IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 28 July 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:50 | <Jenna> hey all.
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| 00:50 | is this SAMSUNG SyncMaster 730XT compatible withe ltsp
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| 00:52 | or can anyone suggest a suggest a sub $200 ltsp compliant terminal ?
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| 00:52 | <johnny> anything that can pxe boot usually
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| 00:52 | depends on if you want local apps or not.. then you need 512mb ram
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| 00:52 | but for normal thin client usage you need at least 128mb ram
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| 00:53 | <Jenna> yeah with ltsp5 I do need more ram. that I gather.
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| 00:53 | <johnny> it's not ltsp5 that needs it per se
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| 00:53 | it's the tools of linux itself
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| 00:53 | ltsp5 needs more cpu by default..
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| 00:53 | <Jenna> oh. but I have found ltsp 5 to be a little beefer client that ltsp 4.X ?
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| 00:53 | <johnny> since it tunnels X over ssh
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| 00:54 | sure.. but it doesn't have much specific to ltsp.. it uses more standard distro stuff
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| 00:54 | so..don't blame ltsp :) it's the tools
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| 00:54 | <Jenna> IC. what is the least Mhz that ltsp 5 requires ?
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| 00:55 | <johnny> i'm not sure
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| 00:55 | you can disable the ssh tunneling tho.. and should make it run a bit better
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| 00:55 | <Jenna> I have been running ltsp 4.2 on 233 Mhz (optiplex) pcs for 3 years now. but now I want to move onto ltsp 5 for sounds sake.
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| 00:55 | <johnny> that's probably unlikely
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| 00:56 | even if you disable the ssh tunneling
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| 00:56 | ltsp 4 was a custom distro
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| 00:56 | ltsp5 uses the host distro for more
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| 00:58 | <Jenna> hmm. I need to setup a ltsp lab for underpriviliged . I am havving hard time in choosing the terminal clients
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| 00:59 | the funding it tight. cant find $100 - $150 ltsp compliant clients
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| 01:00 | <johnny> i guess it depends on if you can rely on craigslist..
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| 01:00 | or try to get some machines from companies who are on their upgrade cycle
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| 01:01 | others here might have suggestions, but this is the wrong time
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| 01:01 | you might want to come back 12 hours from now
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| 01:02 | or post to ltsp-discuss if that isn't a possibility
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| 01:04 | <Jenna> naah. I can be here
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| 01:04 | what sort of client ur using ?
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| 01:04 | <johnny> donated machines
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| 01:05 | but they are all pentium 3 or 4
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| 01:05 | nothing under 600mhz
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| 01:05 | not by choice.. that's just how it came down
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| 01:06 | <Jenna> hmm. I wanted to cut down on power costs as well. so I was hoping for those slicker/thinner kinds
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| 01:46 | <Ahmuck> jenna, i located some 150 clients on newegg the other day
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| 01:47 | <Jenna> ah. what brand ?
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| 01:48 | <Ahmuck> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=50002136&Description=atom%20barebone&name=FOXCONN
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| 01:48 | foxconn
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| 01:51 | <Jenna> and I suppose they work out-of-the-box with ltsp5
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| 01:51 | ?
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| 01:52 | <Ahmuck> ack, firefox is closing randomly recently
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| 01:52 | anywho, haven't tested it myself with ltsp5 thin clients
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| 01:53 | been thinking bout it
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| 01:53 | no cdrom, and have to buy mem. but i speced mem out at 20.00 for a G iirc
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| 01:54 | though i can say i don't prefer that case. i prefer the older cases
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| 01:54 | <Jenna> hmm.
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| 01:55 | what about thincan. have any experience on those
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| 01:57 | <Ahmuck> interesting
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| 01:57 | haven't seen thincan before
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| 01:58 | <Jenna> they seem slick
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| 04:38 | <nubae> highvoltage, ping
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| 04:49 | <highvoltage> nubae: pong
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| 08:27 | <max9ai> Anybody here?
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| 08:31 | <cliebow> just wallflowers like me'
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| 08:32 | <max9ai> :)
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| 08:33 | Did you tried to install ltsp server under gentoo? :)
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| 08:33 | <_UsUrPeR_> this place was boring yesterday too.
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| 08:34 | <max9ai> o_O
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| 08:37 | <_UsUrPeR_> ^^ no one was here and talking
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| 08:37 | max9ai: I have not tried ltsp out w/gentoo yet
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| 08:38 | <max9ai> I can't to emerge it... There are ebuild's bugs or I'm a blit. :(
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| 08:39 | But I can't to fix it... or may be I'm doing something wrong...
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| 08:43 | <_UsUrPeR_> max9ai: What?
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| 08:43 | I recommend you try something that is not gentoo.
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| 08:44 | grantk has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:44 | <_UsUrPeR_> Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSUSE
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| 08:44 | <cliebow> there "were" gentooites around somewhere..
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| 08:45 | <ogra> johnny does the gentoo port
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| 08:45 | and i think there are known issues
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| 08:46 | <_UsUrPeR_> huh. That's genuine news to me
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| 08:47 | <grantk> Hello
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| 08:47 | Anyone using kde 4.2 with ltsp 5? I am having quite a few stability issues with it.
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| 08:49 | <grantk> I have been looking at my Xsession errors from various users and it appears that it could be related to firefox and it's love of memory
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| 08:50 | looked into NBD swap and enabled it. But so far I was expecting it to create swap directories under the /tmp dir but
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| 08:51 | I have not seen anything there, anyone know of a good way to actually tell if NBD swap is actually being used?
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| 08:56 | <ogra> dont use kde4 with ltsp
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| 08:56 | <vagrantc> that bad, eh?
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| 08:56 | <ogra> well, i have only seen people where it simply didnt work yet
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| 08:57 | <_UsUrPeR_> I was trying to come up with a nice way to say that...
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| 08:57 | <grantk> In a normal work day I have some people crash about 4-5 times
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| 08:57 | then some machines it runs great
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| 08:58 | <_UsUrPeR_> I have had a brain fart, does anyone know the name of the pam/ldap conversion tool for authentication?
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| 08:58 | google's not helping either :)
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| 09:00 | <vmlintu> _UsUrPeR_: conversion tool? You mean how to get pam authenticate using ldap?
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| 09:00 | <_UsUrPeR_> vmlintu: yeah, that's the one
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| 09:00 | <vmlintu> pam_ldap.so
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| 09:00 | <ace_suares> vmlintu: yep, found that on google too :-)
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| 09:01 | <vmlintu> libpam-ldap on debian/ubuntu
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| 09:03 | <_UsUrPeR_> grr :)
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| 09:03 | thanks
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| 09:07 | <rbla1> Hello, I have about 12 fat clients running off an Ubuntu 9.04 LTSP server. Every morning about 10 or so have hung up. When I switch to TTY1 I get the message:
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| 09:07 | Kernel call returned: Broken pipe Reconnectiong
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| 09:07 | Negotiation: ..size =720320KB
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| 09:07 | Ioctl/1.1a failed: bad file descriptor
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| 09:07 | Some googling has pointed me to some other people who have had the same problem, but the only solution I saw was to switch from NBD to NFS. I did this, but the clients will not even boot with this configuration. Can anyone give me any insight into why this is happening/how to fix it?
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| 09:11 | <grantk> is your /etc/exports file configured properly for nfs?
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| 09:11 | <rbla1> the only entry is
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| 09:11 | <vagrantc> rbla1: how far do they boot?
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| 09:11 | <rbla1> /home_ltsp 192.168.0.0/24(rw,no_root_squash,async,no_subtree_check)
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| 09:13 | <rbla1> They boot completely then sometime overnight they all hang up
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| 09:14 | <vagrantc> that's a rather odd location for LTSP
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| 09:14 | normally it's installed in /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 09:14 | and it shouldn't be writeable
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| 09:14 | <vagrantc> they all use the same filesystem, so it should be read-only
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| 09:15 | <grantk> that is what I have on my old ltsp 4.2 boxes..../opt/ltsp/i386 192.168.0.0/255.255.0.0(ro,no_root_squash)
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| 09:15 | <_UsUrPeR_> grant: have you tried localapps with firefox? If you're concerned about memory, you can always shift the memory demands to your clients...
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| 09:16 | <grantk> thinclients unfortunatley
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| 09:16 | most are old pII machines
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| 09:16 | <_UsUrPeR_> ahh.
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| 09:16 | <grantk> just recently started to convince them to go newer, so the ones that run well are intel atom based clients with around 1gb mem
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| 09:17 | if I had an office full of those I would be happy
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| 09:17 | some of the old pII's can swing it though, it just the ultra low memory models
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| 09:18 | <bieb> ok.. I have a wiring/server setup question.... I built and tested my ltsp server in my office with a small switch with 2 PCs (clients), the server has 2 NIC cards, eth0 was to the regular network here at the office eth1 was connected to the switch. Now that we are moving it into the actual server room (windows DHCP will be used, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWindowsDHCP) do I assign a static IP to both eth0 and eth1? eth1 having a 192.
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| 09:18 | <_UsUrPeR_> have you taken a look at http://www.disklessworkstations.com 's 1520 atom yet?
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| 09:18 | * _UsUrPeR_ shamelessly plugs | |
| 09:18 | <bieb> _UsUrPeR_: you work there too?
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| 09:19 | <_UsUrPeR_> yeah :D
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| 09:19 | <bieb> cool.. I know CAN-o-SPAM does also
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| 09:19 | <_UsUrPeR_> yeah, he's in my office.
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| 09:20 | <grantk> seen those before, would love to get the bossman to throw down for some
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| 09:20 | <ltsplogbot> I don't know who those is.
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| 09:20 | <bieb> I have 5 of my new 1520's installed in the lab.. once I figure out the answer to the question above.. I will be able to complete my testing.. Once that is done, the other 15 clients will be installed
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| 09:22 | <_UsUrPeR_> bieb: have you tried out the ubuntu alternate install cds?
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| 09:22 | bieb: wait, are you using ubuntu? :)
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| 09:22 | <bieb> already running Ubuntu
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| 09:22 | <_UsUrPeR_> the reason I ask about the alternate install CD: It's standard setup is as followd: eth0 = DHCP by default, eth1 = 192.168.0.1
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| 09:23 | <bieb> I have tested and all is working.. but that was sitting in my office, with a dedicated switch
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| 09:23 | <_UsUrPeR_> you don't *HAVE* to assign a static IP to eth0 if you just want to keep DHCP, but it works with a static IP as well
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| 09:23 | <bieb> I just want to make sure its the same since DHCP will be handled by a Windows DHCP server
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| 09:24 | <rbla1> vagrantc: what do you mean that is a rather odd location for LTSP? This is exporting a copy of the home directory with the clients. My LTSP image is located in /opt/ltsp/fat2
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| 09:24 | <_UsUrPeR_> bieb: DHCP is only handed out on eth1 by default when installed with the alternative installation
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| 09:25 | <vagrantc> rbla1: ah, i i thought you meant that it was the LTSP filesystem...
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| 09:25 | <bieb> _UsUrPeR_: in that document I linked, where it says: 066 Boot Server Host Name: <ip address> that IP should be the 192.168 address correct?
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| 09:25 | * _UsUrPeR_ looks at the link | |
| 09:26 | <vagrantc> rbla1: you'll probably want an entry in /etc/exports like so: /opt/ltsp *(ro,no_root_squash,async,no_subtree_check)
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| 09:26 | and restart nfs-kernel-server
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| 09:26 | <_UsUrPeR_> vagrantc: oh. I see. So you will be using windows' dhcp server to give IP addresses to your clients
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| 09:27 | <bieb> _UsUrPeR_: you mean bieb
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| 09:27 | :D
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| 09:27 | <_UsUrPeR_> err... yeah
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| 09:27 | * _UsUrPeR_ saw that too late | |
| 09:27 | <bieb> correct
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| 09:27 | <rbla1> vagrantc: is the only fix for this problem using NFS instead of NDB. As I understand it currently my image is being shared via tftp. Sorry I think I'm in a bit over my head here.
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| 09:27 | * vagrantc will never use windows anything :) | |
| 09:27 | <_UsUrPeR_> lulz
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| 09:27 | <vagrantc> rbla1: the image isn't shared via tftp, just the kernel+initramfs is downloaded via tftp
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| 09:28 | rbla1: the OS is mounted via NBD or NFS
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| 09:29 | <rbla1> vagrantc: So does the "Ioctl/1.1a failed: bad file descriptor" error mean I have something wrong with my NBD configuration?
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| 09:29 | NBD now.
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| 09:29 | I tried NFS, but the system would not even boot.
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| 09:30 | I followed a guide (http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/customizing-thin-client.html) but something tells me that I missed a step because as far as I can see th guide never has you export anything via NFS
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| 09:31 | <_UsUrPeR_> bieb: ok, just finished reading
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| 09:31 | <bieb> ok
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| 09:32 | <grantk> rbla1 I used the same guide, but edited my exports to make it work
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| 09:32 | <_UsUrPeR_> I would like you to get a second opinion on this from someone experienced with Windows DHCP, but that IP address should be your eth1 address. As long as you are running your server without modification.
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| 09:33 | I know you can use the same eth card for ltsp, but I have never set mine up like that
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| 09:33 | <bieb> ok.. thats what I was thinking
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| 09:33 | <rbla1> grantk: what exactly did you export to make it work?
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| 09:34 | <grantk> Next you will need to edit the /etc/export file to allow the sharing of the LTSP image. The path that you share must match the option root-path line in the dhcpd.conf file. following is the only line we use in our floyd exports file./opt/ltsp/i386 192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0(no_root_squash,no_subtree_check)
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| 09:34 | that was the part I added to my personal documentation on it
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| 09:34 | <_UsUrPeR_> bieb: so assign a static IP address to eth1, and make sure that you point the thinclients toward that IP in the windows dhcp configuration file
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| 09:35 | <bieb> _UsUrPeR_: thanks... in the line 067 Bootfile Name: ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 # for Edgy and up is that the correct location of the bootfile in 9.04?
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| 09:35 | <vagrantc> grantk: you can actually use /opt/ltsp, rather than /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 09:36 | unless /opt/ltsp/i386 is mounted on a different filesystem than /opt/ltsp
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| 09:36 | <grantk> I think that was done because there is a 64bit image in there as well
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| 09:36 | <ogra> and * for the ip if the network is for thin clients only anyway
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| 09:36 | <grantk> sorry, that was for vagrant
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| 09:36 | <vagrantc> as i said earlier, i would recommend: /opt/ltsp *(ro,no_root_squash,async,no_subtree_check)
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| 09:36 | <ogra> yeah
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| 09:37 | <vagrantc> grantk: yes, and /opt/ltsp will handle /opt/ltsp/amd64 as well as /opt/ltsp/i386 as well as /opt/ltsp/SOMEOTHERTHINGY
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| 09:37 | so you only need one line
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| 09:37 | <grantk> cool, will give it a shot
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| 09:37 | vagrantc : offer any better performance or just make things easier to read?
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| 09:37 | <ogra> rbla1, you dont shut down your server over night, do you ?
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| 09:38 | <_UsUrPeR_> bieb: yeah, you're definitely not using dapper :)
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| 09:38 | * ogra hopes *nobody* uses dapper anymore :) | |
| 09:38 | <bieb> right
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| 09:38 | <vagrantc> grantk: you don't have to restart the nfs server everytime you add something in /opt/ltsp/
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| 09:38 | <_UsUrPeR_> werd
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| 09:38 | <bieb> _UsUrPeR_: I was just checking to make sure it wasn't moved again
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| 09:38 | <rbla1> ogra: no it runs all the time
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| 09:38 | <vagrantc> grantk: and it works in all cases, instead of having it match anything
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| 09:38 | <_UsUrPeR_> naw, it's not going anyplace...
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| 09:39 | <vagrantc> grantk: i.e. you change your network, you change which directory you want mounted, etc.
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| 09:39 | <ogra> rbla1, did you check your server logs for the night ? if any restart of inetd or nbd services occured
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| 09:40 | <grantk> good to know, thanks vagrantc
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| 09:40 | <rbla1> ogra: i will check that now
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| 09:41 | <grantk> anyone know the name of the nbdswap directories created in /tmp?
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| 09:41 | <ogra> look in nbdswapd :) its a script
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| 09:42 | <rbla1> ogra: as far as I can tell the services were not restarted overnight.
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| 09:42 | <ogra> well, your connection dying somehow indicates that
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| 09:44 | <rbla1> ogra: are there any logs I should check other than /var/log/syslog?
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| 09:46 | <grantk> ogra: checked out nbdswapd and it did not really say, it started up /sbin/mkswap but can not look at that one it is a binary file
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| 09:46 | <ogra> SWAP=$(mktemp $TEMPFILE_OPTS)
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| 09:47 | and TEMPFILE_OPTS="${SWAPDIR}/XXXXXX"
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| 09:47 | so whatever mktemp makes out of that
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| 09:47 | man mktemp :)
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| 09:49 | <grantk> ogra: I see, thanks, definatly do not have any dirs created by mktemp in there, appreciate it
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| 09:54 | <rbla1> thanks everyone
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| 10:22 | <grantk> is the ltsp localdevice package required for nbd in ltsp5?
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| 10:22 | I am seeing that it is for ltsp 4.2
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| 10:23 | <johnny> no
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| 10:23 | nbd is integrated into the initital ramdisk
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| 10:25 | <grantk> ok, thanks johnny
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| 11:53 | <grantk> wanted to thank you guys again. Got my terminals using nbdswap so I will see if they become more stable. Guy that set it up originally did not disable the nfs mounting that we tried a day or two before going back to nbd, or what I thought was going back to nbd.
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| 11:58 | <ogra> grantk, if your server allows it (i.e. has lots and lots of ram) you can use a tmpfs to create the swapfiles in :)
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| 11:59 | that will make swapping actually work at a reasonable speed ... otherwise it will be very slow (but not crashing) if it start swapping
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| 12:07 | <grantk> only at 4g now and I am already not happy with its usage, so may have to wait until they get me some more memory
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| 12:07 | <ogra> well, you use kde4
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| 12:08 | <grantk> true
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| 12:08 | <ogra> that will hammer the server ram massively
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| 12:09 | <grantk> probably a good idea to switch, or see if kde 4.3 does any better
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| 12:09 | lucascoala_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:10 | <ogra> i doubt you will have much fun with any kde after 3 ...
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| 12:10 | same will go for gnome 3 once they switched
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| 12:16 | <grantk> ya, I went back a few days ago and hated it
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| 12:17 | I like gnome but others round here do not, and it would destroy the users worlds, they would have no idea what to do
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| 12:27 | <matttttt> what do you guys use now grantk?
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| 12:27 | for a wm?
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| 12:27 | <grantk> most people round her use kde 3.5 or 3.2
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| 12:28 | kind of foggy on that now, got one developer who was using xfce, he is moved over to kde4.2 now, and then about 5 people on our ltsp5 server running kde4.2
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| 12:28 | working on getting that ltsp5 server stable enough to make another and eventually move everyone here to an ltsp 5 server
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| 12:56 | <bieb> how can I change the internal IP on the ltsp server? I am running ubuntu9.04 currently the internal ip that the clients hit is 192.168.0.254, but that address is used on the student network for a gateway
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| 12:58 | <grantk> would it be in your /etc/networking/interfaces file?
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| 12:59 | <bieb> grantk: good question I will check. If I change that IP what other things will I have to fix or adjust??
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| 12:59 | <grantk> # The primary network interface
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| 12:59 | auto eth0
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| 12:59 | iface eth0 inet static
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| 12:59 | address 192.168.1.70
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| 12:59 | netmask 255.255.255.0
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| 12:59 | network 192.168.1.0
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| 12:59 | broadcast 192.168.1.255
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| 12:59 | gateway 192.168.1.254
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| 12:59 | that is from my interfaces file
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| 13:00 | <bieb> my eth0 connects to the internet, the eth1 is the "internal" connection that I need to change
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| 13:01 | <grantk> oh, ok, then you should just change the eth1 places there, you will of course want to change ip, netmask, network, gateway and broadcast if they are different
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| 13:01 | <bieb> ok... thanks
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| 13:02 | <grantk> np
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| 13:03 | don't forget to restart networking once changes made
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| 13:03 | ifconfig eth1 will of course tell you if they took effect
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| 13:03 | <bieb> cool
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| 13:22 | <bieb> anyone have some time for troubleshooting? I am getting a TFTP error of "File not found" on my clients, although everything was working prior to moving the server to the server room
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| 13:26 | <bieb> grantk:
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| 13:27 | grantk: you still here?
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| 13:29 | <matttttt> is it possible your client is getting a reply from a different tftp server?
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| 13:30 | have you checked the logs or even tcpdump on the tftp server to make sure the request is making it?
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| 13:31 | <bieb> matttttt: which log on the tftp server?
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| 13:33 | <matttttt> well, to see if the request is even coming in you can look at xinetd.log or equiv
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| 13:33 | should show something like this for each connecting client: xinetd.log:09/6/3@11:56:24: START: tftp from=::ffff:192.168.5.53
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| 13:34 | or better yet, run something like tcpdump -tni eth0X port 69
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| 13:34 | on the tftp server, where X is 0 or 1 and watch that while booting a client.
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| 13:34 | if your client is indeed hitting your tftp server, you'll see it, and can move on to making sure the files it should be serving are in the right place.
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| 13:35 | <bieb> ok.. let me go check that..
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| 13:35 | <matttttt> if you don't see the client making a tftp connection, it sounds like your client is hitting a different tftp server on your network, either because that one is responding first, or because your dhcp server is telling it to.
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| 13:37 | <vagrantc> bieb: did you change the ip, like you were thinking you might?
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| 13:37 | Lns has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:37 | <vagrantc> bieb: when you change the ip of the server, you will likely have to update dhcpd.conf as well
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| 13:37 | and restart it
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| 13:41 | <matttttt> hi vagrant, i've got a requirement for one of my ltsp servers to give lan access + internet access and some users only lan access, i'm toying with ideas of how to do this with just the ltsp server (no extra routers, firewalls, etc.). I was hoping iptables had some mechanism to base rules on user/group but it doesn't apear to. My plan b was to force all local http traffic through a local squid proxy and just require auth
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| 13:41 | anyone have any tips or better solutions?
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| 13:42 | i guess that only helps me with http traffic, if there is legit net traffic on another port i need to allow the 'trusted net' users to have, then everyone will have it.
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| 13:44 | <Lns> Does anyone here have an Ubuntu Jaunty LTSP setup they can test tux4kids apps on with sound? We need to figure out whether the issues in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tuxpaint/+bug/269082 are still present in Jaunty...it would be much appreciated!!
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| 13:45 | <Gadi> matttttt: somethin ala http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/block-outgoing-network-access-for-a-single-user-from-my-server-using-iptables.html ?
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| 13:45 | GodFather has joined #ltsp | |
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| 13:46 | <bieb> matttttt: here is what shows on the screen from the tcpdump:
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| 13:46 | IP 192.168.200.1.2070 > 192.168.10.11.69:39 RRQ "ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 #" octet tsize0
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| 13:46 | IP 192.168.200.1.2071 > 192.168.10.11.69:44 RRQ "ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 #" octet blksize 1456
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| 13:47 | vagrantc: I have removed dhcp from the server since we have a Windows DHCp server that handles the whole network
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| 13:47 | <matttttt> gadi, awesome. i guess i was missing that stuff. i'm going to give it a try now, if it works then i'll be set.
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| 13:47 | <Gadi> matttttt: also, see: http://copilotconsulting.com/mail-archives/sdlug.2004/msg00045.html
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| 13:48 | <vagrantc> bieb: well, then you'll have to configure the windows dhcp server to tell it which server to download from if you've changed ips ...
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| 13:48 | <Gadi> bieb: the Windows server needs to provide the equivalent of "next-server"
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| 13:49 | <bieb> vagrantc: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWindowsDHCP I followed that.. and the 066 bootserver IP is the IP that I changed to
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| 13:49 | <matttttt> hopefully there is a way to replace user or owner with group, that'll be a lot of extra rules for all of these users.
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| 13:49 | * matttttt reads | |
| 13:49 | <Lumiere> matttttt: replace user/owner with group for what?
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| 13:50 | <Gadi> matttttt: have a look at my last post
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| 13:50 | it uses --gid-owner
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| 13:50 | <matttttt> ah, nice.
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| 13:54 | <bieb> any other ideas or things to check? matttttt vagrantc Gadi
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| 14:12 | <grantk> Sorry, was out to lunch bieb
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| 14:14 | <bieb> grantk: no prob.. the IP info you sent me earler from your interfaces was that auto configured by ubuntu?
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| 14:14 | <grantk> Good question, I did not set it up, just have set my own static ip boxes up that way before.
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| 14:15 | you still not getting the ip to change?
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| 14:21 | <bieb> no.. I got it to change.. was just curious how yours was setup
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| 14:22 | <Gadi> bieb: just out of curiosity, do you have a leading slash in your filename?
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| 14:22 | boot filename, that is
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| 14:23 | <bieb> Gadi: :D my boss made a mistype in the filename. He added a # at the end
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| 14:23 | <Gadi> ah
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| 14:23 | all better?
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| 14:24 | <bieb> yeah.. except now I cant authenticate agains Active Directory.. "no response from server' so I am looking at the doc that I used to get AD auth working
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| 14:27 | Gadi: is there anything in Likewise that would get messed up by an IP change?
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| 14:28 | <Gadi> AD is DNS sensitive
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| 14:28 | you may need to rejoin the domain
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| 14:28 | evrything else should be fine
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| 14:29 | make sure DNS is working well (ie you can resolve the AD server by hostname with a ping)
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| 14:29 | <bieb> ok
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| 14:29 | <Gadi> then unjoin the domain and rejoin the domain
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| 14:30 | <bieb> cool.. let me take a look at those things now..
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| 14:31 | <Gadi> Lns: ping
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| 14:33 | <Lns> Gadi: pong
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| 14:33 | (on phone too, sorry if delayed response)
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| 14:34 | <Gadi> Lns: I was able to reproduce your xrestop test on openoffice
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| 14:34 | 5MB -> 26MB
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| 14:34 | or so
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| 14:35 | I know its cheesy, but you should be able to work around it by launching openoffice as a single application through NX
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| 14:36 | i am guessing (tho haven't tried) that NX would mitigate the pixmap usage
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| 14:37 | <Lns> hmm
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| 14:37 | I don't have NX set up at all, i'd hate to do that at all 7 schools :(
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| 14:37 | <Gadi> ah
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| 14:38 | nevermind
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| 14:38 | :)
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| 14:38 | <Lns> Thank you for the workaround though! I might try piloting that at some point, but i sure would love fix the core issue
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| 14:38 | or at least be involved in it ;)
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| 14:39 | Gadi: have you seen google's nx server implementation yet?
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| 14:40 | <Gadi> nope - been buried under a rock
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| 14:40 | you?
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| 14:40 | <Lns> not yet..just heard about it, not sure if it's even available to install yet
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| 14:52 | <bieb> Gadi: can not ping the hostname.. but can ping the IP
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| 14:52 | * Lns thinks we need to form an "LTSP action team" that puts pressure on upstream devs to make apps more compliant with thin client environments | |
| 14:56 | <bieb> if I disappear.. I will be right back..
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| 14:58 | <Gadi> bieb: "close" only counts in horseshoes, as they say
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| 14:59 | <rjune_wrk> Gadi: horseshoes, hand grenades, and atomic bombs
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| 14:59 | <bieb1> Gadi: very true
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| 14:59 | <Lns> and US presidential elections, apparently ;)
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| 15:04 | pmatulis_ has quit IRC | |
| 15:04 | <johnny> Lns, that's not how it works exactly..
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| 15:04 | Lns, the action team needs to raise money to hire people to fix the issues
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| 15:05 | that's the only way it will work
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| 15:05 | or convince canonical that they should hire people :)
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| 15:06 | <Lns> johnny: i'm thinking more distro-agnostic approach
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| 15:06 | <johnny> it's distro agnostic to fix upstream projects
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| 15:06 | <Lns> right, but canonical ...
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| 15:06 | <johnny> just picking somebody with money
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| 15:06 | <Lns> hmm, maybe LNS can be the company t do this =)
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| 15:06 | not that i have money
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| 15:07 | <johnny> well.. you gotta raise it then
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| 15:07 | if 1000 people have the problem, and they commit $100 each.. then you're talking real money :)
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| 15:07 | <Lns> hmmmm
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| 15:07 | * Lns will think about this on the way to the school to troubleshoot SDL audio & pulseaudio | |
| 15:08 | <Lns> Food for thought
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| 15:08 | thx johnny =)
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| 15:08 | bbl
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| 15:25 | <brendan`> has anyone here ever had major problems with i386 clients connecting to an amd64 server? i'm running 8.10 on the server, and i can't get my clients to stop completely freezing, sometimes on completely trivial tasks such as saving a file
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| 15:25 | i've been debugging for 3 weeks now and thought i had a solution but just found out it's still happening
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| 15:25 | the same clients worked fine on the same server until i upgraded from i386 to amd64 on the server
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| 15:38 | <vmlintu> brendan`: I've seen freezes running i386 clients on amd64 server, but haven't ever looked if that would be a cause
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| 15:39 | brendan`: what kind of clients do you have?
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| 15:41 | and how often do you see the freezes?
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| 15:42 | <brendan`> they aren't thin clients per-se
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| 15:42 | most of them are old dell optiplex's
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| 15:43 | the one in question the most is a p4 1.7ghz with 2gb ram
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| 15:43 | <brendan`> the freezes happen randomly
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| 15:43 | last week they were happening very often
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| 15:43 | every hour or so
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| 15:43 | i've tweaked some settings in the lts.conf file and got them to stay pretty stable
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| 15:44 | <vmlintu> every client froze once an hour?
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| 15:44 | <brendan`> but apparently one of my users yesterday couldn't even save a file in open office without it freezing
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| 15:44 | no, that's the weird part too
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| 15:44 | some clients will stay on for whole days
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| 15:44 | then randomly freeze
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| 15:44 | the biggest culprit however though is when my users use vmware-server-console to get to a virtualmachine on another server
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| 15:45 | so im thinking it has something to do with pixmap caching
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| 15:45 | but, the user that was freezing all day yesterday doesn't use vmware, and was only trying to use openoffice
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| 15:46 | <vmlintu> freeze = mouse doesn't move, keyboard does nothing, screen stops changing, network is dead?
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| 15:46 | <brendan`> only one freeze today though, but when i looked that use had at least 3 firefox windows open, a bunch of other stuff, and was trying to paste a huge image into open office
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| 15:46 | well, the freeze today was weird, mouse still moved, just couldn't click anything, could still switch over to a terminal
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| 15:46 | but, for the last 3 weeks, they have been total freezes
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| 15:46 | no mouse, no terminal, only thing to fix them was power off
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| 15:47 | im wondering if it is network related
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| 15:47 | i have seen alot of NBD errors in my logs
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| 15:47 | <vmlintu> I've heard rumours of these kind of crashes
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| 15:47 | <brendan`> mostly on thin client startup though
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| 15:48 | i did actually have to swap out my gigabit card because i had an intel pro e1000 and it wouldn't work with 8.10amd64
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| 15:48 | <ab2> any pointers on troubleshooting LTSP-5 (Ubuntu 9.04) booting via NFS. The root fs doesn't appear to get mounted rw and I get errors about readonly FS.
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| 15:48 | I've been tracing through ltsp-client-setup thus far.
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| 15:48 | <vmlintu> our systems are on ubuntu 8.04, but the two kinds of freezes sound the same
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| 15:49 | <brendan`> ab2: edit your /etc/default/ltsp-client-setup under your ltsp chroot
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| 15:50 | change your rw_dirs and add in /root
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| 15:50 | vmlintu: are you booting nfs or nbd?
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| 15:50 | <ab2> brendan: thanks, giving it a try now
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| 15:51 | <brendan`> remember to rebuild your image after
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| 15:51 | <vmlintu> brendan`: nbd
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| 15:51 | <brendan`> Jul 28 10:02:09 ltspserver nbd_server[25346]: Read failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device
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| 15:51 | i get lots of errors like that
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| 15:51 | none at the time of freezing though
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| 15:52 | only when the clients boot up
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| 15:53 | <vmlintu> I've been suspecting that at least some of the hangs could be irq related, but haven't been able to verify that at all..
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| 15:53 | <brendan`> yeah
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| 15:53 | i've been wondering, last time i asked in here someone said it could be network related
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| 15:54 | im wondering if for some reason packets are getting dropped, the nbd connection is dying, and therefore the client goes down
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| 15:54 | but, i tried reverted back to nfs, and was still getting the same issues
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| 15:54 | <vmlintu> my understanding is that if nbd goes down, mouse still moves
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| 15:55 | <brendan`> ahhh
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| 15:55 | so in my case it has to be the x server maxing out either ram or videoram
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| 15:55 | and the x session crashes
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| 15:55 | <vmlintu> have you tried pinging the clients when this happens?
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| 15:56 | <brendan`> that's why i thought i had everything solved this weekend, i tried hardcoding my video ram in the lts.conf
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| 15:56 | and everything seemed good
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| 15:56 | i stress tested one of the clients for a good hour, running several instances of OO, firefox, and loaded the vmware server console
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| 15:56 | but then yesterday one of my users was freezing saving a file on that same machine
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| 15:56 | <vmlintu> do all the clients have 2 gigs of memory?
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| 15:56 | <brendan`> when the clients freeze, there is nothing
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| 15:57 | no ping, no ssh, no terminal
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| 15:57 | no, but none have less than 512
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| 15:58 | <vmlintu> have you seen the freezes ever happen without someone moving a mouse or typing on keyboard?
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| 15:58 | <ab2> adding /root to rw_dirs didn't help yet. I am dumping to a bash shell to pke around and noticed that I cannot cd /root/ even when 'id' says i'm uid=0. /root is 700
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| 15:59 | <brendan`> no, that was another question of mine, alot of times it seemed to happen explicitly when someone was moving the mouse
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| 15:59 | mainly over a window that tries to take focus
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| 15:59 | like a toolbar in openoffice
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| 15:59 | or the vmware server console tries to grab control
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| 15:59 | <vmlintu> I've seeing exactly the same behaviour on my test thin client every 2-3 days now
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| 16:00 | <brendan`> ab2: did you update your image?
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| 16:00 | <ab2> im not using nbd so it was immed. after a reboot.
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| 16:00 | <vmlintu> usually is freezes exactly at the moment when I try to click on icon or something else
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| 16:00 | it's got 1Ghz via processor with 512 megs of memory
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| 16:00 | <brendan`> hmmm
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| 16:01 | that sounds very close to what i have seen happen
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| 16:01 | <vmlintu> icon being for example icon on evolution's toolbar
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| 16:01 | <brendan`> ab2: if you're using nfs you have to rebuild everytime you do anything
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| 16:01 | right, and it tries to take focus of the mouse
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| 16:02 | to update a status bar or pop a help balloon
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| 16:02 | <vmlintu> probably
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| 16:02 | <brendan`> that sounds very similar to issues i've seen
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| 16:03 | <brendan`> ab2: did you also set BOOT=nfs in your /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/ltsp in your ltsp chroot?
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| 16:03 | when you change that, you have to update your initramfs
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| 16:03 | <vmlintu> I've been following the memory usage on the thin client by running top, but I've never caught it exactly at the moment when it freezes
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| 16:03 | <ab2> brendan: I did set that. By update do u mean run ltsp-update-image?
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| 16:04 | <vmlintu> But there's always plenty (>200 megs) of memory free when I check it
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| 16:04 | <brendan`> you have to update-initramfs -u in your chroot
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| 16:04 | <vmlintu> And I don't run openoffice
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| 16:04 | <brendan`> then sudo ltsp-update-kernels outside of chroot
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| 16:04 | yeah, i've been watching xrestop, top, htop, iftop, iotop, etc nothing shows anything funky
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| 16:04 | i have all my clients remote logging to syslog
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| 16:04 | nothing indicates anything wrong
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| 16:05 | <vmlintu> that sounds the same
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| 16:05 | and that's why I've been beginning to suspect irq related problems
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| 16:05 | <brendan`> ab2: and yes, it doesn't hurt to ltsp-update-image as well
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| 16:06 | <brendan`> how do you suppose we get a dev involved in this?
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| 16:06 | my users are beginning to get real pissed at me
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| 16:07 | <vmlintu> when you updated to amd64, did you update the ubuntu version also?
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| 16:07 | and did you ever see this before the upgrade?
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| 16:08 | <brendan`> no, we were running an 8.10 i386 setup on the same hardware for almost a year
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| 16:08 | then 2 of our 4 hard drives crashed within 2 weeks (luckily they were RAID!!)
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| 16:08 | so i did an overhaul of the whole thing
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| 16:08 | and figured amd64 was up to speed nowadays so why not take advantage of having an amd64 chip
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| 16:09 | 4 new hard drives, upped the memory to 4gigs and installed a fresh copy of 8.10
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| 16:09 | <vmlintu> how many users do you have on it?
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| 16:10 | <brendan`> when all my users are here, 10
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| 16:10 | it will freeze at times when there are only 1 or 2 though
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| 16:10 | <brendan`> and oddly enough, i have one machine that is a crappy old dell, maybe 700mhz, 256ram, integrated video, and it hasn't crashed yet
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| 16:11 | but my three optiplex's have
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| 16:11 | and the whitebox 1.7ghz p4 with 2gb ram and 32mb nvidia tnt card is the one that crashes the most
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| 16:13 | <vmlintu> the only thing that comes into my mind right now is to try booting the kernel with irqpoll parameter
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| 16:14 | <brendan`> hmm, i'll take note of that
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| 16:15 | can't change anything right now, going to NYC for a meeting tomorrow, don't want to lock every one out somehow
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| 16:15 | <vmlintu> I've seen some thin clients behave differently with that
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| 16:16 | but I have not tried them for these freezes as this via box doesn't like the parameter
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| 16:19 | btw, do you use ps/2 or usb mice and keyboards?
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| 16:27 | <brendan`> combination of both
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| 16:27 | mostly usb mice though
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| 16:27 | a few ps/2 keyboards
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| 16:28 | <vmlintu> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-189572.html
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| 16:29 | <vmlintu> it's old, but it talks about turning off legacy usb support in bios
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| 16:29 | maybe you could try that also
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| 16:30 | <brendan`> hmmm
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| 16:30 | i wonder if noapic or apic in the kernel would have any effect on this
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| 16:31 | <ab2> brendan: updated /etc/default/ltsp-client-setup to include "/root" in rw_dirs, in chroot ran update-initramfs -u, then outside chroot ran ltsp-update-kernels. /root still not readable.
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| 16:31 | <brendan`> i did you add BOOT=nfs in /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/ltsp ?
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| 16:32 | <ab2> brendan: yep, just double checked
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| 16:32 | <brendan`> hmmm
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| 16:33 | wait
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| 16:33 | or writeable?
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| 16:33 | ./root is not readable?
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| 16:33 | <ab2> boot is now stuck as Server Authorization directory perms error msg.
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| 16:33 | yep is not READable
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| 16:33 | mode is 0700
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| 16:33 | <brendan`> oh
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| 16:33 | <ab2> `id` returns i am 0
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| 16:34 | <brendan`> hmmm
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| 16:34 | you got something else going on
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| 16:34 | what are you running?
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| 16:34 | ubuntu/debian/fedora?
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| 16:35 | <ab2> the ltsp is from Ubuntu 9.04 it is being hosted by HPUX11.23 NFS and ISC DHCP
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| 16:35 | <brendan`> oh right
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| 16:35 | hmmm, im not sure what's going on
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| 16:36 | <ab2> from bash I have these "/" mounted: rootfs on / type rootfs (rw) AND IP:/opt/ltsp/i386 on / type nfs (lots of options here)
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| 16:38 | does that sound right? This is before the execution of /etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup
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| 16:38 | <vmlintu> brendan`: if you try the kernel options or bios settings, I'd be really interested in knowing the results..
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| 16:39 | <brendan`> vmlintu: i'll note that, i'll let you know
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| 16:40 | i won't be able to get to it until maybe this weekend
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| 16:40 | <vmlintu> other thing to do would be to find out how many others are seeing these freezes
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| 16:40 | <brendan`> i've been scouring the internet, searching through bug reports, forums, archives, etc
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| 16:40 | i have not found anything all that similar
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| 16:41 | and anything i have found, haven't improved my situation
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| 16:41 | <vmlintu> I copy that..
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| 16:41 | <brendan`> although, i shouldn't say that
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| 16:41 | it has improved
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| 16:41 | <brendan`> i used to be able to get them to freeze pretty consistently
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| 16:41 | but i tweaked a few things
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| 16:42 | and now i stress tested one last weekend, and i couldn't get it to freeze no matter what i did
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| 16:42 | i had firefox open with many tabs, open office going in several instances, and vmware server console open
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| 16:42 | nothing
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| 16:42 | but then on this same machine, one of my users has been freezing just saving a file in open office, nothing else open
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| 16:42 | i'm almost wondering if there are settings in their /home that are screwing with things
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| 16:42 | <matttttt> so i know i could setup a sniffer or network monitor and figure this out, just wondering if anyone knows offhand, haven't had time to check yet, about how much data comes down over the wire when a client pxeboots (everything up to the ldm screen prompt)
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| 16:43 | <brendan`> tons
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| 16:43 | <matttttt> that's not helpful :)
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| 16:43 | <brendan`> haha
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| 16:43 | well, the size of your image at least, i would imagine
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| 16:43 | <alkisg> No, it's smaller
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| 16:43 | Not all the image is transfered
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| 16:44 | <brendan`> how much of it?
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| 16:44 | <vmlintu> maybe I should start dumping all network traffic to disk to see what the client sends as the last thing before it freezes..
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| 16:45 | <alkisg> brendan`: Well, you could e.g. have 15 Gb image or 150 Mb image; it wouldn't make much difference while booting the client
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| 16:45 | Only the files needed while booting would get transferred in both cases
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| 16:45 | <brendan`> interesting
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| 16:46 | do people really have 15gb images?
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| 16:46 | mine is 241mb
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| 16:46 | <alkisg> Nah, I don't think so :)
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| 16:46 | <brendan`> haha
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| 16:46 | <matttttt> well if my image is 150m? how much is likely being transferred?
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| 16:46 | <alkisg> But I imagine 1 Gb is common with extensive localapps usage
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| 16:46 | <brendan`> right
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| 16:48 | <alkisg> matttttt: I don't remember, but you can easily measure it yourself using e.g. iptraf, iptop, wireshark...
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| 16:55 | <vmlintu> I just realized that my test box has a serial port.. I wonder how difficult it would be use it for kernel debugging..
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| 16:57 | <matttttt> hm, that can't be right
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| 16:57 | only 1.5m to the ldm screen?
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| 16:57 | from a 150m image
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| 16:58 | <matttttt> oh well, i'll find out tomorrow. quitting time
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| 17:59 | <staffencasa> has anyone setup GRUB to PXEBOOT?
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| 18:00 | <alkisg> I read that grub uses an ancient gpxe version, so when I need grub + pxe I just load gpxe.krn with grub...
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