IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 2 September 2017 (all times are UTC)
| 00:03 | <dgroos> but… when I try to login while sitting at a booted client, it says: “Permanently added the ECDSA host key for IP address ‘192.168.67.1’ to the list of known hosts” sits there for 30 seconds or so, then returs straight to the login screen.
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| 00:03 | Any ideas?
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| 00:26 | Need to leave, will post on ltsp-list. Thanks!
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| 09:28 | <markit> hi, 16.04, I've NO network manager (everything in /etc/network/interfaces) setup dnsmasq only as a dns cache (cache-size=1000, listen-address=127.0.0.1, listen-address=192.168.20.10 that is LTSP client side), but now resolution does not work, I don't understand how to make them play nicely, the doc I've found implies network manager that I've REMOVED (I don't want it)
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| 09:29 | any clue?
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| 09:35 | mmm seems related to that listen-address, removing and restarting then works
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| 09:36 | but I don't want to provide dns services on the (ltsp server) wan interface (eth0 that is 192.168.1.10)
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| 09:37 | mmm restoring the config works too... so seems a race condition, dnsmasq is run before resolver at startup... possible?
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| 09:41 | yes, rebooting seame problem, restarting dnsmasq solved :(
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| 09:46 | alkisg: having /etc/hosts with items like "192.168.20.101 ltsp101" ... "192.168.20.150 ltsp150" is necessary? Was necesary? Improves anything? Don't remember why I put them there
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| 09:51 | <alkisg> markit: dnsmasq conflicts with nbd-client so it doesn't start half of the times
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| 09:51 | Solved with ltsp-pnp or ltsp-manager
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| 09:51 | It improves "reverse dns lookups"
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| 09:52 | E.g. if a client contacts the server, and IF you've configured the server to do reverse dns lookups, it'll need to do a dns lookup for 192.168.20.101, which might be slow depending on your setup
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| 09:52 | It's not necessary to do it normally
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| 09:52 | Normally mdns (avahi) takes care of this
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| 09:58 | <markit> I've to setup this 12.04 to 16.04 server ASAP, so no time to dig into ltsp-manager (but I've took note to do very very soon). So better avoid dnsmasq at all at the moment
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| 09:58 | Hope they will fix this nasty bug of dnsmasq/nbd-client soon sigh
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| 10:00 | ok, found the fix in your doc (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPLiveUSB)
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| 10:03 | but seems network-manager related
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| 10:04 | also I've no nbd-client on ltsp server
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| 10:04 | shoudl I?
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| 10:16 | <alkisg> I think it's easier to use something new that works, rather than re-do all those last months that I did troubleshooting stuff, by yourself again
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| 10:16 | But if you like bugs, sure, do it as you like :)
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| 10:17 | LTSPLiveUSB is based on some of my docs, but I didn't write it
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| 10:17 | Also, it's incomplete, it doesn't contain the new bugs that were found in 16.04
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| 10:17 | You don't need nbd-client on the ltsp server if you're not using ltsp-pnp
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| 10:21 | network-manager also conflicts with dnsmasq, even if you remove it
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| 10:22 | It would worked if you purged network manager, instead of apt-get remove, which leaves the conffiles in /etc behind
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| 11:22 | <markit> alkisg: dpkg -l | grep ^rc shows no network manager left
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| 11:23 | <alkisg> markit: ls /etc/dnsmasq.d
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| 11:24 | <markit> and I did a purge
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| 11:24 | ls: cannot access '/etc/dnsmasq.d': No such file or directory
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| 11:24 | <alkisg> It's strange to have dnsmasq without its configuration directory
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| 11:24 | Broken setup?
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| 11:24 | <markit> ehm, of course, I've purged dnsmasq before
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| 11:25 | do you want me to reinstall?
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| 11:25 | <alkisg> Maybe I misunderstood?
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| 11:25 | Are you using dnsmasq or not?
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| 11:26 | <markit> alkisg: I WAS using dnsmasq, was unable to make it work, and since I used it ONLY as dns cache, I purged it to solve the issue fast
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| 11:26 | <alkisg> [12:41] <markit> yes, rebooting seame problem, restarting dnsmasq solved :(
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| 11:26 | <markit> (now I realize I did not wrote about that sorry)
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| 11:26 | <alkisg> OK, I was talking about dnsmasq, I didn't realize that you removed it
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| 11:26 | Never mind then :)
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| 11:27 | <markit> alkisg: yep, manually restarting dnsmasq or resolver, but at each reboot the dns is broken, so I removed dnsmasq
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| 11:27 | <alkisg> That's what I was trying to help you with, yeah
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| 11:27 | I know what causes it and how to solved it...
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| 11:27 | But since you're not using it, nevermind
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| 11:28 | <markit> I would love to use it, we have a very slow connection at school, but if it takes too long I have to give up and have a look another time
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| 11:28 | "dnsmasq conflicts with nbd-client" I have no nbd-client so decided not to bore you further on this topic
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| 11:29 | you are vey kind and helpful, but I don't want to waste (too much of) your time if not strictly necessary ;P
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| 11:29 | s/vey/very
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| 11:29 | <alkisg> There are 3 reasons for dnsmasq to break, nbd-client and networkmanager are 2 of them, anyway ltsp-manager automatically solves all of them so np
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| 11:29 | I mostly care about the recommended ltsp setup, not about custom setups...
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| 11:30 | Custom setups require a sysadmin, so it's his job to troubleshoot them :D
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| 11:31 | <markit> alkisg: you are right, the "problem" is (forgive me) I learned about ltsp-manager just a day ago, and since I have no time to understand and test it with my kubuntu install, I skipped but this does not mean at all I'm not very much interested in it, as I am in eveything you do for ltsp
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| 11:31 | <alkisg> Hey I'm not blaming you for anything no worries!
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| 11:31 | <markit> hahaha, ok, I'm the sysadmin, so you should write "a good sysadmin" ;P
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| 11:31 | <alkisg> It's only my part; that personally I don't mind about bugs found in custom installations
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| 11:32 | ltsp-manager is the same as ltsp-pnp, which has been around for years
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| 11:32 | <markit> really???
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| 11:32 | <alkisg> It doesn't have any new or old bugs
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| 11:32 | Yes, it's just an automated ltsp-pnp installation
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| 11:32 | The ltsp-pnp page mentions how to do things manually, while ltsp-manager do them via a menu
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| 11:33 | (called initial-setup)
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| 11:33 | <markit> ltsp-pnp... I don't use (yet) ltsp-pnp, I have to solve some problems kde related before (had no time so far)
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| 11:33 | that's maybe why I did not noticed
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| 11:33 | <alkisg> I can't imagine how kde fat clients with work without ltsp-pnp and would break with ltsp-pnp
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| 11:33 | Do you mean that ltsp-pnp breaks things for you, and plain ltsp works?!
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| 11:33 | That would be very strange...
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| 11:34 | <markit> no, I just have it to run some (custom) script I made to solve some phonon issues or directory links/paths
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| 11:34 | otherwise kde crashes or takes a huge amount of time to boot
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| 11:35 | I don't remember, I asked you about it when I tested ltsp-pnp (for one user), I took some note about your replies but had no time to investigate so far
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| 11:36 | <alkisg> And that script works in ltsp and it doesn't work in ltsp-pnp?
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| 11:36 | I just can't understand what part would work in ltsp, and wouldn't work in ltsp-pnp...
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| 11:38 | <markit> let me retrieve some info if I find them...
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| 11:40 | ok, found.
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| 11:40 | In fat chroot I create this script
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| 11:40 | '/etc/X11/Xsession.d/10ltspMM_rm_phonondevicesrc
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| 11:41 | and I put something like (took from my ruby scripts, so there are escapes for ruby)
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| 11:41 | "rm \"\$HOME/.kde/share/config/phonondevicesrc\"
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| 11:41 | "# change kde permanent cache path from default /var/tmp to ~/.cache"
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| 11:41 | "KDEVARTMP=\"\$HOME/.cache\""
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| 11:41 | "export KDEVARTMP"
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| 11:42 | this has to be done for ltsp clients and not for the Server regular users
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| 11:42 | so the question is/was: how can I do for -pnp?
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| 11:43 | I need this to be executed by the clients at startup of the session (I mean, when "normal" fat executes them from /etc/X11/Xsession.d/)
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| 11:45 | <alkisg> You just do this on top of the script:
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| 11:45 | test -n "$LTSP_CLIENT" || return
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| 11:46 | Or you put it in /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X*
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| 11:47 | <markit> oh, you mean put in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/10ltspMM_rm_phonondevicesrc and with that test I can run only if a ltsp client? Cool
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| 11:48 | what about /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X* ? What is it for?
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| 11:49 | <alkisg> To run things when the Xsession starts, while also having access to the ltsp variables and lts.conf and the remote file system for thin clients etc
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| 11:49 | Check the scripts that are already there
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| 11:51 | <markit> I've only X50-client-env, hope is enough :)
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| 11:52 | <alkisg> Look in the chroot, in your case
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| 11:52 | You're not using ltsp-pnp now, so you don't have ldm in the server, you have it in the chroot
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| 11:53 | <markit> I see!
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| 11:58 | btw, ltsp-manager is GUI based, is there something I can run in ssh instead? I remember a ltsp-config or something like that. I think is time to avoid my script and move to your stuff (for the next install). But with automated stuff I did not wrote I will loose even more control, so my low skill about what is going on will be even worse, what do you think?
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| 12:02 | btw, http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Ltsp-manager/Preparation I get (firefox) "This version of the UserMerge extension requires MediaWiki 1.25+"
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| 12:02 | <alkisg> I'm playing with the wiki now, I'll fix it in a few minutes
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| 12:03 | ltsp-manager is gui based, but it has scripts underneath
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| 12:03 | One of them is /usr/share/ltsp-manager/initial-setup.sh
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| 12:09 | <markit> alkisg: where is the official doc? I've found some link but seems obsolete, like http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/ that does not mention -pnp at all
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| 12:09 | <alkisg> ogra_: can you delete that ^ because it's misleading people?
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| 12:09 | <ogra_> eep ... i need to delete that dir i guess
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| 12:09 | <markit> maybe I just have to try it in a proxmox VM and come back if I have issues
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| 12:10 | <alkisg> ogra_: There's also a blueprint about ltsp-manager that needs deletion... thanks!
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| 12:10 | <ogra_> (though the creation date should have told you something :P )
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| 12:10 | not sure i can delete blueprints
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| 12:10 | <alkisg> markit: ogra had a project with the same name in the past, but they are unrelated
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| 12:10 | !ltsp-manager
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| 12:10 | <ltsp> ltsp-manager: LTSP Manager is a GUI tool that makes LTSP maintenance easy. It's the recommended way to install LTSP in common setups. More info: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Ltsp-manager
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| 12:10 | <alkisg> That's the official doc
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| 12:11 | <markit> oh, I see, in fact I was confused by this
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| 12:13 | mmm sounds great (as usual is Alkisg's stuff I must say), just to understand the impact in how I've organized my stuff but I'm optimistic :)
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| 12:15 | <ogra_> i removed the dir
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| 12:18 | <alkisg> thank you ogra_ :)
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| 12:30 | <markit> alkisg: I don't remember the requirement of the ltsp server to be named "server" if has been remove and/or is configurable somewhere. None of my servers have that name and things worked so far but...
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| 12:31 | btw, I've a lot of notes about our conversation, but is frustrating how difficoult is to translate it in a clear, updated and coherent/complete documentation. I feel lost and clueless so often :(
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| 12:32 | <alkisg> markit: up until a year ago, if you didn't name it "server", then cups wouldn't work
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| 12:32 | I fixed it about a year ago
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| 12:32 | <markit> oh, yes, now I remember, thanks
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| 13:49 | <pop_> hi all
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| 13:49 | anybady here/
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| 13:55 | <markit> argh, I've 12GB ram and a i386 installation, and I see the reference to this bug https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196157
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| 13:56 | wondering how bad will affect the boot of 24 fat clients
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| 13:59 | <q9> Hi, is it possible to use passphrase-protected ssh-keys for authenciation with ldm?
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| 14:08 | <rkwesk> alkisg: If you are not asleep, may I chat with a bit?
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| 14:14 | First of all I again congratulate the three of you for sending upstream the more flexible LTSP Manager.
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| 14:15 | I will try it with both Stretch and Ubuntu
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| 15:01 | <markit> alkisg_web: in http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Ltsp-manager/Preparation , Network, config has to be in /etc/network/interfaces or with NetworkManager or does not matter at all?
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| 15:26 | <alkisg> markit: 12 GB => you can limit them with mem=8G in the kernel cmdline
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| 15:26 | markit: about network config, ltsp manager configures dnsmasq in proxydhcp mode
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| 15:27 | If you are using isc-dhcp then you need to manually update ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf
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| 15:28 | LTSP manager shouldn't break if you're using /etc/network/interfaces for static IP etc, it should work without network manager fine, but I haven't tested it
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| 15:29 | <markit> I see, my problem is that teachers are clueless so if I expose the NM to them, they could break it and cry "nothing works, but nobody did anything wrong!"
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| 15:29 | I'm trying ltsp-manager in a vm, reading about shared dirs and trying to figure out that config
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| 15:31 | (I'm using ACLs for that, but I've some troubles and there is added complexity, windows ACL sigh seem better to me, i.e. if you copy a file it gets the acl of the destination dir, so if the dir is "everyone" becomes a shared file automatically)
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| 15:31 | <alkisg> Teachers here like to see the network manager applet because it tells them when they pulled the network cable by mistake
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| 15:31 | And it shows the speed etc
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| 15:31 | Shared folders should work fine out of the box, without bothering about ACLs
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| 15:31 | ACLs don't properly solve the shared folders issue, that's why I used bindfs
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| 15:31 | <markit> sure, but you told me time ago that your average teacher is not a clueless newbie, mine are
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| 15:32 | <alkisg> The "sysadmins" aren't; but the normal teachers are
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| 15:32 | <markit> is there an explaination about different roles? teacher, stuff, student, administrator...
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| 15:32 | <alkisg> A computer teacher is the "sysadmin", but many teachers use the computer lab, which are clueless
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| 15:32 | administrator means "put him in sudo"
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| 15:33 | teacher means "put him in teachers and in epoptes"
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| 15:33 | student => none of those
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| 15:33 | <markit> also would be great having the possibility to import/export accounts for creation/deletion/whatever from .ods or csv for mass management
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> stuff => only in epoptes
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| 15:33 | It's there, read the docs :)
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| 15:33 | Import/export to .csv
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| 15:34 | <markit> oh, I see, sorry for the noise, lol
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| 15:34 | (I searched under "users")
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| 15:35 | <alkisg> We should probably merge the "file" menu with the "users" menu
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| 15:36 | Let's see if people like ltsp-manager first
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| 15:36 | <markit> also I should shift from my "every user has it's own account" (and I have to create them every year) to your "fixed accounts, rotate users. Woundering if you have already created the tool/option to remove all the home content once the student has graduated and leaves
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| 15:37 | <alkisg> Right click on the users, delete, and check remove home
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| 15:37 | E.g. select the c1, c2, c3 groups first, then select all users
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| 15:38 | <markit> also I've the option to reset the setup (removing i.e. .config or .kde) so if a user messes up the desktop or whatever, the teacher can "restore" a working situation in a snap
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| 15:38 | <alkisg> I think I'll shift to the model of "u17a01", which means "user that got in the school in 2017 and got to the a class and works on pc01"
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| 15:38 | That should be an epoptes option
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| 15:38 | Right click on the user
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| 15:39 | In some cases it can go in ltsp manager too, sure
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| 15:39 | <markit> ah, I don't create users in epoptes, to be sincere I don't use epoptes ad all (teachers do... well, some...)
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| 15:40 | <alkisg> epoptes can't create users, but it can run commands on the logged in users
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| 15:40 | So if a teacher detects an issue, he could reset the panel etc without calling the sysadmin
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| 15:41 | <markit> good, but as a sysadming then having that in ltsp-manager (so you can act against a user not logged) sounds good too
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| 15:41 | as you already said :)
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| 15:41 | <alkisg> Yes, some actions are for the teacher and others for the sysadmin
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| 15:42 | E.g. "reset panel/desktop" is for the teacher, while "delete all files" is for the sysadmin
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| 15:42 | <markit> or the evil teacher ;P
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| 15:43 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 16:06 | <markit> alkisg: ltsp-chroot -a i386 -p -d -c, then nano /etc/cups/cups-browsed.conf and I get "Error opening terminal: screen.xterm-256color.". I don't remember anything like that in the past
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| 16:06 | (outside chroot works fine)
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| 16:13 | <alkisg> Dunno I don't use chroots
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| 16:14 | They had a lot of issues that I didn't like to troubleshoot :)
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| 16:15 | <markit> urgh, /etc/default/grub is not present in my server... wondering if has been removed by something by mistake, let's dig
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| 16:16 | <markit> mm 12.04 did not had it too...
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> markit: you can find the example at /usr/share/grub/default/grub
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| 17:03 | Copy it to /etc/default manually because it appears you deleted it
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| 17:04 | <markit> I'm trying with a vm as thin client (ipxe boot), seems slow like hell
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| 17:04 | sorry, solved with a purge/reinstall of grub
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| 17:05 | now set 8GB limit, hoping in a kenerl fix soon but seems 32 bit is almost abandoned these days
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| 17:13 | mmm I forget that I reinstalled dnsmasq, then I purged it again, now seems fast in booting (maybe the reason is a different one), I just during boot I get a "FAILED failed to start simple desktop display manager" but things go well then, seems I'm ok, thanks A LOT as usual
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| 17:13 | btw, the model of "u17a01" seems bad since suggests to link an user to a PC
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| 17:14 | while the fabolous thing of ltsp is that if a pc is broken you can use another without issues
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| 17:14 | also happens that a student changes classes, i.e. from a to b
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| 17:35 | <alkisg> markit: in schools, we use this model a lot
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| 17:35 | We have e.g. 2-3 students working on the same pc
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| 17:35 | and we want to keep them on the same pc to discover vandalism, broken keyboards etc
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| 17:35 | Of course they can work elsewhere, but that's where we want them
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| 17:36 | So, that model is per seat and per class
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| 17:36 | There are other 3 models for user accounts, read the ltsp-manager docs for the one that suits you
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| 17:36 | E.g. per student or only per seat etc
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| 18:03 | <markit> I've to leave, thanks you again, have a good night :)
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