IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 6 February 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:02 | <kidar> hi, I am trying to setup a school class room using edubuntu with ltsp. The classroom has old pentium pcs using AMD cpu, 256mb ram and there are 25 pcs in the class room. the edubuntu/ltsp pc is a core i3 with 4gig ram. any help with configuting my setup will be greatly appericiated. Also the pcs connect using gpxe
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| 06:59 | <alkisg> kidar: do you have any specific problems?
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| 07:00 | It should be straight forward to configure edubuntu with ltsp...
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| 07:00 | When you have time, read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/, there are many useful tips for optimizations there
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| 07:01 | E.g. LDM_DIRECTX=True, flow control gotchas etc
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| 07:20 | <kidar> the pcs are very slow and then after 12 are connected the others do not,
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| 07:23 | <alkisg> !lts.conf
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| 07:23 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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| 07:23 | <alkisg> Read about the LDM_DIRECTX=False option there
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| 07:23 | It speeds up *a lot* the clients, at a security cost
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| 07:23 | ***sorry, LDM_DIRECTX=True
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| 07:28 | <kidar> @alksig, when u say at a security cost, what do u mean? also the server is connected to the internet at the moment
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| 07:28 | <alkisg> Read the docs, it says there what I mean
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| 11:31 | <robehend11> if I'm not mistaken, a fat-client chroot can be used as a thin-client chroot as well, correct?
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| 11:33 | <vagrantc> yes
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| 11:34 | <robehend11> does the thin-client part use the fat-clients applications, or will it pull from the servers applications layout
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| 11:37 | <vagrantc> depends on how you configure it
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| 11:39 | <robehend11> well, i was hoping to just set that memory limit in lts.conf. cant remember the command off the top of my head
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| 11:39 | <vagrantc> man lts.conf ?
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| 11:40 | <robehend11> yep, was openign it as we speak.
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| 11:43 | looks like that trigger isnt in the man page, at the moment. But i know it exists, i'd just have to dig in the logs to find it
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| 11:44 | I'm just wondering how to make it use either hte server or the fat-clients applications, since they are different at the moment
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| 11:59 | <alkisg_android> robehend, FAT_RAM_THRESHOLD
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| 12:05 | <robehend11> alkisg_android: ah, there we go. If i put that in for say..a gig of ram, will the clients with 512 megs use the fat-client chroots applications, or will it use the servers applications?
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| 12:05 | since they are currently different
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| 12:06 | <alkisg_android> the servers
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| 12:06 | <robehend11> perfect
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| 12:06 | btw, which irc client you using for android? I haven't found a decent one yet
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| 12:07 | <alkisg_android> yaaic
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| 12:07 | <robehend11> hmm ok
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| 12:09 | <alkisg_android> not bad but I hate the small kbd
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| 12:10 | <robehend11> touch screen keyboard, or hardware?
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| 12:11 | <NeonLicht> Irssi, the client of the future.
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| 12:11 | <alkisg_android> touch screen
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| 12:12 | <NeonLicht> I'm typing from a Zipit Z2 Messenger! :D
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| 12:12 | <robehend11> ah, ya. I cant do touchscreen keyboards, i had to go with a hardware one :
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| 12:13 | <alkisg_android> I'd like to connect a real real one ;-)
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| 12:13 | usb
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| 12:17 | <robehend11> agreed. im sure its possible. but i've never looked into it
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| 12:32 | * vagrantc waves to NeonLicht | |
| 12:32 | <NeonLicht> Hey vagrantc! :)
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| 12:53 | <vagrantc> NeonLicht: long time no chat
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| 12:54 | <NeonLicht> Yes, I've had a crazy semester. Too busy to pay much attention to the IRC. :)
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| 13:29 | <rasthomas> Hello, we haveset up ltsp at a school and have troubles mount usb memory stick at the ltsp clients... Anyone know if it's possible to mount memory stick at client?
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| 13:30 | <NeonLicht> Yes, rasthomas, it is. It works like a charm for me.
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| 13:31 | <rasthomas> Is there a specific setting in any conf file that should be set for it to work?
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| 13:34 | <markit> rasthomas: doesn't appear under /media/username/usblabel (I'm using Kubuntu 10.10)
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| 13:34 | ?
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| 13:34 | <rasthomas> we use opensuse lxde
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| 13:34 | as ltsp server
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| 13:35 | <NeonLicht> I didn't need to do anything, it works fine out of the box in Debian GNU/Linux.
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| 13:36 | <markit> NeonLicht: debian sqeeze or sid (or lenny)?
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| 13:36 | <rasthomas> Normally on opensuse it mounts to /media/... but not our ltsp clients
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| 13:37 | <NeonLicht> Lenny and Squeeze, I haven't done it with Sid, but I'm sure it'll work like in Squeeze.
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| 13:37 | <rasthomas> could you post your lts.conf?
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| 13:37 | * vagrantc watches squeeze and sid diverge by the hour | |
| 13:38 | <NeonLicht> hahaha
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| 13:38 | <vagrantc> rasthomas: on thin clients it should mount in /media/USERNAME/USBDEVICE
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| 13:38 | but opensuse does things a little weird maybe
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| 13:38 | <rasthomas> yes but it doesn't do that for us
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| 13:38 | maybe
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| 13:39 | <vagrantc> rasthomas: your users are in the fuse group? have permission to write to /dev/fuse?
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| 13:41 | <rasthomas> I'll have to check... That might be the problem.
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| 13:47 | there is no fuse group
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| 13:50 | if the user logs on directly at the ltsp server then usb disk mounts
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| 13:56 | <rasthomas> maybe there are some configuration settings that prevents access to local disks on the ltsp client?
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| 13:57 | usb mice and keyboard works but not usb memorysticks...
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| 13:57 | <alkisg> Squeeze is out?! Cool!
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| 13:59 | !kiwi-ltsp
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| 13:59 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "kiwi-ltsp" :: for kiwi-ltsp related questions, you can also ask in the #kiwi-ltsp freenode IRC channel, or visit http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
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| 14:00 | <alkisg> Also I think that ltspfs doesn't work in 64bit servers
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| 14:07 | <hahlo> how do I install latest nvidia drivers to ubuntu 10.10 fatclient? clients has nvidias, server doesn't
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| 14:23 | <alkisg> chroot and apt-get install nvidia-current ?
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| 14:29 | <robehend1> grr. i dislike network problems, espicially when they dont make any sense
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| 14:30 | for some reason beyond my understanding, all my servers are connecting at a max of 2 megs, while everything else is pulling my full six. tried switching cords, rebooting the switch, rebooting the router, all the servers, etc. Weird stuff
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| 14:39 | <markit> alkisg: my server is 64 bit... and plugging usb in 32 bit clients works, is this related with your previous statement?
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| 14:40 | <alkisg> markit: yes, I thought this wasn't working. Maybe it's for 64bit clients that it's not working
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| 14:40 | <markit> robehend1: have you tested with some tool? or just an impression?
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| 14:41 | <robehend1> markit: used speedtest.net
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| 14:41 | <robehend1> markit: at first i thought it was the switch, but no go, swapped it out even to test. Then i thought it might be the firewall, but its showing no errors, and all the other clients are fine. hence my confusion.
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| 14:43 | <markit> robehend1: are you then talking of speed to the internet, not from server to clients, right?
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| 14:43 | <robehend1> markit: yeppers. also, all apt-gets are maxing out at 40 kb/s, most. averaging 20 kb/s
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| 14:43 | <hahlo> ok thanks
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| 14:44 | <hahlo> then ltsp-update-kernels?
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| 14:44 | <markit> robehend1: maybe is just your connection provider that has some problems, your router/modem overheated, or wharever
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| 14:45 | <robehend1> markit: i thought that to, but other clients on the lan are connecting fine. really weird issue is that the server is plugged right into the main switch, that feeds all the other clients.
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| 14:45 | <vagrantc> rasthomas: the usb keyboard/mouse work because X.org is running locally. the usb sticks use ltspfs to make usb devices appear over the network.
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| 14:45 | <markit> robehend1: oh, I see... mmmm... ip conflict? have you tried to look at traffic with wireshark?
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| 14:45 | <vagrantc> rasthomas: and ltspfs uses fuse. i don't know how fuse is configured on opensuse, but you'll need to make sure your users have access to fuse filesystems.
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| 14:45 | <markit> robehend1: change switch port, change cables
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| 14:46 | <robehend1> markit: i'm not familiar enough with wireshark to do much good, to be honest. but its happening on all the servers in that room. i've changed ports, changed cables, and even tried a whole different switch.
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| 14:46 | <markit> measure with iperf the traffic in LOCAL lan among your slow servers
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| 14:47 | robehend1: only servers and not clients..what do they have in common and what is the difference with clients? ip range (so a firewall has some QoS rule?)? OS?
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| 14:48 | <robehend1> markit: both os's, win2k3 and ubuntu 10.04 are affected. ip range is different, one is 192.168.1.x and the other is 192.168.2.x. I'm in the firewall, dont see any QoS, nor do i remember making once.
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| 14:48 | <markit> robehend1: setup a test with iperf among 2 or more servers, just to be sure that they don't have problems going high speed through the switch
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| 14:48 | <robehend1> brb, gonna reboot firewall, perhaps that'll help
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| 14:48 | <markit> robehend1: let's hope :)
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| 14:49 | wondering if with "clients" was talking about ltsp clients connected to the ubuntu server, lol
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| 14:49 | <robehend1> ha no prob
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| 14:49 | let me tell you though. it was hell trying to work on this thing remotely, with speeds like this
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| 15:22 | <markit> I would like to record a client seesion with recordmydesktop, is it possible? running from kdenlive gives an unspecified error, running from command line (but don't know the right parameters) tells "X Error bad access (attempt to access private resource denied)
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| 15:27 | <markit> maybe should be run as local app, after being installed in chroot
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| 15:27 | * markit confused | |
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| 15:37 | <alkisg> markit: try searching for a "no shared memory" parameter
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| 15:37 | <alkisg> E.g. for vnc it's "-noshm", maybe those apps have something equivalent
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| 15:38 | <markit> --no-shared
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| 15:38 | Disable usage of MIT-shared memory extension (Not Recommended).
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| 15:38 | alkisg: but it's recording X-server, and X-server is run on the client...
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| 15:39 | so should be local app or not?
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| 15:39 | <alkisg> markit: try with --no-shared, this should work
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| 15:39 | If it's really slow, then you can try installing it as a local apps
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| 15:40 | <markit> alkisg: btw, some day ago you told me, about my clients crash, "you should audit your clients". Any tools that I can run at startup that can report usage statistic of server (cpu/ram/etc) and have le logs of the clients ?
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| 15:41 | <alkisg> markit: I didn't tell you to audit your clients
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| 15:42 | I don't know what that means
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| 15:43 | <markit> :)
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| 15:43 | <markit> ok, I'm thinking of 2 "problems" when the school will use much more the server
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| 15:44 | a) I would love to have a log or some chart or some data about the resource usage,just to be able to understand if the server is ok, if I need more ram, if the cpu is slow, etc
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| 15:44 | b) if a client crashes, I can't count upon "user's reports", they are too confused, not useful to troubleshoot
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| 15:44 | so I would love to have some log in some way, or something that can help me
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| 15:44 | any idea? what do you use/do?
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| 15:46 | <vagrantc> you can enable remote syslogging on your LTSP server, and i believe the thin-clients will remotely syslog by default ... if not read lts.conf to enable it
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> And for server monitoring, http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/top-linux-monitoring-tools.html
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| 15:47 | I was also adviced to use munin for a period, worked nice
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| 15:49 | <markit> ok, thanks for the tips
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| 15:50 | I'm trying to produce some screencasts to give to children and teachers, so maybe they become more familiar with kde and ltsp
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| 15:51 | I've tried / I'm triying to write a manual, but I've the feeling is too complicated
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| 15:51 | they don't know the basic terminology
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| 15:51 | <alkisg> I think screencasts over LTSP will be kinda slow, better to do that on a good standalone machine (e.g. on the server itself :D)
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| 15:51 | <markit> also I'm shocked day by day about how people don't even know about what a OS is and that "computer" is not windows!
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| 15:51 | <alkisg> (or on a good fat client)
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| 15:52 | <markit> alkisg: server here at home is a VM, kvm one, and I've very slow screen sigh
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| 15:52 | the fat client idea id good instead, even if the config I'm using is for thin clients, so I have to goole around to find how create a fat one
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| 15:52 | (I know your wonderful script can have mixed environment auto-cofnigured, sigh)
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> No that's supported upstream
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| 15:53 | <markit> btw, still improving it? is edubuntu aware of it's existence?
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> It's not because of my scripts
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| 15:53 | <markit> alkisg: I thought that the "512MB thresold" was on your script
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> All greek labs that use ubuntu/ltsp are using it, but I'll work more on itafter my phd
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| 15:53 | <markit> I think that become a LTSP expert is not trivial... I feel so newbie every day
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> No, I added FAT_RAM_THRESHOLD upstream, it's not on my script
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| 15:54 | <markit> alkisg: oh, even better :) (so everyone is beneficing)
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| 15:55 | but once you are a "fat client", you will run ONLY apps that are in chroot, correct? (you will no more see the ones in the server)
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> There are "remoteapps" if you ever need that
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| 15:55 | They're like the opposite of "localapps" for thin clients
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| 15:56 | * alkisg doesn't use localapps nor remoteapps | |
| 15:56 | <markit> btw, googling for FAT_RAM_THRESHOLD does not point to a ltsp page of explaination
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| 15:56 | alkisg: urgh, what do you use?
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| 15:56 | <alkisg> Plain thin or plain fat clients
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| 15:56 | Not mixed modes, they're too difficult for teachers to understand
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| 15:56 | (and administer)
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| 15:57 | But in the same lab they can have both thin and fat
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| 15:57 | <markit> but in a classroom you can have some PC with 256MB and some with 1GBm so you have to install and setup server and chroot, correct?
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> (automatically, based on RAM)
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| 15:57 | Right. So I tell them "if you have at least one good PC (or more), select a fat chroot from the sch-scripts wizard"
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| 15:57 | "if all are old, select a thin chroot"
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| 15:57 | And the fat chroot of course serves both fat and thin...
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| 16:00 | <markit> yes, but you have to keep server and fat-chroot in sync (program installed, configurations, etc)
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| 16:00 | or am I missing something?
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> Right. For programs, we have another wizard that installs program lists depending on the education level of the school (primary, secondary etc)
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| 16:01 | And it automatically installs them to both the server + the chroot, if it's a fat one
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| 16:02 | So the teacher just needs to select "I'm a high school", nothing more
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| 16:02 | For configuration, it's done by our package
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| 16:02 | Both in the server + the fat chroot
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| 16:02 | So for a simple setup it's all automatic
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| 16:03 | <markit> would't be easier produce a customized dvd?
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| 16:03 | (or .iso to download)
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| 16:03 | <alkisg> No because we'd need to update it every time
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| 16:03 | Now it even works in other ubuntu flavors
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| 16:03 | <alkisg> E.g. the teacher can select an ubuntu/edubuntu/lubuntu/xubuntu/kubuntu fat chroot
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| 16:04 | * markit loves Kubuntu :) | |
| 16:04 | <alkisg> I love Qt, but I hate Kubuntu :D
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| 16:04 | <markit> my "hell" has been customize kubuntu (KDE), some issues are still open
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| 16:04 | <alkisg> OK I should have chosen less strong verbs :D
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| 16:04 | <markit> lol, me either
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| 16:12 | * vagrantc is fond of tritium, but prefers to subject people to lxde | |
| 16:17 | <markit> alkisg: capturing with that parameter works, you are a genious! Audio is terrible, but maybe I will fix later,or avoid recording and add later
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| 16:17 | alkisg: I would be lost without your help (since long time)
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| 16:17 | <alkisg> :)
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| 16:18 | You're welcome. It's late here, g'night all...
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| 16:24 | <HrdwrBoB> hm
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| 16:24 | I seem to be having a similar problem to https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/kiwi-users/2010-February/001647.html
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| 16:24 | clicfs corruption
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| 16:26 | <robehend1> markit: wasn't the firewall. started runnign out of time, so now i'm just working on getting back to a client that kids can log into, for tommorrow
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| 16:43 | <markit> robehend1: ok
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| 16:44 | sleep time, bye all
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| 16:44 | <robehend1> markit: i'm gonna call in tommorrow to the ISP, see if there end has gone kapoowy, but I doubt it
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| 16:44 | see ya!
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| 16:44 | <markit> try iperf first
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| 16:44 | among 2 servers through the switch
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| 16:44 | just in case...
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| 16:44 | <robehend1> tried that, i kept getting 'connection refused"
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| 16:45 | <markit> ?
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| 16:45 | a firewall that blocks the port used by iperf I suppose
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| 16:45 | <robehend1> on a local network/
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| 16:45 | well, software i guess, but i didnt configure any firewalls for these machiens
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| 16:45 | <markit> wincrap has a firewall running
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| 16:45 | by default
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| 16:45 | <robehend1> nah, went to a ubuntu 10.10 box
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| 16:46 | <markit> too tired to troubleshoot further, lol
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| 16:46 | see you tomorrow
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| 16:46 | <robehend1> no prob, see ya
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| 17:35 | <Gremble> Bertl, now I have some oddness with my vserver setup
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| 17:36 | bucket:~# vserver ex386-squeeze enter
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| 17:36 | vlogin: fork(): Try again
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| 17:36 | this seems to happen at random
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| 17:37 | I cannot enter the guest
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| 17:38 | <Gremble> bucket:~# vserver ex386-squeeze restart
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| 17:38 | /etc/init.d/rc: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable
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| 17:38 | error: '/etc/init.d/rc' exited outside the expected code flow.
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| 17:39 | 2.6.36.2-vs2.3.0.36.38.2
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| 17:41 | I'll get compiling a more up-to-date kernel
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| 17:52 | oops, wrong channel!!
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