IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 24 March 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:23 | <talntid> on a default LTSP install under ubuntu, its saying that there is no window manager, no Xsessions...
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| 00:23 | ideas?
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| 00:23 | LTSP5
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| 00:23 | i get a graphical login page, then it goes black, and bumps me back out to the graphial login
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| 00:27 | <johnny> haven't seen that
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| 00:28 | <talntid> hrm
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| 00:28 | <johnny> and ltsp-build-client completed with no errors?
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| 00:29 | <talntid> yes
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| 00:30 | <johnny> i guess you should check launchpad for bugs
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| 00:32 | <talntid> hrm :\
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| 00:32 | http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net/msg32771.html
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| 00:32 | same issue that guy has
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| 01:27 | <talntid> .. does a desktop need to be running on the server to for LTSP to work?
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| 05:54 | <|Paradox|> |03/23/08|09:55:41PM| <jammcq> you need a ltsp-5 guy to answer that. not sure if there's any around right now <-----you've stopped being the main LTSP programmer etc.?
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| 05:55 | |03/24/08|02:26:39AM| <talntid> .. does a desktop need to be running on the server to for LTSP to work? <----NO unless things have changed with LTSP5 my old LTSP server was completely text and headless to boot.
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| 05:56 | They need to be available for the clients, tho.
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| 09:06 | <cliebow_> arrgh..my applications and System are gone..
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| 09:32 | <jammcq> hey kidz
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| 09:32 | <laga> hey jammcq
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| 09:32 | <cyberorg> hi jammcq
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| 09:35 | <jammcq> hey laga and cyberorg
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| 09:35 | cyberorg: i'm gonna be talking about ltsp-5 in brazil mid-april
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| 09:35 | I wanna load up a opensuse server before them
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| 09:35 | and i'm certain that I'll need some help
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| 09:36 | <cyberorg> jammcq, i saw that you wanted to try out the work we are doing :) use this http://dev.compiz-fusion.org/~cyberorg/2008/03/19/kiwi-ltsp-prebuilt-images/
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| 09:36 | <jammcq> I prolly won't get to it until about Aprl 6th
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| 09:36 | <cyberorg> you might be able to use those on any rpm distro :)
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| 09:37 | <jammcq> I'll actually load up a opensuse server
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| 09:37 | I want the full experience
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| 09:37 | <cyberorg> i don't have any TC hardware to test, but i heard the it does not boot up ltsp 150 hardware that you have
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| 09:38 | <jammcq> I also have a T-1220
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| 09:38 | <cyberorg> do you have anyone who can test all your hardwares and see which ones boot properly?
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| 09:38 | <jammcq> or T-1225
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| 09:38 | something like that
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| 09:38 | <cyberorg> if it doesn't work with most hardware, we might have to dig deeper in our kernel/initrd
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| 09:39 | <warren> excellent, vagrant's rewrite of the screen scripts is working great.
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| 09:39 | tested xdmcp and ldm (with and without LDM_DIRECTX)
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| 09:42 | <jammcq> testing the hardware isn't the problem. getting someone to load up the various distros and do full testing is much harder
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| 09:42 | <cyberorg> jammcq, virtualbox :)
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| 09:44 | <cyberorg> let me see if i can get virtualbox image of opensuse ltsp server
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| 09:45 | <jammcq> don't rush
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| 09:45 | i'm not even sure who'll do that work
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| 09:46 | <cyberorg> of course not hurrying, but virtual image would be good anyway for anyone who wants to test real quick
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| 09:57 | <warren> cyberorg, I think jammcq was talking about testing the actual client models
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| 09:58 | <cyberorg> warren, yup, but setting up different distros is a pain too :)
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| 09:59 | warren, you can test the prebuilt image on fedora if you want to get the feel of how it is implemented by us
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| 09:59 | * warren does not care at all. | |
| 09:59 | <laga> play nice, kids
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| 10:00 | <cyberorg> having kubuntu in vmware here helped a lot, haven't asked any "how is this done" questions here
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| 10:02 | <warren> I've been asking "how it is done" mainly because I'm interested in improving how it is done in a common way.
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| 10:08 | <gvy> halo
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| 10:09 | <gvy> jammcq, sbalneav, cyberorg, warren: need an advice on merge policy
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| 10:09 | cliebow_, hi
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| 10:09 | <cyberorg> hi gvy
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| 10:09 | <gvy> currently we've got:
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| 10:09 | <cliebow_> gvy:!!!
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| 10:09 | <gvy> alt-specific plugins (which can rest in a dir and not bother anyone)
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| 10:09 | <warren> who is gvy?
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| 10:10 | <gvy> warren, Michael Shigorin // pro-ALT // anti-RH :)
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| 10:10 | bothering type, must admit
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| 10:10 | <warren> gvy, is it really necessary for you to actively act like such an ass?
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| 10:10 | <gvy> warren, no
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| 10:10 | so,
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| 10:10 | 1) alt-specific plugins (which can rest in a dir and not bother anyone)
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| 10:10 | <warren> gvy, seriously, your behavior on the list makes me want to just utterly ignore you.
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| 10:10 | <gvy> 2) semi-specific things like init scripts
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| 10:10 | <warren> gvy, please tone it down if you want people to respect what you say.
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| 10:10 | <gvy> warren, that helps a lot in fact
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| 10:11 | thanks
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| 10:11 | <warren> gvy, have you published your bzr tree? I can help to review it.
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| 10:13 | <gvy> 3) a patch for common part which has apparently specific pieces needed for e.g. plugins -- and enough generic cleanups as well
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| 10:13 | (this seems like fork worst of all to me)
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| 10:13 | warren, a minute :)
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| 10:13 | some of cleanups fix code that was, er, questionable
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| 10:13 | <warren> gvy, plugins for ltsp-build-client will likely go in easily, I'll review the conflicting parts to see if how it can be merged.
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| 10:13 | <gvy> so currently i think what should we do:
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| 10:14 | <warren> gvy, is your bzr repo split into logical checkins? It is a huge pain to review one giant diff
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| 10:14 | gvy, we can merge in the non-conflicting parts and easy merges first just to shrink the diff size, makes it easier to understand the remaining diff.
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| 10:15 | <gvy> - either propose plugins and the rest of specific stuff that doesn't conflict with anything by design, and then incrementally add the "specific" pieces of the common base patch (rewritten to be generic) until plugins would work again
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| 10:15 | - or propose everything which *will* cause some havoc on generic part
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| 10:15 | so far i'd rather do first case
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| 10:16 | <warren> gvy, I'm not willing to do the conflict-adaptation merge work for you, and I will not dig into understanding a giant diff with many unrelated changes, but I am willing to meet you half-way.
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| 10:16 | <gvy> but there can be other merge experience :)
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| 10:16 | warren, now "a minute" has passed, will try to answer...
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| 10:16 | 1) no bzr repo atm (explanation follows)
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| 10:17 | 2) currently, yes, a 20k patch along with standalone stuff
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| 10:17 | 3) i understand noone's going to do my job for me, it would be weird :)
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| 10:17 | on bzr:
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| 10:17 | my colleague who's been doing the work still prefers SCMs r/o
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| 10:17 | strange but...
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| 10:18 | i'd rather use git as that integrates with alt's build system
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| 10:18 | <warren> gvy, you will need to be able to hand us bzr checkins if you want to merge back with upstream
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| 10:18 | <gvy> still i understand that if upstream uses bzr then it's reasonable to offer things in bzr
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| 10:18 | yup
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| 10:20 | warren, cyberorg, could you please tell whether (rest aside) it is better to add non-working specific stuff and then add fixes to generic part so it works for our specifics,
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| 10:20 | or better fix generics then add (working at that stage) specifics?
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| 10:20 | <warren> gvy, I recommend merging in the non-conflicting stuff first, shrink the total diff size.
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| 10:20 | <gvy> warren, ok
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| 10:21 | <warren> gvy, it isn't clear what you mean by generic vs. specific because we haven't seen your code
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| 10:21 | <cyberorg> gvy, why do you assume it is non-working?
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| 10:21 | <warren> gvy, where is your diff? I'll push the obviously non-conflicting part now
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| 10:21 | <gvy> warren, is bzr preferable on launchpad or anywhere? (i don't know yet whether bzr repo can be just rsynced to a webserver to be useful)
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| 10:21 | <warren> gvy, anywhere is fine
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| 10:23 | looks like I can use bzr commit --author to use your name instead of mine
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| 10:23 | I'll commit the obviously non-conflicting pieces first
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| 10:23 | and push them upstream
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| 10:24 | gvy, I'm doing this just because I'm trying to build a true upstream. But if you continue being an ass I will completely ignore you. This is your only warning.
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| 10:24 | <mnemoc> warren: hi, did you have time to work on mount -o nbd ?
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| 10:24 | <warren> mnemoc, with my time left before Fedora 9 it appears that I have to give up on it for now.
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| 10:24 | <mnemoc> ic :(
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| 10:25 | <gvy> warren, well i can do a fork with less effort now :) think you understand that in the long run it's not for the better for any of us
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| 10:25 | <warren> mnemoc, too many other things to fix before Fedora 9... I can at least have it working on fedora 9 with NFS.
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| 10:25 | gvy, please stop acting arrogant and insulting on the list and everyone will be better able to cooperate.
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| 10:25 | <gvy> warren, hey, i know what "a troll" is
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| 10:26 | and poisonous one as well
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| 10:26 | <warren> that word has been mentioned here recently..
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| 10:26 | <gvy> doesn't help anyone of course, hence the deal
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| 10:29 | <cyberorg> warren, would you be committing these patches as well? http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=b317ae5c0803160344la9ee27dx7fa67588f8076608%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=ltsp-developer
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| 10:29 | http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=b317ae5c0803080631k35bb8665ybd53009539a95181%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=ltsp-developer
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| 10:30 | <warren> cyberorg, I suppose I can, although it seemed so trivial
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| 10:30 | <cyberorg> warren, well we can get started with trivial first :)
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| 10:30 | <gvy> warren, thanks for advice, i'm off to look closer at current diff -- seems we want it spilt like this:
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| 10:31 | - minimal fixes to get our specifics to work
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| 10:31 | <warren> cyberorg, you want the author to read CyberOrg <jigish.gohil@gmail.com>?
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| 10:31 | <gvy> - reasonable fixes to generic scripts
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| 10:31 | - questionable/debatable/changeable fixes to generics
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| 10:31 | <warren> gvy, how long ago did you bzr pull from ltsp-trunk?
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| 10:31 | <cyberorg> first one, the second one is captain_magnus <magnus.boman@gmail.com>
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| 10:32 | <gvy> r576
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| 10:32 | warren, r576
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| 10:32 | <warren> gvy, ouch. we're at 672 now
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| 10:32 | gvy, might want to merge your stuff with 672 and retest/refix everything first. A LOT of things have changed.
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| 10:33 | <gvy> ouch
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| 10:33 | warren, could you lend me current repo address then?
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| 10:33 | <warren> gvy, Debian, Fedora and Gentoo have been keeping up constantly testing as things change in ltsp-trunk
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| 10:33 | <gvy> seems like led@ has stuck where 576 was
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| 10:34 | <warren> gvy, https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk
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| 10:34 | <gvy> probably after repo move or sorts...
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| 10:34 | thanks
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| 10:34 | <warren> heh, vagrant pushed more
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| 10:34 | 674 now
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| 10:36 | gvy, resyncing with ltsp-trunk might give you a good opportunity to split out your changes into individual commits
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| 10:37 | gvy, you will also want to rsync ldm-trunk and ltspfs-trunk as changes have happened there as well
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| 10:37 | <gvy> warren, thanks
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| 10:38 | <warren> - VENDOR=$(lsb_release -i -s)
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| 10:38 | + VENDOR=$(lsb_release -i -s | tr " " "_")
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| 10:38 | why?
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| 10:38 | cyberorg, ?
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| 10:41 | <cyberorg> warren, because it is SUSE LINUX
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| 10:41 | <warren> this wont break other distros?
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| 10:41 | <cyberorg> no, none have space in their names
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| 10:41 | <warren> I mean, Fedora doesn't use lsb_release at all
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| 10:41 | ok
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| 10:41 | <laga> heh. i liked that answer. "hey, why do you need that weird hack" -" because it is SUSE LINUX"
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| 10:41 | <mnemoc> ROTFL
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| 10:43 | <cyberorg> warren, so how does ltsp-build-client find out which plugin to use on fedora?
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| 10:43 | <warren> cyberorg, happens at RPM build time
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| 10:43 | cyberorg, I am thinking to generalize that without a k12 specific name...
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| 10:44 | <gvy> btw not quoting variables is one of the most common troubles of ltsp scripts
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| 10:44 | <cyberorg> warren, it wont work for someone that pulls brz
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| 10:44 | <warren> gvy, causing actual failures?
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| 10:44 | gvy, quoting variables is not always needed
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| 10:44 | <gvy> well, too
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| 10:45 | warren, nice habit though
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| 10:45 | cheaper than figuring out what changed where causing what to break
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| 10:45 | <warren> gvy, I agree, but please split code cleanups into a separate patch
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| 10:45 | * gvy sometimes writes smth like VAR="/etc/config"; [ -s "$VAR" ] ... | |
| 10:45 | <warren> cyberorg, see my spec file?
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| 10:46 | <gvy> warren, yup, hence the question
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| 10:46 | <warren> gvy, I've been doing a lot of cleanups since you forked
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| 10:46 | <cyberorg> warren, yup i have
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| 10:46 | <warren> gvy, more cleanups are welcomed, however we need separate patches
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| 10:46 | cyberorg, does suse have /etc/sysconfig?
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| 10:47 | <cyberorg> warren, yes
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| 10:47 | <warren> cyberorg, I'm thinking to rename k12_dist to ltspdist. Then rpmbuild writes to /etc/sysconfig/ltspdist.
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| 10:47 | cyberorg, so it sets up everything that would normally come from lsb_release
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| 10:48 | * warren does that now. | |
| 10:48 | <cyberorg> ok, we can put that up too
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| 10:48 | <warren> i'll push my example then you can adapt yours
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| 10:48 | <cyberorg> k
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| 10:49 | i have all the variables that i need in /etc/sysconfig/kiwi-ltsp
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| 10:51 | <warren> best keep that separate from /etc/sysconfig/ltspdist
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| 10:51 | because I'm not using your name =)
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| 10:51 | <cyberorg> yeah, of course, that was only a stop gap arrangement till there was something upstream
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| 10:52 | <warren> it isn't that kind of options though
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| 10:52 | see server/configs/k12linux/k12_dist.template
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| 10:52 | <cyberorg> there is a student who would be working on GUI if he gets select for GSoC so something that everyone can use is required
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| 10:52 | <warren> cyberorg, I'm not prepared to mentor such a student, the underlying options are undergoing heavy change
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| 10:53 | <cyberorg> i would be doing that, he was fedora user so i pointed him to you
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| 10:53 | <warren> cyberorg, /etc/sysconfig/ltspdist would *only* hardcode the info that ltsp-build-client gets from lsb_release
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| 10:53 | cyberorg, hmm
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| 10:53 | cyberorg, ok I'll talk with him
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| 10:53 | <cyberorg> he posted on your blog already
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| 10:54 | <warren> I'm so overloaded by Fedora 9 requirements I can't hand hold and tell him what to do now =(
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| 10:54 | <cyberorg> https://forgesvn1.novell.com/viewsvn/kiwi-ltsp/trunk/kiwi-ltsp/ltsp/suse-11.0/kiwi-ltsp?revision=92&view=markup
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| 10:54 | this is what we've got
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| 10:59 | <warren> cyberorg, "SUSE_LINUX" is a bit ugly of a name wouldn't you agree?
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| 10:59 | <cyberorg> warren, yes it is, they need to change that to openSUSE
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| 11:00 | <cyberorg> but that is what lsb_release says, and i don't really mind it too much to file a bug for that
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| 11:03 | <warren> if you do it like the way I do, you can call your directory in the source tree anything
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| 11:04 | <vagrantc> warren: basically, you're desiring to drop any sort of distro-independent tool to figure out distro-specific information
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| 11:04 | <warren> cyberorg, I'm not merging your patch because you'll likely have something better after you adapt to this
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| 11:04 | <cyberorg> warren, if ltsp-build-client reads /etc/sysconfig/ltspdist i am fine, call it openSUSE
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| 11:04 | i can do away with lsb_release too
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| 11:05 | <warren> vagrantc, in the specific case of lsb_release, I personally don't want to depend on it because my plugins work on Fedora, CentOS, RHEL and other clones just fine.
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| 11:05 | brb lunch
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| 11:05 | <vagrantc> alright.
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| 11:05 | <warren> cyberorg, didn't check it in yet, need to review it
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| 11:05 | * vagrantc doesn't like /etc/sysconfig/* | |
| 11:06 | <vagrantc> why not name it a distro-independent file in /etc/ltsp ?
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| 11:12 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, that is fine too
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| 11:12 | we already put /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf there
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| 11:14 | <gvy> r675. :)
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| 11:14 | now reading tutorial to put it up
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| 11:14 | vagrantc, hi
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| 11:17 | <vagrantc> gvy: hey.
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| 11:17 | gvy: altlinux patches, i'm guessing?
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| 11:17 | <gvy> another stupid question: is any bzr branch a standalone repo? (git repo han hold load of branches)
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| 11:17 | <gvy> vagrantc, yup -- plugins first
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| 11:18 | <vagrantc> gvy: each branch is a single repository, yes.
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| 11:18 | <gvy> *ouch*
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| 11:18 | so when you do a few topic branches you end up with multiple repos?
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| 11:19 | (just to make things clear to plan how to work with them)
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| 11:19 | <gvy> e.g. we now mess with ltsp-trunk; guess the branches might be something like ltsp-trunk, or altsp, or ltsp-trunk_altsp_plugins?
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| 11:20 | (if the stages would be e.g. plugins, initscripts, fixes, cleanups)
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| 11:20 | <vagrantc> typical work flow would be, work on a feature in a separate branch and when it's ready, merge into ltsp-trunk
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| 11:20 | <gvy> or just do a branch and sequentially commit "plugins", "initscripts" et al?
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| 11:20 | vagrantc, thanks
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| 11:21 | <vagrantc> gvy: i highly recommend making use of "bzr init-repo"
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| 11:21 | gvy: which allows you to store revisions in a common location (so that each branch doesn't duplicate a copy of all revisions)
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| 11:22 | <gvy> vagrantc, thanks, longjmp manpage :)
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| 11:22 | <vagrantc> gvy: i generally find the bzr FOO -h or bzr help FOO more useful ...
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| 11:25 | <gvy> mama mia
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| 11:26 | reading man bzr near init-repo seems like eveidence of either spaghetti design or broken architecture and *lots* of band aid over it...
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| 11:27 | * vagrantc would rather work on ltsp than discuss the merits of any given vcs | |
| 11:27 | <gvy> vagrantc, er, should init-repo be done in existing repo or clean dir?
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| 11:27 | <vagrantc> gvy: bzr init-repo SOMEDIR
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| 11:28 | gvy: cd SOMEDIR
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| 11:28 | gvy: bzr get URL://to/some/branch
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| 11:28 | gvy: bzr get URL://to/some/other/branchfoo
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| 11:28 | <gvy> vagrantc, thanks!
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| 11:28 | <vagrantc> gvy: anything checked out in any subdirectory of SOMEDIR will share revisions
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| 11:30 | * gvy tries to remember this as "external journal" | |
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| 11:33 | <vagrantc> gvy: in the original bazaar, they were called "revision libraries"
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| 11:39 | <gvy> vagrantc, is it reasonable to init-repo ltsp and then get ltsp-trunk, ldm-trunk, etc there, or should repo contain only branches of the same project?
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| 11:39 | i guess init-repo ltsp-trunk
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| 11:39 | hm, but then ~ltsp-upstream/ltsp is probably a repo, no?
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| 11:49 | <vagrantc> gvy: ltsp and ldm actually share a lot of revision history, as there were originally a single project.
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| 11:49 | gvy: it doesn't matter what you call it locally.
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| 11:49 | <gvy> vagrantc, already done common "ltsp" repo, thx
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| 11:49 | <vagrantc> gvy: just as long as you don't confuse your self.
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| 11:50 | <gvy> vagrantc, well there may be naming "conventions" so there's yes, less confusion :)
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| 11:50 | <vagrantc> ltspfs probably makes sense to keep in it's own branch
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| 11:50 | as it's a very small project and doesn't share history with the others ...
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| 11:50 | <gvy> <noted>
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| 11:51 | <vagrantc> gvy: i.e. i have ... bzr init-repo ~/src/ltsp ... under that i have ~/src/ltsp/ltsp-trunk ~/src/ltsp/ldm/ldm-trunk ... and bzr init-repo ~/src/ltsp/ltspfs ... ~/src/ltsp/ltspfs/ltspfs-trunk ...
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| 12:22 | <gvy> warren, vagrantc, pushing ltsp repo with local r675 in ltsp-altlinux carrying l-b-c plugins (must be a painless merge -- a separate dir)
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| 12:22 | the next question is for client/initscripts/
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| 12:23 | there are some custom ones which should probably be separate atm (probably reworked later, better would look yourself)
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| 12:23 | is it reasonable to create ALTLinux/ alongside with RPM/ there as these are _currently_ specific?
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| 12:23 | <warren> gvy, I'll take a look
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| 12:23 | gvy, where did you push your repo?
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| 12:24 | <gvy> warren, pushing (outbound jam)
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| 12:28 | <warren> cyberorg, ok pushed
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| 12:28 | cyberorg, you need to write your own ltspdist.template file
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| 12:28 | <gvy> warren, rsync copy of a repo is ok? (tutorials seem to suggest so)
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| 12:29 | <warren> gvy, I think so
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| 12:34 | gvy, let me know when you have something uploaded
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| 12:36 | <gvy> warren, already :)
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| 12:37 | warren, will this do? http://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/people/led/bzr/ltsp/ltsp-altlinux/ (or rsync://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/people/led/bzr/ltsp/ltsp-altlinux/)
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| 12:39 | <vagrantc> gvy: manually rsyncing won't work unless you sync the bzr dir from the init-repo branch as well.
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| 12:39 | <gvy> vagrantc, http://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/people/led/bzr/ltsp/ is rsynced repo
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| 12:40 | <vagrantc> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "http://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/people/led/bzr/ltsp/.bzr/branch/".
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| 12:41 | <gvy> vagrantc, hm.
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| 12:41 | <vagrantc> gvy: use the tools within bzr to handle the syncing, unless you really want to learn about bzr internals.
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| 12:41 | <gvy> vagrantc, ok
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| 12:41 | does bzr push do ssh? (host:/path/to/repo)
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| 12:42 | <vagrantc> gvy: bzr push sftp:/// is one of the most reliable, albiet slow ways of doing it.
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| 12:42 | gvy: yeah, sftp uses ssh's sftp hooks
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| 12:42 | * gvy doesn't usually turn sftp on... | |
| 12:42 | <gvy> ok, will try
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| 12:43 | <vagrantc> well, sftp is just an extension to ssh ... didn't know it required any special enabling or disabling.
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| 12:43 | it definitely goes through port 22, using ssh ...
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| 12:45 | <gvy> vagrantc, well it can be disabled in sshd_config (in alt, by default is)... yes, over ssh
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| 12:45 | * vagrantc can't see any advantage of disabling sftp if you're giving people shell access | |
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| 12:46 | <warren> vagrantc, +1
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| 12:48 | <gvy> vagrantc, ssh != shell
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| 12:48 | you can give e.g. rsync-only access, or cvs-only :)
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| 12:48 | <vagrantc> true enough
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| 12:49 | gvy: in the bzrtools plugins, there's an rspush which uses rsync ... don't know if it handles shared repositories properly, but i would guess so.,
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| 12:51 | <vagrantc> gvy: although if you tarball up or rsync the whole directory structure, everything should work... been so long since i've tried any of that, though.
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| 12:52 | <gvy> guess
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| 12:52 | * gvy doesn't rsync git repos as well, even if those tend to just work then | |
| 12:57 | <gvy> vagrantc, hm, http://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/people/led/bzr/ltsp/ltsp-altlinux/ done with bzr push sftp:// seems "not a branch" again
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| 12:58 | ah.
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| 12:58 | mistyped.
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| 12:58 | seems like branch. :)
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| 13:01 | <vagrantc> having troubles actually getting it ... very slow connection
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| 13:34 | <gvy> warren, vagrantc, thanks for tips&advice, going home, continuing tomorrow
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| 13:34 | <warren> vagrantc, you going to review his stuff?
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| 13:35 | <vagrantc> warren: it's all ALTLinux specific plugins...
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| 13:37 | gvy: led, gvy ... michael shingori ...
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| 13:38 | <warren> vagrantc, I told him I will promptly ignore him if he acts like an ass on the list again, and this is his only warning.
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| 13:38 | <vagrantc> heh.
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| 13:40 | <cyberorg> warren i'd go with lsb_release for now, i like auto detection more than having to put it in a config file, just commit the suse plugin, i'll work on adding more to it
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| 13:40 | <vagrantc> warren: yeah, i'm not exactly pleased at the situation under which we've recieved the altlinux patches ...
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| 13:40 | <warren> cyberorg, oh, ok.
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| 13:41 | vagrantc, I told him he has to behave a lot better if he's going to get upstream cooperation, and he did go as far as calling himself a troll.
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| 13:41 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, i hope ogra just has a small vacation and start on ltsp again
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| 13:41 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: me too.
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| 13:41 | <dberkholz> me 3
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| 13:41 | <vagrantc> warren: thanks for that.
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| 13:43 | <warren> taking me FOREVER to pull altlinux's bzr repo
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| 13:43 | <cyberorg> warren, the second patch from captain_magnus was for ldm
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| 13:43 | <warren> might be faster to walk to Russia and get it
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| 13:44 | <vagrantc> as far as reviewing the patches, seems like there's nothing really to review. it's all in the ALTLinux plugin dir, so can't really hurt anyone else.
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| 13:44 | <warren> vagrantc, that's only the first step
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| 13:44 | vagrantc, I told him to submit the non-conflicting parts first
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| 13:44 | vagrantc, in order to shrink the diff
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| 13:44 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 13:44 | warren: well, we can merge one revision at a time.
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| 13:45 | <warren> vagrantc, next comes things that touch other parts, I told him to split it out into individual patches for review.
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| 13:45 | <vagrantc> warren: definitely.
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| 13:45 | <warren> vagrantc, they currently aren't one revision at a time though, he has a giant 20k patch
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| 13:45 | vagrantc, he was previously forked at 576, so might take some work
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| 13:45 | <vagrantc> warren: i haven't seen any of the other stuff, just the plugins
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| 13:46 | <warren> vagrantc, yeah
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| 13:46 | <vagrantc> and while the plugins are one huge patch, it's one huge patch that's easy to review.
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| 13:46 | unless there's some other distro out there calling themselves ALTLinux
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| 13:47 | basically, the plugins look mergeable, but i see no reason to merge them at this moment.
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| 13:51 | <dberkholz> he didn't check stuff into his own bzr repo a bit at a time? that's annoying
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| 13:52 | <cyberorg> ltsp-build-client runs everything in common and then run stuff in the distro folder?
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| 13:52 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: no
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| 13:53 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, only the distro?
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| 13:53 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: it looks at files in both directories and then runs them in order based on filename
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| 13:53 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, what if i dont want anything common to run?
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| 13:54 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: i.e. with the distro taking priority ... i.e. DISTRO/001-foo runs *instead* of common/001-foo
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| 13:54 | <dberkholz> you touch empty files for each file in common you don't want to run
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| 13:54 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: then put empty files with the same filenames
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| 13:54 | <cyberorg> ah ok, thanks
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| 13:55 | <vagrantc> even better than empty files would be files with comments explaining why you don't want them.
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| 13:56 | if enough distros override a specific plugin in common, we'll obviously have to reconsider where it belongs at some point
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| 13:56 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, yeah, would make more sense
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| 13:57 | is there a list of <options> ltsp-build-client take? --extra-help doesn't list them
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| 13:57 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: almost all of the commandline options are implemented as plugins
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| 13:57 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, i mean the list of $MODE available
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| 13:58 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: ah.
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| 13:58 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, i am trying to convert this in plugins ftp://forgeftp.novell.com/kiwi-ltsp/kiwi-ltsp-diagram.png
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| 13:59 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: look at the load_plugins function in ltsp-build-client, and where it's called
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| 14:00 | <cyberorg> load_plugins 'commandline' - what would be commandline?
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| 14:00 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: looks like commandline configure before-install install after-install finalization
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| 14:00 | cyberorg: yes.
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| 14:00 | <cyberorg> just these many?
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| 14:01 | you've also got configure)
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| 14:01 | <vagrantc> i think that's it
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| 14:01 | <cyberorg> Debian/000-basic-configuration
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| 14:01 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: and i listed configure above
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| 14:01 | <cyberorg> ah, sorry missed that
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| 14:02 | i would be able to whip those up real quick
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| 14:12 | what does EXCLUDE do?
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| 14:12 | never mind
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| 14:12 | <vagrantc> in debian, it excludes packages from the base file
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| 14:12 | er, base install
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| 14:13 | <warren> cyberorg, I install all packages in one go, so I don't use that.
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| 14:13 | I also don't use the early/late stuff
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| 14:14 | <vagrantc> right
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| 14:14 | <cyberorg> we have a list of packages and list of packages/files to delete in xml file(like ks)
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| 14:16 | <vagrantc> heh.
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| 14:16 | just found a stupid mistake in screen-x-common
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| 14:17 | <warren> vagrantc, oh?
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| 14:18 | <vagrantc> nothing that would actually break anything.
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| 14:18 | <warren> ok
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| 14:18 | <vagrantc> pushed a fix already
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| 14:18 | just didn't take advantage of my simple "source ltsp_config fewer times" stuff
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| 14:19 | well, actually might have been an issue, but fixed now
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| 14:19 | :)
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| 14:25 | <warren> I made a build prior to it
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| 14:25 | I should pull and build again?
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| 14:25 | it *seems* to work before
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| 14:28 | <cyberorg> what is difference between 010-set-chroot and 010-set-base?
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| 14:31 | <vagrantc> warren: i think it probably just sourced ltsp_config one more time than it needs to, but there may be unusual corner cases in which it wouldn't source ltsp_config at all
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| 14:32 | i think i've gotten it down to sourcing ltsp_config twice rather than 4 or maybe 5 times ...
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| 14:32 | at least on debian system
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| 14:32 | s
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| 14:37 | <ltsppbot> Someone pasted "elegant way of cleaning $ROOT" (8 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/483
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| 14:37 | <cyberorg> if [ -d $ROOT ] ; then is handled more gracefully here don't you think?
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| 14:38 | that is for common/020-rootpath
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| 14:38 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: but what if that's actively in use already?
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| 14:39 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, that is why mv, so it can be undone
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| 14:39 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: yes, but what if it's ACTIVELY using it
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| 14:40 | i.e. freezing someone's terminal because the root filesystem was yanked out from under them
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| 14:40 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, it would be foolish of someone to run ltsp-build-client on a running server, but it is possible
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| 14:41 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: the other way of doing it is to install to a new location ...
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| 14:41 | that sounds more safe to me.
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| 14:42 | although i think it still might be better to just exit out.
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| 14:42 | <cyberorg> or this already exist, do you want to continue? yes/no "type yes to continue"
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| 14:43 | <vagrantc> i'd rather just error out, i think.
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| 14:44 | <cyberorg> ok, will visit that later :)
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| 14:47 | <vagrantc> what's the real difference between asking to proceed and erroring out (ideally with a useful error message) and having them re-run the command?
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| 14:55 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, extra time that requires manually moving the ROOT if we really want/is safe to proceed
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| 14:56 | <dberkholz> oh that reminds me
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| 14:56 | darn, johnny's not here
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| 14:56 | wanted to talk about resume support in ltsp-build-client
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| 14:57 | <vagrantc> dberkholz: resuming the build?
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| 14:57 | <dberkholz> vagrantc: yeah.
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| 14:57 | <dberkholz> occasionally it can fail for various reasons, and it's annoying to start from scratch
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| 14:57 | <vagrantc> i sure like binary distributions :)
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| 14:57 | <dberkholz> even in binary
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| 14:57 | if you're installing 500 packages, it takes a while
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| 14:57 | <vagrantc> indeed.
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| 14:58 | <dberkholz> when package 440 fails because you need to increase the size of your lvm partition, it sucks
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| 14:58 | <vagrantc> hmmm....
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| 14:58 | we could add hooks to on_exit somehow ...
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| 14:59 | <dberkholz> i was thinking of some kind of checkpointing
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| 14:59 | does on_exit get called on trapped signals too?
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| 14:59 | <vagrantc> dberkholz: yeah.
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| 14:59 | well ... hmmm.
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| 14:59 | <dberkholz> so that would work for pretty much anything but a server crash
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| 15:00 | <vagrantc> i'm not sure i really understand trapping ... but we configure it with a trap to ensure it runs whenever it fails.
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| 15:00 | <dberkholz> how about when i ctrl-c ?
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| 15:00 | <vagrantc> yeah
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| 15:00 | i think
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| 15:04 | <dberkholz> vagrantc: hmm, google says yes for bash, no for zsh
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| 15:04 | since it always uses bash, should work
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| 15:10 | <cyberorg> proper suse plugin is on the ML :)
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| 15:11 | wasn't as difficult as i imagined it to be
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| 15:15 | <Pascal_1> hrllo
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| 15:15 | hello
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| 15:16 | bonsoir !
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| 15:51 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: i think your --config plugin will get overriden by the ltsp-build-client's handling of that option.
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| 15:54 | cyberorg: regarding chroot-tagging ... there's some rationale behind *not* having it distributed in the package, as we wanted a way to detect installing the package on a non-ltsp environment...
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| 15:55 | cyberorg: you probably don't need to duplicate set-dist, but rather just set SUSE_VERSION based on the common DIST variable.
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| 15:58 | cyberorg: why do you set a default root password ? shouldn't generally be a need for a root password at all, and could be a big security risk.
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| 16:01 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: nice to see more distro plugin dirs :)
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| 16:51 | <warren> vagrantc, I realize it was a little early to add the one plugin from cyberorg to trunk, but I think this creates some psychological encouragement for more upstreaming.
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| 16:59 | <warren> hmm
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| 16:59 | is X supposed to restart if you have the wrong password in ldm?
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| 17:06 | <vagrantc> warren: agreed on the encouragement bit
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| 17:06 | warren: well, that's the way it behaves. gadi had patches to change that, but they were comingled with other changes so it was hard to merge.
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| 17:06 | warren: (re: x restarting)
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| 17:08 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~gideon/ltsp/gadi-ldm-trunk/
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| 18:42 | <rjune> http://www.beautiesltd.com/PRODUCT.ASPX?pn_deptid=6961 <--- thoughts, comments?
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| 20:01 | <jammcq> !seen sbalneav
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| 20:01 | <ltspbot> jammcq: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 1 day, 5 hours, 13 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <sbalneav> I'm just digging into seeing that it would take to get sshd to run a graphical password changer
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| 20:34 | <vagrantc> heh. "just"
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| 22:22 | <t-kid> hellow..
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| 22:26 | <t-kid> +v
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| 22:27 | i wanna ask something
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| 22:28 | it just a quick question
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| 22:43 | <|Paradox|> wow, that was quick
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| 22:43 | so quick, I missed it completely
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| 22:59 | <MacIver> and he never did manage to ask his question
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| 22:59 | how hard is it to just ask your question?
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