IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 3 December 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 05:06 | <alkisg> 20:15<vagrantc> alkisg: regarding cdpingerless ltspfs... the last steps are to find some rules for debain that create add/remove events after insertion? ==> yup, either rules or software (udisks)
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| 05:07 | Or, we can ship different hooks for debian (change events) vs ubuntu (add events)
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| 05:12 | <vagrantc> meh
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| 05:13 | alkisg: i'm thinking we should start with different rulesets, just to get it moving
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| 05:14 | can always sync up later
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| 05:14 | tossing out cdpinger would be real nice.
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| 05:15 | <alkisg> vagrantc: sure, and we can get feedback from other distros in the meantime
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| 05:15 | <vagrantc> alkisg: just pushed some changes to the debian packaging brnach you might want to review
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| 05:15 | alkisg: for ltsp
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| 05:15 | * alkisg looks... | |
| 05:16 | <vagrantc> alkisg: for ltspfs, i guess i could just not build it but leave it in the source and patch it out
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| 05:16 | cdpinger, that is
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| 05:17 | alkisg: probably not yet mirrored to launchpad... if that ever resolves itself
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| 05:21 | <alkisg> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/158146200/vagrantc-ltsp-ltsp-debian-packaging.log
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| 05:21 | <vagrantc> oh yeah, and i can't fix it because someone else is using the branch for a recipe.
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| 05:21 | <alkisg> No branch found at remote location.
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| 05:22 | vagrantc: https://launchpad.net/~rsarramera-b/+contactuser
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| 05:22 | Ping him to temporarily remove his recipe..?
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| 05:23 | <vagrantc> or rather, the only way to fix the branch source is to delete it and recreate it with a new url
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| 05:26 | <alkisg> The packaging looks fine, and the idea about leaving cdpinger in the source tree for a while sounds nice too
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| 05:27 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you're ok with all those extra deps?
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| 05:28 | <alkisg> I didn't look in depth why they're there, but we're using 1+ gb chroots here, I don't mind with a few extra deps :)
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| 05:29 | * alkisg would like to get plymouth outside the ubuntu initramfs, though.... stgraber? | |
| 05:29 | <alkisg> (ltsp puts it there)
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| 05:31 | bbl...
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| 05:48 | <vagrantc> stgraber: sync'ed the ltsp packaging changes that were pretty easy in bzr, but still left out a lot.
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| 05:49 | stgraber: still left out ltsp-cluster (/usr/sbin/inventory seems a bit too generic)
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| 05:50 | stgraber: fat-client support in debian requires specifying the desktop, so that'd fail
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| 05:51 | stgraber: merged most of debian/control
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| 05:51 | stgraber: and merged the PID race condition for the udeb
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| 05:51 | * vagrantc now thinks this would've best been an email | |
| 05:52 | <vagrantc> stgraber: oh, and i added ltsp-open, used for remoteapps
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| 05:52 | stgraber: so still a big diff, but at least debian/control is sync'ed
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| 05:54 | stgraber: oh, you'll want to put Ubuntu after debian in the *.install files, otherwise you'll overwrite ubuntu hooks with debian ones
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| 05:54 | though the one case i saw it's a no-op
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| 05:54 | well, a non-issue
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| 05:55 | bennabiy: so ubuntu trusty should now contain the linuxmint support
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| 13:14 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: That is encouraging
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| 13:52 | <rickogden> afternoon
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| 13:53 | I've added SHUTDOWN_TIME to the lts.conf file
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| 13:53 | and now as soon as it a client boots up it comes up with the dialogue box "This system will halt in 10s."
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| 13:54 | anyone else come across this?
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| 13:54 | * Hyperbyte frowns | |
| 13:55 | <rickogden> ah, seems to be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/604908
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| 14:04 | <b3x> good morning, i was in here yesterday with an issue regarding jetpipe. it would not stay running on my thin clients. i am using ubuntu 13.10. I set a cron job to run on the thin clients to restart jetpipe if it wasnt running , and that seems to be getting the job done this morning. was wondering if anyone else was seeing similar problems with jetpipe?
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| 14:11 | <cliebow> b3x:i m sure someone will get back to you..all pretty busy
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| 14:14 | <Hyperbyte> rickogden, if you're just trying to shut down idle clients, try my hack here: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Tips_and_Tricks/User_Experience#Shutting_down_idle_clients
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| 14:14 | I just wrote that up actually.
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| 14:15 | <rickogden> Hyperbyte: thanks
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| 14:16 | it seems that SHUTDOWN_TIME will shutdown any client which is switched on after the time specified
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| 14:16 | <Hyperbyte> Yes.
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| 14:16 | <rickogden> so if I tell it to shutdown at 3am
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| 14:16 | it will attempt to shutdown for the rest of the day
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| 14:16 | <Hyperbyte> !learn shutdownidle as http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Tips_and_Tricks/User_Experience#Shutting_down_idle_clients
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| 14:16 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 14:16 | <Hyperbyte> That link only shuts down clients which aren't logged in, after 10 minutes of not being logged in
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| 14:17 | <rickogden> yeah, I'll use that
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| 14:47 | <Hyperbyte> rickogden, let me know how it works for you
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| 14:48 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: if ! pgrep ssh; then ... is easier to read
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| 14:53 | Also, that "sleep 600" should run in background too...
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| 14:53 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, feel free to edit
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| 14:53 | It's a wiki. ;-)
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| 14:54 | <alkisg> Nope
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| 14:54 | <Hyperbyte> Yep.
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| 14:54 | <alkisg> I don't like wikis where anyone edits any page
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| 14:54 | I like wikis where each person maintains specific pages
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| 14:54 | <Hyperbyte> Because I'm pretty sure the sleep command does run in the background
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| 14:54 | I believe & precedes &&
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| 14:55 | Try running sleep 2 && echo blah & in a terminal
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> Yeah looks like you're rihgt
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| 14:55 | <Hyperbyte> WIN!
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> :)
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| 14:55 | Although... I do have many more objections :D
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| 14:55 | <Hyperbyte> I never thought I'd see the day where I got to correct you on something bash. :-D
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| 14:56 | <alkisg> What if someone logs in for 9 minutes?
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| 14:56 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, sure... I can name a few too. It's easy hack.
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| 14:56 | Yeah, or what if someone leaves their PC for 9 minutes and 50 seconds and then starts to log in
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| 14:56 | <alkisg> That's a "rounding error", it's justified...
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| 14:56 | The other one is a logic error
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| 14:57 | <Hyperbyte> Not for me.
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| 14:57 | Employees here work for 8 hours, not 9 minutes.
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| 14:58 | <alkisg> ...ok, I was about to suggest some better solution but looks like you don't need it :)
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| 14:58 | <Hyperbyte> Well, like I said... feel free to improve. :)
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| 15:01 | It's just a quick & dirty hack to accomplish what I see a lot of people asking here
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| 15:01 | And I've implemented the idle shutdown bit as described both here at work and at the radio station... works fine for us all. :-)
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| 15:19 | <rickogden> Hyperbyte: yeah it does, I've modified it to use poweroff rather than shutdown
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| 15:20 | not left something logged in, which is the next test, but I assume if a fat client is logged on, then it must have an ssh connection to mount the home directory
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| 15:20 | <Hyperbyte> rickogden, yep, works with both fat and thin.
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| 15:21 | <rickogden> I'm still trying to workout why the standard shutdown scripts won't power off the client fully
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| 15:21 | <Hyperbyte> Also, I believe for your server (stale nbd connections and such) it is better to shutdown than to poweroff... but it might not matter much.
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| 15:22 | <rickogden> Hyperbyte: yeah it is, but the clients won't power off
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| 15:22 | <Hyperbyte> Ah... that's why you switched. :)
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| 15:22 | <rickogden> I have to run poweroff -fp
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| 15:22 | for the clients to fully shutdown and power fof
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| 15:22 | s/fof/off
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| 15:23 | I've written an ltsp-init.d script to replace the existing halt/poweroff scripts
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| 15:29 | http://pastebin.com/JGkhhmPM
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| 18:06 | <rkwesk> Today I visited a school that has only some computers connected with ethernet. The rest are wireless.
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| 18:06 | I know that we have said that ltsp only works with ethernet.
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| 18:09 | What I'm hoping is that there might be a way to start the wireless pc's with a local disk containing both the kernel andthe initram disk thatmight load the wifi driver needed and then use the tftp protocol.
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| 18:10 | <vagrantc> technically possible, yes.
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| 18:10 | a good idea, probably not.
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| 18:11 | you're going to have very laggy terminals over wifi
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| 18:11 | <rkwesk> Failing this possibility, might there be a solution that connects the wireless pc with the xserver of the ltsp server?
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| 18:11 | <vagrantc> since they'll all be sharing a single connection to the server
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| 18:11 | sure, nothing tsp-specific, though
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| 18:12 | something like x2go might work
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| 18:12 | <rkwesk> Are you advising not to pursue such a plan?
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| 18:12 | * ogra_ heard from several people using hardware solutions ... ethernet-wlan-bridges | |
| 18:12 | <vagrantc> overall, it's probably not a good idea
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| 18:13 | yeah, a bridge could work, but still limited by the bandwidth and latency and network congestion of wifi
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| 18:13 | <ogra_> well, you can get 150Mbps across nowadays ...
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| 18:14 | <vagrantc> divided by the number of thin clients...
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| 18:14 | <ogra_> would be sufficiant for a desktop ... not for fullscreen video playback perhaps
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| 18:14 | no, not if you use one bridge per client
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| 18:14 | then the wire is the limit again
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| 18:14 | <rkwesk> I am speaking of clients with 512 MB ram or more.
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| 18:14 | <ogra_> its just expensive
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| 18:14 | <vagrantc> there's still interference of all that wifi
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| 18:15 | it just wouldn't scale to more than a few clients
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| 18:16 | <ogra_> yeah, you wont serve 100s
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| 18:16 | <rkwesk> Thank you for the input. I'll keep looking how they might extend their cabling.
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| 18:16 | <b3x> put an install on USB disk?
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| 18:17 | thumb drives are cheap
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| 18:17 | <vagrantc> yeah, then it's not really LTSP
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| 18:17 | <rkwesk> The clients all have proper disks.
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| 18:17 | <vagrantc> and the mai problem isn't the root filesystem over the wifi, it's the session
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| 18:18 | <rkwesk> That's what I'm hearing. I didn't have any experience .
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| 18:19 | Thank you again.
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| 18:19 | Signing off now
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| 18:44 | <||cw> ogra_: what do you mean one bridge per wifi?
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| 18:44 | per client..
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| 18:46 | ogra_: the limit is on the AP side, it's 150Mbps per AP. minus noise and spectrum time-slicing.
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| 19:20 | <lifeboy> Hi all!
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| 19:21 | * vagrantc waves | |
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| 19:22 | <lifeboy> I have Ubuntu 12.04 LTSP with the Greek PPA and a Wheezy chroot, but something is not as I expect it should be
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| 19:24 | <lifeboy> When I ltsp-update-image or ltsp-update-image, it always defaults to booting the chroot with NFS. Is that correct?
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| 19:26 | I know debian LTSP defaults to that, but understood from alkisg in previous discussions on this, that booting a wheezy chroot from an Ubuntu server, I must change the config to use NBD, or should I install an NFS server on Ubuntu to facility mounting the image?
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| 19:29 | <vagrantc> lifeboy: you'll need to configure /opt/ltsp/<wheey_chroot>/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
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| 19:29 | i think there's a variable called BOOT_METHODS
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| 19:32 | BOOT_METHODS="NFS NBD" ... change it to "NBD NFS" or just "NBD"
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| 19:32 | then run ltsp-chroot --arch <wheezy_chroot> /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels
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| 19:33 | <vagrantc> and then: ltsp-update-image ; ltsp-update-kernels
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| 19:34 | lifeboy: alternately configuring the server to support NFS
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| 19:34 | that shouldn't be too hard
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| 19:34 | <lifeboy> I did dig around there, but didn't change anything. I couldn't find the update-kernels which previously was in the chroot, but I 'll try this and let's see if I get it all right!
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| 19:35 | <vagrantc> lifeboy: do you have multiple chroots?
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| 19:35 | <lifeboy> No, just the one. I created a new server in VM to test this.
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| 19:36 | <vagrantc> ok, then you shouldn't need to specify -arch
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| 19:36 | --arch
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| 19:37 | alkisg and I speced out plans for the future that should hopefully be simpler
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| 19:38 | <lifeboy> vagrantc: one more thing. The nbd-server on Ubuntu: do I have to configure it for old-style using port=200x or should I leave that with named pipes (I think which is the default)
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| 19:39 | <vagrantc> i *hope* it uses named exports
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| 19:39 | but i don't remember if 12.04 does
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| 19:39 | <lifeboy> I yes, it doesn't set a port by default
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| 19:39 | Let me test it an check if it work
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| 19:39 | wors
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| 19:39 | <vagrantc> it does use a different naming scheme than wheezy, unfortunately
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| 19:39 | <lifeboy> works! :-o
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| 19:40 | <vagrantc> oh, good
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| 19:40 | maybe it grabbed it from dhcp.
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| 19:40 | <lifeboy> sorry, I meant to say "I'll check if it works", but I typed is wrong each time!
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| 19:42 | <vagrantc> i need to get my bug report filed to support images over NFS working out-of-the box...
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| 20:02 | <lifeboy> vagrantc: the nbd-server works by default, no need to set the old style port.
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| 20:04 | <lifeboy> I have just added a user and openssh-server to the chroot so I can see why I can't logon once I get the debian logon screen
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| 20:06 | <vagrantc> i wonder if ubuntu's ltsp-update-sshkeys is incompatible...
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| 20:07 | <alkisg> 19:39<vagrantc> it does use a different naming scheme than wheezy, unfortunately ==> not with the greek ppa, there the same names are used :)
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| 20:16 | <vagrantc> alkisg: aha! :)
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| 20:17 | <alkisg> vagrantc: also, about the wifi stuff, there's always this:
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| 20:17 | !local-boot
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| 20:17 | <ltsp> local-boot: If you want LTSP fat clients on a low-speed network, you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img and use this command line in pxelinux.cfg: APPEND ro initrd=ltsp/i386/initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/sda1 rootflags=ro loop=/Boot/LTSP/i386.img; IPAPPEND 3
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| 20:17 | <alkisg> I.e. transfer i386 locally and tell grub2 to use it
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| 20:18 | <vagrantc> sure, though it still has issues for the actual session
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| 20:18 | <alkisg> What issues?
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| 20:18 | A wifi connection is OK for sshfs...
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| 20:18 | <vagrantc> if you've got 30+ clients all connecting via wifi?
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| 20:19 | fatclients are probably fine, sure
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| 20:19 | <alkisg> No, Richard was asking about 5-10 clients, typical primary schools...
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| 20:19 | (fat ones)
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| 20:19 | Thin clients => nope, not even 2-3 of them
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| 20:19 | <vagrantc> right
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| 20:20 | * vagrantc -> luncherbreakfasterdinner | |
| 20:20 | <alkisg> :)
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| 20:24 | <lifeboy> I'm making progress :-) Although, after login on the client I get a log entry "nbd9: unknown partition table" and I'm returned to the login screen.
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| 20:26 | I found some references to things like possible not have the same version of squashfs on the client and server... ?
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| 20:26 | <alkisg> The nbd9 message is normal, the returning to login screen isn't
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| 20:26 | Wheezy and 12.04 + Greek PPA have the same versions of pretty much everything
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| 20:27 | If you're using a thin chroot with a unity session, make sure you specify 2d or gnome-fallback
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| 20:28 | <lifeboy> The line after that is: block nbd9: NBD_DISCONNECT. Is that also normal?
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| 20:47 | <alkisg> Yes, it's checking for a newer image
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