IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 10 April 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:33 | <dberkholz> johnny: i've seen you having fun with the fetches
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| 00:33 | <johnny> :(
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| 00:33 | * johnny is suprised the perl herd was so out of date | |
| 00:34 | <johnny> 2 or 3 versions behind or something
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| 00:34 | on two seperate packages.. THAT WERE REQUIRED BY GIT
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| 00:34 | <dberkholz> were they broken?
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| 00:34 | <johnny> no
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| 00:34 | upstream src is gone
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| 00:34 | <dberkholz> they should've been on gentoo mirrors
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| 00:34 | if they're in the tree
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| 00:35 | <johnny> hm.. yeah somethign is going on with the mirrors
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| 00:35 | oh..
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| 00:35 | maybe i broke something
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| 00:35 | but either way.. the upstream author wasn't providing that version anymore
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| 00:35 | hmm.. what did i do..
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| 00:35 | <dberkholz> did you set GENTOO_MIRRORS="" or something?
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| 00:36 | <johnny> i knew it ! :(
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| 00:36 | i was just thinking that
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| 00:36 | i've never used GENTOO_MIRRORS
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| 00:36 | the defaults have always been fine
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| 00:36 | so.. didn't know setting it empty would do that :(
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| 00:37 | ok.. looks like i need to adjust the profile one more time
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| 00:37 | * johnny feels really dumb | |
| 00:37 | <johnny> ok.. well at least i know how to fix it
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| 00:38 | <dberkholz> that's the hard part, the rest is just waiting
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| 00:38 | <johnny> what's the recommended way to get the contents of the owner portage tree
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| 00:38 | err host*
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| 00:38 | UGH
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| 00:39 | no.. make.conf variables
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| 00:39 | <dberkholz> i'll wait for that to make sense =)
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| 00:39 | <johnny> so i can ask make.conf what it has in the host
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| 00:39 | GENTOO_MIRRORS for example
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| 00:39 | <dberkholz> johnny: i don't understand what you're trying to do
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| 00:39 | <johnny> i want to get GENTOO_MIRRORS from make.conf
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| 00:40 | from /etc/make.conf to /opt/ltsp/'s one
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| 00:40 | <dberkholz> ok, i see
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| 00:41 | there are many possible ways of doing this
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| 00:41 | <johnny> i was going over the sed oneliners page, but my sed knowledge was never very expansive..
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| 00:41 | <dberkholz> one way: in a subshell, source /etc/make.conf and echo whatever variables you care about
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| 00:42 | another way: create a link of make.conf in the client root, and add a line at the top of the client make.conf that does 'source /etc/make.conf.server' or so
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| 00:42 | <johnny> hmm.. i did that somewhere..
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| 00:44 | <dberkholz> another way: just make people reconfigure for the client root, there probably aren't that many identical settings
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| 00:44 | another way: when you start the build, copy in the server's make.conf and then start tweaking it
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| 00:44 | <johnny> no.. i just want GENTOO_MIRRORS
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| 00:44 | <dberkholz> you probably want more than that
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| 00:44 | <johnny> really?
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| 00:44 | like?
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| 00:44 | this is for install
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| 00:44 | they can tweak things after
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| 00:45 | <dberkholz> why not set up as much as is reasonable?
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| 00:45 | <johnny> i haven't?
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| 00:45 | <dberkholz> if we've gotta do one thing, might as well do 'em all
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| 00:45 | <johnny> i think i have been
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| 00:45 | <dberkholz> PORT_LOGDIR, FEATURES, SYNC, CFLAGS/CHOST/ACCEPT_KEYWORDS (on same-arch builds, anyway), LDFLAGS, MAKEOPTS
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| 00:46 | CCACHE_DIR, CCACHE_SIZE, CLEAN_DELAY, maybe USE
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| 00:46 | <johnny> some of those can be done during the initial install atm, others not
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| 00:47 | <dberkholz> pretty much everything listed in make.conf.example that could be set in their make.conf
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| 00:47 | <johnny> well.. some of those.. we should just link to the appropriate profiles
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| 00:48 | <dberkholz> every variable i listed is one i have in my make.conf
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| 00:48 | not from profile
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| 00:48 | <johnny> oops.. i forgot that make.conf comes from the stage3
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| 00:49 | not from the profile
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| 00:49 | CHOST and CFLAGS are in that
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| 00:50 | but i gotta leave something for you to do :)
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| 00:50 | i'm just trying to get it working
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| 00:50 | with near feature parity with ubuntu/debian
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| 00:52 | once that happens, we can add plenty more things i'm sure
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| 00:53 | we really need to fix genkernel so it will actually build an x86 kernel and initramfs from outside the chroot :(
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| 00:54 | it'll build the x86 kernel fine now ..
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| 00:54 | it doesn't do the right thing with UTILS_CROSS_COMPILE at all
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| 00:54 | so.. now busybox
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| 00:54 | err no busybox*
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| 00:55 | hey warren , are you about?
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| 01:49 | <dberkholz> johnny: i seem to be doing a better job of serving as a sort of expert resource than actually getting stuff done
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| 01:50 | <johnny> is that how you want it?
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| 01:51 | sorry for charging ahead so much, i was just really excited
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| 01:52 | it's been fun to learn how it works
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| 02:21 | * gvy is back (gone 36:24:12) | |
| 02:22 | <gvy> halo
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| 02:22 | dberkholz, me too :)
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| 02:27 | <johnny> and the perils of using upstream directly..
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| 02:28 | openrc git just got broke
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| 02:34 | <remitaylor> my thin client dhcp's properly from my ltsp-server but then it seems to re-dhcp from my gateway while booting and it loses its rootserver/rootpath info and drops to busybox ... anyone experienced this / know if i can prevent this? do i have to put something in my /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf or ... something? using ubuntu 7.10 ... here's a screen of what it's doing: http://remi.org/ltsp-redhcp.png (gw=10.5.5.1,ltsp=.99,gw-dhc
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| 02:37 | <johnny> yes.. heard of that. i'm sure somebody here will know the answer if you stick around a bit
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| 02:38 | <remitaylor> whooooooo another human being! thanks :)
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| 02:39 | <johnny> you're on at the wrong time sadly
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| 02:39 | most of the folks won't be about for a bit later
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| 02:40 | <remitaylor> i hear that. ~ 1am my time, actually, but ... that's when all good IT work gets done around here :P
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| 02:44 | <johnny> here too
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| 02:44 | gotta do the work when the store is closed
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| 02:47 | <remitaylor> exactly. good for sysadmin work because the systems aren't in use. good for programming ... cause it's quiet
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| 02:47 | <johnny> i wish i knew some other late night IT people locally..
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| 02:51 | <remitaylor> they're probably lurking in the shadows. who knows? the only thing you can know for sure is ... obviously _their_ ltsp setups are working :P
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| 02:51 | <johnny> mine works.. mostly
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| 02:51 | i need to implement something so it doesnt' make the music skip on the server
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| 02:54 | <remitaylor> i can't wait to have such problems ... it'll mean i've got it up and running okay
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| 04:01 | <ogra_cmpc> johnny, there is only one answer to that question (at least for everything before ubuntu 8.04) ....
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| 04:02 | dont use more than one dhcp server in one network
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| 04:03 | hardy just recently got code to run dhcp on a different port for the adventourous minds :)
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| 04:03 | remitaylor, ^^^
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| 04:35 | <laga> ogra_cmpc: did ou upload a fixed ltsp?
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| 04:36 | <ogra_cmpc> laga, didnt you get mail from the publisher ?
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| 04:36 | i even upoladed under your name
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| 04:36 | <laga> ogra_cmpc: didn't get anything.
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| 04:37 | oh, thanks. even you made some more changes. :)
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| 04:37 | i left my name in there because i initially assumed no more changes on your part were necessary for that upload.
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| 04:39 | <ogra_cmpc> yeah, the patch didnt apply properly, i had to fiddle a bit
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| 04:39 | (and it was late at noght after a 14h day, so please test the change)
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| 04:41 | <laga> i had a 14h days as well, so i'll make sure to test it :)
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| 04:41 | i dont have my laptop handy right now so it'll have to wait
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| 05:12 | <warren> johnny: ?
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| 05:15 | <ogra_cmpc> morning warren
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| 05:17 | <warren> hi
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| 05:17 | I woke up because of the pain
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| 05:18 | <ogra_cmpc> mah, thats bad
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| 05:20 | <warren> this is normal for me =(
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| 05:21 | <ogra_cmpc> yeah, you said so before
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| 05:21 | it helps a lot to have a good bed though
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| 05:23 | <warren> I have a good bed
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| 05:23 | the pain seems to be caused by sitting too much
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| 05:23 | for work
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| 05:24 | <ogra_cmpc> work standing upright then ...
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| 05:25 | <laga> or take a laptop to bed
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| 05:25 | <ogra_cmpc> i know a company where they have only tables you can stand on and a treadmill at every workplace
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| 05:25 | so you stay fit all the time ... the CTO says it increased the productivity in a noticeable way
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| 05:34 | <kwak> hi, does anyone here know of a presentation about opensource not just ltsp but also using Linux. I will present open source and the use of Linux OS in our school in two weeks
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| 05:35 | I want to show them the PROs and the CONs and other information.
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| 05:35 | #k12ltsp
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| 05:51 | <muh2000> how to change volume ?
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| 05:55 | with "VOLUME = 100" in the lts.conf ?
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| 06:47 | <jummel> hello?
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| 06:49 | does anyone know how i can set the default session in LDM so it logs into KDE rather than the strange iconless, barless DE\
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| 06:49 | ?
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| 06:52 | is anyone here?
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| 06:52 | <ogra_cmpc> jummel, distro ltsp version ?
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| 06:53 | <jummel> I'm running sidux
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| 06:53 | I think version is 5
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| 06:53 | <ogra_cmpc> sidux is a debian clone, right ?
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| 06:54 | <jummel> no, I think it's better described as managed debian
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| 06:54 | it draws packages directly from debian
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| 06:54 | <ogra_cmpc> well, its a debian based one, thats what i was after
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| 06:54 | <jummel> unlike ubuntu which has its own packages
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| 06:54 | <ogra_cmpc> update-alternatives --config x-session-manage
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| 06:54 | *x-session-manager
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| 06:54 | select kde
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| 06:55 | <jummel> do i chroot into the i386 directory first?
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| 06:55 | <ogra_cmpc> no
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| 06:55 | on the server
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| 06:55 | ldm executes /etx/X11/Xsession ....
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| 06:56 | Xsession looks for ~/.xsession and if thats not here iot falls back to the x-session-manager alternative
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| 06:56 | (which defines teh systems default desktop)
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| 06:57 | (at least thats how it works in ubuntu and debian)
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| 06:57 | (not sure the sidux guys do something differently)
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| 06:57 | <jummel> ok thanks
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| 06:57 | I'll give that a go
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| 06:58 | <ogra_cmpc> do you know which repo sidux bases off ? sid or testing ?
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| 06:58 | (might be that the sid ltsp version is broken atm)
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| 06:59 | <jammcq> g'morning
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| 06:59 | <ogra_cmpc> hey jammcq
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| 07:01 | <jummel> IT WORKED!
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| 07:01 | YAY!
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| 07:01 | I think Sidux always points to the sid debian repositories
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| 07:01 | otherwise the name would be pretty stupid
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| 07:02 | why sid is the name of a release level or something is even more confusing i think
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| 07:02 | anyway, thanks, CYA!
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| 07:03 | <ogra_cmpc> i guess he didnt watch toy story :)
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| 07:17 | <imperfect-> So I'm told you guys might be PXE ninja's?
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| 07:21 | <ogra_cmpc> not really ... but we know about all the surrounding bits :)
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| 07:22 | whats your prob ?
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| 07:23 | <imperfect-> Well
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| 07:23 | I'm doing somehting not related to LTSP
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| 07:23 | But I was told you guys were good with PXE ;)
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| 07:23 | Just trying to figure out how to correctly identify machine types via isc dhcp
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| 07:24 | Alas, there seems to be a two stage deal where it sends PXEClient:Arch:00000:UNDI:003016, before it sends the string I'm looking for in my match statement
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| 07:24 | <ogra_cmpc> well, thats rather dhcp then :)
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| 07:24 | <imperfect-> Aye
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| 07:24 | I know
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| 07:24 | Twas suggested I come her e;)
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| 07:24 | <ogra_cmpc> see, its always the surrounding bits :)
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| 07:25 | <imperfect-> nod nod
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| 07:25 | Any ideas?
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| 07:25 | ;)
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| 07:25 | <ogra_cmpc> you can match against vendor-class-identifie
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| 07:25 | r
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| 07:25 | <imperfect-> Right
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| 07:26 | <ogra_cmpc> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/dhcpd.conf
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| 07:26 | <imperfect-> And what I'm saying is vci comes back PXEClient:Arch:00000:UNDI:003016
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| 07:26 | for like maybe 4 or 5 DHCPOFFERS
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| 07:26 | <ogra_cmpc> that at least gives you distinction between ppc and x86 arches
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| 07:26 | <imperfect-> then it switches to the one I want
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| 07:26 | <ogra_cmpc> wait for Gadi, he's deep into such stuff
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| 07:26 | (and should show up soon (new york time))
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| 07:27 | <imperfect-> AAPLBSDPC/i386 <-- looking for that
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| 07:27 | It switches option 60 in the midst
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| 07:27 | and then starts the pxe bios id again
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| 07:27 | rinse, repeat.
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| 07:28 | The real issue I have here, as I see it, is that I've got a shitton(tm) of LWAPP's
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| 07:28 | PCs that need PXE service and these apples.
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| 07:28 | The LWAPPS won't be a problem. They play nices and always send option 60 like I'd expect.
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| 07:29 | So I think my plan will be to class for Apples, Cisco LWAPPS and have it fall through to straight PXE ;)
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| 07:29 | Sound reasonable?
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| 08:52 | <gvy> halo
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| 08:52 | vagrantc, ayt?
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| 08:54 | <vagrantc> gvy: hmmm?
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| 08:54 | * ogra_cmpc dances around his new lappie | |
| 08:54 | <gvy> vagrantc, re merge. :) if you might find some more time, would be glad to understand when to show up
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| 08:54 | <ogra_cmpc> just in time for installation testing :)
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| 08:55 | <gvy> i've just sorta got from under the pile of rub^H^H^Hjob and led too, so just discussed next merge and what should be better to do
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| 08:55 | ogra_cmpc, 'grats :)
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| 08:56 | vagrantc, so far i think that doing functions hook (for distro-specific functions) and moving part of stuff deeper for now should be an easier start
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| 08:56 | so that when folks have time, distro-specific scripts can be reviewed and if reasonable/more generic, generalized
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| 08:57 | so that it's no specific anymore
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| 08:57 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 08:58 | i also think that some functions need to remain distro-specific, but we should use common function names that behave the same way
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| 08:58 | <gvy> yeah
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| 08:58 | <vagrantc> i.e. get_arch () { dpkg --print-architecture }
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| 08:58 | for debian and ubuntu
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| 08:59 | <vagrantc> get_arch () { case $(uname -a) ; i*86) echo FOO ;; esac }
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| 08:59 | <gvy> or rather for "standard dpkg-based distros" -- e.g. mepis might jump in some day too
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| 08:59 | <vagrantc> gvy: well, ubuntu may even want a different function ...
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| 08:59 | <gvy> but the hierarchy of differences is like locks: they can be more fine-grained over time, not immediately :)
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| 08:59 | <vagrantc> i.e. i think ubuntu defaults to installing i386 on amd64, for example.
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| 09:00 | gvy: but at any rate ... you have any new branches to propose for merging? or you want to discuss first before working on them?
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| 09:01 | gvy: there were some remaining changes as yet unmerged, because they came mixed in with some changes that i definitely don't want to merge without more discussion and probably re-writing them a bit.
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| 09:02 | it's been a while since i looked at them, but that's what i remember.
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| 09:04 | <gvy> vagrantc, well one was about boolean_is_{true,false} and somewhat philosophic discussion on trating defaults
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| 09:04 | when you told that each and every default value is to be defined in a common config (which is reasonable and was omitted by me while thinking things over beforehand)
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| 09:05 | another one was an obvious bugfix for selinux check, i've posted test cases for that sort of shell scripting mistake i used to repeatedly make too :)
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| 09:06 | <vagrantc> gvy: i think the selinux check was fixed differently.
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| 09:06 | <gvy> that is, [ ... ] && ... as a last command might result in whole script's exit code being non-zero
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| 09:06 | vagrantc, well, i hope :)
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| 09:07 | vagrantc, so i think that for the functions part, we'd do a hook and put it under ALTLinux/ atm
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| 09:07 | is that ok with you? (with hopefully a merge-up some day)
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| 09:08 | <vagrantc> gvy: depends on how it's implemented i guess.
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| 09:08 | <gvy> indeed
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| 09:08 | i mean the direction
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| 09:08 | <vagrantc> gvy: have you looked at the current bzr of ltsp-trunk ?
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| 09:08 | <gvy> vagrantc, i have beein looking into image build system and corresponding hooks/bugs/packages for these two weeks...
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| 09:09 | *been
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| 09:09 | will have a look as led syncs up, probably
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| 09:09 | <warren> did you even LOOK at it recently?
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| 09:09 | the selinux line wont exit the script non-zero
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| 09:10 | <vagrantc> gvy: just to keep in mind, please keep proposed upstream changes in different branches than altlinux-specific stuff
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| 09:10 | <gvy> warren, no as i've said :) but hope it's all ok there by now
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| 09:10 | <vagrantc> gvy: and ideally, each proposed upstream change in it's own branch
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| 09:11 | <gvy> vagrantc, ugh. i understand why but with that heavy branches it's going to be so slow :( okay, we'll try
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| 09:12 | <warren> gvy: if you don't split out the alt specific stuff from upstream rewrites then the alt specific stuff will get in much slower.
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| 09:12 | if you intend on forking permanently then the latter is fine.
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| 09:13 | <gvy> warren, i wouldn't spend time and bytes then :]
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| 09:14 | <vagrantc> gvy: the easier it is for us to review a merge, the quicker it will go in. it's very simple.
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| 09:14 | <gvy> vagrantc, warren, yeah, i do understand
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| 09:14 | and it's all reasonable :)
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| 09:15 | <vagrantc> i feel like i've already spent too many hours trying to sort out what's what.
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| 09:15 | <gvy> maybe :(
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| 09:16 | <vagrantc> i'm debating weather to make my ltspfs changes in trunk or not ... it's a pretty significant change from previous behavior.
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| 09:16 | <vagrantc> but i think it's the right direction
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| 09:16 | calling both cdpinger and ltspfsd from udev, rather than from the ltsp-client* init scripts (or wherever you call them from)
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| 09:36 | <gvy> vagrantc, so we'll do a functions hook as discussed back then (in a separate branch)
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| 09:37 | like
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| 09:37 | <Led> [ -f /usr/share/ltsp/finctions-$VENDOR ] && . /usr/share/ltsp/finctions-$VENDOR
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| 09:38 | <vagrantc> basically, yes. although we might want to hard-code $VENDOR when building the package.
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| 09:38 | <gvy> vagrantc, i just told "build time" here 8)
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| 09:38 | <vagrantc> lets skip $V?ENDOR
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| 09:38 | <gvy> vagrantc, well, maybe you do the hook then as you see best fit? i think we're ok with any working solution :)
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| 09:39 | since we might just lose more time waving branches if pulling from ftp.linux.kiev.ua is that slow
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| 09:40 | was sore about that the last time :(
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| 09:42 | <vagrantc> gvy: well, i'd rather not have to detect $VENDOR at run-time ... seems easier to handle by installing at build-time
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| 09:43 | so ...
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| 09:43 | <gvy> vagrantc, we seem to have already agreed hardwiring is the way to do it :)
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| 09:43 | <vagrantc> if [ -f /usr/share/ltsp/functions-distro-specific ] ; then . /usr/share/ltsp/functions-distro-specific ; fi
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| 09:43 | <gvy> ok
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| 09:43 | <vagrantc> although i'm open to a better name ...
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| 09:44 | but that can go at the bottom of /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp-common-functions
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| 09:44 | <gvy> seems good enough
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| 09:44 | yup
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| 09:45 | <vagrantc> thus allowing you to override common functions without getting overly complicated.
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| 09:45 | <vagrantc> currently, i on;y see boolean_is_true in common functions
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| 09:46 | <gvy> vagrantc, led suggests "ltsp-vendor-functions" as more in line with "ltsp-common-functions"
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| 09:46 | <vagrantc> sounds good
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| 09:46 | <warren> so I replace the contents of /usr/share/ltsp/functions-distro-specific?
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| 09:47 | <gvy> yup
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| 09:47 | <vagrantc> warren: each distro can optionally include or not include the file ... thoughts ?
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| 09:47 | <warren> it is OK because it doesn't have distro names in the file/directory names
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| 09:47 | <vagrantc> the other idea i've had is to merely append to ltsp-common-functions at build time
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| 09:47 | <gvy> vagrantc, led started to write if [ -d ltsp-vendor-functions.d/ ]; then ... :) -- "just to be done with it"
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| 09:48 | <vagrantc> gvy: well, i'd like to avoid doing a ltsp-vendor-functions.d ... but that can easily be added in the ltsp-vendor-functions on a per-distro basis
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| 09:48 | avoid mandating it
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| 09:49 | <warren> vagrantc: I hope this function override thing doesn't go in until May at the earliest?
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| 09:49 | <vagrantc> warren: why?
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| 09:49 | <warren> vagrantc: I'm still pushing trunk directly into Fedora
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| 09:49 | <vagrantc> warren: you're not frozen yet?
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| 09:49 | <warren> well, frozen means different things here...
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| 09:49 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 09:49 | more like slushy?
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| 09:49 | <warren> vagrantc: ok, not THAT long, but I need at least a week
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| 09:50 | <vagrantc> warren: it's a trivial change...
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| 09:50 | <warren> if you're certain it wont break anything, I guess.
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| 09:50 | <gvy> warren, it doesn't break anything for you :)
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| 09:50 | <vagrantc> warren: it will result in one additional filesystem call if you don't actually use it.
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| 09:51 | <gvy> vagrantc, re .d -- reasonable, and if we find some day it's too widely implemented, then it's be time to pull upwards
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| 09:51 | (if ever)
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| 09:52 | <vagrantc> gvy: exactly.
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| 09:52 | gvy: last i looked, you had a custom run_parts_list function ... ?
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| 09:53 | <gvy> vagrantc, led says that was custom long ago, but he moved to common code by now
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| 09:55 | <vagrantc> it looked like my ugly hack for the fedora branch before warren started actively working on it
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| 09:55 | <gvy> ah
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| 09:56 | well, i don't remember who started the fedora adaptation effort but if that was you, my hat actually off
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| 09:56 | <vagrantc> committed and pushed
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| 09:56 | gvy: well, i did a quick and dirty "this builds a fedora chroot and in theory enables the initramfs to do network boot" proof of concept
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| 09:57 | <gvy> /nick led
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| 09:57 | <vagrantc> because people kept asking about it, and figured if someone who knew debian could get that much, then people who knew fedora could actually make it happen.
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| 09:57 | <warren> hmm, something changed in rawhide in the last week and broke LTSP
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| 09:57 | <gvy> "first it didn't fit us, but then some day i saw it's ok"
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| 09:57 | /nick gvy
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| 09:58 | warren, if you build images to test then build logs might help figure out the package difference
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| 09:58 | if not... then maybe upgrade logs but that's harder to me
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| 09:58 | <warren> gvy: hundreds of packages changed in the last week
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| 09:58 | <gvy> ah, slushy.
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| 09:59 | vlt has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:59 | <gvy> we use to do slushy freezes (like "is it freeze-freeze or freeze-freeze-freeze?" (c) qa@)
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| 09:59 | <warren> no, we just hit freeze
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| 09:59 | <gvy> as well :-/
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| 09:59 | <vagrantc> warren: what sort of breakage?
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| 09:59 | <gvy> ah, then wish you nice anti-cyclone :)
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| 10:00 | <warren> vagrantc: most seriously, it gets stuck during bootup before it gets to initscripts
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| 10:00 | <vagrantc> i guess i'll postpone my push to get ltsp_chroot functionality in ltsp-trunk before ubuntu and fedora totally freeze up
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| 10:00 | supreme has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:00 | <supreme> hi all
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| 10:00 | <warren> vagrantc: or rather until we finalize what we're pushing
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| 10:01 | <gvy> hi supreme
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| 10:01 | <vagrantc> i need to get new upstream versions of ltsp and ltspfs into debian before we start hitting some freeze cycles.
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| 10:01 | <supreme> somebody knows about 'Corrupted MAC on input' error?
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| 10:01 | <vagrantc> ldm, too, though i'm not much worried about that.
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| 10:02 | <warren> supreme: dude, I already told you what the problem might be last night.
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| 10:02 | <gvy> supreme, quick google seems to know something, i haven't hit that
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| 10:02 | <warren> supreme: you need to talk to your distro's kernel people
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| 10:02 | <vlt> Hello. Any idea where to find the time when a user has logged out? auth.log just shows me logins.
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| 10:03 | <supreme> warren, i asked again cause now there is more people than last night
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| 10:03 | <warren> supreme: your problem is not specific to LTSP
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| 10:03 | it is a kernel problem
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| 10:04 | <gvy> and quite old one it seems (2005 known)
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| 10:04 | <supreme> warren, i know, but somebody could help me here,... ok, whatever
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| 10:04 | <gvy> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=202076 ,
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| 10:04 | ?
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| 10:06 | <vagrantc> vlt: sounds like you're basically hit by: http://bugs.debian.org/471793 ... ?
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| 10:10 | <vlt> vagrantc: Hmmm, yes, seems to be exactly that :( Is there any skript that is executed on every (KDE) logout I could use?
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| 10:11 | <vagrantc> vlt: i don't know, sorry.
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| 10:15 | <supreme> vagrantc, have you ever used edubuntu as thin client server right?
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| 10:16 | <vagrantc> supreme: not once, no.
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| 10:16 | * vagrantc primarily uses and develops debian | |
| 10:16 | <supreme> ok
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| 10:17 | <vagrantc> there's a lot of similarities, so i can sometimes be helpful in that regard. but at the end of the day i try to pass the buck to ogra_cmpc if it's too hard for me :)
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| 10:20 | Q-FUNK has quit IRC | |
| 10:21 | <warren> supreme: stop fishing, I told you what the problem likely is, and none of the people are responsible for the broken component
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| 10:23 | <supreme> warren, im asking for edubuntu users cause I have to buy 2 servers and I must to ensure that it will work ok, im not asking for the MAC problem
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| 10:25 | * warren used /ignore for the first time ever. | |
| 10:28 | <vagrantc> supreme: there is an edubuntu channel, you might ask there.
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| 10:29 | <supreme> its curious since i got there: supreme: try #ltsp, they might be more help
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| 10:29 | lol
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| 10:29 | anyway,, i have to go
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| 10:29 | thanks, see you
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| 10:42 | <gvy> vagrantc, thanks for r689 :)
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| 12:11 | <johnny> i broke my chroot .. oops
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| 12:12 | warren, sup with that LDM_SESSION idea ?
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| 12:48 | <johnny> dberkholz, i removed almost all the overrides i did in the client chroot's /etc/lts.conf
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| 12:48 | i make CONFIGURE_X to false, and added the symlink for the default theme to ltsp (until we have a good gentoo theme)
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| 12:48 | so now we're only left with LDM_SESSION
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| 12:50 | if we want to remove that, we have to either add another elseif to ldm, or implement warren's idea
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| 12:51 | <Blinny> I don't want to file a bug if this is transient or already known - ltsp-build-client is broken in current Hardy packages - I have output if anyone needs it.
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| 12:52 | <laga> Blinny: how current are your packages?
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| 12:52 | Blinny: please post the output on a pastebin
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| 12:52 | !paste
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| 12:52 | <ltspbot> laga: Error: "paste" is not a valid command.
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| 12:52 | <laga> !pastebin
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| 12:52 | <ltspbot> laga: Error: "pastebin" is not a valid command.
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| 12:52 | <laga> stupid bot.
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| 12:52 | <Blinny> heh
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| 12:52 | <laga> use www.pastebin.ca or your favourite pastebin :)
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| 12:53 | <Blinny> As current as 'aptitude update && aptitude safe-upgrade' can make you.
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| 12:53 | <laga> Blinny: apt-cache policy ltsp-server?
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| 12:53 | <Blinny> http://pastebin.org/28792
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| 12:54 | apt-cache policy ltsp-server: http://pastebin.org/28793
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| 12:56 | <laga> Blinny: ok, you're up to date and that issue looks transient.. i guess you should wait a few hours and then try again
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| 12:56 | Blinny: and/or ping ogra
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| 12:56 | <Blinny> Right-O. Cheers.
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| 13:15 | <johnny> ok.. so.. my chroot probably installs from scratch now via ltsp-build-client :)
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| 13:15 | herson has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:15 | <johnny> i need to get my branch merged at some point, or at least put on launchpad somewhere
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| 13:16 | uggh.. NO.. i accidentally committed something i shouldn't have..
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| 13:18 | <StevenR> johnny: and that's why one uses version control :)
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| 13:19 | <johnny> obviously..
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| 13:19 | i rarely have to revert tho, so i dislike it
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| 13:20 | <herson> jammcq: You are here?
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| 13:27 | <johnny> dberkholz, are you about?
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| 13:57 | <Blinny> ogra: I assume you already know this, but ltsp-build-client is broken in current i386 Hardy packages -- output is here: http://pastebin.org/28792
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| 13:58 | <ogra> thats debbootstrap, not ltsp :)
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| 13:58 | i pinged the udev maintainer
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| 13:58 | when did that happen ? i talked to him ths afternoon
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| 14:00 | <Blinny> I just did that this afternoon.
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| 14:00 | Thanks.
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| 14:01 | <ogra> should be fixed (soon)
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| 14:01 | <Blinny> Not bothering me at all. Thank you.
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| 14:02 | <ogra> tanks for reporting :)
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| 14:12 | <dberkholz> johnny: yes
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| 14:13 | <johnny> had a question about how we handle XSESSION on gentoo
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| 14:13 | since i'm not wanting to modify LDM too much for gentoo than adding a elseif
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| 14:14 | <dberkholz> johnny: ok..
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| 14:15 | <johnny> if i do just LDM_SESSION="/etc/X11/Sessions/Xsession, it's just gonna give me twm
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| 14:16 | <johnny> atm i have Gnome in there hardcoded, since that's all i have here
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| 14:18 | <dberkholz> johnny: try /usr/lib64/X11/xdm/Xsession
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| 14:19 | <dberkholz> that one looks like it'll behave more like people expect
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| 14:20 | <johnny> i hope /usr/lib will work..
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| 14:21 | :)
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| 14:59 | <Q-FUNK> ogra_cmpc: is anyone looking into closig the libsals2 upgrade blocker?
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| 15:30 | <warren> asac: ogra: who is your pulseaudio maintainer?
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| 15:31 | <asac> ogra: luke?
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| 15:31 | <ogra> it ws crimsun for a while
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| 15:32 | but he suspended all work, pitti did a lot on pulse this cycle
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| 15:33 | <warren> so there's no consistent participator upstream?
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| 15:33 | <Q-FUNK> ograseems that hardy will release without -geode after all
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| 15:34 | ogra: unless you manage to convince vorlon to make an exception
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| 15:34 | <warren> asac: does the next ubuntu release use pulseaudio by default?
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| 15:34 | asac: (alsa emulated device as default too?)
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| 15:36 | <asac> warren: i try to stay as much out of sound as possible :) ... what i can say is that pulseaudio will be on by default
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| 15:36 | what is "alsa emulated device" ?
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| 15:37 | <ogra> Q-FUNK, did you fix the deps ?
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| 15:37 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: yup. waiting to be sponsored into debian and sync'ed
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| 15:38 | <ogra> <bryce> slangasek: btw, there is a sync request that's been in for -amd, that didn't make it in before the cut off (we've been testing the fix, but unfortunately whomever does syncs didn't get to it in time).
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| 15:38 | <slangasek> bryce: I'll have a look at all those goodies today/tomorrow
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| 15:38 | Q-FUNK, dont worry :)
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| 15:38 | <Q-FUNK> :)
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| 15:38 | there is a santa in scotland, after all
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| 15:38 | <vagrantc> and he drinks scotch
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| 15:38 | <ogra> seems maddog comlained to sabdfl directy on monday (they met somewhere)
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| 15:39 | <Q-FUNK> however, we'd first need to get it sponsored into debian NOW :)
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| 15:39 | <ogra> pfft
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| 15:39 | <Q-FUNK> yeah, maddog has been in touch with me too, over the last few days
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| 15:39 | <ogra> right
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| 15:40 | <Q-FUNK> I told him that it might be a good idea for Koolu to directly get involved with the launchapad bugs, rather thna blindly file support ticket at Canonical's commercial support team
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| 15:41 | I directly contacted him and other Kollu guys to point them to the bug where it's made obvious that the BIOS vendor they use on their hardware screwed up
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| 15:41 | bricode has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:41 | <Q-FUNK> and speaking of the devil ;)
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| 15:42 | bricode: nice of you to join us. we were actually discussing the geode driver issues
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| 15:42 | <bricode> me? :)
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| 15:42 | Well, I'm around now.
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| 15:43 | The award bios is *quite* broken.
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| 15:43 | <Q-FUNK> bricode: apparently, maddog's sermon with sabdfl had an effect. they will sync the -geode driver on time for the release (probably makign an exception to the freeze) and look into possibly missing patches for X core too.
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| 15:44 | bricode: it indeed is. the lintop guys noticed it too.
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| 15:44 | bricode: Insyde still is the most stable one. general software also got their act together, eventually.
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| 15:44 | <bricode> I'm looking at INT 15 stuff and it's either broken, or non existent.
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| 15:44 | <Q-FUNK> I wouldn't be suprised.
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| 15:45 | did the eon always use that brand of bios?
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| 15:45 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: Are the linutop guys using General in their Linutop2?
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| 15:45 | Q-FUNK: Seem to have. As long as we've been carrying them...about a year and a bit.
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| 15:45 | <Q-FUNK> they buy the exact same stuff as you guys, in china.
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| 15:45 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: The DTRI units used the Insyde, so I've been testing back and forth.
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| 15:46 | * bricode wonders if the Linutop guys know the ION has a limited life left. | |
| 15:46 | <Q-FUNK> I doubt that they do.
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| 15:47 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: The geode driver seems to be reasonably stable for me apart from the 800x600 default res.
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| 15:48 | <Q-FUNK> this being said, it looks like our dbe62 will end up with a CF socket and might even get an SODIMM socket too. you're all welcome to make further inquiries ;)
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| 15:48 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: sexy.
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| 15:48 | Q-FUNK: What about the lifespan of the whole Geode line?
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| 15:48 | <Q-FUNK> AMD gaurantees availability until 2012
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| 15:49 | <bricode> huh. That's a few years out.
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| 15:49 | <Q-FUNK> subject to an extension if the OLPC is a real hit
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| 15:49 | yup. 4 years.
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| 15:49 | but that's for the traditional GX/LX line
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| 15:50 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: Yeah, I was banking on the fact that OLPC would have been a homerun and that Geode supplies would be safe.
| |
| 15:50 | <Q-FUNK> they're merging two product lines, starting next year. we might end up being offered something based on recent athlon core instead.
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| 15:50 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: same power envelope?
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| 15:50 | <Q-FUNK> the whole thin client industry is
| |
| 15:51 | no and that's what worries me. nobody except VIA seems to have addressed the concerns of the thin client market adequately. however, VIA keeps on discontinuing their chipsets too often. absolutely unreliable supply line.
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| 15:51 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: I thought that the dbe62 platform finalized?
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| 15:52 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: I'm looking forward to the menlow chipsets, although everyone seems to be cramming them into those damn UMPC's. 100K chips manufactured in a day seems to be a reasonable supply...
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| 15:53 | <Q-FUNK> bricode: what we sent you was preproduction and, as I expected, the only good feedback we got was from the LTSP market. for the green workstation market, everyone pointed us to the ION as what they'd want.
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| 15:53 | we looked into menlow. it's a no-go. not a real x86 chipset.
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| 15:53 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: Why's that? Too much shaved off for power reasons?
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| 15:54 | <Q-FUNK> no longer compatible at code level
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| 15:54 | it really is a brand new architecture, half-way between ARM and x86.
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| 15:54 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: Huh. That's no good.
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| 15:54 | <Q-FUNK> it's not a low-power x86 at all.
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| 15:55 | it indeed is closer to x86 than to ARM, but still no longer a real pentium-compatible chipset.
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| 16:01 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: Interesting. Hence a bunch of funding to Canonical to develop Ubuntu Mobile...
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| 16:02 | <Q-FUNK> yup
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| 16:02 | that's my conclusion too
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| 16:03 | or how to save a chipset doomed to fail on the market
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| 16:04 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: So Geode and VIA. Any other options close by?
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| 16:05 | <Q-FUNK> bricode: anyhow, for the dbe62, we ended up refocusing the design. it was a hard sell, but I finally managed our investors to fund a complete redesign of the motherboard layout so that we can accomodate CF and SODIMM, while keeping essentially the same features
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| 16:06 | <mcfloppy> hello
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| 16:06 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: So with the SODIMM, will there still be onboard RAM?
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| 16:06 | <Q-FUNK> bricode: rumor has it that intel might have something closer down to earth by summer. I'll believe it when I see it.
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| 16:06 | bricode: no, we'd be completely dependant on the SODIMM
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| 16:06 | <mcfloppy> how can i test my ltsp from a running windows pc? is there a way to emulate a terminal?
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| 16:07 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: Will you have VGA support in the BIOS?
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| 16:08 | <Q-FUNK> we'll keep the "everythign soldered-on and welded shut" approach for the next 61 revision, which will be strictly for the thin client market. 62 will be a full motherboard redesing, oriented for the green desktop market - still, at the end of the day, both products with the same components - except for ram and mass storage.
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| 16:08 | bricode: 62 will use gsw bios
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| 16:09 | <Q-FUNK> however, the X driver is already scheduled to be upgraded with libDDC support
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| 16:09 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: CF for mass storage? or IDE?
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| 16:09 | Q-FUNK: Yeah, I saw that.
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| 16:10 | <Q-FUNK> CF
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| 16:11 | we still won't include a mini IDE disk, because we avoid rotating components
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| 16:11 | we're ging the SSD route, instead
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| 16:11 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: That's better. It's where the world's heading.
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| 16:12 | Q-FUNK: CF port internal? What are the timelines?
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| 16:14 | <Q-FUNK> yes, internal
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| 16:14 | we'd still rather assemble and bolt everything shut ourselves.
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| 16:15 | <johnny_> mcfloppy, use virtualbox and setup netboot
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| 16:15 | hey guys!
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| 16:19 | <bricode> Q-FUNK: Cool.
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| 16:49 | <mcfloppy> johnny thanks
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| 17:48 | <vagrantc> otavio: any thoughts regarding how we go about limiting the architectures for ltsp, ldm and ltspfs ?
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| 17:48 | otavio: i'm thinking the process should go something like ...
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| 17:49 | otavio: upload new packages with architecture: i386, amd64, powerpc, arm, armel
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| 17:49 | otavio: request that all the old versions be removed (ftp-masters?)
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| 17:57 | otavio: this is all regarding: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-ltsp-devel/2008-April/001341.html
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| 18:33 | <petre> evening all
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| 18:39 | <IRCzito> Guys, where jetpipe is launched on ltsp-client?
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| 18:40 | <vagrantc> IRCzito: linux distro and release?
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| 18:40 | <IRCzito> I want welp implement client printers on Fedora
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| 18:41 | The rigth is launch it by udev?
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| 18:41 | * vagrantc isn't sure how fedora handles it | |
| 18:41 | <IRCzito> or use some scripts on rc... or sysinitv
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| 18:42 | <vagrantc> definitely wanted to move in the direction of launching it from udev in general.
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| 18:42 | but haven't really gotten there yet, at least on debian.
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| 18:44 | <IRCzito> vagrantc: why not use cups on the client?
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| 18:46 | vagrantc: Today jetpipe work on ubuntu?
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| 18:49 | <vagrantc> IRCzito: i don't know where it works.
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| 18:49 | IRCzito: cups is a little heavy, but you can configure it manually, if you want.
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| 18:52 | so, to properly get ltspfs and cdpinger started from udev, i feel like we need to move the binaries into a new location, and write a wrapper script that doesn't restart itself.
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| 18:53 | er, doesn't start again if another is already running ... works for cdpinger ... not sure about proper behavior for ltspfsd
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| 18:53 | since it seems like ltspfsd starts one instance of itself for each mounted device...
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| 19:47 | <warren> asac: I'm going to be approaching Adobe at some point in the future about cooperating during testing of their next flash version in order to get rid of all the crashes that plague us
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| 19:47 | asac: could you join us from Debian/Ubuntu in some official capacity so we have more weight in our negotiations with them?
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| 19:47 | asac: (we're kind of in the same boat now)
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| 20:04 | <ace_suares> hi guys
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| 20:52 | <lns> hey ace_suares
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| 20:52 | <ace_suares> hi Ins
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| 20:53 | <lns> haha..everyone calls me Ins
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| 21:30 | <warren> cyberorg: who is suse's firefox maintainer?
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| 22:35 | <johnny> hey warren :)
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| 22:35 | <warren> hi
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| 22:35 | heading to sleep soon
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| 22:46 | <johnny> warren, thanks for making my life easier
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| 22:46 | !
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| 22:47 | <warren> johnny: huh?
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| 22:48 | in what way?
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| 22:48 | <johnny> the stuff you did to remove the debianisms :)
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| 22:48 | <warren> johnny: yeah, but now they're busy removing fedoraisms
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| 22:49 | and i'm not even done adding more
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| 22:49 | =)
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| 22:49 | <johnny> i'll have to stop you on that one :)
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| 22:49 | so.. i finally have a working install now
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| 22:50 | <warren> what distro are you?
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| 22:50 | * warren can't keep everyone straight | |
| 22:50 | <johnny> gentoo
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| 22:51 | my real deployment is on ubuntu tho
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| 22:51 | since ubuntu was already in place at the store mostly
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| 22:52 | <warren> I'm surprised anything I did was useful for non-Fedora
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| 22:52 | I don't remember what I did
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| 22:53 | <johnny> removed usages of update-alternatives
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| 22:53 | and dpkg --architecture, etc
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| 22:53 | <warren> I don't remember doing that
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| 22:53 | <johnny> that's what your blog says
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| 22:53 | <warren> and I realized today that something else in F9 changed breaking LTSP entirely
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| 22:53 | havne't been able to figure it out
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| 22:53 | =)
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| 22:54 | <johnny> ouch
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| 22:56 | <warren> oh. I think I know what it is.
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| 23:00 | <warren> sigh, this appears to be a last minute kernel regression
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| 23:05 | <johnny> :(
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| 23:37 | <warren> hmm, doesn't appear to be the client's kernel
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| 23:37 | just tried a dozen kernels going backwards
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