IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 November 2008 (all times are UTC)
| 00:00 | <johnny> i didn't mean for the x part.. but the file serving part
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| 00:01 | altho .. of course.. if it isn't in sshd source directly.. it can't be that useful to any of us
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| 00:01 | <sbalneav> Well, the file serving part doesn't run through ssh
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| 00:01 | <johnny> not now
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| 00:01 | somebody recommended i try it.. due to the speed
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| 00:01 | vagrantc has quit IRC | |
| 00:01 | <johnny> nbd is probably faster tho
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| 00:03 | <Ryan52> chrisinajar, brendan0powers: I fixed the qt greeter! It now logs me in to my happy little KDE desktop!
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| 00:03 | <chrisinajar> Ryan52: oh, awesome! What was wrong with it? Was it LDM or Greeter side?
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| 00:04 | i haven't had time to work on it, like.. at all :(
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| 00:04 | <sbalneav> Ryan52: pix plz kthxbye
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| 00:04 | <Ryan52> chrisinajar, it was both.
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| 00:04 | <chrisinajar> sbalneav: this is a 4chan free zone.
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| 00:04 | Ryan52: i don't doubt that at all... what was wrong with the qt side? it seemed to work fine in our tests...
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| 00:05 | <Ryan52> chrisinajar, the ldm side of the changes had lotsa problems, the only problem in the greeter itself was a copy and paste error, nothing big.
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| 00:05 | <sbalneav> they were saying THAT back in the compuserve days, son.
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| 00:05 | <chrisinajar> sbalneav: now != compuserve days
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| 00:05 | :-
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| 00:05 | <Ryan52> chrisinajar: when you copied and pasted for the sending the language, you forgot to change "username" to "language" so it was resetting the username to the language, which made login fail.
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| 00:05 | <chrisinajar> P
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| 00:05 | haha
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| 00:05 | <Ryan52> you meaning one of you :)
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| 00:05 | <chrisinajar> that's funny...
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| 00:05 | Brendan
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| 00:05 | <sbalneav> Look, if I can't use outdated memes, you're taking away the only fun I have.
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| 00:06 | <chrisinajar> Brendan wrote most of the greeter... i wrote the StdIO class and did the ldm stuff...
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| 00:06 | hahaha, ok fine sbalneav, have your fun :-P
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| 00:06 | But I'll just make xkcd references and make you feel old, just warning you...
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| 00:06 | <sbalneav> Ryan52: how much protocol change was there.
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| 00:07 | xkcd's great fun.
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| 00:07 | <chrisinajar> i love it :)
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| 00:07 | <Ryan52> sbalneav: the whole thing :). they said they showed it to you...
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| 00:07 | <chrisinajar> geohashing == teh roxxing
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| 00:07 | at least we tried...
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| 00:07 | <sbalneav> yeahm briefly, but it'll be gubbins here who'll have to patch up the gtk greeeeeeeter
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| 00:08 | <chrisinajar> lets just now use the gtk greeter :-D
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| 00:08 | <sbalneav> Sigh, I'll need to do that before we can merge into -trunk
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| 00:08 | <Ryan52> sbalneav: do what? huh?
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| 00:08 | <chrisinajar> once we get themeing working, i'll write a theme to look just like the old one...
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| 00:09 | <sbalneav> Well, since the greeter protocol changed, we'll have to modify the gtk greeter before we can merge in the qt greeter into the trunk, so they can both work and be interchangeable
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| 00:09 | <Ryan52> chrisinajar: there are some other GUI issues that I want to convince you to fix. first of all, if the display isn't 800 by 600, the whole thing isn't centered. second, the language/host/session lists should show some indication as to which one is currently choosen (that's minor, though), third I'll remember later :). mainly the first one is important.
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| 00:10 | sbalneav: ya, I've already committed to fixing the gtk greeter.
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| 00:10 | <chrisinajar> Ryan52: indeed, that's planned... gui is HORRIBLE right now...
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| 00:10 | <Ryan52> chrisinajar: okay, good. :)
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| 00:10 | <sbalneav> Oh!
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| 00:10 | <chrisinajar> Ryan52: just completely ignore it.. it's fucking awful, it's entirely just for prototyping...
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| 00:10 | <sbalneav> Thought I was doing it.
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| 00:10 | Nevermind. Carry on seargent major.
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| 00:11 | <chrisinajar> yeah, Ryan52 is the man...
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| 00:11 | he makes the world go 'round
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| 00:11 | s/world/ldm/g
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| 00:11 | <Ryan52> chrisinajar: no, really, that's sbalneav.
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| 00:12 | <sbalneav> I'm in the early stages of pulling together some developer docs. So far, they mainly consist of my grumpy indent style rantings, and a Norweigian drinking song
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| 00:12 | <chrisinajar> Ryan52: yeah but you fixed all my not-knowing-how-to-write-in-any-library-with-a-g-in-it code...
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| 00:12 | <sbalneav> but I'd like to get a formalized "greeter interface spec" put together, and in the doco branch.
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| 00:12 | <chrisinajar> sbalneav: both of those things happened in copeous amounts last weekend!
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| 00:13 | sbalneav: i believe i already have that written up :)
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| 00:13 | <sbalneav> Which, the song, or my indent rantings?
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| 00:13 | <chrisinajar> both happened, and i have the specs written up already
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| 00:13 | you can organize however you like, i dare not question
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| 00:13 | <sbalneav> Cool. Text file? or docbook?
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| 00:14 | <chrisinajar> textfile, completely flat
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| 00:14 | <Ryan52> chrisinajar: I suggest a small change, though. instead of sending "username @GUEST@", it should just send a command called "guest". previously we couldn't do that because the protocol sucked, but now it's all nice. :)
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| 00:14 | <sbalneav> Bonus, a tabula rasa for me to bend to my iron will.
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| 00:14 | <chrisinajar> Ryan52: good call, that'll be easy to implement.
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| 00:15 | <sbalneav> send it to me, that I might defile it with my idiosyncratic tabbing style.
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| 00:15 | sbalneav@ltsp.org
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| 00:15 | <chrisinajar> Ryan52: there isn't a guest button right now, to the best of my knowledge....
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| 00:15 | Ryan52: but the support for that peice is in there
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| 00:15 | <Ryan52> that's good.
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| 00:15 | * chrisinajar boots up laptop to get the docs | |
| 00:16 | <sbalneav> thankee
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| 00:16 | <Ryan52> chrisinajar: is the qt greeter getting the lists of sessions and languages and such from ldminfo or what?
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| 00:16 | <sbalneav> My eyelids are getting heavy, and I've an allday system upgrade tomorrow.
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| 00:16 | <chrisinajar> i'll go through and make sure they're accurate, and add the guest idea...
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| 00:16 | <sbalneav> I'm off to bed.
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| 00:16 | night all
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| 00:16 | <Ryan52> sbalneav, night
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| 00:16 | <chrisinajar> Ryan52: i think from some file that scott told us to get it from...
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| 00:16 | sbalneav: good night
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| 00:17 | i'll have some free time tomorrow night in boston, i might go through and clean up some of the qt code and implement the guest function...
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| 00:18 | Ryan52: so should guest be sent in place of login?
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| 00:18 | <Ryan52> yes, it should.
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| 00:18 | <chrisinajar> Ryan52: so it sends session, language, then "guest"
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| 00:18 | <Ryan52> yes. that and the host. and the button should only be shown if a certain environment variable is set.
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| 00:19 | * Ryan52 forgets which...look at the docs :) | |
| 00:19 | <Ryan52> I only implemented the code! I don't remember it! :P
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| 00:19 | <chrisinajar> haha
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| 00:19 | ok, well whenever you figure out that variable i'll make note and implement it at some point...
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| 00:20 | i'm good at reading brendan's code, so it should be a problem at all
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| 00:20 | er... shouldn't
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| 00:21 | <Ryan52> the var is LDM_GUESTLOGIN. treat it like src/ldm_getenv_bool.c does.
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| 00:21 | <chrisinajar> ok
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| 00:21 | <Ryan52> chrisinajar: why is the directory called qtgreet while the binary produced is called qtgreeter? I think it should be qtgreet since the gtk one is called gtkgreet. mind if I change it?
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| 00:22 | <chrisinajar> Ryan52: go for it, any and all build related stuff you have complete freedom to do whatever
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| 00:23 | we're just amazed we got it to built at all under autotools
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| 00:23 | <Ryan52> heh. I know, autotools is complicated.
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| 00:23 | chrisinajar: oh, there's also the problem that the greeter can't talk to X when it's being ran as nobody. so I just disabled the function that changes user. do you have any idea how to fix that nicely?
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| 00:24 | <chrisinajar> Ryan52: have a generic "greeter" user built into the chroot, and setuid to that...
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| 00:24 | it's not needed anyway, it's just a security measure...
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| 00:25 | <Ryan52> well, X is started as root, so other users can't talk to it.
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| 00:25 | it's not specific to nobody.
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| 00:25 | (I think)
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| 00:25 | <chrisinajar> oh
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| 00:25 | can X be started by nobody?
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| 00:25 | i don't think it can...
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| 00:25 | <Ryan52> no, because ldm runs under x.
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| 00:26 | oh, hrm.
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| 00:26 | the X running on my (normal) laptop is running as root.
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| 00:26 | maybe we just need to pass it an option or something.
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| 00:26 | <chrisinajar> and non-root things are running on it....
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| 00:26 | <Ryan52> yes, I do not log in as root :P
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| 00:26 | <chrisinajar> lemme send this email to sbalneav really quick....
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| 00:31 | ok, protocol updated and sent to scott...
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| 00:31 | <johnny> ok.. sweet
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| 00:31 | genkernel now has funionfs-fuse support
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| 00:32 | <Ryan52> chrisinajar: when we attempt to merge into trunk latter down the line, try to remind me to either remove or i18n-ize my debug statements.
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| 00:32 | <chrisinajar> i'll see what i can do :-P
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| 00:33 | I'm pumped to write the theming... it's going to be cool...
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| 00:33 | it will support our custom ini format in addition to optional qt stylesheets...
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| 00:35 | <Ryan52> oh, you should really use an/set up an editor that points out empty lines/trailing whitespace to you.
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| 00:35 | ltsp-upstream has a problem with that.
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| 00:35 | but the Qt code is horrible.
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| 00:35 | (wrt to trailing whitespace)
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| 00:35 | <chrisinajar> i know
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| 00:35 | it was written while a little drunk and not much sleep
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| 00:35 | brendan's code is ugly as is, i always go through and clean it up
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| 00:35 | <Ryan52> oh, ok, that's a good enough excuse then. :)
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| 00:36 | <chrisinajar> it's incomplete and messy right now...
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| 00:41 | <chrisinajar> Good night!
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| 00:41 | <Ryan52> bye!
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| 00:42 | <chrisinajar> Ryan52: I'll try to get some stuff done tomorrow on the qt greeter...
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| 00:42 | <Ryan52> kk
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| 00:55 | <Ryan52> gah. ruby broke me. I'm using " instead of ' for characters
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| 02:02 | <Ryan52> okay, enough toying with the qt branch for one night. time for sleep.
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| 03:34 | <laga> hey guys.
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| 05:27 | <alkisg> Does anyone know of some script to execute a command for all users? E.g. it would enable non-experienced-admins to do something like: forallusers.sh "chown -R $USERNAME:$USERGROUP $USERHOME"
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| 05:39 | <nubae> alkisg: yup... found one online a while ago...
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| 05:39 | <alkisg> nubae, I was just going to make one... save me some hours and find the link, please? :)
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| 05:43 | <ogra> and keep you from learning ?
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| 05:43 | :)
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| 05:45 | <alkisg> ogra, not for me... I'm writing a small tutorial about LTSP for Greek teachers, and I'm trying to make things easy for them
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| 05:45 | ogra, it'll be about 100 pages, full from installation to backups and user management... but teachers are not admins, so I'm looking to make this as easy as possible
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| 05:48 | What do you guys think of webmin? (I've never used it). E.g. if it's as good as it sounds, we could probably do an ltsp-configuration plugin for it
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| 05:54 | <nubae> ls /home | while read user
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| 05:54 | do
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| 05:54 | chown -R $user:$user /home/$user || chown -R root:wheel /home/$user
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| 05:54 | done
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| 05:54 | webmin is great... although lots of ubuntu people hate it
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| 05:55 | ubuntu server devs I mean by that
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| 05:55 | they talk of ebox, which is really horrible... takes over absolutely everything, very intrusive
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| 05:56 | webmin on the other hand just allows u to edit the same config files through a web panel
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| 05:58 | <alkisg> nubae, thanks... but I was talking about a general script, that would handle all commands (not just chown) and provide environment variables like $USERGROUP, $USERHOME etc for each user, so that it would make building new command easier
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| 05:58 | e.g. forallusers.sh "rm -rf $USERHOME/.gconf/apps/panel" to reset all the user panels
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| 05:59 | <ogra> ?
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| 05:59 | <alkisg> So it would provide USERHOME, USERGROUP, USERNAME, USERREALNAME etc...
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| 05:59 | <ogra> thats not how gconf works
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| 06:00 | you cant just delete files
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| 06:00 | <alkisg> ogra, ? :)
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| 06:00 | (I'm a bad admin, that's how I do it!!! - what's the appropriate way?)
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| 06:00 | <ogra> you can delete the whole dir and the whole db and cache, but for changing values use gconftool
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| 06:01 | <alkisg> So it's either rm ~/.gconf or gconftool? I'm not supposed to delete dirs inside .gconf?
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| 06:02 | <ogra> right
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| 06:03 | there are options like --unset --recursive for gconftool as well :)
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| 06:03 | <alkisg> ogra, so if users messed up their panels pretty bad (added/removed buttons, changed panel position etc) and an admin wants to reset all that, he would have to user gconftool for every panel* configuration... :( This sucks!:P
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| 06:04 | ogra, thanks, I'll have to study before writing the manual! :'(
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| 06:04 | <ogra> no, if an admin wants to make sure the users dont mess with the panels he locks them down with pessulus ;)
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| 06:04 | and wont have to clean up at all
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| 06:05 | <alkisg> Ah... many things I don't know about linux/ltsp/gnome/ubuntu/etc etc yet... Damn all those windows-wasted years
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| 06:05 | <ogra> sudo pessulus ... make the keys you dont wnat changed default and mandatory ... and be done
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| 06:07 | <nubae> thats hindsight
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| 06:07 | :-)
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| 06:08 | <alkisg> Yeap... I'd give many $$$ for 1-2 hours of private lessons by ogra! :D
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| 06:11 | <nubae> yeah hear hear
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| 06:11 | ogra: any plans on a ltsp tuition :D
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| 06:11 | I'm sure a bunch of us would pay u good money for something like that
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| 06:12 | <ogra> well, isnt the documentation getting there slowly ?
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| 06:12 | <nubae> well thats for users, but for devs...
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| 06:13 | <ogra> for devs: "read the code"
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| 06:13 | if you dont understand the written code you wont be able to change it ...
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| 06:13 | <nubae> right... but read the code along with ogra seems like a better approach :D
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| 08:24 | <alkisg> nubae, here's a good start: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?topic=1645.0
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| 08:24 | Save the script with name="forallusers" and do a chmod +x, then run it with e.g. forallusers chown -R USER_NAME:USER_GROUP USER_HOME
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| 08:25 | It doesn't execute anything, it just generates a script, and you may see it, edit it or execute it later
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| 10:29 | <stgraber> Is it correct to assume that all distro with localapp support and who would like to use the localapps menu will have ltsp-localapps in $PATH ?
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| 10:30 | <johnny> ltsp-localapps goes in /usr/bin.. so yes
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| 10:30 | <stgraber> johnny: Ubuntu didn't have it in /usr/bin, I only moved it there in my current package
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| 10:30 | <johnny> hmm.. where did it have it?
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| 10:31 | <stgraber> /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/ltsp-localapps
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| 10:31 | <johnny> ok.. yeah
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| 10:31 | i guess ogra didn't feel it was ready to actually put in /usr/bin yet, since it is not properly integrated
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| 10:32 | <stgraber> yeah
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| 10:32 | <ogra> stgraber, feel free to move it
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| 10:33 | <stgraber> btw, any of you knows an icon name we can use in a .desktop file for shutdown and reboot that'd be the same for at least gnome and KDE ?
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| 10:33 | we currently use gnome-session-halt but it just doesn't work with KDE (get the unknown file type icon instead)
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| 10:34 | <ogra> have a look at hicolor
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| 10:34 | probably you find something
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| 10:34 | but that breaks themeing for the gtk side
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| 10:35 | <stgraber> is there a way to set a fallback icon in a .desktop file ?
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| 10:36 | <ogra> thats usually handled by the theme engine
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| 10:36 | i think you will need different dependencies for the different desktops ... wont work without
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| 10:38 | <stgraber> ogra: that's for the localapps menu in ltsp-client so not on the server side ... best would be to have the same icon name existing in both Human/gnome and hicolor/kde
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| 10:38 | <johnny> for now..
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| 10:38 | it'll be nice when we can just rely on sending the dbus signal and have the same thing for both..
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| 10:38 | <ogra> that wont work
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| 10:39 | johnny, heh, so implement a ssh transport in dbus :)
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| 10:39 | <johnny> ogra, talk to chrisinajar a out that :)
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| 10:39 | about*
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| 10:39 | i mentioned it to him last night, he sounded interested
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| 10:39 | <chrisinajar> talk about what?
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| 10:39 | <ogra> in ssh hacking ?
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| 10:39 | <johnny> the dbus stuff chrisinajar remember? :)
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| 10:40 | <chrisinajar> oh yeah
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| 10:40 | <ogra> chrisinajar, getting us the missing ssh transport for dbus
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| 10:40 | <chrisinajar> doing it over ssh is a bad idea, i think
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| 10:40 | <ogra> so it can attch to the system bus on the clinet through the ssh tunnel
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| 10:40 | i dont see another way
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| 10:40 | <stgraber> ogra: well, I'm already using some extra fields for my .desktop, I can probably have several icon set in extra field for each DM and then set the right one depending on LDM_SESSION's value
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| 10:40 | <ogra> at least not without making dbus insecure
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| 10:41 | <chrisinajar> i suggested just writing a simple tcp protocol to relay the messages, but i don't know dbus well enough to really know what i'm talking about :-P
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| 10:41 | <johnny> it already does tcp
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| 10:41 | <ogra> stgraber, cant you have different .desktop files depending on the desktop env ?
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| 10:41 | and how do you secure that ?
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| 10:41 | <johnny> just not securely as far as i can tell
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| 10:41 | <chrisinajar> yeah but with optional ssl and authentication
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| 10:41 | <ogra> it has to be either through X or ssh
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| 10:41 | <stgraber> ogra: yeah but /etc/ltsp/localapps-menu/ would become a real mess :)
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| 10:41 | <chrisinajar> i just have using ssh for anything that isn't done manually
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| 10:42 | *hate
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| 10:42 | <ogra> well
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| 10:42 | all of ltsp uses ssh up to date
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| 10:42 | <chrisinajar> haha. that's true.
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| 10:42 | <ogra> opening another port is just messy
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| 10:42 | make dbus communicate over X :)
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| 10:42 | <chrisinajar> that is true
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| 10:43 | <ogra> and drop the localapps stuff from X
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| 10:43 | <chrisinajar> so how would one go about relaying over ssh?
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| 10:43 | <ogra> then make localapps communicate over dbus :)
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| 10:43 | <chrisinajar> how does ltsp do localapps? I've read a bunch of different ways to do it... what's the "standard" for ltsp?
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| 10:43 | <ogra> it sets xatoms on the root window
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| 10:44 | these get picked up by a daemon on the client
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| 10:44 | make that daemon a dbus client that attaches to the system bus on the client
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| 10:45 | the prob you get with dbus are the implementations on the desktop session side
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| 10:45 | <chrisinajar> so do the localapps need to be installed on the chroot?
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| 10:45 | <stgraber> yes
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| 10:45 | <ogra> for both big desktops
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| 10:45 | because they expect a unix domain socket
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| 10:45 | nothing in gnome or kde can handle it differently yet
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| 10:45 | chrisinajar, right
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| 10:46 | thats what defines a localapp :) it runs locally
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| 10:46 | <chrisinajar> indeed
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| 10:47 | <ogra> the communication system that was developed for localapps should have been done as a dbus client though
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| 10:47 | with the same xatom functionallity but differently plugged on both sides
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| 10:48 | * ogra thinks he should bribe sbalneav to change it :) | |
| 10:48 | <chrisinajar> just write a better one, he'll probably take it :-P
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| 10:49 | <ogra> not better
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| 10:49 | its good already
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| 10:49 | but differently plugged
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| 10:49 | the transport model is great
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| 10:49 | only the endpoints are just reinventing the wheel
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| 10:50 | with some modifications we might get the missing dbus functions from it
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| 10:51 | the big plus is that you already have full security in the transport
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| 10:51 | either through the ssh X proxy or through xauth ... depending what encryption level you use
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| 10:53 | <chrisinajar> well, if it has plusses, without any real downfalls, i would call that better :-P
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| 10:53 | <ogra> i dont think it has downfalls apart from the fact that a lot of stuff needs to be made dbus aware
| |
| 10:54 | it adds another level of complexity to localapps
| |
| 10:54 | but eases the implementation of future functionallity
| |
| 10:55 | as soon as yu have dbus you only need to send dbus messages for anything you wnat to add between client and server
| |
| 10:55 | and add a service file to the dbus on the client
| |
| 10:55 | the thing is that we didnt have either dbis or hal in the chroots until X required it
| |
| 10:56 | that changed recently so the opportunity is there for free now
| |
| 10:59 | <stgraber> ogra: bah, let's just implement that at UDS. If we have scotty around it's just a matter of one or two evenings :)
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| 10:59 | <ogra> and ten to twenty beer :)
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| 11:00 | <stgraber> of course
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| 11:00 | <jammcq> if scotty goes to uds, he'll prolly only have 1 evening
| |
| 11:00 | <ogra> only ten beer then
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| 11:00 | <jammcq> heh
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| 11:00 | <ogra> :)
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| 11:12 | <vvinet> beer? :o
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| 11:15 | <stgraber> hey vvinet
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| 11:16 | <vvinet> allo :)
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| 11:16 | <johnny> beepbeep
| |
| 11:16 | dberkholz, the funionfs-fuse implementation is in genkernel now
| |
| 11:17 | dberkholz, can you find a way to bug agaffney and/or wolf32o1 to implement the config patch? so we can get some network modules in the kernel???
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| 11:17 | i need the power of donnie
| |
| 11:17 | err network modules in the initramfs
| |
| 11:48 | mikkel has quit IRC | |
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| 12:16 | alekibango has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:16 | <sbalneav> Ryan52: piiiiiiing
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| 12:16 | dirigeant has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:20 | <Ryan52> sbalneav: poooooooooooooong
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| 12:21 | <jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 12:22 | <ogra> !sssss
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| 12:22 | <ltspbot> ogra: Error: "sssss" is not a valid command.
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| 12:22 | <ogra> bah
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| 12:22 | !s
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| 12:22 | <ltspbot> ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 12:22 | <loather> "sssss" is, "sounds like steam escaping!"
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| 12:22 | <nubae> or the sound a snake makes
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| 12:23 | <loather> ever seen blazing saddles?
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| 12:23 | <nubae> nope
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| 12:24 | <sbalneav> hey jammcq
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| 12:24 | Ryan52: Soooooo.... segfault bug in your code :)
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| 12:25 | the g_strjoin you did, needs to end off with a NULL
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| 12:25 | <ogra> NULL is nothing ... so you can as well leave it :P
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| 12:25 | <sbalneav> g_strjoin("/", LDM_EXEC_DIR, greeter_path, NULL)
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| 12:25 | <rjune_> loather: mel brooks his a comedic genius
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| 12:26 | <Ryan52> sbalneav: oh, oops...umm...I tested it. how did I miss the seg fault? did you do something evil to it to make it seg fault?
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| 12:26 | <loather> rjune: yes :)
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| 12:27 | <sbalneav> Well, I'm here at work doing an upgrade, and figgured, since the new ldm's so much better than the one in hardy, I'd backport it.
| |
| 12:27 | didn't run so hot.
| |
| 12:27 | * sbalneav shrugs | |
| 12:27 | <sbalneav> no problem.
| |
| 12:27 | Want me to push a rev, or you?
| |
| 12:28 | <ogra> which one ? intrepid or latest upstream ?
| |
| 12:28 | <sbalneav> uppity stream
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| 12:28 | <ogra> ah
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| 12:28 | intrepid might have worked
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| 12:28 | <sbalneav> prolly, but I like slicing edge :)
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| 12:28 | <Ryan52> sbalneav: you can push, otherwise I will in a half hour (leaving for freegeek right now).
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| 12:29 | <ogra> did you see the discussion above btw ?
| |
| 12:29 | <rjune_> is that before or ahead of bleeding edge?
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| 12:29 | <sbalneav> dbus?
| |
| 12:29 | <ogra> well, making xrexecd a dbus client actually
| |
| 12:29 | <sbalneav> It's in the nanometer between the blade and the flesh :)
| |
| 12:29 | yeah
| |
| 12:30 | sounds like a plan. It's where we should be heading.
| |
| 12:30 | <ogra> great
| |
| 12:30 | * ogra wasnt sure the idea would be liked | |
| 12:30 | <sbalneav> Dude, I've been wanting dbus for like 2 years, I'm just to freakin' stoopid to figure it out.
| |
| 12:31 | I made a test dbus app one time, I'll dredge it out.
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| 12:31 | <ogra> but you wrote all that
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| 12:31 | <sbalneav> Wrote all what?
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| 12:31 | <ogra> we just need plugs on both ends
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| 12:31 | the transport of xrexecd
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| 12:31 | <sbalneav> phht, it's an xatom
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| 12:31 | that's hardly anything revolutionary :)
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| 12:32 | <ogra> yeah, so just put a dbus message into that atom :)
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| 12:32 | <sbalneav> right
| |
| 12:32 | Right, I'll just put a dbus message into that xatom. :)
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| 12:32 | While I'm at it, I'll just cure world hunger, too. :)
| |
| 12:33 | * ogra hands scottie a screwdriver and two radioshag dbus normed plugs | |
| 12:33 | <sbalneav> Why does everyone seem to think I'm so smart. Geez, haven't I proved over and over what a dolt I am?
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| 12:33 | Barbosa has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:33 | <ogra> oh, now that you say it
| |
| 12:33 | :P
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| 12:33 | <sbalneav> heh
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| 12:34 | Well, anyway
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| 12:34 | I'm gonna push up that rev, and get back to my upgrade
| |
| 12:34 | See you all on later tonight.
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| 12:34 | <ogra> ciao
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| 12:34 | <sbalneav> byeeeee
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| 12:36 | <rjune_> They say if you play a Microsoft CD backwards you hear satanic messages. That's nothing, because if you play it forwards it installs Windows.
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| 12:36 | <nubae> lol
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| 12:39 | hanthana has quit IRC | |
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| 12:46 | <loather> LOL
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| 12:52 | <johnny> does anybody know of an application like like top for network process usage?
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| 12:52 | ntop isn't what i expected i think
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| 12:52 | it runs a web server
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| 12:53 | <nubae> theres lots of top like utils, read a top 10 the other day
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| 12:53 | top was still voted #1
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| 12:53 | <johnny> nubae, i have a feature request for your fatclient thing
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| 12:53 | imo.. it should default to what lsb-release says
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| 12:54 | <nubae> but theres powertop, htop, ntop
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| 12:54 | artista_frustrad has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:54 | <johnny> ntop isn't like top at all
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| 12:54 | it requires a web interface
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| 12:54 | gonzaloaf_laptop has quit IRC | |
| 12:54 | <nubae> yeah I know
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| 12:54 | it still does similar things though
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| 12:54 | <johnny> lame
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| 12:54 | <nubae> not a web guy eh?
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| 12:54 | :-)
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| 12:55 | <johnny> i am.. but i don't want my top to work like that unless i'm using ipcop or something
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| 12:56 | <nubae> here they are... theres apachetop ptop dnstop iftop
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| 12:56 | mytop atop
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| 12:56 | and xrestop
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| 12:56 | as well as the first ones I mentioned
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| 12:56 | <johnny> i'd like to know what processes are using up all my bandwidth.. :)
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| 12:57 | <nubae> iftop then
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| 12:57 | <johnny> maybe iftop.. yeah
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| 12:57 | <nubae> sort connections by activity and bandwidth
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| 12:58 | xrestop is pretty neat too
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| 12:58 | shows x11 apps usage
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| 12:58 | pixmaps and stuff
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| 13:00 | <alkisg> johnny, also iptraf
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| 13:00 | <nubae> yeah but that doesn't end in top :p
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| 13:01 | <alkisg> heh :)
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| 13:02 | <nubae> so johnny what exactly do u mean by it should default to what lsb-release says?
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| 13:04 | <johnny> for ubuntu vs kubuntu
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| 13:04 | instead of specifying them on the cli
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| 13:04 | you shouldn't have to do --fatclient Ubuntu
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| 13:04 | just --fatclient
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| 13:04 | <nubae> oh yeah
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| 13:05 | sure, I'm gonna pull out kubuntu anyway
| |
| 13:05 | <johnny> really?
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| 13:05 | ok
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| 13:05 | <nubae> cant be bothered to support multiple distros
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| 13:05 | <ogra> the prob is that there is no distro called kubuntu
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| 13:05 | <johnny> ogra, oh..
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| 13:05 | <ogra> so no lsb entry
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| 13:05 | <johnny> oops
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| 13:05 | <ogra> kubuntu is ubuntu
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| 13:05 | its just an install flavour
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| 13:06 | <nubae> god canonical has really messed up the entire naming thing
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| 13:06 | <ogra> wasnt canonical
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| 13:06 | <nubae> edubuntu is not a distro, kubuntu is not lsb-release, all the non official ubuntus cant have ubuntu in the name
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| 13:06 | <ogra> kubuntu is a community creation of the debian kde team
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| 13:06 | <nubae> really?
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| 13:07 | <warren> Different Fedora like KDE, Games, Electronics Lab, K12Linux can all use Fedora in their name.
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| 13:07 | Why can't ubuntu?
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| 13:08 | <ogra> original kubuntu was designed by amu (andreas mueller) who did the kde package for debian, back during warty
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| 13:08 | <nubae> scared of too many variants I suppose
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| 13:08 | <ogra> warren, ask our marketing team
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| 13:08 | <nubae> heh, they're a little like the olpc marketing team ;-)
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| 13:08 | <warren> All of our media are just different installers for the same massive repo.
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| 13:08 | <ogra> but essentially they want all that is ubuntu being called ubuntu and the trademark being only used for that
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| 13:09 | chrisinajar has quit IRC | |
| 13:09 | <warren> even OLPC is just a pre-installed image of a different subset of fedora
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| 13:09 | <ogra> and since ubuntu includes kde as wel as the edu packages there is a desire of letting the brands die
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| 13:09 | <nubae> yep, though they call it olpcos
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| 13:09 | <ogra> you can call your distro as you like
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| 13:09 | even with ubuntu
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| 13:09 | chrisinajar has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:10 | <ogra> but if you use the trademark you have to ask for approval
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| 13:10 | <nubae> really? I heard they stopped distro using it
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| 13:10 | distros
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| 13:10 | yeah ok, but they wont approve anything anymore
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| 13:10 | <johnny> yes.. let the kubuntu brand die..
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| 13:10 | good
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| 13:11 | i always thought it was silly
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| 13:11 | <nubae> christian edition was allowed to use the name
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| 13:11 | <johnny> just trying to be helpful
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| 13:11 | <nubae> btu then there is satanic edition :-) which is not really approved
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| 13:11 | <johnny> that's unfair
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| 13:11 | <warren> discriminatoin!
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| 13:12 | <ogra> there are clear definitions what is ubuntu
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| 13:12 | <warren> brb
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| 13:12 | warren has quit IRC | |
| 13:12 | <nubae> the satanic version had some rather cool backgrounds too
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| 13:12 | <ogra> everything that is not ubuntu *may* use the name ubuntu but only with the suffix "remix" now
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| 13:14 | <johnny> ogra, christian it is not ..
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| 13:14 | <nubae> yeah thats an old one though
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| 13:15 | the exceptions
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| 13:15 | <johnny> they should be forced to rename it in the future
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| 13:15 | <ogra> i guess if it doesnt clash with existing products or you cant mix it up easily nobody wil complain
| |
| 13:15 | * johnny waits for the nvidia drivers to hit fedora10 somehow.. so they can include the fix for kernel 2.6.27 and the missing asm/semaphore | |
| 13:16 | <ogra> that wont happen
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| 13:16 | FC will not include nvidia
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| 13:16 | <johnny> obviously
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| 13:16 | i meant in the repos .. there is no /10/
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| 13:16 | <nubae> hey so the new meshing in the latest kernels is gonna be cool
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| 13:16 | <johnny> only /9/
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| 13:17 | <johnny> i bought this laptop in 2004.. where nvidia had the only decent 3d implementation
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| 13:17 | next time.. i won't have to do the same :)
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| 13:17 | <nubae> heh, yeah a year later ati is way ahead
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| 13:17 | well 2 years
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| 13:18 | <johnny> next time.. i can buy intel or ati :)
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| 13:18 | <jammcq> ati is ahead?
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| 13:18 | never heard that before
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| 13:18 | <nubae> a little... dont u think?
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| 13:18 | <johnny> ati doesn't match performance with nvidia 3d
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| 13:18 | but it is much more nicely integrated into distros
| |
| 13:18 | <nubae> more open
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| 13:18 | <johnny> jammcq, ati and intel gives us the ability for flicker free transistion between boot and gdm :)
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| 13:19 | <nubae> ogra: do they have a wireless mesh somewhere in Germany?
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| 13:19 | we have funkfeur here... free wireless at up to 30mb
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| 13:19 | <johnny> and then decent transistion between gdm and the desktop.. since the desktop backup is shared :)
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| 13:19 | i'd be happier if i had an ati card in here..
| |
| 13:19 | or intel.. but stupid intel and their lack of discrete cards
| |
| 13:19 | <nubae> I'd like my compiz to work with video... thats annoying as hell
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| 13:20 | <johnny> gimme a discrete intel card.. i'd be happy :)
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| 13:30 | <johnny> ntop didn't do it either..
| |
| 13:30 | err
| |
| 13:30 | iftop rather
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| 13:31 | <nubae> htop maybe
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| 13:34 | <johnny> nope
| |
| 13:34 | i use that already
| |
| 13:34 | it is awesome
| |
| 13:34 | but it doesn't do that
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| 13:53 | <nubae> wow according to a poll on the ubuntu forums, hardy upgraded properly only in 11% of cases
| |
| 13:53 | thats pretty darn bad
| |
| 13:54 | <jammcq> well, consider that most of the people in the forums are there because they have problems. all the people who had successes probably aren't there to say so
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| 13:54 | <johnny> i had a problem upgrading to intrepid
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| 13:54 | <nubae> oh, thats true... didnt think of that :-)
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| 13:54 | <johnny> did you know that if you had ever manually installed an application
| |
| 13:55 | <jammcq> but believe me, i'm not saying hardy was awesome or anything like that
| |
| 13:55 | <johnny> the upgrade process will die
| |
| 13:55 | and not even ask you to resolve the situation
| |
| 13:55 | <nubae> really, what package?
| |
| 13:55 | <johnny> i was left in a situation where my /etc/lsb_release file was out of date
| |
| 13:55 | so i couldn't continue the upgrade
| |
| 13:55 | orrather..
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| 13:55 | <nubae> I manually installed oxygen office and didnt have that problem
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| 13:55 | <johnny> it had been changed to intrepid, but the upgrade was only 50% complete
| |
| 13:55 | python-setuptools
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| 13:56 | and i had no idea how to recover
| |
| 13:56 | every upgrade in ubunt i've done.. has left systems in inconsistant states
| |
| 13:56 | <nubae> hmmm
| |
| 13:56 | <johnny> requiring at least on cli twiddling
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| 13:56 | <nubae> yeah true... although intrepid upgrade was the best so far
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| 13:56 | <johnny> luckily i'm a linux geek
| |
| 13:56 | and know how to fix em
| |
| 13:57 | <nubae> I think all of us are
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| 13:57 | <johnny> not all the ubunt users..
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| 13:57 | <nubae> my parents gave up on linux
| |
| 13:57 | <johnny> my gf is happy with it
| |
| 13:57 | she just couldn't do the upgrade herself
| |
| 13:57 | <nubae> I installed ubuntu for them, and my dad asked me to install windows back :-(
| |
| 13:57 | <johnny> i'm pretty happy with fedora10 on this laptop now
| |
| 13:57 | newer packages than ubuntu
| |
| 13:57 | ubuntu was never good for me. the packages were always too old :)
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| 13:58 | <nubae> hows mandriva, I never hear that mentioned much around here
| |
| 13:58 | <johnny> i see no reason to try it
| |
| 13:58 | they use kde as a base
| |
| 13:58 | so it is no go
| |
| 13:58 | fo me
| |
| 13:58 | <nubae> y not?
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| 13:58 | <johnny> if i have to install gnome manually for a distro.. then i'm not gonna use it
| |
| 13:58 | the tools are gonna be all wrong for me
| |
| 13:58 | if i have to manually set it up.. i might as well just use debian
| |
| 13:59 | <nubae> yeq
| |
| 13:59 | or gentoo
| |
| 13:59 | :-)
| |
| 13:59 | <johnny> i want the distro to do integration work
| |
| 13:59 | that is why i don't really use plain debian
| |
| 14:00 | so far.. fedora10 is that for me.. at least atm
| |
| 14:00 | the real reason i use fedora10 is ultimately because alot of the new stuff happens there first.. before being standardized
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| 14:01 | so i can figure out how it works.. to use on my gentoo box :)
| |
| 14:01 | and perhaps even help make it actually usable on other distros :)
| |
| 14:01 | <nubae> u could always use debian sid
| |
| 14:01 | <johnny> altho.. the gentoo people don't really like integrating certain things.. which makes me sad
| |
| 14:01 | too many crusty *nix geeks in gentoo and debian communities
| |
| 14:02 | i'm happy that both fedora and ubuntu use upstart
| |
| 14:02 | and have generally integrated networkmanager
| |
| 14:02 | that's the kind of things i want to see
| |
| 14:02 | <nubae> does fedora have a gui fw ?
| |
| 14:02 | <johnny> yes
| |
| 14:02 | not sure if it is good as ufw.. as i never used that
| |
| 14:03 | <nubae> whats it called?
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| 14:03 | <johnny> system-config-firewall
| |
| 14:03 | just like all their system-config-* stuff
| |
| 14:03 | <nubae> k
| |
| 14:03 | <johnny> iirc.. ubuntu is using system-config-printer
| |
| 14:04 | <nubae> yep
| |
| 14:04 | <johnny> decent tool right there
| |
| 14:04 | i use it on my gentoo box too
| |
| 14:06 | i also really dig the fedora default background
| |
| 14:06 | altho not so much the theme
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| 14:08 | <johnny> it's ok enough..
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| 14:09 | nubae, the world is getting better tho.. that is a fact.. dbus @xorg == awesome
| |
| 14:09 | soon we can drop this org.gnome.ScreenSaver !
| |
| 14:09 | and get org.freedesktop.ScreenSaver
| |
| 14:10 | nubae, you should perhaps install d-feet and see what your stuff is exposing now.. :)
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| 14:14 | selffik has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:18 | <nubae> d-feet what is that?
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| 14:35 | <johnny> graphical interface to dbus
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| 15:58 | <dirigeant> my clients give an error like "no free space left on device"
| |
| 15:58 | is this about size of my root system
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| 15:59 | alekibango has quit IRC | |
| 15:59 | <dirigeant> clients have 128mb ram
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| 16:00 | my root-path is /opt/ptsp
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| 16:00 | and
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| 16:00 | MeW-pardus ~ # du -hs /opt/ptsp/
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| 16:00 | 504M /opt/ptsp/
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| 16:00 | this is its size
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| 16:04 | <johnny> we have no idea how you're booting them.. or what method..
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| 16:04 | shouldn't the ptsp people know?
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| 16:06 | <laga> what *is* ptsp?
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| 16:06 | <Ryan52> what's ptsp?
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| 16:11 | <johnny> it's pardus version of ltsp
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| 16:11 | <Q-FUNK> something that is specific to some turkish distribution - somewhat similar to ltsp
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| 16:11 | <johnny> dirigeant, you should not ask us for help for ltsp
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| 16:11 | err for ptsp
| |
| 16:11 | we have no idea how it works.. or how it is implemented
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| 16:11 | <jammcq> dos pardus also rename Apache to Papache and gcc to pgcc ?
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| 16:12 | <Q-FUNK> :D
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| 16:12 | <laga> oh hai, let's fork stuff
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| 16:14 | <jammcq> sounds like they forked the code, but forgot to fork the support channel and community
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| 16:15 | <Q-FUNK> dirigeant: pardus seems to ohave been developped by TÜBITAK. I'm sure that they have mailing lists or forums that you can consult.
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| 16:18 | chrisinajar has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:22 | <dirigeant> oh men, i think this is not related with ptsp.
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| 16:22 | i learned, ptsp only use ltspfs
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| 16:23 | not a copy of ltsp
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| 16:23 | <rjune_> ltsp has an fs now?
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| 16:24 | <jammcq> now? it has since ltsp-4.2
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| 16:24 | like 4 years now
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| 16:24 | <rjune_> oh
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| 16:25 | <dirigeant> i wanna learn that is installed system loaded at root-path smaller than client RAM size?
| |
| 16:25 | this is a general question
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| 16:28 | selffik has quit IRC | |
| 16:28 | <chrisinajar> dirigeant: can you reword that? I don't understand.
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| 16:29 | <dirigeant> the system i installed on server machine for clients
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| 16:29 | <chrisinajar> dirigeant: the client operating system? (chroot)
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| 16:30 | <dirigeant> yes, which installed in root-path
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| 16:30 | <vagrantc> while folks here are generally helpful, the focus is definitely on LTSP, not general support questions ...
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| 16:30 | <dirigeant> hmm, when i search anything about thin clients,
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| 16:31 | google shows me ltsp
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| 16:31 | <vagrantc> maybe you should try it :)
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| 16:31 | <chrisinajar> dirigeant: sp what about the client os are you asking?
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| 16:32 | <dirigeant> hmm, sorry for my bad english. i installed a base system on /opt/ptsp/ folder and add "option root-path 10.0.0.1:/opt/ptsp" line to dhcp.conf
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| 16:32 | but client gives this error while opening system
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| 16:32 | <DawnLight> hey, what is this ldm_guestlogin thing?
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| 16:33 | oh, i remember. sorry.
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| 16:33 | <dirigeant> i wanna learn where is the problem.
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| 16:33 | <chrisinajar> dirigeant: what error are you getting, and can you post your entire dhpcd.conf file somewhere?
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| 16:34 | <dirigeant> client says "cp: no free space left on device"
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| 16:34 | and then it gives error while creating new files
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| 16:34 | in /dev folder etc.
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| 16:35 | <jammcq> without knowing how ptsp is designed, it's very hard for us to offer support
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| 16:35 | <chrisinajar> sounds like it might be loading root as a tmpfs :\...
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| 16:35 | <jammcq> ltsp uses a pseudo /dev filesystem and doesn't create anything in there
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| 16:35 | maybe #ptsp will be of some help
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| 16:36 | <dirigeant> umm, ok. ltsp works different completely?
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| 16:36 | <chrisinajar> what is ptsp, anyway...
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| 16:36 | <jammcq> we don't know how ptsp works, so we can't answer whether it works differently from ltsp
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| 16:36 | ptsp is pardus terminal server project
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| 16:37 | <dirigeant> chrisinajar: http://svn.pardus.org.tr/uludag/trunk/ptsp/README
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| 16:38 | <chrisinajar> dirigeant: you should just use ltsp, you'll get better help then :-P
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| 16:38 | <dirigeant> :)
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| 16:38 | ok, i'll try it
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| 16:39 | <dirigeant> i think, ptsp is easier so i tried it, but i dont know details too much.
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| 16:40 | <vagrantc> sounds a lot easier so far :P
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| 16:42 | <laga> ah, ptsp is not a fork then.
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| 16:42 | alright, bed time
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| 16:45 | <johnny> laga, they don't use our standard tools that's a fact
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| 16:45 | they use alot of pardus specific stuff
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| 16:45 | <dirigeant> vagrantc: problem is not ptsp
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| 16:45 | there is few documents about it
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| 16:45 | <dirigeant> this is main problem
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| 16:46 | <vagrantc> dirigeant: and it's certainly *not* LTSP, either, since you're not using it :)
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| 16:46 | <dirigeant> ministry of national defence use ptsp
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| 17:24 | <stgraber> dirigeant: seriously, if you want support for ptsp or whatever other LTSP fork, just go ask their developers. We don't have a clue what PTSP is as we do LTSP, LTSP is included in some distributions (list in the topic of that channel) and we offer support for these because the developers are actually in this channel.
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| 17:25 | Now, let's get back to finishing the packaging of LTSP for Jaunty (init scripts and doc)
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| 17:36 | <Ahmuck> dirigeant: i think that unless it's a big project, many linux projects has few documentation :(
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| 17:38 | <nubae> LTSP is another distribution that is used on the thin-client machines. It has its own packaging system with a perl based management tool.
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| 17:38 | thats rather wrong...
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| 17:39 | The management and configuration scripts are hacky.
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| 17:39 | what?
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| 17:39 | <johnny> where are you reading that?
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| 17:40 | <nubae> http://svn.pardus.org.tr/uludag/trunk/ptsp/README
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| 17:40 | <johnny> somebody needs to update it
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| 17:40 | <nubae> its like a fairy tale
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| 17:40 | <johnny> that is probably from ltsp4 days
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| 17:40 | altho the perl stuff is wrong
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| 17:40 | <nubae> yeah no shit
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| 17:40 | <jammcq> it's not so much "wrong". it's just old information
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| 17:41 | <nubae> ltsp uses hostly hackish bash scripts....
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| 17:41 | well I never knew ltsp4 so can't talk for it
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| 17:41 | but dont think it could be considered hackish
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| 17:42 | PTSP: Potential Trouble Source Person (Scientology)
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| 17:42 | funny
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| 17:44 | <johnny> i'd say it is hackish
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| 17:44 | the plugin stuff is almost unnecessary for me
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| 17:44 | as it stands
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| 17:45 | i only have 5 for gentoo
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| 17:45 | even more of them could disappear i guess
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| 17:45 | <nubae> plugin stuff?
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| 17:47 | * vagrantc keeps adding more every day | |
| 17:47 | <vagrantc> i aim to have at least 2000 plugins for debian by the end of the year.
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| 17:48 | <Ahmuck> nubae: any interest in walking me through your fat client setup? if you would, i'd keep a detailed log and then type it up as a readme or instruction manual
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| 17:49 | <nubae> !fatclient
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| 17:49 | <ltspbot> nubae: Error: "fatclient" is not a valid command.
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| 17:49 | <Ahmuck> *snicker*
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| 17:49 | <nubae> www.nubae.com
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| 17:49 | its all documented there
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| 17:49 | and here: help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
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| 17:50 | if u get any problems, ask me... but it should be working ok, lots of people seem to be using it now
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| 17:51 | how does one teach the bot again?
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| 17:51 | <Ahmuck> fat client requires NFS ?
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| 17:51 | is that help at ubuntu up to date?
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| 17:51 | <nubae> if u want to share home yes
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| 17:51 | <Ahmuck> anymore wading through ubuntu help is like wading through google goo
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| 17:51 | <nubae> yes, but really u should use the plugin
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| 17:52 | <Ahmuck> k. well the lab is setup, now off to find keyboards and mice
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| 18:48 | <petre> jammcq, ping
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| 19:16 | <jammcq> petre: pong
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| 19:21 | <petre> jammcq, is there a more detailed explanation of getting on #ltsp on the ltsp.org website?
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| 19:22 | There used to be a good page about it, but there doesn't seem to be anything like that in the wiki
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| 19:23 | I just want to put a link to an explanation about #ltsp into the quick start guide I'm updating for k12linux
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| 19:36 | never mind, I found the page I was thinking of on the old ltsp.sourceforge.net archive
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| 19:36 | <jammcq> umm
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| 19:37 | that should be moved to the wiki, so people can find it easily
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| 19:53 | <petre> jammcq, I thought someone had, but couldn't find anything other than a short 'use #ltsp' sentence
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| 19:54 | I'll make a mental note to recreate it on the wiki, although it will probably be a few days before I can get to it.
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| 21:51 | <dberkholz> johnny: there's a patch around for genkernel to configure network modules??
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| 23:46 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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