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04:32 | <alkisg> It's the first time a build failure meant something really good... bb, cdpinger!
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04:32 | https://launchpadlibrarian.net/160565915/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.ltspfs_0.9%2Bbzr162%2B201312240125-0ubuntu1%2B3~ubuntu10.04.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
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04:36 | <alkisg> vagrantc: $ grep -r cdpinger .
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04:36 | ./man/Makefile.am:dist_man_MANS = lbmount.1 ltspfs.1 ltspfsd.1 ltspfsmounter.1 cdpinger.1 ltspfs_mount.1 ltspfs_umount.1
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04:36 | ./man/cdpinger.1:.TH "cdpinger" "1" "20080825"
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04:36 | ...
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05:55 | <vagrantc> huh. wonder why it built for me.
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15:35 | <techsys> how do i dfine ltsp on ubunto server?
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15:50 | <khildin> techsys explain 'define'?
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15:51 | <khildin> if you want an easy way: get the Edubuntu desktop DVD and install from that....
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15:51 | LTSP will be a breeze to install then...
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15:52 | hmz... tech already split....
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16:48 | <andygraybeal__> khildin, you mkae it home ok?
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16:49 | <khildin> hi andygraybeal__ yeah... I came home sunday morning...
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16:49 | <andygraybeal__> :)
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16:49 | <khildin> and ofc..... too little time there.... I could have used a few weeks more
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16:50 | but also glad I am back with my family
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16:51 | <andygraybeal__> it is crazy that there is no way to do remote support!!
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16:51 | i can't imagine being disconnected
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16:51 | <khildin> that's next step
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16:54 | <andygraybeal__> they are going to get connected somehow?
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16:55 | <khildin> I hope so....
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16:55 | implement a wifi stream to the mainland
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16:55 | <andygraybeal__> that is cool
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16:55 | i'm effing around with phpbb forum software https://scytheforums.com
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16:59 | <khildin> what is scythforums for?
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17:08 | <andygraybeal__> for mowing and reaping
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17:08 | and learning
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17:08 | and tidying up around the house
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17:12 | <khildin> ah ok....
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17:12 | hope it gets growded a bit then... :)
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19:18 | <alkisg> vagrantc: time for a new branch? or should we first implement the new pxelinux.cfg/default configuration we were talking about?
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19:19 | Btw, the recipe failed because it's using an obsolete packaging branch that stgraber uploaded a few years ago
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19:19 | vagrantc, stgraber: should we change the ltsp daily builds to use vagrantc's packaging instead?
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19:20 | For ldm and ltspfs it's the same... for ltsp, /me prefers the debian packaging for testing even on ubuntu...
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19:26 | Old recipe contents:
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19:26 | # bzr-builder format 0.3 deb-version {debupstream}+bzr{revno}+{time}-0ubuntu1+{revno:packaging}
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19:26 | lp:ltsp/ltspfs-trunk
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19:26 | nest-part packaging lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltspfs-trunk.daily-packaging debian debian
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19:26 | New recipe contents:
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19:26 | # bzr-builder format 0.3 deb-version {debversion}+r{revno}+p{revno:pkg}
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19:26 | lp:ltsp/ltspfs-trunk
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19:26 | nest pkg lp:~vagrantc/ltsp/ltspfs-debian-packaging debian
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19:29 | Same for ldm:
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19:29 | # bzr-builder format 0.3 deb-version 2:{debupstream}+bzr{revno}+{time}-0ubuntu1+{revno:packaging}
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19:29 | lp:ltsp/ldm-trunk
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19:29 | nest-part packaging lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk.daily-packaging debian debian
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19:30 | New:
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19:30 | # bzr-builder format 0.3 deb-version {debversion}+r{revno}+p{revno:pkg}
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19:30 | lp:ltsp/ldm-trunk
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19:30 | nest pkg lp:~vagrantc/ltsp/ldm-debian-packaging debian
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19:32 | ...and finally, ltsp:
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19:32 | bzr-builder format 0.3 deb-version {debupstream}+bzr{revno}+{time}-0ubuntu1+{revno:packaging}
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19:32 | lp:ltsp
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19:32 | nest-part packaging lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk.daily-packaging debian debian
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19:32 | New:
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19:32 | # bzr-builder format 0.3 deb-version {debversion}+r{revno}+p{revno:pkg}
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19:32 | lp:ltsp
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19:32 | nest pkg lp:~vagrantc/ltsp/ltsp-debian-packaging debian
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19:33 | All done :)
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19:34 | Results...
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19:35 | Building ltspfs on Lucid failed because debhelper 9 isn't available, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/160620277/buildlog.txt.gz
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19:35 | ...removing Lucid from the build targets...
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19:36 | Saucy errored out too, Makefile.am: error: required file './ChangeLog' not found: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/160620477/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-amd64.ltspfs_1.2-1%2Br164%2Bp136~ubuntu13.10.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
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19:41 | LDM goes better, except for Trusty: dpkg-source: error: can't build with source format '3.0 (native)': native package version may not have a revision
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19:42 | ...and LTSP failed too :(
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19:42 | <vagrantc> "works for me."
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19:43 | the missing ChangeLog file is because i generate the changelog when i build the .orig.tar.gz
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19:44 | so if building from bzr you basically need to do a: bzr log --short > ChangeLog
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19:45 | <alkisg> vagrantc: would you accept packaging changes that would make it work with launchpad recipes?
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19:46 | <vagrantc> alkisg: as long as they didn't violate debian policy :)
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19:46 | <alkisg> Sure
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19:46 | <vagrantc> or do things that i balk at :)
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19:47 | * alkisg is more worried about the "native packages cannot have a revision" message | |
19:48 | <alkisg> I.e. even if we find some way to say "we're building on launchpad so dynamically change the format to non-native", I'm worried you wouldn't accept that :)
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19:48 | <vagrantc> make the revisioning not use a - in the version?
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19:49 | <alkisg> ~ is ok?
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19:49 | <vagrantc> should be
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19:49 | or +
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19:49 | depending on how you want the versions to sort
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19:50 | <alkisg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/+recipe/ldm-trunk-daily
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19:50 | It succeeded in most versions of ubuntu but failed on trusty
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19:50 | <vagrantc> weird
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19:50 | <alkisg> For example this was fine in Saucy: ldm_2.2.12-1+r1540+p957~ubuntu13.10.1_amd64.deb
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19:51 | <vagrantc> i'm not really familiar with launchpad recipes
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19:51 | <alkisg> I think the problem is the newer version of dpkg-source...
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19:51 | * alkisg googles a bit | |
19:52 | <vagrantc> it shouldn't be a hard error... that should just be a warning
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19:52 | the - is valid in native package versions, it's just unconventional... unless policy changed...
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19:55 | <vagrantc> alkisg: already found an issue with the cdpingerless ltspfsd...
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19:56 | <alkisg> What?
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19:56 | <vagrantc> alkisg: cd without media still shows up as a mount until you try to use it
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19:56 | think that could be fixed in the ltspfs_entry script somehow...
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19:59 | <vagrantc> alkisg: the cdpinger autobuilds only failed because of broken packaging, not the few things i missed in the upstream portions, right?
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19:59 | <alkisg> vagrantc: they failed because of missing ./Changelog
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20:01 | <vagrantc> could workaround that with "touch ChangeLog"
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20:01 | might even be able to get debhelper to only install a changelog if it's present
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20:04 | or maybe it's autotools that doesn't like the empty changelog
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20:04 | er, missing
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20:04 | * alkisg starts with the "native packages can't have a revision" issue first, which affects all of our 3 recipes in Trusty... | |
20:05 | <alkisg> Ouch, launchpad sent 25 mails about failed builds...
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20:05 | <vagrantc> alkisg: as far as forking, i'd like to at least get the "xprop -spy" changes into ltsp 5.4.x before forking
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20:05 | alkisg: it sure did :P
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20:11 | <alkisg> vagrantc: what's the epoch 2: in the ldm packaging for?
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20:15 | This was successfully built, hope the version seems sane: ldm - 2:2.2.12+r1540+p957~ubuntu14.04.1
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20:21 | Hmm I could duplicate these recipes with me as the owner so that the other distro devs don't get annoyed by emails...
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20:48 | https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/BzrBuilder => Note: Launchpad does not support the run command.
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20:48 | So it needs to be done from debian/rules...
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20:50 | (touching the Changelog)
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20:51 | Or, we could just commit an empty Changelog file
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20:59 | <vagrantc> we used to have empty changelog files in some of our pprojects...
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20:59 | are there extra environment variables available to debian/rules to detect when to run the changelog stuff?
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21:00 | alkisg: the epoch was because ldm used to be part of ltsp 5.x, and when we split it into a separate project, it was ldm 2.x, so needed the epoch.
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21:00 | alkisg: should've just versioned ldm 2.x with 5.x or something, but now we're stuck with it
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21:05 | <alkisg> vagrantc: it could check if Changelog is missing, and only touch it then?
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21:24 | <vagrantc> alkisg: guess so
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21:25 | alkisg: the empty changelog is a bit simpler...
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21:25 | <alkisg> Sure
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21:25 | <vagrantc> i think my tarball generating script handles that
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21:26 | or "This is a dummy changelog that should be generated by bzr log --short > Changelog"
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21:26 | or even make it executable :)
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21:27 | <alkisg> We already have empty NEWS etc files, so an empty Changelog sounds more fitting...
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21:27 | <vagrantc> do we need those other empty files?
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21:27 | * vagrantc would like to get rid of whatever cruft can be gotten rid of | |
21:27 | <alkisg> Not sure... maybe they're there to silence some warnings of the build tools
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21:27 | <vagrantc> and at least leaving a comment in them suggesting what should happen to them...
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21:28 | otherwise you might get someone committing changes to it
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21:28 | * vagrantc wants to purge the ALTLinux po files | |
21:28 | <vagrantc> if not all of the ALTLinux cruft
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21:29 | <alkisg> +1 :)
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21:29 | Let's do it on ltsp6 though, it'll make more sense there to remove stuff that hasn't been updated in ages
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21:30 | i.e. after the trunk cloning
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21:34 | <vagrantc> so, we wanted to rewrite the pxelinux/*update-kernels stuff for one last time before forking ltsp6?
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21:36 | <alkisg> vagrantc: yes, but I'm not sure if we want to do it before or after...
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21:39 | ...probably "before" :)
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21:40 | http://irclogs.ltsp.org/?d=2013-11-26
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21:47 | <alkisg> 07:57<vagrantc> alkisg: so, what's now the update-kernels hook would merely become a symlink generator ... in /boot/ of the client chroot ? and ltsp-update-kernels would actually copy files from both the <chroot>/boot/ and <chroot>/etc/ltsp/pxelinux* ?
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21:48 | I think that's the main idea...
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21:49 | And, " Now, the chroot conffile doesn't have to be a pxelinux.cfg file. It can just list the default kernel parameters"
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21:53 | <vagrantc> we hashed that out so many times...
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21:53 | would be good to finally implement it :)
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21:54 | also, i liked the idea of having ltsp-update-kernels put /opt/ltsp/i386/boot and /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img:/boot in different tftp dirs
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21:54 | that way you can have either.
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21:56 | alkisg: ltsp-update-kernels could just do as it does now, but also create <tftpdir>/ltsp/pxelinux.cfg/* in addition to <tftpdir>/ltsp/<arch>/pxelinux.cfg/*
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21:56 | and leave the client-side code alone...
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21:56 | or at least for an initial pass at an implementation
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21:57 | alkisg: this could also be implemented in a separate branch with multiple commits, and only merge it to trunk once it works...
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21:57 | ah, the symlink generator ... for vmlinuz-pae, vmlinuz-amd64, vmlinuz-x86, etc.
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21:57 | <alkisg> I think we first need to sum up what we want to do... sync.in/ltsp, or wiki? :)
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21:59 | <vagrantc> alkisg: what about a gobby instance?
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21:59 | <alkisg> np, let me install it..
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21:59 | <vagrantc> gobby-0.5, at least on wheezy
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22:00 | <alkisg> OK I've opened it, then what? connect to server?
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22:00 | * vagrantc wonders about a gobby server | |
22:01 | <vagrantc> alkisg: connect to server -> gobby.debian.org ?
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22:34 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I don't think `ltsp-config pxe` does anything significant, I think we should put all the code in ltsp-update-kernels
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22:35 | <vagrantc> alkisg: fair enough.
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22:36 | <alkisg> ltsp-config could update the server configuration files for NBD/NFS if we want...
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22:36 | <vagrantc> want.
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22:37 | with NFS, we just need /opt/ltsp/, since all the chroots share a single config.
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22:37 | but ltsp-config nfs would be great.
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22:37 | <vagrantc> at least on debian, it just needs to add one line to /etc/exports.d/ltsp.export(s?)
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22:38 | yup, /etc/exports.d/ltsp.exports
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22:38 | <alkisg> It could also prompt to install the necessary packages
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22:38 | <vagrantc> sure.
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22:38 | we could do the thing with functions with distro-specific overrides for all of it
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22:39 | or stub functions
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22:39 | <alkisg> Nice
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22:39 | <vagrantc> since /etc/exports.d/ maybe be "debian"-specific
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22:40 | and the NBD configs are tied to specific nbd versions ...
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22:42 | <alkisg> I think we should let all the ifcpu64 handling up to the user. We'd provide him with the symlinks, and even if they don't have standard names he could create a static default file that uses them
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22:42 | <vagrantc> why leave ifcpu64 handling out?
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22:43 | <alkisg> He could even use feature detection if he wanted, without restricting him to 32, 64, and pae
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22:43 | For simplicity
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22:43 | <vagrantc> it's a lot more complicated for the user
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22:43 | <alkisg> In the default case, he'd just copy an example file
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22:43 | <vagrantc> then we may as well just have one symlink ... only reason i see to hvae the symlinks is to support thta
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22:44 | <alkisg> symlinks == static pxelinux.cfg/default file
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22:44 | Without symlinks the user would need to edit it on each kernel upgrade
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22:44 | <vagrantc> but having to specify 64 vs. pae vs. 32 ?
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22:45 | the template just defaults to 32 only? or what?
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22:45 | <alkisg> We'd have a wiki page. It would instruct him to install the kernels in the chroot and to edit pxelinux.cfg/default according to an example.
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22:45 | <vagrantc> that seems more complicated to me.
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22:46 | when it's so easy to implement in code
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22:46 | <alkisg> The always-generated pxelinux.cfg/ltsp file would contain a menu with all the symlinks (i.e. only the latest kernels) and a submenu with all the kernel versions
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22:47 | <vagrantc> and the first entry is the "most compatible" symlink?
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22:48 | <alkisg> Yeah in some order defined by update-kernels.conf
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22:48 | <vagrantc> well, that's a per-chroot configuration file...
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22:49 | but we're talking about a global pxe configuration
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22:50 | if the always-generated pxelinux.cfg/ltsp included ifcpu64 always, what's the additional complexity?
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22:50 | * alkisg checks what we can do with the existing update-kernels.conf... so that we at least keep compatibility with 12.04/wheezy... | |
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22:50 | <vagrantc> 12.04 and wheezy are totally different, aren't they?
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22:50 | ifcpu64 support is definitely in the code already
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22:51 | but i didn't enable it by default
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22:51 | <alkisg> Ah, no I'm using the greek schools ppa... maybe 12.10 was the first one with the new update-kernels.conf
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22:52 | <vagrantc> although really, the biggest advantage of ifcpu64 support, would be not just selecting kernel, but chroot/img
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22:52 | which we don't yet have.
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22:52 | * alkisg would leave that up to the user too | |
22:53 | <vagrantc> i guess.
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22:53 | i guess it's not hard to write up ifcpu64 code.
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22:54 | <alkisg> I'm a little worried about having consistent symlink names too
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22:54 | E.g. I may have 3 32-bit kernels...
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22:54 | real time, vm, generic...
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22:55 | Without touching much the current client code, we can have the symlinks like vmlinuz-generic, vmlinuz-generic-pae etc
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22:55 | The user then can just put those in ifcpu64...
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22:57 | Anyways. For my needs, the most significant part are the symlinks which then allow for static pxelinux.cfg/* files, other than that I don't mind so we can do it however you want :)
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22:59 | <vagrantc> it seems like having 3 different types of 32-bit kernels is worth leaving to manual configuration
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22:59 | <alkisg> How are you using ifcpu64 now?
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22:59 | Are you branching to different chroots?
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23:00 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so, with the current code, we've got the ability to specify multiple 32-bit capable kernels in LIST_KERNELS_DEFAULT
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23:00 | er, LIST_KERNELS_32
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23:00 | alkisg: just a single chroot with amd64, 686-pae or 486 kernels
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23:00 | alkisg: all i386 chroot.
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23:01 | <alkisg> Yup. In the new code, I wouldn't care at all about the LIST_KERNELS_* variants, one single LIST_KERNELS would be enough for me, I'd leave all the rest up to the user, but for the sake of compatibility (and to minimize code changes) I'd leave the LIST_KERNELS_* variants as they are now...
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23:01 | <vagrantc> but i've seen sites that could use a different chroot for different arch ... i.e. mixed 64-bit fat clients and 32-bit thin clients
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23:01 | <alkisg> We couldn't support that ^ with our current code... it doesn't handle multiple chroots with ifcpu64...
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23:01 | <vagrantc> i think the LIST_KERNELS_DEFAULT was a way for the user to override the semi-hard-coded _64, _PAE and _32 options
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23:02 | alkisg: yes, i know the current code doesn't handle it
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23:02 | but ok, so re-implementing what we have now...
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23:03 | though the way we're reimplimenting it suggests to me these things that weren't really possible with the old way.
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23:03 | if we're moving everything server-side, automatic chroot detection becomes possible in ways it wasn't before
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23:04 | but anyways, there will need to be a menu entry for each chroot/img and kernel combination
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23:04 | <alkisg> Btw, some of the update-kernels.conf variables should be on the server side, like PXELINUX_DEFAULT=menu, TIMEOUT...
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23:04 | <vagrantc> yup
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23:05 | <alkisg> We're not moving everything... we're basically splitting it in both server and client
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23:06 | <vagrantc> right
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23:06 | <alkisg> Let's make some decisions... so first, do we want to try standarized symlink names, or we just go with the distro kernel name and just remove the version?
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23:06 | vmlinuz-generic, vmlinuz-486...
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23:07 | ...or vmlinuz-32 ?
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23:07 | vmlinuz-generic should be easy to support with the current code
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23:08 | <vagrantc> the only reason i see to support -64, -pae, -32 is for cross-distro support.
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23:08 | otherwise, i'd say distro-specific naming conventions ...
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23:08 | i.e. -generic doesn't exist on debian for most architectures
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23:09 | or any current architectures, from the looks of it
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23:10 | alkisg: i guess the sorting rules to figure out the most-compatible variant are needed
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23:11 | <alkisg> In 12.10+, there's no pae kernel, and the names of -32 and -64 are the same
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23:11 | <vagrantc> heh.
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23:11 | <alkisg> So I'm not even sure what to put in LIST_KERNELS_*
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23:12 | <vagrantc> i guess you'd just put LIST_KERNELS_32='generic' LIST_KERNELS_PAE='generic' LIST_KERNELS_64='generic' ?
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23:13 | <alkisg> (no pae ==> I mean that there's no -32 kernel, it's -pae by default)
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23:13 | <vagrantc> orr leave LIST_KERNELS_32=''
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23:14 | or leave them as is, for backportability, it just won't find anything?
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23:14 | and generic is not quite right...
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23:15 | <alkisg> Leave them as they are, or use LIST_KERNELS_32="lowlatency virtual generic", LIST_KERNELS_PAE="", LIST_KERNELS_64="lowlatency virtual generic"
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23:15 | <vagrantc> i guess having all architectures use "generic" makes it simple for kernel selection... but sure makes it hard to have media that supports multiple variants.
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23:15 | <alkisg> ...but whatever I don't, I won't be able to make ifcpu64 work because it'll only work on different chroots
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23:15 | s/don't/do/
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23:16 | <vagrantc> so ifcpu64 is only useful on (recent) ubuntu if it supports multiple chroots
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23:16 | alkisg: which you're not really likely to use?
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23:16 | <alkisg> Right, and I would leave that up to the user then, completely ignoring ifcpu64 in the ltsp code...
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23:17 | But I don't mind, go ahead and implement that part however you like, it doesn't matter to ubuntu anyways
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23:17 | <vagrantc> ok, let's do the initial implementation without ifcpu64 support.
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23:17 | should be easy enough to add later.
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23:18 | by those who want it :_)
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23:18 | <alkisg> By ignoring ifcpu64, we also don't need to list all the kernel variants
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23:19 | E.g. now I see that 14.04 has -server, -goldfish and some other new variants
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23:19 | <vagrantc> just use symlinks?
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23:19 | what do you mean by "list all the kernel variants" ?
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23:20 | i still think we should add entries for all available kernels.
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23:20 | the lists would just, at least in theory, affect sort order
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23:20 | <alkisg> I think that if I install only the -server kernel, our code will completely ignore it
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23:21 | <vagrantc> i'm pretty sure it currently adds an entry for it, defaulting to "vmlinuz"
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23:21 | <alkisg> Let me check...
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23:25 | <vagrantc> we should drop the gpxelinux.0 code ... some versions are rather outdated.
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23:26 | <alkisg> Heh... by default we don't use any of the lists, ok :)
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23:26 | <vagrantc> i think it uses them, but handles if nothing comes up
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23:27 | version=$(LIST_KERNELS="$LIST_KERNELS_DEFAULT $LIST_KERNELS_32 *" kernel_versions | head -n 1)
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23:29 | <alkisg> True. OK, what I want is to put an "ln" inside for arch in ${LIST_KERNELS:-*}; do
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23:29 | ...and I don't mind whatever else you do with ifcpu64 etc :)
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23:32 | <mystic> hi people
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23:33 | <vagrantc> alkisg: what do you mean by 'put an "ln" inside' ?
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23:34 | <mystic> i'm new to this and i got a test ltsp server running on my lan it works great. But now i'm wondering if i can connect to my ltsp sever with an NX client like Nomachine
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23:34 | <vagrantc> alkisg: create a symlink for the newest version of any aailable kernel?
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23:34 | mystic: there's nothing in LTSP that forbids it
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23:35 | mystic: you'd just configure it like any other NX server...
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23:36 | <mystic> vagrantc: this is not working "out of the box"?
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23:37 | <vagrantc> mystic: NX has nothing to do with LTSP
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23:38 | <vagrantc> mystic: at least, not specifically
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23:38 | <mystic> i understand, but like i said i'm new to this :) so i'm just trying some stuff
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23:39 | <alkisg> (01:34:29 πμ) vagrantc: alkisg: create a symlink for the newest version of any aailable kernel? => yup
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23:39 | <vagrantc> mystic: sure. LTSP is mainly about network booting thin clients
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23:40 | it's an OS delivery mechanism, not necessarily tied to any specific protocol.
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23:40 | by default, it supports X over ssh.
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23:40 | <mystic> the network booting is just working fine. now i'm wondering is i can connect trough the web, but if i understand correctly i have to install some more services to make this work correctly?
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23:41 | <vagrantc> yup
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23:41 | probably also firewalling/port-forwarding rules
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23:41 | <alkisg> !x2g0
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23:41 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'x2g0', but I do know about these similar topics: 'x2go'
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23:41 | <alkisg> !x2go
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23:41 | <ltsp> x2go: x2go is an NX-based suite of applications that allow logging in to a remote X server from any OS. It's much more efficient than VNC over slow network. More info: http://www.x2go.org/
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23:42 | <mystic> well i'm trying on my local network for now, so firewalls etc. is not a problem for now
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23:42 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so, after all this, you just want a symlink?
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23:42 | <alkisg> vagrantc: client side, yup
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23:42 | <vagrantc> alkisg: and then more code server-side.
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23:42 | <alkisg> Right
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23:42 | <vagrantc> alkisg: what do you want the symlink to be named?
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23:43 | <alkisg> I'd go with the distro kernel name without the version
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23:43 | <vagrantc> alkisg: doesn't it already produce a "vmlinuz" symlink?
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23:43 | <alkisg> I want a symlink for *each* kernel variant
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23:43 | <vagrantc> got it.
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23:43 | <alkisg> So that I can also install e.g. debian's -486
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23:44 | <vagrantc> rather than hard-coding the version string in the generated config
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23:44 | <alkisg> Yes, so that I can have static pxelinux.cfg files
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23:44 | <vagrantc> you hard-code the symlink variannt.
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23:44 | <alkisg> Yup
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23:44 | <vagrantc> yeah, that's exactly what i do for my manually configured setup. :)
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23:46 | * alkisg needs to wave goodnight for now... had fun, I'll get online in 6 hours or so again :) | |
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