IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 31 January 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:03 | <lns> sup jammcq
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| 03:16 | <Nubae> good morning
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| 03:16 | ogra r u there?
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| 03:21 | well if you read this... I'm wondering about messagebus and haldaemon and whether they should be created normally in the postinst, because I dont have them when in /var/lib/dpkg/info, looks like it was just gdm that was created in ldap
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| 03:52 | right, good news is, its all working now... but... I get "Authentication Failed" on the gdm welcome screen
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| 03:55 | must be something to do with /etc/pam.d/gdm
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| 04:11 | heh... turns out apt-get install edubuntu-desktop didn't pull everything through first time... had to do it again, only gdm was properly installed... but at least everything goes through, even gdm login
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| 04:12 | no wonder ltsp-build-image was so fast
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| 04:12 | lol
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| 08:55 | <whizzer> I have just installed ltsp in ubuntu 7.10 server via apt-get install ltsp-server and ltsp-build-client. I set up the dhcp server, the thin client boots to a graphical login, however I cannot log in with any user it seems. help please?
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| 08:57 | it doesn't look like nfs is set up or running
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| 08:58 | that could be a problem i suppose...
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| 08:59 | <nikok> well.. according to my knowledge it has to be up and running 'cos the ltsp clients works... nfs shares the / to you client machines... slap me if i'm wrong
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| 09:00 | <whizzer> i see. i thought that might be part of the tftp image
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| 09:00 | but i only started reading about ltsp yesterday, so i am no expert
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| 09:01 | <cliebow_> whizzer no nfs necessary
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| 09:01 | <whizzer> okay
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| 09:02 | <cliebow_> gutsy uses a squashfs and nbd
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| 09:02 | <whizzer> what is nbd?
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| 09:02 | <cliebow_> probably you need to ltsp-update ssh-keys and ltsp-update-image..if you return to login
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| 09:03 | probably you need to ltsp-update-ssh-keys and ltsp-update-image..if you return to login
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| 09:04 | <whizzer> i think i have done that, but will do again now to make sure
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| 09:04 | <cliebow_> you DO get to a login screen?
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| 09:05 | <whizzer> yes
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| 09:05 | i type in credentials and it goes black for a second, then back to login screen
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| 09:05 | <cliebow_> yeah..sounds like your ssh keys
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| 09:05 | <whizzer> at console login i get Login incorrect
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| 09:06 | do i run those commands in the chroot, or on main server?
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| 09:06 | <cliebow_> main server with sudo
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| 09:07 | <whizzer> sshkeys after image? or does order matter?
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| 09:07 | <cliebow_> does matter..first fix your keys..then rebuild the image
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| 09:08 | it Will take a bit
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| 09:08 | <whizzer> okay, i ran update keys and it's working on the image
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| 09:08 | do i need to reboot or anything?
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| 09:08 | the client
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| 09:09 | <cliebow_> let us know..shouldnt need a reboot..except for the client
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| 09:09 | <whizzer> okay, perhaps that is the thing. i rebuilt keys before, but didn't reboot the client
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| 09:10 | <cliebow_> you have to rebuild the image before the change will take effect..
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| 09:10 | <whizzer> okay
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| 09:10 | gotcha
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| 09:11 | hmm. still no dice
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| 09:11 | <cliebow_> do you get anything in auth.log on server?
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| 09:12 | !seen sbalneav
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| 09:12 | <ltspbot> cliebow_: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 1 day, 23 hours, 14 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <sbalneav> someones sent folder didn't come a cross.
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| 09:12 | <cliebow_> let him out!!
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| 09:13 | <whizzer> Jan 31 10:06:33 HFSNM037000010 chage[11605]: changed password expiry for statd
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| 09:13 | Jan 31 10:15:16 HFSNM037000010 sshd[11960]: Accepted password for whizzer from 172.26.47.10 port 36290 ssh2
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| 09:13 | Jan 31 10:15:17 HFSNM037000010 sshd[11962]: pam_unix(ssh:session): session opened for user whizzer by (uid=0)
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| 09:13 | that is the thin client ip in the last two entries
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| 09:13 | or second to last at least
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| 09:13 | <cliebow_> perhaps ogra will chime in...
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| 09:14 | ohhh.he'd say check your .Xsession-errors
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| 09:14 | for that user..
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| 09:14 | <whizzer> nothing is written to the home directory in the chroot
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| 09:14 | <cliebow_> on your server
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| 09:15 | <whizzer> hmm
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| 09:15 | <cliebow_> since your xsession is there
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| 09:15 | <ogra> cliebow_, sshkeys tell your "this workstation is not authorized" as error message nowadays
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| 09:15 | whizzer, dod you install on top of ubuntu-server ?
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| 09:15 | <cliebow_> thank you ogra
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| 09:15 | <ogra> *did
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| 09:15 | <whizzer> ogra: yes, and i do not have x on the main server, is that the issue?
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| 09:15 | <cliebow_> ohhh..no x?
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| 09:15 | <ogra> whizzer, you dont need X but a desktop
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| 09:15 | <whizzer> i thought it was only in the chroot that it was needed
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| 09:15 | interesting
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| 09:16 | <ogra> ltsp5 operates via ssh ... essentially it does ssh -X user@server /etc/X11/Xsession
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| 09:16 | so there doesnt need to be any X on the server, but a desktop environment of any kind to log in to
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| 09:16 | <whizzer> i see, so what should I apt-get install on the server?
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| 09:17 | gnome or some such?
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| 09:17 | <cliebow_> like edubuntu-desktop?
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| 09:17 | <ogra> ubuntu-desktop would be the fully fledged ubuntu desktop
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| 09:17 | <whizzer> sorry i'm so uninformed
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| 09:17 | okay
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| 09:17 | <cliebow_> this all new formost of us
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| 09:18 | <whizzer> i am pretty familiar with general linux, but i am fairly new to ubuntu and completely new to ltsp
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| 09:18 | <cliebow_> it Rocks..
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| 09:19 | <whizzer> i like it alot so far :-)
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| 09:19 | apt-get is working on ubuntu-desktop now. i assume that will take a few minutes at least
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| 09:20 | <cliebow_> oh yeah..
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| 09:20 | <whizzer> i'm running the ltsp server on a vmware esx server virtual machine :-)
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| 09:21 | we have a gigantic vmware environment at my work
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| 09:21 | multi terabyte san storage backend, etc
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| 09:21 | <maginot> there are any special treatment for the dhcp server on the ltsp to set the gw ip to an ip address like 192.168.0.1 then it own host name ? My server is giving dhcp not only for the clients, but for the entire network but the other clients are having trouble with some connections and I saw that the default gw settled in the clients are ltsp-server.domain and not 192.168.0.1, even having seted in the dhcpd.conf "option routers 192.168.0.1"
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| 09:21 | <whizzer> fun stuff
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| 09:21 | <cliebow_> i have dedicated machines in my schools...never got anywhere in vmware
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| 09:22 | maginot:two nic setup?
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| 09:22 | <whizzer> cliebow_: vmware is mostly worthless besides for training exercises unless you buy hefty hardware and esx
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| 09:22 | <cliebow_> esx?
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| 09:22 | <maginot> cliebow_, no.. only one gigabyte
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| 09:22 | <whizzer> honestly, i'd prefer to use xen probably if work would allow
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| 09:22 | vmware has had 3 main product offerings
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| 09:23 | the desktop vmware software that you install on xp or linux
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| 09:23 | <cliebow_> maginot:wont option routers define your gateway for machines?
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| 09:23 | <whizzer> gsx server which allows for remote console connections but still isn't their flagship product
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| 09:23 | and esx server, which only runs on server class hardware and is it's own operating system
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| 09:24 | <cliebow_> oh i see..a commercial product of sorts?
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| 09:24 | <whizzer> (they say it is their own operating system at least, but it looks ever so much like redhat)
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| 09:24 | yes
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| 09:24 | <maginot> cliebow_, Im using "option routers 192.168.0.1" but the clients are geting ltsp-server.domainname
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| 09:25 | <cliebow_> use pastebot.ltsp.org to paste your dhcpd.conf//so all can have a look at it
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| 09:25 | <maginot> cliebow_, the thinclients are working everything, but the other standalone ubuntus I had are browsing the web but not being able to use msn and things like this
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| 09:25 | ok will paste
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| 09:26 | <whizzer> ogra: what does ltsp5 use the chroot environment for if it basically uses the account on the main server?
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| 09:27 | via ssh
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| 09:27 | for the graphical login?
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| 09:28 | <ogra> booting, X, login manager, sound and localdevice support
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| 09:29 | <whizzer> i see
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| 09:29 | so you don't need any user accounts in the chroot at all, besides the default ones
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| 09:29 | <ogra> there are no default ones :)
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| 09:29 | root is locked and there are no other accounts you could use ...
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| 09:29 | <whizzer> well, i meant for devices and daemons and such
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| 09:30 | right
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| 09:30 | <ogra> right, system accounts are created
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| 09:30 | but there is no way to log in to a client locally by default
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| 09:31 | (you can switch that on easily though if needed i.e. for debugging)
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| 09:31 | <whizzer> cool stuff
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| 09:31 | <Nubae> ogra should I be doing ltsp-update-kernels? or is that done automatically with ltsp-update-image?
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| 09:31 | <maginot> cliebow_, when I was going to paste I saw the problem, I have to routers entry ... one pointing to the ltsp server and other to the network route .... but now came to me another question ... there are anyproblem to set the route to the clients directly to the network router ?
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| 09:32 | <ltsppbot> "maginot" pasted "dhcpd.conf" (102 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/433
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| 09:34 | <cliebow_> maginot, for what it is worth your range should prob not incluse your static addresses
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| 09:35 | <cliebow_> if your router is 0.1 prob you should comment the 250
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| 09:35 | and restart dhcp
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| 09:36 | <maginot> cliebow_, but Im using deny unknown-clients; and setting every ip with a mac address
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| 09:38 | <cliebow_> i see it..then prob dont even need a rangehuh..
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| 09:40 | <maginot> hmmm yeah .. probably ...
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| 09:44 | <whizzer> so nbd is net boot daemon or some such? runs the tftp server?
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| 09:45 | <Nubae> network block device
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| 09:45 | <ogra> whizzer, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWithoutNFS
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| 09:45 | <cliebow_> no..network block device...mounts the squashfs image made from /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 09:45 | <ogra> Nubae, if you changed anything in the initramfs setup you should run ltsp-update-kernels ... else you wont need that
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| 09:46 | <Nubae> initramfs setup? like what
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| 09:46 | <ogra> modules etc
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| 09:46 | you shouldnt need it
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| 09:47 | <Nubae> ah ok, no then... I think I'm going to try this with a smaller chroot, maybe a non desktop fat chroot first, because this is impossible to debug
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| 09:52 | <whizzer> ahh, so the chroot is what get's built into the squashfs image, so it isn't really a chroot... just a stepping stone to creating the squashfs image
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| 09:54 | <cliebow_> yes yes
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| 09:54 | <whizzer> nifty :)
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| 09:55 | * whizzer taps fingers while ubuntu-desktop continues to install | |
| 09:55 | <cliebow_> ogra's brainchild
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| 09:55 | <whizzer> seem like very forward thinking decisions imho
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| 09:57 | <Nubae> weird... ltsp-build-client doesn't allow the shortcuts, but ltsp-build-image does :-)
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| 09:58 | <cliebow_> whizzer, things were slow with nfs..so ogra dreamed this up
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| 09:58 | <Nubae> so for ltsp-build-client you have to use --arch or --base and for ltsp-build-image you just use -a or -b
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| 10:03 | <whizzer> cliebow_: who *really* wants to use NFS anyway :-)
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| 10:03 | <cliebow_> yeah...i do..because i'm stuck in 4.2
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| 10:05 | <Blinny> whizzer: It's my only real choice for multi-homed setups.
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| 10:06 | <jammcq> g'morning kidz
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| 10:06 | <whizzer> i'm not saying it isn't the only viable option in some circumstances
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| 10:06 | <Blinny> jammcq: Mornin!
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| 10:06 | <whizzer> just saying who wouldn't leave it behind if they could
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| 10:06 | <Blinny> whizzer: But you're right. If I could avoid it I would.
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| 10:07 | <cliebow_> Hey jammcq!!!
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| 10:19 | <whizzer> well, i can login at the console now
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| 10:19 | rebooting client to try desktop again
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| 10:21 | hmm, still no dice at the graphical login :|
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| 10:25 | <Blinny> I received a strange error this morning when I tested booting my LTSP1225 box on an Ubuntu 64-bit Gutsy server.
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| 10:25 | four identical lines: "7.8.12000 request_module: runaway loop modprobe binfmt-464c"
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| 10:26 | <whizzer> ogra: besides installing ubuntu-desktop, is there any further server configuration I need? an .xinitrc or something in the user's home dir?
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| 10:29 | there is no /etc/X11/Xsession if ltsp5 attempts ssh -X user@server /etc/X11/Xsession
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| 10:29 | like you said earlier
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| 10:30 | <Nubae> blinny, sounds like its loading the image from the wrong nbd port
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| 10:30 | I run 64 bit, and have seen that happen before
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| 10:31 | <whizzer> lol, i should have started with installing the desktop version of ubuntu instead of server i suppose :-)
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| 10:31 | <cliebow_> xsession-errors??
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| 10:31 | <whizzer> cliebow_: there are no .x* files in the home dir
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| 10:31 | <Blinny> OK Nubae, thanks!
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| 10:33 | <cliebow_> whizzer:you might have to do a server reboot??
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| 10:33 | <whizzer> i can't imagine why
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| 10:34 | <Blinny> whizzer: To get X started
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| 10:34 | whizzer: I'd say 'init 5' but ubuntu does everything at 3 I think
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| 10:34 | <Nubae> is there some way to get the pxelinux to display verbose (not just take out quiet and splash)
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| 10:34 | ?
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| 10:34 | <whizzer> okay, i'll reboot
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| 10:35 | <Blinny> whizzer: I have trouble with the server-first or desktop-first idea too. My thought is 'server first' so you get longer LTS support.
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| 10:37 | <cliebow_> Blinny..make that a 2..iirc
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| 10:37 | <Blinny> cliebow_: I only remember thinking 'why in the hell...?' when I finally figured out why my services at runlevel 5 weren't starting (;
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| 10:38 | <cliebow_> hehe!!
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| 10:39 | <whizzer> i don't think i got xorg, just the desktop
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| 10:41 | <whizzer> perhaps i need to install xserver-xorg
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| 10:41 | ogra: seemed to say not though
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| 10:50 | <whizzer> that was it
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| 10:50 | i needed ubuntu-desktop and xserver-xorg. plus i need an .xsession file in the user's home
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| 10:52 | now i need to find out what goes in .xsession, lol
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| 10:54 | <cliebow_> it should create on the fly
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| 10:57 | <whizzer> should schmood
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| 11:05 | * whizzer does apt-get install gnome | |
| 11:05 | <whizzer> :|
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| 11:05 | * whizzer chants "work, work, work!" | |
| 11:07 | <whizzer> at least i get .xsession-errors now
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| 11:07 | <cliebow_> boy..that is being a pain
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| 11:07 | <whizzer> Xsession: X session started for whizzer at Thu Jan 31 12:11:08 EST 2008
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| 11:07 | Xsession: unable to start X session --- no "/home/whizzer/.xsession" file, no
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| 11:07 | "/home/whizzer/.Xsession" file, no session managers, no window managers, and no
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| 11:07 | terminal emulators found; aborting.
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| 11:09 | i'm confident that if i would have started with the desktop ubuntu install ltsp would have worked out of the box mostly
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| 11:09 | but this way i guess i learn what makes it work out of the box
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| 11:09 | so not all bad
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| 11:10 | baby steps
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| 11:10 | hehe
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| 11:15 | <cliebow_> whizzer, you are getting a gui login screen now on server?
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| 11:15 | <whizzer> i have been getting the gui login from the beginning
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| 11:16 | just nothing after i enter credentials
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| 11:16 | now i get the message i pasted from .xsession-errors on the screen when i log in
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| 11:18 | <cliebow_> i was thinking..on the server itself..
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| 11:18 | <whizzer> whew
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| 11:18 | got it now
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| 11:18 | <cliebow_> what did you do??
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| 11:19 | <whizzer> apt-get install ubuntu-desktop didn't help at all, but was the first thing i did
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| 11:19 | apt-get install xserver-xorg got me error messages saying no desktop found
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| 11:19 | apt-get install gnome got me logged into a desktop environment
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| 11:21 | <cliebow_> i dont get it...but what the heck do i know..
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| 11:21 | <whizzer> heh
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| 11:22 | i think ubuntu-desktop just adds a bunch of x apps that ubuntu likes to bundle with the desktop, but doesn't actually provide a desktop itself
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| 11:23 | i think ltsp needs Xorg in the main server environment, which is why adding it got me enough past the login to at least see error messages
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| 11:23 | <cliebow_> that "should" be one-stop shopping..ubuntu-desktop should have pulled in all dependencies
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| 11:23 | <whizzer> then when i added gnome, Xorg finally was able to find a desktop to load
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| 11:23 | yah, it wasn't though
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| 11:23 | i looked in /usr/bin after each. no xorg after ubuntu-desktop
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| 11:24 | <cliebow_> ogra will want to know..
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| 11:24 | <whizzer> and no session managers
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| 11:24 | not that i could find
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| 11:24 | now i have a gnome desktop running gimp for kicks, working well it looks like
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| 11:24 | <cliebow_> cool!'
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| 11:24 | <whizzer> where do files get saved when created through the thin client?
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| 11:24 | or are they not saved in any permanent fashion?
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| 11:25 | <cliebow_> Ohhh..we forgot to WOOT!!! when it worked
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| 11:25 | <whizzer> __ _____ ___ _____ _ _ _
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| 11:25 | \ \ / / _ \ / _ \_ _| | | |
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| 11:25 | \ \ /\ / / | | | | | || | | | | |
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| 11:25 | \ V V /| |_| | |_| || | |_|_|_|
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| 11:25 | \_/\_/ \___/ \___/ |_| (_|_|_)
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| 11:25 | | |
| 11:25 | <cliebow_> WHoa1
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| 11:25 | <whizzer> :)
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| 11:25 | i should be kicked for that prolly
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| 11:25 | hehe
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| 11:25 | <cliebow_> careful you
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| 11:26 | dont want to be on anyones short list..
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| 11:26 | <whizzer> true that
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| 11:27 | time for lunch, and thanks for starting me in the right direction
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| 11:27 | whizzer has left #ltsp | |
| 11:27 | <cliebow_> mistik1 will holler "Ohh my eyes!"
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| 11:27 | me too
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| 11:27 | be out for a while
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| 11:57 | <maginot> is there any way to prevent a user to overload the server ?
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| 12:00 | <cyberorg> maginot, ulimit, or preferably kick them hard
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| 12:01 | <johnny> it's not on purpose tho
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| 12:01 | firfox itself will do it
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| 12:01 | for everybody
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| 12:01 | here
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| 12:06 | <maginot> johnny, my clients uses java application, that is what in the most part of time occupies the top of processing ... but there are times when the java_vm process goes high and uses about 80 to 100% of cpu...
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| 12:07 | <maginot> and I started to fear that some user my have the power to crash the server
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| 12:09 | <PerfDave> That sounds like Java to me ;)
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| 12:09 | maginot: You could look at something like auto-nice daemon?
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| 12:09 | <maginot> PerfDave, first time Im heard about it ...
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| 12:10 | will take a look ...
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| 12:10 | <maginot> PerfDave, have you noticed any other issue with java taking the cpu usage to the limit ?
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| 12:12 | <PerfDave> maginot: It's Java, it's what it does. It eats your CPU and memory and then falls over.
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| 12:13 | <sutula> maginot: Any user can consume the CPU by writing a program that does nothing and burns CPU...I don't think this is necessarily a Java-only problem
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| 12:13 | * sutula has no love of Java, though | |
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| 12:18 | <maginot> I will study more about ulimit and implement I think it can help in the cpu usage problem
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| 12:51 | <maginot> there are any special thing to do to make ulimit work, like recompile kernel or something similar ?? The man page doesnt says to much... Im using inside a file that i created at /etc/initscript rebooted the machine but the ulimit -t 50 isnt working ...
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| 12:52 | * sutula thinks that's a distro-specific question | |
| 12:52 | <maginot> Hmmm
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| 12:52 | <johnny> you want it to work for all users?
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| 12:52 | <maginot> johnny, yep
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| 12:52 | <johnny> well there's autonice daemon and something else
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| 12:53 | and is old tho
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| 12:53 | there's got to be a more recent solution
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| 12:53 | atm.. my systems have a real user at the desktop..
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| 12:53 | <maginot> hmm I just heard the ulimit from here =D
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| 12:53 | <johnny> thinking about getting another machine..
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| 13:21 | <whizzer> ogra: just as an added note, installing ubuntu-desktop xserver-xorg and gnome on ubuntu server 7.10 still did not get gnome connected up with metacity (although metacity was installed). So the thin client login leads to a gnome desktop but with no window manager running
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| 19:30 | <tonyb2008> Can I make debian ltsp use XDMCP instead of ssh -X
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| 19:34 | <lns> tonyb2008, i *think* that's what the lts.conf option 'DIRECT_X = true' is for (might have the syntax wrong on that)
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| 19:36 | <tonyb2008> hmm
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| 21:31 | <jammcq> evening gents
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| 21:38 | <jcastro> hi jammcq
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