IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 24 December 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:49 | <warren> Ryan52: how many of which are upstream bugs?
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| 03:51 | <Ryan52> warren, most of them are not processed, so who knows...I didn't actually look at them :)
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| 04:33 | <adeel> is there any information as to the network utilization with LTSP deployed for a reasonable number of clients (20-50)?
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| 05:06 | <alkisg> adeel: I haven't seen anything official... It depends largely on the usage, e.g. googleearth => 45 Mbps for each client, OpenOffice => 1.5 Mbps for each client... So you can't really take an average.
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| 05:12 | <adeel> alkisg, well i'm planning on basic office usage...i'm thinking of xfce4 with the standard office utils (OO,firefox, thunderbird, basic games)
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| 05:14 | in terms of security, is it worth-while to put the LTSP server & clients in their own vlan?
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| 05:14 | <alkisg> adeel, the environment (gnome/kde/xfce), OO and thunderbird are no problems, but flash-based sites and full screen games may cause a network bottleneck.
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| 05:15 | (or even a CPU bottleneck)
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| 05:15 | <adeel> alkisg, well i don't plan on having any full screen games...just simple stuff like xboard and solitaire, etc....flash will definitely be a royal pita...but i'm hoping to do bonded gigE ports on the servers
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| 05:16 | <alkisg> flash will hog the CPU before the network, so you should also have quad core if you can.
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| 05:17 | <adeel> if the load on the current server (dual quad core xeon e5405 with 16 gb ram) is too much, i can always add more
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| 05:21 | <alkisg> adeel, let me give you some more benchmarks: gimp or tuxpaint or OOo => 1,5 Mbps per user / CPU ~2% per user, firefox + youtube => 22Mbps / 10% CPU, xvid 600x350 playback with totem => 60 mbps / 6% CPU
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| 05:21 | (Averages from a 10-pc lab)
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| 05:22 | (dual core, pci gigabit)
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| 05:22 | <adeel> damn, xvid is that network intensive?
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| 05:22 | is this via XDMCP/rdesktop/vnc/nx?
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| 05:22 | <alkisg> Sure, 600x350x16 bit per pixel x 20 frames per second is a lot of data...
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| 05:23 | <adeel> yeah, i recall having issues with video playback over xdmcp
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| 05:23 | <alkisg> No, plain LTSP (=ssh -X). Actually I disabled encryption on the tests to save CPU (but that incresed network usage)
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| 05:24 | There's a setting for that, LDM_DIRECTX=True in a file called lts.conf
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| 05:24 | If you're going to use it, you'd probably want to put the clients in a seperate vlan for security
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| 05:25 | <adeel> well using ssh -X to playback a video file doesn't appear to be the most efficient method...i wonder if xdmcp might be faster
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| 05:26 | <alkisg> LDM_DIRECTX=True translates to ssh -Y, so no encryption there.
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| 05:26 | <adeel> ah ok
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| 05:27 | <alkisg> Anyway gotta go, good luck.
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| 05:27 | <adeel> thanks for the advice, see ya later
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| 09:13 | <sbalneav> Morning all!
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| 09:17 | <Gadi> !s
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| 09:17 | <ltspbot`> Gadi: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 09:18 | <rjune__> !g
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| 09:18 | <ltspbot`> rjune__: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 09:18 | <rjune__> !s
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| 09:18 | <ltspbot`> rjune__: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 09:20 | <Gadi> hey, rjune
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| 09:20 | either of you guys play with vpn clients much?
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| 09:21 | <rjune__> Uhm, a bit.
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| 09:21 | * Gadi is looking around for a nice swiss-army-knife client | |
| 09:21 | * Gadi is comparing vpnc and ike | |
| 09:22 | <rjune__> http://wiki.imagestream.com/wiki/OpenVPN
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| 09:22 | Hrm
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| 09:22 | never used either of those
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| 09:22 | <Gadi> ah
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| 09:22 | what do you use?
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| 09:22 | openvpn's client?
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| 09:22 | or the proprietary one from the vendor
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| 09:23 | <rjune__> opengui on windows.
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| 09:23 | and config files on linux
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| 09:23 | that was written for our routers, which are capable of being openvpn terminators
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| 09:24 | How was the eight crazy nights this year?
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| 09:24 | <Gadi> well, 3 down, 5 to go
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| 09:25 | seems like in keeping with the festival of lights theme, most of Beni's presents have been star wars theme
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| 09:25 | <rjune__> sweet
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| 09:25 | <Gadi> festival of light sabres
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| 09:25 | <rjune__> fantastic
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| 09:25 | I got GI Joe for one son, and a space ship for the other
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| 09:25 | <Gadi> gi joe is still around?
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| 09:26 | <rjune__> yup
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| 09:26 | <Gadi> wow
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| 09:26 | <rjune__> Daughter got some video games.
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| 09:26 | <Gadi> cool
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| 09:27 | I finally got off my butt this year and dove into Web2.0
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| 09:27 | * Gadi became facebook-aware | |
| 09:27 | <rjune__> wow
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| 09:27 | <Gadi> and skype enabled
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| 09:27 | <rjune__> I got a linked in account
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| 09:27 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 09:27 | * Gadi feels like an old fart | |
| 09:28 | <rjune__> and wrote a web 2.0 app
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| 09:28 | <Gadi> nice
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| 09:31 | <pscheie> morning all
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| 09:32 | bandwidth aside, for a netbook, say, to pxe boot over wireless, could parameters such as SSID be placed in the BIOS?
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| 09:33 | I realize this is just speculation
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| 09:36 | <Gadi> can they be in the BIOS, sure
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| 09:36 | will you be apt to find them there, no
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| 09:36 | <pscheie> right, I know that
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| 09:36 | <Gadi> and almost surely not the drivers
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| 09:37 | <pscheie> but I wonder if the coreboot folks are considering it
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| 09:37 | <Gadi> I dont think there are low-level BIOS calls that can be made to configure a wireless card
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| 09:37 | oh, prolly not
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| 09:38 | <pscheie> what additional parameters are needed vs. wired?
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| 09:40 | I'm just trying to understand what is preventing pxe-over-wireless; I assume it's difficult or someone would be doing it
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| 09:40 | <sbalneav> pscheie: PXE over wireless is easy.
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| 09:41 | You just need the right hardware :)
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| 09:41 | Use a regular ethernet adapter, and get one of the "gaming wireless adapters" that dlink sells
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| 09:42 | ethernet plugs in one side, it's wireless on the other.
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| 09:42 | <pscheie> sbalneav, oh, I've done that ;-)
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| 09:42 | <sbalneav> ah, ok.
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| 09:42 | <pscheie> I'm thinking more along the lines of a netbook TC that boots over wireless in the classroom
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| 09:43 | 802.11b/g don't have the bandwidth, but n might if it every standardizes
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| 09:43 | *might*, I say
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| 09:44 | and I just want to understand the details of what prevents that from being viable
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| 09:45 | <sbalneav> I think it's basically "Lack of bios functions"
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| 09:45 | Most wireless adapters are either secret USB devices, or secret PCMCIA devices
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| 09:46 | Some arent, but for those that are, you'd have to have the bios bring up the usb or pcmcia bus, set the essid, any encryption keys, yadda yadda yadda
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| 09:46 | So you'd need a whole page in the bios setup for key, essid, etc.
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| 09:47 | I'd expect the LinuxBIOS project might be of some use, but they target a fairly small set of mobos.
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| 09:48 | <pscheie> that's why I was thinking of coreboot (formerly LinuxBIOS)
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| 09:48 | <sbalneav> Oh, is that what it's called now?
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| 09:48 | <pscheie> yes, I found that out just the other day myself
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| 09:49 | but you're correct, they focus on a small number of mobos
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| 09:49 | have to
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| 09:49 | <sbalneav> I've given up following them. Unless something's changed in the last few years, their focus was on high-end mobos used in huge cluster boxes
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| 09:49 | getting cluster nodes booted quickly
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| 09:50 | <rjune__> pscheie: I did a cd boot image for wireless terminals
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| 09:50 | <pscheie> It's a shame no laptop or netbook OEMs have looked at adding such an option to the BIOS
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| 09:51 | <rjune__> basically took the LTSP boot image and added wireless drivers, then burned the thing to cd
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| 09:51 | <pscheie> but I suppose wireless chips are still enough of a moving target that it'd be difficult
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| 09:51 | <rjune__> in theory, it could be done as a boot rom
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| 09:51 | <pscheie> rjune_, my latest idea is to do the same but with a pico USB key
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| 09:52 | Gadi's demo key gave me the idea
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| 09:52 | <rjune__> yeah, that should work.
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| 09:52 | <pscheie> they cost a lot more $ than a CD of course
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| 09:52 | <Gadi> pscheie: that key supports wireless
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| 09:52 | <sbalneav> What's the ratio of notebook users who want to boot off the notebook's hard drive, versus the number of notebook users who want to boot it wirelessly. Calculate your ratio, and you'll have your answer why they haven't done it.
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| 09:52 | <rjune__> boot off of cf or sd if the laptop supports it
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| 09:52 | <pscheie> kids more likely to take them
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| 09:52 | <Gadi> go ahead and plug it in
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| 09:52 | <rjune__> sbalneav: +1
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| 09:53 | <pscheie> Gadi, I did, but I don't think I got the wireless option to work (can't remember now)
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| 09:53 | <Gadi> hmm
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| 09:53 | <pscheie> on my Toshiba
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| 09:53 | <Gadi> you can update it
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| 09:55 | <pscheie> Gadi, I can't remember how it looks (and don't have it with me ATM) but does it ask for various wireless parameters?
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| 09:55 | <Gadi> pscheie: by default, it will connect to "any"
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| 09:56 | you can go to the network tab and add SSID and WEP key
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| 09:56 | * Gadi doesnt have all the WPA stuff in yet | |
| 09:56 | <Gadi> well, I do, but not in the GUI
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| 09:56 | see - wireless gets complicated
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| 09:56 | :)
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| 09:57 | one of the updates I made since hackfest was to use wired if plugged in, and wireless if not
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| 09:57 | because I had some folks where both interfaces were activated and it was causing routing issues
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| 10:07 | <pscheie> stgraber said he'd put a stripped down ubuntu onto a netbook and then used NX to connect over wireless
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| 10:07 | very low bandwidth usage
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| 10:07 | but that wouldn't do so well for localapps/video
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| 11:23 | <rjune__> GodFather: sup ron
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| 11:45 | <jammcq> happy holidays to all my friends on #ltsp
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| 11:45 | <rjune__> !J
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| 11:45 | <ltspbot`> rjune__: "J" is jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 11:46 | <rjune__> Merry Christmahannakwanzika!
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| 11:46 | <jammcq> don't forget happy festivus
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| 11:54 | <rjune__> jammcq: you ready for xmas?
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| 11:55 | <jammcq> ready? born ready
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| 11:56 | <rjune__> heh
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| 11:56 | you on linkedin?
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| 11:56 | <jammcq> nope
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| 11:56 | I made a decision a long time ago to not get on all those social networking sites
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| 11:56 | I get 1 or 2 invites a week
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| 11:59 | <rjune__> heh
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| 11:59 | they all want the prestige of being the site with *THE* jammcq
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| 12:01 | jammcq: got a wii?
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| 12:01 | <jammcq> nope, no wii
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| 12:10 | <rjune__> what do you do for fuN?
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| 12:10 | <jammcq> hmm
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| 12:11 | <rjune__> 'tis a joke
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| 12:12 | I'm assuming you do something crazy like spend time with your family for fun
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| 12:17 | <_UsUrPeR_> that's just crazy enough to work
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| 12:17 | I picked up left 4 dead for the PC
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| 16:35 | <kc8pxy> johhny you there?
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| 16:37 | <johnny> hi
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| 16:37 | barely..
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| 16:39 | <kc8pxy> i know last time i was here, you were helping me get a gentoo ltsp up and working.
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| 16:39 | <johnny> sure
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| 16:41 | <kc8pxy> if i frie up that box again, are you free to help me work out thekinks? i had a failed ltsp-build-client run last time.
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| 16:42 | <johnny> not really..
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| 16:42 | it's christmas eve
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| 16:42 | <kc8pxy> kk
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| 16:42 | :-9
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| 16:42 | :-(
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| 16:42 | i understand
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| 16:42 | <johnny> i'd suggest trying again
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| 16:42 | sync the new ltsp
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| 16:42 | <kc8pxy> kk
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| 16:42 | <johnny> rm -rf /usr/portage/packages/x86*
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| 16:43 | emerge ltsp-server
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| 16:43 | and then run ltsp-build-client --quickstart-verbose --quickstart-debug
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| 16:43 | and let me know what happens
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| 16:43 | i'll check back periodically
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| 16:44 | i've fixed a few things since then
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| 16:44 | like relying on daniel robbin's stage3s
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| 16:44 | instead of gentoo's really old 2008.0
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| 16:45 | <kc8pxy> robbins is back in the pickture?
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| 16:45 | <johnny> i'll switch back to the official gentoo stages as soon as there are newer ones
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| 16:45 | not with gentoo exactly
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| 16:45 | www.funtoo.org
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| 16:45 | but he builds gentoo stages
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| 16:47 | <kc8pxy> interesting
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| 16:48 | so a variant on his old baby.
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| 17:06 | <adeel> is it possible to run multiple ltsp variants on one ltsp server without resorting to virtualization? basically i have 2 different user bases, internal & public kiosks and i need different apps for each
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| 17:41 | <johnny> sure...different chroots
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| 17:53 | <adeel> what config changes, if any, must be made?
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| 18:00 | <Ryan52> you need to create another chroot with ltsp-build-client (but in a different place)
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| 18:01 | add that place to your /etc/exports or the nbd config (sorry, dunno where that is) depending on whether you use nfs or nbd
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| 18:01 | and change your dhcp or pxelinux configs to point to the place for certain machines
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| 18:01 | (you can base that on network or mac address)
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| 18:02 | <adeel> interesting...too bad you can't do a session type thing with ldm
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| 18:02 | <warren> haha... somebody is posting spam to the spamassassin bugzilla.
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| 18:02 | <Ryan52> heh
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| 18:02 | adeel: well, wait, what exactly do you need.
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| 18:03 | it could be possible, depending on what differences you need.
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| 18:05 | * warren sees if there is anything upstream important to build in fedora | |
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| 18:07 | <rjune__> warren: why are you working tonight?
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| 18:07 | <warren> rjune__: only 2pm
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| 18:07 | oh man. It got down to 70F last night. I was freezing.
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| 18:09 | <rjune__> pussy
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| 18:09 | you and your hawaiian winters.
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| 18:09 | of course, we're all jealous of you
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| 18:10 | <adeel> Ryan52, 2 completely different environments, preferably selectable...either through a drop down menu, or via username
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| 18:10 | <rjune__> jammcq and I routinely see 0F, and cliebow gets even colder
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| 18:10 | <Ryan52> adeel: what does "environment" mean?
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| 18:10 | adeel: window managers?
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| 18:11 | <adeel> Ryan52, no, the WM can stay the same...but i need different apps for the different sessions....basically 1 session is for internal users, with the other being for public/kiosk users
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| 18:11 | <tinpardo> hi
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| 18:11 | merry chirstmas
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| 18:12 | <rjune__> and happy new year
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| 18:13 | <Ryan52> adeel, probably no easy way to do that without separate vms, and choosing from a host list..
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| 18:13 | if you use separate window managers you might be able to have one show certain things and the other show the other things, but...that's hackish and messy.
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| 18:13 | <adeel> Ryan52, hmmm...yeah i figured as much...i'll fiddle with it later on then
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| 18:32 | <warren> Ryan52: any more plans to change ldm?
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| 18:32 | Ryan52: that latest change fixes something that was annoying me, so maybe tag...
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| 18:34 | * warren just tags it | |
| 18:38 | <Ryan52> no more plans.
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| 20:21 | <petre> warren, ping
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| 20:22 | <warren> petre: pong
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| 20:22 | petre: tried the untested F10 image?
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| 20:22 | I tried it, it seems to work.
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| 20:22 | <petre> no, hope to try tomorrow, haven't had any days off yet
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| 20:22 | gotta work the day after xmas, too
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| 20:23 | <warren> petre: ok, spinning a new one for upload
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| 20:23 | <petre> any idea on the selinux rule breaking rpcbind on f9?
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| 20:23 | or, more precisely, what I need to do to fix it?
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| 20:23 | <warren> petre: did you build that on a F9 host?
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| 20:23 | * petre has generally run with selinux set to warn | |
| 20:24 | <petre> warren, yes
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| 20:24 | <warren> all updates installed?
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| 20:24 | <petre> hmm, I think so, although that was a few days ago, and there are some updates nagging me now
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| 20:25 | <warren> petre: try installing all updates on the host and do it again, see if it happens again
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| 20:25 | <petre> ok
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| 20:25 | <warren> oh
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| 20:25 | I didn't put your latest quickstart RPM in the repo
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| 20:25 | * warren does that now | |
| 20:26 | <petre> warren, speaking of which, what is the process for getting a new version into the repo, should I happen to make one?
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| 20:27 | <warren> petre: is the package review complete?
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| 20:27 | petre: approved?
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| 20:27 | <petre> Fabrice said the package was approved
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| 20:27 | <warren> petre: if so, you can follow the fedora package process, checkin and build it directly in fedora
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| 20:27 | <petre> I haven't looked at the bugzilla ticket since then
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| 20:28 | got a link to something that explains that process?
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| 20:30 | <warren> petre: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/Join
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| 20:31 | <petre> warren, oh, good, that was the page I found
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| 20:35 | <warren> petre: oh, you need to do the "Get Sponsored" procedure, I'll sponsor you.
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| 20:36 | <petre> warren, ok, tx. Need to get fedora-packager installed and familiarize myself with koji
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| 20:37 | <warren> petre: you need to get your account sponsored, request the CVS stuff for this new package, and familiarize yourself with the tools.
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| 20:41 | <petre> warren, ok, I've applied to the packager group
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| 20:44 | <warren> petre: ok done, will take ~1 hour for CVS to work with that account
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| 20:44 | petre: you can request CVS module creation in the mean time
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| 20:50 | <petre> warren, will livecd-creator update the packages in the cache I specified with --cache= ?
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| 20:50 | <warren> petre: yes
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| 21:44 | <petre> warren, I'm getting the same 'selinux is blocking rpcbind' error on a brand new build
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| 21:45 | just updated the host, too
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