IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 2 April 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 04:19 | <priyank> hi i am having problem booting it is showing TFTP time out
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| 04:19 | booting the ltsp client
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| 04:20 | <alkisg> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP
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| 04:24 | <priyank> hi alkisg the tftp server is running can u look into it
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| 04:25 | x11vnc?
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| 04:25 | <alkisg> Sorry not right know, busy
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| 04:25 | <priyank> ok, i will try myself.
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| 04:26 | <alkisg> (conference this weekend)
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| 04:33 | <priyank> which conference? ok no probs. but just tell me 1 thing I was trying to boot client yesterday
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| 04:33 | it booted correctly when i booted through oracle VM
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| 04:34 | but when i tried on machine then it stuck at last step.(i think loading ltsp client)
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| 04:48 | <Mava> wtf..
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| 04:48 | if I make changes to lts.conf.. like disable automatic login for one thinclient.. it still logins automatically ?!?!
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| 05:33 | <Mava> or seems that i've made some very stupid logon script somewhere which still is on the run
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| 05:33 | man i smell bad also...
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| 05:51 | <Mava> yah..
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| 05:51 | why these are not standard locations or at least i'm not aware of this..
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| 09:58 | <Roasted> hmm
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| 09:58 | I find it interesting how thin and fat clients differ with ability to detect any file server, even if you're not on a domain
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| 09:59 | I may be eating my words. hold that thought... just thought of something...
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| 10:27 | <roasted> Okay... drawing a blank here... I have 1 fat client on my laptop as the edubuntu server. Previously my fat client test subjects would get internet via my laptop's (the server) wireless, but now I'm not getting it... what am I missing?
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| 11:15 | <roasted> How can I set up LTSP so it uses my home router (Linksys) as the DHCP server?
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| 11:36 | <muppis> roasted, just disable dhcpd from server and set required parameters to Linksys.
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| 11:36 | <roasted> What required parameters are you referring to?
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| 11:36 | <muppis> tftp settings mostly.
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| 11:36 | <roasted> where are they located?
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| 11:36 | I've only added windows dhcp to the mix, not a home router.
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| 11:37 | <muppis> In dhcpd.conf
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| 11:37 | <roasted> where is that located again?
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| 11:37 | <muppis> /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
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| 11:38 | <roasted> is there any documentation on what I am to change to the linksys?
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| 11:39 | <muppis> First check this: http://dd-wrt.com/site/support/router-database
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| 11:39 | <roasted> do I need dd-wrt on my router?
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| 11:39 | <muppis> Helps a lot, as dnsmasq used in dd-wrt is easy.
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| 11:39 | <roasted> can I make it work with my factory firmware on my WRT54G?
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| 11:41 | <muppis> I'm not familiart with it settings, but I think not, as original fw's quite restricted.
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| 11:41 | <roasted> bummer
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| 11:42 | I guess I went a little too far with my troubleshooting here.
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| 11:42 | I have a fat client (netbook) connected to my server (laptop) via cat5e line
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| 11:42 | but the fat client doesn't get internet access, even though my server (laptop) is on wireless via dhcp to my router.
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| 11:42 | <muppis> I'm using Buffalo's routers (based same chipset as Linksys ones) and got more stability and usability with dd-wrt.
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| 11:42 | <roasted> any idea why my fat client wouldn't get getting outbound access from my laptops wifi?
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| 11:44 | <muppis> Your laptop doesn't share the wifi connection to ethernet.
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| 11:45 | Look at here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ThinClientHowtoNAT
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| 11:46 | <roasted> if I change the IP of my LTSP server, and my LTSP server is not handling DHCP services, do I just change the IP in the interface file or does it need to be changed elsewhere too?
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| 11:47 | <muppis> You need change it also from DHCP -server so clients can found needed files.
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| 11:48 | <roasted> you're referring to /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
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| 11:48 | right
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| 11:48 | <muppis> Yes.
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| 11:48 | <roasted> do I just comment out the "range" part?
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| 11:49 | since the server wouldn't be doing IP handouts
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| 11:50 | <muppis> You need to that on real dhcp -server, as if you do not use LTSP -servers dhcpd, changing file in server doesn't have any effect.
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| 11:50 | <roasted> okay
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| 11:51 | for some reason my client isnt receiving an address now
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| 11:52 | nevermind. got it.
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| 11:52 | I just wonder if my fat clients werent getting outbound access cause my wired LAN with my server was 192.168.0.X and my linksys router uses 192.168.1.X
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| 11:54 | <muppis> Does fat's go thru server or directly via router?
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| 11:54 | via / to
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| 11:54 | <roasted> well I'm just doing a test environment here, so the fat client (netbook) connects directly to my server (laptop)
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| 11:54 | so you have
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| 11:54 | netbook ---> laptop (then laptop has wireless card for external access)
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| 11:55 | my laptop (server) had connectivity, but on the netbook when I tried to get on google and other sites,t it times out
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| 11:55 | <muppis> Ok, then you need enable NAT from server.
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| 11:56 | <roasted> oh so its a network device thing?
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| 11:56 | and not a config on my server (laptop)??
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| 11:56 | cause I did this at work and it worked fine, and it totally confused me...
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| 11:58 | <muppis> It's in configs of network device in server
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| 11:58 | <roasted> that makes no sense then
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| 11:58 | <muppis> Take a look at URL what I pasted.
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| 11:58 | <roasted> my laptop at work = worked
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| 11:58 | with a client connected to my laptop
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| 11:58 | yet here at home
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| 11:58 | doesn't work
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| 11:58 | same config on everything
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| 11:59 | <muppis> Also used wireless in work?
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| 11:59 | <roasted> yeah
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| 11:59 | I did a presentation at work with 3 laptops connected to mine
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| 11:59 | and my laptop had wireless
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| 11:59 | they might have used thin clients tho instead of fat
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| 11:59 | for some reason fat clients are such a headache with network services
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| 12:01 | <muppis> Well.. If you haven't configured any local apps in thins, they are all runned in server and thus uses server's connection directly. In fat everything is runned in client and acts like normal workstations.
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| 12:01 | <roasted> yeah
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| 12:01 | but there's something about fat clients that make them more difficult to work with network services, such as file servers, etc.
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| 12:02 | I've done several tests here at home that suggest it, along with integrating it at work.
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| 12:02 | that said, we're pumping more RAM in our servers and moving everybody to a thin image since fat requires them to authenticate several times just to do simple tasks.
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| 12:04 | <muppis> That's weird. Personally never used fat, but haven't hear that before either.
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| 12:04 | <roasted> we're also using a windows domain, which may be backwards to move people.
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| 12:04 | Most people I know integrate linux with their servers before clients.
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| 12:04 | we're doing it backwards. clients first, then servers.
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| 12:05 | <roasted> thin clients retain their connection since their chroot is part of the server, so they can go anywhere on any file server without issue
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| 12:05 | fat constantly drops its connection so we have to authenticate many times just to save libre office odcs, etc.
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| 12:05 | docs
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| 12:05 | so I'll probably go thin with local apps this week when I get my ram in
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| 12:05 | that way we can have a more seamless integration and also utilize some local processing for certain apps like firefox, etc.
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| 12:07 | Im going to try a fresh install of edubuntu and see whats up with this
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| 12:07 | cause even with the settings changed It doesnt allow my fat image to get external internet access
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| 12:09 | <muppis> Odd.
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| 12:10 | <roasted> ha
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| 12:10 | just switched back to my thin image
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| 12:10 | what's up google.com. :P
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| 12:11 | <muppis> Open local xterm and then try ping google.com, what happens?
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| 12:11 | ltsp-localapps xterm
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| 12:12 | <roasted> if I ping anything in terminal on the fat client, nothing happens.
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| 12:12 | I can't ping my gateway, nothing.
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| 12:12 | <muppis> But in thin.
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| 12:12 | <roasted> even if I run ifconfig it errors out at soem sbin thing
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| 12:12 | oh it works fine
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| 12:12 | thin = everything works
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| 12:13 | ping from terminal, ping server, gateway, etc
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| 12:13 | external web sites, you name it
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| 12:14 | <muppis> Sure you're pinging from local in thin? (Because it sounds really odd to me if in thin works but not in fat.)
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| 12:15 | <roasted> applications - accessories - terminal
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| 12:15 | ping www.google.com
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| 12:15 | is that what you're asking?
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| 12:16 | <muppis> Yes. If you that in thin, it is done in server by default.
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| 12:16 | <roasted> that's what I did on both fat AND thin.
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| 12:16 | fat failed
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| 12:16 | thin succeeded
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| 12:16 | on the netbook, that is, whcih is my client
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| 12:16 | <muppis> The try this: Open terminal as usual, then first this: ltsp-localapps xterm
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| 12:17 | <roasted> on my thin client
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| 12:17 | right
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| 12:17 | <muppis> It should open second terminal and try pinging from there.
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| 12:19 | <roasted> haha
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| 12:19 | it failed
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| 12:19 | <muppis> As I assumed.
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| 12:19 | <roasted> it works in regular term, but not in ltsp-localapps xterm
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| 12:19 | what's that mean?
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| 12:19 | did I set something up wrong?
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| 12:19 | <muppis> No.
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| 12:20 | It is default behaviour.
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| 12:20 | <roasted> in a production environment, *should* it succeed?
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| 12:20 | or should I be happy it failed?
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| 12:21 | <muppis> Well. As in default thin installation, nothing is runned locally so there is no need to enable NAT by default.
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| 12:22 | As you have set mostly things correctly, look steps 4 and 5 from here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ThinClientHowtoNAT
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| 12:23 | And step 6, ofcourse.
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| 12:24 | <roasted> I'm trying to think out loud here with this documentation. I wonder if I can somehow salvage the fat clients we have and make them work more efficiently.
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| 12:24 | But since that is a windows domain environment, I am doubtful.
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| 12:25 | <muppis> I'm always doubtful in Windows environment. ;)
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| 12:26 | <roasted> I hear ya there.
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| 12:26 | I just thought for sure I was running FAT on the 3 demo pcs when I did my presentation
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| 12:26 | and they had external access
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| 12:26 | maybe they were thin and I didnt realize it
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| 12:27 | in fact it's possible they were thin because I don't recall messing with the chroot... I thought I just installed a bunch of crap and since it was thin, it just showed up on the clients.
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| 12:27 | <muppis> :)
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| 12:27 | <roasted> guess I better do some homework on local apps
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| 12:27 | Each of our clients have 896 ram, be ncie if they could use it and give the server a bit of a break when I swap them to thin!
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| 12:29 | <muppis> With that amount of ram per client, you should just set up few local apps (like Firefox and Libre) and be happy ever after.
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| 12:29 | <roasted> that's what my plan is
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| 12:29 | I never touched local apps before tho
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| 12:29 | so hopefully it's easy to set up
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| 12:29 | I hear enough talk about it I would think it is
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| 12:31 | <muppis> Basic Firefox+Flash and Libre is easy, but if you need some special hw, it can get tricky.
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| 12:31 | <roasted> hardware - hw?
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| 12:31 | <muppis> Yes.
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| 12:31 | <roasted> nothing is coming to mind that we would need
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| 12:31 | <muppis> Then you should be fine.
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| 12:32 | <roasted> to install local apps do I just sudo chroot into it?
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| 12:32 | and install them as if I'm in a fat image?
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| 12:32 | <muppis> Yes.
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| 12:33 | <roasted> so by default any apps in the thin chroot = local apps
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| 12:33 | <muppis> To make sure, mount bind /dev and /proc before chroot.
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| 12:33 | <roasted> mount proc proc /proc ??
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| 12:34 | <muppis> You can do that after chroot.
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| 12:34 | <roasted> what command would I run for dev?
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| 12:34 | for documentation purposes
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| 12:34 | <muppis> Let me check.
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| 12:36 | mount -t devtmpfs none /dev/
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| 12:36 | Last message repeated 1 time(s). | |
| 12:36 | <muppis> | |
| 12:36 | mount -t proc none /proc
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| 12:36 | <roasted> not to sound like an idiot
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| 12:36 | but what's the point?
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| 12:36 | what do they do?
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| 12:37 | <muppis> They just enable logging for apt/dpkg.
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| 12:37 | <roasted> so if I forget to do that, is it the end of the world?
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| 12:38 | <muppis> Nope, dpkg just like nag about it.
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| 12:38 | <roasted> ah okay
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| 12:38 | bro I appreciate your help
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| 12:38 | I'm too tired to test it now but I'm documenting it quick
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| 12:38 | <muppis> No problem.
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| 12:38 | <roasted> then I gotta catch me a well needed nap
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| 12:39 | <muppis> I should also get to the bed.
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| 12:39 | <roasted> not bedtime here. its 345 PM :P
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| 12:39 | Im just sleep deprived from a crazy work week.
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| 12:40 | <muppis> 10:39pm.
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| 12:40 | <roasted> can you think of any areas where local apps gets tricky?
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| 12:40 | like an example to watch out for
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| 12:41 | <muppis> Opening files directly from Firefox.
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| 12:42 | <roasted> like, links?
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| 12:42 | or opening an excel attachment or something?
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| 12:42 | <muppis> Like opening attachments, yes.
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| 12:43 | <roasted> what exactly happens?
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| 12:43 | does it error out or simply not function?
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| 12:43 | <muppis> But if you install Libre and evince to chroot, then office docs and pdf's are handled by them.
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| 12:43 | <roasted> because this may be an area that we deal with
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| 12:43 | evince...
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| 12:43 | what is evince
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| 12:43 | <muppis> Document viewer.
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| 12:44 | <roasted> oh, well I just use adobe reader on ubuntu
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| 12:44 | same job, I assume
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| 12:44 | <muppis> Yes,
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| 12:44 | <roasted> how can I remedy the firefox thing?
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| 12:44 | <muppis> Evince is just multipurpose.
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| 12:44 | <roasted> opening files, etc
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| 12:44 | <NeonLicht> I use MuPDF, which is many, many, many times as fast as Adobe reader.
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| 12:44 | <roasted> I only use adobe reader for consistency, since we have reader on windows machines too
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| 12:44 | <NeonLicht> Many times faster.
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| 12:45 | <roasted> I don't prefer it.
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| 12:45 | I just like to stick to 1 thing as much as possible, otherwise our students get confused.
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| 12:45 | some of them get confused, at least.
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| 12:45 | <muppis> They need to be saved before opening.
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| 12:45 | <roasted> ohh
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| 12:45 | so we cant OPEN attachments
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| 12:45 | but we can easily SAVE attachments
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| 12:45 | without issue
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| 12:45 | <NeonLicht> roasted, try MuPDF :)
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| 12:46 | <roasted> am I right?
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| 12:46 | NeonLicht, thanks
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| 12:46 | <muppis> Cannot open diretly to associated app, but saving it and opening via Nautilus is a workaround.
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| 12:48 | <roasted> so if I try to open a .XLS, it'll error out (or will it even error out??). But if I save it and reopen it, it'll openi n libre office without issue. right?
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| 12:49 | <muppis> It doesn't even error, as Firefox can't found mime for it so it suggest only saving it. But if you install LIbe to chroot, mime info will exists and then Firefox can open it directly to Libre.
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| 12:50 | *Libre..
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| 12:50 | <roasted> ahh okay
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| 12:50 | that's awesome though
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| 12:50 | if it gave you the option but errored out, that'd be an issue
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| 12:51 | <muppis> You can think thin with local apps like stripped fat.
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| 12:54 | But gotta go. Things to do before sleep and already falling asleep.. See you around.
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| 12:54 | <roasted> thanks bro
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| 12:54 | have a good one
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| 12:54 | <muppis> Be welcomed. Thanks.
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| 16:43 | <roasted> I copied my sources.list and I'm trying to apt-get update, but I'm getting a slew of errors. Err http://source.location Temporary Failure resolving, etc.
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| 16:44 | I'm on a thin client image
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| 16:44 | <highvoltage> roasted: you should copy your /etc/resolv.conf file too
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| 16:45 | <roasted> wait
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| 16:45 | am I to update he image after I copy the sources list?
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| 16:45 | <highvoltage> any time before you try to do an apt-get update
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| 16:45 | <roasted> so I failed
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| 16:45 | ha
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| 16:52 | highvoltage, look at you being a genius
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| 16:53 | missing a pubkey though. hmm.
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| 17:18 | <roasted> so the recommended fix for getting this pubkey fixed didnt work. Is it something about this being a thin image?
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| 17:27 | cancel that..
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| 17:29 | <roasted> still getting errors tho
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| 17:30 | anytime I install something to he thin chroot I get dependency errors it seems.
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| 17:30 | even if I install them manually, E: Sub process returned an error code.
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| 17:30 | maybe I'll just scrap localapps and spend the dough for more ram :(
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| 17:32 | <Bas__> Hi! someone has worked with LTSP CLuster?
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| 17:34 | I need a little help with the application server configuration in LTSP-Cluster
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| 17:41 | log on to a thin client with the user is created in the application server or server control??
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| 17:49 | <roasted> So wait - to use local apps, I need to launch them with ltsp-localapps firefox? By opening "firefox" in apps-internet-firefox I'm still using the server?
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| 17:52 | <NeonLicht> You can add entries for local apps in the menus, too.
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| 17:52 | <roasted> oh
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| 17:52 | do I just edit the launcher?
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| 17:56 | <vagrantc> roasted: install ltsp-docs, and read the manpage for lts.conf ... LOCAL_APPS_MENU* parameters are what you're looking for
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| 18:00 | <roasted> where does ltsp-docs install to?
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| 18:13 | <vagrantc> ?
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| 18:13 | on the server, on the thin client ... whereever you want it installed
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| 18:13 | the manpages go in the place manpages usually go ... other docs in /usr/share/docs
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| 18:17 | <Bas__> none has worked with LTSP-Cluster?
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| 18:21 | <roasted> vagrantc, does the local apps menu entry only override when there's apps on the chroot?
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| 18:21 | like if I have that entry as true, and I have firefox on the server but not on the chroot, will it skip right to he server and launch from server?
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| 18:22 | <vagrantc> roasted: it only changes menu entries for things installed in the chroot
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| 18:23 | <roasted> does it do it on the fly? If I add more things to the chroot, would it change them as well?
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| 18:24 | <vagrantc> yes
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| 18:25 | LOCAL_APPS_MENU=true
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| 18:25 | <roasted> got it
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| 18:25 | I just can't figure out what's up with my error when I install things in chroot
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| 18:38 | time to try a new image
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| 19:00 | with the new image I got local apps to work with firefox as my test bed. It looks like Im running debian from 2005 though, as if it didnt pull my theme settings with it. Any way to adopt those settings with a local app?
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| 19:03 | not to mention I'm not able to get on any web sites with firefox as the local app. they just time out. I can ping externally just fine though. But firefox working from the server = just fine.
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| 19:03 | hmm...
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| 19:13 | <vagrantc> firewall allows ping but not other traffic through?
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| 19:14 | <roasted> firewall makes no sense though
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| 19:14 | if it was the firewall, it'd be all or nothing
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| 19:14 | keep in mind, it works if I use firefox from the server. but if I use it as a local app, it just spins and spins when I try to hit google or whatever site
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| 19:28 | <vagrantc> no, firewalls can allow whatever traffic in and out they want
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| 19:29 | <roasted> well
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| 19:30 | I'm not running a firewall. This is a vanilla edubuntu install as of 3 hours ago
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| 19:30 | like I said, firefox runs fine if its ran from the server, OR ran from the client as a fat client. If I run firefox as a local app on a thin client, no dice. It's strange.
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| 19:31 | <vagrantc> ah, it works as a fat client ...
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| 19:31 | there should be no difference between fat clients and local apps
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| 19:31 | <roasted> hm
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| 19:31 | so why am I striking out here...
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| 19:31 | <vagrantc> some people have all the luck
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| 19:32 | <roasted> I've had 0, literally, 0 issues with true thin clients on LTSP.
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| 19:32 | fat and localapps on the other hand
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| 19:32 | eh
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| 19:32 | I'm trying to test this as MUCH as humanly possible, because I'm the one that needs to support it wherever it goes at work.
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| 19:32 | I'm just not sure I can deploy localapps or fat clients...
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| 19:33 | hold that thought
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| 19:33 | I just rebooted the client, again, and this time I have my theme and I have google
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| 19:34 | nevermind
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| 19:34 | just closed firefox, reopened it, it's spinning, no theme
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| 19:35 | I removed LOCAL_APPS_MENU so I can use firefox from server + local. Am I doing it right to launch firefox as local? ltsp-localapps firefox
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| 19:36 | <vagrantc> that should work, though firefox is a bit tricky ... in that sometimes processes are running on the server, and even if you launch them from the client, if there are lingering background processes on the server, it will (by way of your home directory) actually start new processes on the server.
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| 19:37 | the exact details of how it works aren't clear to me, and i may have the exact details wrong ... but basically firefox is too clever for it's own good.
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| 19:37 | <roasted> see, things like this just make me see no value in localapps for our environment.
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| 19:37 | It's nothing against ltsp at all, but if the apps won't behave as localapps, I'm not sure I can utilize them.
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| 19:37 | and considering each app is SO different, I have to watch what I do with each one.
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| 19:38 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 19:38 | <roasted> I just get confused with "if it works as fat, it'll work as local" when it clearly doesn't. :(
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| 19:40 | <vagrantc> that is baffling to all of us. never heard of that sort of problem before.
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| 19:43 | <roasted> Let me just recap what I did...
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| 19:44 | Installed Edubuntu - all updates - added thin client chroot - logged in as thin client chroot - installed firefox via apt-get install firefox as well as flashplugin-nonfree. Updated the chroot and added LOCAL_APPS=True in lts.conf under default. I have a cat5e line in between my netbook and laptop. netbook is client. laptop is server. Network booted netbook, logged in as a different local user than my laptop, opened firefox. Worked fine.
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| 19:44 | Opened terminal, ran ltsp-localapps firefox. Comes up with a stripped theme and won't hit any web sites.
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| 00:00 | --- Sun Apr 3 2011 | |