IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 20 January 2010 (all times are UTC)
| 00:11 | alkisg has joined #ltsp | |
| 00:24 | <alkisg> Good morning all. I want to give the pxe menus / ltspkernels.conf / ltsp-update-kernels / ltsp-update-image / inetd.conf thing a try today. Would it be better if I did some heavy modifications on the existing tools, particularly ltsp-update-image, or if I the whole thing was new script? (ltsp-update-pxelinux)
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| 00:39 | <johnny> please not ltsp-update-image
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| 00:40 | remember.. not everybody uses it
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| 01:21 | <alkisg> johnny: sure, I know... ltsp-update-image is what handles nbd port numbers, though
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| 01:21 | ltsp-update-kernels would be the one that generates the pxelinux.cfg/default files
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| 01:22 | <johnny> doesn't mean you shouldn't use it
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| 01:22 | also.. it should be another script .. just because :)
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| 01:22 | <alkisg> I'm not sure about that :)
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| 01:22 | There's a great lack of cooperation between the involved scripts, currently
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| 01:23 | Sure, I can make a seperate script, and I can even not put it in ltsp at all but as a seperate project, but I really think we should fix those scripts to better cooperate
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| 01:25 | <johnny> that sounds like a good idea too
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| 01:25 | alkisg, it would be nice if parts could be pulled out as shell functions and included..
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| 01:25 | and call some stuff conditionally depending on whether certain features were used, like nbd
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| 01:27 | <alkisg> johnny: some more thoughts: e.g. 000-basic-configuration could contain the BOOTPROMPT_OPTS or even the pxe menu caption, and note that down to $ROOT/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
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| 01:27 | That would make update-kernels distro agnostic (now it has "case $VENDOR in...")
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| 01:28 | <johnny> they could pull in other files too tho..
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| 01:28 | and especially other functions..
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| 01:28 | <alkisg> Also, ltsp-update-image would write down the (possibly modified) nbd port number to that file
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| 01:29 | update-kernels would then use whatever information was there to construct a minimal pxelinux.cfg/default in th chroot,
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| 01:29 | and ltsp-update-kernels would use those files but also additional server-side info to generate all the pxe menus
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| 01:30 | (e.g. if memdisk is there or if the user specified other menu entries)
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| 01:31 | Now, the "pulling other files/scripts" is a seperate thing. We could add that after that modifications, but I want to keep the changes simple/minimal for a start...
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| 01:31 | johnny: do you have some examples in mind?
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| 01:31 | <vagrantc> oh, what an adventure
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| 01:32 | <alkisg> :)
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| 01:33 | <vagrantc> i like making BOOTPROMPT_OPTS distro agnostic.
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| 01:33 | though i don't think all the distro's use update-kernels, even.
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| 01:33 | but moving towards something we could all use would be nice.
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| 01:34 | the fewer places we can do case/if statements on things like VENDOR, the better.
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| 01:35 | <alkisg> vagrantc: default values would also be used, e.g. BOOTPROMPT_OPTS=${BOOTPROMPT_OPTS:-"root=/dev/nfs ip=dhcp"} - but of course if some distro doesn't use update-kernel, it would have to provide its own defaults
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| 01:36 | (or just update/source the update-kernels.conf file even if it doesn't use update-kernels)
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| 01:36 | <johnny> i would be able to use ltsp-update-kernels if i modified it..
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| 01:37 | <alkisg> So, I'm thinking to create a branch with all those modifications today + the next few days, and post it to ltsp-devel along with the rationale/specs...
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| 01:39 | <vagrantc> i probably won't be able to take much of a look at it till friday
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| 01:39 | <alkisg> It surely is *not* something to rush :)
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| 01:40 | I'm just asking if there's some consent, or a total waste of time :D
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| 01:41 | <vagrantc> i think it could use some serious overhaul and/or rewriting, so i'm glad to see work on it, though i do like the idea of it not being pushed into ltsp-trunk without a some review...
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| 01:42 | <alkisg> Of course. Many files would be modified, so I'm not going to commit such a thing without approval.
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| 01:43 | An ltsp-build-client plugin that creates update-kernels.conf will also need to be created in common/.
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| 01:44 | (maybe update-kernels.conf should be renamed if not all distros use it, whatever...)
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| 01:45 | Also, the pxe files would be split in two: (1) "entry" just the menu entry, and (2) "default", which will just include that entry and make it default
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| 01:46 | This way the "entry" files will be included by the "master" file = the menus, but it will still enable someone to keep his old dhcp settings without getting affected
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| 02:12 | <gnunux> hi
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| 02:29 | <alkisg> Hi
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| 02:46 | <johnny> you can always branch alkisg
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| 02:46 | that's what dvcs is for
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| 02:47 | or vcs in generally , but dvcs systems tend to make it easier
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| 02:53 | <alkisg> johnny: right, I'll propose a branch for merging when I'm done. I'll send the specs on the list first, because someone might not want those changes at all.
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| 07:47 | <mgariepy> good morning everyone
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| 08:01 | <alincoln> stgraber: I and others are seeing this on Lucid: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/507055
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| 08:01 | and i noted your benchmarks are on lucid, so you must have it working. :D
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| 08:02 | <ogra> thats just noise
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| 08:02 | <alincoln> in short, ldm segfaults either on log in or if X tries to restart after, say, a failed log in.
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| 08:02 | ogra: read the comments
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| 08:02 | the point is that X disappears
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| 08:02 | <ogra> i dont care about the comments, the log in the initial comment is definately not harmful
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| 08:02 | so that must be a different bug
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| 08:03 | the log is juts mountall trying to process fstab while that already happened
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| 08:03 | <alincoln> yes, i'm aware. i noted that in the comments.
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| 08:03 | <ogra> it doesnt do any harm and cant cause X to fail
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| 08:03 | so a new bug about the X failure should be filed
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| 08:04 | (indeed mountall should be fixed too, but thats definately just cosmetic)
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| 08:05 | <alkisg> alincoln: is that whole thing about the ldm segfaulting?
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| 08:05 | <alincoln> ogra: the user sees the confusing output because ldm/X dies. i'm trying to get help on fixing the ldm crash.
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| 08:05 | alkisg: yes
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| 08:05 | <alkisg> It's a duplicate of another bug I posted, along with the solution
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| 08:05 | <alincoln> alkisg: ah!
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| 08:05 | <alkisg> Please mark it as duplicate
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| 08:05 | <ogra> alkisg, that wont fix mountall though
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| 08:05 | <alincoln> i'll look, but can you link me to the dupe?
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| 08:06 | <alkisg> ogra: sure. But that bug isn't about mountall, is it?
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| 08:06 | <ogra> would be good to keep that one for the mountall messages so that can get cleaned up at some point
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| 08:06 | <alkisg> "ltsp fails to run"?
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| 08:06 | <ogra> alkisg, right, the subject line should be renamed
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| 08:06 | the first comment is properly pointing to mountall
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| 08:06 | <alkisg> I'm thinking that maybe _another_ one should be filed... :)
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| 08:06 | Anyway, let me search for the bug #...
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| 08:06 | <ogra> or that
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| 08:07 | in any case mountall shouldnt be ignored, it confuses people
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| 08:07 | <alincoln> alkisg: 505787?
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| 08:07 | <alkisg> alincoln: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/505787
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| 08:07 | <alincoln> rock on.
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| 08:07 | alkisg: thanks.
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| 08:07 | <alkisg> alincoln: the easiest way to fix it is to put "-n" as a parameter to pgrep in your current ltsp_config,
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| 08:07 | and run ltsp-update-image.
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| 08:08 | Or just wait for 3-4 days until stgraber releases the committed version
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| 08:08 | <stgraber> alincoln: it's a known issue, use my PPA on Lucid to get an upstream snapshot of ldm and ltsp
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| 08:08 | alincoln: I plan to upload that to Lucid this week
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| 08:09 | <alincoln> stgraber: thanks. alkisg pointed me to the better bug report
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| 09:10 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 09:14 | <Gadi> !s
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| 09:14 | <ltspbot> Gadi: "s" :: Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 09:17 | <sbalneav> Morning Gadi
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| 09:17 | <vmlintu> sbalneav: hi.. did you end up hearing anything from pam_envfeed?
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| 09:31 | <sbalneav> vmlintu: Yeah, made contact with the fellow. I offered to add configure.ac & autotools which would aid greatly with packaging, and he indicated he "hated them and didn't want them", so I haven't looked at it since :)
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| 09:34 | <vmlintu> sounds like it's about time to create a new project to provide the functionality
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| 09:40 | Somehow nowadays I'm writing more and more code that is run in pam stack.. Probably I'll end up coding tetris or something using pam soon.. ;)
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| 09:41 | <ogra> "win this tetris round to log in or type a valid password now"
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| 09:42 | <vmlintu> or maybe nethack
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| 09:51 | <alincoln> is there anything in particular, e.g. a known bug, that I can dig into? you all know better where current efforts are now and where help is needed most. any advice?
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| 09:52 | <ogra> alincoln, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp or if you want to work on distro specific stuff https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp
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| 09:52 | <alincoln> ogra: just pick?
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| 09:52 | <ogra> yeah
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| 09:52 | <alincoln> can do.
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| 09:53 | <ogra> if you have quaetions, sbalneav, stgraber or alkisg should be able to help
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| 09:53 | (or patches :) )
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| 09:55 | <alincoln> cool
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| 09:56 | <alkisg> alincoln: or testing of new features/versions etc :)
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| 09:57 | <alincoln> alkisg: yep, been trying on ubuntu 10.04, and now on stephane's PPA. but are there other PPAs/experimental things i should be monitoring?
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| 09:58 | <ogra> stephane ususally package the packages in his PPA in advance for testing
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| 09:58 | <alkisg> alincoln: for example, 10.04 has fat client support, it's still new and needs testing
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| 09:58 | <ogra> so thats your best place
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| 09:59 | <alincoln> sounds good.
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| 10:02 | <dro> alkisg: hmmm so a fat client with localapps or no?
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| 10:02 | <alkisg> dro: a fat client is a "standalone workstation that only uses the ltsp server as a networked disk"
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| 10:02 | <dro> alkisg: very interesting
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| 10:03 | nas ftw
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| 10:03 | alkisg: that will be interesting, especially in a vmware setup
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| 10:04 | <alkisg> dro: I'm really looking forward to use this to schools
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| 10:04 | <dro> a lot of my clients are buying a new setup from called, called an equalizer box, that is a giant nas/vmware server
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| 10:04 | <alkisg> I.e. maintaining only one chroot and booting e.g. 12 clients off of it
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| 10:04 | <dro> *wonders if ubuntu can do iscsi*
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| 10:05 | <alkisg> dro: authentication also happens as usually in LTSP, with ldm, and the home directory is mounted with ssh, so it's much better than nas
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| 10:05 | You keep the centralized authentication/home features of ltsp
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| 10:05 | <dro> cool
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| 10:09 | <ogra> dro, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/IscsiEcryptfs
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| 10:09 | was just added yesterday afaik
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| 10:09 | <dro> ogra: sweeeeeet I'll add that to favorites
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| 10:09 | <ogra> heh
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| 10:10 | dro, i think pmatulis would appreciate tester feedback ;)
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| 10:10 | <dro> ogra: I'll make sure to test and let him know
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| 10:10 | <ogra> cool !
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| 10:11 | <pmatulis> ogra, dro: me like feedback!
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| 10:11 | <dro> pmatulis: :P
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| 10:11 | if I don't get to it today then I'll do it tonight
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| 10:12 | I'm just stoked because I guess the thought that I could build a iscsi server out of ubuntu never crossed my mind
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| 10:12 | I hate traditional sans
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| 10:13 | pmatulis: would you prefer me to test on 9.10 or 10.04
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| 10:14 | <pmatulis> dro: best go for 9.10 for now
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| 10:14 | <dro> pmatulis: cool i was hoping you would say that
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| 11:20 | <Gadi> alkisg: wouldn't you prefer to use the same chroot for fat clients and thin (and doesnt your last commit make that more difficult)?
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| 11:20 | <alkisg> Gadi, no, it makes it easier :)
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| 11:21 | Here are my thoughts:
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| 11:21 | (we talked about it in #edubuntu)
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| 11:22 | If a user specifies --fat-client, he either wants to (1) use a mixed mode lab (what you said above) or (2) only use fat clients
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| 11:22 | If he wants to use a mixed mode lab, he'll HAVE to have an lts.conf, to seperate the PCs
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| 11:22 | So in that lts.conf he can put whatever default he wants, depending on if he has more thin clients or fat clients:
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| 11:22 | [Default]
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| 11:22 | LTSP_FATCLIENT=False
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| 11:22 | [PowerfulPC]
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| 11:23 | LTSP_FATCLIENT=True
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| 11:23 | So no difference in that mixed mode case.
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| 11:23 | Now, if the user only wants fat clients, with the patch I just committed, he doesn't have to specify an lts.conf
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| 11:23 | So in that case, we make it easier for him
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| 11:24 | ==> there's an advantage in one use case, with no disadvantages in other cases
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| 11:24 | Right?
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| 11:26 | <Gadi> gotcha - I guess you just need to document that you can use a fat client chroot and still have some clients connect as thin clients by using LTSP_FATCLIENT=False
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| 11:26 | <alkisg> There are two "echo"s there that are supposed to notify the user... :D
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| 11:27 | ...but my communication abilities in English are limited, could someone express it better? :(
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| 11:27 | <Gadi> well, echos notwithstanding it should be in a document that the admin can refer back to
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| 11:27 | :)
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| 11:27 | <alkisg> man lts.conf ?
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| 11:27 | <Gadi> also - it is an ubuntu-only plugin, right?
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| 11:28 | <alkisg> Right now, yes, but I don't see why other distros could not do something similar
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| 11:28 | <Gadi> so, for now the ubuntu wiki should suffice
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| 11:28 | <alkisg> OK, I'll put up a page under UbuntuLTSP/ after the first Lucid beta
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| 11:29 | We could describe the whole concept there I guess....
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| 11:31 | <Gadi> alkisg: have you had anyone work on an LTSP fatclient for a while? are there any issues over time?
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| 11:33 | <alkisg> Gadi, I've been given a leave of absense to do my phd, so I won't be in classrooms for a while. Nevertheless, I'm a member of a technical support team, and we tested it in a lab of 10 PCs with variable specs, and it worked perfectly except for some sound problems which were also present when the clients booted as normal thin clients.
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| 11:33 | <Gadi> cool
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| 11:33 | phd in what?
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| 11:33 | <alkisg> Teaching informatics :)
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| 11:34 | (pedagogical)
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| 11:34 | <Gadi> interesting
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| 11:35 | <alkisg> There are some teachers willing to test that plugin though, and I told them to wait until stgraber ships the next ltsp version. So I guess we'll have much feedback in a couple of weeks.
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| 11:36 | I was impressed by the nbd speed, my daughters atom boots in less than 30" with a full blown desktop. Games, googleearth etc everything working flawlessly
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| 11:37 | <Gadi> yeah - of course all this mucking with the chroot means we really need to improve our chroot-mangling interfaces
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| 11:37 | :)
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| 11:39 | personally, I would prefer fewer chroot-building plugins and more deb packages that can be installed into an existing chroot at any time
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| 11:39 | like an ltsp-fatclient package
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| 11:40 | <alkisg> Well... how would it install e.g. edubuntu-desktop then?
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| 11:40 | <Gadi> well, you could have: ltsp-fatclient-ubuntu, ltsp-fat-client-edubuntu, ltsp-fatclient-xubuntu
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| 11:40 | if you wanted
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| 11:40 | and it would pull everything in and set things up
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| 11:40 | so, I build just a regular chroot
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| 11:41 | and if I want it to be a fatclient, I say: ltsp-install ltsp-fatclient-edubuntu
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| 11:41 | and off it goes
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| 11:42 | <alkisg> Now it's 30 lines of code, and most of them are there to workaround problems that shouldn't be handled from there
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| 11:43 | So it would be e.g. 20 lines of code
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| 11:43 | By making 3 packages to do that, complexity is added
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| 11:43 | It does have pros and cons...
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| 11:43 | <Gadi> agreed
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| 11:44 | its just nice to add/remove from an existing chroot
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| 11:44 | as opposed to rebuilding from scratch
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| 11:45 | <alkisg> The fat client script basically adds some blacklisted packages, which should be there even if it isn't installed
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| 11:46 | So I guess one could just do apt-get install edubuntu-desktop or whatever else, and it could work with no plugins or packages whatsoever
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| 11:46 | And then purge them at will
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| 12:08 | * _UsUrPeR_ returns from the dentist | |
| 12:08 | <_UsUrPeR_> mah face is ded!
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| 12:08 | <knipwim> enjoy it while it lasts
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| 12:10 | <_UsUrPeR_> :)
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| 12:10 | <alincoln> shouldn't that emoticon be a little different?
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| 12:10 | make one side saggy
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| 12:10 | <ogra> :S
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| 12:10 | <alincoln> hah
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| 12:14 | <_UsUrPeR_> :E
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| 12:16 | <Lns> _UsUrPeR_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txqiwrbYGrs <-- you? ;)
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| 12:17 | <_UsUrPeR_> Lns: Is this real life?
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| 12:17 | 'cause now I'm holding up 4 fingers
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| 12:17 | <Lns> hahaha
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| 12:57 | <CAN-o-SPAM> afternoon everyone!
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| 12:59 | <Lns> hey CAN-o-SPAM
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| 13:00 | <dro> good afternoon
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| 14:15 | <_UsUrPeR_> hey all
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| 14:15 | quick question about an LTSP server configuration I am working with at the moment
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| 14:18 | <_UsUrPeR_> I have two eth interfaces. ETH0 is on the "cloud", and the dhcp server (192.168.1.1) is pointing all DHCP pxe booting computers on our network towards ETH0
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| 14:18 | ETH1 is an internal network on another subnet
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| 14:20 | and is serving DHCP for all clients on ETH1
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| 14:21 | booting clients on eth0 is working fine, but booting clients off eth1 are not receiving TFTP from the server.
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| 14:21 | is using both interfaces a problem?
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| 14:23 | <dro> _UsUrPeR_: what do you have for next-server in your dhcp config
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| 14:24 | <_UsUrPeR_> dro: next server has been commented.
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| 14:25 | * _UsUrPeR_ puts proper stuff in | |
| 14:25 | <_UsUrPeR_> hmm
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| 14:25 | <dro> _UsUrPeR_: I don't see why it wouldn't work, unless something is only listening on eth0, and not eth1
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| 14:26 | <_UsUrPeR_> see, that's what I am thinking. I'm not sure why it would be an issue, so I want to make sure there's no special circumstances with two interfaces
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| 14:27 | <dro> _UsUrPeR_: I know when I used the alt cd install for ubuntu, with a server that has 2 nic's, that one nic seemed to be dedicatd to tftp/ltsp and the other for internet access
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| 14:28 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: did you tell dhcp to only listen on eth0?
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| 14:28 | (cat /etc/default/dhcp3-server or something like that)
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| 14:28 | (or dpkg-reconfigure dhcp3-server - don't do it, I'm just asking if you already did)
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| 14:29 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: naw. I have not touched default settings
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| 14:29 | dhcp actually works fine
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| 14:30 | It's just tftp that is not working
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| 14:30 | <alkisg> You mean that the clients do accept and address and try to download from the tftp server, and fail?
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| 14:30 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: correct
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| 14:31 | <alkisg> Is that Karmic?
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| 14:31 | <_UsUrPeR_> yes
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| 14:32 | <alkisg> You can try installing tftp-hpa (the client, not the server) on a PC, and then try to download pxelinux.0 from the server manually
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| 14:32 | <_UsUrPeR_> good call
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| 14:32 | lemme give that a shot
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| 14:32 | <alkisg> tftp server-ip
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| 14:32 | bin
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| 14:32 | get ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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| 14:45 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: whoops. old bridge left around :/
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| 14:46 | <alkisg> :)
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| 14:46 | <_UsUrPeR_> brctl delif <thing> <stuff>
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| 14:53 | <dro> lol
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| 15:40 | <coordinador> hi, i have a problem, im chrooted and when i want to install anything with apt-get i get "keytool: error while loading shared libraries: libjli.so:"
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| 15:41 | and "error adding mozilla 'something' " like "error adding mozilla/GeoTrust_Global_CA_2.crt"
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| 15:58 | <akuepker> Running Ubuntu 9.10 with pre-packaged LTSP5. I have an app that is expecting to forward to port 6000 on my terminals from a remote server (not the terminal server). I realize that this isn't remotely ideal. Is there a way to accomodate this up on the terminals and still run most of the X traffic through the ssh tunnels?
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| 16:13 | <Gadi> akuepker: you need to allow that App access to the Xserver
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| 16:13 | either by sharing the xauthority token
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| 16:13 | or (gasp) opening up the display to be written to without authentication
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| 16:13 | <akuepker> yeah, not keen on the latter.
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| 16:14 | I don't understand the xauthority stuff very well. should perhaps dig into that further.
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| 16:15 | <Gadi> the token is stored in ~/.Xauthority
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| 16:15 | <akuepker> which is about all I know =)
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| 16:15 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 16:15 | well, you can use xauth to allow a user from a particular computer to write to the display
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| 16:16 | <akuepker> thankfully I just found out that 3 people need it, not the 35 I'd feared. A little easier to deal with that.
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| 16:16 | Thanks Gadi!
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| 18:32 | <kaos01> hi im having problems with local device, it seems that /dev/sdb instead of /dev/sdb1 is mounted on the client
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| 20:11 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 20:12 | <stgraber> hey sbalneav
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