IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 May 2007 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:35 | <highvoltage> /wi/win 14
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| 05:20 | <MM2> My HP vectra (desktop) says PXE-T04: missing mode when booting client for edubuntu
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| 06:02 | <envite> Hello all from Spain
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| 06:02 | Hola a todos desde España
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| 06:05 | <cliebow> envite Hola!!
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| 06:22 | <envite> re
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| 06:44 | <ogra> jammcq, i can even on an XDMCP connection see how the e2300 draws the windows ... i think its a general slowness thing with it ... apart from that the shielding is crap, i have diagonal stipes flickering across the screen with the 50Hz of german power lines ...
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| 06:46 | <envite> ogra: I've used the 2300
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| 06:46 | * kaminski-ltsp-br is back | |
| 06:46 | <kaminski-ltsp-br> ;)
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| 06:46 | <envite> I changed the BIOS settings and that fastered it a bit
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| 06:47 | <ogra> envite, which ones ?
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| 06:47 | <envite> ogra: a moment
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| 06:47 | <ogra> i know its slow but i didnt expect it to be *that* slow
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| 06:48 | <envite> BIOS Poner memoria compartida (Shared Graphics Memory) a 64M
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| 06:48 | Quizá sea demasiado, pero hemos comprobado que va bien. --Envite 15:16 4 abr 2007 (CEST) Poner ventana gráfica (Graphics Memory Win) a 64M
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| 06:48 | Su límite es lo establecido en la anterior. Poner tarjeta gráfica de PCI a AGP Poner velocidad de bus ISA a 33.3
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| 06:48 | <ogra> scrolling firefox is no fun if you want it to stop at the right position
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| 06:48 | <envite> well, I'll translate
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| 06:48 | BIOS Shared Graphics Memory to 64M
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| 06:48 | BIOS Graphics Memory Win to 64M
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| 06:49 | BIOS Graphics Adapter mode from PCI to AGP
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| 06:49 | BIOS change ISA bus speed to 33.3
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| 06:49 | that four things is what I did
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| 06:49 | and I noted significant speedup
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| 06:49 | <ogra> ok, i'll try
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| 06:50 | i noticed booting with nolapic and noacip helps a bit
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| 06:50 | but not significantly enough
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| 06:50 | lets see what the bios does
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| 06:52 | <envite> the actual graphics memory is very low in factory default settings
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| 06:54 | <ogra> yeah
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| 06:54 | and the ISA bus is set to 8Mhz
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| 06:55 | <envite> it must not affect, but it does not affect
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| 06:56 | maybe slowing the isa bus slows everything in the cpu?
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| 06:58 | <ogra> yeah, might be ... i'm just stopwatching a boot now, lets see if we get under 3 mins
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| 06:58 | we sat in sevilla for one week ... your brightest ltsp programmers came together to fix it ...
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| 06:59 | do you think one of us ever thought to look into the bios
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| 06:59 | * ogra shakes his head | |
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| 07:00 | <envite> that's worth killing you all
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| 07:01 | Agustin Benito (my commander in chief) was there in Sevilla and he's telling me that he tell you all to look at the BIOS
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| 07:01 | the mEDUXa guy
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| 07:01 | hahahahahahahahahahahaha
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| 07:01 | <ogra> i dont remember that
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| 07:01 | well, 3:28 is no improvement
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| 07:01 | <envite> not at booting
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| 07:01 | but I noted it while running graphical pps
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| 07:02 | <ogra> even though i'm using the old and slow ldm ... the new one should shove off 30 secs here
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| 07:02 | but thats still 3 mins ..
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| 07:02 | <envite> it is not the same to wait 60s for OpenOffice to open than to wait 30s
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| 07:03 | <ogra> indeed
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| 07:03 | but lsp 4.2 does it under one minute
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| 07:03 | <jammcq> ogra: even general running isn't slow in ltsp-4.2
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| 07:03 | it boots faster, it runs faster, I just don't understand what ltsp-5 is doing to it, to make it so slow
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| 07:04 | <ogra> well, the bios change made it a bit more snappy on the desktop
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| 07:04 | <highvoltage> *sigh*
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| 07:04 | <ogra> but only minimally
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| 07:05 | <ogra> the scrolling is still delayed ... but at least usable
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| 07:05 | <envite> ok
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| 07:05 | <jammcq> envite: I did try the bios settings earlier, and didn't notice a significant improvement
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| 07:05 | when I asked Agustin to help, he said he knew of some improvements, but didn't have the specifics and he said he'd get back to me
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| 07:05 | <envite> jammcq: I didn't noted it at boot, but I really noted it at desktop working
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| 07:05 | <ogra> the nolapic and noacpi switches gave me about 15 secs bootime
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| 07:06 | <jammcq> ogra: "saved" 15 secs?
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| 07:06 | <ogra> from 3:45 to 3:30
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| 07:06 | <jammcq> ok, but boot again, we noticed inconsistencies in boot times
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| 07:06 | <ogra> i noticed that acpi is off in the bios let me enable it and drop the noacpi switch now
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| 07:11 | <jsgotangco> pardon my ignorance and butting in, but what is an e2300?
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| 07:12 | <envite> e2300 is a shorthand name for
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| 07:12 | ebox e2300
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| 07:13 | a thin client
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| 07:13 | <jsgotangco> ahhh ive heard of the ebox
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| 07:13 | thanks :D
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| 07:15 | <envite> http://www.norhtec.com/products/mcjr/index.html
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| 07:16 | <cliebow_> envite:i pursued those some..cost so much to get em here..to Maine at least
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| 07:17 | <envite> I do not buy them there, too
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| 07:17 | I buy at EPATec
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| 07:17 | a Spain-Germany based reseller
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| 07:17 | and, btw
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| 07:17 | i'm not happy with them
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| 07:18 | <jsgotangco> it looks nice
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| 07:18 | <envite> it's nice, but slow :D
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| 07:19 | <cliebow_> slow booting..in ltsp5?
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| 07:19 | <envite> slow in everything, in everyversion
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| 07:20 | ogra: yours is a Vortex or a SiS ?
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| 07:20 | <ogra> sis
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| 07:20 | <cliebow_> wierd..ive use stuff as downwardly mobile as macintosh 66 meg successfully
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| 07:20 | <envite> heh
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| 07:20 | like mine
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| 07:20 | <jammcq> it's 200Mhz, so it's obviously going to be slower than the newer 500+ Mhz clients. But it's quite useable
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| 07:20 | envite: Vortex and Sis are the same thing
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| 07:20 | "Vortex" is a marketing name
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| 07:20 | the chips are all made by SiS
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| 07:21 | <envite> well, but the difference is that
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| 07:21 | <ogra> *all* ... tsk ... isnt that only one chip emulating all the others ?
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| 07:21 | <envite> if it says Vortex
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| 07:22 | <jammcq> in the bios, it says 'Vortex'. that's just a revision issue
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| 07:22 | the newer units say 'Vortex' when you go into the bios, the older ones don't say that
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| 07:22 | <envite> it has other chips in internal
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| 07:22 | <jammcq> and the unit ogra has is indeed a 'Vortex'
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| 07:22 | <envite> that if it says SiS
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| 07:22 | for example, the soundcard
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| 07:23 | <ogra> 3:42 ... with acpi on and noacpi dropped from the kernel line
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| 07:23 | no big change ...
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| 07:23 | <jammcq> I've got 1 old unit and 2 new units. But, I gave away the 2 newer units to sbalneav and ogra
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| 07:23 | I'll have lots more of the newer units by the end of the month
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| 07:23 | * ogra starts to ignore +/- 15secs ..... | |
| 07:23 | <jammcq> ogra: yeah, that's what I started doing too.
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| 07:24 | ogra: how about we find a CPU benchmarking program, and compare how it runs between 4.2 and 5.0 ?
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| 07:24 | <ogra> same for memory access times
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| 07:24 | <jammcq> maybe there's something the ubuntu kernel or the klibc is doing to the cpu that is messing it up
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| 07:25 | * jammcq can't believe he didn't think of that earlier | |
| 07:25 | <ogra> well, our probs start after switching to the nfs root ... i start to think that our problem isnt in the initramfs ...
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| 07:25 | <jammcq> i start to think that I don't know what to think
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| 07:26 | <ogra> we use the modules from the nfsroot after switching over ...
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| 07:26 | probably thats worth a look
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| 07:26 | <jammcq> well, it might rule something out
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| 07:27 | * jammcq needs to pack up and head to the office | |
| 07:27 | <ogra> lets me see i'll build an initramfs with all modules ...
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| 07:27 | <jammcq> what will that prove?
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| 07:28 | <highvoltage> has anyone tried LTSP 5.0 on another 200mhz machine?
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| 07:28 | <jammcq> it seems 200Mhz machines are hard to find these days
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| 07:28 | <cliebow_> hymmmm.
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| 07:28 | <jammcq> ciao
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| 07:29 | <ogra> the slowest i have ever tried was 300Mhz which was slow but dint take 3 mins to boot ...
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| 07:36 | <cliebow_> jammcq:any link to your videoconf with mark and ogra?
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| 07:38 | <ogra> was that recorded ?
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| 07:45 | <cliebow_> here i am all by myself...talking to myself
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| 07:47 | <ogra> hmm, k ... dropping sound, localdev, nbd and going with a static xorg.conf cuts off 1min
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| 07:48 | <cliebow_> out of how many?
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| 07:49 | <ogra> 2:44 instead of 3:44
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| 07:49 | trying with XDMCP now
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| 07:49 | <cliebow_> Wow:quite a diff
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| 07:49 | <ogra> that should get us to 2min
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| 07:49 | indeed
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| 07:49 | the X autodetection takes a lot of time
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| 07:50 | nbd negotiation as well ... i'd love to move that part past ldm, but that would indeed defeat the pupose of having network swap
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| 07:51 | <highvoltage> cliebow_: I taped the mug-video session, but willvdl has my camera, I'm only getting it from him in two weeks :/
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| 07:51 | <ogra> 1:52 with XDMCP
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| 07:51 | <highvoltage> wow @ 1:52
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| 07:52 | <ogra> well
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| 07:52 | with no features at all
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| 07:52 | no swap, no sound, no localdev no ssh
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| 07:52 | <highvoltage> yes :/
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| 07:52 | <ogra> and static xorg.conf
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| 07:52 | which i'm fine with as a workaround
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| 07:52 | we'd just need to document it
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| 07:53 | and since the hw is the same everywhere we could provide the matching file
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| 07:55 | <ogra> hmm, looks like the soundcard isnt supported ayway
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| 07:55 | <ogra> and localdev wont work on XDMCP ...
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| 07:56 | and 128M are enough to go without nbd swap
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| 07:57 | highvoltage, btw, i got a full udb boot here now ...
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| 07:57 | *udp
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| 07:57 | the numbers are ummm, intresting ...
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| 07:57 | tcp 3.6M/s , real: 28.656s
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| 07:57 | <highvoltage> ogra: did the udp booting make a perfomance difference?
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| 07:57 | <ogra> udp 2.4M/s , real: 42.763s
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| 07:57 | yes
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| 07:58 | but in a totally unexpected way
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| 07:58 | <highvoltage> hmmm... interesting
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| 07:58 | <ogra> i tested tens of boots, the numbers are always similar
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| 07:58 | i also tested with the classmate
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| 07:58 | <highvoltage> I wonder if something in Ubuntu's networking is just broken.
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| 07:58 | <ogra> udp 10.9M/s , real: 9.420s
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| 07:58 | tcp 11.6M/s , real: 8.887s
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| 07:59 | i was expecting ipv6 to be in the way, but blacklisting that didnt help wither
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| 07:59 | *either
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| 08:07 | <davidj> jammcq: Good morning.
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| 08:09 | <jammcq> davidj: howdie
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| 08:09 | davidj: you gonna be around for a bit?
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| 08:09 | <davidj> How was Spain?
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| 08:10 | freet15 has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:10 | <davidj> Yes, I'll be in the office until 11:00; it's 9:02 now.
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| 08:10 | <bellis> If I did the gdm install inside of the thinclient directory, is going back to ldm as simple as changing the default-display-manager in /etc/X11?
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| 08:10 | <jammcq> spain was great. right now i'm in a meeting, trying to figure out how to get back on track
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| 08:10 | so, i'll be away from keyboard for a bit
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| 08:10 | <davidj> 'k
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| 08:11 | ogra: Have you determined that the problem is definitely in the networking?
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| 08:11 | <ogra> jammcq, dropping all features, using a static xorg.conf and XDMCP results in ~1:50
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| 08:12 | davidj, i'm just discussing with the kernel team
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| 08:12 | <davidj> I know.
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| 08:12 | I have another possible explanation you might consider.
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| 08:12 | <ogra> shoot
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| 08:13 | jammcq, did you say that thing has 128M ?
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| 08:13 | i only see 64 in top
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| 08:13 | <davidj> A few years ago there was a bug in grep that caused it to run about 10x slower if you were using UTF-8.
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| 08:13 | I wonder if it might have snuck back in ;-)
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| 08:14 | <ogra> well, such stuff should be sorted nowadays ... and we dont use grep anywhere iirc
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| 08:14 | <davidj> No, not grep, but there are a few other things that get used.
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| 08:14 | Just a thought, I haven't examined anything yet.
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| 08:16 | <ogra> yep, i'll look into that if i dont find other stuff ... thanks for the suggestion
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| 08:16 | <davidj> np
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| 08:17 | <ogra> jammcq, i see dd eating 95% CPU ...
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| 08:28 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:31 | <ogra> !s
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| 08:31 | <ltspbot> ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:31 | <sbalneav> Morning ogra!
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| 08:31 | <ogra> jammcq, do you have a 4.2 kernel and module set somewhere i can drop into our chroot ?
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| 08:31 | they want to see if there is any difference using it in ltsp5
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| 08:32 | a tarred up /lib/modules and /boot would do i guess
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| 08:41 | <davidj> Hey, Scotty
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| 08:42 | <sbalneav> Hello davidj!
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| 08:42 | How's it going?
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| 08:42 | <davidj> Not bad at all, my clients have kept me busy lately.
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| 08:43 | And you?
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| 08:43 | ogra: Jim said he would be in a meeting for a bit.
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| 08:44 | sbalneav: Have a good time in Spain?
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| 08:44 | <sbalneav> Well, I was sick for a large part of it, but overall, I got done what I wanted, so I was happy!
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| 08:47 | <ogra> davidj, thats fine, i'm not in a hurry :)
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| 08:51 | <petre> morning all
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| 08:55 | <mhterres> morning
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| 08:58 | <davidj> sbalneav: I'm sorry you were sick, that's never fun.
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| 08:59 | <ogra> he looked scary ...
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| 09:10 | <davidj> ogra: He always looks scary ;-)
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| 09:10 | <ogra> heh
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| 09:18 | <Guaraldo> ai, all
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| 09:18 | <davidj> When I was a student in Madrid, I remember that it took me a while to get used to the food when I got back to the US
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| 09:20 | <Guaraldo> davidj: Well... I prefer my Brazilian food... :-D Churrasco, feijoada and my mom's Lasanha! UAU!!!
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| 09:20 | * Guaraldo is a kind of hangry! | |
| 09:20 | <cliebow_> ogra i should have a chroot and kernel..
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| 09:21 | <Guaraldo> Maybe is becouse I need to eat now!
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| 09:21 | <ogra> cliebow, can you put it somewhere i can download it ?
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| 09:21 | <cliebow_> just looking
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| 09:21 | 169.244.3.137/
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| 09:22 | <ogra> hmm, ok, running from a liveCD and mouning the nfsroot in /mnt doesnt give any better results for the timing
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| 09:22 | <Guaraldo> !ltsppaste
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| 09:22 | <ltspbot> Guaraldo: Error: "ltsppaste" is not a valid command.
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| 09:22 | <cliebow_> ltsp4.2.tar.gz
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| 09:22 | <Guaraldo> !ltsppbot
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| 09:22 | <ltspbot> Guaraldo: Error: "ltsppbot" is not a valid command.
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| 09:22 | <cliebow_> vmlinuz-2.6.16.1-ltsp-2.gz
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| 09:23 | <ogra> cliebow, oh, thats a complete chroot :)
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| 09:23 | <cliebow_> gunzip the kernel
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| 09:23 | <ogra> willdo
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| 09:24 | <cliebow_> ican get you /lib/modules and /boot if necessary
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| 09:27 | <ogra> well, having the whole 4.2 might help
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| 09:27 | <cliebow_> k
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| 09:27 | <jammcq> ogra: any progress?
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| 09:27 | <ogra> jammcq, only that running it from the liveCD doesnt change the numbers
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| 09:28 | <jammcq> hmm
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| 09:28 | <ogra> jammcq, also discussions with the kernel team point me to userspace rather than the kernel
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| 09:28 | <jammcq> sbalneav: any idea of a cpu benchmarking program that we could run on both ltsp-4.2 and ltsp-5, to compare performance?
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| 09:28 | <sbalneav> Hmm
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| 09:28 | <jammcq> ogra: doesn't suprise me that kernel guys would point you to userspace
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| 09:28 | <ogra> i'm waiting for th etgz coming down the drain and will test with 4.2 kernel now
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| 09:28 | * sbalneav thinks | |
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| 09:29 | <sbalneav> dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/null bs=1024K count=1 might be something of a test, but mainly math.
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| 09:29 | Ohh,
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| 09:29 | how about calculating MD5 sums on something
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| 09:30 | something on the ramdisk, and something on the nfs root.
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| 09:30 | <ogra> jammcq, but clearly the dd is eating up all CPU while dding
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| 09:30 | seems everyhing gets piped through the CPU
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| 09:31 | sbalneav, the first one is what we're doing sincwe sevilla ... (with a 100M testfile from the nfsroot)
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| 09:31 | instead of /dev/random
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| 09:31 | <sbalneav> You've been doing md5 sums already?
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| 09:31 | <ogra> no, i'm concentrating on nfs for now
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| 09:32 | <jammcq> md5sum seems interesting, but i'd want it statically linked, so we can run the exact same binary on both versions of LTSP, and be assured that it's doing the same thing
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| 09:37 | <joebaker> ogra: that slow ISA bus sounds suspicious. Maybe there is some way that you can identify and disable the peripherals on the ISA bus? If it's Ethernet you're probably in a world of hurt. Maybe there's something in the newer kernels that probe/interact with the ISA bus differently than before.
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| 09:38 | <ogra> gah, can build an initramfs ... udev complains
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| 09:38 | *cant
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| 09:38 | wasnt there a 2.6.18 kernel for 4.2 somewhere ?
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| 09:38 | udev wants at least .17
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| 09:39 | joebaker, well, i dont think its really any bios setting since we compared both with the same settings in sevilla
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| 09:39 | <cliebow_> 2.6.17.8..but it was wonky
| |
| 09:39 | i cann tar gzip that if you like..i think
| |
| 09:40 | heh..scratch the tar
| |
| 09:40 | <jammcq> 2.6.17.8 should be just fine
| |
| 09:41 | <ogra> ok, so give me the /lib/modules path and vmlinuz
| |
| 09:41 | <cliebow_> jammcq:ohh it was just one ethernet card that whined..
| |
| 09:41 | k..lemme look
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| 09:41 | vagrantc has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:41 | <ogra> hmm, the e2300 has a realtek card....
| |
| 09:42 | <joebaker> It sounds like somebody must have a ton of this model out there. Maybe the LinuxBios.org project people could lend a hand?
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| 09:42 | <ogra> vagrantc, !
| |
| 09:42 | <vagrantc> ogra: hi
| |
| 09:42 | <jammcq> vagrantc: hey
| |
| 09:42 | * vagrantc is in madrid | |
| 09:42 | <jammcq> oooh
| |
| 09:42 | beautiful city
| |
| 09:42 | <ogra> found a hostel ?
| |
| 09:42 | or sitting in an icafe
| |
| 09:43 | <vagrantc> yes, though it requires WEP which my card doesn't support :(
| |
| 09:43 | or, i can't figure out how to get it to work
| |
| 09:43 | <ogra> bah
| |
| 09:43 | <vagrantc> so i'm using corey's computer now
| |
| 09:43 | <cliebow_> so smae ip addy/2.6.17.8-ltsp-1.gz
| |
| 09:44 | <ogra> ok, got that one
| |
| 09:45 | now the modules and i'm fine
| |
| 09:46 | <cliebow_> 2.6.17.8-ltsp-1.tar.gz
| |
| 09:46 | not there yet
| |
| 09:46 | <ogra> ok
| |
| 09:46 | <cliebow_> now itis
| |
| 09:52 | <ogra> bah
| |
| 09:53 | doesnt want to boot
| |
| 09:55 | root@laptop:/# /etc/kernel/postinst.d/ltsp-update-kernels
| |
| 09:55 | /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.16.1-ltsp-2: not a Linux kernel image
| |
| 09:55 | /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.17.8-ltsp-1: not a Linux kernel image
| |
| 09:55 | vagrantc, ?
| |
| 09:55 | aha
| |
| 09:55 | ogra@laptop:/opt/ltsp/i386/boot$ file vmlinuz-2.6.17.8-ltsp-1
| |
| 09:55 | vmlinuz-2.6.17.8-ltsp-1: Netboot image, unknown mode
| |
| 09:55 | <cliebow_> aha?
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| 09:55 | <vagrantc> hrm.
| |
| 09:55 | <cliebow_> ohh
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| 09:56 | <ogra> did you send me an etherboot image ?
| |
| 09:56 | ogra@laptop:/opt/ltsp/i386/boot$ file vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-386
| |
| 09:56 | vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-386: Linux kernel x86 boot executable RO-rootFS, root_dev 0x6801, swap_dev 0x1, Normal VGA
| |
| 09:56 | <cliebow_> yeah... i guess so..
| |
| 09:57 | i have a bzImage-2.6.17.8
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| 09:58 | <ogra> that might help ... check what file thinks it is
| |
| 09:58 | <vagrantc> still doing speed testing of alternate kernels?
| |
| 09:58 | <ogra> yep
| |
| 09:58 | well, i'm at the point with the kernel team where they start to poit at userspace saying "not our fault"
| |
| 09:59 | mhterres has left #ltsp | |
| 09:59 | mhterres has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:59 | <vagrantc> but it takes forever to even get to loading anything in userspace
| |
| 09:59 | <cliebow_> with file bz--> x86 bootsector
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| 10:00 | <ogra> hmm
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| 10:00 | <cliebow_> clearly for usde with pxe
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| 10:00 | <ogra> vagrantc, well, i get down to 1.5min with disabling everything and using a static xorg.conf
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| 10:00 | <vagrantc> forever == longer than with ltsp 4.2
| |
| 10:00 | <ogra> yeah
| |
| 10:00 | still more than 4.2
| |
| 10:02 | but i'd be happy with 1.5min for the e2300 (sound wont work anyway, localdev starts after ltsp-client) ... if there wasnt that general slowness
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| 10:02 | <bellis> ogra, based on the results from file, that is a binary kernel file
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| 10:02 | <ogra> bellis, which doesnt help me, i need something that works with initramfs-tools
| |
| 10:03 | its likely very picky about that
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| 10:03 | petre has quit IRC | |
| 10:03 | petre has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:05 | <ogra> cliebow, can you put it up ?
| |
| 10:05 | <cliebow_> sure
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| 10:06 | meduxa has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:07 | <cliebow_> bzImage-2.6.17.8-ltsp-q.gz
| |
| 10:07 | whoops
| |
| 10:07 | <ogra> -q `
| |
| 10:07 | ?
| |
| 10:07 | <cliebow_> bzImage-2.6.17.8-ltsp-1.gz
| |
| 10:07 | <ogra> :)
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| 10:07 | <cliebow_> there is an initramfs for it as well
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| 10:08 | <vagrantc> ogra: so, i'm not sure i'll be able to finish ... ldm-load-balancing or network-boot-menu ...
| |
| 10:08 | ldm-load-balancing is mostly done
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| 10:08 | well, specced out
| |
| 10:09 | <ogra> yay, it boots
| |
| 10:09 | <cliebow_> there is an initramfs for it as well
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| 10:09 | <ogra> ell, i'm fine working on the ldm stuff all over
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| 10:10 | <bellis> Anyone know if I did the install of gdm in my thinclient directory if you simply change the default-display-manager to get the system back to using ldm
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| 10:10 | vanya has quit IRC | |
| 10:10 | <ogra> no
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| 10:10 | ldm doesnt use the variable (yet)
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| 10:10 | uninstall gdm and it should work
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| 10:13 | <vagrantc> you could leave gdm installed and set SCREEN_07=ldm
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| 10:13 | and tweak /etc/X11/default-display-manager
| |
| 10:14 | and then leave SCREEN_07 unset for machines you want to run gdm on
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| 10:14 | hmmm...
| |
| 10:14 | or something along those lines
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| 10:14 | <ogra> hmm, right
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| 10:16 | <bellis> well that was easy enough, thanks!
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| 10:19 | vagrantc has quit IRC | |
| 10:22 | <ogra> jammcq, measuring with all features (sound,localdev,nbd) tunred off and using a static xorg.conf and XDMCP i get 1:34 with ltsp5's kernel and 1:31 with the one from cliebow
| |
| 10:22 | <cliebow_> davidj:!!! long time no speal!
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| 10:22 | <ogra> jammcq, i fear its not the kernel
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| 10:25 | <jammcq> ogra: measuring what?
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| 10:25 | <ogra> stopwatching boottimes
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| 10:26 | <jammcq> 1:34 on the e2300 ?
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| 10:26 | <ogra> there is no difference between the two kernels
| |
| 10:26 | yes
| |
| 10:26 | <jammcq> makes no sense
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| 10:26 | <ogra> why ?
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| 10:26 | whats wrong ?
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| 10:26 | <jammcq> I mean the whole thing makes no sense to me
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| 10:26 | not what you are doing
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| 10:26 | <ogra> ah, i thought my method :)
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| 10:26 | <joebaker> Compare lsmod on both running kernels?
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| 10:26 | <ogra> i think 1.34 is pretty decent though ...
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| 10:27 | <jammcq> you are booting ltsp-5 with a ltsp-4.2 kernel ?
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| 10:27 | <ogra> yes
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| 10:27 | and ubuntu initramfs
| |
| 10:27 | <jammcq> cool
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| 10:27 | so, I guess we have to trim down the ltsp-5 booting sequence
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| 10:27 | it's doing too much work
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| 10:27 | vagrantc has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:27 | <ogra> well, there are only two major slowdowns
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| 10:28 | one is udev which we cant trim down
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| 10:28 | * jammcq thinks the WHOLE THING is a major slowdown | |
| 10:28 | * vagrantc dances the evil wireless dance | |
| 10:28 | <ogra> the other is X detection
| |
| 10:28 | which we can work around by using a static file
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| 10:28 | <joebaker> Could you have the ltsp server actually run the scripts on behalf of the thin client?
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| 10:28 | <ogra> 128M are enough to live without nbd
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| 10:29 | according to bryce he wants to redo all the X autodetection for gutsy
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| 10:29 | <davidj> ogra: Can you trim down udev by adjusting the configs?
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| 10:29 | <vagrantc> so, y'all are just talking about workarounds for the e2300 ?
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| 10:29 | <ogra> davidj, nope
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| 10:29 | <davidj> :( ah well
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| 10:29 | <ogra> davidj, ltsp5 is supposed to also work with laptops for exmpe
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| 10:29 | example
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| 10:29 | <davidj> Ah
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| 10:30 | <ogra> thats why i have ot use the xorg autodetection and udev as is
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| 10:30 | <davidj> got it
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| 10:30 | <ogra> the thing with udev is also that triming down wont help, it iterates over all devices and modprobes anyway ...
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| 10:30 | Gadi has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:30 | <davidj> Hey, Gadi
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| 10:30 | <joebaker> Lots is done in python, right? Do we have pyc files there?
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| 10:31 | <Gadi> davidj!
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| 10:31 | <ogra> the modprobing and digging through the db is the slowing down part
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| 10:31 | <Gadi> how are you?
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| 10:31 | <ogra> not much i can do ther apart from using a monolithic kernel
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| 10:31 | <davidj> Gadi: Not bad, my business has been growing.
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| 10:31 | <ogra> joebaker, no python invloved in the stuff i left enabled
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| 10:31 | <Gadi> davidj: great to hear
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| 10:31 | <davidj> Gadi: And you?
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| 10:31 | <Gadi> lot of demand for male prostitution?)
| |
| 10:31 | :D
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| 10:31 | <ogra> joebaker, the localdev scripts and ldm are python ... i disabled both
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| 10:32 | <joebaker> ok
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| 10:32 | <ogra> all the rest is shell
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| 10:32 | <cliebow_> heh
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| 10:32 | <davidj> Gadi: :)
| |
| 10:32 | <Gadi> davidj: good demand up north, too
| |
| 10:32 | must be the weather
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| 10:32 | good excuse to strip
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| 10:32 | <davidj> heh
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| 10:33 | Gadi: Got time for an off-topic chat?
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| 10:33 | <Gadi> heh, do I ever have time? for you, always...
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| 10:33 | <ogra> jammcq, i also tried with debians xdebconfigurator ... instead of our postinst script for xorg ... beyond not producing a useable xorg.conf it wasnt faster either ... a monitor simply takes so and so long to answer a DDCprobe request ...
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| 10:34 | jammcq, my best guess for the e2300 would really be to write up a howto that suggests disabling everythig, using a static xorg.conf and XDMCP
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| 10:35 | <jammcq> ogra: disabling local devices ?
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| 10:35 | <ogra> i'll see that i can get the new ldm speedy though ... but it will surely add ~15secs
| |
| 10:35 | locald devices are started after ldm/XDMCP so that shouldnt have any effect
| |
| 10:35 | let me try ...
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| 10:36 | Burgundavia has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:36 | * jammcq suspects people will skip Ubuntu and choose k12ltsp for the e2300 | |
| 10:36 | <ogra> sound wont work before someone writes a working alsa module anyway
| |
| 10:36 | jammcq, which gives you what ?
| |
| 10:36 | <joebaker> It would be helpful to provide a local storage location for autodetected information to be stored. A compact Flash or unused bios memory, or further into an Etherboot disk. You could store xorg configuration, hardware info, etc... Maybe this could be used to trim down the bootup time.
| |
| 10:36 | <jammcq> speed, sound, devices, swap
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| 10:36 | <ogra> where would k12 get sound from ?
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| 10:37 | <jammcq> sis7019 module
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| 10:37 | isn't that the chip it uses?
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| 10:37 | <ogra> there is no support for the card in that module
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| 10:37 | <jammcq> no ALSA support
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| 10:37 | <ogra> it unloads itself
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| 10:37 | <Burgundavia> vagrantc finally got online
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| 10:37 | <ogra> i see it complaining
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| 10:38 | jammcq, well, sound and localdev wont slow down much i can even move sound to start after ldm so it wont affect the booting
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| 10:38 | jammcq, what swap mechanism does k12 use ?
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| 10:38 | <jammcq> nbd
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| 10:39 | <ogra> and that doesnt slow down for them ?
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| 10:40 | negotiating the connection alone takes 15secs
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| 10:40 | root___ has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:40 | <ogra> mkswap and swapon another 10 or so
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| 10:42 | 1:34 with localdev ... no trace of pulseaudio (sice there are no sound devices) but it was run during the startup sequence
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| 10:42 | so localdev and sound dont affect it at all
| |
| 10:42 | nbd will though
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| 10:43 | and ndb is actually the only thing i cant start after X
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| 10:43 | <vagrantc> could background nbd
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| 10:43 | <jammcq> ogra: 1:34 starting at what point? Power-on ?
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| 10:43 | <ogra> yes
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| 10:43 | <joebaker> Here's a thought... build a hash of the lspci information and perform a lookup against hardware configurations that have been detected in the past. Somehow saving the xorg.conf results back to the LTSP server in another NFS share that's writable by the client.
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| 10:43 | <ogra> up to the grey screen with the X (my gdm wasnt restarted yet since i have stuff in my session i dont want to loose)
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| 10:43 | jammcq, so add 6 secs for gdm to come up ...
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| 10:44 | over the thumb
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| 10:44 | but even 1:40 is fine
| |
| 10:44 | what we need is scotties support for XDMCP in localdev then we can point e2300 to a static xorg.conf and tell them to use XDMCP
| |
| 10:45 | *e2300 users
| |
| 10:45 | apart from nbd i dont see any difference to k12 here
| |
| 10:47 | and i'd really love to see how they would manage nbd/mkswap/swapon without affecting the bootprocess *and having swap available *before* X starts
| |
| 10:48 | <jammcq> aside from nbd swap, k12ltsp can boot that unit in 41 seconds. the best you've been able to do is more than double that time
| |
| 10:48 | so there is still considerable differences
| |
| 10:48 | <vagrantc> mkswap can be done server-side
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| 10:48 | <ogra> yes your fake nfsroot
| |
| 10:48 | <jammcq> personally..... 41 secs vs 90 secs isn't that big a deal
| |
| 10:48 | but users will complain
| |
| 10:48 | <ogra> i'll look into that again in another session
| |
| 10:48 | <jammcq> and when they do, no good will come of that
| |
| 10:49 | <ogra> well, the CPU is running constantly on 100% on both kernels as soo as i do something locally
| |
| 10:49 | its simply a way slow thing
| |
| 10:49 | s/way/very/
| |
| 10:50 | <jammcq> my feeling is that treating a low-powered thin client as though it's a real desktop computer, and expecting it to execute all (or much) of the start stuff that a full desktop goes through is the wrong approach. I think we need to treat this e2300 more like an embedded device
| |
| 10:51 | <ogra> right, thats what we do
| |
| 10:51 | <jammcq> no, not really
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| 10:51 | <ogra> thats the reason i'm proposing to use a static xorg.conf
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| 10:51 | <jammcq> ltsp-4.2 is much more like an embedded os
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| 10:51 | very simple startup scripts
| |
| 10:51 | very simple hardware detection
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| 10:51 | <ogra> there are only 5 startup scripts left in ltsp5
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| 10:52 | i wont rewrite udev
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| 10:52 | <jammcq> I don't expect a rewrite of udev
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| 10:52 | <ogra> well, so make a suggestion
| |
| 10:52 | what do you want ?
| |
| 10:52 | what does 4.2 use not udev ?
| |
| 10:52 | <jammcq> I'm very interested in the 'Ubuntu mobile' stuff that Matt announced. certainly it's not ready for a while, but seems interesting
| |
| 10:52 | <ogra> *use,
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| 10:53 | indeed
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| 10:53 | <jammcq> ltsp-4.2 only uses udev for loading the local device modules
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| 10:53 | tiagovaz has quit IRC | |
| 10:53 | <ogra> i will work wth that on the classmate as well, so surely we can benefit
| |
| 10:53 | tiagovaz has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:53 | <ogra> which are these ?
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| 10:53 | <jammcq> huh?
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| 10:53 | <ogra> gimme a list and i can tr to blacklist the world
| |
| 10:53 | *try
| |
| 10:54 | <jammcq> maybe scotty can give a list
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| 10:54 | <ogra> all ltsp5 loads is ide/usb and all the subsystems
| |
| 10:54 | <jammcq> I don't know it that well
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| 10:54 | <ogra> oh207, and sound indeed
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| 10:54 | <jammcq> ltsp-4.2 X config is much simpler
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| 10:55 | <ogra> bt even then it needs to iterate over the PCI ID database of the kernel
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| 10:55 | right
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| 10:55 | <jammcq> hmm, not really. it just looks at /proc/bus/pci/something
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| 10:55 | <ogra> i agree that out X config sucks at speed
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| 10:55 | but it always works
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| 10:56 | <jammcq> I was hoping we'd find the magic bullet last week. unfortunately, there seems to not be one
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| 10:56 | <ogra> jammcq, nope, it walks the sysfs
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| 10:56 | <jammcq> I found a cpu benchmarking suite called 'nbench'. I just finished running it on ltsp-5. it seems to compare almost exactly to ltsp-4.2
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| 10:56 | ogra: what does?
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| 10:57 | for network card, video card and sound chipset, we simply look at the /proc/bus/pci file
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| 10:57 | that's /proc/bus/pci/devices
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| 10:57 | <ogra> jammcq, our X detection
| |
| 10:57 | <jammcq> oh
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| 10:57 | <ogra> does always work ...
| |
| 10:58 | or what were yu referring to ?
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| 10:58 | <jammcq> ltsp-4.2 and device detection
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| 10:58 | <ogra> ah
| |
| 10:58 | * ogra tries a boot with backgrounded nbd | |
| 10:59 | <jammcq> what puzzles me is that with ltsp-4.2, we're sitting at a login screen at just about the time the ltsp-5 kernel jumps into user space
| |
| 10:59 | <ogra> so give me your kernel .config and we'll get a -ltsp flavor
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| 10:59 | <jammcq> you want 2.6.20 ?
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| 11:00 | seems like I gave you that last week, but I'll make it available again
| |
| 11:00 | <ogra> 1:33.94 secs with backgrounded nbd
| |
| 11:00 | <jammcq> stopwatch?
| |
| 11:00 | <ogra> meh
| |
| 11:00 | but race condition
| |
| 11:00 | swapon didnt work
| |
| 11:00 | yep, stopwatch
| |
| 11:01 | * jammcq is happy to see we are at least using the same timing method now | |
| 11:01 | <ogra> you know i dont like yours but you forced me into it :P
| |
| 11:01 | ok, but i think the nbd stuff is solvable
| |
| 11:02 | <jammcq> http://www.McQuil.com/config-2.6.20.9-ltsp-1
| |
| 11:02 | <ogra> now we have X and udev ... and probably a new kernel that gains us some secs before initramfs
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| 11:02 | jsgotangco has quit IRC | |
| 11:04 | <ogra> jammcq, are you in #ubuntu-devel ?
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| 11:05 | BenC wants a .22 config
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| 11:05 | <jammcq> no, but I can be
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| 11:05 | <ogra> then we can get our package right away with next build
| |
| 11:05 | well, you got the info :)
| |
| 11:06 | <vagrantc> how different will a .20 config be?
| |
| 11:07 | <ogra> according to ben there were massive changes
| |
| 11:08 | <vagrantc> ah, .6 the "stable" release branch.
| |
| 11:14 | * ogra needs a break now ... i didnt even take time to read all my mails | |
| 11:15 | <vagrantc> i find swimming in saltwater much more cleansing than any shower.
| |
| 11:15 | <ogra> btw, if you switch the BIOS to "acpi aware OS" the powerbutton doesnt sut down immediately ;) might help people that kill the thing with unplugging stuff
| |
| 11:15 | vagrantc, where do you have saltwater in madrid ?
| |
| 11:15 | <vagrantc> ogra: well, yesterday i was in cadiz :)
| |
| 11:16 | <ogra> pfft ...
| |
| 11:16 | <vagrantc> no hay internet
| |
| 11:16 | <ogra> and we'Re freezing here in germany ...
| |
| 11:16 | 12°C ...
| |
| 11:16 | no fun
| |
| 11:16 | <Burgundavia> is 20 is Madrid
| |
| 11:16 | <vagrantc> it's freezing 0°C
| |
| 11:16 | <ogra> bah ...
| |
| 11:16 | <vagrantc> ?
| |
| 11:17 | * ogra now really goes downstairs for a looong break | |
| 11:17 | * vagrantc thought that was the whole point of centigrade/celcius | |
| 11:17 | <ogra> you just make me envoius
| |
| 11:18 | * vagrantc is done playing | |
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| 11:24 | <Burgundavia> we are heading out for dinner
| |
| 11:24 | say goodbye vagrantc
| |
| 11:24 | <vagrantc> or else
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| 11:40 | <joebaker> jammcq - So what do you think of the hardware detection match idea? HWMATCH=`lspci | md5sum` next look for a matching xorg.conf-${HWMATCH}
| |
| 11:43 | Q-FUNK has quit IRC | |
| 11:43 | <highvoltage> boo.
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| 11:44 | <cliebow_> eek
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| 11:44 | <highvoltage> mhuhahahahaha.
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| 11:55 | <moquist> ogra: the last 1:15 of yesterday's boot times was taken up by the 'gtk' greeter pegging the processor.
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| 11:57 | <cliebow_> moquist: who do you have talking at unh-nels?
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| 13:27 | * kaminski-ltsp-br is away: away | |
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| 13:54 | <Mineque> hello
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| 13:54 | does the bluetooth usb stick works on ltsp 4.2?
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| 14:04 | <sbalneav> Mineque: I don't think we've got any bluetooth support in 4.2
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| 14:05 | Is this for like a bluetooth mouse, or something?
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| 14:05 | <Mineque> bluetooth dongle
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| 14:05 | <sbalneav> What are you wanting to communicate with?
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| 14:06 | <Mineque> mobile phone for example...
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| 14:06 | <sbalneav> No, I don't think that would work.
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| 14:57 | <chupacabra> is xfce distro dependant nowadays?
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| 14:58 | is ltsp distro dependant nowadays?
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| 14:58 | oops
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| 14:58 | does one have to run X on the server?
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| 14:58 | <Egyptian[Home]> chupacabra: no
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| 15:03 | <comfrey> hey all...
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| 15:03 | i am looking to get vncviewer on SCREEN_03.
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| 15:03 | i assume this is something easy to accomplish?
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| 15:04 | i had an issue yesterday. cant remember what. but i will try again after these folks close up shop here
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| 15:04 | fell back to ltsp 4.2.
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| 15:04 | i sure dont understand all of the details of 5 yes
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| 15:04 | yet
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| 15:05 | <bellis_away> comfrey, 5 is quite a departure to how things were done, but once you get used to it, it is alot better
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| 15:05 | bellis_away is now known as bellis | |
| 15:05 | <comfrey> that is good to hear.
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| 15:05 | <bellis> comfrey, it makes package installation and maintenance alot easier
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| 15:05 | <comfrey> i just was really confused by the seeming deprication of lts.conf
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| 15:07 | i do look forward to better
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| 15:07 | <bellis> comfrey, were you able to get the vncviewer to work as you had hoped?
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| 15:07 | <comfrey> and easier
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| 15:07 | not yet...
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| 15:07 | <bellis> comfrey, are you getting a specific error or anything that is not working?
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| 15:07 | <comfrey> l don't want to interfere with the working people.
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| 15:07 | i think something about a screen script.
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| 15:08 | don't recall exactly.
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| 15:08 | <bellis> comfrey, ahh ic, just post it out when you get a chance and someone on here should be able to help
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| 15:08 | <comfrey> 1 hour to go before testing
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| 15:08 | sweet
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| 15:08 | i hope so :)
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| 15:40 | <vagrantc> jammcq: have y'all discussed any dates for the LTSP shindig in portland?
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| 15:40 | or anyone who knows
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| 15:56 | <cliebow> chupacabra you there?
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| 15:58 | <cliebow> chupacabra, ltsp4.2 ws built in the llbe..ubuntu haas built ltsp5 with its own binaries and kernel..5 is still a work in progress..but the nfsrot and kernel cana be had and run on other distros
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| 15:58 | <petre> in 4.2, is /etc/profile.d/ltsp.sh an ltsp thing or a k12ltsp thing?
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| 15:59 | <cliebow> i this k12..
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| 15:59 | i think k12..
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| 16:00 | <petre> cliebow: tx
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| 16:02 | <cliebow> sure..
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| 16:08 | <petre> guess I'll moan to Eric about how it still calls ltspinfo even on strictly ssh sessions to the server
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| 16:12 | <cliebow> havnt heard a word from Eric for ages..
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| 16:16 | <petre> he hasn't posted many messages to the list lately either
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| 16:17 | does he have a significant other? perhaps he didn't but does now
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| 16:18 | although he's gotten early releases of K12 ver. 7 out
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| 16:51 | <comfrey_> ok, so i am getting SCREEN_SCRIPT vncviewer not found!
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| 17:04 | <comfrey_> any tips on this one?
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| 17:28 | <comfrey_> ok, i plugged in the vnc screen script
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| 17:28 | and...
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| 17:28 | i guess i need to find the binary to drop in
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| 17:34 | <comfrey_> have that on the way
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| 17:35 | looking positive
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| 17:53 | <comfrey_> geez, i need to find a statically linked vncviewer
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| 21:20 | <PMantis> hey jammcq !!
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| 21:20 | Hi ogra !
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| 21:21 | <jammcq> PMantis: hey
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| 21:24 | <davidj> jammcq: Hey
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| 21:25 | <jammcq> hey davidj
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| 21:25 | how you doin?
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| 21:25 | <davidj> I'm great
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| 21:25 | a bit tired, it's been a long few weeks.
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| 21:25 | <jammcq> heh, tell me about it
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| 21:25 | <davidj> :)
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| 21:25 | Yeah, well, at least I'm not jetlagged.
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| 21:27 | <davidj_away> jammcq: Will you be around tomorrow?
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| 21:28 | <jammcq> yeah
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| 22:20 | <milosz> jammcq:
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| 22:20 | around
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