IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 3 July 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:43 | <alkisg> Good morning
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| 01:54 | <Vonor> hi
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| 01:55 | can someone tell me please where i define that the client should mount the rootfs ro or rw? I changed the nfs export to be rw, but the clients keep mounting it ro and i can't seem to find where that is specified
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| 02:15 | <sep> Vonor, if there is a area you need to have rw. then just add that to the rw_dirs line in the file $chroot/etc/default/ltsp-client-setup
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| 02:15 | Vonor, or are there a different reason you want to have the whole nfs rw ?
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| 02:16 | <Vonor> sep, i need at least /etc/resolv.conf to be writable, that info comes from dhcp
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| 02:18 | <sep> ou expect that to chage so often that you need it rw during a clients operation ?... and that file is allready listed in bindfiles in the same file i mentioned above. and should be rw able
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| 02:19 | <Vonor> sep, i just saw it is listed there, though the dhcp sends the dns info (can see that at pxe boot) but it doesn't get written to the client's resolv.conf
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| 02:21 | <sep> is the dhcp client configured to do that ?
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| 02:22 | <Vonor> let me see
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| 02:22 | hmm, now where's the conf file? expected it to be in /etc/dhcp3/ but that folder isn't there
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| 02:22 | debian lenny here
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| 02:29 | <sep> dont know sorry.
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| 02:30 | there is no dhcp client package in the chroot. wonder how it deals with renewing the lease.
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| 02:58 | <alkisg> Vonor: for resolv.conf to be written on the clients, some lts.conf parameters are needed
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| 02:59 | <Vonor> alkisg, thanks, do you know which, or can point me to the appropriate doc for it?
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| 02:59 | <alkisg> Sure, the docs are in the topic, let me see the exact name...
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| 03:00 | Vonor: DNS_SERVER=10.160.31.1
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| 03:00 | SEARCH_DOMAIN=ioa.sch.gr
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| 03:00 | Both of them are needed AFAIK
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| 03:00 | Lease renewal is not supported ATM, we hope udhcpc will be included for this...
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| 03:03 | <sep> alkisg how is hardcoding it in lts.conf different from hardcoding it in /etc/resolv.conf ?
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| 03:03 | <alkisg> sep: /etc/resolv.conf gets overwritten on each boot
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| 03:03 | <sep> alkisg, dhcp renewal not supported... this can explain a few things :)
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| 03:03 | <alkisg> sep: it is supported in Jaunty, but only if the user installs udhcpc at the chroot
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| 03:04 | <sep> lenny here
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| 03:04 | <alkisg> Yup, I don't think it supports it
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| 03:04 | We hope next version will, though :)
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| 03:05 | <sep> as long as i know about it it's a minor issue. just have to get away from the practice of never ever ever rebooting the clients
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| 03:05 | (or use reservations)
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| 03:07 | <alkisg> Most dhcp servers will ping before assigning a lease by default, so it shouldn't be causing any problems except for very customized configurations...
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| 03:08 | <sep> ack
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| 03:09 | <Vonor> alkisg, if i fix it with those variables, then it isn't dhcp either
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| 03:12 | <alkisg> Vonor: yes, AFAIK getting dns from dhcp isn't supported on purpose
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| 03:13 | <Vonor> heh, funny, in my lts.conf i don't even have the SERVER variable set
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| 03:13 | <alkisg> No need for that
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| 03:27 | <Vonor> hmm, if i set the rw_dirs variable it is only through tmpfs, but how do i change the nfs mount options?
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| 03:54 | <try2free> hi alkisg
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| 03:55 | what different between MODULE_01 and SMODULE_01? i need to assign soundcard module
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| 03:55 | <alkisg> Hi
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| 03:55 | I don't know
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| 03:55 | <try2free> both same?
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| 04:47 | <otavio> :-)
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| 05:05 | <Vonor> so nobody can tell me where the ntfs mount options are defined?
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| 05:34 | * ogra would look at the ntfs3g documentation for ntfs mount options | |
| 05:34 | <alkisg> I think Vonor meant nfs
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| 05:35 | <ogra> would be handy to say nfs if you mean nfs ;)
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| 05:35 | i was already wondering about the relation to ltsp :)
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| 05:37 | <alkisg> (11:26:52 πμ) Vonor: hmm, if i set the rw_dirs variable it is only through tmpfs, but how do i change the nfs mount options?
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| 05:43 | <ogra> what would that gain you
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| 05:44 | the only relevant part is the tmpfs
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| 06:09 | <Lockeian> Is it possible to have simultaneous logins of the same user in ltsp?
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| 06:09 | <alkisg> Lockeian: possible, yes. Recommented, no.
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| 06:09 | Firefox won't even start if you don't use a different profile.
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| 06:10 | <Lockeian> ah, that ain't good :)
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| 06:10 | <Vonor> hm, trying to create a xorg.conf on an ltsp client...no chance, I run X -configure to have a basic conf file to work with and the whole client freezes
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| 06:10 | <alkisg> Lockeian: firefox -ProfileManager will get you past that, but it's still not recommented
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| 06:14 | <Lockeian> alkisg, thanks for the advice
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| 06:14 | <ogra> Lockeian, if you use something like gnome and/or openoffice you will run into similar probs
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| 06:15 | <Lockeian> yeah, I thought I would
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| 06:15 | It 's something that would be really nice to be do but --- that's life
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| 06:16 | <alkisg> Lockeian: I don't know why you want that, but an easy way for pre-primary schools etc is to have the clients autologin with different users (one user per pc)
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| 06:17 | <ogra> well, there are surely possibilities to do that but they would require a lot of hacking
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| 06:17 | i.e. you could create a tmpfs that gets mounted as home on login, while the user is logged in he works in the tmpfs for example
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| 06:18 | but thats massively memory consumng
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| 06:18 | and a lot of hacking would be involved
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| 06:19 | Vonor, you shouldnt adjust xorg setting through xorg.conf if possible ... thats what lts.conf is for
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| 06:20 | <Vonor> ogra, and lts.conf can load an xorg.conf file through a variable...
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| 06:20 | <ogra> indeed
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| 06:20 | what do you want to adjust ?
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| 06:21 | <Vonor> unless you can tell me how to tell lts.conf to use vboxmouse as driver for the mouse i have to use an additional xorg.conf file
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| 06:21 | looked through the possible variables for lts.conf and couldn't see something for that
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| 06:22 | <ogra> not sure lenny still used the configure-x.sh script (its quite an old ltsp version) if it does, have a loot in that script, there are options to enable a second mouse entry through lts.conf
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| 06:23 | i dont think they are prominently documented though
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| 06:23 | (configure-x.sh was a hack to breidge the time until xorg uses hal as it does today for all input drivers)
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| 06:23 | *bridge
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| 06:24 | <Vonor> it would really be enough already if i could at least create an xorg.conf via X -configure
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| 06:24 | <alkisg> Vonor: did you install the vbox drivers in the chroot?
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| 06:24 | <ogra> thats what configure-x.sh does too
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| 06:25 | beyond that you should have a default xorg.conf after boot
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| 06:25 | <ogra> just put SCREEN_02=shell and SCREEN_07=ldm in your lts.conf ... then log in on tty2 and scp teh xorg.conf from teh running system to the server
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| 06:25 | <Vonor> alkisg, yes
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| 06:27 | <alkisg> Vonor: how? I wasn't able to install them in Jaunty, because vbox complained that it didn't locate a virtual machine (while I was on the chroot trying to install them)
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| 06:27 | Did you do that from a client while it was booted?
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| 06:28 | <Vonor> alkisg, easy, add the lenny-backports to the clients sources.list, install 2.6.30, build-essential, linux-header (also 2.6.30) and install the vbox additions
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| 06:28 | alkisg, i did it from the thinclient which ran from a vm
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| 06:28 | <alkisg> Ah, ok, that's what I though. I can't do that, I use nbd.
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| 06:29 | (the changes won't be permanent)
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| 06:29 | <ogra> apart from being ver messy if you use that chroot with a real client afterwards
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| 06:29 | its like branding it for the vm client ...
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| 06:29 | <Vonor> alkisg, i just remounted / rw and the changes were directly written to the nfs chroot
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| 06:30 | ogra, i currently am still in experimental stadium and since i lack real hardware i do everything with virtualbox :)
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| 06:30 | <ogra> right
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| 06:31 | <ogra> i dont get why you need the vbox mousedriver though, i did all my ltsp development for years fine without it and had usable mice on my clients
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| 06:31 | (like most ltsp devs)
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| 06:32 | <Vonor> ogra, i prefer using the mouse directly instead of clicking into the vbox and use the host key to free the mouse again
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| 06:32 | <ogra> ah, well
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| 06:33 | anyway, copy the xorg.conf thats created during boot over to the server and you got your skeleton
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| 06:33 | <alkisg> Vonor: If you decide that you don't want to use the vbox drivers, and you want a bigger resolution, vbox allows custom vesa resolutions, and thin clients then can use that without drivers. I agree about the mouse thing though, it's a little annoying
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| 06:33 | <ogra> (if your remote fiddling with writable nfs didnt meesi it up completely yet that is)
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| 06:34 | <Vonor> ogra, well, the rootfs is still getting mounted ro at boot time...and that i still need to change...
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| 06:34 | <ogra> you shuldnt
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| 06:35 | it will very likely break if you do stuff like that, it will write things to the readonly setup that shouldnt be there
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| 06:35 | just do what i said above and copy your xorg.conf over, then you can copy it to the chroot and tell ltsp to use it through lts.conf
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| 06:36 | <Vonor> installing software on the client requires a writable rootfs also
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| 06:36 | <ogra> no
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| 06:36 | you *never* handle the ro root *from the client* thats what the chroot command is for
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| 06:36 | it will break the setup
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| 06:37 | <Vonor> explain please how it will break the setup?
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| 06:38 | <ogra> ltsp client chroots are set up in a way that only ltsp pieces get run ... (startup scripts, configurations etc) if you install a package from a running system instead of respecting that it will very likely write stuff to the root that shouldnt be there, shouldnt be started, will overwrite the config etc
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| 06:38 | use chroot and keep the root readonly
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| 06:39 | <Vonor> ah
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| 06:39 | well, for the vbox modules i had to do it that way :P
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| 06:39 | <ogra> i mean, its your system and you are free to do what you like, but dont expect anyone being able to help you if it wont boot anymore for example :)
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| 06:40 | or if specific things misbehave
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| 06:41 | <Vonor> btw, whats the difference between using an image and using the nfs root only?
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| 06:41 | <ogra> he chroot isnt a normal system treating it as such will definately get you into probs
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| 06:42 | the nbd image is way faster uses way less bandwith but requires more maintenance work on changes (you need to rebuild it after changes inside)
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| 06:43 | beyond that nfs readonly root and nbd image are identical
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| 06:43 | <Vonor> how is it faster and uses less bandwidth?
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| 06:43 | <ogra> its compressed so only compressed data goes through your net
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| 06:44 | <Vonor> ah
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| 06:44 | is it enough to just create the image with the ltsp-update-image command, or do i have to configure something to take advantage of it?
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| 06:44 | <ogra> the way nfs gets booted is a lot slower by design ... to have writable bits you need to copy or link them into a tmpfs ... while in the nbd case just a union mount is used
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| 06:45 | nbd is abut three to five times faster in booting
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| 06:45 | <Vonor> can't boot at all currently, cpu is so busy that the vbox aborts all the time
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| 06:45 | <ogra> i dont know what you need to do on debian to use the nbd image, i assume there is more ... wait for vagrantc to show up, he maintains the debian port
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| 06:45 | <Vonor> <-- gentoo, emerging xulrunner :P
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| 06:46 | <ogra> if you want to test nbd and use vbox anyway, i'd suggest ubuntu ... its setting up everything out of the box
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| 06:47 | <Vonor> <-- doesn't like ubuntu
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| 06:47 | <ogra> and its quick to just create another vbox server image
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| 06:47 | well ... ubuntu is where ltsp5 comes from :)
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| 06:47 | <Vonor> i know...and there are still remarks of ubuntu even in the lenny port :D
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| 06:47 | <ogra> you dont need to like it, but its the easiest way to test mbd
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| 06:47 | <ogra> *nbd
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| 06:48 | <Vonor> when i killed the X server on the client and looked on tty7 to see if it's dead i saw something about ubuntuart or something
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| 06:48 | * ogra hopes there are, else it would violate his copyright :) | |
| 06:48 | <Vonor> actually an error message
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| 06:48 | <alkisg> Vonor, ogra is Mr. Ubuntu/LTSP :)
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| 06:49 | <ogra> well, you cant hide your inheritance *g*
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| 06:49 | though its likely rather a warning than an error
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| 06:49 | nothng in debian should depend on any ubuntu stuff (apart from using the core code)
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| 06:50 | <Vonor> as working system for myself i prefer gentoo, but for possible customer setups i prefer debian, just because it's more stable...
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| 06:50 | <ogra> yup, debian is great
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| 06:51 | <Vonor> we thought about using ubuntu, but then 9.04 became stable and my partner upgraded his system...afterwards he had to re-install and the ubuntu idea was dead and burried (I was against ubuntu from the start :D)
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| 06:52 | <ogra> what broke ?
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| 06:52 | <alkisg> Yeah LTS releases are more tested in ubuntu..
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| 06:52 | <ogra> did you file bugs ? :)
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| 06:52 | <Vonor> I'd even use a gentoo system, for the sake for customization that is possible through useflags...why would a customer want to waste any resources on stuff he doesn't need? :)
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| 06:52 | ogra, dunno, i didn't care and since we still are physically to far away from each other i couldn't look at it either
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| 06:53 | * ogra has fifteen systems around his office .... about five of them were constantly upgraded release to release and never had issues | |
| 06:53 | <Vonor> north east england and north east germany...if that gives you an image of the distance :D
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| 06:53 | <ogra> (since 2004)
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| 06:54 | did he upgrade from 8.10 to 9.04 after 9.04 was released ? or did he come from an unstable version and tried to upgarde to final ?
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| 06:55 | <Vonor> really, i like how ubuntu works, setting up everythig automatically, most hardware works out of the box and what not (my acer laptop keybopard for example, all multimedia keys worked out of the box, while i still had to setup some manually on gentoo, even with hal)
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| 06:55 | he came from 8.10
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| 06:55 | <ogra> intresting ...
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| 06:55 | any foreign software installed ?
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| 06:55 | <Vonor> yes, planeshift, since we both are gamemaster for that game :)
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| 06:55 | <ogra> usually it doesnt break if you stick to the rules :)
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| 06:56 | <Vonor> planeshift has it's own installer that gives you the choice of global install or local in your home dir...not sure which he picked
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| 06:57 | <ogra> ubuntu simply focuses on your mother ... if you hack up the system (which your mother wouldnt) then indeed things can break and you are expected to have he knowledge to fix it yourself or with the ubuntu support
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| 06:58 | <Vonor> another thing i don't like about ubuntu is how it treats sudo...almost every ubuntu user i met so far uses sudo for crap they could execute as user too
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| 06:58 | <ogra> yeah ... lack of knowledge
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| 06:58 | <alkisg> "(02:56:43 μμ) ogra: ubuntu simply focuses on your mother ..." ogra, allow me to quote that sometimes :P :D
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| 06:58 | <Vonor> i have seen things like "sudo ls"
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| 06:58 | <ogra> its being worked on
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| 06:58 | policykit gets more ad more integrated and uses way finer ACLs
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| 06:59 | alkisg, feel free :) its my favorite sentence :)
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| 06:59 | its usually something everyone understands
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| 06:59 | <Vonor> nothing against sude, i use it to easily gain root access without typing my password all the time but i use linux long enough to know to be careful with root access and don'T do stupid shit :)
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| 06:59 | <ogra> (though i have met children of rocket scientists where that didnt work :) )
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| 07:00 | <alkisg> Heh
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| 07:04 | <Vonor> ogra, to give you an idea what we have to deal with regarding ubuntu: http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?action=search2 search for ubuntu there :) and that aren't even the guys who come to irc :P
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| 07:05 | <ogra> requires an account
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| 07:05 | but i know what kind of guys you talk about
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| 07:05 | i do first level user support often enough
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| 07:15 | <Vonor> ogra, first level support for ubuntu must be a pain in the .... :P
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| 07:16 | <ogra> its funny :)
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| 07:17 | <Vonor> i installed ubuntu on my moms box, though she doesn't have issues, she's jut not the kind of woman that can move a mouse properly...
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| 07:18 | <Vonor> when i give her support it almost always ends in me yelling at her on the phone, or grabbing her head and move it very close to the screen yelling "see that?!" when i am at their home :D
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| 07:19 | <ogra> oh man
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| 07:19 | my mom support usually turns out to be solved with 3-5 mouseclicks
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| 07:20 | <Vonor> you know, using skype is a real pita, she accidently enter random keys in the buddylist search and wondered why all her buddies disappeared from the list :P
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| 07:20 | once she managed to get to know the virtual desktops and almost went insane on that :P
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| 07:21 | <ogra> yeah, i got a phone flatrate ... i wouldnt give her support if the system was in use
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| 07:21 | ...and she knows that she only has to do what i tell her while she gets support
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| 07:22 | no pressing of random keys or clicking on randome things
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| 07:23 | <Vonor> my mom still hasn't got that...well, the noclickypress thing she got...but not the random "but now it says..." "I know, just do what i tell you, the rest doesn't matter" "but now it says..."
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| 07:23 | <ogra> well, thats just a matter of patiency on your side :)
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| 07:23 | you know that in advance ... just be prepared
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| 07:24 | <Vonor> hehe, i remember the first time my mom used a compy...i showed her around on my box a little while i was setting up her first box...
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| 07:24 | <ogra> have a book with you and wait until she's done telling you :)
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| 07:24 | <Vonor> she lifted the mouse and moved it around and stead of moving it on the table :D
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| 07:25 | <ogra> at least she didnt speak into it :)
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| 07:25 | <Vonor> i have no problems advising newbies or even noobs, at least thats my job as a GM too...but giving my mom support drives me nuts :D
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| 07:27 | supporting someone on irc is also a lot different than rl support...you can curse all you want, or facepalm and just laugh at stupidity and noone will ever notice :)
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| 07:27 | and you still give professional support while laughing your ass off :)
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| 07:27 | brb, smoke
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| 08:01 | <maginot> good morning. =)
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| 08:08 | <cyberorg> intelliant, you will have better luck here, sbalneav is the creator of ltspfs
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| 08:10 | <intelliant> sbalneav, hi
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| 08:53 | <Vonor> hmm, xorg in ltsp doesn't create a log file, does it?
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| 08:57 | <ogra> sure, in /var/log on the client
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| 08:58 | <Vonor> hmm, looked there and only saw the one from the manual X try
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| 09:14 | <Vonor> ogra, i re-installed the vbox additions from the chroot on the server again, gave lts.conf an xorg.conf that has mouse and video drivers loaded, though when i fire up the thin client it only has vboxadd loaded, vboxmouse and vboxvideo are not loaded
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| 09:14 | any idea?
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| 11:28 | <edgamen> hi
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| 15:15 | <alkisg> stgraber: while in the initramfs, ctrl+c doesn't stop the script execution, and I have to reboot every time I want to try something new... Any way to enable it?
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| 15:32 | <stgraber> alkisg: not sure you can, you could try alt+sysrq+k maybe it'll work, that's supposed to kill the current process
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| 15:32 | <alkisg> ty
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| 15:39 | <edgamen> hi, this is the problem: a pc with edubuntu was working fine like thin client server. we need to make a big deployment of thin client servers for many public schools and I create a installation backup of that "good" pc with remastersys and... cool ... installation time reduce drastically but after a few simply configurations of the network interfaces and dhcp, the clients dont login to the...
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| 15:39 | ...server. I tried to fix with ltsp-update-sshkeys, ltsp-update-image and does not work, I updated system and remove the chroot and rebuild the client... nothing. So I need your precious help. PD. original disk still working fine. Thanks.
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| 15:44 | note: I made a new installation with this backup cd
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> edgamen: are you near a broken server?
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| 15:47 | <edgamen> yes
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> edgamen: are the ethernet names starting from eth0, or from e.g. eth2 ?
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| 15:47 | (ifconfig -a)
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| 15:48 | <edgamen> eth0 and eth1
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| 15:48 | eth1 is for dhcp
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> Any error message on the clients?
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| 15:50 | <edgamen> no they are loading the image fine and show the authentication screen
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| 15:51 | but when i try to log on the screen restart
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> Ah, ok. Try to put these 3 lines in lts.conf:
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| 15:52 | [Default]
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| 15:52 | SCREEN_02=shell
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| 15:52 | SCREEN_07=ldm
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| 15:52 | Then, reboot the client, press Alt+Ctrl+F2 and enter the command: ssh server
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| 15:53 | <ogra> it restarts ?
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> What does it say there? (hi ogra :))
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| 15:53 | <ogra> you dot get "this workstation isnt authorized" or something like that ?
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> ogra: that message is no longer displayed :(
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| 15:53 | <ogra> ugh, who removed it ?
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> In any case "no response from the server, restarting..." is displayed
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| 15:53 | * ogra really eeds to do some ltsp work again | |
| 15:54 | <alkisg> ssh-screen-scraping is different now, we hope sbalneav will get to that some time when he has time
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| 15:54 | * ogra has a patch for the /dev/pts not mounted warnong since ages on hos disk but never adjusted it for ltsp :/ | |
| 15:55 | <ogra> hmm, looks like the "i" on my kbd moved :P
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> Uhm, that sounds onterestong :P
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| 15:55 | <edgamen> ogra, tehy doesnt restart, the screen only blinks
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| 15:56 | <ogra> edgamen, check ~/.xsession-errors sounds more like a desktop/session problem
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| 15:56 | * alkisg bets a beer it's ssh related :D | |
| 15:56 | <ogra> or that
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| 15:57 | in any case its the server side
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> Ubuntu: brought to you by Microsoft: http://www.tuxradar.com/content/ubuntu-brought-you-microsoft
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| 15:58 | <ogra> thats fixed since a while
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| 15:58 | at least i was told so ...
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> Next thing we'll see Canonical shiping windows? :D
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| 15:58 | <ogra> nah
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| 15:59 | bill gates being spotted running ubuntu
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| 16:03 | <edgamen> please wait ;-)
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| 16:23 | <edgamen> it's a shame. My server freeze like a Win2 :-(
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| 16:44 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "slightly flexible pxelinux configuration" (72 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/400
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| 16:44 | <vagrantc> ah, lost alkisg
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| 19:32 | <akSeya> hi there!!
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| 22:24 | <akSeya> i was talking with johnnie (as far as I remember) about LTSP gentoo wiki
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| 22:25 | he found some problems on it, and I found some problems on ltsp-build-client for gentoo
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