IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 26 February 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:39 | <jacobuserasmus> Think about this one CAPS-LOCK key is not working on my ltsp-clients.
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| 01:33 | <alkisg> jacobuserasmus: your keyboard layout is probably wrong... distro/version?
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| 09:31 | <jacobuserasmus> Was not on here for a while no CAPS-LOCK not working is not a keyboard layout problem. Can change the keyboard layout and still my caps is not working. It works in X, gdm, ldm but not on the console
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| 09:32 | <Gadi> jacobuserasmus: what distro and language?
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| 09:37 | <jacobuserasmus> OK ! Ubuntu 8.04.1 both the ltsp and the distro is upgraded to newest version. The setup is basically a ldm session on vt7 and a terminal (telnet) session on vt6 , vt1 standard console. None of the console sessions CAPS works. The light comes on but the console does not switch to capital letters.
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| 09:38 | <alkisg> jacobuserasmus: dpkg-reconfigure console-setup in the chroot
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| 09:38 | (rebuild image, remove any X/gdm settings etc)
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| 09:40 | <Gadi> jacobuserasmus: first, don't use vt1
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| 09:40 | use SCREEN_02 or higher
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| 09:40 | <jacobuserasmus> First thing I did , did not work. I have not yet completelly removed the X session.
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| 09:41 | <jacobuserasmus> I'm using vt6 and vt7 the vt1 always comes up with the standard ltsp stuff in anycase. Just thought I'd mention that it also has a CAPS lock issue. I've switched of X and switched it back on and the CAPS problem persists.
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| 09:42 | <Gadi> second, please mention what language you are using
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| 09:42 | <jacobuserasmus> (Both with X on and of). US (English)
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| 09:42 | Originally configured as US-104-Intl keyboard but because of problem reconfigured to standard US-101 Keyboard. No ded keys.
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| 09:43 | <Gadi> hmm... weird
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| 09:43 | works here
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| 09:44 | <jacobuserasmus> Yep also thought it was an interesting problem. Currently using a work around by using X to do the console stuff but the client is sorta unhappy. I'll do a clean kvm install and test. If it works I might need to do a reinstall of the server (Not very interested). The ltsp is brand new though.
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| 09:45 | Do you think it could be related to the NBD root must I tryy to use NFS or some other root Filesystem just for comparison ?
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| 09:45 | <Gadi> shouldnt have to do with nbd at all
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| 09:46 | <alkisg> jacobuserasmus: could you upload to pastebin the contents of /etc/default/console-setup, both from your server and the chroot?
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| 09:47 | <Gadi> jacobuserasmus: in lts.conf, try putting: CONSOLE_KEYMAP="us"
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| 09:47 | <ogra> smells rather like a kvm bug with console switching
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| 09:48 | <Gadi> the client is running in kvm or the server?
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| 09:54 | <jacobuserasmus> None. The whole setup is quite involved. Ubuntu Server 8.04.1 that runs the LTSP-server and clients PIII and up. I have a Mandrake instalation on a kvm partition (cloned from the old server). Thet the clients attach to (Yea I know but no OSS licensed software exists). So LTSP does not really touch the KVM at all. In actual fact because of the keyboard problems we have moved back to the old server. So I can load and unload kvm at will
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| 09:56 | This was an upgrade from a mandrake ltsp. And I have exactly the same setup on Ubuntu 6.06 no problem.
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| 09:56 | Correction I'm running Ubuntu 8.10 not 8.04.1.
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| 10:14 | <warren> Ryan52: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=486525 figure out if there is a command line option to set this to 1MB without writing to a conf file.
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| 10:54 | <jammcq> Good morning #ltsp
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| 10:55 | <Blinny> Good mornigg!
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| 11:31 | <_UsUrPeR_> is anyone familiar with the intel driver quirks?
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| 11:31 | specifically quirk_ignore_lvds?
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| 11:50 | <Gadi> stgraber: ping
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| 12:24 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: did you need anything more than that e-mail I sent you?
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| 12:28 | <CAN-o-SPAM> warren: gunna send you an e-mail in a bit
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| 12:28 | warren: r u voting for ltsp logo contest?
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| 12:31 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: your e-mail says "Get Ready For Voting" not "Vote Now"
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| 12:31 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: also you create confusion by asking for votes but also saying "and hope for a few more last minute entries!"
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| 12:33 | <CAN-o-SPAM> right ... Get Ready ... not until the end of the contest, i figured it was pretty obvious
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| 12:33 | <CAN-o-SPAM> e-mail everyone if you feel its beneficial, by all means
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| 12:55 | <Lns> CAN-o-SPAM: who gets to vote?
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| 12:56 | <warren> Lns: whoever agreed to vote for the party
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| 12:57 | <Lns> party?
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| 13:00 | <stgraber> Gadi: pong
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| 13:00 | <cliebow> party??
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| 13:00 | <CAN-o-SPAM> Lns: you cant vote you submitted a logo
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| 13:01 | and sure we can have a party
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| 13:01 | <Lns> woooo! partay!
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| 13:01 | <cliebow> your place or mine
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| 13:01 | ohh we already did my place
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| 13:01 | <Lns> CAN-o-SPAM: I can't even vote for a different logo than my own? =(
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| 13:01 | <CAN-o-SPAM> Lns: sorry.
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| 13:02 | <Lns> booo
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| 13:12 | <cliebow> rjune!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 13:14 | <ogra> CAN-o-SPAM, sbalneav doesnt vote o_O ??
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| 13:15 | <Gadi> stgraber: I added my revamped sound volume setting code to trunk
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| 13:16 | tested on several different chipsets
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| 13:16 | <stgraber> Gadi: yup, got the mail from Launchpad. Looks good, we'll try it here and see how well it works with our own buggy thin clients :)
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| 13:16 | <Gadi> cool
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| 13:16 | just what I was gonna ask
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| 13:16 | :)
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| 13:17 | <CAN-o-SPAM> ogra: sbalneav entered a logo
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| 13:17 | * ogra grins about logo #45 | |
| 13:18 | <CAN-o-SPAM> ogra: #2
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| 13:18 | <ogra> CAN-o-SPAM, ah, who participates isnt allowed to vote ? understood then
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| 13:23 | <cliebow> i goota g look
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| 13:23 | CAN-o-SPAM, url?
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| 13:28 | <ogra> ok, voted
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| 13:28 | <stgraber> vote, where ?
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| 13:29 | <CAN-o-SPAM> ogra: there may be more logos by end of day tomorrow
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| 13:30 | cliebow: http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/web/contestlogos.html
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| 13:32 | <vagrantc> CAN-o-SPAM: is the vote flexible enough to vote for part of a logo?
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| 13:34 | <ogra> vagrantc, like "i vote for the L" ?
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| 13:34 | :)
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| 13:35 | <cliebow> there is ome Great stuff there!
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| 13:36 | <ogra> CAN-o-SPAM, well, i'll look there tomorrow as well, but if there are not massively better ones my vote stands
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| 13:38 | <Lns> CAN-o-SPAM: you might want to thumbnail those logos.. I'm having issues viewing that page without mucho lag-o
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| 13:38 | <CAN-o-SPAM> ogra: noted
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| 13:38 | Lns: Local Apps only ;)
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| 13:39 | <Lns> CAN-o-SPAM: well, if you can't view a disklessworkstations.com page with a disklessworkstations.com thin client.... =p
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| 13:39 | <CAN-o-SPAM> ruh roh
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| 13:49 | <ogra> Lns, well, its definately a page to trigger OOM with the good old pixmap bug
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| 13:51 | <Lns> ogra: *nods*
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| 14:46 | <sbalneav> No, I won't vot
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| 14:46 | e
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| 14:46 | I submitted a logo, so I'm ineligible
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| 14:48 | <vagrantc> local ltspfsmounter stuff is wacky.
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| 14:49 | <ogra> well, it wasnt designed for local use initially
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| 14:50 | sbalneav, yeah, i finally grokked that
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| 14:53 | <vagrantc> ogra: yes, i know.
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| 14:57 | <jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 17:32 | <stillflame> so if i have an ltsp server in a computer lab, but i leave all the harddrives in the terminals with windows installed, they would need only switch one cable to revert to using the harddrives. is that the best scenario for having dual boot diskless/windows?
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| 17:32 | oh, i could do one of those boot menus, couldn't i?
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| 17:39 | <Lns> stillflame: that's exactly how i have 5 schools on LTSP
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| 17:39 | stillflame: just modify the BIOS to boot to the network FIRST
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| 17:39 | they don't need to unplug their hard drives (although it's probably a good idea if they're not going to use them)
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| 17:49 | <stillflame> Lns: yeah - it's in rural guatemala, so they won't be getting much tech support, so i'm trying to make sure they have an easy method for switching if ever the server breaks or whatnot
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| 17:50 | the power savings (and reduced wear) might be worth unplugging the HDs - i'll ask them what they think.
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| 17:51 | <Lns> yup, and most likely faster LTSP boot times (don't haveto probe for the hdd)
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| 17:51 | and less noise
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| 17:51 | but yeah, it's nice for the skeptics to be able to go back and forth at their leisure
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| 17:59 | <stgraber> Ryan52: hey, you're good at gtk right ? :)
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| 18:07 | <stillflame> Ryan52: you're good at everything, right?
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| 18:08 | (but never around to chat)
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| 18:11 | <stgraber> Ryan52: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ldm.png
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| 18:12 | Ryan52: Looks like some work could be done on the login box.
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| 18:13 | vertically centering the label and the entrybox and finding a way to make the login box better positioned
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| 18:29 | <Ryan52> stillflame: :)
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| 18:30 | stgraber: is that your theme?
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| 18:31 | <Ryan52> stgraber: ya, I know that it's wrong. last time I "fixed" that (probably wrong, but anyway) ogra got pissed. I never did figure out what the problem was, tho.
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| 18:32 | oh, wait, now that I think about it for 30 seconds I think I know what the problem was.
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| 18:32 | hmm.
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| 18:32 | at least one potential problem.
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| 18:32 | <ogra> its the whole design thats wrong
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| 18:33 | <Ryan52> ogra: all of gtkgreet? or just what I did?
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| 18:33 | <ogra> it was never designed in a way that more items could be added
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| 18:33 | <Ryan52> unrelated, I think.
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| 18:33 | <ogra> thats what triggered me to make it more flexible which i never wnet on with
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| 18:33 | the prob is that there are strict tables with strict numbers of items
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| 18:33 | <stgraber> Ryan52: that's my theme for intrepid, I'm working on the one for Jaunty (well, for my customers using Intrepid as I didn't have the time to upload it for Intrepid)
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| 18:34 | <ogra> i think the problem was introduced with the guest button which adds an additional column
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| 18:34 | <Ryan52> ah.
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| 18:34 | <stgraber> hmm, let me try with the guest login button on
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| 18:34 | <ogra> that messed up everything of my bad design
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| 18:34 | <Ryan52> :)
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| 18:35 | <ogra> which only worked through duct tape holding it together
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| 18:35 | <stgraber> ogra: btw, I'm working with Kenneth on getting a real background for Jaunty :)
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| 18:35 | <ogra> my new attempt did put everything in its own freely placeable window
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| 18:35 | <Ryan52> ogra: so, how do we fix it? I saw that you had that new one in progress, is the code somewhere? can I help?
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| 18:35 | <ogra> so no item can influence the other
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| 18:36 | * Ryan52 nods | |
| 18:36 | <Ryan52> everytime I touch anything in gtkgreet I feel like I'm making a bigger mess...
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| 18:36 | <Lns> since we're on the ldm subject, can I suggest if we modify it to be more flexible, keep in mind that some users (ahem) would love the flexibility to add/remove/modify "Options" items? :)
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| 18:36 | <ogra> Ryan52, i'm way to tired to put that up now, i'll try to collect the bits and pieces on the weekend and write up the conceptual idea
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| 18:37 | essentially the idea is to render all objects off screen
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| 18:37 | <stgraber> Lns: that part is actually extremely easy to implement but quite far on my list. Patches are welcome though, ldmgtkgreet code is quite easy.
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| 18:37 | <Ryan52> ogra, and then are you gonna finish it or have me?
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| 18:37 | <ogra> then have a subfuntion for each element in the main() function
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| 18:37 | so you can add variables to switch on/off elements and place them where you like
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| 18:38 | i would love to finish it, but i fear that will take another 6 months
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| 18:38 | so if anyone can finish it faster i wont complain
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| 18:38 | <stgraber> Although I love the ideas behind the new greeter, I'm not going to have it for Jaunty and would love the greeter to look a bit better than it currently does :)
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| 18:38 | <ogra> i worked out the essential bits like the offscreen renderer, so its only a matter of porting the old stuff to the new system and working out the placement
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| 18:39 | <Ryan52> ok. I'd love to help finish it. cause I've made a *really* big mess out of the current code. :P
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| 18:39 | <ogra> i didnt work that out properly yet since i wasnt sure what was clevever, computing the perscentage ot pixels from top left or rather from mid screen etc
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| 18:40 | *of pixels
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| 18:40 | <Ryan52> why not both? :)
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| 18:40 | <stgraber> hmm, the guest login is even more broken than the rest of the greeter :)
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| 18:40 | <ogra> well, thats not your fault, i didnt design it in an easily extendable way
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| 18:40 | well, both if you like ... that code isnt there yet :)
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| 18:40 | <Ryan52> hmm. how does that work, tho? becuase what if that makes them end up overlapping?
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| 18:41 | <ogra> i think i did top left in pixels ...
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| 18:41 | for the testing code
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| 18:41 | you know the size
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| 18:42 | the offscreen rendering stuff actually maps the frames of elements outside of the visible space so you can ask gdk for their sizes
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| 18:42 | <Ryan52> ok.
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| 18:42 | <ogra> since they were mapped once already they claim space
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| 18:42 | then i move them to ther actual position
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| 18:43 | <Ryan52> and be smart and magic enough to not make them overlap no matter what the demensions of the window are?
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| 18:43 | <ogra> not yet
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| 18:43 | you have their sizes
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| 18:43 | so you can make that work
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| 18:43 | i didnt yet
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| 18:43 | <Ryan52> ya.
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| 18:44 | ok.
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| 18:44 | <ogra> i'll have to look up the code really
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| 18:44 | i only remember it vaguely
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| 18:44 | but atm i'm trying to get out an alpha release
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| 18:44 | and its 2am here ....
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| 18:44 | <Ryan52> o noez.
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| 18:44 | <ogra> and i had wine ...
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| 18:44 | <Ryan52> good luck.
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| 18:45 | <ogra> well, only paparwork left
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| 18:45 | *paper
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| 18:45 | we have alphas every two weeks ... but this time i do a first release of a new arch so i need to actually do some stuff
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| 18:45 | usually its all automated and i only need to test
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| 18:47 | <stgraber> Ryan52: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ldm1.png
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| 18:47 | Ryan52: that's some kind of mix from my previous screenshot and one with the guest login button
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| 18:47 | <Ryan52> stgraber: there is no way to easily center that.
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| 18:48 | <stgraber> Ryan52: so basically everything is at the exact same place and the guest login button is added horizontally centered under the box
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| 18:48 | <Ryan52> ya
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| 18:48 | stgraber: if you use the gtk ways, then when the label next to the box changes to password it moves. so it's awkward.
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| 18:49 | and that's a bigger bug than it not being centered, I think.
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| 18:49 | <stgraber> right, and what about vertical centering of the label with the input box ?
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| 18:49 | <Ryan52> ohhhhh.
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| 18:49 | I misunderstood.
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| 18:49 | <ogra> you should really fix your monitor ... there is a gree cross :P
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| 18:49 | *green
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| 18:50 | <Ryan52> lol
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| 18:51 | * ogra really loved his first ldm | |
| 18:51 | <ogra> that used gnomecanvas
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| 18:51 | <Ryan52> oooo.
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| 18:51 | <ogra> everything was freely placeable
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| 18:51 | no vboxes or hboxes
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| 18:51 | no restrictions
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| 18:51 | but it took 30 secs to come up :P
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| 18:51 | <stgraber> :)
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| 18:51 | <Ryan52> heh
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| 18:52 | <ogra> which might not even have been gnomecanvas' fault, it was pygtk
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| 18:52 | the C version was redone from scratch with minimalism in mind to make it as fast as possible
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| 18:53 | thats why for example the lang and session windows are separate so they arent loaded if the main greeter is up
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| 18:54 | <Ryan52> did somebody highlight me in this channel this morning?
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| 18:55 | I remember that just before I /away-ed somebody said something to me, and I ignored it because I had to leave, and now I forgot :/
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| 18:55 | oh, warren, I see.
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| 18:55 | <ogra> warren popped in shortly stating your name
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| 18:56 | pointing to a pulse bug in fedora iirc
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| 18:58 | <Ryan52> stgraber: haven't looked at the code, but if you stick it in a GtkAlignment to vertically center it does it help?
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| 18:59 | <ogra> no
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| 18:59 | * ogra tried all methods he knows ... alignment was the first | |
| 19:00 | <Ryan52> well at least I know I'm not crazy :)
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| 19:00 | <ogra> the olny proper fix is that elements arent hidden but actually not there
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| 19:00 | currently they are simply not shown, but still occupy space
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| 19:01 | <Ryan52> which are we talking about?
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| 19:01 | <ogra> guest
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| 19:01 | * Ryan52 thinks that's doesn't affect it. | |
| 19:01 | <ogra> the guest button is coming up in hidden state
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| 19:01 | <Ryan52> if you open two tabs with ldm.png and ldm1.png
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| 19:01 | and go back and forth.
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| 19:01 | <ogra> you dont see it but it adds another column
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| 19:01 | <Ryan52> nevermind.
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| 19:02 | <ogra> its the whole design of the vbox/hbox table in the center thats wrong
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| 19:02 | <Ryan52> it doesn't occupy space, iirc It doesn't get added to the vbox if LDM_GUEST isn't true.
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| 19:02 | <ogra> it works if you rip out everythng thats not login box related
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| 19:02 | <Ryan52> o
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| 19:02 | <ogra> but thats no solution
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| 19:10 | <stgraber> ogra: how can the guest login button that's hidden under the login box affect the vertical alignment of the label and the input box ?
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| 19:10 | <vagrantc> i guess i mostly see it with the Guest Login button, so i don't really notice the problem
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| 19:10 | <Ryan52> stgraber: I still don't get it either.
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| 19:11 | stgraber: it's not just hidden, it's not even in the box (iirc).
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| 19:12 | <ogra> i might misremember but there is one item that adds an additional column
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| 19:12 | i thought i rememebred it to be the guest button
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| 19:14 | anyway, i need to crash
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| 19:14 | <Ryan52> ogra, good night.
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| 19:27 | <stgraber> http://www.stgraber.org/download/bruno-jaunty3.png looks quite good for Jaunty and meets most of the art team criterias though it's a bit too dark at the bottom (rendering is with 16bit)
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| 19:29 | * Ryan52 was wondering where the preferences button went, and then noticed it hiding there :P | |
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| 20:04 | <stgraber> I should have a call for backgrounds out sometime next week with well defined criterias for desktop integration and do work with ldm's restrictions
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| 22:57 | <erikcw> I'm trying to figure out how "thick" my thin clients are going to need to be. I just need to run firefox with flash (the flash app is a flex based business business app).
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| 22:58 | The flash app is the front end for the CRM. The thin clients will be in a call center if that helps
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| 23:00 | <johnny> hmm.. i'd go with 512mb ram
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| 23:01 | that's the most important thing
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| 23:14 | <erikcw> johnny: 512mb on the client?
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| 23:14 | I thought the processing was done on the server?
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| 23:16 | <johnny> oh sorry
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| 23:16 | erikcw, sorry.. the word thick popped in my head
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| 23:16 | erikcw, flash is quite terrible imo
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| 23:17 | over the network
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| 23:17 | so.. to get the best performance for such a thing, you would want to run firefox locally
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| 23:17 | and flash
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| 23:18 | <erikcw> and a 512mb box will do the trick?
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| 23:18 | (the flash is just a buisiness app, no video, audio etc. Just buttons and form fields)
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| 23:26 | <johnny> erikcw, it might be fine then
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| 23:26 | 128mb is probably the base
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| 23:27 | <alkisg> erikcw: You could try running your business app from a normal (=non-ltsp) client using ssh -X server (or ssh -Y server) to see if the performance is acceptable. If not, you'll need to run it locally.
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| 23:27 | ...and if it needs to run locally, you'll need more RAM like johnny said.
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| 23:31 | <erikcw> alkisg: good tip! So running LTSP in vmware and using my macbook as the client would be an accurate test?
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