IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 14 March 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:06 | <hector> hello
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| 00:07 | how do I verify I am running 5.0?
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| 00:13 | <johnny> depends on the distro i think
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| 00:19 | <johnny> is there a reason add_option doesn't let you set a default value for the option?
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| 00:25 | <johnny> if it takes args that is
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| 03:19 | <highvoltage> hi, in ltsp 5, where do I put my custom lts.conf in /var/lib/tftpboot again?
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| 03:27 | thanks, found it in the old lts.conf
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| 05:19 | <technofrood> I'm having problems with LTSP in a RIS enviorment, I have set the boot options in a reservation on hte windows dhcp server, my test machine picks up the reservation (gets the right ip) but it still boots from ris
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| 05:27 | <sep> guess you have to check those options again. you can also check in the leasefile what options the client actualy get from the server
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| 05:29 | <technofrood> Where would I find this leasefile?
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| 07:35 | <steph_> Hello, everybody! I've intalled LTSP / fresh Ubuntu just to see if I can configure my PC quickly. I had some problems last time and someone here told me to restart dhcp3-server. That's what I've done with not success. So I restarted my computer, and now my client is up. My question is: wich service/daemon do I have to restart if I don't want to reboot the server?
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| 07:36 | <ogra_cmpc> inetd and dhcpd
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| 07:36 | <steph_> I thought inetd was started by dhcp3-server?
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| 07:36 | * ogra_cmpc ponders to add a trigger for thet to ltsp-build-client | |
| 07:36 | <ogra_cmpc> nope
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| 07:37 | <steph_> oh. ok. thanks.
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| 07:37 | <ogra_cmpc> dhcpd runs standlaone and gives the client the ip and info where to pull the kernel via tftp
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| 07:37 | if the client has that info it asks for the kernel in the defined place it got from dhcp
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| 07:38 | (which would be the ltsp server)
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| 07:38 | inetd sits on the server and listens for tftp requests ...
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| 07:38 | if there comes one it firs up tftpd to server the kernel
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| 07:38 | *fires
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| 07:38 | *serve
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| 07:38 | <steph_> it seems logic ;)
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| 07:39 | thanks again. You do a great job.
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| 07:39 | <ogra_cmpc> kernle gets unpackaed, loads initramfs from the same place via tftp and starts booting
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| 07:39 | :)
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| 07:39 | i like to have happy users :)
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| 07:41 | <steph_> Are you the main developper?
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| 07:41 | <ogra_cmpc> i was one of the three for two years ...
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| 07:41 | we changed to team maintenance when fedora enetered the team
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| 07:43 | <tarzeau> did someone look that libflashsupport gets into debian?
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| 07:45 | <ogra_cmpc> no idesa
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| 07:51 | <ogra_cmpc> tarzeau, it would be trivial to pull the sourcepackage from ubuntu though
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| 07:51 | <tarzeau> ogra_cmpc: i know, but someone needs to do it
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| 07:51 | <ogra_cmpc> file an ITP bug :)
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| 07:52 | i'd be happy if we could only sync it next release
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| 07:52 | <tarzeau> there's already one http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=449037
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| 07:53 | <ogra_cmpc> ah
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| 07:53 | well, then someone will care at some point
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| 07:54 | <cdealer> good morning. When a user logout the server stays with at least 3 processes still open for that user... is there any way so when the user logoff all his processes get kill ? Like a pkill -u ${USER} ? normally gconfd2 14, dbus-daemon, bonobo and gnome-vfs-2.0 are some processes that stays open ...
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| 07:55 | <tarzeau> cdealer: wdm can do that. i'm looking for the same for ldm too
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| 07:55 | <ogra_cmpc> gconfd shouldnt do anty harm ...
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| 07:55 | <ogra_cmpc> dbus will though
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| 07:55 | <cdealer> ogra_cmpc, but when the user logout isnt to all his processes get kill ?
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| 07:56 | <ogra_cmpc> ldm does a kill -9 ${PPID}
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| 07:56 | <tarzeau> cdealer: you don't want to kill all processes of a user, some users run some stuff in background (screen and stuff)
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| 07:56 | <ogra_cmpc> which kills x-session-manager
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| 07:57 | <cdealer> other thing that keeps happen is zombie processes, that Im running a 15minutes cron to kill all zombies parents, because this zombies are making my server loadaverge after some days up to something like 15 to 19
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| 07:57 | <tarzeau> you can't kill zombies
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| 07:57 | <ogra_cmpc> these are dbus and gnome bugs ... all known and still not fixed properly
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| 07:57 | <cdealer> tarzeau, not, but I can kill the main process
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| 07:57 | <ogra_cmpc> zombies dont take any ressources\
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| 07:57 | <laga> just your brains
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| 07:57 | <ogra_cmpc> they are just dead leftovers in the processlist
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| 07:58 | <cdealer> ogra_cmpc, well .. I can assure you that when we have about 15 zombies our load average was very high, and after killing this parents the load drops drastically
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| 07:59 | <ogra_cmpc> well tell that to a kernel guy :)
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| 07:59 | <hector> Hi, a good day to all!!
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| 07:59 | :-)
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| 07:59 | <ogra_cmpc> technically there is no way for a zombie to eqat any resources
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| 08:00 | <ogra_cmpc> if your parent process does a waitpid or so and hits a zombie that might indeed well raise the load
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| 08:00 | <hector> What is wrong when LTSP gets stuck right after it starts the multi sessions?
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| 08:00 | <cdealer> ogra_cmpc, maybe his parent is making the load average comes high ? Because was easily visible, in the same time we killed all zombies (ok, his parents) the load average droped from 8 to 2, then 1, then 0.7 then it stays with about 1~2 of load average...
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| 08:00 | <ogra_cmpc> but that means you need to fix the calling app (likely caused by whatever is your session manager)
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| 08:01 | <hector> Thus, boots, finds dhcp, loads the kernel, does a lot of things with USB, Mouse, etc, then "starts multi sessions" and nada....
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| 08:01 | * ogra_cmpc never heard of that message | |
| 08:01 | <hector> What do I need to check?
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| 08:01 | <ogra_cmpc> hector, is that ancient ltsp 4.2 stuff
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| 08:02 | <hector> yes, I am sorry, LTSPADMIN defaults to 4.2
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| 08:02 | I downloaded 5.0, will install today.
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| 08:02 | <ogra_cmpc> nobody touched tat since two years
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| 08:02 | <cdealer> ogra_cmpc, other thing I notice is the server performance with the users... if we do everyday a reboot the server never get overloaded but after 4, 5 days without a reboot the server comes to be very unstable.... any suggestion about what may be happening ?
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| 08:03 | <ogra_cmpc> so ymmv for getting support for it ... you need to hang around a while here to find someone knowing the old stuff
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| 08:03 | <hector> Ok, I am new to LTSP.
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| 08:03 | No, I am moving to LTSP 5.0
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| 08:03 | <ogra_cmpc> cdealer, no ... look for more leftover processes etc
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| 08:03 | htop is a good tool to find detailed infop about procs
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| 08:03 | <hector> I just need a few pointers and will listen to this channel for awhile.
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| 08:04 | Is there a quick way to get 5.0 up and running?
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| 08:04 | <ogra_cmpc> hector, what distro are you using ?
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| 08:04 | <hector> Fedora, Debian, Mepis...
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| 08:04 | <cdealer> ogra_cmpc, yeah, this is way Im very concerned about left processes ...
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| 08:04 | <ogra_cmpc> !debian
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| 08:04 | <ltspbot> ogra_cmpc: "debian" is is a GNU/Linux based operating system that makes an excellent LTSP server. You can find it at http://www.debian.org. for information about LTSP on debian see http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
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| 08:04 | <ogra_cmpc> !ubuntu
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| 08:04 | <hector> I think debian is the best also
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| 08:04 | <ltspbot> ogra_cmpc: "ubuntu" is a Debian based GNU/Linux distrubution that includes a Ubuntu specific version of LTSP. It can be found at http://www.ubuntulinux.org. to install ltsp on ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
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| 08:05 | <ogra_cmpc> hector, these two are the best wrt LTSP5 atm
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| 08:05 | ubuntu a bit ahead since ltsp5 comes from there
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| 08:05 | <hector> wrt and atm, explain please
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| 08:05 | <ogra_cmpc> with regard to
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| 08:05 | at the moment
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| 08:05 | <hector> It has been so long since I chat.
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| 08:05 | :-(
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| 08:05 | * ogra_cmpc is way to used to abbrev. | |
| 08:06 | <cdealer> wtf can explain most of the abbreviations... =D
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| 08:06 | <ogra_cmpc> its a bad habit of lazy typers
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| 08:06 | <laga> zomg
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| 08:06 | <ogra_cmpc> lol
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| 08:06 | <hector> lol
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| 08:06 | <laga> wtfbbkthxbye ;)
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| 08:07 | <ogra_cmpc> bb ?
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| 08:08 | <cdealer> O.o
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| 08:08 | MOST ... not every crazy abbrev lol ;)
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| 08:08 | <laga> s/bb/bbq/ ;)
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| 08:08 | <ogra_cmpc> ah
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| 08:09 | <hector> i c perl
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| 08:09 | Correct me if I am wrong, please
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| 08:09 | <cdealer> ogra_cmpc, have you notice any other problem related with no rebooted ltsp boxes?
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| 08:10 | <hector> I will install Ubuntu LTSP on my Debian server, and "voila"??
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| 08:10 | <cdealer> hector, like that... yeah
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| 08:10 | hector, is almost telepathy
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| 08:11 | <hector> This won't affect the Webserver in any way?
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| 08:11 | <steph_> how can I do a mass configuration for client's desktop ( let say for 50 computers)?
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| 08:11 | <hector> You see my test-box is fedora, My debian is more production.
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| 08:12 | People r using it intensely.
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| 08:14 | <ogra_cmpc> hector, that wont work, you can only instal debians ltsp on debian and ubuntus ltsp in ubuntu
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| 08:15 | <steph_> I know sabayon, but I think I'm doing something wrong.
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| 08:15 | <hector> Thus, I need to make my test-box debian, for my to learn LTSP, before deploying
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| 08:15 | s/my/me
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| 08:15 | <ogra_cmpc> ltsp5 is ditro specific, it uses the ditros packages and setup tools to build your thin client setup
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| 08:15 | so you can only use the one thats included with the distro you use
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| 08:16 | if you have a debian machine and are familiar with it, use debians ltsp
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| 08:16 | <hector> apt-get ltsp.....
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| 08:16 | <ogra_cmpc> !debian
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| 08:16 | <ltspbot> ogra_cmpc: "debian" is is a GNU/Linux based operating system that makes an excellent LTSP server. You can find it at http://www.debian.org. for information about LTSP on debian see http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
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| 08:16 | <ogra_cmpc> see the howto in the bot reply above
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| 08:16 | of if you want to use ubuntu
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| 08:16 | !ubuntu
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| 08:16 | <ltspbot> ogra_cmpc: "ubuntu" is a Debian based GNU/Linux distrubution that includes a Ubuntu specific version of LTSP. It can be found at http://www.ubuntulinux.org. to install ltsp on ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
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| 08:17 | <hector> Yes, I have been reading all those and have decided defintely to use DEBIAN as a server, and Ububtu as the client.
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| 08:17 | <ogra_cmpc> the easiest to get ltsp out of the box preinstalled is edubuntu at the moment
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| 08:17 | you cant mix the distros
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| 08:17 | debian needs a debian client
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| 08:17 | <hector> Yes, I was thing of installing edubuntu on my testbox.
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| 08:18 | <ogra_cmpc> and ubuntu the ubuntu one
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| 08:19 | <ogra_cmpc_> hrm
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| 08:19 | cappy network
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| 08:20 | if your deployment can wait a month ... i'm just done with integrating ltsp into the ubuntu cd (same implementation edubuntu uses) but thats for the april release which is not beta yet
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| 08:20 | so you could help me testing :)
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| 08:20 | <hector> would love to, but I need to get this LTSP working asap.
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| 08:20 | <ogra_cmpc_> ah
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| 08:20 | <hector> Without breaking current network components.
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| 08:21 | I am concerned that if I install LTSP on my debian server, that something could happen.
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| 08:21 | Because, dhcpd, tftpd, nfs, and other services.
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| 08:21 | Or am I just too paranoid?
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| 08:21 | <laga> use a virtual machine?
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| 08:22 | <ogra_cmpc_> tftp and nfs wont do any harm (apart from opening ports to the net)
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| 08:22 | <hector> ok, so dhcpd?
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| 08:22 | <ogra_cmpc_> dhcp can get tricky, sine you cant run two dhcp servers in one network if you want to do netbooting
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| 08:22 | <hector> What I did last night, was isolate just my fedora box with one thin client.
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| 08:22 | <laga> you can do that, but it's not straightforward
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| 08:23 | <ogra_cmpc_> totally not
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| 08:23 | and i wouldnt recommend it to anyone
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| 08:23 | <hector> You see, I had issues with 2 dhcp running on the network, and I would get gfragmented packets
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| 08:23 | <ogra_cmpc_> right
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| 08:23 | <hector> Thus, I isolate, and the thin client booted, up to the freezing, becuase of LTSP 4.2
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| 08:24 | Ok, this weekend I would like to tackle this issue.
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| 08:24 | LTSP 5.0 & Debian
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| 08:24 | My only issue is dhcpd
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| 08:24 | <ogra_cmpc_> if you test edubuntu, just make sure to have two NICs in the server, it will pick the one not connected to a gateway to run ltsp on
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| 08:24 | and leave the other interface alone
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| 08:25 | so the ltsp dhcpd only runs on the thin client network
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| 08:25 | <hector> The only 2 NIC server, is y debian server.
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| 08:25 | I will not change the distro there.
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| 08:26 | <hector> I have one testbox, currently fedora.
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| 08:26 | I am willing to try LTSP 5.0 on it.
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| 08:26 | What do you think.
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| 08:26 | Then move to the debian server.
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| 08:27 | <laga> ogra_cmpc_: btw, how did you test/debug the ltsp-client-builder udeb? i'm not sure how i''m suppose to hack on d-i..
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| 08:27 | <hector> brb
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| 08:29 | <laga> hector: LTSP 5.0 is very distribution-specific. you can't really "move" from fedora to debian. LTSP on fedora basically installs a second fedora system to boot the clients and does fedora-specific things to boot the clients.
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| 08:30 | hector: on debian, LTSP does other stuff than on fedora.
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| 08:31 | <tarzeau> aha?
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| 08:31 | <laga> tarzeau: that's my impression at least ;)
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| 08:31 | <tarzeau> i don't know. i got debian here
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| 08:32 | <laga> some things like LDM are (mostly) distribution independent, but that's it
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| 08:32 | <ogra_cmpc__> ltspfs as well
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| 08:32 | and if we ever manage to split out jetpipe then that too
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| 08:35 | <tarzeau> what's jetpipe good for?
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| 08:35 | <steph_> ...and how can I change login screen on clients to a default language?
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| 08:35 | <ogra_cmpc__> it replaces lp_server
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| 08:35 | <ogra_cmpc__> steph_, you cant ... ldm"s ui isnt translated
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| 08:36 | you could recompile it ... effectively its only five strings you need to change
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| 08:36 | <steph_> you could teach me ;)
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| 08:36 | <hector> laga, I am back, and thanks for your advice.
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| 08:37 | <laga> ogra_cmpc__: any advice on ltsp-client-builder?
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| 08:37 | <hector> Is it straightforward to do LTSP 5.0 on debian?
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| 08:38 | If it is an easy install and configure, I can just put it on the production Debian server.
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| 08:38 | <hector> My biggest concern is DHCPD
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| 08:39 | currently, my dsl router is the DHCP server on the network, everything connects and finds the gateway, my Macbook included.
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| 08:39 | <ogra_cmpc__> hector, dunno if that got through
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| 08:39 | <ogra_cmpc_> if you test edubuntu, just make sure to have two NICs in the server, it will pick the one not connected to a gateway to run ltsp on
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| 08:39 | <ogra_cmpc_> and leave the other interface alone
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| 08:39 | <ogra_cmpc_> so the ltsp dhcpd only runs on the thin client network
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| 08:39 | that will prevent all possible probs
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| 08:42 | <hector> Can't I just put it on the debian server?
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| 08:42 | What could possibly happen?
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| 08:43 | I want to have an easy install and configure, not testing edubuntu, or fedora, lets go straight to debian
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| 08:43 | would it be difficult to accomplish this?
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| 08:43 | <laga> you can put LTSP on debain
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| 08:43 | debian*
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| 08:44 | <hector> I am willing to reconfigure my DHCP process.
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| 08:44 | Is it tough to accomplish, or just a breeze?
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| 08:44 | :-)
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| 08:45 | <laga> i have never used LTSP on debian
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| 08:45 | <laga> i have never used LTSP on debian
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| 08:45 | <hector__> ogra, what do you think?
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| 08:46 | <mnemoc> "Check out Ubuntu and Debian for awesome integration" <--- from the $topic of the channel
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| 08:47 | <hector__> Yes, I read that, and am willing to try.
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| 08:47 | I just need a few pointers, before diving in.
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| 08:47 | <laga> !debian
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| 08:47 | <ltspbot> laga: "debian" is is a GNU/Linux based operating system that makes an excellent LTSP server. You can find it at http://www.debian.org. for information about LTSP on debian see http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
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| 08:47 | <hector__> got it!
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| 08:47 | * ogra_cmpc__ has never tried ltsp ion debian either, but the howto should guide you through | |
| 08:47 | * laga has never actually used LTSP :/ | |
| 08:48 | <hector__> wow....
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| 08:49 | <hector__> the debian server can do it all in one box? NFS, TFTP, DHCPD, HTTPD, LTSP, etc, one a 2NIC interface
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| 08:49 | That is my concern.
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| 08:49 | :-)
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| 08:49 | <hector__> One box, 2 NIC, debian server distro.
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| 08:50 | <laga> yes, if you configure it appropriately
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| 08:50 | <hector__> Then install configure all these services.
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| 08:50 | Has anyone tried this yet?
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| 08:50 | One box, does it all.
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| 08:50 | <laga> if it's anything like ubuntu's LTSP, you just have to configure the second NIC to have a different subnet and tell the DHCP to use that interface (by configuring it for that netowkr)
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| 08:50 | <hector__> make me :-)
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| 08:50 | <laga> network*
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| 08:51 | <hector__> brb
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| 08:55 | <steph_> ogra_cmpc: There is a symlink (/opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/default) to /etc/alternatives/ldm-theme (wich is not there). I'm still looking for a ldm with a different language. Could it be the problem?
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| 09:05 | <hector__> hi
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| 09:07 | <hector__> ogra, I have this link for you to comment on:
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| 09:07 | http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5TarballInstructions
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| 09:08 | Installing it on my Fedora test-box, just to see it working.
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| 09:08 | What do you think?
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| 09:08 | laga?
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| 09:08 | anyone?
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| 09:10 | ltspbot?
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| 09:10 | <laga> i dont think anything :)
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| 09:11 | <hector__> oh, ok.
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| 09:11 | :(
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| 09:12 | <laga> if it works then it's good.. but i dont see the advantage because fedora already works with LTSP as far as i know.
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| 09:12 | listen, nobody here is going to read the manual to you or walk you through the process of setting up LTSP. there's lots of documentation. just decide what you want to do, follow the documentation and ask if there's a problem.
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| 09:12 | if you're afraid of breaking your system, get a backup and/or set it up in a virtual machine first
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| 09:12 | <hector__> do u have to say that?
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| 09:13 | what do u think i have been doing, before joining this channel?
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| 09:13 | I can just use a testbox.
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| 09:13 | No need for virtual.
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| 09:13 | <laga> then do it :)
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| 09:14 | <hector__> hey, easy man.
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| 09:14 | I will do it, just needed a few pointers.
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| 09:14 | Don't have a cow.
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| 09:14 | :-)
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| 09:14 | a good day to you.
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| 09:14 | hector__ has left #ltsp | |
| 09:14 | <laga> i'm not getting mad, you just have been asking the same stuff over and over ;)
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| 09:15 | <ogra_cmpc__> hector__, the tarballs are not a good idea
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| 09:16 | prpplague has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:16 | <laga> he's already gone..
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| 09:17 | <mareva> can someone please offer a pointer ?, I am tring to limit the choice of session type availble to users at login (using LTSP 5 + Edubuntu)
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| 09:22 | <cdealer> some users complain that the mouse is doing a dual click (is this the right word?) when they only click on time, this is happen only with ltsp clients... what is happening ??
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| 09:23 | <mareva> can someone please offer a pointer ?, I am tring to limit the choice of session type availble to users at login (using LTSP 5 + Edubuntu)
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| 09:24 | prpplague has left #ltsp | |
| 09:26 | <ogra_cmpc__> mareva, what sessions do you see ?
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| 09:27 | krishna_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:28 | <mareva> I can see gnome, failsafe options, etc and KDE, I want to make use of kiosk and would therefore prefer to limit my users choice to KDE
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| 09:29 | <Gadi> cdealer: LTSP 4.2?
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| 09:29 | <ogra_cmpc__> mareva, ltspfsd on the server reads what update-laternatives --list x-session-manager returns
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| 09:30 | mareva, you could hack up ltspfsd to just return a static line for one session type (note that failsafe is hardcoded, you cant get rid of it easily)
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| 09:30 | <cdealer> Gadi, no, 5 on gutsy
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| 09:34 | <mareva> ogra_cmpc__, I am trying to provide a solution for local community based charity, but as there will be public access to this network I want to limit the opportunities for mischief by locking down as much unnecessary stuff as possible.
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| 09:34 | <ogra_cmpc__> right
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| 09:35 | telnet localhost 9571
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| 09:35 | that shows you the return values of ldminfod
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| 09:35 | the code is a simple python script
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| 09:35 | <Gadi> cdealer: on the ltsp side, as long as you are *not* specifying any X_MOUSE_ options, it should be setup properly. The other place I would check is the configuration of the preferences on the desktop for Mouse
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| 09:35 | <mareva> ogra_cmpc__, am I missing perhaps a better angle on this problem ?
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| 09:36 | ogra_cmpc__, thank you
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| 09:37 | <ogra_cmpc__> mareva, newer versions of ldminfod use the .desktop files in /usr/share/xsessions/ that will make it easier for you (just remove what you dont want listed)
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| 09:37 | ogra_cmpc__ is now known as ogra_cmpc | |
| 09:38 | <mareva> ogra_cmpc__, have you any idea when this is likely to be in use ?
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| 09:39 | <ogra_cmpc> ??
| |
| 09:39 | oh
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| 09:39 | when ...
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| 09:39 | i read why :)
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| 09:39 | with hardy
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| 09:39 | <mareva> :-)
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| 09:40 | thanks
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| 09:41 | <Gadi> should be a drop in replace, tho, no?
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| 09:41 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/annotate/wtogami%40redhat.com-20080314042212-j53i963jonr38i1l?file_id=ldminfod-20060906010354-sxxnswd9iz5oimk6-1
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| 09:41 | Topslack has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:43 | Blinny has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:51 | <ogra_cmpc> yes
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| 09:52 | bah, that thing got ugly... i never intended that it would become that complex
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| 09:52 | but lots of the noce simple code in ltsp did ... sdaly
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| 09:52 | *nice
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| 09:57 | makghosh has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:02 | Pascal_1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:02 | <Pascal_1> hello
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| 10:03 | i come back again with the same question : anybody use pam_mount with thin client ? i can make it works with ssh (thin client connection) mount share works fine but i've got problem with umount
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| 10:04 | <Gadi> Pascal_1: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WinIntegration#pam_mount_conf_and_LDM_ssh
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| 10:04 | <Pascal_1> hmm i try this :-(
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| 10:05 | <Gadi> try changing smb to cifs
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| 10:05 | <Pascal_1> i try again
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| 10:05 | ok i try the 2
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| 10:06 | <rjune_> !f
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| 10:06 | <ltspbot> rjune_: Error: "f" is not a valid command.
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| 10:06 | <rjune_> !g
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| 10:06 | <ltspbot> rjune_: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 10:06 | <Gadi> juney!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 10:08 | <rjune_> LOL
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| 10:10 | <Pascal_1> with cifs it doesnt work
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| 10:10 | you think i had to try with cifs and the link you gave me ?
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| 10:11 | <Gadi> Pascal_1: did you set: pmvarrun /bin/true
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| 10:11 | <Pascal_1> no i try first with cifs
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| 10:11 | now i try with the link you gave me
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| 10:11 | <Gadi> set that, and: rm /var/run/pam_mount/*
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| 10:12 | <Pascal_1> but the problem i meet is : "pam_mount(misc.c:358) error setting uid to 0"
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| 10:12 | but itry
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| 10:13 | <Gadi> are you logging in as root?
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| 10:13 | do not
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| 10:14 | <Pascal_1> ??
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| 10:14 | what you mean
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| 10:15 | i login as an ldap user samba share is correctly mounted on logging but not unmounted on loggout
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| 10:15 | <Gadi> "pam_mount(misc.c:358) error setting uid to 0" suggestes you are logging in as root
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| 10:16 | but, if you added pam_mount o common-*, then it was probably when you sudo ;)
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| 10:16 | <Pascal_1> yes it's the problem
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| 10:16 | it mount samba share as root even i'm a normal user
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| 10:17 | <Gadi> then you set up pam_mount with the wrong options
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| 10:17 | <steph_> How can I specify a default desktop environnement for all users?
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| 10:17 | <Pascal_1> gadi it's seem to be the normal fonctionnement of pam_mount
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| 10:17 | Gadi, let's have a look here http://pastebin.fr/1196
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| 10:17 | <Gadi> Pascal_1: only if you don't specify uid=&
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| 10:18 | <Pascal_1> here is the line in my pam_mount config file volume * smbfs 192.168.39.248 & ~/&'_SIOUX' dmask=0711 - -
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| 10:19 | <ogra_cmpc> steph_, that was ubuntu or debian, right ?
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| 10:19 | <Gadi> add: uid=&
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| 10:19 | so: dmask=0711,uid=&
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| 10:19 | <Pascal_1> i try
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| 10:19 | <Gadi> prolly should do gid=& too
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| 10:19 | so: dmask=0751,uid=&,gid=&
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| 10:20 | <steph_> ogra_cmpc: right
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| 10:20 | <Pascal_1> volume * smbfs 192.168.39.248 & ~/&'_SIOUX' dmask=0751,uid=&,gid=& - -
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| 10:20 | ??
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| 10:20 | <ogra_cmpc> steph_, sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager
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| 10:20 | that will let you select the system default
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| 10:21 | <Gadi> Pascal_1: right
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| 10:21 | * ogra_cmpc just heard that fedora switched to the debian alternatives system ... | |
| 10:21 | <Pascal_1> gadi it doesnt works
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| 10:22 | <Gadi> Pascal_1: at all? or it still mounts as root
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| 10:22 | <Pascal_1> wait i look
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| 10:22 | <Gadi> also, what are the permissions/ownership of the mountpoint?
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| 10:22 | they must be user-owned
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| 10:23 | <Pascal_1> gid=& is wrong
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| 10:24 | the mountpoint is created by pam_mount
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| 10:24 | <Gadi> ok
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| 10:25 | I guess you dont have groups with same names as user
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| 10:25 | is this with AD?
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| 10:25 | if so, you can do: gid="Domain Users"
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| 10:25 | <Pascal_1> it's an ldap directory
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| 10:26 | <Gadi> ok
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| 10:26 | <Pascal_1> http://pastebin.fr/1197
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| 10:26 | <Gadi> well, whatever default group the user is in
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| 10:27 | <Pascal_1> biatoss
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| 10:27 | as in the pastebin
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| 10:29 | <Gadi> have you tried with: UsePrivilegeSeparation yes in sshd_config?
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| 10:29 | <ogra_cmpc> shouldnt that be "no" rather ?
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| 10:30 | <Gadi> well, it depends how you skin the cat
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| 10:30 | <ogra_cmpc> i think yes is the upstream default
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| 10:30 | <Pascal_1> i test the two
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| 10:30 | my first pastebin
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| 10:30 | <Gadi> you may also need to add "user" to the options
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| 10:30 | so: uid=&,user
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| 10:30 | <Pascal_1> what options ?
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| 10:30 | ok
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| 10:30 | for gid i write nothong ?
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| 10:30 | nothing
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| 10:30 | <Gadi> yeah - that should be ok]
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| 10:31 | <ogra_cmpc> do you have a pressing reason that it has to be smb/cifs ?
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| 10:31 | <Pascal_1> it's a samba share
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| 10:31 | <ogra_cmpc> the homedir ?
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| 10:31 | <Pascal_1> yes
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| 10:31 | volume * smbfs 192.168.39.248 & ~/&'_SIOUX' dmask=0751,uid=&,user - -
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| 10:31 | like that ?
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| 10:31 | <ogra_cmpc> but running on a linux server ?
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| 10:32 | <Pascal_1> yes
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| 10:32 | * ogra_cmpc would use nfs for linux-linux connections | |
| 10:32 | <Pascal_1> i've got one ldap server (first machine), one samba server (second machine) and one ltsp server
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| 10:33 | but the samba server is used also by windows client
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| 10:33 | <ogra_cmpc> and apparently lots of windows
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| 10:33 | yeah
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| 10:33 | well, samba and nfs can easily serve the same dir ...
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| 10:33 | <Pascal_1> the error is always the same : pam_mount(misc.c:346) error setting uid to 0
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| 10:33 | <ogra_cmpc> and setting up nfs with pam_mount shouldnt be an issue
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| 10:34 | <Pascal_1> it seems to be a problem with openssh because no problem with local gdm or local console
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| 10:34 | <Gadi> it is related to the priviledge separation
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| 10:34 | <ogra_cmpc> yes, you need to find a wat to do cheat the privilege separation
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| 10:34 | <Gadi> there are comments in the pam_mount docs
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| 10:34 | <Pascal_1> yes but i test the two configuration yes and no
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| 10:35 | <ogra_cmpc> (which you dont if you just mount /home via nfs from teh server)
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| 10:35 | staffencasa has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:35 | <Gadi> have you done 'no' + user
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| 10:35 | ?
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| 10:35 | <Pascal_1> gadi where ?
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| 10:35 | <Gadi> ie UsePriviledgeSeparation no
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| 10:35 | krishna_ has quit IRC | |
| 10:35 | <Pascal_1> + user ?
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| 10:35 | <Gadi> and in the options: uid=&,user
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| 10:36 | my thinking is that would cause the mount to heppen by the user
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| 10:36 | so the unmount could happen by the user
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| 10:37 | <Pascal_1> i try the same
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| 10:37 | it doesn works
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| 10:37 | <Gadi> be sure to umount the mount if it is mounted
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| 10:37 | <Pascal_1> yes sure
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| 10:37 | when i try with UsePriviledgeSeparation no, there is no log in /var/log/auth when i loggout
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| 10:40 | i 've got to tell you i'm on a debian
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| 10:40 | may be it's important
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| 10:40 | but i had the same problem with gutsy
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| 10:40 | <ogra_cmpc> they use the same ssh (gutsy is newer than etch though)
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| 10:40 | its even the same maintainer
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| 10:41 | <Pascal_1> yes
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| 10:41 | * ogra_cmpc really wonders why people try so overly complicated setups that take them hours instead of the simple solution thats set up in 5 min | |
| 10:41 | <laga> because it's fun
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| 10:42 | <Pascal_1> no
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| 10:42 | <ogra_cmpc> (and is way easier to maintain)
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| 10:42 | <Pascal_1> if you have a better solution
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| 10:42 | <ogra_cmpc> install nfs on the samba server
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| 10:42 | <Pascal_1> but with my samba server it seems to me evident to use pam_mount to mount and umount samba share
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| 10:42 | nfs is sure ?
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| 10:42 | <Gadi> Pascal_1: the only other thing I can think of is to setuid /usr/bin/smbumount
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| 10:42 | <ogra_cmpc> create an /etc/exports that exports /home and restricts access to the ltwsp server
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| 10:43 | <Gadi> chmod +s /usr/bin/smbumount
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| 10:43 | <ogra_cmpc> add a line to fstap on the ltsp server that mounts /home from the samba machine
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| 10:43 | <Pascal_1> Gadi, i do that also
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| 10:43 | <Gadi> oh, wait
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| 10:43 | <ogra_cmpc> run mount -a and youre done
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| 10:43 | <Gadi> did you do the sudoers thing?
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| 10:43 | <Pascal_1> yes
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| 10:43 | <ogra_cmpc> Gadi, the sudoers thing ?
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| 10:43 | <Gadi> doesnt look like its doing that
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| 10:44 | <Pascal_1> ad the user to the sudo file config
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| 10:44 | <ogra_cmpc> oh my
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| 10:44 | * ogra_cmpc goes to make some coffee and get some popcorn | |
| 10:44 | <Gadi> ogra_cmpc: my cheat when I had to do this once upon a time was the ugly: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WinIntegration#pam_mount_conf_and_LDM_ssh
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| 10:45 | * Gadi couldn't use NFS as I was connecting to an AD server I could not touch | |
| 10:45 | <ogra_cmpc> so why does everything have to be dynamically ?
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| 10:45 | <Pascal_1> here is the problem : "In addition, with ssh, it seems that the unmount is called by the user and not by root (as the mount is)."
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| 10:45 | <ogra_cmpc> even adding a smbmount line to the clients fstab will be easiser than fiddling with all that stuff
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| 10:46 | err ...
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| 10:46 | servers fstab indeed
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| 10:46 | <Gadi> in my case, it was a permissions thing
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| 10:46 | ogra_cmpc: sometimes you dont control the network
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| 10:49 | <Pascal_1> gadi i 've just test again with sudo it doesn t works anympore
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| 10:49 | <ogra_cmpc> well, thats a reason ...
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| 10:49 | <Pascal_1> anymore
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| 10:49 | <ogra_cmpc> but the only one i would accept as admin who has to do the work
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| 10:50 | <Gadi> Pascal_1: put privilege separation back to yes
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| 10:50 | and use the sudo stuff
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| 10:50 | and make sure the users are in that sudoers group
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| 10:51 | nm that last comment
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| 10:51 | just noticed it is set to ALL
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| 10:52 | Blinny has quit IRC | |
| 10:53 | <Pascal_1> http://pastebin.fr/1199
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| 10:53 | ;-)
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| 10:54 | <Gadi> did it work?
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| 10:55 | I mean despite the errors?
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| 10:55 | <Pascal_1> gadi is great gadi is beautiful gadi is love gadi is everything yep yep yep !!!!!
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| 10:55 | <Gadi> heh
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| 10:55 | lol
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| 10:55 | <ogra_cmpc> we all do :)
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| 10:55 | <Gadi> its a *really* ugly hack
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| 10:55 | <Pascal_1> in fact always this error : pam_mount(misc.c:346) error setting uid to 0
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| 10:56 | <Gadi> but I was under the gun at the time
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| 10:56 | :)
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| 10:56 | <ogra_cmpc> (i still doubt the maintainablity vs two lines of change for an nfs mount though)
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| 10:56 | <Pascal_1> but just after ltsp sudo: plegrand : TTY=unknown ; PWD=/ ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/usr/bin/smbumount /home/users/biatoss/plegrand/plegrand_SIOUX
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| 10:56 | it works thanks a lot Gadi and ogra your are wonderfull !!!!!
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| 10:56 | <Gadi> yeah linux-to-linux nfsmount is better
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| 10:56 | * ogra_cmpc would love to see Pascal_1 if he returns after 6 monyths not touching that setup | |
| 10:56 | <Gadi> bec nfs understand unix uid/gids
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| 10:56 | <ogra_cmpc> yeah
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| 10:57 | <Gadi> with samba there's all this translation
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| 10:57 | <ogra_cmpc> and if you look at it in half a year the thing is still only one line in exports and one in fstab :)
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| 10:57 | <Gadi> and it becomes very easy to say, make a mount that either no one but root can access, or *everyone* on the system can access
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| 10:58 | <Pascal_1> thanks again see you (read you later) !!!
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| 10:58 | <Gadi> :)
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| 10:58 | <ogra_cmpc> have fun
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| 10:58 | <Gadi> bonsoir
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| 10:59 | <Pascal_1> Gadi, !!!!!!!
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| 10:59 | * ogra_cmpc still remembers the bright times where there was no ldap around ... the solutions were so much easier | |
| 10:59 | <Pascal_1> bel effort !!!!!
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| 10:59 | <ogra_cmpc> less fiddly and easy to understand for everyone
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| 10:59 | Pascal_1 has quit IRC | |
| 10:59 | <ogra_cmpc> heh
| |
| 11:00 | * vagrantc kind of wakes up finally | |
| 11:00 | <warren> vagrantc, welcome back!
| |
| 11:02 | <ogra_cmpc> lazy us bastards ... they all sleep in every day ... nobody gets up before three tsk weird country
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| 11:02 | we should all live on UTC !
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| 11:03 | warren, is it true that fedora uses the debian alternatives system now ?
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| 11:03 | <warren> ogra_cmpc, uh... for maybe 4+ years
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| 11:03 | <ogra_cmpc> i heard a rumour
| |
| 11:03 | heh, funny
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| 11:03 | <warren> ogra_cmpc, we don't use it for many things at all
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| 11:04 | [warren@newcaprica alternatives]$ ls /etc/alternatives/ |wc -l
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| 11:04 | 77
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| 11:04 | half of which is java crap
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| 11:04 | <ogra_cmpc> yeah, i can imagine it doesnt go so well without the debian policies and packaging system in the backend
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| 11:05 | <warren> ogra_cmpc, well part of the reason we don't use it much is because most of us hate how it works, we don't use it
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| 11:05 | <ogra_cmpc> yeah, it only gains oyu real advantage in context with the above
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| 11:05 | <vagrantc> it's most helpful when you have a half-dozen things all implementing the same functionality
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| 11:06 | <ogra_cmpc> right
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| 11:06 | <warren> yeah, which is why java and MTA's use it
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| 11:06 | * ogra_cmpc isnt sure we use it for MTAs | |
| 11:06 | <ogra_cmpc> they have virtual packages
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| 11:07 | and conflict each other iirc
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| 11:07 | <warren> shouldn't ltsp-server and ltsp-client technically conflict with each other?
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| 11:07 | mccann has quit IRC | |
| 11:08 | <ogra_cmpc> no
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| 11:08 | conflicts in dpkg mean that you have two files claiming the same filename
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| 11:09 | which isnt the case in ltsp server vs client
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| 11:09 | we have a check in the preinst script of the ltsp-client package
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| 11:09 | that looks for /etc/ltsp_chroot (created by ltsp-build-client)
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| 11:09 | if that file doesnt exist you cant install it
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| 11:11 | who knows ... probably someone wants to implement netbooting ltsp servers based on ltsp client chroots ... then conflicting wouldnt work
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| 11:11 | * vagrantc has implemented network-booted ltsp servers using ltsp | |
| 11:12 | mccann has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:12 | <ogra_cmpc> (i know its a rather esoteric example ) :)
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| 11:12 | <vagrantc> haven't actually used it in production ... but there has definitely been interest in such an environment
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| 11:12 | <ogra_cmpc> really ?
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| 11:12 | heh
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| 11:14 | tux_440volt has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:19 | <warren> WHY!?
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| 11:20 | <vagrantc> having multiple servers across different sites with slow connections between them ... boot one server, cache the ltsp environment, and maintain everything centrally.
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| 11:21 | though i think they've mostly gone with a disked install at every site ...
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| 11:21 | <ogra_cmpc> i know a lot usecases where they netboot their serverfarm
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| 11:22 | but thats usually webservers rather than ltsp
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| 11:22 | <vagrantc> though, i actually think the original idea was planned years in advance, and it was to make "12:19 < warren> WHY!?" happen.
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| 11:22 | <ogra_cmpc> LOL
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| 11:23 | <vagrantc> warren: getting you involved in ltsp, but not too quickly, was the hardest part to get right.
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| 11:23 | <warren> Me flooding the bzr log wasn't quick enough?
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| 11:24 | spectra has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:24 | <ogra_cmpc> it took you two years
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| 11:24 | or 1.5
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| 11:25 | <steph_> ogra_cmpc: if I understand, there is no way to have client specific policy (apps, menu, ...) as Sabayon would do?
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| 11:25 | <ogra_cmpc> steph_, there is nothing running on the client but ldm
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| 11:25 | sessions run on the server
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| 11:26 | so its up to whatever you use as session to have profiles etc
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| 11:26 | <steph_> ogra_cmpc: I,m not sure to understand the last reply
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| 11:26 | <ogra_cmpc> (gnome->sabayon, kde->kiosktool)
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| 11:27 | <steph_> I'm french canadian
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| 11:28 | <ogra_cmpc> sabayon or kiosktool is what you want there is nothing to configure on the client itself
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| 11:28 | <steph_> thanks
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| 12:33 | <vagrantc> hrm.
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| 12:33 | the little magic trick to set the hostname from within initramfs isn't working anymore :(
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| 12:37 | <laga> still works for me on hardy.. i just use "hostname <newhostname>"
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| 12:40 | * vagrantc notes that ubuntu hasn't sync'ed initramfs-tools in quite some time | |
| 12:40 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, i dont think we'll ever sync
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| 12:57 | <steph_> ogra_cmpc: you help me found what I was looking for. Sabayon did the job. It's great. There is on thing that doesn't work. I would like to change the wallpaper to our school logo when I add new users. It looks like there's a generic desktop. Do you wich one it is?
| |
| 12:57 | *know wich...
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| 12:58 | <ogra_cmpc> steph_, /usr/share/backgrounds has the images ... but instead of overwriting an existing one, copy yours there and use a gconf file in /usr/share/gconf/defaults/ to set the wallpaer entry to your file ...
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| 13:02 | <steph_> ogra_cmpc: It sounds good 8-)
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| 13:02 | thanks
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| 13:03 | <ogra> the key you want is /desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename look in the other files in that dir how the syntax is
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| 13:08 | <vagrantc> ogra: well, that's a sad story then.
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| 13:08 | <ogra> vagrantc, well, we're upstream ... keybuk said he would regulary cherrypick what he finds sane though
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| 13:09 | i dont think he will ever do a full sync
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| 13:09 | <vagrantc> ogra: get him to cherrypick the configure_network commit
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| 13:09 | ogra: that saves us some code between nfs and ltsp
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| 13:09 | <ogra> nfs and ltsp ?
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| 13:09 | nfs and ndb ?
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| 13:09 | <vagrantc> ogra: the initramfs-tools scripts ... nfs and ltsp_nbd
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| 13:09 | <ogra> *nbd
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| 13:09 | ah, right
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| 13:10 | i'll take a look, but we're in beta freeze ... and sneaking stuff past slangasek (vorlon) is a lot harder
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| 13:12 | <vagrantc> ogra: well, not urgent, really. just hope to at least sync that patch at some point
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| 13:13 | <ogra> make something in ltsp depend on the change ;) then i'll surely not forget about it
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| 13:13 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 13:14 | ogra: i was looking at how the nbd-client initramfs-tools hooks works. it's very simple and nice.
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| 13:14 | <ogra> upstream wise ltsp is final in ubuntu
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| 13:14 | instead of using ltsp_nbd ?
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| 13:14 | orltsp_nbd as wrapper around it
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| 13:14 | <vagrantc> as a wrapper, possibly.
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| 13:15 | <ogra> sounds intresting
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| 13:15 | <vagrantc> most likely ... since you'll need unionfs support
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| 13:15 | <ogra> right
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| 13:15 | and loop as well
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| 13:15 | <vagrantc> but it could handle the /dev/nbd* initialization(s) with a few patchese
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| 13:16 | ogra: it actually just hooks into the "local" script ... but we could possibly symlink to it or source it
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| 13:17 | <ogra> how does it handle server IP and port ?
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| 13:18 | <vagrantc> ogra: i've already sucessfully booted LTSP using the nbd scripts ... just requires setting up root=/dev/nbd0 nbdroot=192.168.0.1,2000 in the boot arguments ... i might try and get some common code with the nfs server selection and such and submit patches
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| 13:18 | hooks into local-top
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| 13:18 | <ogra> great
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| 13:18 | nbdroot is good :)
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| 13:18 | <vagrantc> yeah.
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| 13:19 | warren: do you have a pointer to how the dm-snapshot unionfs-like thing works?
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| 13:19 | <ogra> though i still like that it works without any arguments atm
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| 13:19 | <laga> i need to sneak my mythbuntu-diskless somewhere in there, too. otherwise maintaining that isn't going to be fun if you've got so many things planned :)
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| 13:19 | <vagrantc> well, i think we can get it to work without arguments
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| 13:19 | <ogra> laga, we're not exactly planning
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| 13:19 | * vagrantc is planning | |
| 13:19 | <vagrantc> :)
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| 13:20 | or would you call it scheming?
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| 13:20 | <ogra> investigating options :)
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| 13:20 | <warren> vagrantc, http://git.fedoraproject.org/git/?p=mkinitrd;a=blob;f=mkliveinitrd;h=44186191d45b5307f0d8a3f8b3fdfd170642c036;hb=HEAD
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| 13:20 | <laga> "making my stuff break" ;))
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| 13:21 | <ogra> indeed
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| 13:21 | everything breaks all the time
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| 13:21 | <vagrantc> warren: thanks :)
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| 13:21 | laga: i need to figure out the aufs incantations needed ...
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| 13:23 | <laga> vagrantc: you can compile aufs with a compatibility mode
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| 13:23 | <ogra> casper got aufs support recently
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| 13:23 | <vagrantc> i guess i can look in debian-live
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| 13:23 | <ogra> might be that ubuntu switches in intrepid
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| 13:23 | <laga> not sure if that's enabled in hardy.. i think it's deprecated anyways
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| 13:23 | <vagrantc> laga: i dont' want to compile anything
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| 13:23 | <laga> vagrantc: does debian have aufs?
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| 13:23 | <vagrantc> laga: yeah
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| 13:23 | debian-live has been using it instead of unionfs for some time now
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| 13:24 | <laga> pre-compiled? cool!
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| 13:24 | <ogra> laga, they have everything but you need to compile it usually if iyts not upstream
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| 13:24 | <laga> that's great
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| 13:24 | ogra: i know they have a source package, but i didn't know they had it precompiled
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| 13:24 | <vagrantc> ogra: not true ... packages.qa.debian.org/linux-modules-extra-2.6
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| 13:24 | <ogra> oh, you dont need m-a ?
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| 13:24 | <vagrantc> http://
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| 13:24 | <laga> ogra: and you could ship dkms in the squashfs ;)
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| 13:24 | <vagrantc> a good number off modules include pre-build packages now
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| 13:24 | <laga> oh, and build-essential ;)
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| 13:25 | <warren> you really want gcc in your chroot?
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| 13:25 | <ogra> vagrantc, oh, nice
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| 13:25 | <laga> no, i was just kidding ;)
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| 13:25 | <vagrantc> ogra: that's existed since etch
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| 13:26 | <ogra> warren, i know some people running build farms on ltsp
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| 13:26 | but using distcc
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| 13:27 | <laga> aufs > unionfs imho
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| 13:31 | <warren> neither are anywhere near upstream unfortunately
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| 13:31 | <vagrantc> using device-mapper snapshots sounds pretty slick ...
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| 13:33 | <warren> vagrantc, you could use something like nbdswapd for the dm-snap backing instead of ram
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| 13:33 | vagrantc, a little slower but better for low memory clients
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| 13:33 | <vagrantc> indeed.
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| 13:34 | or just figure out why NBD copy-on-write works fine when started from commandline but fails from inetd
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| 13:34 | <ogra> tried different dirs ?
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| 13:34 | <warren> vagrantc, perhaps the COW makes a different TCP connection?
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| 13:34 | <ogra> i guess inetd needs to own it
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| 13:35 | or at keqast the user it runs as
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| 13:35 | *least
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| 13:35 | <vagrantc> ogra: well, using the exact same dirs, it works when i run it from the commandline but not from inetd.
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| 13:35 | although ... hmm... maybe there is some sort of permissions issue
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| 13:35 | <ogra> try using /tmp
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| 13:35 | that shouldnt choke
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| 13:36 | <vagrantc> i made sure the directory was writeable by the user/group ... just for testing
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| 13:37 | and it creates the a .diff file, but it when you try and mount it it says it's write protected
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| 13:37 | http://bugs.debian.org/470851
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| 13:37 | <ogra> tcpd ?
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| 13:38 | <vagrantc> yeah... that's a difference
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| 13:41 | i'll try with /opt/ltsp/i386.img owned by nobody.nogroup
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| 13:41 | because i was running from the commandline as root
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| 13:41 | <ogra> i would copy it to /tmp first
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| 13:42 | to make sure there are no fs permission issues at all
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| 13:42 | <vagrantc> well, it's almost booted, so we'll see
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| 13:42 | :)
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| 13:44 | using an ext2 image makes NBD much more tolerable for me as a developer :)
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| 13:45 | <ogra> heh
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| 13:45 | <vagrantc> the only tricky part is remembering to unmount it before it boots
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| 13:46 | <ogra> i have a ton of scripts for mounting varoius stacks of filesystems
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| 13:47 | the classmate installer image i built is actually a maze of different stacks
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| 13:47 | <vagrantc> it is permissions.
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| 13:47 | <ogra> yeah
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| 13:47 | i ran into that before
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| 13:48 | <vagrantc> nbd-server assumes it needs +rw to the original image even if using cow
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| 13:48 | <ogra> not with cow but with image stuff
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| 13:52 | <ogra> vagrantc, seen that ? http://ftp-master.debian.org/new/squeak-vm_3.9.12+svn1820.dfsg-1.html
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| 13:53 | <vagrantc> ogra: yes?
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| 13:54 | <ogra> squeak entering debian ...
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| 13:54 | * vagrantc only slightly knows what squeak is | |
| 13:54 | <vagrantc> i've heard a lot of talk on the debian-edu list about it over the years
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| 13:55 | <ogra> nonfree apple licensed smallatalk interpreter
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| 13:55 | used in schools a lot
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| 13:55 | there was some effort to free it up
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| 13:56 | but in ubuntu its still something considered for multiverse (non-free) ... i wonder how he got it to the dfsg state
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| 13:57 | <johnny> so no other smalltalk intepreter will work?
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| 13:57 | <ogra> ?
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| 13:58 | <johnny> just wondering why you're using squeak vs any other
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| 13:58 | * ogra doesnt understand | |
| 14:04 | <johnny> isn't there some other small talk interpreter you can use?
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| 14:05 | <ogra> might be, no idea
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| 14:05 | i only know squeak and it seems to be the preferred app everywhere
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| 14:12 | <vagrantc> ogra: any irc channel you'd recommend for figuring out CPU throttling on a gutsy box?
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| 14:12 | <ogra> whats wrong ?
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| 14:13 | <vagrantc> got one machine that if you enable throttling... it starts lowering the CPU speed till it crashes
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| 14:13 | <ogra> #ubuntu-kernel
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| 14:13 | if you are lucky mjg59 is around
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| 14:14 | <vagrantc> ok... i'll drop in there sometime when the machine isn't actively used
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| 14:14 | * vagrantc wonders if it would be smart to enable cpu throttling on LTSP clients | |
| 14:15 | <ogra> ubuntu does set the ondemand governor by default
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| 14:15 | <vagrantc> ogra: does it autodetect which module you need to load ?
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| 14:15 | <warren> as does fedora
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| 14:15 | <ogra> so it will only raise speed if thats needed and idle at lowest speed if not
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| 14:16 | vagrantc, yup we have some initscripts for that
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| 14:16 | <warren> vagrantc, on fedora it loads the module and dynamic lowers or raises speed if the cpuspeed service is running
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| 14:16 | I think
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| 14:16 | I haven't poked at it since like Fedora 1
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| 14:16 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 14:16 | <ogra> ubuntu leaves it to the kernel
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| 14:16 | we used to do that though
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| 14:16 | <laga> ogra: is powernowd still installed by default?
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| 14:17 | <warren> ok, we don't have a daemon
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| 14:17 | <laga> yeah, i think it is for other stuff like shutting down idle disks, right?
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| 14:17 | <ogra> laga, not since pre gutsy
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| 14:17 | <laga> ah
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| 14:17 | i'll have to check on my gutsy laptop then
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| 14:18 | <ogra> we has a pretty complex powermanagement system in place since warty that vanished piece by piece with every new feature the kernel could handle
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| 14:18 | now its completely kernel side afaik
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| 14:19 | userspace handled by hal if needed
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| 14:20 | * ogra goes to make some food | |
| 14:21 | <vagrantc> powernowd was installed by default on a gutsy machine
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| 14:21 | <vagrantc> not enabled, though
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| 14:22 | <laga> my laptop spins down the HDD way too often in gutsy, i need to figure out why.. or upgrade to hardy first ;)
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| 14:26 | <vagrantc> ok, i've got a booting ltsp client using NBD(copy-on-write)+ext2
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| 14:30 | <ogra> vagrantc, the powernowd-early initscript is the module detection part i was mentioning
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| 14:30 | <vagrantc> ogra: ah, cool.
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| 14:31 | <ogra> laga, ubuntu doesnt touch the hdd settings *unless* you installed laptop-mode and enabled it manually
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| 14:31 | * vagrantc remembers finding laptop-mode to be extremely useful when running debian-live from disk | |
| 14:32 | <vagrantc> it almost never touched the disk
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| 14:32 | <ogra> the bad thing about endless upgradeable systems like debianand ubuntu is that you forget things tou changed years ago
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| 14:32 | s/tou/you/
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| 14:32 | <laga> ogra: yes, i did that. it doesn't honor some setting in /etc/default which claims to set the idle time... IIRC, IMHO & AFAIK, i never really investigated that because i was busy with school
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| 14:33 | ogra: yup
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| 14:37 | <ogra> ouch, that remonds me ... i havent done a dapper hardy upgrade test for ltsp yet
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| 14:37 | <johnny> lol
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| 14:37 | hve fun with that :)
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| 14:37 | <ogra> we changed the tftf location between these two i think
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| 14:38 | <johnny> linux changes so often that i stick with the "bleeding edge" for now, often the things i want to do require the new hotness
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| 14:38 | <ogra> johnny, surely not ... but we promise that LTS to LTS works so at least the server config must be adjusted
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| 14:38 | <johnny> obviously
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| 14:38 | <ogra> i dont midt slapping a meswsage in the users face that he needs to rebuild the chroot ... but everything sould work after that
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| 14:39 | *mind
| |
| 14:39 | *message
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| 14:39 | meh
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| 14:39 | * ogra starts considering to develop a voice input system for the classmate | |
| 14:45 | <johnny> i don't listen :(
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| 14:45 | Topslack has quit IRC | |
| 14:45 | <johnny> i went ahead and got the quickstart maintainer to add linux32 support , so i can properly build the i386 chroot on amd64 :)
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| 14:48 | <laga> ogra: this would be nifty for edubuntu: http://www.clt-st.de/dialogos?lang=en too bad it's not open source
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| 14:50 | <Pascal_1> only a few words to thank again gadi and ogra !!!!
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| 15:13 | <johnny> so 000-base-configuration will run before 001-set-arch ?
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| 15:13 | <vagrantc> yes
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| 15:14 | well... parts of it will
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| 15:14 | <johnny> ok, i'm wondering why 000-basic-configuration touchs arch then
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| 15:14 | <vagrantc> it sets the defaults
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| 15:14 | <johnny> i meant at the same level, like configure
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| 15:14 | <vagrantc> each plugin is called multiple times
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| 15:15 | <johnny> commandline 000-999, then configure 000-999 ?
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| 15:15 | <vagrantc> yes.
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| 15:16 | see the run_parts_list function in server/plugins/functions
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| 15:24 | <johnny> my bash scripting is vastly improving already..
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| 15:25 | <cyberorg> hi team, how do i get more logos on ldm? i want ltsp and openSUSE logo on top corners like this http://cyberorg.kicks-ass.org/~cyberorg/suse-ldm.png
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| 15:25 | i tried putting them directly on the bg.png, but they look terrible
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| 15:26 | <Gadi> looks like nothing the gimp cant fix
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| 15:27 | use higher-res graphics
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| 15:27 | <cyberorg> Gadi, they stretch on widescreen clients
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| 15:27 | <Gadi> as will any logo
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| 15:27 | :)
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| 15:27 | <ogra> Gadi, nope
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| 15:27 | <cyberorg> unlike the middle one, it doesnt as it is floating one
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| 15:27 | <Gadi> unless you tell it to load a widescreen version
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| 15:28 | <ogra> as will any wallpaper :)
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| 15:28 | not logo :)
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| 15:28 | <Gadi> ogra: iirc, you stretch the bg.png to fit the screen
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| 15:28 | <ogra> right and logo.png floats on top of that
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| 15:28 | <cyberorg> Gadi, that is why we cannot have logo on bg.png, but need it floating like the logo.png
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| 15:28 | <Gadi> ah
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| 15:28 | why not doctor up the logo?
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| 15:29 | <ogra> make a huge transparent logo and put both on that
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| 15:29 | <cyberorg> i donno how to add more floating png
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| 15:29 | <Gadi> exactly
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| 15:30 | make an 800x600 logo
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| 15:30 | or some such
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| 15:30 | <cyberorg> not a good solution, will add few more kbs
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| 15:30 | <Gadi> lol
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| 15:30 | <ogra> the other option is to hack up the greeter
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| 15:30 | <Gadi> right
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| 15:30 | <ogra> feel free
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| 15:30 | <Gadi> open glade and play
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| 15:30 | :)
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| 15:31 | <ogra> no glade
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| 15:31 | way to heavy
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| 15:31 | <cyberorg> ogra, if i could hack, i'd be doing what warren does to ltsp-trunk :)
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| 15:31 | <ogra> its all plain C/GTK
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| 15:31 | <warren> removing stuff?
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| 15:31 | <Gadi> lol
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| 15:31 | <cyberorg> warren, contributing a lot of useful stuff
| |
| 15:31 | * warren laughing inside about silent.wav | |
| 15:32 | <warren> cyberorg, I haven't contributed a single useful thing
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| 15:32 | <ogra> heh
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| 15:32 | <warren> cyberorg, btw tried the new mkdst?
| |
| 15:32 | <cyberorg> warren, well my packaging became quite simple after your spec
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| 15:32 | <ogra> but tons of unuseful ones .... that negates to positive :P
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| 15:32 | <cyberorg> warren, never going to use it :)
| |
| 15:33 | <warren> ok good
| |
| 15:34 | <cyberorg> i'd be doing a alpha0 release today/tomorrow, everything works as expected, optimization is next
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| 15:37 | how big is your image size ogra ?
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| 15:39 | <ogra> ogra@ceron:~/devel/packages/xaos-3.2$ ls -lh /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
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| 15:39 | -rwxr--r-- 1 root root 153M 2008-02-21 13:17 /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
| |
| 15:40 | <cyberorg> oh, i cut too much, ours is 103M /srv/kiwi-ltsp/ltsp-suse-11.0.i686-0.0.1
| |
| 15:41 | * warren looks at our 70MB initrd... | |
| 15:41 | <cyberorg> warren, initrd!!
| |
| 15:41 | <warren> cyberorg, j/k
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| 15:41 | cyberorg, a different part of Fedora is shoving the entire OS into initrd
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| 15:42 | <cyberorg> warren, ogra , vagrantc and everyone here had a good laugh at our 25M initrd when i started :)
| |
| 15:42 | it is now 10M
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| 15:43 | <Gadi> cyberorg: ubuntu's image can easily be reduced to a little over 100M like yours
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| 15:43 | <warren> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5937625 2008-03-10 22:56 initrd-2.6.25-0.101.rc4.git3.fc9.img
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| 15:43 | <cyberorg> coolo(opensuse PM) came in complaining today about 35M initrd of live CDs he creates
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| 15:43 | <Gadi> lots of stuff in there is unnecessary
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| 15:43 | <cyberorg> warren, how big is that?
| |
| 15:43 | 59M>?
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| 15:43 | <warren> 5.7MB
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| 15:43 | that's with a bunch of useless drivers included
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| 15:44 | not just ethernet, but wireless, atm and anything else in kernel's "networking" group
| |
| 15:44 | <cyberorg> same here, we got too much in there, can't remove yet, because we won't know what would break
| |
| 15:44 | <warren> I added a "--without=" option to our mkinitrd so I can begin to purge stuff I don't want, but havne't used it yet.
| |
| 15:44 | <ogra> ogra@ceron:~/devel/packages/xaos-3.2$ ls -lh /opt/ltsp/i386/boot/initrd.img-2.6.24-8-generic
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| 15:44 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4,3M 2008-02-26 15:40 /opt/ltsp/i386/boot/initrd.img-2.6.24-8-generic
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| 15:45 | beat that :)
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| 15:45 | <laga> 2.6.24-8? you need to update ;)
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| 15:45 | <ogra> yeah
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| 15:45 | to much classmate, not enough ltsp in my life atm
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| 15:46 | <cyberorg> 2.4M /boot/vmlinux-2.6.24.1-6-default.gz
| |
| 15:46 | 4.1M /boot/initrd-2.6.24.1-6-default
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| 15:47 | <ogra> why is your kernel so big ?
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| 15:47 | <johnny> it's a magic kernel..
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| 15:47 | <ogra> heh
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| 15:47 | <rjune_> my kernel is bigger then your kernel
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| 15:47 | <cyberorg> donno, would have to ask gkh
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| 15:47 | <johnny> it actually has the kitchen sink in it..
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| 15:47 | <ogra> and the fridge :)
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| 15:48 | * cyberorg goes to sleep | |
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| 15:48 | <cyberorg> 'night
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| 15:48 | <ogra> night
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| 16:19 | <warren> cyberorg, is SuSE using ltsp-client-launch?
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| 16:40 | * vagrantc wonders what the -persist option to nbd is | |
| 16:40 | <vagrantc> maybe that's what makes timeout meaningful
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| 21:26 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "i18n warnings for ltsp-trunk" (4 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/472
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| 21:26 | <vagrantc> warren: that's for you
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| 21:27 | <vagrantc> warren: i think i could fix it, but since i don't use that script, i figured i'd hand it back to you
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| 21:30 | <johnny_> vagrantc, i couldn't help it
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| 21:30 | i went on the crazy path
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| 21:30 | and got i386 under amd64 working
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| 21:30 | at least to build properly
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| 21:30 | * vagrantc is amazed that people don't just do the easy things first | |
| 21:31 | <johnny_> i couldn't help it..
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| 21:31 | i guess it was mainly due to the fact that's how i have it working in RL
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| 21:31 | so that's how i wanted to make it work
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| 21:32 | it wasn't that difficult, i got the maintainer of the build script we're using to add two useful patches in the process
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| 21:32 | it only took like 10 lines in total
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| 21:35 | actually.. it was only 5 lines, in both ltsp scripts (so far) and in the build script itself
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| 21:43 | <vagrantc> 3 copies of 5 lines?
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| 21:47 | <johnny_> no
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| 21:58 | soon i'll have a worthy patch to commit i hope
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| 21:58 | build-client is almost complete, at least the parts that are finished, still need completed ebuilds for ltspfs,ltsp, and ldm
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| 22:10 | <vagrantc> johnny_: so you've got a client that at least boots?
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| 22:13 | <johnny_> no, still building the client
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| 22:13 | it takes an hour and a half atm
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| 22:14 | we'll be providing some binary packages after it works
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| 22:15 | a step would fail, then i'd go back and tweak it
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| 22:16 | <vagrantc> i wouldn't spend any time on ltspfs and ldm until you get a booting client
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| 22:16 | i should probably write a step-by-step howto for doing things *my* way for new distros :)
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| 22:17 | <johnny_> yes, the next step after building the client is building the kernel
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| 22:17 | then i'll have something boot
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| 22:18 | <vagrantc> i'm surprised there isn't some tool to just build a basic gentoo chroot ... ?
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| 22:23 | <johnny_> ther eis
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| 22:23 | it's what i'm using
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| 22:23 | but the basic chroot doesn't include xorg
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| 22:23 | so that is building atm
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| 22:24 | <vagrantc> but why not get it booting first?
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| 22:24 | xorg seems like a slow process to get working before you even have it booting
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| 22:24 | <johnny_> i just want the entire build-client scxript to run without completion
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| 22:24 | well i'm doing it while being in and out doing stuff at the store
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| 22:24 | so it's an excuse to get other things done :)
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| 22:25 | the event finally ended
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| 22:25 | hopefully i'll have time to actually put effort into it tomorrow
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| 22:41 | <johnny_> my ltsp-build-client looks more like fedora's than debian or ubuntu
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