IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 30 May 2016 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:49 | <alkisg> sbalneav: how do you know the uid/gid before ssh'ing ?
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| 03:50 | We could have a generic ltsp user, with the necessary uid/gid, and after ssh'ing, we could change its name to $USER
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| 11:00 | <railr> yo
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| 13:41 | <sbalneav> alkisg: If you look down at the bottom of that python authenticator, during the authentication phase, it actually grabs the userid and groupid.
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| 13:41 | Over the ssh connection.
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| 13:41 | But I've thought of a better way, so... :D
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| 14:44 | <alkisg> sbalneav: ah, I was still thinking with the shell context of "ssh -M", master socket created with the users uid/gid before knowing them,
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| 14:44 | but do you mean that paramiko supports creating the master socket _after_ the connection is established?
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| 14:45 | <sbalneav> The authentication happens, and you've got a ssh connection
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| 14:45 | <alkisg> Running as root, right?
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| 14:46 | <sbalneav> Correct
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| 14:46 | <alkisg> Err or lightdm?
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| 14:46 | <sbalneav> Root.
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| 14:46 | <alkisg> OK
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| 14:46 | At what point will the master socket be created?
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| 14:47 | <sbalneav> After we bring across the information needed to start the master socket
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| 14:47 | i.e. the uid and gid of the user that we've authenticated as.
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| 14:47 | <alkisg> And you'll do a second ssh connection using the stored user/pass?
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| 14:47 | <sbalneav> Right, we're still in the auth phase, so we have access to the userid and password.
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| 14:48 | <alkisg> OK so you create a new user first and then spawn the ssh command with that uid/gid
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| 14:48 | <sbalneav> right
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| 14:49 | Then we can bring over all the group information later via the master socket
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| 14:49 | Or, I suppose, we could bring it all over at the same time.
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| 14:49 | <alkisg> Yeah it would be better to have all the user info before any processes start
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| 14:51 | <sbalneav> That shouldn't be hard, since we've now got access to scripting. We can plumb the master socket, pull over the userid and groupid information, all while still in the authentication phase in pam.
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| 14:52 | That's the power of pam-external
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| 14:52 | <alkisg> pam_exec can exec scripts and pass the password to their stdin, but it's less general than pam-external...
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| 14:52 | <sbalneav> right.
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| 14:52 | And it *can't* do the authentication itself.
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| 14:53 | pam-external's one-stop-shop
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| 14:53 | <alkisg> I meant that you could change the original pam-sshauth .c implementation to do something similar to pam_exec, and we would have shell scripting in ltsp then,
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| 14:53 | but it would only be enough for the ltsp needs, it wouldn't be as generic as you envisioned it :)
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| 14:55 | <sbalneav> Right, I want a general purpose tool that ANYONE can use; if we're going to exert effort, we should (wherever possible) produce tools that benefit everyone, instead of tools that just benefit us. The bits that "just affect us" should be scripts that don't require huge amounts of work. The pam-external could (potentially) be used by LOTS of people, which means that we'll (hopefully) have far more eyes looking
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| 14:55 | at it.
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| 14:58 | <sbalneav> With, of course, commensurate bug fixes, feature improvements, etc :D
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| 15:00 | <alkisg> Yup, it's a nice approach. Sometimes there's the opposite danger of overengineering / making things too complicated / never finishing projects, but hopefully ltsp 6 will be finished soon (tm)! :D
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| 15:05 | <sbalneav> If this all goes "The Way I Envision It" (R) (TM), we're going to take a bunch of stuff now (ldm, libpam-sshauth, etc) which is very custom, and very hard to maintain, and replace it with much smaller ((pam/nss)-external) lightdm-webkit-greeter, etc) bits that are easier to maintain, and the glue will be the stuff we've already got competency with: scripting. We're going make LTSP much more "lego-like", and I
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| 15:05 | can't see that that's anything other than "a good thing"
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| 15:13 | <quinox> sounds great
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| 16:30 | <alkisg> stgraber: `ubuntu-upload-permission -a epoptes` says it's in the edubuntu packageset so I can upload it
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| 16:30 | But `ubuntu-upload-permission -a ltsp` says it's in the ubuntu-desktop packageset so I can't upload it
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| 16:31 | ...I think you did give me the necessary rights and I did upload ltsp to xenial, but I'm somewhat confused now, do I still have enough rights to upload new versions to e.g. yakkety?
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| 16:31 | Or does ltsp need to go to the edubuntu packageset?
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| 16:32 | Or do I need to apply as a per-package uploader for ltsp?
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| 16:32 | <stgraber> Hmm, maybe someone ran the packageset script and broke things again
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| 16:35 | alkisg: oh and I'm no longer on the DMB so I can't fix it for you :(
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| 16:35 | <alkisg> :)
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| 16:36 | stgraber: what steps should I do now? Ping someone? File some bug report? Apply as a per-package uploader?
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| 16:36 | <stgraber> alkisg: any chance you can e-mail devel-permissions@lists.ubuntu.com and ask for ltsp, ltspfs and ldm to be put in the edubuntu packageset as this isn't actually shipped by anyone else?
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| 16:36 | <alkisg> Sure, thanks a lot, doing so...
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| 16:36 | <stgraber> alkisg: I'm reasonably sure it's a bug in the update script, but someone needs to fix it :)
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| 17:32 | <Leolo_2> the socket's uid/gid can be changed after it is created
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| 17:33 | or not?
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| 17:37 | <sbalneav> root@ltsp20:~# ssh -MNn -S /tmp/foop -l sbalneav server
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| 17:37 | root@ltsp20:/tmp# ls -la /tmp/foop
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| 17:37 | srw------- 1 root root 0 May 30 12:37 /tmp/foop
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| 17:38 | root@ltsp20:/tmp# chown sbalneav:sbalneav /tmp/foop
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| 17:38 | root@ltsp20:/tmp# ls -al /tmp/foop
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| 17:38 | srw------- 1 sbalneav sbalneav 0 May 30 12:37 /tmp/foop
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| 17:38 | sbalneav@ltsp20:~$ ssh -S /tmp/foop server date
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| 17:38 | sbalneav@ltsp20:~$
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| 17:38 | multiplex uid mismatch: peer euid 1111 != uid 0
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| 17:38 | No. You can't
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| 17:38 | you have to setuid before you ssh
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| 17:45 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Do GPL headers need to be in shell scripts? I'm guessing yes?
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| 17:50 | <Leolo_2> what version of ssh is that?
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| 17:52 | because chowning the socket works on 5.3p1
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| 17:53 | <sbalneav> openssh-client 1:6.7p1-5+deb8u1
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| 17:56 | <Leolo_2> if ((euid != 0) && (getuid() != euid)) {
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| 17:56 | hmmm
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| 17:59 | <sbalneav> It's not a problem, we just need to grab the uid and gid from the remote server before we spawn the ssh, and setgid and setuid to that before spawning the ssh master socket.
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| 18:01 | <alkisg> One way to implement localapps/remoteapps (and general client/server communication) is through the ssh stdio
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| 18:01 | E.g. instead of plain echo LTSPROCKS, to run an "ltsp-session" script that keeps reading from a server-side socket for commands, and echoes them to stdout
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| 18:02 | Then the client side script can launch the ltsp-localapps processes
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| 18:02 | So, if the client side is already setuid/setgid, and even has all the user groups, it's much easier to properly spawn the localapps command
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| 18:02 | <sbalneav> Right.
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| 18:02 | <alkisg> ...an additional benefit to do it like sbalneav says :)
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| 18:03 | <sbalneav> :D
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| 18:04 | alkisg: So, you know nss-extrafiles, right?
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| 18:04 | <alkisg> sbalneav: vagrantc has worked with pam; I declare that I'm completely n00b with it :)
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| 18:04 | I've heard of nss-extrafiles, I know what it's supposed to do
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| 18:04 | But I think it didn't include system groups?
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| 18:04 | <sbalneav> http://pastebin.com/txjBzu6r
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| 18:05 | nss-external + that shell script = nss-extrafiles, with the added benefit that you can have MULTIPLE passwd and/or group files.
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| 18:06 | <alkisg> Woah... /me needs some time to digest that...
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| 18:06 | <sbalneav> So, if you have a terminal, and multiple people log in, you can save each of their passwd and group information in *separate* files, which makes cleaning them out without affecting other users dead simple; just delete the file.
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| 18:06 | No 'grepping' through a single file to remove the lines you're interested in :D
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| 18:08 | <alkisg> OK I can understand the end result, but I'm again missing a lot of background information
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| 18:09 | <alkisg> nss is supposed to be able to provide passwd-like lists, either whole lists or single entries?
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| 18:09 | And group lists too?
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| 18:09 | <sbalneav> right.
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| 18:09 | so nss-external's like pam-external
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| 18:09 | <alkisg> What if it returns duplicate entries etc?
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| 18:09 | <sbalneav> That's what the ;exit does in the awk script; guarentees it only returns the first match.
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| 18:10 | <alkisg> Suppose that user1 logs in to server1 with uid=1000, and user2 to server2 with uid=1000, and nss-external is asked to return all the entries
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| 18:10 | <sbalneav> That's a problem.
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| 18:11 | But that's a problem anyway, since you've now got a server that's got user1 and user2 able to attack each others files.
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| 18:11 | So you'd want to avoid that situation anywy.
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| 18:11 | <alkisg> OK, but what part converts the passwd-like information to structures and lists etc? Is it your own code, or some nss library?
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| 18:12 | Hmm I think glancing through nss-external's code would help me with that... /me reads...
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| 18:13 | <sbalneav> alkisg: My code. The nss-external library
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| 18:13 | <alkisg> !learn ltsp-git as https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/+git
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| 18:13 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 18:14 | <sbalneav> it parses text lines into passwd, group, and shadow structures.
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| 18:14 | <sbalneav> cool, I can make that script even simpler :D
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| 18:17 | <alkisg> OK so nss is stackable, and you've implemented some interface that it expects, and you call the shell script and expect it to provide passwd-like entries...
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| 18:17 | <sbalneav> you got it!
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| 18:17 | <alkisg> And the group will be symlinked like "group" or "passwd" so that it looks in the correct subdir
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| 18:17 | *the script, sorry
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| 18:17 | <sbalneav> Yup, exactly right.
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| 18:18 | <alkisg> Pretty cool!
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| 18:19 | <sbalneav> You begin to see why I'm kinda excited about all this :D
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| 18:20 | <alkisg> sbalneav: what happens when `getent passwd` is called?
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| 18:20 | nss tells to all the stackable modules to list all their users?
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| 18:20 | <sbalneav> then /etc/nss-external/passwd is called with no arguments
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| 18:20 | <alkisg> But which part does the final "merge"?
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| 18:20 | <sbalneav> alkisg: The operating system
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| 18:20 | <alkisg> No no behind the scenes, not at the script level
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| 18:20 | <sbalneav> that's done as part of the entire NSS services. It's "invisible" to you
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| 18:21 | <alkisg> So nss by itself has _some_ support for "multi-" modules/scripts/files...
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| 18:21 | <sbalneav> they're all merged together.
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| 18:21 | <alkisg> But when `getent passwd specific-user` is called, it stops at the first module that it replies that it knows the user?
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| 18:21 | <sbalneav> right, it will automatically merge all of the nss methods together; compat, ldap, eternal, etc.
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| 18:21 | hmmm, not sure.
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| 18:22 | I'd have to test
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| 18:22 | <alkisg> Ah probably not, unless [NOTFOUND=return] is inserted between "compat" and your nss module
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| 18:22 | Err FOUND=return... hmm ok anyway I got it
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| 18:23 | I'm just not sure if it would be simpler to fake a simple ldap server from the passwd entries instead
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| 18:24 | That way we would only need to have the ldap pam client or whatever it is called in the chroot
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| 18:24 | And everything supports ldap, so compatibility-wise it'd be fine...
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| 18:24 | <sbalneav> ah, ok
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| 18:25 | "fake a simple ldap server" heh
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| 18:25 | the ldap network protocol is.... non-trivial :D
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| 18:26 | <alkisg> Using appropriate tools of course, not reimplementing it
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| 18:26 | <sbalneav> Script's now down to:
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| 18:27 | #!/bin/sh
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| 18:27 | VARDIR=/var/lib/nss-multifile
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| 18:27 | DB=${0##*/}
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| 18:27 | test -d "${VARDIR}/${DB}" || exit 0
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| 18:27 | if [ -z "$1" ]; then
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| 18:27 | # No arg supplied, return all
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| 18:27 | cat ${VARDIR}/${DB}/* 2> /dev/null
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| 18:27 | else
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| 18:27 | # Passed an argument, search
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| 18:27 | cat ${VARDIR}/${DB}/* 2> /dev/null | \
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| 18:27 | awk -F: -v search=$1 '$1 == search || $3 == search { print $0; exit; }'
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| 18:27 | fi
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| 18:27 | * sbalneav so happy | |
| 18:28 | <sbalneav> Could probably make it even simpler....
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| 18:28 | <alkisg> Haha no need, it's fine :)
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| 18:28 | The shell part we can handle!
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| 18:29 | You can also put the "cat" outside of the case, i.e. cat | case
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| 18:31 | <sbalneav> #!/bin/sh
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| 18:31 | VARDIR=/var/lib/nss-multifile
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| 18:31 | DB=${0##*/}
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| 18:32 | test -d "${VARDIR}/${DB}" || exit 0
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| 18:32 | # No arguments, return everything
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| 18:32 | test -z "$1" && cat ${VARDIR}/${DB}/* 2> /dev/null && exit 0
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| 18:32 | # Passed an argument, search
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| 18:32 | cat ${VARDIR}/${DB}/* 2> /dev/null | \
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| 18:32 | awk -F: -v search=$1 '$1 == search || $3 == search { print $0; exit; }'
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| 18:32 | BOOM
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| 18:32 | 9 line replacement for nss-extrafiles :D
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| 18:32 | <alkisg> Haha
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| 18:41 | <Leolo_2> I note you do zero verification that $0 is a sane filename. though it's probably not important
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| 18:41 | also : why use awk and not grep?
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| 18:44 | <sbalneav> Leolo_2: $0 is called by the nss-external library and is guarenteed to be either one of "/etc/nss-external/passwd" ".../group" or ".../shadow"
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| 18:44 | <sbalneav> And I use awk because I want to search on a specific column.
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| 18:45 | <Leolo_2> oh, right
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| 18:46 | though I wonder which is faster awk or egrep "[^:]+:[^:]+:$1"
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| 18:46 | not that it matters, really
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| 18:46 | <alkisg> at that point, readability is more important than speed
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| 18:47 | <Leolo_2> one question I have : all the ltsp scripts are written for sh. Given that they will always run on Linux, why not use bash and open up regexes ?
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| 18:47 | <alkisg> There was a trend to replace all bash scripts with sh scripts, to speed up booting
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| 18:47 | 6-7 years ago, in debian and ubuntu
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| 18:47 | It made a lot of difference; bash is very slow
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| 18:48 | <Leolo_2> ls -l /bin/sh
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| 18:48 | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Oct 8 2014 /bin/sh -> bash*
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| 18:48 | $ ls -l /bin/sh
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| 18:48 | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 May 10 16:47 /bin/sh -> dash
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| 18:48 | huh
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| 18:48 | <alkisg> I think we're only using bash in ltsp-build-client because they needed arrays of variables
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| 18:49 | <Leolo_2> ok, sh in RHEL is in fact bash. sh in ubuntu is in fact dash
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| 18:49 | <alkisg> Our scripts should be able to run in both
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| 18:49 | (posh, too)
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| 18:49 | <Leolo_2> right
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| 18:50 | I was under teh erroneous assumption that sh is always bash
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| 18:50 | <alkisg> fedora etc try to use less shell
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| 18:50 | debian etc use a lot of shell, even in initramfs (vs dracut)
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| 18:51 | So the default shell being bash (=being slow) isn't as important in fedora as it is in debian
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| 20:12 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: yup, shell scripts are copyrightable, and default copyright unless otherwise specified is non-permissive ...
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| 20:13 | sbalneav: if in doubt, explicitly state license terms
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| 20:13 | sbalneav: worst that happens is it's not copyrightable, and it doesn't matter
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| 20:13 | sbalneav: the inverse case is that it's copyrightable, and nobody can use it without pestering you all the time
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