IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 29 June 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:59 | <tarzeau> good morning
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| 01:59 | how can i set SendCoreEvents options to false in the mouse settings with lts.conf ?
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| 04:00 | <markit> hi, I've ltsp5 and I connect with rdesktop to win2003. rdesktop -f -k it 192.168.1.2 -r disk:usb=/mnt/usbdevice. The problem is that the client mounts correctly usb pendrive, I see a sort of "shared usb device" in COmputer Resources, but I can't see usb content, nor write to it. Any clue?
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| 04:15 | <markit> is LOCAL_STORAGE = Y needed?
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| 04:18 | <alkisg> markit: LOCAL_STORAGE is deprecated, the new directive is LOCALDEV, and it defaults to True. So no, it isn't needed.
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| 04:18 | <markit> sigh :(
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| 04:19 | can't find anything useful with google
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| 04:19 | it should "just work", but it does not
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| 04:19 | alkisg: do you have any experience to this regard?
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| 04:20 | <alkisg> markit: it's been a long time since I used rdesktop, I don't remember the details
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| 04:21 | <alkisg> markit: have a look at the logs, googling for: rdesktop usb stick site:nubae.com
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| 04:21 | <markit> teh problem could be about permission, but how can I know what user is ltsp considering, since I don't login in ltsp?
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| 04:23 | <alkisg> markit: I think Gadi says some things here, it this log: http://www.nubae.com/logs/archived/ltsp.log.01Nov2007
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| 04:23 | <markit> thin client logs seem ok, I've following this guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev and I see the device recognized
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| 04:23 | <alkisg> E.g. <Gadi> SCREEN_02 = "rdesktop -a 16 -k fr -f -d GLOBAL -r sound:local -r disk:USB=/tmp/drives -r disk:drives=/Drives"
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| 04:24 | If you don't find your way from the logs, then try to come back again later, the devs usually hang out here later on
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| 04:25 | <markit> alkisg: thanks, problem is also that many doc I find is outdated, so I get more and more confused
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| 06:50 | <BCM43> Has anybody used imacs as terminals?
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| 07:03 | <markit> btw, /mnt is read only... so I wonder how -r disk:usb=/mnt/usbdevice could work
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| 07:03 | no one with a clue about usb pen and ltsp with rdesktop?
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| 07:03 | I'm trying to change in /tmp/usbdevice now, but don't know how things are handled
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| 07:05 | <BCM43> markit: does not seem like a very busy channel. Or is it simply too early in the morning?
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| 07:06 | <markit> no idea, sorry
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| 07:07 | but is really silent... probabli later will be better
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| 07:08 | <l0C0> has anyone here used gpxe with LTSP?
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| 07:12 | <tarzeau> 05:09 < tarzeau> how can i set SendCoreEvents options to false in the mouse settings with lts.conf ?
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| 07:15 | <_UsUrPeR_> test
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| 07:20 | <alkisg> l0C0: I've been using gPXE extensively with LTSP...
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| 07:20 | <l0C0> alkisg: fantastic, maybe you can help me
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| 07:20 | <alkisg> I can try... what's your problem?
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| 07:20 | * _UsUrPeR_ emerges from the ether | |
| 07:20 | <l0C0> in a gpxe script, I download the kernel and initrd from a webserver
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| 07:21 | <_UsUrPeR_> good morning all!
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| 07:21 | <l0C0> and then I boot, but it only boots into a basic shell
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| 07:21 | I presume there's something that I'm missing
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| 07:22 | <_UsUrPeR_> l0C0: seems like X windows is crashing. What Client and Operating system are you running?
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| 07:22 | <l0C0> it's Ubuntu
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| 07:22 | <alkisg> l0C0: after the kernel is booted, a program named ipconfig tries to get an ip for the os to boot. That ip is different from the pxe one.
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| 07:22 | <l0C0> ah right
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| 07:22 | <alkisg> l0C0: so, do you have a dhcp server around that can point your client to the correct server?
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| 07:23 | <l0C0> I don't, I don't have access to the DHCP server, which is the reason I need gPXE
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| 07:24 | <alkisg> l0C0: then try putting "IPAPPEND 3" in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default to make it keep the pxe-stage IP.
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| 07:24 | l0C0: detailed instructions here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP#Adjusting%20pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 07:25 | <l0C0> then will I have to do something to get that into the vmlinuz kernel image
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| 07:25 | ?
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| 07:25 | <alkisg> No no
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| 07:26 | It goes like this: gpxe => pxelinux => kernel
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| 07:26 | <l0C0> ah right
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| 07:26 | <alkisg> But pxelinux reads this file, and appends the IP as a kernel parameter
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| 07:26 | <alkisg> So you don't have to modify anything other than this pxelinux.cfg/default configuration file
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| 07:26 | <l0C0> I've just been attempting to grab the kernel, and then the initrd, bypassing the pxelinux
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| 07:26 | <alkisg> Ah
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| 07:26 | <alkisg> There's another way, then
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| 07:27 | <l0C0> so instead of doing: kernel http://....
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| 07:27 | initrd http://....
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| 07:27 | <alkisg> You can put the kernel parameter yourself in the vmlinuz command line
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| 07:27 | <l0C0> ah right
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| 07:27 | <ogra_> neither will work if rootserver isnt coming from dhcp
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| 07:27 | <alkisg> No no keep your script, let me tell you what you need to add
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| 07:27 | ogra_, why not? I've been using that with no problems
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| 07:28 | <ogra_> you likely need to point to the right nbd server
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| 07:28 | <alkisg> OK let me tell him the parameter first...
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| 07:28 | <ogra_> dnsmasq forwards rootserver, no ?
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| 07:28 | <alkisg> No need for a dhcp server with gpxe
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| 07:29 | * alkisg is looking for the ip=x:x:x: parameter.. | |
| 07:29 | <l0C0> hehe
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| 07:29 | <ogra_> right, but the client needs the right info, eles you end up at busybox
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| 07:29 | <alkisg> it gets the rootserver from the ip parameter
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| 07:29 | <ogra_> ah
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| 07:30 | <l0C0> would it be better going through the pxelinux.0 image if I want to do load-balancing?
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| 07:30 | <alkisg> l0C0: http://codtech.com/wiki/index.php/Ipconfig#interface_spec_long_form
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| 07:30 | ip=<client-ip>:<server-ip>:<gw-ip>:<netmask>:<hostname>:<device>:<autoconf>
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| 07:30 | <l0C0> where do I put that?
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| 07:30 | <alkisg> So you'd have to put: kernel vmlinuz ip=192.168.0.13:192.168.0.10:192.168.0.1:255.255.255.0:client13:eth0:none
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| 07:31 | <l0C0> ah great
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| 07:31 | <alkisg> l0C0: are all your clients going to use gpxe?
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| 07:31 | ogra_, the server-ip is what ipconfig gets as the rootserver
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| 07:31 | <l0C0> yes
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| 07:31 | remote clients will be using nz
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| 07:32 | nx even
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| 07:32 | currently I have a thinstation + nx setup, but it's far from ideal
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| 07:32 | <ogra_> right, i guessed that much, as long as it ends up as ROOTSERVER in initramfs that will work
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| 07:32 | thats the var name ltsp_nbd uses
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| 07:32 | <alkisg> l0C0: yes, pxelinux allows for a little customization without scripting
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| 07:33 | <l0C0> if I was to go about using pxelinux.0, how would I do it?
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| 07:33 | <alkisg> kernel pxelinux.0
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| 07:33 | and IPAPPEND 3 in pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 07:33 | <l0C0> I tried that, but doesn't it need to download the pxelinux.cfg/ directory at some point?
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| 07:34 | (I'm using http not tftp)
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| 07:34 | <alkisg> That's gpxelinux.0 for you then :)
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| 07:35 | ...and you'll also lose getting lts.conf - it doesn't support http
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| 07:35 | So you'll have to put it to the chroot if you need to change it
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| 07:35 | <l0C0> ah, how do I make that (I just generated the image in ubuntu)
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| 07:36 | <alkisg> I haven't used gpxelinux. I think it's still in beta, but it works. I guess you'd have to download it from its site. Ask at #etherboot, its developer (hpa) hangs there
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| 07:37 | <l0C0> yeah, it's been quiet today in there :/
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| 07:38 | <alkisg> Heh. I guess it's still early for some timezones
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| 07:38 | <l0C0> yeah
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| 07:38 | <alkisg> Try the kernel ip parameter first, and when you succeed you can look at gpxelinux.0...
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| 07:39 | <l0C0> am doing :)
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| 07:39 | <xBowser> Seems I am becoming a regular visitor here.
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| 07:40 | <l0C0> what shall I put for autoconf?
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| 07:40 | <alkisg> none
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| 07:41 | (03:30:43 μμ) alkisg: So you'd have to put: kernel vmlinuz ip=192.168.0.13:192.168.0.10:192.168.0.1:255.255.255.0:client13:eth0:none
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| 07:42 | <l0C0> eth0 not net0?
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| 07:43 | <alkisg> eth, the kernel is loaded. net is for gpxe :)
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| 07:43 | <l0C0> ah right
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| 07:44 | oh of course, these are kernel parameters
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| 07:44 | <xBowser> Does anybody else have the problem of processes not terminating after users logout?
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| 07:44 | <l0C0> and root=100?
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| 07:44 | <alkisg> Hm? what's that?
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| 07:45 | <l0C0> it asked to define the root parameter at some point
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| 07:45 | <alkisg> I don't know. Try without it for starters.
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| 07:45 | <l0C0> ok
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| 07:55 | <l0C0> ah ok, now it's having problems connecting to the server
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| 07:56 | <alkisg> port forwarding, firewalls etc...
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| 07:56 | Ah, you mean while logging on?
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| 07:56 | <l0C0> while booting
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| 07:56 | apart from port 22, what else does it need?
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| 07:57 | <alkisg> I think nbd is in 9572
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| 07:58 | <ogra> no
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| 07:58 | 2000
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| 07:58 | <alkisg> Ah yes 9572 is the nbd swap
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| 07:58 | <ogra> right
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| 07:58 | <l0C0> so 9572 and 2000?
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| 07:59 | <markit> I've plugged the usb stick, I can see the device label in win2003 (rdesktop) but can't see any file
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| 07:59 | any clue?
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| 07:59 | I've tried -r disk:usbstick=/var/run/drives to archieve this
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| 08:07 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:18 | <rjune_wrk> !s
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| 08:18 | <ltspbot> rjune_wrk: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:24 | <sbalneav> Morning rjune_wrk
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| 08:26 | <markit> I'm wondering if local device can be accessed if I use rdesktop...
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| 08:29 | <sbalneav> markit: Not sure. I wrote localdev support, but only for Linux. Hang around for Gadi, I think he did some work with getting it to go under rdesktop.
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| 08:30 | * Gadi waves | |
| 08:30 | <Gadi> markit: do this: install ltspfs in the chroot
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| 08:30 | then, update the chroot
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| 08:31 | then, set your rdesktop command to: rdesktop -r disk:drives=/media/root ....
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| 08:31 | and reboot the thin client
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| 08:31 | (this presumes Ubuntu 9.04
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| 08:31 | <sbalneav> Gadi: I'm just finishing off the xrandr bits for the docs.
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| 08:31 | <Gadi> )
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| 08:31 | sbalneav: cool
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| 08:31 | <sbalneav> I'm editing uup that email you sent to the list.
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| 08:32 | Within the next hour or so, I should have a new version of the docs and manpage up.
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| 08:32 | <Gadi> awesome
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| 08:32 | how's the land down under (me) ?
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| 08:32 | :)
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| 08:33 | <sbalneav> We need to come up with a protocol for us to *STOP* adding parameters to lts-parameters.txt, and start just adding them to the lts.conf.xml file so we'll keep the lts.conf.5 manpage up to date.
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| 08:33 | <sbalneav> Good. Excellent conference.
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| 08:33 | And, the docs should be (close to) back in sync with LTSP.
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| 08:34 | <Gadi> are the docs versioned?
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| 08:34 | <sbalneav> yes.
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| 08:35 | there's a bzr branch on launchpad.
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| 08:35 | <Gadi> do the docs have a section on "how do I know what version I have" ?
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| 08:35 | <sbalneav> lp:~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk
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| 08:35 | <Gadi> right
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| 08:35 | I dont mean versioned for the authors
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| 08:35 | I mean versioned for the users
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| 08:36 | so, they know that it applies to LTSP version blah blah blah
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| 08:36 | <sbalneav> They're upstream docs.
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| 08:36 | they should track current upstream verson.
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| 08:36 | <Gadi> right. and upstream has versions
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| 08:36 | <sbalneav> Really?
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| 08:36 | <Gadi> :)
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| 08:36 | lol
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| 08:36 | <ogra> we should just get rid of versioning
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| 08:37 | <Gadi> If you could have it print the version number on the docs when they are generated, that would be perfect
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| 08:37 | is all Im saying
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| 08:37 | <sbalneav> Last I checked, ltsp-trunk's just a constant moving target :)
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| 08:37 | <ogra> yeah, its way to confusing to have versions
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| 08:37 | we should have beer instead of versions
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| 08:37 | thats my longstanding opinion
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| 08:37 | <sbalneav> Gadi: I'll add it to the todo AFTER all the freaking parameters are documented. :)
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| 08:37 | <Gadi> mmm... beer control
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| 08:38 | sbalneav: thx
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| 08:38 | <ogra> cd ./glass && merge ../beer && commit -m'mmmm'
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| 08:39 | <sbalneav> so when I push up this version, if all LTSP developers could have a quick shufty at the docs and see if we're missing any params.
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| 08:39 | <Gadi> security hole found in glass... beer dribbles down ogra's chin
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| 08:39 | <sbalneav> Some of them aren't nicely described, but it would be nice if they were at least all there.
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| 08:39 | <ogra> ouch ... seems i need to apply a patch :)
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| 08:40 | <Gadi> vagrantc reverts ogra's patch and the beer continues to leak out
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| 08:40 | *sigh*
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| 08:40 | <ogra> evil !
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| 08:40 | <Gadi> :)
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| 08:40 | * ogra commits cork | |
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| 08:43 | <xBowser> Hello. Does anybody know how I could execute a script on my LTSP server at user logout?
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| 08:55 | <jammcq> good morning #ltsp
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| 08:56 | <l0C0> good afternoon jammcq
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| 08:56 | <sbalneav> !j
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| 08:56 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "j" is jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:57 | <jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:57 | hey l0C0
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| 09:00 | <sbalneav> !docs
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| 09:00 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 09:02 | <xBowser> Is there any solution to the problem of users processes not being killed after logout?
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| 09:03 | <markit> Gadi: I'm back
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| 09:04 | I've done as you suggested, is installed by default by debian 5.0
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| 09:04 | I've had a look at the udev and mount script though
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| 09:04 | seems they need a LDM_SOCKET
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| 09:05 | if I plug the usb pen, I see it in dmsg
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| 09:06 | <Gadi> markit: its not by deafult in the chroot
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| 09:07 | only ltspfsd is in the chroot by default
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| 09:07 | not ltspfs
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| 09:07 | <sbalneav> Okiedoke.
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| 09:08 | I've updated the docs. The PDF's in the usual place, or, via bzr
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| 09:08 | If everyone could take a quick look, and make sure we're not missing any params, that'd be greatly appreciated.
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| 09:09 | <Gadi> sbalneav: I dont think this is correct:
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| 09:09 | LDM_SESSIONdepreciated, use LDM_XSESSION
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| 09:10 | LDM_SESSION is used to force the choice of session from LDM, as opposed to LDM_XSESSION which is used to change the entire command that LDM runs
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| 09:10 | (I believe)
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| 09:10 | <sbalneav> OK
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| 09:12 | <Gadi> There are definitely parts that are dangerous for upstream docs to have - like "Setting up LDAP"
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| 09:12 | <sbalneav> Gadi: Fixed.
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| 09:13 | Gadi: I agree. They were contributed by someone. My view's the same as yours, they should be "distro docs", i.e. down in the edubuntu handbook.
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| 09:13 | <Gadi> In fact, all of Chapter 21
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| 09:13 | :)
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| 09:14 | <sbalneav> They're there as a placeholder for the moment. I'm also kickstarting the edubuntu handbook as well, so when I get that back into shape, those "sysadminy" things will move out of the ltsp manual, and into that.
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| 09:15 | but for the moment, I don't want to lose them, so I've just been ignoring them.
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| 09:15 | that's why they're relegated to the butt-end of the document :)
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| 09:15 | <Gadi> Chapter 29
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| 09:15 | yeah, I see that
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| 09:16 | Then, the follow up question is whether user-contributed "Tips and Tricks" should just be in the wiki
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| 09:16 | rather than the docs
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| 09:16 | <sbalneav> I suspect so
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| 09:17 | Ultimately, the docs should JUST be about ltsp specifics, and be distro-neutral.
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| 09:17 | <Gadi> right - that way it is really current and easier to manage
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| 09:18 | <markit> Gadi: you are right, only ltspfsd
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| 09:18 | <Gadi> all in all, tho, awesome job
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| 09:18 | <sbalneav> I'd even go so far as to say the installing on (debian|fedora|etc) chapter should be reduced to "please consult your distro's docs on installing the LTSP packages on your distro"
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| 09:18 | <Gadi> markit: our approach to local devices for RDP connections from the client is to use ltspfs as the "automounter"
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| 09:18 | <markit> Gadi: what do you mean with "update chroot"?
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| 09:19 | <Gadi> markit: sorry - I assumed Ubuntu, you are on debian NFS, right?
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| 09:19 | <markit> Gadi: debian lenny
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| 09:19 | yes, I suppose uses nfs (is something I can check?)
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| 09:19 | <Gadi> markit: then simply install ltspfs in the chroot and reboot the client
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| 09:20 | <markit> ok, thanks, I try imediatly
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| 09:20 | <Gadi> no need to update the image because you don't use one :)
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| 09:20 | but, change thee rdesktop line to: rdesktop -r disk:drives=/media/root ....
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| 09:20 | <markit> really /media/root?
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| 09:21 | <Gadi> yup
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| 09:21 | hopefully, you will see all local drives appear as folders under My Computer > drives on <workstation_hostname>
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| 09:22 | ltspfs by default mounts things in /media/$USER
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| 09:22 | and rdesktop runs as root
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| 09:22 | hence, /media/root
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| 09:22 | <markit> and disk:drivers and not something like disk:usb ?
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| 09:23 | <Gadi> the syntax is: disk:<share_name>=<path>
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| 09:23 | so, whatever you name the share is what will appear in Windows under My Computer
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| 09:24 | "usb" would be a misnomer, because cdrom, floppies, and other disks would appear there as folders as well
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| 09:24 | but, whatever turns you on
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| 09:24 | :)
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| 09:25 | <markit> mmm it tries to install fuse, and complains grep: /proc/mounts: No such file or directory
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| 09:25 | <Gadi> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 09:25 | <markit> yes, done
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| 09:25 | <Gadi> mount -t proc proc /proc
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| 09:26 | apt-get install ltspfs
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| 09:26 | umount /proc
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| 09:26 | exit
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| 09:26 | <sbalneav> Gadi: The "Enabling dual monitors" section should (now) really be handled by the xrandr section, right?
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| 09:26 | <markit> I've issued a apt-get update... hold on
| |
| 09:26 | <Gadi> sbalneav: depends on the driver
| |
| 09:27 | ideally, yes
| |
| 09:27 | <markit> Gadi: is all this stuff documented somewhere? I've wasted all day looking for those info
| |
| 09:27 | <Gadi> markit: prolly not - sbalneav is working hard on it
| |
| 09:27 | :)
| |
| 09:27 | <sbalneav> Do you have a handy "xrandr dual monitor" example?
| |
| 09:27 | <markit> udev requires a mounted sysfs, not started. failed!
| |
| 09:28 | <Gadi> markit: try: export LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=False
| |
| 09:28 | <jammcq> sbalneav: dude, we're gonna be leaving in about 20 minutes
| |
| 09:28 | <Gadi> apt-get install ltspfs
| |
| 09:28 | <markit> the same
| |
| 09:29 | <Gadi> ok, then: mount -t sysfs sysfs /sys
| |
| 09:29 | apt-get install ltspfs
| |
| 09:29 | <sbalneav> jammcq: ok
| |
| 09:29 | takes me 30 seconds to shut down.
| |
| 09:30 | <markit> Gadi: seems ok, except a warning like (I translate from italian) Impossible write a log, openpty() failed (is /dev/pts mounted?)
| |
| 09:30 | <Gadi> thats fine
| |
| 09:30 | umount /sys
| |
| 09:30 | umount /proc
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| 09:30 | exit
| |
| 09:31 | <markit> ok, just reboot the client then?
| |
| 09:31 | <Gadi> yeah
| |
| 09:31 | * markit crosses his fingers | |
| 09:32 | <Gadi> sbalneav: I *think* as long as monitors are plugged in and on, it should try to automagically do multihead
| |
| 09:32 | honestly, it has been a while since I tried it
| |
| 09:32 | <markit> I will have also to share usb - client -connected printers... is that so hard also?
| |
| 09:33 | <Gadi> markit: enormously
| |
| 09:33 | <bieb> what disk space alotments should I make for an LTSP server? 250gb hard drive? or will I need more space. I will have <20 clients
| |
| 09:33 | <Gadi> :)
| |
| 09:33 | <sbalneav> Gadi: ok, thanks.
| |
| 09:33 | <rjune_wrk> bieb: how many users do you have?
| |
| 09:33 | <markit> Gadi: tell me is a joke
| |
| 09:33 | <rjune_wrk> bieb: How much space will they need?
| |
| 09:34 | <Gadi> markit: I am kidding
| |
| 09:34 | <sbalneav> bieb: Well, if each of the users wants to store 1TB of data, it won't be enough. :)
| |
| 09:34 | <rjune_wrk> If you're doing basic use stuff, you can probably get away with < 1G per user
| |
| 09:34 | <markit> I've logged, I se "drivers on ltsp", but if I enter is empty
| |
| 09:34 | <Gadi> but... you should be aware that LTSP by default supports only one type of printing on the client - JetDirect printing
| |
| 09:34 | <bieb> rjune_wrk: @400... these are going into a lab, so I dont think we are giving them storage space
| |
| 09:34 | <Gadi> markit: did you do: /media/root ?
| |
| 09:34 | for the path?
| |
| 09:34 | <bieb> they don't currently have storage space on the Windows server
| |
| 09:35 | <markit> SCREEN_08 = "rdesktop -f -k it 192.168.1.2 -r disk:drivers=/media/root"
| |
| 09:35 | <Gadi> and the usb stick is plugged in?
| |
| 09:35 | <markit> yes
| |
| 09:35 | <Gadi> ok, can you switch to a shell on the client and see if /media/root was created?
| |
| 09:35 | <markit> sure, let me do it
| |
| 09:35 | <sbalneav> Ok heading out.
| |
| 09:35 | see you all later.
| |
| 09:36 | <bieb> later sbalneav
| |
| 09:36 | * Gadi waves | |
| 09:36 | * bieb waves | |
| 09:36 | <markit> Gadi: /media is empty
| |
| 09:36 | <Gadi> aha!
| |
| 09:37 | can you do: mount
| |
| 09:37 | <markit> and mount | grep sd is empty also
| |
| 09:37 | <Gadi> how about: mount|grep ltspfs
| |
| 09:37 | <markit> empty also
| |
| 09:37 | <Gadi> dpkg -l ltspfs
| |
| 09:38 | <markit> installed, 0.5.3-3 version
| |
| 09:39 | <Gadi> ah - I think the version is too old
| |
| 09:39 | jammcq has quit IRC | |
| 09:39 | <markit> Gadi: urgh
| |
| 09:39 | <Gadi> can you enable the updates repository in the chroot?
| |
| 09:40 | <markit> I've tried to install ltsp for sid, but failed in ltsp creation due to dependencies problems
| |
| 09:40 | Gadi: what do you mean? if I have /etc/apt/soruces? they are there
| |
| 09:40 | * Gadi knows not the ways of debian - vagrantc knows best | |
| 09:40 | <Gadi> maybe it is in backports?
| |
| 09:40 | or testing?
| |
| 09:41 | I dunno
| |
| 09:41 | <markit> Gadi: mmm probably testing, hope not to fire a dependency storm
| |
| 09:41 | <Gadi> If you can hang on until vagrantc gets here
| |
| 09:41 | <markit> let me check
| |
| 09:41 | <Gadi> he maintains the packages
| |
| 09:41 | <markit> do you know what is the correct version to look for?
| |
| 09:42 | <Gadi> well, newest upstream is 0.5.12
| |
| 09:43 | not sure what the last package vagrantc pushed to the debian repos was
| |
| 09:43 | You may be able to get just the ltspfs and ltspfsd packages for that version and install them in the chroot
| |
| 09:43 | <markit> 0.5.12-1 in sid, let me try to install it
| |
| 09:44 | do I have to install both updated?
| |
| 09:44 | <Gadi> it would be safest to
| |
| 09:45 | <markit> ok, do I have to reboot ltsp server or anything except the client?
| |
| 09:45 | <Gadi> nope
| |
| 09:45 | just the client
| |
| 09:46 | <bieb> rjune_wrk: is there a calculation for memory in ltsp? ie.. 256mb for each client?
| |
| 09:46 | <rjune_wrk> RAM on the server? probably
| |
| 09:46 | I don't know what it is currently
| |
| 09:46 | used to be 50MB / client would do you alright
| |
| 09:47 | <bieb> do you have a rule of thumb for your server?
| |
| 09:47 | <rjune_wrk> now it might be 128MB or even 256MB, I'm just not sure
| |
| 09:48 | <bieb> is more better when it comes to RAM? should I use PAE to get over 4gb in my server?
| |
| 09:48 | <markit> Gadi: nothing new... nor in /media
| |
| 09:49 | <rjune_wrk> bieb: 256MB/user with 250 users == 64000MB RAM.
| |
| 09:50 | <markit> Gadi: dmesg sees sda1 correctly
| |
| 09:50 | <bieb> rjune_wrk: would it be per user? or per client?
| |
| 09:50 | <rjune_wrk> RAM is per client
| |
| 09:50 | I've not done this in a while, so my knowledge is dated
| |
| 09:51 | <Gadi> markit: 1 sec
| |
| 09:51 | <markit> Gadi: sure, thanks a lot
| |
| 09:52 | <bieb> rjune_wrk: no prob... I appreciate the info
| |
| 09:53 | <Gadi> markit: sorry - 3 conversations at once :)
| |
| 09:53 | <markit> Gadi: no proble, drop the other 2 ;P (joking)
| |
| 09:53 | <Gadi> markit: hehe
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| 09:54 | markit: cat /var/run/ltspfs_fstab
| |
| 09:54 | does that have an entry for your usb?
| |
| 09:54 | <markit> yes, I see the label of the usb in that
| |
| 09:55 | <Gadi> ok, thats good
| |
| 09:55 | <markit> '/dev/sda1 /var/run/drivers/MENARDI vfat defaults,utf8 0 0'
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| 09:56 | <Gadi> on the shell, what happens when you do:
| |
| 09:56 | export USER=root
| |
| 09:56 | <markit> shell of the thin client? (where I've logged as root)
| |
| 09:56 | <Gadi> /usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /var/run/drivers/MENARDI add
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| 09:57 | (and are you sure it is "drivers" and not "drives"?
| |
| 09:57 | )
| |
| 09:57 | <markit> you are right, drives
| |
| 09:58 | Cannot open X display
| |
| 09:59 | <Gadi> export DISPLAY=:8
| |
| 09:59 | and do it again
| |
| 09:59 | markit has quit IRC | |
| 09:59 | markit has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:01 | <markit> is the channel still alive?
| |
| 10:01 | I've got the feeling of having lost connection...
| |
| 10:01 | <Gadi> alive and well
| |
| 10:02 | <markit> maybe I was disconnected in some way, I got welcome message from freenode server again
| |
| 10:02 | Gadi: if you wrote to me something I can have lost
| |
| 10:02 | (after I reported error message)
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| 10:03 | <Gadi> (10:58:50 AM) Gadi: export DISPLAY=:8
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| 10:03 | (10:58:55 AM) Gadi: and do it again
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| 10:04 | <markit> the error now is "Couldn't read LTSPFS_TOKEN atom.
| |
| 10:04 | <Gadi> hmm
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| 10:04 | are you ssh'd into the client?
| |
| 10:04 | <markit> no, client does not seem to have sshd
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| 10:05 | <Gadi> unset SSH_CONNECTION
| |
| 10:05 | <markit> I've a console near me, and I have to copy manually
| |
| 10:05 | <Gadi> just to be safe
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| 10:05 | and run it again
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| 10:05 | if you get the same thing, please:
| |
| 10:05 | dpkg -l ltspfsd
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| 10:05 | and make sure ltspfsd is the newer version
| |
| 10:06 | <markit> ltspfs ltspfsd ltspfsd-core are 0.5.12-1
| |
| 10:06 | (I'm logged in thin client console as root... is it ok?)
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| 10:06 | <Gadi> yeah
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| 10:07 | hmm...
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| 10:08 | phantom has quit IRC | |
| 10:08 | <markit> I can try to rdesktop to an XP pc, instead of win2003
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| 10:09 | bieb has quit IRC | |
| 10:09 | <Gadi> (sorry - ph call)
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| 10:09 | bieb has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:09 | <markit> np, I hold on
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| 10:10 | <Gadi> markit: try this:
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| 10:10 | on the server, edit:
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| 10:11 | /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/ltsp-init-common
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| 10:11 | phantom has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:11 | <Gadi> (I think thats where the file is)
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| 10:11 | <markit> yes, there is that file
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| 10:12 | <Gadi> and where is calls, "/usr/bin/ltspfsd" change it to: "/usr/bin/ltspfsd -a"
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| 10:12 | then, reboot the client
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| 10:15 | staffencasa has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:15 | <markit> still empty :(
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| 10:23 | Gadi: no more hope, I suppose...
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| 10:26 | alkisg has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:27 | <markit> btw, following a tip I've found in internet, I set the chroot root password... isn't that rdesktop supposes root with a specific password to run as root?
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| 10:36 | <Gadi> sorry - ph call again
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| 10:37 | <markit> Gadi: I've mistyped drives / drivers in lts.conf also... hope it that the problem (in case you should bit me )
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| 10:38 | no, did not solved :(
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| 10:39 | (reding carefully, is just a label, so could not have been a problem)
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| 10:42 | <Gadi> get a shell again, and type: /usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /var/run/drivers/MENARDI add
| |
| 10:42 | er, /usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /var/run/drives/MENARDI add
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| 10:42 | somethings weird
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| 10:45 | <markit> I've got the atom error and
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| 10:45 | suid mount failed: [Errno 39] Directory not empty: '/tmp/.root-ltspfs'
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| 10:49 | Gadi: in 30 minutes I have to go home... I could take home the server and a client, if you are in irc 3 hours since now, and you still have some energy to devote to this desperate fight
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| 10:49 | if not, I save the effort to bring home this heavy hardware :)
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| 10:49 | <Gadi> hehe - well, better than me, vagrantc might be in by then
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| 10:49 | <markit> ok, I will risk
| |
| 10:49 | <Gadi> he is our resident debian guy
| |
| 10:50 | <markit> we tested this solution with thinkstation and worked, so assumed would have be good with ltsp also
| |
| 10:50 | I have to install this ltsp server saturday... and I'm really scared
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| 10:50 | <Gadi> well, rdesktop is not really maintained in LTSP
| |
| 10:50 | all the focus is on LDM and Linux
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| 10:50 | l0C0 has quit IRC | |
| 10:50 | <Gadi> are you deploying a Linux desktop too?
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| 10:50 | or only Windows?
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| 10:51 | <markit> I know is a weird thing (M$ crap), but unfortunatly they still dominate the desktop in our offices
| |
| 10:51 | well, first step is provide windows only, then if they also will migrate to openoffice, try to provide some GNU/Linux workstation
| |
| 10:51 | is a sort of "troyan horse"
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| 10:51 | :)
| |
| 10:52 | <Gadi> we'll make it work for you
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| 10:52 | no worries
| |
| 10:52 | :)
| |
| 10:52 | it just may involve a bit more work than "out of the box"
| |
| 10:52 | <markit> I'm sure you are kind enough, is just I'm sad that my collegues have put 3 win2003 server running in some hours, and I'm hanging since this morning with GNU/Linux
| |
| 10:53 | so I'm in a bad mood right now, lol
| |
| 10:53 | <Gadi> well, if they were trying to connect their windows PCs to a Linux server, they would be in a bad mood too
| |
| 10:53 | :)
| |
| 10:53 | <markit> hehehe, is what I told them
| |
| 10:54 | but is not the way customers are asking for
| |
| 10:54 | unfortunatly
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| 10:54 | Gadi: so thanks A LOT, see you later, I hope
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| 10:54 | <Gadi> cu
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| 10:54 | <markit> bye (you've been really kind)
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| 12:28 | <Haruchai> anyone able to help with a diskless workstation 1520 pxe? the device doesn't post
| |
| 12:29 | green light on unit goes on when depressed - then goes out
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| 12:30 | <CAN-o-SPAM> Haruchai: you need to email rma@DisklessWorkstations.com
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| 12:32 | <Haruchai> ok thanks CoS
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| 12:35 | <ogra> CAN-o-SPAM, what are you doing to your hardware so that it can get depressed ?
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| 12:42 | <Haruchai> call it funny names and make fun of it's mother
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| 12:43 | <joqueza> lol
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| 13:02 | treyh has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:02 | <treyh> hi everyone
| |
| 13:02 | !seen Gadi
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| 13:02 | <ltspbot> treyh: Gadi was last seen in #ltsp 2 hours, 8 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <Gadi> cu
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| 13:59 | treyh has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:59 | <treyh> hey guys
| |
| 13:59 | i found this bug in ubuntu
| |
| 13:59 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/klibc/+bug/175324
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| 13:59 | there is a patch, but not sure if I should apply it or not
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| 13:59 | it fits my situation perfectly
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| 14:11 | <treyh> anyone around?
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| 14:12 | <alkisg> treyh: distro/version?
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| 14:12 | <treyh> alkisg: ubuntu/intrepid
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| 14:13 | i just tried update zlibc, to see if that helps
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| 14:13 | <alkisg> Ah, no go. I thought I'd suggest you that you tried udhcpc instead of ipconfig, but the support for it begun in Jaunty
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| 14:13 | You mean klibc?
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| 14:13 | <treyh> !!!!
| |
| 14:13 | <ltspbot> treyh: Error: "!!!" is not a valid command.
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| 14:13 | <treyh> yes
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| 14:13 | i am running Jaunty, that was a typo mistake on my part!
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| 14:14 | <alkisg> OK then, you could try with udhcpc. But, really, you use a dhcp relay agent?
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| 14:14 | <treyh> My dhcp server is a windows 2003 server
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| 14:14 | <alkisg> ...and?
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| 14:15 | <treyh> so basically i just disable dhcp on the ltsp server and let windows do the rest
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| 14:15 | <alkisg> So you don't have a relay agent... so that patch doesn't apply for you...
| |
| 14:15 | <treyh> whats a relay agent?
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> Something that "tunnels" dhcp requests from some network to another network
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| 14:16 | <treyh> oh gotcha
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> OK, forget about that patch. Did you modify your windows server to provide the correct next-server and boot filename options?
| |
| 14:17 | <treyh> yes
| |
| 14:17 | and 99% of the clients work
| |
| 14:17 | have two different models of two different manuf's that won't work
| |
| 14:18 | <alkisg> Did you try changing NICs, if that's possible?
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| 14:18 | <treyh> I worked with Gadi on it, he seemed to think it was a driver issue but and we tested a few things but I had to go and haven't got a chance to talk to him again
| |
| 14:18 | alkisg: yes originally use an onboard then disabled it and went for 3com, which killed his idea it might be a driver problem
| |
| 14:19 | Gadi, had me change pxelinux.cfg/default and put a some kind of break in there, and then type ipconfig on the terminal to see if it would pull dhcp and it did
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| 14:19 | <alkisg> What's the error message? how do they stop/hang?
| |
| 14:19 | <treyh> it says
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| 14:19 | ip-config: no response after 60 secs - giving up
| |
| 14:19 | here it is pasted
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| 14:19 | IP-Config: no response after 60 secs - giving up
| |
| 14:19 | /init: .: line 1: can't open /tmp/net-eth0.conf
| |
| 14:19 | [ 125.154111] Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!
| |
| 14:19 | [ 125.154241] Dumping ftrace buffer:
| |
| 14:19 | [ 125.154325] (ftrace buffer empty)
| |
| 14:20 | <alkisg> Yeah ok. So, you're sure that when you put break=init, and ran ipconfig eth0, that it indeed got a dhcp address?
| |
| 14:20 | Without changing nics or anything?
| |
| 14:20 | <treyh> yes and i can verify really quick but i am 100% positive
| |
| 14:21 | <alkisg> OK, you're near the PC? Can you try something?
| |
| 14:21 | <treyh> yes it's right next to me, do not have the break=init turned on right now though
| |
| 14:21 | <alkisg> No need - I just want to see if it'll boot with IPAPPEND 3
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| 14:22 | <treyh> k what do i need to change
| |
| 14:22 | <alkisg> Can you pastebin your pxelinux.cfg/default ?
| |
| 14:22 | <treyh> sure sec
| |
| 14:23 | DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img
| |
| 14:23 | thats the right directory right? /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg
| |
| 14:23 | <alkisg> OK, put another line in it, so that it says:
| |
| 14:23 | DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img
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| 14:23 | IPAPPEND 3
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| 14:23 | Save it and reboot this client that has the problem
| |
| 14:24 | <treyh> k rebooting now
| |
| 14:24 | elisboa has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:26 | <treyh> ok
| |
| 14:26 | <alkisg> It worked?
| |
| 14:27 | <treyh> it came up, got an ip and etc.
| |
| 14:27 | and now says filename: at the bottom
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| 14:27 | rootserver: 172.16.20.1 rootpath:
| |
| 14:27 | wait
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| 14:27 | it kept going finally
| |
| 14:27 | it worked
| |
| 14:27 | you are the bomb lol
| |
| 14:27 | but
| |
| 14:27 | it didn't read the lts.conf i have setup
| |
| 14:28 | <alkisg> Yeah ok that can be fixed.
| |
| 14:28 | <treyh> went straight to the ldm
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| 14:28 | <alkisg> To fix the lts.conf problem, do: sudo ln -s ltsp/i386/lts.conf /var/lib/tftpboot/lts.conf
| |
| 14:28 | <treyh> k
| |
| 14:29 | k did that, now reboot?
| |
| 14:29 | <alkisg> Yes, the client
| |
| 14:29 | <treyh> rebooting now
| |
| 14:30 | <bieb> I am looking at disklessworkstations.com.. what is the diff between etherboot and PXE? there is at $10 price difference, but I wasnt sure why.
| |
| 14:31 | <alkisg> treyh: with IPAPPEND 3 ipconfig doesn't ask for an IP address; it reuses the one that the dhcp assigned for the PXE stage. That's why it worked now, because no dhcp was involved.
| |
| 14:31 | <treyh> interesting
| |
| 14:31 | <alkisg> treyh: If that's not a problem for you, you can keep working like this; if it is, you may limit it for only those 2 PCs that have the problem
| |
| 14:32 | ....and, you may also install udhcpc in the chroot, perhaps this will also fix your problem
| |
| 14:32 | <treyh> alkisg: that fixed the problem
| |
| 14:33 | I'll just leave it like this, it's fine
| |
| 14:33 | <alkisg> treyh: ok, here are the steps to have as a reference: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP#Adjusting%20pxelinux.cfg/default
| |
| 14:33 | treyh: also do the lines that say about "The pxelinux.cfg/default file may get overriden by the ltsp-update-kernels command. To make it keep its contents, run: "
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| 14:34 | <alkisg> bieb: etherboot = the older version of gpxe. In standard ltsp configurations, any of them will do.
| |
| 14:35 | gpxe supports some more advanced stuff like http booting etc, which you probably won't need for ltsp
| |
| 14:35 | <bieb> alkisg: ltsp pxe boot is better way to go if buying new?
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> bieb: pxe is a little more standards compliant than the older etherboot - but again, usually it doesn't make any difference at all
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| 14:40 | <bieb> cool
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| 14:40 | <Vonoff> hi
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| 14:41 | I wonder whats the advantage of ssh'ing into the server and use the apps from there instead of staying in the chroot environment?
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| 15:08 | <markit> looking for Gedi or Vagrant... need help on ltsp5 debian and rdesktop and local devices (usb)
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| 15:08 | seems they are not here atm... anyone has been able to make local devices work with rdesktop?
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| 17:06 | <markit> anyone able to make local devices work with rdesktop?
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| 17:08 | <Ryan52> markit: there is no point in asking again, we heard you 2 hours ago, and there's nobody new who has joined here.
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| 17:19 | <markit> Ryan52: there are at least 2 new people, and someone could have been busy/distracted and have missed the question
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| 17:20 | don't think that asking after 2 hours in a quiet channel can be so annoying, don't you? :)
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| 17:21 | <Ryan52> no, there aren't any new people. they were both here when you asked, look closely.
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| 17:24 | vagrantc has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:25 | <Ryan52> markit: ok, now you should ask again. :)
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| 17:26 | <markit> hi vagrantc, I really need your help :)
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| 17:26 | gedi told me you could help
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| 17:26 | I've debian lenny ltsp package, and trying to use local usb device (memory stick) in rdesktop
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| 17:27 | gedi suggested rdesktop -r disk:drives=/media/root
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| 17:27 | and to install ltspfs in chroot
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| 17:27 | but can't have device mounted
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| 17:27 | any clue?
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| 17:29 | <vagrantc> markit: you'll need the ltspfs and ltspfsd packages from debian squeeze for that to work
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| 17:30 | <markit> debian squeeze? I've got from debian sid to have them uptodate
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| 17:30 | <vagrantc> markit: i haven't had good luck with it, though- device removal and insertion don't usually get registered ...
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| 17:30 | <markit> what is " debian squeeze"?
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| 17:30 | argh :(
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| 17:30 | <vagrantc> markit: lenny = stable, squeeze = testing, sid = unstable
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| 17:30 | etch = oldstable
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| 17:31 | <markit> are those from sid still good, or have to be testing?
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| 17:31 | <vagrantc> same version is in sid and squeeze right now
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| 17:31 | <markit> 0.5.12-1
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| 17:31 | if I try to manually mount the device I get an error
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| 17:32 | "Couldn't read LTSPFS_TOKEN atom
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| 17:32 | (with /usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /var/run/drivers/MENARDI add)
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| 17:32 | cat /var/run/ltspfs_fstab shows /dev/sda1 /var/run/drivers/MENARDI vfat defaults,utf8 0 0
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| 17:33 | <vagrantc> markit: output of mount: | grep MENARDI
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| 17:34 | <markit> let me cehck (I've to jump to the thin client console)
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| 17:34 | nothing
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| 17:35 | in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/ltsp-init-common gedi has told me to change
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| 17:35 | "/usr/bin/ltspfsd" change it to: "/usr/bin/ltspfsd -a"
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| 17:36 | btw, I've had to set root password in chroot... is it ok or could interfere with ltsp client with rdesktop ?
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| 17:36 | gedi told me that is run as "root" user from a ltsp point of view... (just wondering)
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| 17:38 | <vagrantc> to troubleshoot, shouldn't be a problem running as root
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| 17:39 | <markit> wondering if having set a passwrod to root is a problem.. maybe should be "blank" instead or don't know...
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| 17:40 | I'm trying to make it work all day long... I'm really depressed
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| 17:41 | <Lns> markit, there's no issue (besides potential security) to have a root password in your chroot
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| 17:42 | <vagrantc> markit: i fought with the local mounting support for ltspfs for many days, and never got it working.
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| 17:42 | i've never figured out how to get it to work...
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| 17:43 | the only thing i haven't tried yet is setting the server up to use nbd+squashfs+aufs like ubuntu does ...
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| 17:43 | <markit> vagrantc: oh, sorry, I understood that you were the one that was able to make it work
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| 17:44 | so let's say that I'd better try something else, like thinkstation ?
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| 17:44 | because if no one has been able so far, sure will not be me, since I'm not an expert
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| 17:44 | <vagrantc> allegedly they have it working with ubuntu
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| 17:44 | <Lns> markit, sorry, does the localdev work in straight linux?
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| 17:44 | <markit> with special tricks? or just "out of the box"?
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| 17:45 | Lns: probably if I login with ldm, since there is a "mount script" for that, but never tried
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| 17:45 | <vagrantc> markit: probably worth trying, just in case there's something amiss with the device itself
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| 17:46 | <markit> Lns: sure dmesg shows the usb device
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| 17:46 | <vagrantc> make sure it works with the "normal" way ltspfs works before trying experimental ways.
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| 17:47 | <markit> vagrantc: mm so I should install some desktop manager in ltsp ?
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| 17:47 | <vagrantc> markit: ldm should already be installed.
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| 17:48 | <markit> ldm is, but if I login I go to nowhere, of course
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| 17:48 | <vagrantc> markit: where's nowhere?
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| 17:48 | <markit> after entering username and password in ldm
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| 17:49 | <markit> screen becomes black, and then I've ldm login again
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| 17:49 | <Lns> isn't there at least an xterm available or something?
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| 17:49 | <markit> no
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| 17:50 | <vagrantc> markit: install ltsp-server-standalone on a server, which should ensure that everything works...
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| 17:50 | markit: then you should be able to log in to that server
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| 17:51 | <markit> since I use dnsmasq,I installed only the "lite" version
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| 17:51 | I will try
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| 17:52 | <vagrantc> dnsmasq should be an option for ltsp-server-standalone
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| 17:52 | <markit> I'm too tired and depressed to try now, is since 9am that I'm fighting, and is 1am here now
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| 17:52 | an option? don't think that that package has it inside
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| 17:52 | what do you mean as "option"?
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| 17:53 | <vagrantc> it could have dhcp3-server or dnsmasq installed ...
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| 17:53 | though that might only be for the newer ltsp-server-standalone packages...
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| 17:54 | the version in lenny should allow dnsmasq as an alternative to dhcp3-server ...
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| 17:54 | <markit> how can I choose when installing the package?
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| 17:54 | <vagrantc> apt-get install dnsmasq ltsp-server-standalone
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| 17:55 | <markit> in any case, I'm not able to troubleshooting and find workarounds, and the 2 most skilled person (you and gedi) have not succesfully had it working
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| 17:55 | <vagrantc> if you've already got it installed and working, it shouldn't make any difference.
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| 17:55 | i *thought* gadi had it working on ubuntu...
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| 17:55 | it's only on debian we haven't figured out what the issue is
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| 17:56 | <markit> ah, I see
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| 17:56 | <vagrantc> markit: but anyways, get some rest, and we'll go at it another time if you like. :)
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| 17:56 | <markit> so you are aware of the issue, and trying to solve?
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| 17:56 | <vagrantc> markit: i periodically try to get it working, and always come away frustrated.
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| 17:57 | <markit> vagrantc: I do thank you a lot, unfortunatly I have to install a rdesktop solution for a client of the company I work for in some days time
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| 17:57 | <vagrantc> markit: well, do what you need to do
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| 17:57 | <markit> I suggested ltsp, but I'm in a sad situation now
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| 17:58 | <vagrantc> markit: try ubuntu, see if it works.
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| 17:58 | <markit> I've becoming more and more frustrated with FOSS in general, and the foss-evilempire integration is often necessary
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| 17:58 | vagrantc: ok, thanks a lot for the tip
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| 17:58 | latest stable ubuntu or 9.10?
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| 17:59 | <vagrantc> markit: i think 9.04 should have the features you need, but i'm not positive. i work on debian :)
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| 18:00 | <markit> I love debian, thanks for your work :)
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| 18:00 | <Lns> markit, frustrated with FOSS in general?
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| 18:01 | <markit> Lns: because many project are "half working", "badly documented", "don't find helpful people", "require you to become an expert just to archieve basic results" and so on
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| 18:02 | Lns: in the meantime I was fighting with usb local, for instance, my collegues have installed and setup 3 server with AD in replication
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| 18:02 | I've had bad experiences with zimbra also, lacking some basic features, or having strange bugs somewhere
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| 18:02 | and so on
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| 18:02 | <Lns> markit, surely you don't get a complete view of the world by only visiting the developing countries...
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| 18:03 | <markit> I do love free as in freedom software, but in real life-provide solution to your customers is really a trouble
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| 18:03 | <Lns> markit, I'd have to disagree
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| 18:03 | <markit> Lns: I would love if you can convince me that is just my mistake
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| 18:04 | <Lns> I have many Linux-only and Linux/Windows mixed clients and there is always a way to accomplish things
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| 18:04 | <markit> and the real situation of foss is much better than what I've experimented so far
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| 18:04 | <Lns> If you're the "computer guy" you need to become an expert in your craft, you can't expect everyone to make a point->click interface to FOSS software, it's just not what it's all about
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| 18:04 | <markit> Lns: probably, but you waste a lot of time that would not be wasted just paying some bucks to M$
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| 18:04 | <Lns> heh
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| 18:05 | <vagrantc> depends on your situation ... a lot.
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| 18:05 | <Lns> well, if that's how you see it, then I guess maybe M$ might be the way to go?
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| 18:05 | <markit> Lns: I care about freedom, as I told you
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| 18:05 | <Lns> Of course, down the line you're going to be spending big bucks just keeping the house of cards from falling over
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| 18:05 | <markit> but when I have to provide solution for living, I become very frustrated
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| 18:06 | also trying to make my friends use foss is frustrating
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| 18:06 | <Lns> markit, i'm in the same boat as you
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| 18:06 | why do you feel the need to make friends use foss?
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| 18:07 | <markit> because I care about them :)
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| 18:07 | my family is M$win-free
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| 18:07 | but I had a lot of troubles in making things go smooth for my children
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| 18:07 | and I had to surrender to adobe-flash, for instance
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| 18:07 | <Lns> =p
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| 18:08 | <markit> my father have been converted too...
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| 18:08 | * Lns could share a few stories about adobe...but won't | |
| 18:08 | <markit> but just some days ago he come back home with a cd
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| 18:08 | with his medical results of a recent visit
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| 18:08 | that can be viewed only with included M$crap software...
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| 18:08 | <Lns> ?
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| 18:08 | <markit> and he is asking me why he can't see them, if I told you that GNU is much better
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| 18:09 | <Lns> what format?
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| 18:09 | <markit> don't know, a proprietary one chained with that program
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| 18:09 | I suppose have been developed for local hospital
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| 18:10 | or something like that (I'm not so fluent in english to explain properly)
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| 18:10 | <Lns> ...well it's hard to blame FOSS for that. The practice of medicine should NOT be in the business of proprietary systems whatsoever.
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| 18:10 | jmho of course
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| 18:10 | <markit> but the story is that is a constant fight
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| 18:10 | <Lns> markit, of course it is
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| 18:10 | <markit> if something is wrong with M$, is an accepted limit
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| 18:10 | if is wrong with FOSS, then they blame you and switch to MJ$
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| 18:10 | <Lns> and it always will be, until people realize that such power over technology shouldn't be held by a single company
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| 18:11 | <markit> people don't care about freedom
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| 18:11 | nor understand is a problem
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| 18:11 | gnu/linux is just cheap
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| 18:11 | not Free
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| 18:11 | also with OpenOffice you have tremendous troubles
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| 18:11 | <Lns> I was doing a lot of reading last night and came to the conclusion that the word "Free" shouldn't even be included with open source / free software
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| 18:12 | <markit> my feeling is that M$office updates are making it behave worse and worse with OOo
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| 18:12 | Lns: better use "Libre"?
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| 18:12 | <Lns> markit, I look over 7 LTSP installations w/OOo, ~1400 users total...very little trouble with it
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| 18:12 | markit, I thought of "Community Developed Software"..thought that was more fitting
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| 18:13 | <markit> Lns: don't they have to use / exchange M$office docs?
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| 18:13 | <Lns> "Free" makes it sound cheap, "Share" makes you think shareware ( = cheap too)
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| 18:13 | markit, nope
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| 18:13 | well, yes actually
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| 18:13 | <markit> oh, many talk about foss as "freeware" lol
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| 18:14 | I do really need sleep
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| 18:14 | <Lns> yeah...we have to shake that off our backs...the 'free' thing just doesn't seem to work well with people that don't already know what it means
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| 18:14 | ;) good night markit, come back later
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| 18:14 | <markit> tomorrow :) 1am here,what time is it there?
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| 18:15 | <Lns> I'm in california, so it's 4pm
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| 18:15 | <markit> oh, california :)
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| 18:15 | ok, thanks to everyone, bye
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| 20:25 | <try2free> hi sbalneav
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| 20:26 | do you know how to make sound using Intel Corporation 82801EB/ER? please help.
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| 21:06 | <Lns> oooooooooooooooooooooogra
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