IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 30 April 2019 (all times are UTC)
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| 18:57 | <quinox> !LDM_PASSWORD_HASH
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| 18:57 | <ltsp`> LDM_PASSWORD_HASH: LDM_PASSWORD_HASH=True in lts.conf saves the password hash to /etc/shadow on login, so that the users can unlock the screensaver etc. If they happen to change their password though, that only takes effect until logout.
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| 18:57 | <Sleaker> hmm, so I can get my thinclient to boot the image just fine, but it's not getting into a graphical login.
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| 18:58 | what's the best place to start troubleshooting which area is the problem
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| 18:59 | <quinox> does control+alt+f1 / control+alt+f2 work?
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| 18:59 | <Sleaker> yup
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| 18:59 | <quinox> if so you can poke around in the logs
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| 18:59 | <Sleaker> I have syslog forwarding working too
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| 18:59 | <quinox> smart
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| 18:59 | <Sleaker> and ssh directly into the box
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| 19:00 | <Sleaker> not sure if it's problematic but I am getting a pam issue with dbus-org.freedesktop.login1.service not found.
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| 19:01 | oh also looks like the nbd client is getting disconnected after the system boots.
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| 19:01 | that's odd
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| 19:02 | https://pastebin.com/51Vv8ppg
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| 19:09 | <vagrantc> that's normal
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| 19:09 | <Sleaker> mkay. it looks like it gets remounted later on.\
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| 19:09 | <vagrantc> the nbd disconnect ... it's just a check to compare if the image you're running is different than the available image
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| 19:10 | to prevent people from running outdated images
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| 19:10 | <Sleaker> makes sense. should there be 2 client processes still running nbd-client though? 2 of them look hung
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| 19:10 | 3*
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| 19:13 | <vagrantc> haven't looked at that aspect closely ... i would think they would close on disconnect, but maybe run for a bit...
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| 19:14 | <Sleaker> hmm. probably not related at all to my issue anyway
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| 19:14 | <vagrantc> yeah, the dbus stuff might be a bigger problem
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| 19:15 | <Sleaker> mhmm
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| 19:15 | <vagrantc> LDM_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH=false ?
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| 19:15 | <Sleaker> not set
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| 19:15 | <vagrantc> try it
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| 19:16 | <Sleaker> had XSERVER=vesa, but just commented that out.
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| 19:16 | <vagrantc> let me check to make sure i've got it right
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| 19:16 | !smart
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| 19:16 | <ltsp`> I do not know about 'smart', but I do know about these similar topics: 'socat', 'story', 'sugar'
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| 19:16 | <vagrantc> X_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH=False
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| 19:16 | sorry
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| 19:17 | <mwalters> !story
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| 19:17 | <ltsp`> story: see: !worldmap
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| 19:17 | <mwalters> !sugar
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| 19:17 | <ltsp`> sugar: for anyone curious, this is how to get sugar, ejabberd and collaboration working perfectly on LTSP: http://www.nubae.com/sugar-on-ltsp-ubuntu-intrepid-ibex
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| 19:17 | <mwalters> intrepid...
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| 19:17 | :D
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| 19:17 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 19:18 | <mwalters> I ran intrepid on... a Dell X1!
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| 19:18 | <vagrantc> much of LTSP is quite dated :)
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| 19:18 | <mwalters> maybe it was 9.04
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| 19:18 | <vagrantc> on the one hand, it largely continues to work ... though mostly thanks to alkisg
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| 19:18 | <mwalters> :D
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| 19:18 | <Sleaker> yah, I was pretty happy that the ltsp4.2 stuff we have 'just works' still
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| 19:19 | <vagrantc> before my time :)
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| 19:19 | <Sleaker> all I had to do was update the dhcpd conf and move some config files into new locations.
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| 19:19 | I mean.. all of this was before my time too
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| 19:19 | <vagrantc> Sleaker: i think that project was the most i'd ever worked with ltsp generations before ltsp 5 :)
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| 19:20 | <Sleaker> yay legacy base :D
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| 19:20 | oh really?
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> yeah, i pretty much got involved with LTSP once they went to what essentially became LTSP 5
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| 19:20 | <Sleaker> i ran my own pxe boot server at home for a long time, so it was really easy to figure the 4.2 stuff out.
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> before that i had my own network booted system project
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| 19:20 | <Sleaker> pretty straightforward.
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| 19:46 | vagrantc: not sure if it changes much, but the server is running lightdm and I'm trying to get clients working over xdmcp
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| 19:49 | <vagrantc> i don't know that lightdm existed last time i tried xdmcp...
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| 19:50 | <Sleaker> it's what we had on our previous setup
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| 19:50 | <vagrantc> oh, it's been a while :)
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| 19:50 | <Sleaker> haha yah.
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| 19:51 | <vagrantc> xdmcp has grown increasingly neglected over the years ... ltsp 5 only had basic support for it
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| 19:51 | <alkisg> Sleaker: what's the output of sudo ltsp-info | nc termbin.com 9999 ?
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| 19:51 | <Sleaker> alkisg: from a client?
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| 19:52 | <alkisg> No, the server
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| 19:53 | <Sleaker> http://termbin.com/qw3z
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| 19:53 | also I find it interesting that it pulls the wrong lts.conf
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| 19:53 | <alkisg> Where are the chroots?
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| 19:54 | <Sleaker> that is definitely not the one that is getting downloaded by the client since they are amd64 and it's getting served from /srv/tftp
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| 19:54 | /opt/isi/ltsp5/images/isi-amd64.img
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| 19:54 | the i386 dir is the ltsp42 setup
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| 19:55 | <vagrantc> Sleaker: isi-amd64.img is built and packaged, if i remember?
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| 19:55 | <alkisg> The image you're trying to boot, is it stretch? And, thin or fat?
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| 19:55 | <Sleaker> vagrantc: I rebuilt it.
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| 19:55 | <vagrantc> so, on the live server, there's no chroot?
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| 19:55 | <Sleaker> correct.
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| 19:55 | I'm rebuilding an image on a separate build server and then installing it on the box.
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| 19:56 | alkisg: thin.
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| 19:56 | <alkisg> stretch thin?
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| 19:56 | <Sleaker> correct
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| 19:56 | I could probably try dumping the old image on there and see if it has the same thing actually
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| 19:56 | <alkisg> And you did try the X_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH=False directive?
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| 19:56 | <Sleaker> trying it now
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| 19:57 | <vagrantc> Sleaker: you had variety of clients that all had some interesting quirks ... trying to update to support newer clients, or just a general refresh?
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| 19:57 | <Sleaker> the newer TCs we have are all zbox 320/323 nanos
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| 19:58 | all the old TCs boot using the old 42 method
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| 20:01 | welp we got there
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| 20:01 | login screen :D
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| 20:01 | <alkisg> Heh, vagrant proposed that 40 mins ago :D (10:16:49 PM) vagrantc: X_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH=False
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| 20:02 | <Sleaker> alkisg: yah wanted to bake it into a deb package along with me turning off a read-edid script he had written for us too. wanted to pair down anything running in between when it was laucnhing stuff.
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| 20:02 | cool
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| 20:03 | seems pretty slow though. might need to turn vesa back on haha
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| 20:03 | <alkisg> So your thin clients have a couple of GB RAM, and an atom processor, yet you're working them as thin, not fats?
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| 20:03 | How so?
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| 20:04 | <Sleaker> alkisg: we don't get them with HDs built internally.
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| 20:04 | <alkisg> No, ltsp fat clients are diskless
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| 20:04 | !fatclients
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| 20:04 | <ltsp`> fatclients: Nowadays LTSP supports thin and fat clients. They are both diskless and netbooted from the same LTSP chroot, but while thin clients run the session on the server and transfer the screen, fat clients run the session locally with their own CPU/RAM, thus performing amazingly better. See also !ltsp-pnp and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 20:04 | <Sleaker> ah, I probably need to swap to fat client then
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| 20:04 | or look at it.
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| 20:04 | <alkisg> What are the exact cpu/ram specs?
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| 20:05 | <Sleaker> alkisg: our software stack need to run off the server though.
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| 20:05 | <alkisg> You can use remoteapps for a few apps if you want
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| 20:05 | <Sleaker> not like a few..
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| 20:05 | <alkisg> If you do want the session on the server, then go for thins
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| 20:05 | <Sleaker> might be more problematic, but I can try it out.
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| 20:06 | but yah, we have a bunch of apps that require talking to a flatfile database on the local server.
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| 20:06 | so thin client was always just architecturally where we went.
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| 20:06 | <alkisg> If it's already multiuser enabled, they could also access it via sshfs
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| 20:06 | <Sleaker> it's not.
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| 20:06 | well...
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| 20:07 | it's complicated :P
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| 20:07 | <alkisg> How does it run with multiple thin client users then?
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| 20:07 | Haha
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| 20:07 | OK
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| 20:07 | <Sleaker> I could probably write a wrapper app that sshd into the box and displayed the application, but that would only get like partway there.
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| 20:07 | and wouldn't work for where we are going in the future.
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| 20:08 | <alkisg> Fat clients are already using ssh and sshfs
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| 20:08 | <Sleaker> yup
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| 20:08 | <alkisg> Usually wrapper apps are not needed
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| 20:08 | <Sleaker> app constraints.
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| 20:08 | I'll look into it, but probably will cause problems.
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| 20:08 | <alkisg> Just LOCALAPPS_EXTRAMOUNTS=/srv/the-required-dir, to forward the database dir
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| 20:08 | np; sounds like your setup is complicated, so you know better :)
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| 20:09 | <Sleaker> https://www.zotac.com/dk/product/mini_pcs/zbox-ci323-nano#spec
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| 20:09 | but yah the TCs are powerful enough to be fats.
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| 20:09 | our support department replaced all the tech computers with them :P
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| 20:09 | <alkisg> up to 8GB RAM => doesn't say
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| 20:10 | <Sleaker> oh I think we ship them with 2gb
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| 20:10 | <alkisg> Good enough for fats, yeah
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| 20:11 | <mwalters> I still think 4-8 is best for chrome/chromium :P
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| 20:11 | <Sleaker> accurate
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| 20:11 | we played around with local apps.
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| 20:11 | 2gb was fine for chromium.
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| 20:12 | <mwalters> our agency document management is a webapp... but we're also a gSuite shop... we have a few tabs open on each box, usually ;)
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| 20:12 | <Sleaker> but then we're comparing a server system with only 8GB of ram running 2-4 TCs to running the browser on the TC via local app.
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| 20:12 | alkisg: on the slowness thing, it was rendering white boxes on the screen all over and not refreshing it quickly.
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| 20:12 | like X was only updating part of the screen at a time and slowly.
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| 20:13 | <alkisg> Eh, thin clients have a lot of issues nowadays
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| 20:13 | Xorg doesn't care much for its remote implementation
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| 20:13 | <Sleaker> host system is an i7-6700 w/ 16GB
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| 20:29 | <vagrantc> Sleaker: i seem to recall issues where the app you needed to run also called other apps, and basically everything ended up running on the server
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| 20:29 | <Sleaker> vagrantc: yup
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| 20:29 | <vagrantc> so even if you did remote apps for that one thing, it would end up running everything remotely...
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| 20:30 | <Sleaker> yup
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| 20:30 | <vagrantc> everything except the window manager, anyways... which maybe that would still take some load off the server
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| 20:38 | <Sleaker> on the bright side, I got the ltsp boot image generation all automated in our build process now. which makes it a lot easier to deal with
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| 20:38 | <vagrantc> nice
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| 20:39 | <Sleaker> oh hmm, something changed, rebooted and no just at a blank screen lol.
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| 20:41 | <vagrantc> is it maybe not actually reading the lts.conf ?
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| 20:42 | <Sleaker> nah /etc/lts.conf on the TC matches the one on the server
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| 20:42 | and it changes if I reboot the TC after changing the server one.
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| 20:43 | that was the first thing I started with. cause I wasn't 100% on where it was supposed to go
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| 20:43 | <vagrantc> right
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| 20:45 | Sleaker: i just realized from your paste, you're working on a stretch/9 system ... i don't know what your timeline is, but buster/10 is likely to release in a few months
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| 20:45 | <Sleaker> yup
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| 20:45 | <vagrantc> would give you a longer support cycle ... if it works
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| 20:45 | <Sleaker> I think I have everything to a point where I can just download all the packages and have it just work.
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| 20:46 | took a lot of time removing all of the os-specific stuff we have and making it detect the os name automatically so I can just build a buster image when ready
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| 20:46 | <vagrantc> cool
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| 20:46 | <Sleaker> we still had code referencing valhalla.
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| 20:47 | old-school redhat codename :P
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| 20:47 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 20:47 | even older school norse mythology!
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| 21:19 | <Sleaker> also, yah switched over to debian on this next go around. I've not been a huge fan of ubuntu while we've been using it.
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| 23:56 | <Sleaker> mkay we working again. now time to see if a reboot breaks it lol
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| 23:57 | had to modprobe i2c-dev for get-edid to work.
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| 23:59 | hmm so after rebooting the TC it doesn't appear to be able to get back to the login screen
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