?
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| 17:43 | you don't have to answer me obviously.. purely voluntary.
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| 17:43 | <sepski> it's also my dhcp server :)
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| 17:43 | regular tftp
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| 17:44 | <talntid> i have a LTSP server here at my office... and 15 miles away, I have my house... if I can put a thin client at my house that would rock.
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| 17:44 | <sepski> my home lan streches down to the datacenter via a vlan
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| 17:44 | <jammcq> sepski: are the thin clients also at work? or are they on the other end of the 35km ?
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| 17:44 | <sepski> thin client is here at home. server is at work 35km away but it's the same subnet.
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| 17:44 | it's my home server, it's just not at home
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| 17:44 | <talntid> hmm... yeah
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| 17:44 | <sepski> vlan down to work
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| 17:44 | <talntid> i want to try that. :P
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| 17:45 | i have VPN pppoe to my work
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| 17:45 | <vagrantc> sepski: do you have to set up a DHCP proxy or some such?
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| 17:45 | <sepski> vagrantc, pure layer 2 ethernet the whole way
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| 17:45 | a vlan
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| 17:46 | but it does work with dhcp proxy as well tho. i have tested that in a earlier setup
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| 17:46 | <vagrantc> nice
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| 17:47 | <talntid> hmm, i'm going to have to try that.
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| 17:49 | <sepski_> turned off that old computer.. what a relief.
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| 17:49 | guess i should replacesome fans
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| 17:49 | and boot it using gpxe and iscsi
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| 17:51 | <sepski> ;'
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| 17:53 | <vagrantc> well, i finally got around to testing the ltspfs local mount stuff ... and basically it behaves very badly with cdroms ... it doesn't register the locally mounted cdrom removal from the thin-client, but does register the removal on the ltsp server. upon insertion, it doesn't register in either location.
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| 17:53 | <sepski> any tricks to lower the latency ? i have more then enough bandwith
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| 17:55 | <vagrantc> correction, the server-side cd mount does eventually register, but it seems to take longer than usual.
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| 18:01 | <sepski> not so sure this is working good enough. to be usable. the lag is quite noticeable at times.
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| 18:08 | <sepski> must be something with my TK, server can ping my printer, and dreambox in >0 ms, but pinging the TK is often 30 or 40 ish ms
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