IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 25 October 2019 (all times are UTC)
| 05:20 | ltsp has joined IRC (ltsp!bot@ltsp.org) | |
| 05:20 | <alkisg> !bot are you alive now? :)
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| 05:20 | <ltsp> Error: "bot" is not a valid command.
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| 05:34 | <alkisg> Let's see if restoring the ltsp5 wiki to a two-years-old backup will work... before we dis-bundle it :P
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| 05:35 | !learn html-to-markdown as HTML to markdown converter: https://euangoddard.github.io/clipboard2markdown/
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| 05:35 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 06:05 | <os_a> Hi! Does LTSP work with UEFI terminals?
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| 06:05 | <alkisg> os_a: the new ltsp, yes
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| 06:05 | The old one, no
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| 06:05 | !install
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| 06:05 | <ltsp> install: To install LTSP19+: https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/wiki/installation. To install LTSP5: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
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| 06:05 | <alkisg> !forget install
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| 06:05 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 06:06 | <alkisg> !learn install as To install LTSP19+: https://ltsp.github.io/docs/installation. To install LTSP5: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
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| 06:06 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 06:07 | <os_a> ok, merci!
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| 06:45 | <georgeneophytou> morning, alkisg, I have provisioned a new LTSP but when generating the image, initrd etc, I get the following error: Could not locate vmlinuz and initrd.img in /srv/ltsp/images/x86_64.img
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| 07:07 | <alkisg> Hi georgeneophytou
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| 07:08 | Does it have a separate boot partition?
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| 07:08 | If so, check this out: https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/issues/43
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| 07:09 | https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/issues/43#issuecomment-541388632
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| 07:27 | <georgeneophytou> yes it does
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| 07:27 | I will check it thanks
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| 07:37 | <alkisg> !learn stargazers as If you're using LTSP, star it on github: https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/stargazers
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| 07:37 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 07:38 | <georgeneophytou> I am very confused what this command is doing:
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| 07:38 | mount --bind / /mnt
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| 07:38 | cp -a /boot/. /mnt/boot/
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| 07:38 | it's copying from and to the same place of the filesystem?
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| 07:39 | can you explain this a bit alkisg?
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| 07:40 | "copy the contents of the /boot partition to the /boot folder of the / partition, before calling ltsp image /"
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| 07:40 | <alkisg> georgeneophytou: if you have a file /boot/something, and then you mount something over /boot, you can't see the file /boot/something under the mount
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| 07:40 | <georgeneophytou> there are already all the files in /boot
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| 07:40 | <alkisg> So we want to copy the boot files from the boot partition to the root partition
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| 07:40 | Your boot partition shows in /boot
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| 07:40 | Your root partition in /
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| 07:40 | But you can't copy from /boot to /boot
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| 07:41 | So by bind-mounting, you get another VIEW of /, in /mnt
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| 07:41 | So then the /mnt/boot folder is the contents of the boot folder of the REAL root, not of the boot partition
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| 07:41 | <georgeneophytou> ohhhhhhhhh
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| 07:41 | alright, wow, now I get it, thanks! :D
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| 07:41 | <alkisg> :)
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| 07:42 | I hope I'll have some time to fix that in a few days
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| 07:42 | <georgeneophytou> that really hurt my brain haha
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| 07:42 | <alkisg> So that you won't need the workaround
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| 07:42 | Haha
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| 07:42 | <georgeneophytou> thanks that would be great :)
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| 07:42 | <alkisg> Are you using chrootless?
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| 07:42 | <georgeneophytou> yes
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| 07:42 | <alkisg> OK
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| 07:43 | <georgeneophytou> I have followed your advice and installed the OS to RAID5
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| 07:43 | I have a 4th drive just for the boot partition
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| 07:43 | 3x3tb disks took almost 4 hours to recover :D
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| 07:44 | but, I had to install ubuntu server first and then ubuntu desktop after, the ubuntu desktop installer could not see a previously created raid5 array
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| 07:45 | <alkisg> You just needed to apt install dmraid from the live cd
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| 07:45 | But ok this will also do
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| 07:48 | <georgeneophytou> I wish I knew this yesterday... lol
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| 07:48 | you are a real guru alkisg :)
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| 07:50 | <alkisg> Eh everyone is a guru in a small little area where he focuses his knowledge...
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| 07:50 | <georgeneophytou> true true :)
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| 07:50 | are you also on the epoptes team?
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| 07:52 | <alkisg> Yup, the only developer left there :/
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| 07:52 | *except for vagrant which takes care of uploading things to debian
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| 07:54 | <georgeneophytou> oh wow, okay, because I have been very keen to get involved with epoptes
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| 07:57 | <alkisg> You'd be very welcomed
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| 07:59 | <georgeneophytou> alright, I was start looking into this
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| 08:05 | where can you suggest I write feature requests for epoptes?
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| 08:06 | <alkisg> georgeneophytou: I hope you mean "implement" and not "ask" features, right? :D
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| 08:06 | https://epoptes.github.io/documentation/gsoc/
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| 08:07 | If you just want to ask features, you'd do it in the epoptes issue tracker
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| 08:07 | https://github.com/epoptes/epoptes/issues
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| 08:07 | You may also check the issues, find something that interests you, and provide a solution
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| 08:07 | (with or without code)
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| 08:08 | <georgeneophytou> okay
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| 09:25 | <meo> so I brought my first ltsp19 setup up and its working
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| 09:25 | v. nice
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| 09:26 | <alkisg> Yey! ;)
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| 09:27 | Btw if anyone knows Jekyll and wants to help with putting irclogs to github: https://github.com/ltsp/irclogs/tree/master
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| 12:05 | <georgeneophytou> alkisg, is it possible at all for clients to change their password from the client machine?
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| 12:20 | <alkisg> georgeneophytou: currently, no,
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| 12:20 | ltsp5 had a "remote apps" feature, that one could use to run a password changing app on the server, and have it displayed locally,
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| 12:20 | that can't possibly work with wayland, as ssh -X doesn't work on wayland,
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| 12:21 | so while we can reimplement remoteapps, or even just write a small script that uses passwordless ssh to substitute remoteapps, it'll only work on xorg,
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| 12:24 | ...to sum up: (1) in the long future, ssh -X or something else will work with both wayland and xorg; we'll have to wait for that one;
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| 12:24 | (2) now, one can create a small script to run remote apps on ltsp19,
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| 12:24 | and finally (3) one could write a GUI to change the app, which again would use ssh to change the pass on the server
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| 12:24 | *change the pass
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| 12:24 | But, no, no out of the box solution; unless you use ldap, webmin etc etc
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| 12:32 | <georgeneophytou> alright, thanks for the answer!
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| 12:34 | <alkisg> Hrm, better yet: since we already have pam hooks, we could use those to change the pass on the server, with the existing gui tools, without the user realizing what's happenning under the hood
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| 12:34 | That deserves a bug report
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| 14:13 | <georgeneophytou> I have another suggestion alkisg, currently, it is possible for the same user to login to multiple clients at the same time, perhaps add a features to terminate all but the newest session
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> georgeneophytou: what would "terminate" mean over nfs?
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| 14:16 | There are no processes on the server
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| 14:17 | <georgeneophytou> if a user logs into client A, and then also on client B, we need to terminate the session on client A
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| 14:17 | <alkisg> georgeneophytou: I mean, how would the server know?
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| 14:18 | There's no persistent ssh process like in ltsp5
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| 14:18 | The server is only used for authentication, or sshfs
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| 14:18 | So if one uses nfs, the server doesn't know at all if a client is logged in in A
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| 14:18 | And it's also possible that the user would want that; many apps support it
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| 14:20 | <georgeneophytou> sure they could want it, however, in my use case, business environment, a user should only be logged into 1 client at a time. its not really a major issue, I just think that in the case where the user locks their session and a different user logs in on the same client, then we have more and more users logged in on the same client. happens a lot here at the office where employees move around the office
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| 14:21 | <alkisg> georgeneophytou: and what would be the correct way out of it? To kill the user processes without allowing the user to save them?
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| 14:21 | <georgeneophytou> well :) it would be their fault for not saving, computers are rebooted once per day anyways
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| 14:22 | <alkisg> Then wouldn't it be better to just not allow multiple logins?
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| 14:22 | And ask the next user, "do you want to terminate the old user processes?"
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| 14:22 | <georgeneophytou> yes, but how does one go about asking that question?
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| 14:23 | as we said, the server is not aware, so somehow have to make the clients aware
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| 14:23 | <alkisg> Much easier than terminating processes from *another* pc, that's for sure :)
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| 14:23 | I'm thinking of implementing an "ltsp session" script; one that would run right after log in
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| 14:24 | So at that point, you could run a little script, that would show that dialog, and if the user presses yes, it'd terminate the old user processes
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| 14:24 | <georgeneophytou> i thought of using session files, ie, when a user logs into the client, a session file is created with a timestamp, if said user logs into another client, this new session file is detected from the old client and issues a termination command on the old client
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| 14:24 | well there you go, we thought the same :)
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| 14:24 | more or less..
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| 14:25 | ideally, the new client session should receive a message "you are already logged into $hostname, do you want to terminate that session?" if yes, terminate old session, if no, terminate new session
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| 14:26 | <alkisg> I'm talking about a different thing
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| 14:26 | user1 logs in to client1
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| 14:26 | user2 tries to login to client1
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| 14:26 | He's asked: terminate processes from user1?
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| 14:27 | While, if user1 logs in to client2, there wouldn't be any notifications
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| 14:27 | As there's no easy way to know that user1 is logged in to client1
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| 14:27 | Suppose client1 hard crashes; even lock files would be in use for a looong time
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| 14:28 | So user1 would need to wait for that long time, to be able to login to the next client
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| 14:28 | <georgeneophytou> oh no no, I dont think user2 should be able to terminate user1's session, i was thinking more like this:
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| 14:28 | <alkisg> I'm talking about what can be done
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| 14:28 | You're talking about what you'd like :)
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| 14:28 | Which isn't easy, technically
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| 14:28 | <georgeneophytou> user1 logs into client1, session file is created on user1's /home
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| 14:29 | user1 then logs into client2 and is asked the question because the session file is detected
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| 14:29 | <alkisg> And he says "yes, log me out". What happens then?
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| 14:29 | How can the server affect processes running in client1?
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| 14:29 | It doesn't have reverse ssh
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| 14:30 | What you're saying is possible, but with a huge framework that coordinates everything
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| 14:30 | It can't be done with little scripts, like ltsp is
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| 14:30 | <georgeneophytou> exactly, they will have to return to client1 and either log out first to be able to use client2, or continue working on client1
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| 14:30 | i see
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| 14:30 | <alkisg> And what if client1 has hanged?
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| 14:30 | Again the session file would be there
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| 14:30 | <georgeneophytou> well you're right
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| 14:30 | session files can be bad
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| 14:30 | unless
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| 14:31 | <alkisg> Lock files are supported by the kernel
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| 14:31 | They're a bit better; some ever work over nfs
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| 14:31 | But again they're not really reliable
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| 14:31 | So there would have to be constant client<=>server communication for this to work
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| 14:31 | Like, an ltsp daemon network process
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| 14:31 | Which is not what ltsp is, currently
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| 14:31 | <georgeneophytou> yes
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| 14:31 | true
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| 14:32 | <alkisg> Mayyybeeee in 10 years, ltsp can grow network daemons etc; but atm, epoptes is closer to that, than ltsp
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| 14:32 | <georgeneophytou> well....we could use some epoptes functionality here, as it already has all the requirements ready
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| 14:32 | for example, sending messages to clients, viewing sessions etc
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| 14:33 | <alkisg> Currently epoptes-client can't notify the server though; only the server can request things
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| 14:33 | So that doesn't really fit the requirements either
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| 14:33 | You could implement a separate application, that registers log ins to a network server
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| 14:33 | and does all that you ask, unrelated to ltsp or epoptes
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| 14:34 | For now, what ltsp could do easily, is what I described initially; user2 would kill locked user1's processes
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| 14:34 | <georgeneophytou> do you think this is something worth looking into? I mean, I could look into it
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| 14:34 | would user2 have privileges for that though?
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| 14:34 | <alkisg> I think there are other tasks that are more significant for the majority of users; e.g. the one you said about password
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| 14:35 | You can ping ltsp to do that; or use a setuid binary
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| 14:35 | <georgeneophytou> could you explain?
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> E.g. /usr/sbin/terminate-other-users can be a script that accepts no parameters and just terminates processes from all other users (non system ones)
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| 14:37 | <georgeneophytou> that is one way yes
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| 14:40 | anways, I will think about this over the weekend, time to go home now, have a good weekend and thanks for all the help
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| 14:40 | <alkisg> Bye, have a nice weekend too
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