IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 24 August 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 04:47 | <cyberorg> jocarter, while you are on ldm theme, do you get input field jump?
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| 04:58 | <jimjimovich> we get the field jumping, not sure why
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| 05:35 | <jimjimovich> how do I check and set the color on the clients ... like 16bit or 24
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| 05:47 | <alkisg> xwininfo -root, X_COLOR_DEPTH
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| 05:54 | <cyberorg> alkisg, sent this while you were away "jocarter, while you are on ldm theme, do you get input field jump?"
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| 05:54 | <alkisg> cyberorg: yeah I think there's even a bug report filed for that one
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| 05:55 | <cyberorg> jimjimovich, alkisg , good to know we are not alone with that bug :)
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| 05:59 | <jimjimovich> yeah, it's on every one of our terminals
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| 06:11 | <cyberorg> alkisg, can't find the bug report, got link?
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| 06:12 | https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk needs link to bug tracker
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| 06:13 | <alkisg> cyberorg: I don't have a link handy, if you can't find it, it might mean it's not there after all :)
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| 06:20 | <cyberorg> alkisg, ok
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| 06:24 | <knipwim> cyberorg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1017871
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| 06:24 | the login window move bug ^^^
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| 06:39 | <jimjimovich> for some reason, my fat clients don't see any of the printers. I have CUPS_SERVER set in lts.conf ... do I need to do something different for fat clients?
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| 06:40 | <cyberorg> knipwim, the jump i am talking about is before anything is typed in the field
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| 06:40 | but could be related
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| 06:40 | * alkisg hasn't seen that | |
| 06:40 | <jimjimovich> our jim in different directions. sometimes before, but most often after entering login details and hitting enter
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| 06:42 | <cyberorg> the jump is just adjusting the field and the logo to the center of screen
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| 06:42 | i tried all ubuntu and debian themes as well, same there too
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| 06:58 | <alkisg> cyberorg: I think that the "related branches" there are meant for branches that contain fixes, i.e. for merge requests, not for the upstream tree...
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| 06:58 | <jimjimovich> I asked yesterday about thin clients booting with half the screen all messed up and half the screen the boot screen. Just in case someone else was having that problem, it was due to the color depth. Setting it to 24 bit solved the problem
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| 06:59 | <cyberorg> alkisg, don't know, but at least it shows up on ldm-trunk page under related bugs
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| 07:00 | https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk here, all the ldm bugs should actually show up there, or have this link https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.searchtext=ldm
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| 07:01 | <alkisg> cyberorg: dunno, then why is the [bugs] tab on top?
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| 07:01 | In any case we certainly shouldn't have to do that per bug
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| 07:02 | It should be done from some central configuration once, globally, not once for each bug
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| 07:03 | <cyberorg> yeah, "link to a bug report" seems redundant, but i am sure lp devs have good reason for it
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| 07:03 | <alkisg> I think it's for merge requests
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| 07:04 | I.e. clone a branch, fix a bug, send a merge request with that "link to bug report" feature
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| 07:04 | <cyberorg> that makes sense
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| 07:11 | * Hyperbyte is affected by the window shifting bug as well. I have one setup (fat) where it happens and one (thin) where it doesn't happen. Not sure if that's of any help. :) | |
| 07:12 | * Hyperbyte adds to the report | |
| 07:12 | * alkisg thinks this started when WWM was used in the implementation... | |
| 07:12 | <Hyperbyte> I don't have it with 12.04 thin client setup, and I do have it with 12.04 ltsp-pnp fat client setup
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| 07:13 | <jimjimovich> it happens in our ltsp-pnp thin clients
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| 07:13 | by the way, I love this ltsp-pnp, thanks alkisg!
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| 07:13 | life is so much easier now :)
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| 07:13 | <alkisg> You're welcome... about the printers, enable printer sharing on the server
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| 07:14 | Or use CUPS_SERVER=server, that might work too
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| 07:14 | <jimjimovich> oh yes, you told me this 2 years ago when I set up 10.04 ;)
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| 07:14 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah, I second that. For fat client setups, where you can have one server dedicated to LTSP and nothing else, it's really awesome. :)
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| 07:14 | <jimjimovich> CUPS_SERVER= is set, but I probably didn't enable sharing correctly
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| 07:14 | <alkisg> Either one or the other
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| 07:14 | <jimjimovich> but actually, i fixed the clients, so they're now thin instead of fat
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| 07:15 | <alkisg> They're 2 different methods
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| 07:15 | <jimjimovich> oh, i see
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| 07:15 | <alkisg> Ah, if they're thins, then there's no need for printer sharing (nor for ltsp-pnp...)
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| 07:15 | ...unless if you're using localapps
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| 07:15 | <jimjimovich> so perhaps having CUPS_SERVER= set was actually causing the problem for the fat clients?
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| 07:16 | oh yeah, i remember now, sharing had to be turned on or we couldn't print from Firefox (as localapp)
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| 07:17 | <alkisg> There are 2 different printer sharing methods, one is plain cups sharing, and the other is to forward all local printers to the ltsp server with jetpipe
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| 07:17 | Better not use both of them, it might confuse you
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| 07:17 | Anyways, bb
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| 07:17 | l
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| 07:18 | <jimjimovich> Oh, I'm confused alright ;)
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| 07:21 | <Hyperbyte> cyberorg, come to think of it - wouldn't you like to be listed on www.ltsp.org/support/ as organisations that offer professional LTSP support?
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| 07:22 | <cyberorg> Hyperbyte, why not :)
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| 07:40 | <Hyperbyte> cyberorg, do you have a logo?
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| 07:47 | <cyberorg> Hyperbyte, not really, will have to look
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| 07:58 | <cyberorg> Hyperbyte, how big you need?
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| 07:59 | <Hyperbyte> I'd say about 120x35, max.
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| 08:02 | And a little descriptive text about what you do. :) (3-4 lines max)
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| 08:02 | (I could pluck this from your website as well)
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| 08:03 | PM it to me please. :)
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| 08:20 | <cyberorg> Hyperbyte, sent you pm, got it?
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| 08:22 | <Hyperbyte> Yessir
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| 08:36 | <cyberorg> Hyperbyte, _UsUrPeR_(jsass) used to do testing of kiwi-ltsp on diskless workstations hardware, is he still around?
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| 08:39 | <Hyperbyte> !seen _UsUrPeR_
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| 08:39 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: _UsUrPeR_ was last seen in #ltsp 12 weeks, 0 days, 14 hours, 11 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <_UsUrPeR_> ok, outta here guys.
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| 08:39 | <Hyperbyte> I guess he's outta here. :P
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| 08:39 | <cyberorg> so who does all the testing now?
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| 08:40 | <Hyperbyte> Try e-mailing support@disklessworkstations.com, if Joel still works for DLWS, he can be reached there.
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| 08:40 | <cyberorg> oh, i thought you worked there :)
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| 08:40 | <Hyperbyte> What made you think that? ;-)
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| 08:40 | <cyberorg> well you "own" ltsp.org ;)
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| 08:40 | <Hyperbyte> I don't. :P
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| 08:41 | ltsp.org has webmaster team behind it now! :)
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| 08:41 | Past few months we've been developing a whole new website and wiki
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| 08:41 | <cyberorg> stgraber, hi, your update works fine, only 1 complaint now, FSF address is incorrect in screen.d/ldm
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| 08:41 | <Hyperbyte> We have a few people now who administrate wiki and update website
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| 08:41 | :)
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| 08:42 | <cyberorg> Hyperbyte, looks good, i've put in a hint for the website on lizard post as well
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| 08:44 | <Hyperbyte> cyberorg, I have no idea what that means, but it sounds good. :P
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| 08:44 | <cyberorg> Hyperbyte, mouse over on LTSP http://lizards.opensuse.org/2012/08/23/testing-ltsp-on-opensuse-12-2/
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| 08:44 | <Hyperbyte> Hah. :)
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| 08:55 | <Hyperbyte> http://vimeo.com/47640715
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| 08:56 | (not LTSP related, but still worth watching)
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| 08:59 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: I don't think the logo shifting is thin/fat related, i.e. if you put LTSP_FATCLIENT=False in your fat installation, you should still be seeing the problem, right?
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| 09:00 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, could maybe try that tonight if I have some time
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| 09:00 | The ltsp-pnp setup is at Radio Capelle, I'm at work in Rotterdam office. :)
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| 09:00 | <alkisg> Yup gotcha
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| 09:00 | I think it always happens, it just shows less on certain hardware
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| 09:00 | E.g. cpu/graphics speed, vertical sync or not...
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| 09:02 | <Hyperbyte> Makes sense
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| 09:11 | <Mexandrew> Good morning, ladies and gentlemen
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| 09:11 | <alkisg> Καλημέρα :)
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| 09:13 | <Mexandrew> I'm having an issue with my thin client. Upon loading the PXE image and taking me to the LDM login screen, I input a username and pass (valid, of course), and a normal Ubuntu desktop is supposed to load. However, I onyl get the desktop background image, the screen resets twice, and nothign else loads.
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| 09:13 | tried to google it, but I don't know how to put it on short words.
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| 09:17 | <alkisg> Mexandrew: known problem, an update will come, in the mean time select ubuntu-2d from LDM
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| 09:18 | !ubuntu-2d
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| 09:18 | <ltsp> alkisg: ubuntu-2d: To select ubuntu-2d as your default session, put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=ubuntu-2d"
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| 09:18 | <alkisg> Ah Hyperbyte btw it's LDM_SESSION, don't use LDM_XSESSION as it bypasses the xorg initialization scripts
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| 09:21 | <Mexandrew> Perfect. Let me try it and see if it helps.
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| 09:21 | <alkisg> Mexandrew: not sure if ubuntu-2d is preinstalled, also check if you have the package, if not, install it
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| 09:22 | unity-2d is the package name
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| 09:22 | (server side)
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| 09:22 | <Mexandrew> Already installed, it seems.
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| 09:23 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 09:25 | <Mexandrew> I hadn't fiddled with lts.conf yet, so, would a simple:
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| 09:25 | [Default]
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| 09:25 | LDM_SESSION="insert content here"
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| 09:25 | work?
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| 09:25 | <alkisg> Yes, in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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| 09:25 | (or just select it from ldm, without modifying lts.conf)
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| 09:26 | You don't even need a client reboot to select from the ldm session menu
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| 09:26 | Preferences => select session => ubuntu 2d
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| 09:27 | <Mexandrew> Ah, perfect. I'll probably mod the config file, as I'm trying to make this fully automatic.
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| 09:27 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 09:27 | The update should automate it when it comes though
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| 09:29 | <Mexandrew> In case you're curious, I'm trying to set up a server for 15 thin clients. Server will also run 2 VMs with a certain commercial OS. Each thin client is supposed to log in automatically and also bring up an rdesktop cleint already set up to show a session in said VMs.
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| 09:29 | And alright. I had already ironed out all the problems back then, but I had used Ubuntu 10.04.
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| 09:29 | <alkisg> If you only want rdesktop, there's a screen script to run that before login
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| 09:29 | I.e. SCREEN_07=xfreerdp <params>
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| 09:30 | <Mexandrew> I decided to use 12.04 this time, and I've been trampling through a slew of new small issues, heh.
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| 09:30 | Hrm, I'll have to read the manual about that, thanks for the heads up.
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| 09:37 | Perfect, it works now. Thank you very much for your help!
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| 09:38 | <alkisg> np
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| 09:39 | <Mexandrew> Also, excuse my relative "noobness". My boss went crazy and asked me to design a thin clients server system thing, heh. Cracked my skull over the course of three weeks for the "prototype". It wouldn't have succeeded without people like you.
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| 09:39 | Have an excellent day!
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| 09:40 | <alkisg> You too
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| 09:45 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, if I change LDM_XSESSION (which is right now in my config) to LDM_SESSION, do I run the risk of breaking anything?
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| 09:45 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: 12.04? Nope. 10.04? I think it doesn't work there.
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| 09:45 | Hyperbyte: for 12.04+ though (ltsp-pnp), you'd better use LDM_DESKTOP
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| 09:45 | <Hyperbyte> This is the Rotterdam setup. :)
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| 09:46 | <alkisg> LDM_SESSION it is , then
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| 09:46 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 09:46 | Let me see what I have in Capelle
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| 09:47 | <alkisg> LDM_DESKTOP has a simpler syntax, you just specify the session .desktop file name
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| 09:47 | <Hyperbyte> In Capelle I have LDM_SESSION="gnome-fallback"
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| 09:47 | <alkisg> Err that's wrong syntax, I think we only support it in case the user does a mistake :D
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| 09:47 | <Hyperbyte> =D
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| 09:47 | Well this user does a mistake!
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| 09:48 | So that should be LDM_DESKTOP="gnome-fallback" ?
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| 09:48 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 09:48 | That allows the user to select a different session if he wishes
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| 09:48 | <Hyperbyte> Oh
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| 09:48 | <alkisg> If you wish to enforce a session, it's LDM_FORCE_DESKTOP
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| 09:48 | <Hyperbyte> Do not want. :)
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| 09:48 | <alkisg> Which also disables the menu
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| 09:48 | <Hyperbyte> Heh
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| 09:49 | So LDM_FORCE_DESKTOP=gnome-fallback or LDM_FORCE_DESKTOP=True/False?
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| 09:49 | <alkisg> 1st one
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| 09:49 | I think I've documented all those in the new lts.conf.xml
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| 09:49 | <Hyperbyte> Okay, so I don't use LDM_DESKTOP, but I do use LDM_FORCE_DESKTOP
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| 09:49 | <alkisg> Right
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| 09:49 | <Hyperbyte> Gotcha.
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| 09:55 | <piet> @alkisg: Hi, could there be any reason for LOCAL_APPS_EXTRAMOUNTS don't work in my copied image? (The source-dirs are present)
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| 09:55 | <alkisg> Ouch no I only documented LDM_*SESSION, need to update it for *DESKTOP...
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| 09:55 | Hi piet
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| 09:56 | Hm...
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| 09:56 | <piet> @ alkisg: any idea what I could do about it?
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| 09:57 | <alkisg> piet: can't think of anything offhand, needs troubleshooting, are you in the lab?
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| 09:58 | <piet> @alkisg: yes, but the server is allready in target place via openvpn, if U don't mind . . .
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| 09:58 | <alkisg> piet: no problem there, but while troubleshooting, it's nice to have a local and shareable root shell on the clients,
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| 09:58 | the one that we tried to do with the long command that you had a hard time pasting,
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| 09:59 | so, easier ways are: have sshd in the chroot + unlock the root account, or, install epoptes
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| 09:59 | <alkisg> Would you have need for epoptes in general? It's a "lab management tool"...
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| 09:59 | !epoptes
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| 09:59 | <ltsp> alkisg: epoptes: Epoptes is a computer lab administration and monitoring tool. It works on Ubuntu and Debian based labs with LTSP or non-LTSP servers, thin and fat clients, standalone workstations, NX clients etc. More info: http://www.epoptes.org
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| 10:00 | <piet> @alkisg epoptes is installed, but doesn't work either, so lets fix this first ok?
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| 10:00 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 10:00 | x11vnc -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
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| 10:00 | <piet> @ alkisg is it enough to boot the epoptes-client on the client?
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| 10:01 | <alkisg> It needs to run in the chroot to be able to gain local root acces
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| 10:01 | s
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| 10:01 | Otherwise, if it only runs in the session, it allows for lab control, but it doesn't give root access to the clients
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| 10:01 | So let's try fixing epoptes on the master server first
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| 10:02 | <piet> @ alkisg ok
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| 10:02 | <alkisg> Vnc to me from either your pc, or preferably, from a thin client connected to the master server
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| 10:03 | x11vnc -noshm -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
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| 10:05 | <alkisg> piet: wait a bit
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| 10:05 | Don't type
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| 10:09 | piet: epoptes seems to work fine...
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| 10:09 | Let's copy its keys to the second server
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| 10:09 | <piet> @alkisg ok
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| 10:12 | <alkisg> piet: put the first server name there
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| 10:13 | piet: reboot a client that is connected to the second server
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| 10:14 | <piet> @ alkisg takes a moment, have to do telefon-call
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| 10:14 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 10:15 | <alkisg> When you've rebooted the client, then enter piet's password for the second server in the terminal that we share
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| 10:17 | <piet> @alkisg seems to be done
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| 10:17 | <alkisg> OK, put password now...
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| 10:21 | <alkisg> piet: it's now very slow for me, so you'll have to do some things yourself:
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| 10:22 | Go to epoptes again, right click on the client, and select "execute command, open terminal, root, remotely"
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| 10:24 | piet: so, the client doesn't get the extra_mounts lts.conf option
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| 10:24 | Let's check the second server's lts.conf
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| 10:25 | <piet> @ alkisg ok
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| 10:26 | <alkisg> piet: you don't have an entry for that client
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| 10:26 | You need a [mac:address] section for this client
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| 10:27 | And to put the LIKE=mounts etc there
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| 10:27 | <piet> @alkis what does that mean?
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| 10:27 | <alkisg> Or, if you want all clients to get the extra mounts, put EXTRA_MOUNTS in the [Default] section
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| 10:28 | <piet> @alkisg: lilab is it
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| 10:29 | <alkisg> piet: ah, right, it's a syntax error
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| 10:29 | piet: in the lilab entry, you're missing an =
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| 10:29 | LIKE oldmachine
| |
| 10:29 | So it's a syntax error and the client doesn't get the options
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| 10:30 | Let me fix it and reboot the client...
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| 10:30 | piet: check your terminal
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| 10:32 | piet: select "reboot" from there
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| 10:33 | OK, when it does boot, VNC to it to login, and check if the mounts work now
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| 10:33 | You shouldn't need to phone people anymore ;)
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| 10:35 | <piet> @alkisg: thank You for Your help. It's increadible what is possible via internet nowadays!!
| |
| 10:35 | <alkisg> ...and it only took 30', while via email it would need hours :P :D
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| 10:36 | So in short, we copied the epoptes keys from the 1st server to the 2nd, and we fixed an lts.conf syntax error
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| 10:36 | <piet> @ yeah but talking this way is stressy and awful . . .
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| 10:36 | <alkisg> No need to stress yourself... have a cup of coffee while typing like I do :D
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| 10:36 | <piet> @alkisg yeah but talking this way is stressy and awful . . .
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| 10:37 | <alkisg> Anyway, gotta go, talk to you later, ping me again if something went wrong
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| 11:00 | <darthanubis> I'm failing in busybox
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| 12:10 | <jimjimovich2> anyone have problems with jetpipe crashing?
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| 12:10 | it prints once, then crashes and you can't print again without relaunching it.
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| 13:48 | <jocarter> cyberorg: input field jump? haven't seen that. I think there was an issue before where you could accidentally move the login window, but that's been fixed
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| 14:04 | * [GuS] Hello! | |
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| 14:07 | <cyberorg> alkisg, you are epoptes dev as well right?
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| 14:08 | <alkisg> cyberorg: yup
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| 14:16 | <cyberorg> alkisg, many issues on openSUSE :)
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| 14:16 | let me know when you got some time
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> cyberorg: gladly accepting patches or advice
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| 14:17 | cyberorg: even now is a good time, np...
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| 14:17 | <cyberorg> ok, 1st is twisted: /usr/bin/twistd --quiet --oknodo --pidfile /var/run/epoptes.pid --exec /usr/bin/python -- --pidfile /var/run/epoptes.pid --logfile /var/log/epoptes.log epoptes
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| 14:18 | that is run by epoptes.init? is wrong
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| 14:18 | <alkisg> Why so?
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| 14:18 | /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/twistd --pidfile /var/run/epoptes.pid --logfile /var/log/epoptes.log epoptes
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| 14:18 | <cyberorg> --quiet --oknodo --exec all of those are unrecognized
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| 14:18 | <alkisg> That's the actual command line
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| 14:18 | <cyberorg> yes that works
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| 14:18 | <alkisg> The other stuff is start-stop-daemon specific
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| 14:19 | <cyberorg> ok, so that is fine
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| 14:19 | <alkisg> Yup, it just needs different packaging there
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| 14:19 | Maybe a systemd script or whatever else is opensuse using nowadays...
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| 14:21 | <cyberorg> sysvinit/systemd both works
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| 14:21 | second issue running epoptes: http://susepaste.org/27630757
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| 14:22 | <alkisg> cyberorg: do that as a user, not as root
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| 14:22 | The user should be in the `epoptes` group
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| 14:22 | (use newgrp to add yourself to that, without rebooting)
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| 14:23 | <cyberorg> ah cool, gui started :)
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| 14:23 | now i can look at client side
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| 14:24 | <alkisg> $ ls -lha /var/run/epoptes/epoptes.socket
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| 14:24 | srw-rw-rw- 1 root epoptes 0 Αύγ 24 15:50 /var/run/epoptes/epoptes.socket
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| 14:24 | The socket should have epoptes as the group owner
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| 14:24 | For the client side, go to another pc (or vm), put "ip server" in /etc/hosts, and run: sudo epoptes-client -c
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| 14:25 | This should copy the certificate
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| 14:25 | <cyberorg> socket is there
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| 14:25 | <cyberorg> owner is correct
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| 14:25 | <alkisg> Cool, move on with the client side then
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| 14:26 | <alkisg> Phantomas: cyberorg is trying to package epoptes for opensuse ^, stay tuned... :)
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| 14:26 | <cyberorg> can't i do that in chroot?
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| 14:26 | <alkisg> cyberorg: sure
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| 14:26 | <cyberorg> k
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| 14:27 | <cyberorg> Successfully fetched certificate from localhost:789
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| 14:27 | <alkisg> Cool, now you need some client with a gui to run the client to
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| 14:27 | E.g. boot a thin client
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| 14:27 | <cyberorg> is there client side init command?
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| 14:28 | <alkisg> You can manually run epoptes-client first, to try if it works
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| 14:28 | Then you'll need some way to run it (a) as root, e.g. a sysvinit script, and (b) in the user session, we're using /etc/xdg/autostart
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| 14:29 | I.e. for each ltsp client, there are 2 epoptes-client running, one locally on the client, and one as part of the session on the server
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| 14:29 | (it's the same for standalone clients too, a system epoptes client and a session one)
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| 14:36 | <Phantomas> alkisg: back, wow that's great! Thanks cyberorg! :)
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> cyberorg: Phantomas is the other main epoptes dev, there are a couple more but won't work on it as hard as Phantomas
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| 14:39 | <cyberorg> /usr/sbin/epoptes-client: line 189: log_begin_msg: command not found
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| 14:40 | /usr/sbin/epoptes-client: line 225: exec: socat: not found
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| 14:40 | <alkisg> cyberorg: install socat,
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| 14:40 | and about log_begin_msg, it's supposed to be in the lsb package, if not, replace it with 'echo'
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| 14:40 | Also install screen, you'll need it
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| 14:41 | Depends: python, bsdmainutils, iproute, librsvg2-common, procps, python-gtk2, screen, socat, x11vnc, xvnc4viewer
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| 14:41 | Recommends: openssl, xterm
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| 14:42 | <cyberorg> both x11vnc, xvnc4viewer?
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| 14:42 | <alkisg> Yeah
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| 14:42 | It's for monitoring + broadcasting screen
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| 14:42 | <cyberorg> what in bsdmainutils?
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| 14:43 | <alkisg> I think hexdump
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| 14:45 | <cyberorg> we dont have python-gtk2, just python-gtk
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| 14:45 | <alkisg> It should do, since you were able to run the epoptes gui...
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| 14:45 | epoptes-client only has a small python part for locking screen + getting screen thumbnails
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| 14:46 | <Phantomas> (and for messages)
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| 14:47 | <cyberorg> Error: an inet prefix is expected rather than "10.0.0.254
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| 14:48 | <alkisg> cyberorg: try sh -x, so that we know what command that's in
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| 14:48 | It's probably some sed command not stripping away that quote
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| 14:48 | <cyberorg> alkisg, http://susepaste.org/12171668
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| 14:49 | <alkisg> cyberorg: put everything in /usr/share/epoptes, and in /usr/share/epoptes-client, as some paths are hardcoded
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| 14:50 | <alkisg> Hmm...
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| 14:51 | cyberorg: Ah, you need xvnc4viewer or ssvncviewer on the server, /usr/bin/xvncviewer etc
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| 14:51 | <cyberorg> sh -x http://susepaste.org/12885638
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| 14:52 | yeah havent installed those yet, but very happy just to see the GUI open for the first time and detect client at least :)
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| 14:53 | tightvnc wont do?
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| 14:54 | <alkisg> Not out of the box, but if you want to support it, it should be trivial
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| 14:54 | E.g. ssvncviewer needs -multilisten while xvnc4viewer needs -listen, such small differences...
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| 14:55 | <Phantomas> No need, we will replace the external viewers with a library for better integration.
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> Well, until then... :)
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| 14:55 | <cyberorg> dont have either xvnc4viewer or ssvncviewer on suse
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| 14:56 | <alkisg> OK let me check the command line of tightvnc...
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| 14:56 | <alkisg> xtightvncviewer?
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| 14:56 | <cyberorg> or plain old vncviewer
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| 14:57 | <alkisg> We're supposed to fallback to the plain old vncviewer
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| 14:57 | So that might work out of the box...
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| 14:57 | <cyberorg> vncviewer is from tightvnc pacakge
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| 14:57 | http://susepaste.org/97511621 vncviewer -h
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| 14:58 | <alkisg> Gotcha, same as tightvnc here
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| 14:58 | So, what's the progress so far? Seeing a green monitor icon, or getting client thumbnails?
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| 14:58 | (in the epoptes ui)?
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| 14:59 | We don't mind adding support for tightvnc, no problem there, if it proves to have a few uncompatible parameters with the other 2 clients
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| 15:00 | <cyberorg> installed tightvnc, still same error
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| 15:00 | <alkisg> You don't need either just to have thumbnails
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| 15:00 | <cyberorg> does not fall back to vncviewer
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| 15:00 | <alkisg> Those are for later on, when you want to broadcast screen or control the clients
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| 15:01 | So, let's leave the vnc part for later on an see if everything else works first
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| 15:01 | <cyberorg> ok
| |
| 15:01 | <alkisg> 1) If you run `epoptes-client` from a thin client *root* console, you should be seeing a green monitor icon on epoptes
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| 15:01 | And you should be able to reboot, shutdown etc the client then
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| 15:02 | 2) Additionally, if you login to the thin client, and run epoptes-client (from the server session), you should be getting thumbnails in the epoptes ui
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| 15:02 | ...and be able to send messages, lock screen etc
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| 15:02 | <cyberorg> works with kde/gnome?
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> ...logout, open terminal, etc etc, and if all those work, let's move to the vnc part
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| 15:02 | Should work with all famous DEs
| |
| 15:03 | <cyberorg> got thunbnail :)
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| 15:03 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 15:03 | <Phantomas> :)
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| 15:03 | <cyberorg> message works!!
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| 15:04 | * alkisg tries tightvnc... | |
| 15:04 | <cyberorg> lock/unlock works too, sorry for flooding :)
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| 15:05 | everything works, except remote control
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| 15:05 | <alkisg> Broadcast?
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| 15:05 | <Phantomas> cyberorg: mute/unmute? It doesn't work in Ubuntu for now (we'll fix it)
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| 15:06 | <cyberorg> Phantomas, mute worked, unmute didnt
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> Same in Ubuntu
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| 15:06 | <Phantomas> ok
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> It worked in previous versions, it's an amixer bug, we found a way to do it with pactl or pacmd, cyberorg are those preinstalled in opensuse?
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| 15:07 | (in chroots, at least...)
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| 15:07 | <cyberorg> yes
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> Cool
| |
| 15:08 | So, what doesn't work, is: teacher broadcasting, student screen monitoring, and control student screen, right?
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| 15:09 | <cyberorg> nothing happens client side when broadcasting
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| 15:09 | <Phantomas> Does SuSe have x11vnc?
| |
| 15:09 | <cyberorg> yes
| |
| 15:09 | but the client needs viewer when broadcasting?
| |
| 15:09 | <alkisg> xvnc4viewer -Shared -ViewOnly -passwd /dev/stdin -FullScreen -UseLocalCursor=0 -MenuKey F13 server:34761
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| 15:10 | That command is ran locally on the client when broadcasting
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| 15:10 | (locally, not on the session)
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| 15:10 | Let's translate that to tightvnc
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| 15:10 | <cyberorg> http://susepaste.org/86435058 when broadcasting on the server this shows up
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| 15:10 | <alkisg> (i.e. you can broadcast even when the client hasn't yet logged in)
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| 15:11 | <cyberorg> client needs x11vnc too?
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| 15:11 | <alkisg> Yes, for monitoring/viewing student
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| 15:11 | If you install it in the chroot, it might work even with tightvnc on the server
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| 15:11 | *monitoring/controlling
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| 15:13 | <Phantomas> vncviewer -shared -viewonly -passwd /dev/stdin -fullscreen {local cursor} {menu key} server::34761
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| 15:16 | <cyberorg> Phantomas, run that on server?
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> cyberorg: no
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| 15:16 | <Phantomas> cyberorg: no
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> cyberorg: log off the client
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| 15:16 | Switch to a console (e.g. alt+ctrl+f1)
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| 15:16 | Kill the root epoptes-client
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| 15:16 | And run: VNCVIEWER=/usr/bin/xtightvncviewer epoptes-client
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| 15:17 | It does seem to work out of the box this way, so we'll only need to fallback to it
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| 15:17 | (broadcasting, I mean)
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| 15:17 | It should then broadcast the teacher screen over LDM
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| 15:20 | Hmm actually it's supposed to be working with tightvnc out of the box, at least broadcasting, let me also check monitoring/controlling...
| |
| 15:21 | <cyberorg> xset: unable to open display ""
| |
| 15:21 | <alkisg> self.vncviewer = subprocess.Popen(['xvnc4viewer', ==> that should become plain "vncviewer" for tightvnc compatibility for monitoring/controlling
| |
| 15:21 | <cyberorg> the command is VNCVIEWER=/usr/bin/vncviewer epoptes-client
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| 15:21 | <alkisg> cyberorg: from the root client shell: /usr/share/epoptes-client/get-display
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| 15:22 | That's supposed to detect the DISPLAY and Xauthority
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| 15:22 | <cyberorg> alkisg, i am trying that over ssh
| |
| 15:22 | <alkisg> If you're root, it shouldn't matter
| |
| 15:22 | <cyberorg> nothing there, empty
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> OK, so we fail to detect your login manager
| |
| 15:22 | <Phantomas> alkisg: -shared -viewonly -passwd /dev/stdin -fullscreen {menu key} server::34761 We don't need a UseLocalCursor parameter since it does this by default (it has nocursorshape to *disable* it only)
| |
| 15:23 | <alkisg> Phantomas: it's the same as ssvncviewer, we already have support for that, right?
| |
| 15:23 | cyberorg: is ldm running?
| |
| 15:23 | (the client should be on the LDM login screen...)
| |
| 15:23 | <cyberorg> alkisg, yes
| |
| 15:23 | http://susepaste.org/21658889 sh -x
| |
| 15:23 | <alkisg> Cool,reading...
| |
| 15:23 | <cyberorg> it is
| |
| 15:24 | tty 7 us ldm, tty 8 is menu
| |
| 15:24 | <Phantomas> alkisg: ah, yes, seems it's the same :)
| |
| 15:25 | <alkisg> cyberorg: is xwininfo installed?
| |
| 15:27 | <cyberorg> works! xwininfo wasn't installee
| |
| 15:27 | <alkisg> Cool, so, do sum up, does anything remain broken?
| |
| 15:27 | <cyberorg> having nfsroot is really nice
| |
| 15:28 | <alkisg> Ah you'll need a 1-line change in gui.py for monitoring to work
| |
| 15:28 | <cyberorg> just "take control" everthing else seems ok
| |
| 15:28 | <alkisg> (06:21:24 μμ) alkisg: self.vncviewer = subprocess.Popen(['xvnc4viewer', ==> that should become plain "vncviewer" for tightvnc compatibility for monitoring/controlling
| |
| 15:29 | We can push that upstream once we see that it works, there's no need to hardcode xvnc4viewer there
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| 15:29 | <cyberorg> or ln -s /usr/bin/vncviewer /usr/bin/xvnc4viewer?
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| 15:29 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 15:30 | cyberorg: if there's some other x* utility like xwininfo preinstalled in opensuse, we can use that instead
| |
| 15:30 | E.g. xprop
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| 15:30 | I only selected xwininfo because it's just a few ms faster
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| 15:31 | <cyberorg> yes xprop is there as i think localapps uses it?
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| 15:31 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 15:31 | <cyberorg> ln -s /usr/bin/vncviewer /usr/bin/xvnc4viewer didn't work
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| 15:32 | <alkisg> Hmmm...
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| 15:33 | cyberorg: try manually running xtightvncviewer -listen
| |
| 15:33 | And then try monitoring/controlling from epoptes
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| 15:33 | Ah sorry no
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| 15:33 | You'd need the port number from the epoptes terminal output
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| 15:34 | Wait, maybe this also need -5500 like ssvncviewer...
| |
| 15:34 | Yup
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| 15:34 | cyberorg: so it needs to be special cased as well
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| 15:35 | cyberorg: lines 5,6,7 there: http://paste.debian.net/185423/
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| 15:36 | <alkisg> In gui.py, and close/open epoptes
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| 15:39 | <Phantomas> (:( damned disconnects)
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| 15:40 | <cyberorg> alkisg, this worked http://paste.debian.net/185424/
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| 15:40 | nice work guys
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| 15:40 | <alkisg> cyberorg: cool, please file a bug in https://bugs.launchpad.net/epoptes with all the required upstream changes :)
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| 15:40 | <cyberorg> command is /usr/bin/vncviewer
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| 15:41 | just that one ^^ rest everything works
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| 15:41 | <alkisg> You don't need to specify VNCVIEWER on the client?
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| 15:41 | <cyberorg> ah that as well
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| 15:42 | <alkisg> cyberorg: hmm actually can you try again?
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| 15:42 | Without VNCVIEWER?
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| 15:42 | It might have been xwininfo missing
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| 15:43 | Dah no, we hardcode it to xvnc4viewer
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| 15:43 | We need to fix it
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| 15:43 | <cyberorg> alkisg, works without VNCVIEWER
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| 15:43 | <alkisg> else
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| 15:43 | VNCVIEWER=xvnc4viewer
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| 15:43 | ==> elif [ -x xvnc4viewer], else vncviewer
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| 15:43 | <cyberorg> that should do
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| 15:44 | now what was the hexdump for?
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> cyberorg: OK I'll commit those 2 changes now, please test when you have some time
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| 15:44 | The hexdump was just a silly way to delay for just a bit,
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| 15:44 | so that not all clients connect at the same time to the server, which causes problems
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| 15:44 | They are scattered with some msecs delay each
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| 15:45 | <alkisg> sleep 0.$(($(hexdump -e \"%d\" -n 2 /dev/urandom) % 50 + 50))
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| 15:46 | <cyberorg> it is part of util-linux-2.21.2-4.2.3.i586
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| 15:46 | we have that installed in the client
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> We can also spawn bash, I think it has a method that returns random numbers
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| 15:46 | But if that's preinstalled, np
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| 15:47 | bash -c 'echo $RANDOM'
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| 15:47 | <cyberorg> ok, so only 1 change required to make everything work, new suse packages will be up tomorrow
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> 2, I think, I'll commit them in 10'
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| 15:48 | <cyberorg> cool, will pull later, got to go now, thanks for all the help :)
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> Thank you too :)
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| 16:35 | <alkisg> cyberorg: pushed, when the opensuse packages are ready ping me to create a news item at epoptes.org :)
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| 17:46 | <darthanubis> I'm failing in busybox
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| 17:47 | I get the Ubuntu splash screen then end up in busy box
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| 17:48 | Does that mean it can't find the image or it is finding the image, but something is wrong with the image?
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| 17:55 | now it just says boot failed , no busybox
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| 18:34 | <qwebirc27352> I need to know a thing client works with LTSP?
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| 18:35 | <knipwim> qwebirc27352: depends on the hardware of the client
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| 18:35 | if you can run linux on it without LTSP, you're safe
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| 18:35 | and pxe boot
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| 18:37 | <qwebirc27352> i talk about thin client equipment, for example HP thin client or others
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| 18:38 | which equipment u recommned to me
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| 18:38 | <knipwim> i have a hp thin client, runs ltsp fine
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| 18:38 | <qwebirc27352> what model u have?
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| 18:38 | <knipwim> an old one
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| 18:39 | let me look it up...
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| 18:39 | <knipwim> HP Compaq t5710
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| 18:41 | <knipwim> performance isn't optimal, i can do all office work without problems, i can't play 720p video and also no fullscreen youtube
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| 18:41 | <knipwim> thinking of getting a more fat client, where video and browser run on the client
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| 18:43 | <qwebirc27352> good
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| 18:43 | thanks!
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| 18:50 | how I know if a thin client equipment works with LTSP? any protocol or something?
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| 18:51 | <knipwim> PXE is an important one
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| 18:52 | and i don't think one of those ultra clients won't work
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| 18:52 | most of them have a proprietary protocol for receiving display information
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| 18:53 | qwebirc27352: if you found one to your liking, show it here before you buy if you're not sure
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| 19:06 | <qwebirc27352> oki doki
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| 19:16 | <qwebirc44824> ok..just got mine up and running...now I want to add users.......I cannot find how to add users. I have tried the useradd cmd, but this is not working
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| 19:17 | ubuntu 12.04 LTSP install
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| 19:20 | <||cw> define "not working"
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| 19:20 | are they not showing up in the passwd file?
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| 19:23 | <darthanubis> trying to load pxelinux.cfg , it just hangs there
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| 19:28 | <darthanubis> oh snap, it was not hung, it was loading
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| 19:30 | now I want to get rid of session ubuntu
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| 19:30 | <qwebirc44824> have you figured out how to add users?
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| 19:30 | <||cw> qwebirc44824: same as any linux system
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| 19:30 | be more specific about the problem is
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| 19:31 | what, exactly, does "not work" mean.
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| 19:31 | <qwebirc44824> well....after looking...the users are created...they just cannot login and a home directory is not being created...
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| 19:32 | this was a Ubuntu 12.04 LTSP install from the ALT cd....
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| 19:32 | <||cw> cannot log into...what, exactly
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| 19:32 | can use ssh and login?
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| 19:33 | <qwebirc44824> cannot login via the thin client. yes, I can ssh, but I dont get a bash shell...I get the minimal shell
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| 19:33 | <knipwim> qwebirc44824: did you specify a homedir for each made user?
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| 19:34 | <||cw> also, useradd's man page recommends to use adduser
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| 19:34 | <qwebirc44824> no, I guess I am used to CentOS...when I create a user in CentOS, it auto makes a /home/ directory.....
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| 19:37 | is there not another command just for LTSP to create users? or do I have to create the user on the server, and in doing they should be able to login via the thin client (PXE boot)
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| 19:37 | <||cw> right, you just create it on the server.
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| 19:38 | all the thin client does is connect to the server
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| 19:39 | <qwebirc44824> right, but it does it in a "chroot" directory, which means that /home is not /home for the thin clients, it is /chroot/..../home
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| 19:40 | <||cw> no, the chroot is the OS image that run ON the thin client. the client then connects back to the server and all auth and everything is done thre
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| 19:40 | <qwebirc44824> ok, awesome....thank you for the info
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| 19:40 | <||cw> if you are running adduser in the chroot, that won't work. run it on the server
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| 19:40 | <qwebirc44824> k
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| 19:53 | <qwebirc44824> man...you have to love Ubuntu 12.04....changing everything I know.......it likes the "adduser" vs the old school "useradd"......anyway...I think I am good to go now....Thanks for everyone's help!
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| 19:59 | <oguz> is there anyway to update the BIOS settings of thinclients in a central way while using LTSP, i couldn't figured it out the /dev/nvram usage
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| 20:38 | <darthanubis> how can I get rid of ubuntu's default unity session all together?
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| 20:45 | <brunolambert> that is going to probably break some things, but I guess this would do it: sudo apt-get remove unity*
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| 20:46 | <darthanubis> you can't just pop an * there :)
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| 20:46 | <brunolambert> yes you can
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| 20:46 | <darthanubis> yeah, well it does not work
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| 20:46 | <brunolambert> tried both, does not remove the same package
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| 20:47 | anyway, it's probably not the good way of doing it.
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| 20:49 | <darthanubis> probably not
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| 21:00 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, you and your ltsp-pnp just scared the crap out of me!
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| 21:00 | <alkisg> Don't let it scare you; carry a cross with you
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| 21:00 | <Hyperbyte> So here I was at the studio - doing an important interview, recording the audio and saving it into my homedir
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| 21:00 | <alkisg> If it insists, try some holy water instead
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| 21:01 | <Hyperbyte> I saved it into my homedir, played it back to make sure it was saved
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| 21:01 | Then called it a day
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| 21:01 | Went home, ssh'd to scp my file to my home server to listen again and edit it
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| 21:01 | But no file
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| 21:01 | It simply wasn't there
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| 21:01 | Went back to the studio, checked the fat client, and it was saved in the /home/janmiddelkoop/ folder on the fat client itself
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| 21:02 | I had already logged out, and there was /home/janmiddelkoop/ in the image (tmpfs overlay I guess?) with my file in it
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| 21:02 | <alkisg> Are you using something like NFS, or the defaults SSHFS?
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| 21:02 | <Hyperbyte> How, o how, great oracle, could this happen?
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| 21:02 | Default.
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| 21:03 | <alkisg> (btw all those have nothing to do with the -pnp part :P)
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| 21:03 | <Hyperbyte> Regardless, I'm blaming you! :-P
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| 21:03 | Hahah
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| 21:03 | Nah, not blaming anyone... just happy I got my file back
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| 21:03 | <alkisg> Hmmm ok, I'm Greek, I think people are used to blaming greeks nowadays :D
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| 21:03 | <Hyperbyte> But I am curious how stuff like this happens. :-)
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| 21:03 | <alkisg> Is the client still on? Can you cat /proc/mounts?
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| 21:04 | <Hyperbyte> No, I rebooted it immediately after scp'ing my file out of there, because I didn't want other people to run into this problem.
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| 21:04 | By the way, someone had logged in after me, and their home dir wasn't locally created
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| 21:04 | The computer has been used by two people after I left, and there was only /home/janmiddelkoop/ on the image
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| 21:05 | <alkisg> Are you using any weird accounts or pam system? LDAP? NIS?
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| 21:05 | <Hyperbyte> When I just went back to check, I didn't dare logging in via ldm, went to tty1 and did a local root login
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| 21:05 | Nope
| |
| 21:05 | I will be using ldap maybe, but so far, everything normal.
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| 21:05 | You could have a look around the server if you wish
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| 21:06 | Also - I don't think it actually copied all my /home/ contents to the fat client, I think it just made a new home dir for me
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| 21:06 | <alkisg> There's some code that checks if /home/jan already exists, and if so, it assumes that it was mounted by some other mechanism (nfs etc), so sshfs isn't used there,
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| 21:07 | <Hyperbyte> Interesting bit, that maybe corroborates your theory:
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| 21:07 | <alkisg> ...actually if it's on a different device...
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| 21:07 | ...but I can't think how that would be, since the cleanup phase empties /home from the chroot
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| 21:07 | <Hyperbyte> Normally I see two subsystem request for sftp by user" when a fat client loser logs in
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| 21:07 | But tonight when I logged in, only one.
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| 21:07 | <alkisg> You have an extra mount somewhere?
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| 21:08 | LOCALAPPS_EXTRA_MOUNTS?
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| 21:08 | <Hyperbyte> Planned, but not yet
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| 21:08 | <alkisg> Let me ssh to the server... PM?
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| 21:08 | <Hyperbyte> I do have USE_LOCAL_SWAP (not that it's there) and NBD_SWAP=True
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| 21:08 | Ooh, sure
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| 21:08 | ummm
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| 21:08 | Yeah okay, moment
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| 21:16 | <darthanubis> ok I keep finding all these documents talking about have two nics installed. But yesterday I had the standalone working just fine behind my gateway. The gateway just allowed for pxe boot.
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| 21:16 | Now today, the pxe boot just hangs at the end before the gui shows.
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| 21:17 | Trying to load: pxelinux.cfg
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| 21:18 | I don't want the thin clients on a subnet.
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| 21:19 | or an entirely seperate LAN
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| 21:19 | I don't know how to troubleshoot while stuck in pxe
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| 21:20 | <Hyperbyte> !ltsp-update-kernels
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| 21:20 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: ltsp-update-kernels: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/maverick/man8/ltsp-update-kernels.8.html
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| 21:20 | <Hyperbyte> Just a wild guess, but see what that does. It updates the stuff in /var/lib/tftpboot
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| 21:29 | <alkisg> darthanubis: you want a single nic setup? Do you have another dhcp server on your network, e.g. a router?
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| 21:33 | <darthanubis> alkisg,yes
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| 21:33 | <alkisg> darthanubis: to both questions? So, you uninstalled dhcpd from your ltsp server?
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| 21:34 | <darthanubis> dhcpd as far as I can tell was not installed with the standalone?
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| 21:34 | <alkisg> It was... but it shouldn't, if you have another dhcp server in your network
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| 21:34 | <darthanubis> and yes i want to use one nic with a gateway already pressent
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| 21:35 | <alkisg> OK let's take those questions one by one
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| 21:35 | Do you have another dhcp server? If so, what is it? A router? A windows server? etc
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| 21:36 | <darthanubis> it is a zentyal gateway/ebox/ubuntu-server setup.
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| 21:36 | <alkisg> Do you have access to configure that to send the correct boot filename, root-path, and next-server to the clients?
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| 21:37 | <darthanubis> I've been able to pxe boot with a dd-wrt/clearos/and zentyal gateways.
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| 21:37 | alkisg,yes
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| 21:37 | <alkisg> OK. Did you uninstall dhcpd from your ltsp server?
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| 21:37 | dpkg -l isc-dhcp-server
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| 21:39 | <darthanubis> just uninstalled it, I have to remember isc*
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| 21:40 | <alkisg> OK, now try again booting a client and see where it stops. Remember that you need to configure next-server == the ltsp server ip
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| 21:45 | <darthanubis> its looking for dhcp
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| 21:45 | it's just spinning
| |
| 21:45 | did not find the pxe boot
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| 21:46 | what is the file location?
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| 21:47 | Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955 | |
| 21:47 | <darthanubis> >/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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| 21:49 | ok, now it's trying to load
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| 21:50 | <darthanubis> this is where it takes a long time to start the client. Yesterday, I found it does not take longer than 45sec to load the pxe file
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| 22:00 | <alkisg> darthanubis: the default boot parameters include "quiet splash", so it's the kernel and initramfs that take a long time to load and execute, not the pxe file
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| 22:01 | <darthanubis> oh
| |
| 22:02 | is that a first time thing, or will it take that long every time? I've resorted to rebuilding the client
| |
| 22:04 | <alkisg> It's probably a dhcp server misconfiguration
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| 22:04 | Did you see the ubuntu logo screen?
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| 22:06 | <darthanubis> no
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| 22:06 | <alkisg> !quiet-splash
| |
| 22:06 | <ltsp> alkisg: quiet-splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run `sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default` and remove quiet splash .
| |
| 22:07 | <alkisg> This applies for kernel messages as well
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| 22:07 | <darthanubis> ok
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| 22:07 | <alkisg> darthanubis: the client *didn't* boot after the 45 seconds, did it?
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| 22:08 | <darthanubis> nope
| |
| 22:08 | <alkisg> Btw, a normal boot is about 30 seconds to the login screen
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| 22:08 | <darthanubis> I'm rebuilding the client
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| 22:08 | again
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| 22:08 | <alkisg> Why?
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| 22:08 | You clearly have a tftp problem
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| 22:08 | Not a chroot problem
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| 22:08 | <darthanubis> ok
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| 22:09 | <alkisg> Try this from your ltsp server: sudo /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig -n eth0
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| 22:09 | What's the output?
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| 22:11 | Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away | |
| 22:13 | <darthanubis> http://pastebin.com/T6x8d8aH
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| 22:14 | <alkisg> darthanubis: the info there shows that your dhcp server is misconfigured
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| 22:14 | You need rootserver=the ltsp server ip, and rootpath = /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 22:14 | So no matter how many clients you rebuild the client, if you don't fix your dhcp server, the client won't be able to boot... :)
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| 22:14 | *the chroot
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| 22:15 | <darthanubis> lol :) ;) Thanks
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| 22:15 | hmm
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| 22:16 | <alkisg> *how many times you rebuild the chroot... meh it shows that it's too late here, better head for the bed...
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| 22:18 | <darthanubis> alkisg,all of the changes need to occur on my gateway? Or is there a file on the ltsp server which I need to alter?
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| 22:18 | <alkisg> All on the gateway
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| 22:19 | <darthanubis> ok
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| 22:20 | If you are off to bed, I really appreciate your time helping me
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| 22:20 | If not, I need more hand holding:) I just want to see a splash screen
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| 22:22 | <alkisg> Just run that command above until you see the proper results :)
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| 22:22 | Off to bed, bb all
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| 23:02 | Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955 | |
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| 23:39 | <darthanubis> pxe-e11, error I cant believe how bad this is going for me
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| 23:43 | Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away | |