IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 23 February 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:40 | <alkisg> vagrantc: hi, could you give me a quick explanation of how ltsp_config.d works? E.g. could I make some Ubuntu-custom/* ltsp-build-client plugins, which would generate some ltsp_config.d/* scripts, and those script in turn could e.g. set X_COLOR_DEPTH=16 for thin clients and leave it unset for fat clients?
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| 01:43 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yup.
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| 01:43 | <alkisg> Thanks! :)
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| 01:43 | <vagrantc> alkisg: they're just files sourced from ltsp_config
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| 01:44 | in fact, i was thinking that some of the hard-coded getltscfg-cluster stuff could be easily integrated into that.
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| 01:44 | <alkisg> So we could pretty much split ltsp_config into several files could go in there? Got it...
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| 01:44 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you could also have your wget stuff that includes shell-sourceable values drop stuff in there from the initramfs.
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| 01:44 | <alkisg> *syntax error :)
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| 01:45 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i.e. wget http://server/mac=foo&ram=bar/lts.conf
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| 01:45 | <alkisg> Ooooh nice idea :)
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| 01:46 | * alkisg would also like a wget hook upon ldm login :) | |
| 01:46 | <vagrantc> saves from having to re-invent the whole idea.
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| 01:46 | alkisg: ah, yes. we could split ltsp_config into several files ...
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| 01:46 | it adds a slight bit of overhead to source several files instead of one ... not sure how much that matters.
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| 01:47 | <alkisg> I don't think that would be more than a few msec...
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| 01:47 | <vagrantc> i did think of that when i wrote it, but decided to leave it as is for now, and just make it an optional directory.
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| 01:49 | it does run before all the defaults... so all the [ -z "$FOO" ] checks should be fast if you set those values.
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| 01:50 | <alkisg> Right, so I can't e.g. check for $LTSP_FATCLIENT, I'd need to check for -f /etc/ltsp_fat_chroot instead
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| 01:51 | <vagrantc> i think the original reason i wanted it was to be able to set LTSP_FATCLIENT based on system resources.
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| 01:52 | <alkisg> Hmmm or at least disable it for systems with < 256 ram... not a bad idea
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| 01:52 | <vagrantc> though the screen locker issue is definitely a blocker for deploying it in many cases at freegeek.
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| 01:53 | <vagrantc> i really need a per-session ability to set or disable LTSP_FATCLIENT ...
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| 01:53 | as i think guest logins should be able to use LTSP_FATCLIENT (if system resources are sufficient) but logins with actual user accounts shouldn't.
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| 01:54 | at least, that's what i want.
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| 01:54 | as the guest logins shouldn't have screen lockers anyways...
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| 01:54 | but actual user accounts should
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| 01:54 | and guest logins shouldn't need to do anything requiring authentication
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| 01:58 | <alkisg> Something like ltsp_config upon login wuold be nice
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| 01:58 | <alkisg> But actual users might also need to run multimedia apps, googleearth etc, so it would have to be more configurable
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| 01:59 | <gnunux> hi
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| 01:59 | <vagrantc> alkisg: the other idea i had was to run the handful of applications as remoteapps.
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| 01:59 | alkisg: all the screen lockers and whatnot...
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| 02:00 | * vagrantc heads to sleep | |
| 02:01 | <alkisg> 'night vagrantc
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| 02:54 | <Comete> hello
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| 02:59 | i have stability problem with pulseaudio on my thinclients and i would like to use esd or nasd instead, but i would like to have sound with flash too, is it possible ?
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| 03:40 | <Comete> is there any documentation somewhere explaining how to replace pulseaudio with esd ?
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| 03:46 | <alkisg> stgraber: SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS causes problems for fat clients. I'd like the following weird, but conventient, behavior by default:
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| 03:47 | When SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS is not set, and only for fat clients, mount /home/username without following symlinks, but mount any other extra mounts as usually, i.e. with following symlinks
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| 03:48 | Of course if the user sets SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS to either true or false, the previous behavior won't happen. Would you agree to that?
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| 03:48 | highvoltage, also, any opinions on this? ^^^
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| 03:51 | <Comete> stgraber: thanks for your email, i will stay with gcompris 8 for the moment
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| 04:04 | <Comete> no way to replace pulseaudio by esd ? i've tried SOUND_DAEMON=esd but i still get no sound...
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| 05:40 | <highvoltage> alkisg: I guess that would make sense
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| 05:40 | <alkisg> highvoltage: thanks, I'll commit it and if anyone objects, we can just revert it :)
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| 05:41 | <highvoltage> alkisg: heh, it's not like I have any say anyway :)
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| 05:42 | <alkisg> highvoltage: sure you do... and I'd vote for you whenever you feel like joining the team "officially" ;)
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| 06:00 | <highvoltage> alkisg: :)
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| 07:07 | <stgraber> alkisg: setting SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS to false by default should be ok. I know it's also breaking localapps like google chrome.
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| 07:07 | <alkisg> stgraber: for all? Or just for fat clients?
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| 07:08 | <stgraber> for all
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| 07:08 | <alkisg> stgraber: I don't think it breaks thin clients
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| 07:08 | <stgraber> it breaks some localapps
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| 07:08 | <alkisg> Ah sorry yes it does break localapps
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| 07:08 | stgraber: but I would like for extra-mounts-follow-symlinks to be enabled by default
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| 07:09 | <alkisg> stgraber: so can we do this: when SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS is unset => don't follow symlinks for home, but do follow symlinks for extramounts
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| 07:09 | <stgraber> alkisg: yeah, that should be safe
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| 07:09 | <alkisg> OK, thanks
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| 08:46 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:47 | <mgariepy> morning
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| 09:01 | <thunsucker> sbalneav: morning
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| 09:29 | <Ralth> Should all usernames on the server show up in the list displayed at the end of the output from ltsp-update-image? If so, what would cause them to not appear? I'm getting the login screen on a client, but can't log in, and I'm thinking this might be the issue, though i don't know for sure.
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| 09:30 | <johnny> no.. it doesn't
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| 09:30 | not that i've ever see nanyways
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| 09:30 | did you change the ip?
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| 09:30 | of the server*
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| 09:32 | <Ralth> I did. But I did update the ssh keys.
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| 09:32 | Do I need to do anything else?
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| 09:34 | <johnny> and then you rebuilt the image
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| 09:34 | that's all you should need to do
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| 09:39 | <Ralth> Hmmm. Done that, and I still can't log in.
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| 09:39 | <thunsucker> Ralth: does it say it can't connect the server or any other error?
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| 09:40 | <Ralth> No, it says "verifying username and password" and then takes me back to the login page.
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| 09:41 | Sorry, the exact message is "verifying password. please wait."
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| 09:41 | <Gadi> Ralth: are the NICs in your server on different subnets?
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| 09:42 | <Ralth> I only have one NIC in the server ... I'm trying to set this up with virtual machines
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| 09:42 | <Gadi> gotcha
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| 09:42 | you should set a shell on the thin client so you can investigate further
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| 09:43 | <Ralth> (Doing some testing/learning before I attempt to implement this for a computer lab.)
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| 09:43 | <Gadi> in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf , add:
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| 09:43 | [default]
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| 09:43 | SCREEN_07=ldm
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| 09:43 | SCREEN_08=shell
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| 09:44 | then, when the client boots, you can ctrl-alt-f8 to a shell
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| 09:44 | and check to make sure you can ssh in correctly to the server
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| 09:44 | also, make sure you have a desktop environment installed on the server (such as gnome)
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| 09:45 | <Ralth> lts.conf does not exist in that folder, should I create it?
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| 09:45 | <Gadi> yes
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| 09:46 | (a little background: when you log in with LDM, you are basically executing: ssh -X user@server /etc/X11/Xsession
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| 09:47 | so, you need to make sure that: a. the user can ssh to the server, b. that there is a desktop installed on the server
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| 09:47 | c. that the server is a known host to the client (thats what ltsp-update-sshkeys does
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| 09:47 | <Ralth> ok. I'm running Gnome on the server right now, so that's fine
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| 09:47 | <Gadi> if all the above is in order
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| 09:48 | you should investigate the user's ~/.xsession-errors file
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| 09:48 | sometimes compiz runs when it shouldnt and it crashes the client
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| 09:48 | <Ralth> ... right now, trying to figure out how to do ctrl-alt-f8 on the vm. :-)
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| 09:48 | <Gadi> what are you using?
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| 09:49 | <Ralth> vmplayer
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| 09:49 | <Gadi> hmm... try just alt-f8 or alt-shift-f8
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| 09:49 | or some such
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| 09:54 | <comfrey> hey all
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| 09:54 | i am getting the wrong kernel (64 bit) on my 32 bit client
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| 09:55 | i am using ubuntu atm, and wondering which image needs attention
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| 09:57 | <Ralth> Gadi: a,b, and c in the list you gave are good. Here's the .xsession-errors for the user: http://pastebin.com/QTTvSrYF
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| 10:00 | <comfrey> i think it is the nbi...
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| 10:01 | <comfrey> updating the nbi is not update-image no
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| 10:01 | how to regen the nbi?
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| 10:05 | <johnny> uhmm.. do you have any 64bit clients?
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| 10:05 | <comfrey> no, just 32.
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| 10:06 | <johnny> then that's not the problem
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| 10:06 | delete your chroot
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| 10:06 | and start over
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| 10:06 | ltsp-build-client --arch=i386
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| 10:06 | it builds 64bit chroots on a 64bit server by default
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| 10:07 | <comfrey> ok, i'll take a swing. the chroot being /opt/ltsp/i386 ?
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| 10:07 | <johnny> you shouldn't have an i386 one..
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| 10:07 | <Gadi> Ralth: are you logging in at the server and the thin client with the same username?
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| 10:07 | <johnny> you need to make one
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| 10:07 | <Ralth> yes
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| 10:07 | <johnny> that won't work
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| 10:07 | need a new username
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| 10:07 | <Gadi> Ralth: at the same time?
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| 10:07 | <comfrey> there is one , but it is using the 64 bit for some reason
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| 10:07 | <johnny> yes.. won't work at the same time.. :)
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| 10:08 | delete the 64bit one
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| 10:08 | <Ralth> Ah. Ok.
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| 10:08 | <johnny> oh wait.. isn't there a purge command Gadi ?
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| 10:08 | <comfrey> i did and created a symlink to the 32 bit one
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| 10:08 | <johnny> for ltsp-build-client
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| 10:08 | comfrey, the problem is in your tftpboot
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| 10:08 | remove the symlink
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| 10:08 | the problem now is in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp
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| 10:09 | <comfrey> ok, lets see about that
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| 10:09 | <Gadi> comfrey: what version of ltsp do you have there?
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| 10:09 | <comfrey> ok still need to regen the image then
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| 10:09 | ubuntu...
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| 10:09 | uh 9.04
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| 10:09 | <Gadi> 9.10?
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| 10:09 | ah, ok
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| 10:10 | then, yeah, you might want to delete your amd64 chroot and img file in /opt/ltsp/images and adjust your inetd.conf to use port 2000 for i386.img
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| 10:10 | and, of course build the i386.img
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| 10:11 | don't forget to restart openbsd-inetd service after updating inetd.conf
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| 10:11 | <comfrey> i updated the image and that is when all this started
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| 10:11 | all was working fine before the upgrade
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| 10:12 | <Gadi> ok lets take a step back then
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| 10:12 | <comfrey> i see...
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| 10:12 | <Gadi> so, you are getting a 64-bit kernel on boot?
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| 10:12 | <anivair> problem: my ltsp server keeps locking up. the users will lock up across the board for a few minutes and then it frees up again. the server looks fine when it happens and I can run things normally (top shows no processor hog). but it is stopping me from logging into the server remotely (so maybe a networking issue?)
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| 10:12 | <comfrey> looks like 2000 is amd64 in inetd.conf
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| 10:13 | <Gadi> comfrey: are you getting a 64 bit kernel or the 64 bit chroot?
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| 10:13 | <comfrey> kernel
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| 10:13 | <Gadi> ok, then dont worry about inetd.conf
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| 10:13 | <Ralth> Gadi: rebooted the server to be sure I was not logged in at all, and I'm still having the same problem.
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| 10:13 | <Gadi> comfrey: what filename is in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf?
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| 10:14 | <comfrey> /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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| 10:14 | and else nbi
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| 10:14 | <Gadi> Ralth: try adding: LDM_DIRECTX=True to your lts.conf file (the one you created)
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| 10:15 | comfrey: then, you cannot really be getting a 64 bit kernel
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| 10:15 | <anivair> restarting ssh may or may not have had an effect. checking again
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| 10:15 | <Gadi> have a look at /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 10:16 | <comfrey> DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash nbdport=2001
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| 10:16 | looks right...
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| 10:16 | <Gadi> yup
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| 10:17 | comfrey: try restarting dhcp3-server and openbsd-inetd
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| 10:17 | <Ralth> Gadi: do I need to rebuild after that?
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| 10:17 | <Gadi> and, for good measure, run ltsp-update-kernels
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| 10:17 | Ralth: nope
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| 10:17 | Ralth: just reboot
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| 10:18 | <Ralth> client, server, or both?
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| 10:18 | <comfrey> grr...
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| 10:18 | <Gadi> Ralth: your .xsession-errors file complained about not being able to properly connect to localhost:11 display or to the xrdb (the X resource db)
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| 10:18 | Ralth: client
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| 10:19 | <comfrey> so still getting the error
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| 10:19 | <Ralth> Still not working.
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| 10:22 | Gadi: So, I tried creating a different user ... and it works fine
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| 10:22 | <anivair> update: I had to reboot the server. I really hope that doesn't happen again.
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| 10:22 | rebooting takes us down for wuite a bit
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| 10:24 | <Ralth> Gadi: There's not a big reason to get the other account working, since I'm just testing at this point. Thanks for the help!
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| 10:27 | <anivair> update: rebooting forced me to rebuild the image and reload the kernel
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| 10:27 | not okay
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| 10:28 | <ogra> thats why you define maintenance windows as a good admin and dont do such stuff during work hours :)
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| 10:36 | <anivair> anyone have any thoughts as to why the server may have locked up like that?
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| 10:37 | <ogra> sounds like a NIC problem
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| 10:37 | have you checked dmesg ?
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| 10:37 | <anivair> of course not ... but I will now
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| 10:39 | <ogra> well, if you rebooted thats wiped
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| 10:39 | so you can only wait until it happens the next time
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| 10:39 | probably kern.log has something though
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| 10:40 | in any case it sounds like a network prob, either your NIC has issues or probably your swithc is overloaded or something like that
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| 10:40 | was there any particular reason you rebuiolt your image after reboot ?
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| 10:45 | <anivair> because when I rebooted the first time ltsp was sticking on the load
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| 10:45 | it was hanging on loading vmlinuz
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| 10:46 | <ogra> and *that* made you rebuild everything ?
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| 10:46 | <anivair> that's happened a few times lately and I always have to rebuild
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| 10:46 | it is what solved it
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| 10:46 | <ogra> no, you dont
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| 10:46 | you should find out what blocks your network :)
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| 10:47 | <anivair> well, i'd love to, but atm having people on is imperative
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| 10:47 | I'd love for these people to give me some time to actuially fix things
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| 10:47 | <ogra> right, do it in your regular maintenance window wrie a script or something that produces some network load
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| 10:47 | *write
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| 10:48 | <anivair> I could give that a shot. I'm a little afraid to fiddle with it too much right now
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| 10:48 | but I'll take a loko at it in a bit
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| 10:49 | I do have an ssh window running to the machine, but I'm a little hesitant to play with the network at all right now
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| 10:50 | <ogra> yeah, dont do it during business hours
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| 10:50 | but inspect all logs etc
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| 10:51 | and check your network hardware too
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| 10:51 | <anivair> wait ... let me see if my understanding of ltsp is right here
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| 10:51 | my thin clients are patched into a switch, but they are all getting their network connection from the ltsp server (ie, if they are going out to ther machines or ht net)
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| 10:52 | so if their desktops locked up, but the ltsp server didn't lock up, then it should be the nic and not hte switch, yes? Since nobody else plugged into that switch had any issues?
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| 10:52 | <ogra> your thin clients are somewhat like ethernet based extensions of kbd/mouse/display of the server
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| 10:53 | so your users fully work on the server, all apps usually run there
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| 10:53 | if the *display* locks up then it is very likely you have a network saturation
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| 10:54 | note that mouse, kbd and display drivers run on the client ... but the content of your display comes from the server
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| 10:54 | <anivair> I'm honestly not sure if it was the display or their whole connection. can't really tell the difference at a glance
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| 10:54 | <ogra> i.e. your mouse and kbd can be usable but the content you see is completely unresponsive
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| 10:54 | <anivair> so if that's the case, then it's the server nic?
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| 10:55 | <ogra> or the connetion to it
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| 10:55 | i.e. switch cables etc
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| 10:57 | <ogra> if your mouse locks up too on the client, its rather a ram issue of the client machine ...
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| 10:58 | how much ram do your clients have, do you know that ?
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| 10:58 | (though thats unlikely, since you said you cant even ssh)
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| 10:59 | <anivair> yeah, it blocked my ssh login to the system
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| 10:59 | which makes me think it's definately network traffic
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| 11:00 | I'm running bmon right now
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| 11:00 | so if it goes down again, I'll at least be able to se if there as a spike in trraffic
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| 11:25 | hrm ... do I need to use update-rc.d to set dhcp services to run at boot? right now I have to start them manually
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| 11:25 | <ogra> wow, your server seems really messed up
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| 11:26 | <anivair> well, I turned it off when i installed it, I just don't recall how
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| 11:26 | so i'm not sure how to undo it
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| 11:26 | <ogra> no user should ever use update-rc.d its a maintainer script tool that should only be used by package scripts
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| 11:26 | <anivair> I can od it via the gui, but I'd rather use the command line if I can help it
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| 11:26 | true, but there is no dhcp3.conf script in /etc/init
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| 11:27 | <ogra> hwat are you running there ?
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| 11:27 | <anivair> ubuntu karmic
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| 11:27 | (or did you mean in /etc/init)?
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| 11:27 | <ogra> then there shouldnt be a dchpd script in /etc/init :)
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| 11:28 | its in the old /etc/rc2.d dir for karmic
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| 11:28 | <anivair> ahh
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| 11:28 | I see it there
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| 11:28 | it's a symlink
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| 11:28 | <ogra> with S and a number ?
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| 11:29 | <anivair> yes
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| 11:29 | <ogra> good
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| 11:29 | then it starts automatically
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| 11:29 | <anivair> it isn't doing that
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| 11:29 | <ogra> (unless the link is broken, which shouldnt be)
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| 11:29 | <anivair> nope, link is fine
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| 11:30 | however, dhcp is not starting when i boot
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| 11:30 | <ogra> well, it does for everyone else :)
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| 11:30 | what did you do to make it not start
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| 11:30 | <anivair> heh ... I wish I remembered.
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| 11:31 | it's been a while
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| 11:31 | <ogra> check /etc/default/
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| 11:31 | there should be a file for dhcpd
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| 11:32 | <anivair> there is a file, though it looks like all that's not commented out is "INTERFACES="""
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| 11:33 | <ogra> ok, thats fine
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| 11:34 | check your logs ... syslog and messages, one of them should show you dhcpd when it attempts to start
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| 11:34 | and it should also log errors
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| 11:37 | carbm1_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:38 | <anivair> looks like I've got a profile load and a profile replace in dmesg for dhcp3
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| 11:38 | does that not mean it should be running?
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| 11:39 | <carbm1_> I know I've asked a lot of questions lately and greatly appreciate the help in getting my first LTSP box up and running. But, I gotta ask another one and I'm hoping somebody can at least point me the right direction. I've got LTSP with LDAP authentication working. Our users home directories are on a Novell SLES10.2 box with Open Enterprise Server (eDirectory). Is there a way to mount the users home directories our Novell servers? Anybody doing som
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| 11:39 | ething similar? I know Open Enterprise Server supports Samba.
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| 11:49 | <ogra> anivair, no, thats just apparmor
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| 11:50 | <comfrey> so i moved over to the backport out of debian on lenny...
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| 11:50 | things are better. proper kernel and all
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| 11:50 | but i am unable to authenticate for valid users
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| 11:50 | it is not letting me login
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| 11:51 | <ogra> comfrey, check auth.log if you see login attempts
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| 11:51 | if they succeed, check ~/.xsession-errors of the user you try with
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| 11:52 | <comfrey> yeah, it is an ssh port thing
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| 11:53 | <anivair> ahh
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| 11:53 | <comfrey> what is the ssh port specification for lts.conf?
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| 11:53 | <ogra> do you not use 22 ?
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| 11:53 | <comfrey> man 5 lts.conf is missing in the package
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| 11:53 | i use some other port
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| 11:53 | * ogra thinks its SSH_OVERRIDE_PORT or something like that | |
| 11:53 | <comfrey> yeah, that sounds right
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| 11:57 | ok, that is better
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| 11:57 | thanks ogra
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| 11:57 | <ogra> :)
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| 12:45 | <comfrey> ok, so all is looking good, xcept... this eeebox with dvi is failing to startx.
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| 12:45 | i have set in lts.conf X_DEVICE_OPTION_02 = "ForcePanel true"
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| 12:47 | <Gadi> change to: X_DEVICE_OPTION_02 = "\"ForcePanel\" \"true\""
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| 12:55 | <comfrey> no go.
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| 12:57 | <alkisg> Would it be possible before the TC calls nbd-client, to send (write with nc) the desired image to the nbdrootd, so that nbdrootd gets is (read with nc) and calls nbd-server with the appropriate image as a parameter?
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| 12:57 | This way, we could just use one NBD_PORT for all images...
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| 13:00 | <Gadi> comfrey: why are you telling an eeebox to force its panel on?
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| 13:01 | that doesnt seem to make sense if your goal is to have dvi output
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| 13:01 | <comfrey> i see, i misunderstood some documentation then,
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| 13:02 | is there some recomended way to force dvi on, or... some driver to specify perhaps?
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| 13:02 | i tried vesa
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| 13:02 | <Gadi> can you get a shell on the client?
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| 13:03 | abeehc has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:03 | <comfrey> yes, i can set that up i assume, hang on
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| 13:10 | so i have a login, but there are no users set up in the chroot
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| 13:10 | i think i am missing something
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| 13:10 | <Gadi> did you set a screen to shell?
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| 13:10 | do this in lts.conf:
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| 13:10 | SCREEN_07=ldm
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| 13:10 | SCREEN_08=shell
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| 13:10 | <comfrey> oh, i see getty is in the way
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| 13:10 | <Gadi> then, when you boot the client, press ctrl-alt-f8
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| 13:10 | <comfrey> moving it to 8
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| 13:11 | thanks
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| 13:11 | abeehc has quit IRC | |
| 13:11 | <Gadi> once at a shell, scp /var/log/X*log user@server:
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| 13:12 | so you can paste the xorg log file
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| 13:22 | <comfrey> http://pastebin.com/j7hDgNsM
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| 13:26 | <Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: ping
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| 13:26 | <_UsUrPeR_> Gadi: woop
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| 13:26 | what's up?
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| 13:26 | <Gadi> hey, I think comfrey here needs that LVDS output disable thing you have
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| 13:26 | for the intel driver
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| 13:26 | can you paste it?
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| 13:27 | <_UsUrPeR_> Gadi: sure. Let me read above for a second, comfrey
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| 13:27 | <Gadi> he's trying to get an EEEbox to work
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| 13:27 | <_UsUrPeR_> EEEbox = intel atom chipset?
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| 13:27 | <Gadi> log file appears to enable all the outputs
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| 13:27 | yup
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| 13:27 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok.
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| 13:27 | comfrey: what version of ubuntu are you running?
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| 13:28 | <comfrey> debian, lenny backports
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| 13:28 | * Gadi thinks he's on 9.04 | |
| 13:28 | <Gadi> oh, I take that back
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| 13:28 | hehe
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| 13:28 | <comfrey> i am leaving the big U behind
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| 13:28 | <Gadi> fair enough - same driver tho with same quirks
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| 13:28 | :)
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| 13:28 | <comfrey> vagrantc showed me the light
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| 13:28 | ;)
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| 13:28 | <Gadi> and same LTSP
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| 13:29 | so, we're all good
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| 13:29 | <ogra> ... different kernel and drm drivers
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| 13:29 | <Gadi> quiet, you
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| 13:29 | :P
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| 13:29 | * ogra hides | |
| 13:32 | vvinet has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:33 | <_UsUrPeR_> comfrey / gadi: here's the file http://pastebin.com/22ZbkiNG
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| 13:34 | comfrey: that belongs in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/screen-session.d/XS20-server-intel-desktop-hack
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| 13:35 | comfrey: wait, are you saying that dvi output is not working at all?
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| 13:35 | <comfrey> it works, but no x
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| 13:36 | <_UsUrPeR_> comfrey: can you tell if intel's video drivers are being loaded properly in /var/log/Xorg.7.log?
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| 13:37 | <Gadi> they are
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| 13:38 | <_UsUrPeR_> hmm. Ok. How many video outputs are on that client?
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| 13:38 | just single DVI? or DVI + VGA?
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| 13:38 | <comfrey> just one dvi
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| 13:39 | the scipt appears to have not worked
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| 13:39 | <_UsUrPeR_> :/
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| 13:39 | you did update the ltsp image, correct?
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| 13:39 | <comfrey> nfs
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| 13:39 | <_UsUrPeR_> ahh
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| 13:39 | * ogra thinks we should all just switch back to matrix printers as output devices ... saves so many headdaches | |
| 13:40 | <_UsUrPeR_> :)
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| 13:40 | * _UsUrPeR_ can hear the forests crying now | |
| 13:40 | <ogra> e-ink !
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| 13:41 | <Gadi> comfrey: go back to the shell and check /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf
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| 13:41 | that script has lspci and hal checks that may not work on lenny
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| 13:42 | <_UsUrPeR_> Yeah, not quite sure this will work properly without some finagling.
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| 13:43 | Gadi: I believe that this is the correct place to start though. The intel LVDS bug is omnipresent in every Atom chipset I've tested.
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| 13:43 | * Gadi nods | |
| 13:45 | <comfrey> ok, i'll start poking
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| 13:47 | <Gadi> comfrey: does this return anything at the thin client shell: lspci -n |grep 8086:27ae
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| 13:55 | <Lns> ogra: When thermal paper comes down in cost, this might be a better "e-ink" ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_printer
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| 13:57 | * Gadi keeps thinking of saturday night live and german humor whenever ogra makes a funny ;) | |
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| 14:02 | <cliebow> all i can think of is nat. Lampoons vacation..
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| 14:02 | in Germany..
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| 14:02 | "Who the hell were they??
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| 14:09 | <prpplague> any recommendations on extremely cheap thin clients with minimal specs?
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| 14:12 | <Appiah> what are the minimal specs?
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| 14:13 | <sbalneav> prpplague: what means "extremely cheap"? :)
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| 14:13 | Sub $500? sub $400? Sub $100?
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| 14:14 | <prpplague> sub $300, 64MB ram, 64MB flash
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| 14:15 | <comfrey> prpplague: arm or i386?
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| 14:15 | <prpplague> comfrey: either is fine
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| 14:15 | <Gadi> cherry or blueberry?
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| 14:15 | <prpplague> snausberry
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| 14:15 | <comfrey> the little hp boxes look interesting.
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| 14:15 | * comfrey looks for link | |
| 14:16 | <Gadi> why are you looking for flash?
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| 14:16 | * Gadi waves to vagrantc | |
| 14:16 | * vagrantc waves | |
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| 14:17 | <prpplague> Gadi: not going to use true ltsp style thin clients
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| 14:17 | <comfrey> http://www.retrevo.com/s/HP-t5145-Desktops-review-manual/id/23192ag120/t/1-2/
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| 14:17 | * prpplague looks | |
| 14:17 | <prpplague> comfrey: yea i was looking at some of the devon it stuff, pretty darn good pricing there
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| 14:18 | <Gadi> dont forget ebay
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| 14:18 | <comfrey> prpplague: yeah, thats what i am running here
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| 14:18 | devonit boxes
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| 14:18 | <prpplague> Gadi: yea well i can't exactly purchase 2500 from ebay
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| 14:18 | <comfrey> just via mini-itx boxes.
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| 14:18 | <Gadi> prpplague: youd be surprised
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| 14:18 | <comfrey> vagrantc: what was the thin client you mentioned
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| 14:18 | the india thing
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| 14:19 | <vagrantc> comfrey: based on the sheevaplug
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| 14:19 | <comfrey> right
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| 14:20 | <vagrantc> the sheevaplug is headless, although with usb video you *might* make a nice little thin client out of it. but supposedly there are some newer designs that also have VGA (or some other video output)
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| 14:20 | <prpplague> vagrantc: yea i'm familar with the sheeva, hehe
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| 14:21 | <vagrantc> it's what i used to test the ltsp-build-client cross-architecture support
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| 14:21 | well, that an qemu
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| 14:22 | <prpplague> vagrantc: oh? ltsp has cross arch builds these days?
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| 14:22 | <vagrantc> prpplague: yes, using qemu-user-static packages.
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| 14:22 | <comfrey> so it looks kike i messed up something good....
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| 14:22 | <prpplague> interesting
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| 14:23 | <comfrey> now it is not making it through init and i an getting can't open /tmp/net-eth0.conf
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| 14:23 | <vagrantc> prpplague: only works for armel, in my experience.
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| 14:23 | <comfrey> also seeing "sleep" invalid number '0.1'
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| 14:24 | * vagrantc disappears to a meeting | |
| 14:24 | <prpplague> vagrantc: well it's nice to see someone actually moved arm support into mainstream ltsp
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| 14:24 | * prpplague 's first ARM ltsp install was back in 2001 | |
| 14:26 | * vagrantc is hoping to get access to some arm and mips hardware to test ltsp | |
| 14:29 | <Lns> I've had my eye on these, can't beat $202 for a price... Might order one today in fact
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| 14:29 | http://www.mini-box.com/Mini-Box-M200
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| 14:29 | <prpplague> vagrantc: any particular ones?
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| 14:30 | <vagrantc> prpplague: something reasobly well supported by debian's kernel with video(or built-in lcd)/mouse/keyboard
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| 14:30 | <alkisg> comfrey: where's that sleep problem? lenny initramfs?
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| 14:31 | <prpplague_afk> vagrantc: i'll have a look around the office
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| 14:33 | <comfrey> alkisg: yup looks like it
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| 14:33 | it popped up out of the blue. i must have touched something...
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| 14:34 | it cant find the /tmp/net-eth0.conf
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| 14:34 | init line 174:
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| 14:34 | <alkisg> That might be a "module not found" problem
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| 14:35 | <comfrey> i see, so i need to update initrd
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| 14:35 | and specify the modules
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| 14:36 | <prpplague> vagrantc: not tried the beagleboard with ltsp?
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| 14:39 | <Lns> Atom 2x1.6GHz + 1GB RAM should be great for localapps, right?
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| 14:45 | Also, is there a hook for env. variables to set themselves when you chroot to the client filesystem? Probably not...is there any reason not to provide some sort of script (ltsp-update-chroot ?) that automatically does stuff for you, such as LTSP_HANDLEDAEMONS = False and mounting /proc, etc.. while updating ? I just updated my Lucid chroot and it tried restarting cron..and failed on some other things cuz I forgot to do all of the other steps befo
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| 14:45 | rehand.
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| 14:45 | <_UsUrPeR_> Lns: that sounds like a fine machine :)
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| 14:45 | shoot, 1x1.6GHz is quite adequate for localapps
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| 14:47 | <Lns> _UsUrPeR_: Right on =) I'll probably be testing one of those guys out real soon with LTSP to see how it handles the load..need to see what vid. chipset it's got on it
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| 14:47 | <_UsUrPeR_> Lns: can you name the unit?
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| 14:47 | <Lns> ? It's the link I posted above
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| 14:47 | * _UsUrPeR_ assumes it's an atom processor | |
| 14:49 | <Lns> I just ran into another update issue on lucid.. while updating packages, dbus fails with "The system user 'messagebus' already exists. Exiting. -- Failed to open connection to "system" message bus: Failed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: No such file or directory" .. then consolekit fails, and it's a domino effect after that. Any clues? Did I bork it?
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| 14:49 | (this is the chroot update btw)
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| 15:15 | <vmlintu> Lns: Atom 330 2x1.6GHz + 2GB RAM has been working nicely for fat clients also
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| 15:17 | <vagrantc> prpplague: nope. only real hardware i've tried was a sheevaplug
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| 15:18 | <Lns> vmlintu: that would be SO nice for media heavy workstations. Man I can't wait till next school year when I roll out 10.04 =) I'm hoping some of the TCs they have will be OK (maybe a ram upgrade) for at least SOME multimedia stuff
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| 15:21 | <vmlintu> Lns: I wouldn't do video editing with atom 330, but the newer atoms probably can handle that too..
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| 15:21 | <prpplague> vagrantc: i'll see what kind of spare boards i have around that might be useful
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| 15:38 | <AndyGraybeal> okay.. so i got a question, and i'm a newb, so go easy on me... i'm looking at the 1500 series thin client on disklessworkstation.com -- it's got dualheads, i'm wondering if i can run dual-seated terminals on it... in otherwords -- can i run two monitors and two keyboards and mice off that station seperately? does that make sense? i'm sorry if this is an ignorant question.
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| 15:45 | <vagrantc> AndyGraybeal: it's probably technically possible, though i don't know if it woudl be easy or not.
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| 15:45 | i think the term for such a setup is called "multi-seat"
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| 15:47 | <khris4> hello
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| 15:49 | <alkisg> AndyGraybeal: I've done that with my laptop. It isn't easy, and the new gdm made it even harder. And to do that in an LTSP terminal would be even more harder, so I don't think you'd want to even try it ;)
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| 15:50 | <vagrantc> it's an interesting model, for sure, as modern hardware is way overkill for a tradition thin client
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| 15:51 | <alkisg> I think I had tried this one: http://wiki.c3sl.ufpr.br/multiseat/index.php/Mdm
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| 15:53 | So... a networking question: would it be possible for nbd-client to send (with nc) which nbd image it wants, and for nbdrootd to receive it (again with nc) and call nbd-server with the appropriate parameter? This way we could use the same NBD_PORT for all images...
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| 15:54 | *maybe nbdrootd would use stdin, not nc, as it runs from inetd.
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| 16:01 | <Lns> AndyGraybeal: Using a thin client as a multi-seat system, ...at the least, you'll probably want to have Gbit networking going to it from the server =)
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| 16:02 | I've been wanting to do that with my home workstation so my wife and I can be on it at the same time =)
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| 16:02 | but that's a much simpler setup
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| 16:04 | <AndyGraybeal> carbm1, alkisg, lns .. thank you for your responses.. sorry i had to renew my IP address for some strange reason and didn't se your responses.
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| 16:04 | until now i mean.
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| 16:07 | <AndyGraybeal> oh vagrantc, just so you know, i realiz that multi-seat is the correct term.. recently in documentation and forums.. i've been reading that if it's only two seats.. they call it dual-seat.. i just thought that was cute and more descriptive... but yes, multi-seat :)
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| 16:09 | so aside from the multiseated thinclient idea, i'm wondering what is the best documenation to read for setting this up with CentOS? i work at a restaurant, and we need atleast 11 workstations but we can't really afford nice shiny new equipment. this is the first time that i've actually looked into thin clients... and seeing that they go for $350 is a relief.
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| 16:10 | is there a way i can run virtual machines inside ltsp?
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| 16:10 | i'm sorry - i don't know the foundation of ltsp.. so this might be a really dump questin
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| 16:11 | everyone that works here is used to windows, so i am wondering if i can run something lke qemu/kvm with windows on top to ween them off of windows and head towards linux eventually.. when they can handle it.
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| 16:14 | <vagrantc> you can connect to windows terminal services via RDP using rdesktop, and ltsp has some built-in support for that
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| 16:15 | <AndyGraybeal> ah interesting.
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| 16:16 | thank you that's awesome.
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| 16:16 | <vagrantc> LTSP does tend to bring up terms such as "awesome" now and again. :)
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| 16:16 | <AndyGraybeal> :)
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| 16:16 | i'm sorry if it's non-formal.
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| 16:17 | <vagrantc> no need to be sorry... this is suppose to be fun, not formal. :)
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| 16:18 | <AndyGraybeal> thank you :)
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| 16:20 | <Gadi> vagrantc: please pass the Grey Poupon
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| 16:20 | * Gadi forgot to roll down his window | |
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| 16:29 | <alkisg> For my local setups, I'm thinking of diverting /etc/init/cron.conf, to completely disable cron on thin/fat clients (to get rid of apt-xapian-index, logrotate, mlocate etc). Should I expect any bad side effects from doing so?
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| 16:31 | <AndyGraybeal> since i'm new to this, what kinda hardware do you guys use?
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| 16:33 | <AndyGraybeal> http://www.disklessworkstations.com/200118.html <-- this thing looks great
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| 16:34 | please tell me what you all thinka bout this - is it just a newb reaction that this client looks good?
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| 16:35 | <khris4> anyone have issue with remote terminal service on unbuntu? I keep getting a message "peer reset connection" and then the windows close every few minutes
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| 16:40 | * alkisg also wonders if we should be running mksquashfs with `nice` in front of it :) | |
| 16:41 | <AndyGraybeal> is there documentatin for setting up LTSP on CentOS?
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| 16:43 | <vagrantc> AndyGraybeal: your closest bet for anything recent (i.e. supported) woudl be fedora.
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| 16:45 | <AndyGraybeal> ah fedora, thank you
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| 16:46 | <vagrantc> i've heard of people setting up an ubuntu LTSP chroot on a centos server...
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| 16:46 | something like that might be another way to go
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| 16:46 | <AndyGraybeal> ah interesting, 'm still confused about chroot
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| 16:53 | <AndyGraybeal> something like a virtual server?
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| 17:01 | <vagrantc> AndyGraybeal: in the case of LTSP, the chroot is just the environment where the root filesystem for the thin-clients is built and maintained, and is what's exported over the network for the thin-clients.
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| 18:01 | <comfrey> AndyGraybeal: a bit spendy
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| 19:35 | <comfrey> open rd looks neat, but a bit of overkill for a thin client
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| 19:36 | http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-20-openrd-base.aspx
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| 19:47 | <comfrey> i guess the guruplug is not out till april
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| 19:47 | http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-33-guruplug-display.aspx
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| 22:41 | <map7> I'm having trouble with a thin client which uses the Intel GMA950 graphics driver, is there anyway to add this module 'intelfb' to the client image?
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| 22:43 | I already have package 'xorg-video-intel' installed, but that doesn't seem to include the intelfb driver
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| 22:43 | <sbalneav> Which package does? Just install that in the chroot.
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| 22:43 | <map7> I don't know which package does
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| 22:43 | that's the problem
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| 22:45 | I know that if I boot off an Ubuntu 9.10 32bit Live CD the driver works, but if I boot off my client image (Ubuntu 9.10 32bit as well) it doesn't work unless I use the VESA driver
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| 22:45 | but the VESA driver does not do enough for my liking
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| 22:47 | <sbalneav> Don't know myself.
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| 22:47 | <map7> Maybe it's not in a package I might have to compile the module myself would that be possible?
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| 22:47 | or would it most likely be in a package?
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| 22:48 | <sbalneav> Not sure.
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| 22:55 | <map7> I might try this, 1. upgrading to the latest kernel 2.6.32-8, 2. install all packages which the live cd has into my client image, 3. upgrade to ltsp 5.2 and upgrade my image
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| 22:59 | <johnny> why do you want fb?
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| 22:59 | that's not related to using vesa in X
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| 22:59 | or do you mean the vesafb on the console?
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| 22:59 | /me pokes sbalneav
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| 22:59 | sup :)
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| 23:00 | <map7> I would like full 3d support and high resolution (1920x1080) support for the Intel GMA950 chipset on my thin client
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| 23:00 | when I load the ubuntu live cd and do a 'lspci -v' I see it's using the kernel module intelfb
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| 23:01 | I must not have this on my client image as I cannot set it to use intelfb and have to set it to VESA to get any gui happening on my thin client
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| 23:01 | <johnny> tha'ts not related to intefb
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| 23:01 | intelfb is only for console
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| 23:01 | not X
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| 23:01 | doesn't do 3d
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| 23:01 | the drm driver is what you need
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| 23:02 | not that i can offer any more information than that..
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| 23:02 | but i can definitely tell you intelfb isn't gonna be helping
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| 23:02 | i'm suprised ubuntu ever shipped that
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| 23:03 | <map7> thank you
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| 23:03 | Doesn't the Intel GMA950 use an open source driver?
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| 23:08 | johnny would upgrading to LTSP 5.2 and rebuilding my image help at all?
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| 23:15 | <johnny> no.. ltsp 5.2 wouldn't help at all
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| 23:15 | i don't know anything about the 950
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| 23:16 | is that the same as poulsbo ?
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| 23:16 | no
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| 23:16 | that's the 500..
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| 23:17 | the kernel you get in in the chroot should be good enough to do the right thing
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| 23:17 | the kernel package should be the exact same between your server and client
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| 23:17 | so.. you should have the intel drm drivers
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