IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Request log from specific day:

Channel log from 20 January 2009 (all times are UTC)

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02:06	<Appiah> is there anyway to make a LTSP server failover to another one?
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02:11	<polytan> hi
02:34	!seen johny
02:34	<ltspbot> polytan: I have not seen johny.
02:34	<polytan> !seen johnny
02:34	<ltspbot> polytan: johnny was last seen in #ltsp 10 hours, 24 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <johnny> cyberorg, does suse have a package for xephyr ?
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04:10	<alkisg> Appiah: you could use dhcpd.conf to specify another server... I don't think you can switch servers why the TCs are running.
04:10	*while
04:11	(dhcp3-server supports scripts, so it's easy to see if a server is online or not)
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04:46	<polytan> I just need usb now :/
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05:56	<isojussi> is it possible to remove that loading animation in ubuntu?, i have problem with one client and i want to see booting text instead that
05:59	sdsa
06:01	<alkisg> isojussi: are your clients pxe or etherboot?
06:06	<isojussi> pxe
06:06	<alkisg> isojussi: modify /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default (remove quiet splash)
06:07	<isojussi> i have one client with nvidia6100 gpu and it boots up to loading screen and after that i get blinking cursor top left corner
06:10	<alkisg> isojussi: read this (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/StaticIPsWithDHCP) not for the IPs thing, but on how to create a pxelinux.cfg/01-mac-address file to pass kernel parameters to this specific client. Then try removing quiet/splash for this client, and maybe vga=791
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06:17	<isojussi> I removed that quiet splah thing but i still get that screen
06:18	<alkisg> You removed quiet splash from pxelinux.cfg/default and you still get the splash screen? Then your clients aren't pxe...
06:19	<isojussi> http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=2073&l1=1&l2=1&l3=380&l4=0
06:19	this machinbe
06:22	<alkisg> isojussi: maybe you have a custom /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ?
06:22	!pastebin
06:22	<ltspbot> alkisg: "pastebin" is try !pastebot
06:22	<alkisg> !pastebot
06:22	<ltspbot> alkisg: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
06:25	<isojussi> http://paste.servut.us/8qow
06:25	my dhcp conf
06:25	machine is ws010
06:28	<alkisg> isojussi: try this: sudo su
06:28	echo DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img > /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/01-00-1d-60-a5-33-36
06:28	and reboot the client
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06:40	<isojussi> now I can see some booting text, after that i get black scree
06:40	n
06:41	<alkisg> ...and nothing else? What's the last text you see?
06:43	<isojussi> checking if image is initramfs .. it is
06:43	after that blank screen
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06:53	<alkisg> Hmmm.... try adding vga=791 to the right of initrd=initrd.img in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/01-00-1d-60-a5-33-36
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06:56	<isojussi> i have 7.04 version of ubuntu. it is possible cause for this?
06:56	is it
06:56	<alkisg> ok, again, at what point do you get the blank screen? What's the last (or some of the last) text?
06:57	isojussi: sorry, scratch that
06:57	<isojussi> checking if image is initramfs .. it is
06:57	after that
06:57	<alkisg> isojussi: maybe, if the kernel doesn't support your hardware
06:57	Why would you want 7.04 instead of e.g. 8.04 or 8.10?
06:57	Isn't 7.04 unsupported now?
06:57	<isojussi> i should have updated earlier
06:58	i get error now when i try to update
06:58	<alkisg> isojussi: ask at #ubuntu for how you can upgrade
06:59	E.g. maybe if you download an 8.04 CD you'll be able to upgrade fine.
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07:03	<isojussi> Failed to fetch http://fi.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz 404 Not Found
07:08	<stgraber> isojussi: sudo update-manager --dist-upgrade
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07:32	<evilx> well I removed all off ltsp and I am redoing it all over
07:35	<Appiah> ouch
07:36	<evilx> it kept going to initramfs for no reason
07:36	it wont fully boot anymore and im not sure why something about Connec:Connection refused mount moutning /rofs on /root/fofs failed: invalid argument
07:36	and mroe mounting stuff
07:38	<Appiah> if it goes to initramfs it's beacuse it's having problems mounting the root
07:38	<evilx> i know, and im not sure why
07:38	so i removed all of ltsp-server and deleted the tftpboot and the ltsp directory and I am currently rebuilding it
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07:43	<evilx> let see if that fixed it
07:44	now uit not connecting to the tftp server
07:44	bah
07:45	<Appiah> =)
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07:55	<evilx> this is irritating me
07:55	i see tftpd running
07:56	udp 0 0 :tftp :* 12100/in.tftpd
07:56	<alkisg> evilx: try `tftp localhost` from the server first, to see if tftp is working.
07:57	<evilx> gave me a prompt
07:57	<alkisg> try 'get /ltsp/i386/vmlinuz' or lts.conf or something
07:58	<evilx> no fuch file
07:58	i did get vmlinuz
07:58	and the other, nothing
07:58	<alkisg> OK, then tftp is working
07:58	<evilx> i didnt get worry
07:58	<alkisg> (you just didn't create an lts.conf yet)
07:58	<evilx> sorry
07:58	<alkisg> Ah, so you didn't get _any_ file?
07:58	<evilx> I dont think so
07:59	<alkisg> What distro?
07:59	<evilx> ubuntu
07:59	<alkisg> grep tftp /etc/inetd.conf
08:00	<evilx> i had to add it sincei t wasnt in there
08:00	2000 dgram udp wait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd in.tftpd /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/
08:00	<alkisg> No, that's not correct
08:00	tftp dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
08:00	<evilx> what wrong?
08:00	<alkisg> The root should be /var/lib/tftpboot
08:01	<evilx> ok
08:01	<alkisg> Restart inetd
08:02	<evilx> ok
08:02	<alkisg> sudo /etc/init.d/openbsd-inetd restart
08:02	Try getting vmlinuz again
08:02	<evilx> ok
08:02	i typed get vmlinuz and it just sitting there let see if it gets it
08:03	tranfer timed out
08:04	i tried get vmlinuz, get /ltsp/i386/vmlinuz and nothing just timed out
08:04	error in syslog, cannot set groups for user nobdy
08:05	<alkisg> evilx: put the line I pasted above
08:05	in inetd.conf
08:05	<evilx> i forgot to change tftp
08:08	<alkisg> 2000 is the port to nbdrootd
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08:09	<evilx> oh
08:09	forbidden directory
08:11	<alkisg> Huh? which one?
08:11	<evilx> when i do get /ltsp/i386/vmlinuz
08:11	tftp> get /ltsp/i386/vmlinuz
08:11	Error code 2: Forbidden directory
08:15	<alkisg> Again, grep tftp /etc/inetd.conf ?
08:15	<evilx> tftp dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot/
08:15	i added the tcpd, without it i get forbidden directory
08:16	with it it doesnt time out
08:16	<alkisg> So now it works?
08:16	<evilx> no it gives me an empty file or nothing
08:16	<alkisg> Upload `ls -lha /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386` into pastebot
08:18	<evilx> http://pastebin.com/m978b4c2
08:18	oh my kernel has no size to it
08:18	<alkisg> Yup. Try getting pxelinux.0 with tftp.
08:19	<evilx> yeah that get it
08:19	<alkisg> OK. sudo ltsp-update-kernels
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08:19	<evilx> i just did
08:19	<alkisg> So vmlinuz is non-zero now?
08:20	<evilx> hold on getting calls about this downstairs
08:20	lol
08:20	<alkisg> Heh
08:20	<evilx> it booting it
08:20	brb
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08:27	<evilx> ok working, besides the ones that require openchrome
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08:33	<jammcq> good morning #ltsp
08:35	<evilx> next damn thing, i need to figure out what required in my sources.list
08:37	i hate mornings
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09:06	<_UsUrPeR_> just updated F10
09:08	getting the following error from F10 on boot: mount: RPC: Authentication error; why = Failed (unspecified error) nfsmount: error mounting 172.31.100.254:/opt/ltsp/i386 on /sysroot as nfs: Bad file descriptor
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09:09	<sbalneav> Morning all
09:09	<jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:09	<sbalneav> Hey jammcq!
09:09	Today's my "Mac day" here at work.
09:09	<isojussi> how is this possible. i bought 2 asus barebones and both have same MAC address
09:10	integrated NIc
09:10	<sbalneav> we've got 3 macs that need some work done on 'em, and I've set aside today to get it done.
09:10	isojussi: Well, it's possible if Asus is cheaping out on assigning macs :)
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09:12	<isojussi> that just makes things complicated when i have 2 identical machines with 1 IP
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09:14	<_UsUrPeR_> inauguration, anyone?
09:14	evilx has quit IRC
09:14	* _UsUrPeR_ flips to hulu
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09:17	<_UsUrPeR_> anyone on the error?
09:17	RPC: Authentication error; why = Failed (unspecified error) nfsmount: error mounting 172.31.100.254:/opt/ltsp/i386 on /sysroot as nfs: Bad file descriptor
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09:47	<isojussi> anyone used MAc-changer program?
09:48	does it work with ltsp client?
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09:52	<isojussi> i have two machines that have same mac-address how i can modify them to get both machines unique ip-adress
09:54	<sbalneav> How do you know they both have the same mac address?
09:54	When they boot, they both list the same mac?
09:56	<isojussi> yes. both have integrated nic's and when machine starts it shows mac address when optaining ip. both have same
09:57	<sbalneav> You just bought them?
09:58	<isojussi> yes. 2 asus barebones
09:58	identical
10:00	used as thinclient
10:00	<sbalneav> Then I'd call one of them broken. Return it.
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10:45	<_UsUrPeR_> where are the ubuntu lts.conf "X_option" options documented?
10:45	nobios has quit IRC
10:48	<_UsUrPeR_> nm, found in edubuntu
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11:03	<polytan> hi
11:03	<sbalneav> Hello
11:04	<_UsUrPeR_> hi
11:04	is there some way to be rid of the pesky virtual desktop size?
11:04	It appears to only be able to be set by defining an xorg.conf
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11:05	<sbalneav> Not sure, I've never had a problem with the virt being any different from the real.
11:07	<polytan> what is the name of the arch for x86 ?
11:07	in ubuntu, I do "ltsp-build-client --arch x86" and it keeps "amd64" (like the server)
11:08	I've got it
11:09	I don't know why, I'va got the verbose output just now (after a lot of tries...)
11:09	sorry
11:09	<sbalneav> i386 I beleive
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11:16	<SDuensin> Greetings.
11:17	<polytan> see you later
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11:39	<SDuensin> Has anyone ever made iTALC auto-discover clients? I don't want to re-invent the wheel.
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11:42	<alkisg> SDuensin: distro?
11:43	<SDuensin> Oh, sorry. Ubuntu.
11:43	<alkisg> version?
11:43	<SDuensin> 8.10
11:43	<alkisg> !pastebot
11:43	<ltspbot> alkisg: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
11:43	<SDuensin> It's a new box, so if a different flavor would be better, that's possible.
11:43	<ltsppbot> "alkisg" pasted "ica-launcher with port in avahi service" (57 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/188
11:44	<alkisg> SDuensin: replace ica-launcher with this ^^^
11:44	There are 2 lines changed, to make it work in ltsp environment without installing it to the chroot
11:44	Logoff / logon the clients and you're done
11:44	<SDuensin> Ok, I've been reading a LOT about how best to do this... Do I want to put ica/ica-launcher in the chroot or on the server?
11:45	<alkisg> How much ram on the clients?
11:45	<SDuensin> Unknown at this point. The test lab has a 512 box and a 128.
11:45	I'd say it's safe to assume 512+.
11:45	<alkisg> Nah, for just italc, 256 would be more than enough
11:46	If you install it to the chroot, you get the ability to shutdown / reboot etc the clients, because it runs before users log on.
11:46	<SDuensin> That's what I thought. :-)
11:46	* SDuensin is learning!
11:46	<alkisg> But of course you need more ram on the clients, e.g. I have clients with only 64 RAM, so I can't run it.
11:47	<SDuensin> I'm re-using existing Windows PCs, so they'll have more than 64. :-D
11:47	<alkisg> Mine are windows 98 PCs... :P
11:48	<SDuensin> Ewww. :-D
11:51	<nubae> alkisg: I can get u more ram if u need it, there are loads of second hand shops here around with older simms and dimms
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11:51	* SDuensin put his really old RAM in his Apple IIgs. :-D
11:52	<alkisg> nubae, nah, they run fine with 64 Mb. Thanks, though! :)
11:52	If LTSP 5.1 or LTSP 6 needs 128 MB, I may ask you then!
11:52	<nubae> heh
11:53	thats the only problem with the entire, use old clients for ever scenario
11:53	ram needs keep growing
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12:22	<nubae> I saw a cool article about osf
12:22	ofs even
12:22	looks like a great way to keep terminals running when the server reboots
12:26	<alkisg> Huh? whassut?
12:28	<nubae> offline file system
12:29	it keeps a local and server cache so when the client disconnects it can continue working locally
12:29	and then when it connects back to the server it updates
12:29	<alkisg> And it reconnects nbd etc?
12:29	<nubae> of course one would have to go back to using nfs instead of nbd
12:29	<alkisg> Ah
12:29	<nubae> well its its own filesystem
12:29	so everything would have to be nfs
12:30	unless... it works with just /home
12:30	<alkisg> I guess putting the image on a CD would be simpler... :P
12:30	<nubae> how would that work?
12:30	<Gadi> er, the NFS filesystem is prolly much greater than the available RAM for cache
12:31	<nubae> well, its incremental cache
12:31	oh, wait, understand what u mean
12:31	doh
12:31	<Gadi> sure - you prolly dont touch all the files on th NFS root
12:31	<nubae> I'm thinking about fatclient in any case, caching to disk
12:31	<Gadi> only the important ones
12:31	:P
12:31	<nubae> well one could cache to disk with thin clients too
12:31	<alkisg> Well, one could patch ltsp a little and put /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img in a CD... No nfs, no nbd, nothing
12:32	<nubae> I dont see why it wouldnt work
12:32	<Gadi> now, what I have been meaning to code is to make use of nbd for failover
12:32	by stacking two nbd mounts from different servers
12:32	and removing a failed one from the stack
12:32	until it returns
12:32	<alkisg> Appiah: ^^^
12:32	<nubae> well, the interesting thing here is to make it work for wireless
12:33	imagine being able to take advantage of LTSP, and still use the laptops (think netbooks) when they take them home
12:33	<Gadi> yeah, we do that
12:33	but it involves booting the LTSP image from USB stick
12:33	<nubae> Gadi: can u explain a little?
12:34	<Gadi> and choosing the appropriate protocol
12:34	you dont want direct X or X-over-ssh for wireless
12:34	<nubae> what about if changes happen on the server and the client while the clients are offline?
12:35	<Gadi> you want a protocol that is tolerant and caching the session on the server
12:35	like NX, VNC, Citrix, RDP, ...
12:35	<nubae> like ofs
12:35	<Gadi> no
12:35	not caching files
12:35	caching sessions
12:36	ie does not use the thin client's Xserver for sessions
12:36	only for display
12:36	<nubae> but could one do it with X?
12:36	<Gadi> you can have a wireless session with X, but lose your connection and you lose your session
12:37	<nubae> hmmm, right, understand...
12:37	<Gadi> you're better off using a proxy
12:37	that is local to the server
12:38	whenever you have unreliable networking, you need to compensate by pushing the problem on the server CPU
12:38	(or client's - but we assume here limited client resources)
12:39	<alkisg> How difficult would be to patch nbd to keep trying until it gets reconnected to the server? Even if it takes 2 minutes (to reboot) or even if it's a different server with the same IP or hostname?
12:39	<Gadi> alkisg: those are 2 diff scenarios
12:40	a different server provides a different image
12:40	<alkisg> Uh, couldn't it provide the same image?
12:40	<Gadi> and we currently support scenario #1 with -persist
12:40	<alkisg> Oh, I didn't know that, ty
12:41	<Gadi> since we use aufs, tho
12:41	it'd be cleanest to just stack the 2 images
12:41	<nubae> one persistent and one non u mean?
12:41	<Gadi> and remove the failed image until it is back online
12:41	<Appiah> alkisg: what
12:41	oh
12:41	<Gadi> no, I mean, we stack: i386.img from A and i386.img from B and tmpfs
12:41	<Appiah> ndb failover
12:41	<alkisg> Appiah: Gadi was talking about implementing nbd failover, I think you were asking about this in the morning?
12:41	<Appiah> cool
12:42	yupp
12:42	<Gadi> if A fails, we remove it from the stack
12:42	<nubae> The OFS (Offline FileSystem or Ohm FileSystem) is a offline-layer which is (or should be) able to extend every filesystem with offline capabilities. This means, that the user is able to work on his network documents, event when he is disconnected from the server. When connecten is restored, the filesystem automatically synchronizes the files.
12:42	<Gadi> if B fails we remove it from the stack
12:42	so, only if both fail, we lose our rootfs
12:42	<nubae> k
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12:42	<Gadi> then, we put them back in the stack if they come online again
12:43	<Appiah> failover and load balance is the #1 stopping me from going thru with a big ltsp solution
12:43	<Lns> Gadi: is syncing the two images implemented, or is that left up to the admin?
12:43	<Gadi> Lns: I would say leave it to the admin
12:43	for now
12:43	<Lns> its easy enough anyway
12:43	<nubae> could easily be scripted
12:43	<Gadi> but, that would be my experiment
12:43	<Lns> are there any existing features within ltsp-cluster or similar?
12:44	<Gadi> no
12:44	* Lns hasn't delved into -cluster at all yet
12:44	<nubae> so ofs is really just useful for fatclients
12:44	<Gadi> ltsp-cluster governs managing a bunch of application servers and such
12:44	<Lns> One has to wonder if "classic" clustering would just take care of any failover concerns at the core anyway
12:44	Gadi: so not a "real" cluster in technical terms
12:44	<Gadi> ofs is useful only if your local available storage space exceeds what you want to cache
12:45	Lns: "cluster" is a very loosely defined technical term
12:45	<nubae> so low ram situations...
12:45	?
12:45	<Lns> Gadi: beowulf?
12:45	<Gadi> beowulf is a type of HA cluster
12:45	or is it HP
12:46	I never remember
12:46	<vagrantc> many cpu cycles
12:46	<Gadi> but, yeah, there are many types of beasts we call "clusters"
12:46	<Lns> Gadi: HP actually
12:46	<Gadi> the only commonality being it involves more than one machine
12:46	:)
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12:47	<Lns> hehe
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12:48	<Lns> Can anyone ( stgraber ?) tell me how accounts are handled in ltsp-cluster?
12:48	<nubae> so let me see if I understand, to get offline ltsp capabilities, its best to load an image from local usb or hard drive, then connect via something like vnc and cache to server?
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12:49	* vagrantc wonders how anything offline could be ltsp
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12:49	<nubae> well, when it goes back online it would be, no?
12:50	yeah I'm using the term loosely
12:50	<vagrantc> i guess i just don't understand what you mean by offline
12:50	<nubae> I mean, in the event teh kids have netbooks
12:50	and they are usually connected via ltsp
12:50	<vagrantc> persistant sessions?
12:50	<nubae> then they go home
12:50	yes
12:50	<Gadi> right
12:50	so this is not about LTSP anymore
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12:51	<Gadi> it is about terminal services protocols
12:51	of which, the default in LTSP (LDM) is not the correct protocol to use
12:51	<vagrantc> not terminal server project :)
12:51	<Gadi> rdesktop would be a better choice
12:51	which comes with LTSP
12:51	:)
12:52	<nubae> k
12:52	<Gadi> you can disconnect and reconnect to RDP sessions
12:52	<vagrantc> or vnc, or NX ...
12:52	<nubae> they dont come with ltsp do they?
12:52	<Gadi> and if you wanted to deploy that protocol on the LAN, ltsp is a great way to do it
12:53	<vagrantc> is there a linux-based RDP server?
12:53	<Gadi> xrdp
12:53	its used by Nomad
12:53	<nubae> hmmm, u use this already?
12:53	<Gadi> and is open source
12:53	but is more limited than WTS
12:53	:)
12:53	talk to cyberorg
12:53	he's all over Nomad and xrdp
12:54	:)
12:54	<vagrantc> so, with xrdp, i could actually test rdesktop?
12:54	<Gadi> yup
12:54	<vagrantc> wow!
12:54	anyways ... off to work!
12:54	<Gadi> it lacks some features, like device redirection
12:54	<nubae> I just see this as a really cool option for schools now with them netbook craze
12:54	<Gadi> but, works for the main stuff
12:55	nubae: another option are virtual machines
12:55	give each kid a virtual machine
12:55	<alkisg> Heh... people are using ltsp to connect to 2008 servers with RDP, I could use xrdp to connect _from_ windows 95 (16 ram) to a linux server... :)
12:56	<Gadi> thn they can stop it, save it to their pen drive and run it on the netbook, or remote into it
12:56	<nubae> Gadi: I think it needs to be more transparent than that
12:56	automated
12:56	<Gadi> transparent how?
12:57	thats a question of tools not tech
12:57	<nubae> how do u mean?
12:58	<Gadi> ease of use is up to the tools you use
12:58	VMWare has an entire business of making VMs easy to use
12:58	as do others
12:59	<nubae> no, not the vm itself... the act of saving to the pendrive, stopping, resarting, etc
12:59	<Gadi> the extent to which they are is a matter of finding the right tool
12:59	right
12:59	thats why God invented icons
12:59	:)
12:59	<nubae> should be able to just plugin and plugout and not notice the difference
12:59	lol
13:00	<Gadi> I would have a red one on the netbook to remote into my server's VM
13:00	and a blue one for loading the one off my pen drive
13:01	bbiab
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13:01	<nubae> and how would u do the saving, on quit of the vm?
13:01	<Gadi> ph call
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13:01	<Gadi> autosave
13:01	most VMs have that feature
13:01	afaik
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13:07	<Appiah> xrdp? cool
13:08	<nubae> The thing about the vm scenario is that they are then using 2 oses on the same computer... kind of pointless...
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13:50	<alkisg> !localdev
13:50	<ltspbot> alkisg: "localdev" is (#1) Information regarding using pluggable devices and cdroms with LTSP can be found at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev, or (#2) for ubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices, or (#3) for debian-edu: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/LocalDeviceLtspfs, or (#4) http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
13:50	<alkisg> From https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev: "Note2: If the device is formatted with FAT will not work." - anyone knows why?
13:50	Because some students have fat16 sticks...
13:51	...and we can't really ask them to reformat them
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13:57	<Gadi> alkisg: are they partitioned?
13:57	(ie does the stick show up as "sda" or as "sda1"?
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13:58	<alkisg> Gadi: yes, 1 partition with fat16 file system
13:58	<Gadi> do you have one handy?
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13:58	<alkisg> Yes, I can have one in 2 minutes. What should I run?
13:59	<Gadi> stick it into a linux box and run vol_id /dev/sda1
13:59	(or whatever the device name is
13:59	you may need to run it as: /lib/udev/vol_id
13:59	<johnny> uggh.. major computer meltdown
14:00	<alkisg> !pastebot
14:00	<ltspbot> alkisg: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
14:00	<ltsppbot> "alkisg" pasted "vol_id /dev/sdb1" (10 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/189
14:00	<alkisg> Gadi: ^
14:00	<Gadi> hmm...
14:00	<johnny> looks like things might be ok for a little bit
14:01	we'll see
14:01	luckily i have everything all backed up in case things go crazy
14:01	<Gadi> can you: sudo mount -tvfat /dev/sdb1 /mnt
14:02	* Gadi sees no reason why fat16 would not work like fat32
14:02	<alkisg> I don't know who wrote the wiki, but he was right... maybe sbalneav?
14:02	<Gadi> well what happens when you mount it
14:02	?
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14:02	<Gadi> specifying vfat
14:02	<rjune_> !g
14:02	<ltspbot> rjune_: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:02	<Gadi> hey, juney
14:03	<alkisg> Gadi: it's mounted ok.... !
14:03	with sudo mount -tvfat /dev/sdb1 /media/disk
14:04	<Gadi> well, thats a good start
14:04	<alkisg> Let me boot up a thin client...
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14:07	<stgraber> Gadi: so what exactly still needs testing in ltspfs ?
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14:14	<alkisg> Gadi: ok, there's something wrong with the server configuration in my school, it works fine with my laptop as a server. Sorry!!! (I guess also the wiki needs updating)
14:14	<markit> hi, I've not (yet) installed ltsp, I just would like to know if I can have my dhcp server in one host, and the ltsp server in another (I'm using dnsmasq in the router/dhcp server shorewall GNU/linux PC)
14:14	<alkisg> But I don't see how I can _unmount_ the stick now... :)
14:14	markit: yes, no problem there
14:15	<Gadi> alkisg: just pull it (from the client)
14:15	or unmount from laptop
14:15	<alkisg> Gadi: ah, no caching? ok, ty
14:15	<Appiah> markit: yes
14:15	<markit> alkisg: so good, thanks ( Appiah thanks also)
14:15	<Appiah> you can seperate the DHCP from the LTSP
14:15	just point the tftp server adress to the LTSP server in the config
14:15	<Gadi> stgraber: there are still some problems with local ltspfsmounter
14:16	stgraber: I need help isolating the exact issues there
14:16	<markit> I will try tomorrow or the weekend with a intel based mini-itx board a friend will lend me
14:16	hope PXE is standard enough not to have bad surprises
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14:16	<Gadi> stgraber: also, as vagrantc pointed out, even when we get it working, it will be most useful for rdesktop and not local apps, as the mount will be owned by root
14:18	<Appiah> markit: for the client?
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14:45	<markit> Appiah: yes, for the client
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14:54	<stgraber> Gadi: do we have a test package for it or should I build one myself ?
14:56	<Gadi> i think you have to roll your own
14:58	<vagrantc> stgraber: i was hesitant to upload since there were some clear breakages...
14:58	although the defaults work fine, i guess.
14:58	so i could still upload to experimental :)
14:59	<Appiah> markit: well if it's intel i'm sure it works ;)
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14:59	<Gadi> since when do clear breakages stop us?
14:59	:)
14:59	<Appiah> thats nice to hear! :D
14:59	<vagrantc> Gadi: stop us, rarely. stop me, often. :)
15:00	<Appiah> "Oh a update" , update -> broken "f****"!
15:00	<markit> Appiah: he lends me because he had a windows/linux based rtp for thin clients, and ftfp.exe.. but that Intel motherboard did not pass the first boot stage
15:00	<Appiah> what happend?
15:01	<markit> Appiah: maybe is his configuration broken, or uses a linux kernel that is not good.. let's see with ltsp
15:01	Appiah: it complains about missing LAN nic, as far as I remember... even if it starts loading from the server (so nic works for sure)
15:02	<Appiah> did you try gPXE? it's great for troubleshooting pxe booting
15:03	<markit> Appiah: ehm.. what is it?
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15:03	<markit> let's google for it
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15:03	<Appiah> it's a boot cd (or you could put it on usb) with drivers for most network cards
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15:03	<Appiah> it's like an little envoirment you can test things from
15:04	<markit> Appiah: and does it have exaustive troubleshooting error messages if something goes wrong?
15:04	<Appiah> did you try to boot with a laptop or something? (It is PXE irght?)
15:04	markit: something like that yes
15:06	<markit> Appiah: mmm I tried with a netbook, but don't remember if it failed or not, seems it failed to me
15:06	I will do more accurate tests expecially with your suggestion of gPXE
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15:23	<stgraber> vagrantc: around ?
15:24	vagrantc: how comes Debian has ltspfs 0.5.8 when latest upstream seems to be 0.5.7 ? :)
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15:28	<stgraber> or something is completely wrong with my bzr but it doesn't appear that way ...
15:29	ah, found the issue :)
15:29	I'm using /ltsp/ltspfs-trunk and not /ltspfs/ltspfs-trunk
15:30	vagrantc: should we just remove lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltspfs-trunk ?
15:31	* vagrantc wonders how that got there
15:32	<stgraber> typo in a bzr push I'd say
15:32	<vagrantc> yeah, i'd say we should kill that.
15:32	ltspfs has it's own project.
15:32	<stgraber> ok, I'll flag it so it doesn't appear on LP but we can still restore it if it was there for some weird reason
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15:40	<stgraber> just built a test package (uploaded to my ppa), will try it tonight or tomorrow morning
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15:46	<vagrantc> stgraber: did you upload 0.5.9 to your ppa?
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16:05	<ogra> tsk ...
16:05	ltspfs really deserves a 1.0 some point :)
16:06	<warren> ogra: I look forward to ltspfs-0.5.247
16:06	<ogra> haha
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17:01	<warren> https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/NBDRootConfiguration
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17:09	<ogra> cute !
17:11	warren, you forgot to mention on the pro side that it uses significntly less bandwith throught the image compression ... and you forgot to mention on the con side that decompressing uses more CPU power ;)
17:11	<warren> ogra: we had this for about 6 months, I just didn't document it until now, I needed a workaround because somebody else fucked NFS server.
17:11	ogra: although due to NFS overhead, it is still faster even for slow clients
17:11	<ogra> definately
17:12	<Gadi_eeepc> is the following statement correct: -L and -R can only be used on a master ssh connection but not on subsequent connections that share the same socket?
17:12	<ogra> i got the e1000 from 5 min down to 1.5 min boottime with nbd
17:12	or 2min rather
17:12	but it was massive on that crappy HW
17:12	<warren> I haven't tried the ebox for a while, gonna see how fast it is now.
17:13	<ogra> it didnt help with the speed of X though, but bootspeed improvement was noticeable
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19:01	<stgraber> Gadi_eeepc: hey, I have a magic script that checks for new squashfs image on the nbd server and prompt for reboot if it finds one, will you have a sec to have a look at that code ?
19:10	http://pastebin.com/f1a5b3d55
19:11	suggestions/better way of doing it/... are welcome
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20:04	<stgraber> /usr/bin/install -c ltspfs_umount /home/stgraber/code/pkg/ltspfs-0.5.8+bzr91/debian/tmp/usr/sbin/ltspfs_umount
20:04	/home/stgraber/code/pkg/ltspfs-0.5.8+bzr91/debian/tmp/lib/udev
20:04	Gadi_eeepc: ^ ?
20:04	/bin/bash: /home/stgraber/code/pkg/ltspfs-0.5.8+bzr91/debian/tmp/lib/udev: No such file or directory
20:04	make[3]: *** [install-data-local] Error 127
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20:04	<stgraber> has something been moved from /lib/udev to somewhere else ?
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20:22	<stgraber> warren: hey, I forgot, is fedora using nbd now ?
20:24	<warren> stgraber: non-default, works fine
20:25	<stgraber> ok, I worked on http://pastebin.com/f1a5b3d55 today and was looking for people for a quick code review just to make sure it won't break everything :)
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20:32	<warren> stgraber: what does current squashfs mean
20:34	stgraber: what exactly does this do?
20:35	<stgraber> it's checking for the squashfs generation date of both the current root filesystem and the one on the server
20:35	<warren> how does that help?
20:35	<stgraber> if they don't match it's because the one on the server is more recent so at next logout it'll ask the user if he wants to reboot to get it
20:36	<warren> is the system already corrupted at this point?
20:36	<stgraber> no
20:36	<warren> how?
20:36	<stgraber> because the image won't be removed on the nbd server until the last socket reading from it is closed
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20:37	<warren> oh right
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20:37	<stgraber> so your system would get corrupted if the nbd link was to break
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20:38	<sbalneav> Evening all
20:38	<warren> i dno't understand how that loop works
20:39	<wpgmb> How do I control sound volume on thin clients?? (ltsp 5 on ubuntu 8.10)
20:39	<stgraber> warren: the loop for the ldm-dialog thing ?
20:39	<wpgmb> hi there 'Pegger! Long time no see
20:39	<warren> stgraber: yes
20:39	stgraber: and where/when does this run?
20:40	<stgraber> it basically makes ldm-dialog to progress from 10% for 10s, giving 10s to the user to cancel the reboot
20:40	so the user sees a progress bar and a message, he can at this point click cancel, if he doesn't the system will reboot when it reaches 100%
20:40	<warren> I've never seen that syntax in sh before
20:43	<stgraber> it's simply "for i in $(seq 10 10 100); do echo $i; sleep 1s; done" with its output redirected to ldm-dialog which uses values coming on stdin as percent for the progressbar
20:43	<wpgmb> What I mean is, the volume control icon doesn't do anything. I've tried changing the device in preferences, which seemed to work in 8.04, but I'm not having any luck now
20:45	<stgraber> wpgmb: it's probably a mixer mapping issue, some thing clients have that kind of problem where the volume bar displayed in gnome (taken from pulseaudio) affects a useless mixer channel on the device
20:47	<wpgmb> and what's the fix?
20:48	<stgraber> the right one is to have the alsa driver map the Master channel (or PCM, I'm not sure what pulseaudio uses) to something useful, but that's not a quick fix :)
20:49	I guess you can also tell pulseaudio to uses another channel for the mixer but I never did that
20:49	Gadi_eeepc1: you around ?
20:49	<wpgmb> so.... not a quick fix, and the other option you've never tried. Any other options?
20:51	<stgraber> depends what's your goal, if you want the user to be able to change the volume I don't see any but these two. If it's just about getting sound working, you may also be able to write a small script using amixer to set the main channel to the right level and put that somewhere in /etc/init.d or in /etc/rc.local
20:51	<warren> stgraber: when and where would this script run?
20:51	<wpgmb> sound works, but only at full blast... not nice when the kids turn youtube on and I'm barely awake :)
20:52	<stgraber> warren: it'd be a Ixx script for ldm, so every-time ldm is started
20:52	<warren> that's the new packaging change?
20:53	<stgraber> my goal is mainly to have it displayed right after logout as it's the time where the user is the most likely to have time for a reboot
20:53	warren: Ixx ldm rc.d scripts are around for a while now, it's basically pre-greeter scripts
20:54	wpgmb: does muting at least work ? or is it completely broken ?
20:54	<wpgmb> completely broken
20:55	Could this be a hardware/driver issue on the server? I'm wondering, if I were to pop an old PCI sound card in there and disable the onboard Intel sound chip?
20:55	<stgraber> no, the sound is simply sent on the network, the user shouldn't even be able to use the server's soundcard
20:57	do you have pavucontrol installed on the server, it may help making sure it's indeed a mixer issue (and that the applet isn't trying to change the volume on some non-existent soundcard)
20:57	<wpgmb> lemme check...
20:59	is there a paste bin for this channel?
21:00	<stgraber> !paste
21:00	<ltspbot> stgraber: "paste" is try !pastebot
21:01	<stgraber> !pastebot
21:01	<ltspbot> stgraber: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
21:01	<stgraber> here you go
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21:01	<stgraber> vagrantc: ah, the guy I was looking for :)
21:02	vagrantc: you familiar with these $(mkdir_p) in ltspfs' MakeFiles ?
21:02	<ltsppbot> "wpgmb" pasted "do I have pavucontrol?" (19 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/190
21:02	<wpgmb> http://pastebot.ltsp.org/190
21:02	<stgraber> vagrantc: for some reason they just don't do anything on my system making building a package impossible unless I change them by a regular mkdir -p
21:03	wpgmb: hmm, ok, you clearly don't have it. It's a useful tool to have anyway so I'd suggest you install it.
21:03	<wpgmb> I'm wondering if there is a conflict with some codecs?
21:03	<stgraber> wpgmb: no
21:04	wpgmb: pavucontrol let's you see all applications and change their sound volume as well as the different input/output (in your case there should only be your thin client)
21:05	vagrantc: I'm wondering if it's not an autotools weirdness as the few last ltspfs were simple sync from Debian (so, simple binary copy without any rebuild)
21:06	<wpgmb> stgraber: interesting app.... so - having this installed on the server, I go nuts and try a few things?
21:06	<vagrantc> stgraber: no idea ... i'm guessing you're probably using different auto* versions
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21:06	<warren> stgraber: I'll test your script now
21:07	<stgraber> warren: ok, thanks
21:07	<warren> stgraber: what should I name it?
21:08	<stgraber> /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/I00-whatever
21:08	AFAIK the only important thing is to have it starting by a I
21:09	vagrantc: is there a good reason why we're using that $(mkdir_p) thing btw ?
21:09	<vagrantc> stgraber: i don't know that we're using it.
21:10	<stgraber> ok, I don't really see what more it can do that a mkdir -p and can see that it breaks in some case :)
21:10	<vagrantc> the one has been there since the beginning.
21:11	<stgraber> yeah ... and I'm pretty sure I actually managed to build a few ltspfs recently, I don't really get why $(mkdir_p) suddenly == "" here ...
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21:16	<stgraber> vagrantc: what's the autotools you're using ?
21:16	<warren> stgraber: we have no other I scripts?
21:17	<stgraber> warren: I believe we do
21:17	ah, no :) the other one is ltsp-cluster's :)
21:19	<vagrantc> stgraber: autoconf 2.61-8, automake 1:1.10.1-3, automake1.7 1.7.9-9, autotools-dev 20080123.1
21:19	stgraber: automake-1.10 is the default automake
21:20	<stgraber> ok, I think it's the problem, here I have 1.7 as default (and not on my other system I last used to build ltspfs)
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21:22	<stgraber> vagrantc: worked with 1.9
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21:27	<stgraber> vagrantc: I'm uploading it to my PPA for some testing, though it's not a tagged ltspfs so I wouldn't recommend using it. If the tests show no regression and rdesktop works, I'll tag it tomorrow.
21:37	<warren> stgraber: grep /rofs gives me nothing
21:38	stgraber: what the heck is rofs?
21:38	cat /proc/mounts \|grep nbd
21:38	/dev/nbd0 / squashfs ro 0 0
21:40	<stgraber> oh
21:41	<warren> stgraber: what does yours say?
21:41	<stgraber> right, you don't have aufs, forgot about that part :)
21:41	<warren> what should we put here?
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21:41	<stgraber> I have /dev/nbd0 mounted in /rofs then /rofs used by aufs to make /
21:41	so my / is a mix of /cow and /rofs
21:42	<warren> perhaps grep for nbd0?
21:42	nbd0 will only show up in mounts if you're using nbd root
21:42	right?
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21:42	<stgraber> grep for /dev/nbd as we can't assume it'll be nbd0
21:42	if you use nbd_swap /dev/nbd0 can be the swap and /dev/nbd1 be the root fs
21:43	but yeah, replacing the grep /rofs by /dev/nbd should work
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21:52	<warren> stgraber: swap wont show in proc/mounts
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22:37	<mtfpetu> hi
22:37	i am looking for info
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22:42	<alkisg> !ask
22:42	<ltspbot> alkisg: "ask" is Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least 15 minutes after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
22:42	<alkisg> mtfpetu: ^^^
22:43	<mtfpetu> thanks 1st time since ten year
22:45	I use a toshiba portege 2000 as a thin client with pxe boot but i have not the full screen something la a VGA in the middle instead of 1024x768. anyone has an idea
22:46	<sbalneav> Well, first off, what version of LTSP are you running on what server? I.e. ltsp5 on Ubuntu, ltsp4.2 on rhel etc.
22:46	<mtfpetu> ltsp 5 on ubuntu
22:47	<sbalneav> ok, well, probably it's not detecting what kind of video card is in that machine, and is defaulting to "vesa"
22:47	Do you know what kind of video chipset is in the laptop?
22:49	<mtfpetu> ali
22:49	Toshiba Portégé 2000
22:49	750-MHz PIII-M,
22:49	20GB 1.8" hard drive,
22:49	256MB RAM,
22:49	Microsoft Windows XP Professional (Windows 2000 available on the included CD),
22:49	10/100Mb Ethernet et WiFi b
22:49	12.1-inch display
22:49	16MB Trident CyberBlade XP Ai1 graphics
22:49	second battery
22:49	USB 1.1
22:49	no CD-ROM drive
22:50	i have tried trident without succes
22:51	<sbalneav> yeah, the trident driver's.... not very good.
22:51	<mtfpetu> good to know
22:51	<johnny> last real changes i saw were in 2006
22:51	<sbalneav> so if you create a /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf file with:
22:51	<johnny> the hardware is outdated.. nobody has an impetus to work on it
22:51	<sbalneav> [00:ma:ca:dd:re:ss]
22:51	XSERVER=trident
22:52	no change?
22:52	<mtfpetu> i did that before going to this chat
22:52	<alkisg> mtfpetu: also, if you have ubuntu 8.10, you'll need CONFIGURE_X=True
22:52	<mtfpetu> no 8.04LTS
22:52	<alkisg> ok
22:53	<sbalneav> Can you paste what you have in your lts.conf file to the pastebot?
22:53	!pastbot
22:53	<ltspbot> sbalneav: Error: "pastbot" is not a valid command.
22:53	<sbalneav> !pastebot
22:53	<ltspbot> sbalneav: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
22:53	<sbalneav> helps if I spell it right.
22:54	<johnny> sbalneav, perhaps with all the new advancements in the kernel, it is possible that such older hardware might be easier to resurrect at some point
22:54	<ltsppbot> "cdbc" pasted "lts.conf" (8 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/191
22:55	<mtfpetu> pasted
22:55	<sbalneav> mmm, not sure if that woks.
22:56	I'd just do the [mac]
22:56	with the configs right under it, and skip the like.
22:56	as well, I think there needs to be a newline after the [] stanza
22:56	<mtfpetu> it is the normal way of grouping
22:56	<johnny> sbalneav, hot new feature of kernel 2.6.28 in the staging branches
22:56	<mtfpetu> oops
22:56	<johnny> usb ip got merged!
22:56	<sbalneav> really?
22:57	thought that was dead.
22:57	<johnny> i've been upset about the scanner situation in linux
22:57	i can't figure out how to do remote scanning with my hp all in one
22:57	in a nice and clean way
22:57	<sbalneav> We looked at that a LOOONG time ago, but it didn't seem to get anywhere.
22:57	<johnny> well.. 2.6.28 has a new feature in the config for staging drivers, stuff that is in testing
22:57	<sbalneav> Their usbipd was written in ruby, of all things, so I even rewrote it in C and sent it to the guy.
22:58	never heard anything.
22:58	<johnny> as/drivers/branches/
22:58	pretty slick actually
22:59	<warren> usbip upstream kernel?
22:59	<johnny> warren, in the "not supported"
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23:02	<johnny> USB IP support (EXPERIMENTAL)
23:02	CONFIG_USB_IP_COMMON:
23:02
23:02	This enables pushing USB packets over IP to allow remote
23:02	machines access to USB devices directly. For more details,
23:02	and links to the userspace utility programs to let this work
23:02	properly, see http://usbip.naist.jp/
23:02	Depends on: STAGING && !STAGING_EXCLUDE_BUILD && USB && NET && EXPERIMENTAL
23:03	faustino333 has joined #ltsp
23:03	<johnny> and most important..
23:03	Using any of these drivers will taint your kernel which might
23:03	affect support options from both the community, and various
23:03	commercial support orginizations.
23:06	looks like the kernel folks have a new strategy to get stuff merged..
23:06	* johnny approves
23:07	<sbalneav> yeah, and try browsing to http://usbip.naist.jp/
23:08	it's dead for me.
23:09	<warren> You are dead to me.
23:09	* sbalneav : sniff
23:09	<warren> rebooting
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23:14	<cyberorg> http://usbip.naist.jp/ is dead from here
23:14	<johnny> if the code is in the kernel tho.. now it has a place where patches can go :)
23:18	<cyberorg> we are trying to workaround local usb with linux xrdp server, we will use ltspfs using ssh socket tunnel for that and use rdesktop for session
23:19	localapps will not work though, it will need some more hacks
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