IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 26 October 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:12 | <muppis> Gibby, yes, it is possbile. We use that for selecting from thin boot or net install.
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| 00:12 | Even possible.
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| 00:17 | <alkisg> Gibby: you mean multiple chroots? Or to publish options like these? http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2828.0;attach=1672;image
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| 01:18 | <Gibby> alkisg, yes like the image
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| 01:18 | <alkisg> Gibby: that's pxelinux menus, ltsp-build-client isn't related to them
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| 01:18 | You can write one manually and use it
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| 01:19 | <Gibby> ok, when i run ltsp-build-client it tells me /opt/ltsp/i386 already exists tho
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| 01:20 | <Appiah> you can remove it before building...
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| 01:20 | or use rebuild
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| 01:21 | ltsp-update-image
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| 01:21 | <alkisg> Gibby: can you explain in more detail why do you want to run again ltsp-build-client if you already have a chroot?
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| 01:22 | <Gibby> definetly not removing it, it is mythbuntu, i want to have more than 1, like a few different flavours... also want to be able to do net installs
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| 01:23 | <Appiah> I dont see what net-installs has to do with ltsp at all?
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| 01:24 | if you want to edit a PXEboot menu it not really a ltsp issue at all ,just configure your dhcp/tftpserver
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| 01:24 | and if you still want to boot ltsp , just add that to the menu with the correct paths
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| 01:24 | <Gibby> i said also do netinstalls, not just, so like option 1 would be mythbuntu and be selected by default in 10 seconds or so, i also want to be able to boot a couple different flavours of thin clients and also net isntalls
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| 01:24 | <alkisg> Gibby: different flavors, you mean chroot flavors? Because once they login, the users will see whatever you have on the server, not on the chroot
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| 01:25 | <Gibby> hmm, well with mythbuntu they see the chroot not what is on the server
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| 01:25 | <alkisg> It uses fat clients?
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| 01:25 | If you use fat clients, then sure, they'll see what's on the chroot
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| 01:26 | <Gibby> ahhh that is what i want :)
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| 01:26 | <alkisg> For multiple chroots, the appopriate channel is here in #ltsp
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| 01:26 | For editing pxe menus, the appropriate channel is #syslinux
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| 01:26 | <Gibby> i think mythbuntu is a fat client but i just add the --mythbuntu option to ltsp
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| 01:27 | <alkisg> !fatclients
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| 01:27 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "fatclients" :: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 01:29 | <Gibby> that page only talks about 1 fat client... i want multiple.. am i missing an option?
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| 01:30 | <Appiah> :D
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| 01:31 | may I ask how many fat clients you are planning to use?
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| 01:31 | and should each one of them differ from the other one?
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| 01:31 | <Gibby> 3 or 4 and yes i want them to differ
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| 01:32 | <Appiah> do you want to use LTSP for anything else but these 3-4 fatclients?
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| 01:32 | <alkisg> ltsp-build-client --extra-help
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| 01:35 | <Gibby> yeah just the fat clients, i will figure out the pxelinux menu next and then how to boot iso
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| 01:35 | <Appiah> oh , I would not use LTSP for this :D
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| 01:36 | <Gibby> UDA won't work
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| 01:37 | <Appiah> UDA?
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| 01:37 | <Gibby> http://www.ultimatedeployment.org
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| 01:37 | what would you use then?
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| 01:37 | <Appiah> just install a linux server...
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| 01:37 | debian/ubuntu/suse whatever
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| 01:38 | install a dhcpserver and tftpserver
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| 01:38 | build the chroots and a menu
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| 01:38 | Done;
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| 01:39 | never heard of ultimatedeploymet
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| 01:39 | <Gibby> i already have the ubuntu server running and been using the PXE boot option on 5 of my myth frontends, i use untangle for my dhcp and tftp is installed on the ubuntu server
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| 01:39 | <alkisg> Appiah: fat clients don't boot by default, the ltsp infrastructure is needed
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| 01:40 | Otherwise you need 1 rw nfs-exported dir per *client*, not per chroot
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| 01:40 | <Gibby> so i take it the option to make multiple fat clients is --chroot?
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| 01:40 | <Appiah> what do you mean dont boot by default?
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| 01:41 | <alkisg> Appiah: how are they going to boot? With nfs? With nbd?
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| 01:41 | <Appiah> someone like that
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| 01:41 | something*
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| 01:41 | <alkisg> What part is going to modify their initramfs images?
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| 01:41 | E.g. to add nbd-client there, and the code to use it?
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| 01:41 | That's what ltsp does
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| 01:41 | <Appiah> I would build that
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| 01:42 | I know how ltsp works , I still wouldnt use it for that scenario
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| 01:42 | <alkisg> Also, what part is going to apply aufs to the client?
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| 01:42 | How are the users going to authenticate?
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| 01:42 | Etc etc, if you know of an existing fat client solution except for ltsp, please tell me, I've been searching all last summer and I couldn't find anything
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| 01:43 | <Appiah> Yes I'm aware that LTSP does provide this, If it were me I still wouldnt use LTSP for 4 different fat clients
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| 01:43 | <alkisg> So you'd rewrite all that part by yourself?
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| 01:43 | <Appiah> I wouldnt use a "solution"
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| 01:43 | thats what I'm saying
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| 01:43 | <alkisg> It would take months to get it right, but ok
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| 01:43 | <Appiah> :D
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| 01:43 | * alkisg has tried that | |
| 01:43 | <Appiah> may I ask what you were trying to run on these fat clients?
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| 01:44 | <alkisg> ...and that's why I then invested to ltsp
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| 01:44 | Me? Ubuntu, for school labs with good clients
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| 01:44 | <Appiah> is each fat client different on what softwares they have?
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| 01:45 | <alkisg> No, all the same. Each lab has it's own set of software, of course
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| 01:45 | (and its own server)
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| 01:46 | May I ask why wouldn't you use LTSP for that? What downsides are there?
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| 01:46 | <Appiah> no thats exactly what I would use LTSP for
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| 01:46 | <Gibby> :), you guys have fun, my next meeting starts in 5 hours, gotta get some sleep
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| 01:46 | <Appiah> ltsp is great for schools and similar places
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| 01:46 | <alkisg> Appiah: I mean in the case where multiple chroots are needed
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| 01:46 | (i.e. in Gibby's case)
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| 01:47 | <Appiah> not about downsides, it's how i'd like it
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| 01:48 | <alkisg> ok
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| 02:23 | <alkisg> !xauthority
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| 02:23 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "xauthority" :: to access the client X session from a local root shell, try: eval $(tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/$(pidof -s ldm gdm-simple-greeter gnome-session | cut -d' ' -f1)/environ | egrep '^DISPLAY=|^XAUTHORITY=') && export DISPLAY XAUTHORITY
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| 06:24 | <mssmss> Hi
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| 06:24 | I upgraded from Edubuntu 8.04LTS to 10.04 LTS and clients would not connect anymore ..
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| 06:25 | On ltsp-build-client --arch i386, I am getting the error :
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| 06:25 | I: Base system installed successfully.
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| 06:25 | error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
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| 06:25 | Any help on how to fix this is appreciated
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| 06:41 | <mssmss> On ltsp-build-client --arch i386, I am getting the error :
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| 06:41 | I: Base system installed successfully.
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| 06:41 | error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
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| 06:41 | any clue why ?
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| 06:42 | <pmatulis> mssmss: check disk space
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| 06:42 | <mssmss> have plenty ....new system
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| 06:42 | <pmatulis> mssmss: ok
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| 06:42 | <mssmss> same system used to work fine on 8.04LTS edubuntu
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| 06:42 | on upgrade to 10.04LTS, I am unable to get clients to connect
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| 06:43 | which is why I am trying the reinstall .....
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| 06:44 | <pmatulis> mssmss: i upgraded the other day from 9.10 to 10.04 and noticed that my tftp root was changed (in /etc/default/tftpd-hpa)
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| 06:44 | <mssmss> yes .. noticed and changed that too......
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| 06:45 | it now points to /var/lib/tftpboot
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| 06:46 | only after that did not work, did I try rebulding the clients ....
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| 06:47 | <pmatulis> mssmss: dunno, maybe try an strace
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| 06:48 | <mssmss> pmatulis: thanks ...how do I do an strace ..?
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| 06:48 | <pmatulis> mssmss: 'sudo strace ltsp-build-client.....'
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| 06:49 | mssmss: i think strace can come before sudo as well
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| 06:50 | <mssmss> is this like a log of the previosly issued command ?
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| 06:51 | <pmatulis> mssmss: it will show "system calls and signals" - 'man strace'
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| 06:51 | mssmss: it's a basic troubleshooting tool when a program doesn't do as expected
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| 06:52 | <mssmss> ok ...thanks
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| 06:53 | trying with the trace now ....
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| 06:53 | <pmatulis> mssmss: you're going to get a lot of stuff. it's the end you're interested in
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| 06:54 | <mssmss> ok ... I think it takes about 10 minutes ...
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| 06:54 | to get to the end ...
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| 07:05 | <h01ger> hi
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| 07:06 | out of sudden (jaja...) thin clients hang after logging, while ltspmounter is trying in vain to access the floppy
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| 07:06 | <h01ger> this is debian lenny... so ltsp 5.1.10
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| 07:07 | I wonder how /var/run/ltspfs_fstab is generated, it only consists of the floppy entry, which i would like to remove
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| 07:08 | but then, why should ltspmounter/lbmount suddenly fail?
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| 07:09 | <Blinny> In Ubuntu Hardy I used gnome-display-properties to update resolution - how lts.conf is only used for the login screen and I can't get the desired resolution after login - goes back to the gnome-display-properties setting. Where is this stored so that I may remove it?
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| 07:09 | :s;how;now
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| 07:10 | It used to be in ~/.gconf/desktop/gnome/screen/default/0/%gconf.xml but I don't have that tree
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| 07:12 | I have a gconf setting in apps/compiz/general/screen0/options of 'outputs' but I don't think that's it
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| 07:28 | <Blinny> Yeargh, this is driving me nuts!
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| 07:32 | <pmatulis> lts.conf video settings are only good for the login screen?
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| 07:34 | <[GuS]> Guys, anyone made possible to work localdevices (pendrives, cdrom, etc) with LTSP5 in Gentoo?
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| 07:48 | <pmatulis> wow, ubuntuone depends on network-manager
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| 07:48 | (sorry, wrong channel)
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| 07:49 | <mgariepy> morning everyone
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| 08:33 | <pod2> I'm having a bizarre problem with ltsp local drives and I'm not sure where to look next.
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| 08:33 | ltsp server is debian squeeze, clients are using rdesktop
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| 08:34 | connecting to a win 2003 TS, local drives work fine
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| 08:35 | same client connecting to 2008r2 server see the usb drive and lists the files correctly
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| 08:35 | however, when you try and copy a file, it says it doesn't exist any more and the whole usb drive folder disappears
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| 08:36 | the ltsp/client side appears to be ok as it works with a 2003 TS. The only thing I change is the ip of the TS in lts.conf
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| 08:37 | <pod2> I don't understand how it can show the usb drive and list the files, but not access them
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| 08:38 | <pmatulis> mssmss: so?
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| 08:41 | <mssmss> exit
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| 08:41 | sorry .... got a lot of output ... cannot make sense of it ...
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| 08:42 | pmatulis: maybe I should paste it somewhere ....
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| 08:44 | <pmatulis> mssmss: sure
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| 08:46 | <mssmss> read(3, "error: LTSP client installation "..., 128) = 48
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| 08:46 | read(3, "", 128) = 0
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| 08:46 | <pmatulis> mssmss: don't paste here
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| 08:49 | <mssmss> is there a better place ?
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| 08:49 | too much to paste here :-)
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| 08:51 | <pmatulis> mssmss: there used to be a special pastebin feature in this channel
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| 08:51 | mssmss: you can use any pastebin web site (pastebin.ca)
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| 08:52 | mssmss: or install 'pastebinit'
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| 09:08 | <mssmss> pmatulis: pasted at http://pastebin.ca/1973680
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| 09:09 | look at the end of the file for the error ...
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| 09:12 | <mssmss> I cannot understand why the ltsp build client script fails without any clear error message ....
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| 09:12 | maybe you can make sense of it ..
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| 10:37 | <pmatulis> a client is experiencing long wait times when logging in (LDM), i have set LDM_SYSLOG and LDM_DEBUG (lts.conf) but very little info is available
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| 12:10 | <eXcAliBuR> I have the dhcp-server running from my ltsp install... is it only going to give addresses to the interface at 192.168.0.1 ... or all interfaces?
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| 12:58 | <robehend1> has anyone used Openshot as a local app on 10.04 ltsp?
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| 13:44 | <Ghidorah> robehend1: How does your school handle internet filtering for students?
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| 14:01 | <robehend1> robehend1: 2 ways. Our high school is locked into contract with Lightspeed, and are using a Lightspeed TTC box for our students, at least for the next 2 years
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| 14:01 | er..not to me..
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| 14:02 | <Kyle__> Hu.
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| 14:02 | <robehend1> Ghidorah: Lightspeed TTC at our highschool. Elementary is now using OpenDNS filtering, and I'm quite happy with it. Not the free one, the education one.
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| 14:02 | <Kyle__> Are they any good?
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| 14:03 | <robehend1> Kyle__: Lightspeed isnt bad, but it requires a heck of a server to run efficently. It's one of those all-in-one gateways, like Untangle or Endian. sadly, it requires Microsoft's SQL to run, so at least Server 2003
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| 14:03 | <Kyle__> The local peroquial(sp? I whish irssi had check-as-you-type-spellcheck) school uses OpenDNS, they're quite happy with it...
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| 14:03 | Ewww :P
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| 14:03 | robehend1: You put that on a VM I hope?
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| 14:03 | <robehend1> robehend1: Inheritted it. It's on a dedicated Poweredge 2850
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| 14:04 | * Kyle__ nods | |
| 14:04 | <robehend1> I'm strongly looking at OpenDNS though, when the contract is up. I use Endian already, and am happy with it as a firewall, so it'll save some nice cash. 2500 a year in licensing alone.
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| 14:04 | <Kyle__> I tend to treat windows as the dirty thing it is: the only way my computers touch it is through a VM condom.
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| 14:05 | <robehend1> nod
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| 14:05 | say, anyone had luck getting Sabayon to recognize AD groups through likewise?
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| 14:05 | <Kyle__> robehend1: My father in-law runs all the IT for the school, and has used OpenDNS exclusively for several years. no major issues.
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| 14:05 | * Kyle__ has never tried likewise, sorry. | |
| 14:06 | <robehend1> No prob
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| 14:06 | well how about a general question, which is more "need suggestions" than "need tech support"
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| 14:07 | I'm having kids lash back at our use of Linux and Open Office. Basically, they just dont like it. We've made the interface streamlined, setup OpenOffice so it saves natively in their windows formats, and tried to make it as easy to use as anything. But they dont like
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| 14:08 | This led to one of them complaining to their parents, who are both Computer Linquistics. They then emailed my Supt. about how our choice to move away from Windows and/or Mac was harmful to students, due to them being 'what the kids will use'. So I'm trying to state my case the best I can. Any suggestions
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| 14:08 | <Kyle__> robehend1: At my old job we had the same issue when we switched over. We had to have it come from the top-down that this was their only option.... Do the students have the option of using MS Office?
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| 14:09 | <robehend1> Kyle__: No. We have OpenOffice on all student machines. Staff have MS Office 2003 until Thanksgiving. We gave them some time to develop some knowledge with OOo
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| 14:09 | Kyle__: Kid's also have Google Docs through our Google Apps as well, which they also hate.
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| 14:09 | <Kyle__> In the real world, you use what's available. At some companies, it will be MS Office, others, OpenOffice, still others use more esoteric software. You're required to use the tool infront of you.
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| 14:09 | The key is to learn how to adapt to the tool you're given.
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| 14:10 | Once the option of MS Office is all gone, and they have the choice of use OO or fail, they'll use it.
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| 14:11 | They are strikingly similar products, and it takes a lot of stubborness to not use it.
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| 14:11 | <robehend1> Kyle__: I agree, myself. however, when a supt that is up for re-election this year gets leaned on by parents, he leans on me hard. Any other suggestions you can have?
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| 14:11 | <Kyle__> robehend1: What country are you in?
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| 14:11 | <robehend1> Their complaints are mostly aesthetic. They hate Fontworks vs WordArt. Lack of Clipart, even though they have OpenClipart installed. Lack of templates. It's so horribe they have to work
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| 14:11 | USA
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| 14:12 | <Kyle__> Well, you can point out that many european countires have standardized on OO for goverment, as are some major corperations, such as IBM and Tootise Roll Industires.
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| 14:12 | (OK TRI may not be major, but I used to work for them ;)
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| 14:13 | You could also bring up the ecenomic argument of how much money you're saving the district, and how that saves jobs.
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| 14:14 | <robehend1> Oh, I have. I figured hte entire goverment of france moving to it would be a huge kicker, not to mention the republic of Macedonia in all education. Heck, the Indiana InAccess thing i thought would be huge
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| 14:14 | but at the end of the day, i get "it's not what they will be using in business, and it's not what their used to. My kid's work is suffering from not knowing the program, and I wont accept this"
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| 14:14 | <vagrantc> it's always an uphill battle, at least for the forseeable future...
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| 14:15 | <Kyle__> robehend1: But "what they will be using in business" is whatever the company gives them. And it may not be MS Office. They need to be able to fluidly adapt.
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| 14:15 | * Kyle__ sighs | |
| 14:15 | <Kyle__> I nkow the feeling.
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| 14:16 | <vagrantc> and different versions of MS Office are almost entirely different ... as different as a particular version of MS office and openoffice...
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| 14:19 | <Kyle__> and often different versions are not interoperable
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| 14:20 | <robehend1> Kyle__: I agree. I used Office 95 in High school. Compared to Office 2010, it's apples and oranges. But they are just not getting it, I guess
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| 14:20 | <vagrantc> openoffice is compatible with more versions of MS office than any given version of MS office
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| 14:20 | <vagrantc> a little preaching to the choir doesn't hurt now and then :)
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| 14:20 | <Kyle__> robehend1: Maybe in one of the openoffice channels, or mailing lists, someone can point you to an argument document/page to help you?
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| 14:21 | * Kyle__ grins | |
| 14:21 | <robehend1> Kyle__: Haven't checked. I tend to find more educators in here, hence the asking. Schools have their own...politics.
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| 14:21 | * Kyle__ nods | |
| 14:21 | <Kyle__> I knwo
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| 14:21 | I'm luckily isolated from my universitie's politics by my department.
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| 14:22 | <robehend1> lucky. I'm the only tech for the district, so it's all on one
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| 14:23 | <Kyle__> Whew.
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| 14:23 | That can be nice, but also stressfull.
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| 14:23 | * vagrantc wonders if support for multi-lingual environments would be a useful argument? | |
| 14:23 | <Kyle__> vagrantc: against MSOffice it is, against Mac, sadly not.
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| 14:24 | OSX is perhaps the only major OS that beats linux for multi-lingual support.
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| 14:24 | <vagrantc> except for really obscure languages
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| 14:25 | <Kyle__> I don't think pig-latin counts.
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| 14:25 | <vagrantc> how about basque?
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| 14:26 | or galician?
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| 14:26 | i know we've got those translated for LDM, at least :)
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| 14:27 | <Kyle__> You have galic and basque in LDM?
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| 14:27 | how about Welsh?
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| 14:27 | <vagrantc> galician ... it's a romance language, not gaelic
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| 14:28 | i think sandwiched between france, spain and italy, if i remember correctly
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| 14:28 | <robehend1> vagrantc: Tried Multilingual, but we have 2 ESLL total in our district. Bunch of swedes and norweigan farmboys here.
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| 14:28 | <Kyle__> vagrantc: My mistake. I've never heard of that one....
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| 14:28 | robehend1: iowa hu?
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| 14:29 | <robehend1> Kyle__: Minnesota, but close
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| 14:29 | <Kyle__> Same demographic, differing geography.
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| 14:29 | :)
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| 14:29 | <robehend1> Kyle__: nah, we grow soybeans, they grow corn. Tis important differance lol
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| 14:29 | <vagrantc> robehend1: no norwegian nynorsk revival interest?
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| 14:30 | <robehend1> vagrantc: Kids can barely read english, so sadly, no revival.
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| 14:30 | * Kyle__ blinks | |
| 14:30 | <robehend1> Kyle__: Public school, low income area, etc etc.
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| 14:30 | <Kyle__> Ouch. That hurts at some level...
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| 14:31 | <robehend1> we're to the point where we have a 48% internet access outside the building, as the highest we've ever had. And we still count dialup
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| 14:31 | <Kyle__> So it kindof sounds like they want you to save money, but the ecenomic arguments to you using OO over MSO are going to be ignored because of their preconceptions.
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| 14:31 | TCPoAC
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| 14:31 | (TCP over Avian Carriers).
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| 14:31 | <robehend1> Meh, I wanted the kids to learn to Word Process, not learn how to use Microsoft Word
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| 14:31 | Heh, if only.
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| 14:31 | <vagrantc> economic arguments are usually the weakest arguments with free software
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| 14:31 | * Kyle__ nods | |
| 14:32 | <robehend1> it's coming down to "lil billy didnt have a template in OpenOffice and therefore couldnt make his assignment and its your fault!"
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| 14:32 | "But did Lil Billy try to make a template? Or use Google Docs? Or maybe Google Search for a template available?"
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| 14:32 | "No! It should just be there for him, like in Office!"
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| 14:33 | <Kyle__> Ugh. OK. I hate those situations. Not in any small part because I know I'm not that great at them.
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| 14:33 | Have you spoken to the principal to get support for your decisions?
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| 14:33 | <robehend1> Kyle__: I dont think anyone is. I'm *this* far away from just configuring Gnome to look like XP, and theme LDM to look like XP, and have at it.
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| 14:34 | Kyle__: Have spoken, he agrees that kids should be able to adapt, but says we also must provide what the kids will use in college. Basic waffling
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| 14:34 | <vagrantc> nudge the regional colleges?
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| 14:34 | <Kyle__> They're having literacy issues and he's using that argument?
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| 14:35 | <vagrantc> or even survey the regional colleges to see what's actually used? you'll probably find 10 different versions of software
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| 14:35 | <robehend1> vagrantc: have nudged. Are in MS pocket. Heck, one of the largest colleges in the region is still a full Mac school
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| 14:35 | <vagrantc> ok, so we need to provide 15 different versions of a word processor... or teach people how to use any word processor...
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| 14:35 | <robehend1> Kyle__: Our elementary is creeping up to 35% Special Ed now, or at least on Indivual education plans. And they still use the arguement
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| 14:37 | <Kyle__> robehend1: Are there prebuilt templates for OO you can pre-install that will mimic the MS ones?
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| 14:37 | <robehend1> Kyle__: I've found a few, but not many. My answer was to have the kids learn how to make templates, as there isnt always a wizard to walk you through. You can guess how that went
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| 14:37 | <Kyle__> It's sucky, but you may have to resort to making and distributing your own templates :P ugh.
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| 14:38 | * Kyle__ nods | |
| 14:38 | <Kyle__> I can guess.
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| 14:39 | <robehend1> I may just need to break down and make some templates, But at the end of the day, it wont help the kid who is working at home or anything
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| 14:40 | <Kyle__> Well, the students working at home can install OpenOffice. If they're using MS at school, you cant say that for students who don't have Ms at home.
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| 14:40 | <robehend1> Kyle__: On a happier note: Do you still use gnome on your ltsp, or have experience with different WMs?
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| 14:40 | Kyle__: Agreed. and I provide discs, free of charge, with OpenOffice on it ;)
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| 14:42 | * vagrantc has found LXDE a pleasant lightweight desktop environment that works well with LTSP | |
| 14:43 | <robehend1> vagrantc: i've tried LXDE, and was pleased with it. However, is there some kind of lockdown, similiar to Gconf?
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| 14:44 | <Kyle__> robehend1: I have gnome installed on my images, but my default session launches a full-screen virtualbox....
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| 14:44 | <robehend1> Kyle__: Whats the benefit of that?
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| 14:44 | <Kyle__> robehend1: The students can choose their session: WindowsXP(VM), Windows7(VM), FreeBSD(VM), Gnome (native). But they don't actually know what's what.
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| 14:45 | <robehend1> Kyle__: How do you set up the Xp? the vm running on the server? I' could use this knowledge for testing, since Testnav still requires windows/mac for me
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| 14:45 | <Kyle__> robehend1: it gives them compleete control over their system, without me having to manage it/fix it. Their $HOME is mapped through to the windows VMs, so they get their files in whichever system they load.
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| 14:45 | Fat clients.
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| 14:46 | robehend1: My desktops are aging, but still fast enough to use as fat clients, so I put virtualbox in the image.
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| 14:47 | <robehend1> Kyle__: Ah, that makes sense then. Mine are Celerons with 512mb ram in some places. Does the image having Xp on it slow boot to a crawl?
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| 14:48 | <Kyle__> The XP image actually loads pretty quickly, and runs just fine. CPU intensive things like NetBeans work, but the interface is slightly laggy. I think that's pretty impressive, considering my CPUs don't have virtualization-extentions.
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| 14:49 | <robehend1> hmm
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| 14:49 | I may have to make an image to see how that'd go. Espicially for testnav. It's the only thing, beyond this new ball of wax, holding us back from full linux deployment
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| 14:49 | <Kyle__> The really nice thing abou tthis setup is the professors are teaching them in XP so they get comfortable, then migrate them to linux since it's faster on these boxes (because it's native). Makes me quite happy.
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| 14:50 | * Kyle__ nods | |
| 14:50 | <robehend1> Kyle__: Does sound and everything work through XP?
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| 14:50 | Kyle__: Oh, and USB mounts?
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| 14:51 | <Kyle__> robehend1: Ahh, well the ubuntu-packaged virtualbox-ose does not have usb support, so I installed the usbmount package, and setup /media as a shared drive in virtualbox. So they plug in a usb stick and it shows up in M:\\usb (I have media mapped to M: obviously)
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| 14:51 | If I used the closed source virtualbox, I could have had full USB support, but I didn't want to this semester (first I"m using it).
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| 14:52 | <robehend1> robehend1: Works for me. I'm going to have to give this a shot. It'll save me so much time for testing.
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| 14:52 | <Kyle__> No problem.
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| 14:52 | <robehend1> Kyle__: Sound work as well?
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| 14:52 | <Kyle__> I'm quite happy with it.
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| 14:52 | * Kyle__ nods | |
| 14:52 | <robehend1> nice
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| 14:52 | And now, my last question for the next 45 minutes.
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| 14:52 | <Kyle__> Because it's such a stable known soundcard that VBox emulates, I think it works better than loading windows on the hardware myself :)
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| 14:53 | <robehend1> Ever had OpenOffice give you the "General Input/Output error"? I'm getting it only on my LTSP units
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| 14:53 | it lets me export the file as a pdf still, but gives the General Input/Output when trying to save in any form.
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| 14:53 | not user or workstation specific, just random
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| 14:56 | <Kyle__> Weird. No I've never had that issue
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| 14:57 | <robehend1> Ah, ok. I'll keep working on it
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| 14:57 | <Kyle__> Sorry, can't help there. But I'll be interested to hear what it was!
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| 14:58 | <robehend1> Kyle__: Me to. It's really random, so far. I google it, but I get all kinds of different answers.
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| 15:00 | <robehend1> Kyle__: Are you running OOo as a local app on yours, since your clients are beefy?
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| 15:01 | <Kyle__> robehend1: They're fat-clients, so everything is like a local-app.
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| 15:01 | <robehend1> ah, my bad. Maybe I should give that a shot, see how it works.
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| 15:02 | <Kyle__> I'm pretty fond of it.
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| 15:02 | <robehend1> Kyle__: I'm just trying to go into thin clients, for the energy savings. But if I've got em, might as well use em
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| 15:02 | * Kyle__ nods | |
| 15:03 | <robehend1> and then that will solve my problem of having to go to Downloads to open everything downloaded from Local Firefox
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| 15:04 | Kyle__: What kind of hardware do you have for your fat clients, so that I have a point of reference?
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| 15:04 | <Kyle__> Dell Optiplex GX620s.
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| 15:05 | <robehend1> Kyle__: Pentium d with a gig of ram?
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| 15:05 | <Kyle__> Hyperthreadded P4, 2gigs of ram, onboard video and sound, gigabit ethernet
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| 15:06 | I only wish they were PentiumDs. Would be tremendously faster than these p4s.
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| 15:06 | <robehend1> Kyle__: Ah, ya, bit stronger than my celerons with 512 megs of ram and 100baseT nics
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| 15:06 | * Kyle__ curses his predocessor for buying the cheapest boxes he could | |
| 15:06 | * Kyle__ nods | |
| 15:06 | <robehend1> Kyle__: If you look for more boxes that arent horrendous on price, try CDI computers, if your in North America. Great prices on refurbs
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| 15:07 | Kyle__: Just got 30 Dell Optiplex 745's with Pent D, 2 gig of ram, and Gigabit nics, plus 17in lcds, for 11k with shipping
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| 15:07 | <Kyle__> Apparently my predocessor did not want students using the lab for anything but cisco classes. Before me there was a fight just to get office & a compiler on them. That's insane since I work for a CS department.
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| 15:07 | robehend1: Nice. Those are good boxes.
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| 15:08 | <robehend1> Kyle__: Agreed. And thats consumer pricing. Education is even better
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| 15:14 | <Ghidorah> robehend1: Does OpenDNS do AD intergration?
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| 15:15 | <robehend1> Ghidorah: No it does not. It alllows you to create users, but thats it
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| 15:15 | Ghidorah: It's my biggest complaint, but for the pricing differnce. I'm ok with it
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| 15:17 | <robehend1> E-gasp! Ubuntu is getting rid of Gnome come 11.04!
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| 15:18 | * Kyle__ shrugs | |
| 15:18 | <robehend1> Kyle__: It wouldnt be a problem if they werent replacing it with their Unity netbook thingy
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| 15:18 | <Kyle__> It wont hapen. Ubuntu has made other crazy claims before and never went through with it.
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| 15:18 | * Kyle__ hates their netbook edition... | |
| 15:18 | <ogra_ac> ubuntu isnt replacing gnome
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| 15:19 | it replaces gnome-shell with unity ... the rest of gnome is identical
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| 15:19 | <robehend1> ogra_ac: I got that part. It's the end-user part I'm concerned with. At least I can go change it back.
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| 15:19 | <ogra_ac> sure
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| 15:21 | * alkisg thinks that a lot of plain ubuntu users will switch to linux mint :) | |
| 15:22 | <alkisg> ogra_ac: have you used unity for a while? Does it get easy after some period?
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| 15:22 | <ogra_ac> i use arm devices ... no GL support
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> I never got to use the ribbon in office, and I can't find anything in vista/7....
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| 15:22 | *got to get used to...
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| 15:23 | The weird thing is that I can't find anyone that actually likes the way where GUIs are heading... students, people that only use PCs for surfing, they all tell me that they preferred the old UIs :(
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| 15:24 | <ogra_ac> the old UI isnt gone
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| 15:24 | and wont be
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> But if the new UI "fails", a lot of development power will be wasted
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| 15:25 | * alkisg hasn't tried gnome shell but doesn't think he'll like that either | |
| 15:25 | <ogra_ac> why do you care ... its paid dev time which you dont pay
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| 15:26 | its just another UI option you can select
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| 15:26 | <alkisg> Because switching to gnome will be less supported by ubuntu and its community
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| 15:26 | <ogra_ac> and one you can easily not use if you dont like
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| 15:26 | <ogra_ac> thats not true
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| 15:26 | <alkisg> E.g. how many different indicators are the app devs going to implement?
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| 15:26 | One for stock gnome, one for ubuntu gnome, one for unity, one for gnome shell...
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| 15:26 | <ogra_ac> no
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> I don't think they're going to implement all those...
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| 15:27 | <ogra_ac> only one
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| 15:27 | as its done today
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> Today they implement the first 2
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| 15:27 | <ogra_ac> no
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| 15:27 | what makes you think that ?
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| 15:28 | <alkisg> There's no "notify applet" in stock gnome, it's ubuntu specific...
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| 15:28 | <ogra_ac> right
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| 15:28 | so there is only one developed
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| 15:28 | <alkisg> One for ubuntu
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| 15:28 | One for gnome shell
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| 15:28 | <ogra_ac> and its not in upstream gnome because upstream gnome refused to take it
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| 15:28 | <alkisg> One for unity etc...
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| 15:28 | Right
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| 15:28 | <ogra_ac> there will always only be one
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| 15:28 | <alkisg> That diversion from upstream, I wonder if it'll prove to be good for the community
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| 15:29 | <ogra_ac> tell that to gnome
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| 15:29 | or better to redhat
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| 15:29 | if contributions are blockd for political reasons, what do you do ?
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| 15:29 | drop all your work ?
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| 15:29 | <alkisg> Redhat is driving gnome-shell? They don't seem to have a good progress with it...
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| 15:30 | <ogra_ac> novell is driving gnome-shell mainly ... redhat drivvvves most of gnome core
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| 15:31 | <alkisg> Hmm... that doesn't sound good... damn marketing divisions... the programmers should be given all decision powers :D
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| 15:31 | <ogra_ac> ubuntu made a lot of attempts to do stuff the right way to get it accepted upstream
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| 15:31 | <robehend1> all cli, all the time?
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| 15:32 | i find myself strangely ok with this
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| 15:32 | <ogra_ac> i.e. the notification system is based on an unfinished xdg spec
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| 15:32 | ubuntu finished it and implemented it, then gnome blocked its inclusion
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> Gotcha. Yes it looks like a correct decision then, if we assume that a new UI was indeed needed.
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| 15:34 | <Kyle__> Sorry, but the gnome project weilds way to much political power in the OSS world, and thinks very highly of itself, when in reality it's just a WM.
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| 15:34 | <alkisg> Didn't Canonical sponsor Gnome at a time?
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| 15:34 | <ogra_ac> it donated to gnome
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| 15:34 | and sponsored conferences etc
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| 15:34 | <robehend1> pretty sure every major vendor has donated to gnome, one time or another
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| 15:35 | <ogra_ac> right
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| 15:35 | <robehend1> i'll just be happy if it keeps the bloat out and doesnt turn into kde
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| 16:40 | * Kyle__ groans | |
| 16:41 | <Kyle__> OK, moving my ltsp service from one box to another. Can't login from my fat clients yet. They just time out. Any clue where to look since I'm going crosseyed?
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| 16:57 | <alkisg> Kyle__: ltsp-update-sshkeys && ltsp-update-image ?
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| 17:01 | * Kyle__ nods | |
| 17:01 | <Kyle__> Did it.
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| 17:01 | I just ran an update and bounced, trying again :)
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| 17:02 | luckily I'm (just) smart enough to have left the old box up and running, with the interface down :)
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| 17:06 | <Kyle__> Humm, seems to be OK this time. Guess somethign was out of wack before that lst update. Whoot!
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| 17:12 | <Kyle__> When in doubt, update.
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