IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 17 August 2016 (all times are UTC)
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| 19:11 | <bennabiy> Does anyone have experience with wine in a thin client / fat client setup? I am sure a fat client would probably run better, but what is the best way to have a wine profile / environment shared by many users ?
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| 19:14 | <||cw> the same way as with many users on a single desktop
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| 19:14 | <bennabiy> how would you recommend? include it with the skel folder?
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| 19:14 | <||cw> but in general with wine, you don't. each user has their own emulated C drive
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| 19:14 | <bennabiy> yes, but I do not want each user to have to install mono gecko etc each time they start
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| 19:15 | I want the basic support for certain things already in place
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| 19:15 | <||cw> you might be able to put some default in skel, but in general it sets itself up on first run anyway
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| 19:15 | there's probably some wine global option, but that's more a wine question
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| 19:16 | <bennabiy> basically I do not want the user to have to install a bunch of things to get their app to work. My question is if I am doing this on a fat client, could I use an FSTAB entry in lts.conf to do a CoW type setup to have a RO base wine folder and each user customize their changes to it
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| 19:17 | I am planning on getting specifics from wine, but they will not know how to answer about the ltsp environment for fat client or thin clients
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| 19:52 | <alkisg> bennabiy: many configuration settings store the paths in absolute manner, so if you install something to /home/bennabiy/.wine/program, and you copy it to /home/user/.wine/program, then it will still try to access /home/bennabiy/.wine/program
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| 19:52 | Only specific apps can be made portableapps that can access relative settings
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| 19:53 | <bennabiy> What if I had a WINEPREFIX setup outside the home folder?
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| 19:53 | <alkisg> You don't want to share user settings
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| 19:53 | You want to share program code only
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| 19:53 | So that in general is doable for certain apps only, and you can put them anywhere then, e.g. here we put them in /usr/share/program
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| 19:54 | <alkisg> For fat clients, it would be possible to have a cow form of the WINEPREFIX that you describe, so that each user had his own view of that folder
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| 19:54 | But that doesn't work for thin clients
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| 19:55 | <bennabiy> yes, I would probably have to have two different setups for thin clients
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| 19:55 | but for fat clients, what would be the best way to make it work
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| 19:55 | <alkisg> For thin clients, each user would have to have a different wineprefix, which means a different installation of at least the configuration files
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| 19:55 | <bennabiy> I might get interrupted here, MAJOR thunderstorm coming through
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| 19:56 | <alkisg> Since you can't do it for both thins and fats in the same way, I would focus on putting all the portable apps in /opt or in /usr/share, installing them in the menus etc, like normal linux programs
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| 19:57 | And I would make scripts in the form of playonlinux for those that are per-user
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| 19:57 | In a few cases, we also made wrappers that initialized the user settings the first time the program was ran
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| 19:57 | <bennabiy> I am mostly looking at running people's USB stick portable apps
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| 19:58 | <alkisg> We currently have about 20-30 GB of such software, properly packaged in .deb format
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| 19:58 | <bennabiy> like thunderbird and such
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| 19:58 | wow
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| 19:58 | <alkisg> thunderbird under wine?!!
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| 19:58 | Isn't the native good enough?
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| 19:58 | <bennabiy> alkisg: I have people come through who are traveling through and only have their mailbox in a portableapps thunderbird profile
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| 19:58 | to install that locally for one use is a bit extreme
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| 19:59 | <alkisg> bennabiy: so? you can use the native app and a symlink or a wrapper etc
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| 19:59 | There's absolutely no reason to use wine there...
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| 19:59 | Their settings can still be in the usb stick
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| 19:59 | <bennabiy> no matter what version their datastore is on the stick?
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| 20:00 | <alkisg> Even if you needed to run multiple thunderbird versions, you shouldn't do it via wine, but via prefixes or chroots or lxc etc, native methods
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| 20:00 | <bennabiy> and how do you target each individual case that might have it in a different location within the root of the USB?
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| 20:01 | <alkisg> But in general thunderbird has been stable in its configuration for years
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| 20:01 | How are you going to do that with wine?
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| 20:01 | <bennabiy> yes, I am all for native, but not sure how to target all the variables
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| 20:01 | <alkisg> If it's a locally installed wine, how will you tell it to find the settings in whatever dir in the usb stick?
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| 20:01 | <bennabiy> It is already installed in the "PortableApps" app, which has their thunderbird installed
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| 20:02 | they just run their portableapps start menu
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| 20:02 | <alkisg> And it's already configured to use all those different locations?
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| 20:02 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 20:02 | it is designed for windows use
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| 20:02 | <alkisg> And how are you going to pick the portableapps configuration and put it to .wine?
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| 20:02 | <bennabiy> no need, just start the app
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| 20:02 | <alkisg> From the stick?
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| 20:02 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 20:03 | <alkisg> Then why were you looking to put them in a common wine folder?
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| 20:03 | Isn't that were the conversation started?
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| 20:03 | *where
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| 20:03 | It's a completely different thing, to tell the users "manage your own apps in your stick i don't care", and to "provide a global repository of apps"
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| 20:04 | <bennabiy> I do not need *those* settings in there... just the basics for being able to run certain apps
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| 20:04 | like the mono gecko fonts etc
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| 20:04 | basics like libraries for general app support
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| 20:05 | so that someone can come and run a windows app that *they* have and it might generally work
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| 20:05 | without being prompted to install a bunch of dependencies the first time they run it
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| 20:06 | I am trying to create a nice non-technical environment for travelers to use their sticks and check their mail etc
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| 20:06 | I am sorry for the confusion
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| 20:09 | Basically, I just want to have a default wineprefix with basic DLLs etc in place to support different apps,
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| 20:11 | but support that over fat clients
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| 20:37 | I am not too keen on supporting windows in general, but for those who that is what they have, I want to make a hospitable environment for them
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| 20:38 | My use case is a little different than the normal educational or work environment
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| 21:37 | <||cw> why wouldn't fat clients work normally? issues with nfs and/or sshfs?
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| 21:38 | bennabiy: is this really a common thing, non-technical people with portable apps on their usb sticks?
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| 21:39 | I'd say don't worry about it. provide a web kiosk and that's it. if they need more than that, you'll certainly have their own laptop, or logmein to their office desktop.
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| 21:39 | <alkisg> fat clients work fine, no issues with any fs in wine
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| 21:39 | <||cw> s/you/they/
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| 21:40 | <alkisg> wine uses system fonts, so they can be installed in /usr/share/fonts for all apps, even native ones
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| 21:49 | <bennabiy> like I said, we are not your usual use case
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| 21:49 | ||cw: we do have non technical people with USB sticks and without laptops
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| 21:49 | we are not a tech people
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| 21:49 | no smart devices etc
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| 21:50 | anyways, I will try with a fat client
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| 21:50 | waiting for one to arrive
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| 21:52 | * alkisg considers proposing http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-mini-pc/pp_367432.html as an alternative to pi3 for people asking for very cheap clients... | |
| 21:52 | <alkisg> Just 65 euros, everything included...
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| 21:53 | 1200 passmark score, not bad... considering pi3 scores less than 200...
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| 22:04 | !learn cheap-client as http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-mini-pc/pp_367432.html
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| 22:04 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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