IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 14 March 2007 (all times are UTC)

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05:55	<uuuuuuuu> i'm following the boot sequence of ltsp 4.2
05:56	and i'm missing something
05:56	where does the /tmp/inittab comes?
05:56	i followed till the switchroot exec and it's supossed to run /sbin/init
05:57	but at this time /tmp/inittab doesn't seem to exist (?)
05:59	is /sbin/init an ltsp one or a general one? where are the sources?
06:00	i followed switchroot sources from the bootutils package, don't know if there is an ltsp one
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06:14	<kaminski-ltsp-br> hi
06:16	<cliebow_> rc.sysinit takes over after switchroot doesnt it?
06:16	talk to jammcq by and by
06:17	<uuuuuuuu> why? i mean, /sbin/init is supossed to read /etc/inittab
06:17	in inittab there is a line for rc.sysinit
06:17	but
06:18	/etc/inittab is a symlink to /tmp/inittab
06:18	and i don't see where it comes from (it seems to me like /tmp is empt at this point)
06:18	<ogra> inittab is sooo last century ... time that upstart takes over everywhere :)
06:19	<cliebow_> upstart rocks..once you stop editting inittab and wondering ehy nothing changes
06:19	<uuuuuuuu> i'm supossing here that /sbin/init is a "normal" one
06:19	<ogra> i'd suspect it gets linked from the initramfs' one ... or the one from initramfs gets copied to /tmp
06:20	cliebow_, you shouldnt have an inittab if you use upstart .. else something is broken ... upstart removes it usually
06:20	<uuuuuuuu> there isn't inittab in the initramfs
06:22	<cliebow_> well when you updaatte from breezy to dapper to edgy to feisty there is one left over isnt there?
06:22	<uuuuuuuu> does dhcpcd create it?
06:22	hmmm
06:23	i don't think so...
06:23	<cliebow_> jammcq knows 8~)
06:24	<uuuuuuuu> initramfs' init just mkdirs /newroot/tmp (so it's empty?)
06:24	<cliebow_> hmm.dont think i imported one..
06:24	<uuuuuuuu> and does switchroot
06:25	switchroot does all the "magic" to get into the newroot environment _and_ execs /sbin/init as far as i can see
06:26	no init param, so picks the first of the initprogs array, which is /sbin/init
06:26	i must be missing something
06:27	initramfs's init -> switchroot -> /sbin/init
06:27	i've seen the sources of initramfs' init and switchroot (from bootutils)
06:28	and guessing /sbin/init is a "standard" one
06:28	and can't see where /tmp/inittab comes from
06:28	<jammcq> the /tmp/inittab gets built by the rc.early_sysinit script, called from the initramfs AFTER mounting the NFS root
06:29	that way, we can build an inittab that contains ONLY the things we need
06:32	<uuuuuuuu> let me see...
06:35	* jammcq is heading to the office. catch ya'll in a bit
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06:56	<loca\|host> thin client are mounting local usb sticks successfully when i've read the wiki, only problem is that mounted devices are allways empty
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07:15	<uuuuuuuu> jammcq, hello again
07:15	i think i'm looking to the wrong initramfs
07:16	/opt/ltsp-4.2/2.6.17.8-ltsp-1/initramfs.gz
07:16	<jammcq> hmm, that's a good one
07:17	<uuuuuuuu> the same that is in the kernel image?
07:17	<jammcq> well, there's both a kernel image and an initramfs for the 2.6.17.8 kernel
07:17	<uuuuuuuu> this initramfs' init doesn't call rc.anything after mounting NFS...
07:18	<jammcq> are you looking in /init ?
07:18	<uuuuuuuu> yes?
07:18	<jammcq> lemme look at mine. it's been a while since I wrote that
07:18	<uuuuuuuu> iniramfs.gz's /init
07:19	last change log is 10/08/2005 :)
07:19	i don't know where the in-kernel initramfs is...
07:20	<jammcq> "in-kernel" ?
07:20	dunno what that means
07:20	<uuuuuuuu> english is not my mother lingua xD
07:21	i mean, the initramfs that is joined to the kernel
07:21	image
07:21	<jammcq> it's the same thing as the file you are looking at
07:21	<ogra> there is no in-kernel initramfs, actually the purpose of initramfs is to have as much as possible outside of the kernel image to keep it small :)
07:21	<jammcq> for Etherboot, they are joined together with mknbi, but for PXE boot, they are separate files
07:22	<uuuuuuuu> yes yes
07:22	when i said "in-kernel" i should say "in-kernel-image"
07:22	same file, glued together
07:22	i know it's userspace stuff
07:22	<jammcq> ah, I found it
07:23	it's hard coded in the source code for switchroot
07:23	<uuuuuuuu> ahhhh
07:23	<jammcq> system("/etc/rc.early_sysinit");
07:23	<uuuuuuuu> i was guessing that...
07:23	<jammcq> that happens just before running the real 'init'
07:23	<uuuuuuuu> in _yours_
07:23	<jammcq> yep
07:23	<uuuuuuuu> so i said "bootutils source code" to point out this :)
07:24	<jammcq> we modified switch-root to suite our needs
07:24	<uuuuuuuu> where is available your source?
07:24	i was guessing it, but didn't know for sure
07:25	<jammcq> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LBE
07:25	<uuuuuuuu> of course...
07:26	my fault then, looking at the wrong sources :P
07:26	thank you!
07:27	<jammcq> are you trying to modify it? or just learn how it works?
07:27	<uuuuuuuu> learn how it works, at first
07:28	i want to put mythtv into the client's root
07:29	do you know mythtv?
07:30	<jammcq> I know what it is, but i've never used it
07:30	<uuuuuuuu> records tv shows in the server, see them from the clients
07:31	it has LiveTV also viewable from the clients (time shifting and such)
07:32	the client side (mythfrontend) must run in the client (of course)
07:32	not in a remote X session
07:33	so i've got to modify the rootfs of the client
07:33	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> morning \| b'dias
07:33	<uuuuuuuu> sh3mh4mf0r4sh, c u
07:34	is like the "install application X in the client" or something
07:36	<ogra> uuuuuuuu, if you want to modify, i'd really go with ltsp5 instead of 4.2 ... saves a lot of compile time etc
07:36	<uuuuuuuu> so i started to follow the whole boot process
07:36	i'm looking at it too :)
07:37	but i've got 4.2 already up for X terminals
07:37	i'm on gentoo
07:38	<ogra> we have tarballs for ltsp5 now ...
07:40	<uuuuuuuu> i see
07:40	debian and ubuntu
07:40	<ogra> right
07:40	pick one
07:41	* ogra woiuld suggest ubuntu, since debian is still a bit behind)
07:42	<uuuuuuuu> no problem if my "host" is gentoo?
07:42	<ogra> nope
07:43	the client environment is only executed on the client ...
07:43	<uuuuuuuu> well, i'll have to learn apt-get :P
07:43	<ogra> so you netboot debian or ubuntu chroots on the clients ...
07:43	<uuuuuuuu> i know, just didn't know if there was any host dependencies
07:43	it's isolated then
07:43	ok
07:44	i'll give it a try :)
07:44	<ogra> there are some instructions (you need to copy the kernel to your tftpdir etc) on the wiki
07:45	<uuuuuuuu> will my 4.2 kernel do?
07:45	<ogra> no
07:45	<uuuuuuuu> i've got already set up 4.2
07:45	<ogra> you need to use the kernel and initramfs from the chroots
07:46	<uuuuuuuu> from the downloaded tarballs?
07:46	<ogra> ubuntu uses 2.6.17 or 2.6.20 debian uses 2.6.18 none of them compatible with the 4.2 one
07:46	there is a script called ltsp-update-kernels, that should do all you need on the server side
07:47	<uuuuuuuu> distro independent?
07:47	<ogra> should be linked from th ewiki instructions
07:47	ifg not, complain at jammcq ;)
07:48	<uuuuuuuu> i guess it's http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5TarballInstructions
07:49	out of topic but... do you know how to extrat a raminitfs from a kernel image?
07:49	with commands i mean (of course it get extractet when the kernel runs :P )
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07:59	<uuuuuuuu> gotta go, thanks for all :)
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08:31	<stratus> ogra: around?
08:31	<ogra> partially
08:31	(we have beta freeze tomorrow, i'm very busy)
08:32	<stratus> ogra: heh, oh i've some quick ltspfs questions. e.g: what's up with that udev script (does it really run or is 'junk' ?) ; what add that files in /var/run during thin-client boot?
08:32	there's no rush but if you remember these, that's enough. :-)
08:33	<ogra> we dont use to ship "junk" in our packages :P
08:33	indeed its used
08:33	but debians udev is broken afaik
08:33	they heavily tweak upstream stuff which we dont
08:34	the udev scripts should just exec the add/remove_fstab_entry scripts from /lib/udev
08:35	according to vagrant that worked when he packaged ltspfs for sid
08:36	<stratus> oh, unfortunately ltspfs udev code into sid is broken
08:36	<ogra> ltsp-client-setp adds the dir in /ver/run (not sure you need that on debian unless you use /var/run in a tmpfs there) we only use it in ubuntu because it automagically gets wiped on reboot
08:37	* ogra needs a new keyboard it seems
08:37	<stratus> hmm
08:38	<ogra> configure_localdev() {
08:38	if get_boolean "$LOCALDEV" ; then
08:38	if [ ! -d /var/run/drives ];then
08:38	mkdir /var/run/drives
08:38	fi
08:38	/usr/bin/ltspfsd -a
08:38	etc etc
08:39	thats from the ltsp-client-setup initscript
08:39	<stratus> oh no, the drives directory is there for me
08:39	but there's no dotfiles
08:39	.delayed-mount or something like that
08:39	<ogra> thats created by /usr/sbin/delayed_mounter (which is also started from this function
08:39	)
08:40	if os.path.exists('/tmp/.ltspfs-socket') and \
08:40	os.path.exists('/var/run/.delayed-mount'):
08:40	f = open('/var/run/.delayed-mount')
08:40	thats from delayed_mounter
08:41	<stratus> delayed_mounter isn't starting for me, i'll investigate
08:41	<ogra> err, wait
08:42	thts code to read '/var/run/.delayed-mount'
08:42	<stratus> heh right, just figured out it too
08:42	<ogra> add_fstab_entry has the bits
08:42	<stratus> there's the os.path.exists() before the open
08:42	<ogra> else
08:42	echo "${MOUNTPOINT} ${1} ${2}" >> /var/run/.delayed-mount
08:42	fi
08:42	from add_fstab_entry
08:43	so udev should create the dotfile
08:43	indeed, delayed mounts are only used if you plugged in something before login
08:43	<stratus> right, the point is add_fstab_entry is running only after i remove the floppy module and then reinsert
08:44	edubuntu 6.10, if i recall correctly
08:44	<ogra> hmm
08:44	<stratus> i've added a simple echo for a file in the tmp and it doesn't run during boot
08:44	<ogra> floppy isnt handled by .delayed-mount
08:44	<stratus> if i remove the floppy module and then reinsert it into the kernel, add_fstab_entry runs
08:45	<ogra> but by .static-device
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08:45	<stratus> i see, but shouldn't add_fstab_entry run during boot using edubuntu 6.10?
08:45	due to the udev 'hook'
08:45	<ogra> if thats not working right, its a bug, sbalneav did the floppy implementation, i sadly have no floppies around at all anymore to even test anything
08:46	right, it shouled run during boot
08:46	you should wait for sbalneav, he wrote that part
08:46	<stratus> oh, ok
08:46	the most strange thing is that it's creating the required stuff into /var/run
08:47	<ogra> it is ?
08:47	<stratus> but i'm sure it wasn't through the add_fstab_entry
08:47	<ogra> well, thats the only piece creating dotfiles in there
08:47	<stratus> since it haven't added the bit into the /etc/fstab nor it has created my file (through the echo call i've added into add_fstab_entry)
08:47	just rebooted the thin-client
08:47	and that was the scenario
08:48	rmmod'ing floppy and reinserting i've the fstab entry and the file in /tmp
08:48	<ogra> weird
08:48	sounds like a race condition
08:48	<stratus> trying to echo for /var/run/foo instead /tmp
08:48	yes
08:48	wrote!
08:49	looks like add_fstab_entry is running, but too early
08:49	or something should be done earlier
08:53	ogra: thanks
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09:43	<ogra> jammcq, if yu build a new tarball, make sure to generate it on an en_US or en_GB system btw, the ltsp-build-client script uses the servers locale and keymap settings to preconfigure the clients now
10:03	<jammcq> ogra: as far as i'm concerned en_US is the ONLY system :)
10:03	<ogra> haha
10:04	just wanted to point that out
10:04	<cliebow> ogra i tried an update to feisty on ppc..got dependency probs..so ill wait
10:06	<ogra> what kind of deps ?
10:08	<cliebow> ill look again..cant remember from the other day
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10:26	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> hiiiiii
10:26	jammcq: did you receive my email?
10:27	jammcq: anyway.. forgot it.! i fix my problem
10:27	:)
10:27	so... have some troubles with 5 versions..
10:27	have to go 12pm
10:27	so need really fix early before that
10:28	I right now make upgrade from 4.2 to 5
10:28	and fuse module is loaded
10:28	but not works the floppy, cdrom, and pen drives?
10:28	i read here lts.conf new in 5 change little things like Y -> TRUE
10:28	i test both
10:28	and nothing
10:28	any idea?
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10:38	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> hiii need help fast! :\|
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10:50	<ogra> sh3mh4mf0r4sh, LOCALDEV=True has to be set in lts.conf
10:52	i'm not sure how god that works in the debian tarball local device support is not included in etch, so there might be a lot of manual hacking involved
10:53	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> uff
10:53	i set this
10:53	LOCAL_STORAGE = TRUE
10:53	ltsp change some variables enviroments?
10:53	of lts.conf inside?
10:54	<ogra> use LOCALDEV=True (copy and paste)
10:54	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> ok
10:54	<ogra> but as i said, ubuntu is the only distro that includes out of the box ltspfs support ...
10:55	so you might need to hack up the ltsp scripts to get it running on debian clients
10:56	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> uhmm have bad experiencie with ubunto
10:56	that part of ltsp-build-cliet not works how i expect
10:57	with debian got better results
10:57	<ogra> some thousands of users would disagree ;)
10:57	what was your problem with ltsp-build-client and did you file a bug on launchpad i missed so i can fix it for the next release ?
10:58	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> who use that ubuntu ltsp support to can send me that scripts? to try includdin in the etch ?
10:58	<ogra> its not that easy
10:58	but wait for vagrantc, he maintains the debian port of the ubuntu stuff ...
10:59	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> uff.. ok thanxs
10:59	<ogra> so what was your problem with ltsp-build-clien on ubuntu ? could you file me a bug ?
10:59	we have many many happy users who didnt have a problem with ltsp-build-client
10:59	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> well..
10:59	when i runnin with my mirror .. they installed all packages need it
11:00	<ogra> else you wont see the fix in debian either
11:00	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> but when i start client not boot up
11:00	<ogra> since debian is based on ubuntu with ltsp
11:00	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> look..
11:00	my serius problems
11:00	<ogra> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+filebug
11:00	please attach a log of the ltsp-build-client run
11:01	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> ok i got it for the next time..
11:01	<ogra> good
11:01	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> now the server is far away
11:01	<ogra> btw, ltsp-build-client just finished fine here ... i just did a testrun (i do several a week)
11:01	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> so now have to be continue with etch because NOW is running 5 ok
11:01	just left the localdev
11:01	and need test with your suggest
11:01	<ogra> right, vagrantc is your man then
11:01	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> ok
11:02	btw look this
11:02	when i have 4.2
11:02	<ogra> or just use the ubuntu tarball ;)
11:02	and never ever have both installed (4.2 and 5)
11:02	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> ubuntu tarball with etch?
11:02	why not?
11:02	<ogra> you can use the tarballs s you like with any distro
11:03	because ltspadmon changes settings you might need with ltsp 5 ... ltsp5 uses a different dhcpd.conf etc etc ...
11:03	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> yea have 1 problem to began setting up the 5
11:03	<ogra> they are two different implementations, having both installed will very likely get you into problems at some point
11:03	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> linux image not found
11:03	have to put on the dhcp.conf the nbi. image
11:03	to can start
11:04	<ogra> even if it runs now, if you use ltspadmin it might break in the future ... or if you upgrade anything one the serverside it might break etc etc
11:04	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> i have /opt/ltsp/ <- 5 debian_etch_i386
11:04	and /opt/ltsp-4.2/i386
11:04	<ogra> we dont test with 4.2 and 5 installed at the same time and dont advise to have both installed
11:05	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> but i dont understend
11:05	if i select wich root path i wan to start in the boot with dhcp
11:05	why not stay share in /opt/
11:05	<ogra> thats fine, i'm not talking about the rootpath
11:05	i'm talking about ltsp-server(-standalone) and ltsp-utils ...
11:06	in ubuntu these are not installable alongside ... in debian they are ... which will break
11:06	<AMSmith42> OK. My ltsp-build-client failed due to a connection reset. Do I just rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i386 and start over?
11:06	<ogra> AMSmith42, yes, you need to clean up the target before reinstalling
11:07	<AMSmith42> And that command should do it, right?
11:07	<ogra> the feisty version refuses to install if an unclean target is detected ... i think i might backort that function to edgy ...
11:07	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> have to hack anyway
11:07	<ogra> yes, rm -rf should do it
11:07	<AMSmith42> Thank you.
11:07	<ogra> sh3mh4mf0r4sh, well, the purpose of ltsp5 is that you dont have to hack actually :)
11:08	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> ok.. to continue have to test thw localdev=true .. if works i talking to much
11:08	<ogra> sh3mh4mf0r4sh, note the capitalization: LOCALDEV=True
11:08	true with a big T
11:08	and localdev all capitalized
11:09	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> yea yea.. just was to type here
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11:13	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> ogra: when i typed localdev in the lts have to reboot server or clients?
11:13	<ogra> clients
11:13	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> ok
11:13	i have the responsable person of the navigation room to reboot client.
11:13	i'm remote in the server
11:13	:\|
11:14	the men is by phone
11:14	man
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11:25	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> ogra: uff not work localdev = true :(
11:25	have to back to 4.2 again
11:25	<ogra> did you install all needed bits on the server for localdev ?
11:26	you need the ltspfs package installed
11:26	if it still doesnt work then, only vagrantc can help (or a switch to ubuntu)
11:26	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> ltpsfs not is a ethc packages
11:26	not.. prefers wait for vagrant
11:26	<ogra> no, its a sid package, it is not in etch
11:27	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> ahh have to add a sid mirror then
11:27	<ogra> as i said debian is a bit behind since most development happens in ubuntu
11:27	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> why not comment all this troubles in the wiki :?
11:27	<ogra> ltspfs simply didnt make it into sid
11:27	sh3mh4mf0r4sh, nobody has these problems ...
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11:28	<ogra> all users i know didnt have any prob using ltsp-build-client like advised in the ubuntu help docs
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11:28	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> so you know the 1st person
11:28	<ogra> right
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11:29	<ogra> but since i was not around when you had that problem i dont even know what was wrong for you
11:29	<cliebow> ubuntu rocks!
11:29	<ogra> running a plain "sudo ltsp-build-client" works on edgy as well as on feisty here
11:29	no errors, and all clients work out of the box woithout and changes
11:30	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> edgy alternative or edgy desktop?
11:31	<ogra> via net ...
11:31	but it should also work with the alternate CD
11:31	the desktop CD wont work, it doesnt have all ltsp bits
11:32	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> what i install in the server alternative or desktop
11:32	?
11:34	Configurando ltspfs (0.4.3+debian2) ...
11:34	<ogra> desktop
11:34	you need a desktop for ltsp
11:34	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> ok.. now. ltspfs is installed
11:34	what now?
11:34	reboot the client again?
11:34	<ogra> err, both isos install a desktop, ignore that
11:34	<Burgwork> jammcq: can i pm you?
11:35	<ogra> well, if the client knows how to handle localdev it should just work
11:35	Burgwork, you here ?
11:35	hi :)
11:35	<Burgwork> hey
11:35	looking for jammcq
11:35	sadly no ltsp in my office yet :(
11:36	<ogra> work on that then :)
11:36	<Burgwork> I am trying
11:37	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> ltspfs is a program that mounts fuse based filesystems that got exported by ltspfsd uff nice
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11:37	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> AUTHOR This manual page was written by Oliver Grawert ogra@ubuntu.com for the Debian system
11:38	hahahah
11:38	noway :)
11:38	<ogra> yeah, sorry that text is mine ... i should update it to something more descriptive
11:38	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> U!
11:38	jajaja
11:39	<ogra> you usually dont touch ltspfs or ltspfsd by hand ... but the debian policy requires a manpage for every executable ...
11:39	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> ogra: so did you think with this ltspfs, the fuse module loaded and localdev=true will be work right?
11:39	<ogra> right, else its something missing in the client tarball
11:39	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> i not touch nothing just apt-geinstall ltspfs don't do nothine more
11:45	ogra: in 4.2 when installed the fuse by wiki automatica out the floppy in the desktop
11:45	by error the users in the clients
11:45	deleting that
11:46	how can i re-activate that?
11:49	<ogra> i dont understand
11:50	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> later i explain better
11:50	now your ltspfs
11:50	i'm remote
11:50	how can i know by shell if when some pen drive is inserted to test
11:50	that module work
11:50	?
11:50	<ogra> mount
11:51	it will show if the user has a mounted ltspfs dir
11:51	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> mount have some lines
11:51	/dev/sda1 on / type ext3 (rw,errors=remount-ro)
11:51	tmpfs on /lib/init/rw type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,mode=0755)
11:51	proc on /proc type proc (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev)
11:51	sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev)
11:51	procbususb on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw)
11:51	<ogra> you look for ltspfs
11:52	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> udev on /dev type tmpfs (rw,mode=0755)
11:52	tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev)
11:52	devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,noexec,nosuid,gid=5,mode=620)
11:52	nfsd on /proc/fs/nfsd type nfsd (rw)
11:52	rpc_pipefs on /var/lib/nfs/rpc_pipefs type rpc_pipefs (rw)
11:52	<ogra> dont paste more than 3 lines here !
11:52	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> thats all
11:52	ok
11:52	<ogra> (see the channel topic)
11:52	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> kkk
11:52	not see the ltspfs
11:52	<ogra> if y user plugs in a device you will see a line with ltspfs in it
11:53	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> ah have to plug to can appears there
11:53	the pen drives not see either
11:53	uff
11:54	this is unstable for me :((
11:54	<ogra> thne likely somthing is missing from the debian tarball
11:54	vagrantc can help ... i have no idea what is missing there ... in ubuntu it works
11:54	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> ubuntu will be my last chance
11:54	ok thanxs by all your time
11:55	i have to go
11:55	<ogra> if you want to be on the sure side use edubuntu
11:55	it sets up ltsp out of the box during install
11:55	so you dont have to do anything
11:55	just install
11:55	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> and the floppis, cdroms, pen drives???
11:55	will works fine/
11:55	?
11:56	<ogra> yes with edubuntu edgy installed from the alternate CD
11:56	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> where i download edubuntu
11:56	for tomorrot tester
11:56	<ogra> http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.10/edubuntu-6.10-install-i386.iso
11:57	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> thanxs... tomorrow keep in touching contact
11:57	c'u
11:57	thanxs again
11:57	<ogra> ciao
11:57	<sh3mh4mf0r4sh> chao
11:57	* sh3mh4mf0r4sh is away
12:19	<loca\|host> thin client are mounting local usb sticks successfully when i've read the wiki, only problem is that mounted devices are allways empty
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12:50	<CapriCoRN^80> hi
12:50	can i download ltsp 5 using aptitude ?
12:50	on ubuntu
12:51	<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
12:53	<CapriCoRN^80> orga: is this ltsp-5 ?
12:54	<ogra> yes
12:54	ubuntu doesnt have any other ltsp
12:54	(since dapper at least)
12:55	<str4nd> ogra: my ltsp-clients open tty1 at default, how i can change it to open ldm tty7(?)?
12:57	<ogra> str4nd, dapper `
12:57	?
12:59	<str4nd> edgy...
12:59	<ogra> hmm
12:59	<str4nd> updated from dapper
13:00	<ogra> aahh ! thats it then :)
13:00	<str4nd> :)
13:00	<ogra> how did you update ?
13:00	(i mean the client chroot in /opt/ltsp)
13:01	<str4nd> hmm, something like sed -e 's/\sdapper/ edgy/g' -i /etc/apt/sources.list && apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade && apt-get -f install && dpkg --configure -a && reboot
13:01	aa.. i didnt update it?
13:01	<ogra> aha
13:01	thats your prob then :)
13:01	<str4nd> i upgraded to ltsp-5.0 at edgy
13:01	<ogra> easiest is to backup your lts.conf if you created one, wipe the chroot and run ltsp-build-client ...
13:02	<str4nd> yeah
13:03	<ogra> if you urgently want to keep the old chroot and upgrade: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update && sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get dist-upgrade (after you changed the sources.list in the chroot to edgy indeed)
13:03	but i'd recommend a rebuild with ltsp-build-client if you have the bandwith
13:03	<str4nd> 1000Mbps.. :)
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13:33	* AMSmith42 drools on your bandwidth and accidentally shorts it out.
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14:09	<mascote> hi
14:11	I'm from Brazil. I'd like to mount another directory from the LTSP server at the client (text terminal). For example: mkdir /xyz ; mount server_ltsp:/dir_export /xyz
14:12	Of course the server_ltsp:/dir_export is at the /etc/exports in ther LTSP's server.
14:12	Is it possible?
14:18	<__Core__> why not?
14:19	<mascote> hi __Core__
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14:33	<__Core__> hi
14:33	<mascote> hi
14:33	where are you from?
14:33	<__Core__> russia
14:34	<mascote> wow
14:34	what time is at russia now?
14:34	<__Core__> 10:30 pm
14:34	<mascote> here is 4:30pm
14:34	did you see my question?
14:35	<__Core__> yeap
14:35	<mascote> do you know if is possible?
14:36	<__Core__> i think it is possible, but as the ltsp client acctually works on the server, probably you will see all the folder which are allowed to be access by that user
14:36	<mascote> I just did the this: make /xyz
14:36	so: mount server_ltsp:/dir /xyz
14:37	I receive the follow anwsers: portmap: server localhost not responding, time out
14:38	<__Core__> it would work. but as i said, you are already on the server's file system. you should see that folder if your user has apropriate rights
14:38	<mascote> and: RPC: failed to contat pormap (errno -5)
14:38	the server /dir is export to all
14:39	<__Core__> can you try without exporting and mounting that directory?
14:39	<mascote> wow
14:40	I just write: /xyz and its works
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14:51	<__Core__> as i said )
14:52	anyone had a successful localizatioin done on ltsp client? with custom keyboard layout ?
14:56	<mistik1> Just pass the options in lts.conf
14:56	XKBLAYOUT = foo
14:56	Look up the corrent variables on the wiki
15:00	<mascote> thank you __Core__
15:00	mascote has left #ltsp
15:10	<__Core__> ok, i will try that
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15:13	<loca\|host> thin client are mounting local usb sticks successfully when i've read the wiki, only problem is that mounted devices are allways empty
15:14	<Gadi> loca\|host: make sure the user is a member of the "fuse" group
15:15	<loca\|host> it is
15:15	<Gadi> lsmod \| grep fuse
15:15	<loca\|host> Gadi, nadah :D
15:15	it's Debian Etch
15:15	<Gadi> sudo modprobe fuse
15:15	and add "fuse" to /etc/modules
15:16	(so it comes up on boot)
15:17	<loca\|host> ok
15:17	all done
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15:18	<Gadi> now, it should work (tho you may need to log the user out and back in)
15:18	or you may just be able to reinsert the stick
15:18	or media
15:19	<loca\|host> ok
15:19	and what about the rolling button of mouse
15:19	it doesnt work
15:19	<Gadi> X_MOUSE_PROTOCOL = "imps/2"
15:20	(in lts.conf)
15:24	<mistik1> Gadi:
15:24	Was that you who just messaged me?
15:27	<Gadi> not I
15:27	but, hi
15:28	<mistik1> It was Boyoung
15:28	kopete changed the alias name I had her under
15:29	<Gadi> heh
15:29	I wont even ask what alias you gave her ;)
15:30	<mistik1> Simple, her name ;-)
15:30	Dirty mind boy ;-)
15:30	<Gadi> a dirty mind is a sign of genius..... i hope
15:31	<mistik1> lol
15:31	I have a Changelog here for you man
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16:16	<loca\|host> my thin client didnt detect the soundcard, i put SOUND_DAEMON = alsa and esd
16:16	and nothing worked
16:16	<Gadi> uh... alsa will never work
16:16	only esd
16:16	or nothing
16:16	<ogra> erm, you use etch ?
16:17	with 4.2 or with ltsp5 ?
16:18	note that ltsp5 in etch has no local devcie support ....
16:18	so no USB drives without manual hacking
16:18	<loca\|host> no it's debian etch
16:18	with 4.2
16:18	<ogra> ah, k
16:18	not my realm then :)
16:19	<Gadi> loca\|host: is it a new-ish soundcard?
16:19	<loca\|host> ...
16:19	it's working with a local debian etch install
16:19	<Gadi> I highly recommend: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WorkInProgress#esd_ALSA_sound_on_LTSP_4_2
16:20	install that package
16:20	and then, if it still does not autodetect, specify the driver with:
16:20	<ogra> or take ubuntu feisty ;) with pulseaudio and alsa emulation ;)
16:20	<Gadi> SMODULE_01 = "snd-XXXXX"
16:20	ogra's such a pusher
16:20	<str4nd> LTSP 5.0 working at feisty?
16:20	<Gadi> listen, stop pushing stuff on the kids in the playground
16:21	<str4nd> :P
16:21	<Gadi> you've got fat kids here that'll just keep coming back for more after one hit
16:21	feisty isn't even out yet
16:22	:P
16:22	<loca\|host> :D
16:22	<ogra> str4nd, its working since breezy ... and it has localdev support since edgy in opposition to the other distro that has an e*** release
16:22	<Gadi> now he's just talkin smack
16:22	<ogra> (that will give us so many headdaches once etch releases :/)
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16:23	<ogra> debian really needs a prominent doc how ot set up localdev support with sid package before they release etch
16:24	<Gadi> ogra, my man - don't throw stones
16:24	:)
16:24	* ogra had two several hours lasting supports today with people on ltsp5/etch for localdev suppport
16:25	* Gadi had the same pleasure with edgy folks the other day in your absence
16:25	<Gadi> ;)
16:25	<ogra> and i dont even have a clue which parts were left out from our locladev implementation when it was merged
16:25	<Gadi> lol
16:25	<ogra> Gadi, the difference is that our chrrot contains all bits and pieces
16:26	*chroot
16:26	<Gadi> ah, but the results can be the same
16:26	there's some deeper meaning in all of that
16:26	:)
16:26	<ogra> in debian parts of the startscript are missing and the ltspfsd pacakge isnt installed in the chroot
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16:45	<Plouj> if I install ltsp-server-standalone on a debian system, does it install it's own dhcp server or something?
16:45	so that I don't need to configure/run my own dhcp server?
16:45	oooh, doh! that's exactly what the howto says
16:45	... http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto
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16:50	<Plouj> is ltsp-build-client taking so long because it's installing it's own Debian system?
16:50	<kikass> hellow world
16:51	anyone here help me with some authentication problems I am having?
16:53	<ogra> Plouj, ltsp-build-client --help ;) get a debian iso, loop mount it and use the --mirror option ;)
16:53	then it takes less than 10min
16:54	<bricode_> fatties will heal the world.
16:57	<Plouj> ok
16:58	no, about the dhcp/tftp configuration
16:59	the example says filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 but I don't have /ltsp
16:59	I only have /opt/ltsp
16:59	and I definately don't have a pxelinux.0 file anywhee
16:59	oh, actually I have it in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
16:59	<ogra> yep
17:00	<Plouj> so, I need to adjust that path, eh
17:00	<ogra> no
17:00	<Plouj> well, otherwise I'm getting a TFTP timeout
17:00	<ogra> you should have a preconfigured dhcpd.conf file in /etc/ltsp
17:00	thats the one that will actually be used
17:00	<bricode_> ogra: Is there an easy way to figure out which dhcpd.conf file gets used?
17:00	<Plouj> /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf says /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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17:01	<ogra> Plouj, yes, thats right
17:01	<Plouj> but I don't have /ltsp
17:01	<ogra> bricode_, with ltsp5 on debian based systems (well there is no other distro with it yet :) ) its always /etc/ltsp
17:02	Plouj, you do under /var/lib/tftpboot (which is / if you look from the outside world via tftp)
17:02	<bricode_> ogra: Well, if that's the case then my current installation is totally borked, but somehow magically works. Go figure.
17:02	<Plouj> ogra: oh
17:02	humm, is re-running ltsp-build-client pointless?
17:02	<ogra> yes
17:03	if it finished properly you should be fine for that part
17:03	it gives a clear success message in the end
17:03	<Plouj> it said success
17:03	<ogra> ok
17:03	check your inetd settings in /etc/inetd.conf anfd make sure inetd is running
17:03	its responsible for tftp
17:04	<plamengr> Hi, all! Gadi: 10x for your help with the logging on LDM, but one re-install solved the problem fundamentally :)
17:04	<Plouj> indeed, /etc/inetd.conf contains:
17:04	tftp dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
17:05	I wonder where tftpboot sends logs by default
17:06	<plamengr> I ran CD-ROM as a LocalDev, a week or two ago on Debian sid (and LTSP5), but now after dist-upgrade the folder /media/user/cdrom is empty :(
17:11	the message is:
17:11	Starting HAL: hald
17:11	cdrom: This disc doesn't have any tracks I recognize!
17:12	the USB stick, on the other side, runs in all cases
17:12	<ogra> hal?
17:13	how did you manage to get hal into the chroot ?
17:13	<plamengr> I read an article about PulseAudio
17:14	<Plouj> ogra: I'm not sure where I can find a debian etch packages cd that isn't outdated!
17:14	<plamengr> it needed maybe hal
17:14	the audio on the client is OK
17:15	<ogra> plamengr, you surely dont need hal (ubuntu feistys ltsp already uses pulse and alsa emulation)
17:16	<plamengr> I'm on Debian sid
17:16	<ogra> hal will pull in dbus ... and gain you very intresting results on the clients
17:16	<Gadi> ogra: is there a stable feisty chroot tarball?
17:16	<plamengr> maybe uninstall HAL?
17:16	<ogra> Gadi, not yet ... jammcq wanted to update the one thats there
17:17	but i'd suggest to wait until beta freeze (which is tomorrow) so it wont change much anymore
17:17	<Gadi> whats the date for feisty release?
17:17	<ogra> april 13th
17:17	<Gadi> cool
17:17	<ogra> plamengr, that should be your first step
17:17	plamengr, and dbus as well
17:17	<jammcq> ogra: is that change to ltsp-update-kernels gonna make it?
17:18	<Gadi> doesnt anyone at canonical know to beware the ides of march?
17:18	<ogra> or: more important: dbus
17:18	<plamengr> ok, thank you:)
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17:18	<ogra> jammcq, i think so, i will work through the night i think ... thinclient manager is so buggy that it will take me a lot of time still
17:19	and i didnt get one piece of usable artwork yet for edubuntu ...
17:19	both has to be ready in about 12h
17:19	<jammcq> cool, I'd really like to keep ltsp-update-kernels consistent with "upstream"
17:19	<ogra> jammcq, but since its a bugfix ...
17:20	<jammcq> :)
17:20	<ogra> jammcq, drop these quotation marks ;) we all are upstream, arent we ?
17:20	<jammcq> well, if there really is an upstream, I guess we're it
17:21	i've been trying to contact sbalneav, so we can get started on a real bzr repository for upstream. he seems to have fallen off the grid
17:21	<ogra> lets wait for feisty release, then i can make a merged upstream bzr branch
17:22	<Gadi> i luv it when jammcq starts talking in bad scifi movie techno speak
17:22	<ogra> i urgently want a makefile grid and a source tarball ...
17:22	<jammcq> :)
17:22	<ogra> so we can build it with plain make, have release tarballs and debian and ubuntu dont have so much problemns with the different dependencies
17:23	(note that i didnt mention automake, i really only want a plintext makefile in every folder)
17:24	<jammcq> ok, dinner time, gotta head home. I'll be back online in a bit
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17:28	<plamengr> The Local CD-ROM is OK, after the un-install of dbus & HAL :)
17:29	<ogra> :)
17:29	<plamengr> so is the audio
17:29	<ogra> it hogs the device
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17:34	<Plouj> gah
17:34	what do I do if LTSP client installation ended abnormally ?
17:34	I got this error: http://pastebin.ca/395289
17:37	<plamengr> change the mirror maybe, rmdir /opt/ltsp/i386, and try again
17:38	<Plouj> lol, I almost did rm -rf /opt
17:38	what an I change the mirror to?
17:38	<ogra> if you only have ltsp in opt that wont do any harm :)
17:38	<Plouj> oh yeah, tru, ogra
17:39	ogra: you suggest that I use a CD image, and I would like to
17:39	cuz running this for the third time is getting boring
17:39	any idea which CD version of Debian I need for this?
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17:40	<ogra> sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom
17:40	the line i use in ubuntu ...
17:40	<Plouj> ogra: yeah, but what image?
17:41	as in, what verison of debian
17:41	<ogra> if you mount it anywhere else change the url
17:41	no idea, etch i suppose ...
17:41	<Plouj> etch doesn't have a packages cd
17:41	it only has a netinstall cd which doesn't come with packages
17:41	<ogra> ouch
17:42	why is that ?
17:42	<Plouj> because etch is changing daily
17:42	<ogra> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/DownLoads#DownloadTarball probably tahts easier then ....
17:42	ltsp surely didnt change since it was rolled
17:43	<Plouj> so I just extract that to /opt/ltsp?
17:44	<ogra> yep
17:44	probably mv it to i386 ... so you dont need to change the server configs
17:44	<Plouj> and that completely replaces running ltsp-build-client ?
17:45	<ogra> its is what ltsp-build-client builds
17:45	minus the copying of kernel and sshkeys
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17:59	<Plouj> ogra: did you mean move /opt/ltsp/debian_etch_i386 to /opt/ltsp/i386 ?
17:59	<ogra> yes
18:00	<Plouj> and I need to extract ltsp-update-kernels-2.tar.bz2 and ltsp-update-sshkeys-2.tar.bz2 somewhere too?
18:01	<ogra> do you still have ltsp-server installed ?
18:01	<Plouj> I don't know
18:01	<ogra> check it ... it has these two scripts
18:02	<Plouj> yeah, I already have it installed
18:02	<ogra> run them both
18:03	then you should be done
18:04	<Plouj> humm
18:04	TFTP open timeout
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18:11	<Plouj> well, that's strange
18:11	I can connect to the tftp server just fine from another machine, manually
18:11	maybe the PXE booted machine isn't being told to retrive the correct file
18:12	<ogra> maybe you have another dhcp server running in your network ?
18:13	<Plouj> not really
18:13	the PXE client gets an IP alright
18:14	I'm trying to remember what's the name of the app to watch network traffic other than ethereal
18:15	<ogra> it doesnt matter if your client gets an ip ...
18:15	it matters if your client gets the right inof about tftp ... if you have two dhcp servers you might get answers from the wrong one
18:16	<Plouj> ok
18:16	but I only have one :)
18:16	<ogra> wireshark, its the successor of ethereal
18:16	<Plouj> no, not that one
18:16	I'm thinking of some other one
18:16	it was in some ubuntu forum HOWTOs
18:17	<ogra> hmm
18:17	tcpdump ?
18:17	<Plouj> tethereal
18:17	or something
18:18	yes
18:24	oh, apparently tethereal is wireshark
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18:25	<ogra> yes, i said that above :)
18:26	<cliebow_> ogra:anyone reported cupsys probs in ppc dist-upgrade in ppc?
18:27	<ogra> cliebow, i think i read something about cupsys ... not ppc specific
18:27	<cliebow_> ill hunt around A LITTLle ..low priority
18:29	<ogra> cliebow_, tkamppeter in #ubuntu-devel is our (and upstreams) cups maintainer
18:29	<cliebow_> ok..ill maybe catch him tomorrow..
18:30	or is tomoroow last minute feisty effort?
18:31	<Plouj> well, I even added next-server <tftpserverip>; and I still get a TFTP timeut
18:32	<ogra> cliebow_, nope, but the last attempt for bigger code additions and artwork deadline ... after betafreeze we only do bugfixes and small additions
18:32	<cliebow_> i see
18:33	dont want be a pain in the arse
18:33	<ogra> well, but you want a working system for release :)
18:33	so bugs need to be fixed
18:33	<cliebow_> ill get stuff together best i caan so as not waste someone's time...
18:42	<Plouj> humm
18:42	for some reason, the machine doesn't even send tftp requests
18:42	or at least the server isn't receiving them
18:42	<ogra> are you sure it knows PXE ?
18:42	<Plouj> I'm using a vmware virtual machine
18:43	<ogra> do you have a managed switch inbetween ?
18:43	<Plouj> yes, I think ut knows PXE
18:43	<ogra> hmm
18:43	<Plouj> well, DHCP discovery works, so yeah the network is there
18:45	humm, I dunno what I'm doing wrong
18:45	here is my dhcp config: http://pastebin.ca/395362
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18:45	<cliebow_> jammcq!!!!
18:47	<ogra> Plouj, ltsp5 uses /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
18:47	<Plouj> humm, there might be a vmware dhcp server that's messing things up, although I tried to configure it to not do anything
18:47	<jammcq> cliebow_: hey chuckster
18:47	<ogra> unless yu hacked up dhcp3-server's initscript
18:47	<Plouj> ogra: not if I don't install ltsp-server-standalone and if I use my dhcp server
18:48	ogra: why would dhcp3-server use /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ?
18:48	<ogra> do you have a /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf or not ?
18:49	<Plouj> ogra: I do
18:49	<ogra> if that file is there dhcpd will use it
18:49	Stevecar has left #ltsp
18:49	<ogra> in any case
18:49	<cliebow_> 8`)
18:49	<Plouj> ogra: but /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf sets subnet 192.168.0.0 which is not what my client is receiving
18:49	my client is receving the 10.1.2.0 subnet which is what I configured in /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf
18:50	<ogra> thast weird ...
18:50	*thats
18:50	<cliebow_> weird...
18:50	<ogra> if [ -f /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ]; then
18:50	CONFIG_FILE=/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
18:50	fi
18:50	thast from the dhcp3-server initscript ...
18:50	<cliebow_> hmmm\\
18:50	<Plouj> not here, ogra
18:51	:q
18:51	oops
18:51	`grep ltsp /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server` shows nothing
18:51	Burgwork has quit IRC
18:51	<ogra> hmm, ok
18:51	<Plouj> I'm 100% sure my dhcp server uses /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf and that my client is connecting to my dhcp server, not vmware's or anything else
18:52	<ogra> seems debian dropped that patch ... that will gain us documentaion probs :/
18:52	<Plouj> heh
18:53	<ogra> thats not funny ... this debian release gets worse and worse ...
18:54	<Plouj> :(
18:54	<ogra> no localdev support ... suddenly a different config
18:55	<Plouj> they can't please everybody
18:55	ok, this really doesn't make sense what I'm experiencing here
18:55	I know my tftp server works
18:55	I was able to get a file by running atftp on a different machine
18:55	I saw a tcpdump log of the network traffic then
18:55	now, with this vmware client, I see no tftp traffic
18:56	but it shows:
18:56	PXE-E32: TFTP open timeout
18:56	TFTP...._
18:56	<ogra> sounds very much like an vmware prob
18:56	<jammcq> how did you setup your network interface within vmware? bridged/nat/hostonly ?
18:57	<Plouj> jammcq: I created a hostonly network. I configured the vmware dhcp server to not do anything on that network. I'm using a VM running Debian to setup the DHCP and TFTP server for the ltsp clients
18:57	and I'm also using VMs for clients themselves...
18:57	<jammcq> hmm, for host-only, just use vmware's dhcp server and give it your dhcpd.conf file
18:57	I usually do "bridged" and then run my dhcp server on eth0
18:58	did you configure your own dhcp server to listen on vmnet1 ?
18:58	<Plouj> jammcq: no, but DHCP seems to work regardless
18:59	my VM clients get an ip from my VM DHCP server
18:59	<jammcq> hmm, seems like you are reporting it's not working
18:59	<Plouj> no, DHCP 'seem' to work fine
18:59	although, I can't ping the clients after they aquire an IP
18:59	<jammcq> there's no icmp in PXE or Etherboot
18:59	so you can't ping them until the Linux kernel is actually running
18:59	<Plouj> what isn't working for sure is TFTP - the server isn't seeing any requests for files
19:00	jammcq: I thought so
19:00	but the clients say TFTP timed out
19:00	<jammcq> Plouj: which distro?
19:00	<Plouj> I'm using Debian Etch on the VM dhcp/tftp/ltsp server
19:00	and I'm using ltsp5
19:00	<jammcq> Plouj: have you seen this article: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/DhcpdSiaddr
19:01	basically, you'll need a 'next-server' entry in your dhcpd.conf file
19:01	<Plouj> jammcq: yeah, I added that
19:01	<jammcq> k
19:03	<Plouj> a bridged network would connect the VM's to my lan, which already has a DHCP server
19:03	and I'm not planning on tweaking that for this test setup
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19:09	<cliebow_> reggae night in Maine!!
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19:10	ogra_ is now known as ogra
19:11	<ogra> jammcq, if you anyhow run into sbalneav, please make him contact me very urgent ... seems the ltsp chapter he wrote for the edubuntu book we ship isnt what he wrote for us ...
19:12	i.e. it looks very much like ltsp 3 or 4.0 or something ... talking about xfree 3.something
19:12	<jammcq> oh?
19:12	<cliebow_> weird
19:12	<jammcq> I'll call him right now
19:13	<ogra> i mailed him as well ...
19:13	i just checked the book for the first time, luckily before the freeze, i suspect someone merged the wrong SVN stuff
19:13	<jammcq> ok, I left voice mail
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19:31	<ogra> thanks :)
19:33	jammcq, is it really worth bzipping ltsp-update-kernels/sshkeys ?
19:33	<jammcq> ogra: I only did that, so that it would download, rather than open in the browser
19:33	<ogra> ah
19:33	<jammcq> if it were just a shell script, it wouldn't offer to save it by default
19:34	<ogra> right you need to set that up on the server side ...
19:36	<Plouj> whoo whoo!
19:36	I was stupid enough to have two machines with the same IP on a subnet
19:36	<cliebow_> sounds like a form of WOOT!
19:36	<Plouj> one was the HOST machine, the other one was the DHCP server...
19:36	* Plouj watches ltsp client booting
19:37	<cliebow_> BETTER than sex..
19:37	well..
19:37	i dont say that
19:37	<Plouj> ok...
19:37	now, what username should I use...
19:38	<cliebow_> must have a username on your server
19:38	<Plouj> humm
19:38	that seems to restart gdm
19:39	<cliebow_> might have to regenreate keys..with ltsp-update-ssh-keys
19:39	* cliebow_ cliebow ducks causde it is prob wrong
19:40	<Plouj> humm, it still restarts the gdm and doesn't do anything else
19:40	it doesn't even say that my password is wrong
19:41	<cliebow_> you have a homedir for said user?
19:41	on server
19:41	<Plouj> yeah
19:41	I can ssh in and stuff
19:42	<cliebow_> is that gdm or ldm?
19:43	<Plouj> whatever the default login manager is
19:43	looks like gdm to me though
19:43	g333k_laptop has joined #ltsp
19:43	<cliebow_> a real whitr gfm?
19:43	heh
19:43	a reaally white gdm?
19:43	<Plouj> yes
19:43	<cliebow_> i believe ldm then
19:44	<Plouj> well, it's not completely white
19:44	it's more like Ubuntu colours
19:44	<cliebow_> which is i think a cunning cover for ssh login..
19:45	on your server if netstat -anp\|grep ":177" shows nothing gdm isnt even ;listening
19:45	<Plouj> yeah, nothing
19:46	I don't think I ever insalled gdm myself
19:46	<cliebow_> i am out of my league at this point..but it sure sounds like ldm in ubuntu ltsp5
19:47	check perms on your homedir..for the hell of iot]
19:47	<Plouj> http://pastebin.ca/395415
19:47	<cliebow_> you Do have x running on your server
19:48	<Plouj> nope
19:48	I never installed X on my server
19:48	<jammcq> Plouj: do you have a desktop environment on your server?
19:48	like gnome or kde ?
19:48	<Plouj> jammcq: erm, no
19:48	<jammcq> well, that's the problem
19:48	LTSP gives you a session on the server
19:48	you've got no desktop environment on the server
19:48	<cliebow_> jammcq: you just watched me stuggle with that 8~)
19:48	<Plouj> I just followed this: http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto
19:48	heh
19:49	<jammcq> you don't need to run X on the console, but you certainly need to have something like Gnome or KDE installed
19:49	I think that document just describes how to the get LTSP bits installed
19:49	<cliebow_> can i chalk one up for cliebow?
19:50	<ogra> Plouj, did you run ltsp-update-sshkeys as i suggested ?
19:50	<Plouj> ogra: yes
19:50	* Plouj does apt-get install x-window-system kde kdm
19:50	<ogra> heh
19:50	<Plouj> 478 newly installed
19:51	<cliebow_> heh
19:51	<ogra> take GNOME its only 477
19:51	* ogra is kidding :)
19:51	<Plouj> nah
19:51	I wanna see what kde looks like
19:51	<cliebow_> hA!
19:51	<Plouj> I haven't used it for a long time
19:51	<ogra> doesnt install the kde package kdm alongside ?
19:51	<cliebow_> i think so
19:51	<Plouj> that's what http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/324 says
19:52	<cliebow_> i swore by kdm..til ubuntu
19:52	<Plouj> meh, I use fluxbox on my desktop
19:53	<cliebow_> icewm here..depending on which server
19:54	g333k_laptop has quit IRC
19:55	<ogra> jammcq, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/feisty-changes/2007-March/007298.html
19:55	happy with that ?
20:13	<jammcq> ogra: you rock
20:16	* ogra just tries a pt_BR install of ltsp
20:16	<ogra> i never actually checked the translations ... but now that we support native langs in ltsp-build-client ...
20:18	feisty+1 should have a lot of new translations through rosetta ... i'll focus on localization and ldm for the next release i think
20:18	(as personal goals beyond the postponed edgy ones)
20:24	<Plouj> humm
20:24	how am I gonna run an X server without a video card on the server if it's a virtual machine
20:25	heh
20:25	<ogra> you dont
20:25	<jammcq> you don't need to run an xserver
20:25	<ogra> you just need a desktop installed
20:25	<jammcq> you just need the packages installed
20:25	<Plouj> what do I need to run?
20:25	<ogra> nothing
20:25	<Plouj> ok
20:25	<ogra> it just needs to be there
20:25	<Plouj> on the server itself or in the chroot?
20:26	<ogra> not sure xorg is installable withotu video card though
20:26	<Plouj> well, vmware has a video card, I was wrong
20:26	<ogra> k
20:27	i guess it would fail during the try to configure the card :)
20:27	<jammcq> ogra: the only thing you need from xorg is the xlibs
20:28	that shouldn't require a card
20:28	although.. it totally depends on the packager
20:28	<ogra> jammcq, i'm not sure kde or gnome dont need it
20:28	<jammcq> i'd consider it a bug, if it required an Xserver
20:29	<ogra> they likely build against certain other libe which in turn depend on more libs ...
20:29	<jammcq> who's in charge of xorg for ubuntu these days?
20:29	<ogra> well, if you install x-window-system-core or xorg it will install all xservers ...
20:30	tepsipakki
20:30	<jammcq> hmm, dunno who that is
20:30	<ogra> he's a community guy and just started packagning because he wanted it upgraded
20:30	<Plouj> humm, the client is generating 100% CPU load
20:30	<ogra> he did an impressive amount of work the last weeks
20:30	<Plouj> but all I see is a black screen after entering the user info at the graphical login screen
20:32	<ogra> jammcq, you need an Xsession as well ... xlibs wont provide that
20:32	<jammcq> well, true. but even that shouldn't require an xserver
20:33	<ogra> no, but the package holding it might
20:33	Plouj, the login manager has a session seletion button ...
20:33	*selection
20:33	look if any sessions are listed
20:34	and check ~/.xsession-errors of the user you tried for login
20:37	<Plouj> 6657 lines of kpersonalizer: cannot connect to X server
20:37	heh
20:38	<jammcq> that's prolly kdm trying to launch a local xserver
20:39	<Plouj> humm
20:39	<ogra> apt-get install icewm ...
20:39	<Plouj> it starts like ths:
20:39	http://pastebin.ca/395471
20:40	humm
20:40	<ogra> erm, do you have X forwarding disabled in the ssh config ?
20:40	<jammcq> hmm
20:40	that could cause a problem
20:40	<Plouj> ogra: if I didn't set it up, probably not!
20:40	<ogra> well, its enabled by default
20:41	<jammcq> in ubuntu, but what about debian?
20:41	<ogra> if you didnt disable it it should still be on
20:41	<Plouj> I had to change X11Forwarding no to X11Forwarding yes right now
20:41	<ogra> same package
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20:41	<ogra> oh
20:41	* ogra didnt know colin maintains a diff at all
20:41	<Plouj> I think it's working now
20:42	<jammcq> Plouj: you running a virtual server AND virtual thin client?
20:42	bricode_ has quit IRC
20:42	<Plouj> jammcq: yes :)
20:42	<jammcq> hmm, seems interesting, but not terribly useful
20:42	<Plouj> I did it mostly to learn how to netboot things
20:43	I'm planning on building my own kiosk system
20:43	difference from ltsp is that I don't have a fast network but can run local apps on the clients
20:43	plus, I need to run firefox win32 inside Wine for some plugin compatibility
20:43	<jammcq> oooh, that hurts
20:44	<ogra> hmm, the openssh-server changelog disagrees that there is a difference
20:44	weird
20:44	<Plouj> welp, kde has just loaded
20:44	3.5, eeew
20:44	oh wait, it might be eeew because of the theme that I chose
20:45	<ogra> 0 pacotes atualizados, 224 pacotes novos instalados, 0 a serem removidos e 0 n�o atualizados.
20:45	� preciso fazer o download de 57,9MB de arquivos.
20:45	Depois de desempacotamento, 165MB adicionais de espa�o em disco ser�o usados.
20:45	Obtendo:1 http://de.archive.ubuntu.com feisty/main x11-common 1:7.2-0ubuntu7 [343kB]
20:45	YAY !
20:45	my ltsp speaks portugese
20:46	<jammcq> bom dia, obrigado
20:46	<ogra> :))
20:46	with good translations in feisty+1 we should get a lot less support probs :)
20:46	<jammcq> yeah
20:46	<ogra> it also sets the default keymaps now
20:47	for X and console
20:47	<jammcq> i'm giving a talk in brazil next month. I should prolly mention that people could help out by working on translations
20:47	<ogra> so XKBLayout and friends are really only needed if you want a different lang on the clients than on the server
20:47	<jammcq> which reminds me, Vagrantc is giving a talk at a user group this evening
20:47	hope it's going well for him
20:47	<ogra> which i assume is a rare case
20:49	<Plouj> ltsp is cool
20:49	I wish I could implement it at the library where I work
20:50	except that we spent the money that could have been used to get a beefier network on windows licenses and servers that are utilized 1% 99% of the time
20:50	<jammcq> Plouj: where are you located?
20:51	<Plouj> Canada
20:51	<jammcq> cool
20:56	Plouj: i'm only about 50 miles away from Canada
20:56	i'm a bit north west of Detroit
21:07	ltspbot` has joined #ltsp
21:08	<jammcq> hmm
21:12	<ogra> hmm ?
21:12	<jammcq> the bot is hosted at Scotty's house. I was hoping that ltspbot coming alive meant that scotty was getting ready to pop in
21:12	<ogra> ah
21:13	http://www.ubuntulive.com/ seen that ?
21:14	<jammcq> yeah
21:14	scotty submitted a proposal
21:14	I'll be there, cuz i'm also going to OSCON
21:15	<ogra> we should voluntell eharrison to run a sprint at his house, wasnt he located in portland ?
21:15	<jammcq> oooooh, great idea
21:15	hmm, fantastic idea
21:16	<ogra> 25th to 27th or so ... or 18th to 21st ...
21:16	<jammcq> I'll talk to him about it
21:16	<ogra> heh
21:16	<jammcq> see if that works for him
21:16	<ogra> actually that was a joke ...
21:16	<jammcq> it's a great joke. so good, we should do it
21:16	<ogra> but might really be a good idea since we're all together anyway
21:17	<jammcq> since we'll be there anyway
21:17	<ogra> heh
21:17	oh man ...
21:17	may in spain, june in sweden, july US ....
21:17	<jammcq> august in SanFran
21:17	Faithful has quit IRC
21:17	<jammcq> April in Brazil
21:18	<ogra> what is in august ?
21:18	<jammcq> LinuxWorld
21:18	<ogra> hmm
21:18	right, i missed LinuxTag in berlin :)
21:18	<jammcq> linuxworld is my least favorite of the trips
21:18	<ogra> where i have to hold a boring edubuntu talk ...
21:19	i really should push over all the edu stuff to RichEd and hold ltsp workshops rather :)
21:21	<jammcq> ogra: you forgot June in Winnipeg
21:22	<ogra> i still need to see if that doesnt collide with the sweden thing ...
21:22	<jammcq> ya
21:22	<ogra> sadly i have to be there ...
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21:42	<ogra> jammcq, did you know that dbus supports tcp connections ?
21:42	<jammcq> no way
21:42	<ogra> apparently since a long time
21:42	<jammcq> I think it's in the design, but it's not really been implemented
21:42	<ogra> i just read the manpage of dbus-launch :)
21:43	<jammcq> i think it is "wished" that it supports it, but I don't think it's every been implemented
21:43	<ogra> There are two common reasons for autolaunch. One is ssh to a remote machine. The ideal fix for that would be forwarding of DBUS_SES‐
21:43	SION_BUS_ADDRESS in the same way that DISPLAY is forwarded. In the meantime, you can edit the session.conf config file to have your
21:43	session bus listen on TCP, and manually set DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS, if you like.
21:44	<jammcq> j5 is one of the dbus guys. I talked to him about this several months ago. he said it shouldn't take much to actually finish it
21:44	<ogra> so TCP is supported, but proper ssh tunneing isnt
21:44	<jammcq> you missed the fun discussion here last saturday night
21:45	scotty was trying to do something that only root can do, and he was planning on mucking with sudoers, to allow sudo to do it
21:47	<ogra> argh
21:47	shudder
21:47	shudder more
21:47	<jammcq> we convinced him that dbus was his new best friend
21:47	<ogra> heh
21:47	<jammcq> and about 2 hours later, he had a prototype working
21:48	<ogra> well, i still dont want dbus running on a client
21:48	<jammcq> I think it turned out to be much easier than he expected
21:48	no, this was on the server
21:48	but why not on the client?
21:49	<ogra> it has the potential to break ... i'd want to test that at least for a whole release cycle ...
21:49	i.e. if we decide to use it, it should be switched on the day the archive opens and recieve a lot of testing
21:50	<jammcq> seems like dbus shouldn't care if ssh is involved
21:50	<ogra> no, but it needs ssh proxying
21:50	as the manpage says
21:50	<jammcq> hmm
21:50	<ogra> so we need an ssh fix
21:50	<jammcq> theo deradt will be down in brazil with us, want me to talk to him :)
21:51	<ogra> about ssh ?
21:51	<jammcq> he's the OpenSSH guy
21:51	isn't he?
21:51	<ogra> ah, i only know some other name ... starting with d
21:51	(first name)
21:52	anyway, indeed i'd like you to talk with him but i suspect i know what he'll say :)
21:55	<jammcq> yeah, he's not very open to adding new things
21:56	I should spend some time with dbus/tcp, to see if I can understand how it works, and why a change is needed for ssh
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21:59	<jammcq> GodFather: hey
22:00	<ogra> well, as i said, i know what he'll say :)
22:00	<jammcq> at least if I understand the issues, I can talk to him about it
22:00	<ogra> just pipe it through a socket like ltspfs :)
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22:04	<jammcq> ogra: aren't you getting sleepy yet?
22:04	<ogra> i'm totally sleepy ...
22:05	and tring to fix the very broken code of TCM
22:05	<jammcq> a while back, I was in the habit of staying up until at least 3am every day
22:06	<ogra> thats my usual time ...
22:06	but i dont start working before 11 either ...
22:07	<jammcq> I like to be at the office by 8am, so I can't stay up so late any more
22:07	i'm almost always in bed by midnight
22:09	<ogra> the (dis?)advantage of hving n office
22:09	<jammcq> I did the work-at-home thing for 7 years
22:09	it got old
22:09	<ogra> yeah
22:09	i can imagine
22:10	<jammcq> days turn into nights, weekdays turn into weekends, and you don't even notice. you just keep on working
22:10	<ogra> i start getting the habit to not leave the house anymore for distances below 500km
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22:21	<Ryan__> Hi all. Anybody got time for some help with MueKow?
22:22	<jammcq> Ryan__: whaddya need?
22:22	<Ryan__> Think I've got everything right but cannot log onto thin client
22:23	joebaker has left #ltsp
22:23	<jammcq> Ryan__: what distro?
22:23	<Ryan__> Debian etch
22:23	<jammcq> how did you install it?
22:23	mofo has joined #ltsp
22:23	<jammcq> and... what happens when you try to log in?
22:24	<Ryan__> apt-get install lstp-standalone followed by ltsp-build-client
22:24	<jammcq> k
22:24	<Ryan__> the client boots up fine but it is not the server xdmcp session I was expecting
22:25	<jammcq> it uses LDM by default, which isn't XDMCP
22:25	<mofo> has anyone figured out how to use the tarballs of ltsp5 on other distributions other than ubuntu/debian?
22:25	<jammcq> it's a gui wrapper around SSH
22:25	<Ryan__> hence the need to install openssh as well
22:25	<ogra> mofo, just follow the instructions :)
22:25	Ryan__, right
22:25	<jammcq> Ryan__: yeah, you need openssh-server
22:25	and then you'll need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys
22:26	and... do you have a desktop environment installed on your etch server?
22:26	<mofo> orga: sorry, i did not see the directions before...but now i do, thanks!
22:26	<ogra> :)
22:26	<Ryan__> yep
22:26	<ogra> mofo, else just ask here
22:26	<jammcq> ok, you should be fine after installing ssh
22:26	and if you REALLY want xdmcp, it's not hard
22:27	<mofo> so the NIS requirement for local apps is not prevelent in ltsp 5?
22:27	<ogra> well, depends :)
22:27	its hard to lose some features for most people :)
22:27	<Ryan__> Don't particularly, but I do want to set users up on the server and allow them to log onto the client
22:27	<ogra> like localdev support or sound
22:28	<Ryan__> Do I need to chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/ to do that?
22:28	<ogra> nope
22:28	<jammcq> Ryan__: typically, they just use the client as a terminal to get to the server, where the session runs
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22:28	<ogra> just run ltsp-update-sshkeys afer you installed openssh-server and you are set
22:29	<Ryan__> K, I'll try a TC reboot now. Thanks for your help :-)
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22:38	<Ryan__> jammcq: Much the same. The client boots to a login screen with a rather ugly fawny brown look, a shutdown switch icon bottom left and "ltsp//" bottom right. I am the only user on the server and I cannot log in to the client.
22:39	<jammcq> what happens when you try?
22:39	<Ryan__> looks like the xserver resets on the client
22:39	<jammcq> did you run ltsp-update-sshkeys ?
22:39	<Ryan__> like I've just hit CTRL + ALT + Backspace
22:40	yup
22:40	<jammcq> on your server, look in your homedir for .xession-errors
22:40	<Ryan__> should I get some output when I run that
22:40	<jammcq> no output
22:40	<Ryan__> righto
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22:41	<Ryan__> Window manager warning: Failed to read saved session file /home/rboyes/.metacity/sessions/default0.ms: Failed to open file '/home/rboyes/.metacity/sessions/$** Message: Not starting remote desktop server
22:41	<jammcq> hmm
22:42	ah, check your /etc/ssh/sshd_config file, make sure X11Forwarding is turned on
22:42	<Ryan__> doh
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22:46	<bgomes> god night
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23:00	<Ryan__> jammcq: X11Forwarding was OK. just setup a new user and logged tried logging in with that one. Same thing, with the line in .xsession-errors about failing to open /home/<user>/.metacity/sessions/default0.ms and not starting remote desktop server.
23:00	<jammcq> hmm
23:01	vagrantc is the etch guy around here, but he's not online at the moment. I expect he'll pop in soon, he's Mt.Std time
23:01	and i'm heading to bed in just a minute
23:02	<Ryan__> No problems. Thanks for your help.
23:02	<ogra> 14067 root 25 0 13700 2648 1948 R 98.1 0.3 2:01.46 gdm
23:02	whee
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23:02	<ogra> gdm freaking out isnt a good thing i guess
23:03	<jammcq> 98.1% of cpu ?
23:03	<ogra> yup
23:03	seems xnest is broken ...
23:03	(it was a gdmflexiserver)
23:03	oh sh*t the birds start singing
23:04	and i still have no proof that the code i changed works :/
23:04	<jammcq> ok, i'm heading to bed. g'night all
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23:06	<ogra> night jammcq
23:06	or morning rather from here :)
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23:55	<IRCzito> j #kernel
23:56	I have some PC that functions with ltsp-4.1, but that in ltsp-4.2 and ltsp-5 they do not complete boot, they present the following error: NETDEV WATCHDOG : eth0 : trasmit time out
23:57	somebody can help me?