IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 30 May 2014 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:54 | <alkisg> Does anyone disable the zeitgeist package in his LTSP installations in order to save server CPU and RAM?
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| 01:55 | It's supposed to monitor user activity... /me hates all those services that run by default and waste precious resources...
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| 01:55 | Hyperbyte: ltsp-update-kernels sees that you have an i386.img but not a chroot
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| 01:55 | It doesn't know where you got i386.img from, it doesn't know you're using ltsp-pnp
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| 01:56 | So it just copies to the tftp, the kernels that are inside i386.img, not the ones from /boot
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| 01:56 | That's the same since the beginning of ltsp-pnp, it's not something new that started in 14.04...
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| 01:56 | So just run ltsp-update-image to create a new i386.img
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| 09:00 | <engblom> After the latest update I did to wheezy running ltsp, it is not possible to use USB-sticks anymore. Do anyone of you know any fix or workaround for this?
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| 14:02 | <Faith> anyone knows how can I manipulate the username on LDM?
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| 14:03 | <||cw> what do you mean
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| 14:03 | manipulate how
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| 14:04 | <bennabiy> alkisg: http://ftp.heanet.ie/mirrors/linuxmint.com/stable/17/ early bird special if you wanted to try your greek again
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| 14:05 | <Faith> I am having the slash issue with LDM, I want know where it is going wrong
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| 14:05 | example, user DOMAIN\user
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| 14:06 | <bennabiy> Are you authenticating using SAMBA?
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| 14:06 | Faith ^
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| 14:06 | <Faith> samba and winbind
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| 14:07 | <bennabiy> Hmm. Perhaps someone else has more experience with that...
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| 14:07 | What is happening? Also, what Distro, architecture etc, are you using?
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| 14:07 | The more info you can put out there, the more likely someone can help you
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| 14:07 | <Faith> ubuntu server 12.04 amd64
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| 14:08 | when I do on the server: ssh DOMAIN\\user@localhost
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| 14:08 | it is work
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| 14:08 | when I try this on LDM, in the logs I saw that it makes the ssh connection
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| 14:09 | but LDM did not find the user with the 2 slashs and logout
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| 14:09 | I use 2 slash, cause 1 is for the scape
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| 14:10 | I try 'DOMAIN\user', DOMAIN\\user, theses two works on ssh, but not on LDM
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| 14:12 | I was looking the shell files on the chroot, to try manipulate the username, but I didn't find where
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| 14:13 | do you know where the username from LDM is manipulate?
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> !screen_02
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| 14:16 | <ltsp`> screen_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> Faith: try ssh from there ^
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| 14:16 | bennabiy: ty, I'll try it sometime in the future, unfortunately too busy this month
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| 14:24 | <Faith> the ssh works
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| 14:25 | <alkisg> Faith: run `tail -f /var/log/ldm.log` from screen_02, then switch to vt7, and retry to login from ldm
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| 14:25 | Then switch back to vt1 and check the log...
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| 14:31 | <Faith> what is the site that I can paste the log?
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| 14:31 | <Ark74> pastebin?
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| 14:31 | <alkisg> !pastebin
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| 14:31 | <ltsp`> pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 14:32 | <Faith> tks :)
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| 14:38 | http://pastebin.com/msdH5RSy
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| 14:38 | DOMAIN\\usuario is my domain user and 'sti' is a local user on LTSP server
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| 14:39 | you can see from log that the domain user can make the ssh but fails on ltsp-localappsd
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| 14:41 | <alkisg> Yup looks like a bug
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| 14:41 | !ltsp-bug
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| 14:41 | <ltsp`> ltsp-bug: To file a bug report for upstream LTSP, go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp
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| 14:42 | <Faith> I will open a report there
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| 14:42 | tks :D
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| 15:08 | <Faith> alkisg, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1324971
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| 15:12 | <alkisg> Faith: btw, does it work with DOMAIN//user ?
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| 15:12 | Or, can you set another separator?
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| 15:13 | <Faith> I didn't try another separator, I just try what is work in ssh
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| 15:14 | I try 'DOMAIN\user' also, with quotation
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| 15:14 | it has the same result
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> Faith: ah, did you say 12.04?
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| 15:16 | Can you pastebin your version of X01-localapps ?
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| 15:17 | <Faith> yeah, wait a minute
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| 15:24 | alkisg, http://pastebin.com/esb0gLzm
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> Ah ok that's the old version
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| 15:24 | I rewrote that script, it should work now...
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| 15:25 | !greek-schools-ppa
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| 15:25 | <ltsp`> greek-schools-ppa: https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/ supports LTS Ubuntu releases with newer LTSP versions, bug fixes etc
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> This does have a newer version, but warning: don't just add it
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| 15:25 | <Faith> if I cannot just add, what can I do?
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> You would need to remove the ltsp packages, purge /etc/ltsp, and then add it...
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| 15:25 | and then install the ltsp packages...
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| 15:26 | Some things were changed after 12.04 so the upgrade isn't very smooth
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| 15:26 | nbd config is different, etc
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| 15:26 | !ltsp-source
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| 15:26 | <ltsp`> ltsp-source: at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/files
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| 15:26 | <alkisg> You can find the latest versions of files there
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| 15:26 | Maybe you can start from there,
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| 15:27 | i.e. try the newest X01-localapps from there
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| 15:27 | <Faith> I try the new ubuntu 14.04, but I couldn't make it join the domain, that's why I am using 12.04
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| 15:28 | can I try just replace the X01-localapp on chroot?
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| 15:28 | <alkisg> Yes, try it: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/view/head:/client/localapps/ldm-rc.d/X01-localapps
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| 15:29 | Faith: ping me if it works... I rewrote that script to make it 100 times faster, but I think I also solved the issue you mentioned, with weird characters in AD, LDAP etc
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| 15:29 | <Faith> I am going to lunch now, after that I will try, and say if it works
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| 15:30 | <alkisg> ok
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| 15:30 | <Faith> thank you :)
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| 17:12 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: Why does debian not implement some type of ppa?
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| 17:13 | <||cw> there's a few launchpad ppa's that support debian
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| 17:13 | debian itself doens't feel it needs it, since you add apt sources all you want
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| 17:13 | and it's really not that hard to make a repo
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| 17:14 | <bennabiy> Hmm.
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| 17:15 | <||cw> you can also add ubuntu ppa's as long as the dependent library versions are good
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| 17:15 | and you can add debian repo's to ubuntu as well
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| 17:15 | * ||cw <3 apt/dpkg | |
| 17:16 | <bennabiy> heh, yes
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| 17:17 | I just wondered what their reasoning was behind not having something like ppa / launchpad
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| 17:17 | <||cw> extra work?
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| 17:18 | <bennabiy> heh
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| 17:18 | <||cw> it's hard enough for them just have a stable release ever 4 years
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| 17:18 | <bennabiy> tre
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| 17:18 | true
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| 17:40 | <alkisg> Faith: if it works, write it in the bug report and close it
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| 17:56 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: at this point, primarily lack of time and energy.
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| 17:58 | bennabiy: it's been discussed regularly over the last two years, and it always comes down to "ok, who's going to do the work?"
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| 17:59 | launchpad PPAs are kind of ugly to use on debian... since they're actually built for some other distro entirely. not a big fan of that approach.
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| 18:07 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: exactly. That is why I wondered about a debian friendly one
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| 18:07 | It would be nice to have the sanity checking at least that launchpad does for ppas
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| 18:08 | Isn't launchpad opensource? How much work would it be to set up the same thing, just debianized?
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| 18:08 | launchpad / soyuz (sp_
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| 18:08 | etc
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| 18:09 | <vagrantc> the build infrastructure is... different.
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| 18:10 | <bennabiy> well, I guess if it comes about, it comes about. Till then the machine rolls on
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| 18:10 | <vagrantc> i have at various points considered an autobuilder for LTSP images, but I never really found the time for it.
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| 18:17 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: How long have you been involved in debian related things, more than just a casual user?
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| 18:25 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: funny you should ask ... it's pretty much 10 years as of this month.
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| 18:31 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: wow, that is great
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| 18:32 | I think 10 years ago I was mostly using slackware
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| 18:33 | maybe some redhat
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| 18:35 | <vagrantc> i've been using debian for around 14 years? before that it was primarily slackware based variants and originally redhat
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| 18:35 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 18:36 | I remember sitting in my basement marvelling that the redhat 5.0 disk came with doom installed
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| 18:41 | vagrantc: what do you do for an occupation?
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| 18:41 | if you dont mind me asking
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| 18:45 | <championofcyrodi> i can get doom to run on anything.
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| 18:45 | i love doom
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| 18:46 | <BuckO> @championofcyrodi .. no you can not .. your food blender does not run it :D
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| 18:46 | <championofcyrodi> thinking about configuring an alias on all client images 'deathmatch' to throw the user into a deathmatch arena w/ rocket launchers and username
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| 18:46 | @BuckO: not yet...
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| 18:46 | the idea behind the deathmatch is to resolve disagreements over software integration and development.
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| 18:47 | if you lose the deathmatch, then your wrong. Can't be any worse than most CM practices.
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| 18:53 | * bennabiy doesn't game any more... been over 10 years | |
| 18:55 | <BuckO> @bennabiy .. you must be 75 then :D
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| 19:04 | <bennabiy> 33
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| 19:12 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: i've done system administration, but recently started doing free software related consulting
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| 19:13 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: hence #ltsp?
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| 19:14 | ;)
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| 19:15 | * bennabiy is trying to figure out how to read "free software related consulting" | |
| 19:15 | <bennabiy> free - software related consulting .... or free software - related consulting
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| 19:16 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: consulting in supporting development and use of "Free Software" ?
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| 19:17 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: gotcha :) sorry to put you on the spot like that. I appreciate the work you do
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| 19:17 | I guess you could say I do the other version, free consulting of supporting development and use of free (and not free) software
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| 19:17 | among our communities
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| 19:18 | <vagrantc> my business model so far has been contribute to free software projects for over a decade... and eventually people want to pay me to do something specific
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| 19:34 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: I appreciate that.
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| 20:15 | <gbaman> vagrantc: if I was to copy the LTSP squashfs generated image onto the pi SD card, how would I point the kernel and initrd to it?
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| 20:15 | is that even possible?
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| 20:30 | <gbaman> any ideas vagrantc?
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| 20:31 | <vagrantc> i have lots of ideas, but no idea what ideas you're asking me about :P
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| 20:32 | <gbaman> vagrantc: if I was to copy the LTSP squashfs generated image onto the pi SD card, how would I point the kernel and initrd to it?
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| 20:32 | is that even possible?
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| 20:32 | <vagrantc> should be possible, sure
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| 20:32 | just dd the file to a partition on the card
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| 20:32 | <gbaman> thats the easy part :)
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| 20:32 | <vagrantc> alternately, put it on the fat partition and write a bunch of initramfs hooks to mount it as a loopback device
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| 20:33 | gbaman: root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 init=/sbin/init-ltsp boot=local
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| 20:33 | gbaman: you'll need to tell it what the LTSP server is somehow...
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| 20:33 | <gbaman> that an environmental variable?
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| 20:34 | like SERVER?
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| 20:34 | <vagrantc> yeah
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| 20:34 | or LDM_SERVER ...
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| 20:34 | <gbaman> wasnt far off :)
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| 20:35 | that in theory should make it crazy super fast...
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| 20:35 | <vagrantc> SERVER should work in theory, but there were soe lingering bugs with how that played out ... not sure if they're resolved
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| 20:35 | SD cards are crazy suport slow...
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| 20:35 | super
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| 20:35 | <gbaman> vs 100mbit ethernet?
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| 20:35 | <vagrantc> it's a math problem.
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| 20:36 | <gbaman> think we were hitting 30mb/s with the SD interface?
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| 20:36 | maybe 25..
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| 20:37 | where as ethernet is basically 10mb/s
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| 20:38 | <vagrantc> long as you're doing the tests
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| 20:38 | you do have the maintenance overhead of supporting many images...
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| 20:38 | well, many SD cards...
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| 20:39 | <gbaman> not if they sync
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| 20:39 | a question was brought up about kids brining SD cards home
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| 20:39 | <vagrantc> and now we get into alkisg's ideas about caching files locally automatically
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| 20:39 | <gbaman> still does not fix the user accounts..
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| 20:39 | hmm
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| 20:39 | haha
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| 20:40 | <vagrantc> use a usb card reader to support cards brought from home.
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| 20:41 | your booting SD cards should be glued in place, far as i'm concerned :)
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| 20:41 | <gbaman> question is, could we support caching user accounts that have logged into the pi previously...
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| 20:44 | <vagrantc> the answer is, of course!
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| 20:45 | how much work would it be is a more interesting question...
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| 20:45 | <gbaman> haha
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| 20:47 | <gbaman> it is the taking SD cards home that is the big thing I am pondering right now
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| 20:48 | <gbaman> can we easily bypass LDM?
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| 20:48 | wait, yes we can..
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| 20:49 | ctrl alt f1?
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| 20:49 | <vagrantc> at which point, what's left of LTSP in your setup :P
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| 20:49 | <gbaman> hmm
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| 20:50 | my thinking was we copy the image every so often to SD card, when they are in school connected to main network, always working on most up to date version
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| 20:50 | when they log off, it copies last user to SD card inside the OS stored on there
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| 20:50 | hmm
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| 20:51 | the key thing is kids need to be able to work at home...
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| 20:51 | preferably still use same OS..
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| 20:51 | <vagrantc> you're doing fatclients?
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| 20:51 | <gbaman> yes
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| 20:51 | then take work home
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| 20:51 | work on
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| 20:51 | bring back in and it sync
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| 20:52 | <vagrantc> you'd need to store some random bits on the SD card on the fat or a third partition, since squashfs is a read-only filesystem
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| 20:52 | <gbaman> true
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| 20:52 | and do want to keep it that way
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| 20:52 | <vagrantc> er, not random bits ... but the authentication data.
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| 20:52 | and probably the homedir?
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| 20:53 | <gbaman> could we trick LDM?
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| 20:53 | to act as normal with a local login?
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| 20:53 | <vagrantc> this gets back to the LDM password hash idea that someone was recently working on...
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| 20:54 | <gbaman> ?
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc> you would need to cache the hash of the password locally in order to be able to authenticate when the server is not available
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| 20:58 | <gbaman> ok
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc> normally, with LTSP clients, the client itself doesn't have access to the password hash of the user.
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| 20:58 | so things like screen lockers don't work.
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| 20:59 | so the idea is to hash the password from the user-supplied password during the LDM login, to be able to get local password access to work.
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| 20:59 | this would be needed for your setup as well
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| 21:00 | <gbaman> ok, so basically something needs to go and generate the entered password hash to compare
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| 21:01 | speaking of LDM, any chance you could fix the pci error every time it starts on a pi?
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| 21:01 | <vagrantc> unless it's ok for passwordless logins or something when not connected to the server, but that has some security implications...
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| 21:01 | gbaman: should be fixed in recent LTSP versions
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| 21:01 | <gbaman> not version in Ubuntu repo?
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| 21:02 | <vagrantc> you're running ubuntu on your rpi?
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| 21:02 | <gbaman> no?
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| 21:02 | Ubuntu server
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| 21:02 | ohh
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| 21:02 | ignore that
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| 21:02 | <vagrantc> it's a client-side issue :P
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| 21:02 | <gbaman> *Not one in Raspbian repo
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| 21:03 | which normally isnt far behind..
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| 21:03 | will get version number
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| 21:04 | Version: 2:2.2.11-2
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| 21:04 | Ubuntu Version: 2:2.2.13-1
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| 21:04 | hmm
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| 21:04 | little out of date
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| 21:05 | ahh, Wheezy Version: 2:2.2.11-2
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| 21:05 | which would explain why, main wheezy is behind
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| 21:06 | <vagrantc> wheezy was released about a year ago, frozen long before that.
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| 21:07 | <gbaman> does it not get updates?
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| 21:07 | point releases?
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| 21:07 | <vagrantc> so it's at least a year and a half behind.
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| 21:07 | gbaman: just security updates and major bugs.
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| 21:07 | gbaman: does it actually break, or is it just noisy?
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| 21:08 | <gbaman> so your patch won't get in till jessie?
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| 21:08 | noisy and annoying
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| 21:08 | causes no real issues
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| 21:10 | <vagrantc> not a point release candidate, then
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| 21:10 | <gbaman> so wont get fixed till Jessie?
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| 21:10 | <vagrantc> yeah, it should be fixed in jessie
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| 21:10 | <gbaman> ..
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| 21:11 | <gbaman> sigh..
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| 21:11 | <vagrantc> it's actually in ltsp
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| 21:11 | <gbaman> what is?
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| 21:11 | the bug?
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| 21:11 | <vagrantc> the bug
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| 21:11 | not that that changes the release cycle
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| 21:12 | <gbaman> could use the ppa...
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| 21:13 | <vagrantc> i don't think you'll find a build for raspbian
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| 21:13 | ppa only builds for x86, no?
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| 21:14 | <gbaman> oh..
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| 21:14 | :(
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| 21:14 | assuming I cant just patch it on every client with a single line change somewhere?
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| 21:14 | <vagrantc> if you really need to fix it, fix it in your build script
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| 21:15 | <gbaman> is a tad scary to new users, makes them think something is wrong
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| 21:16 | <vagrantc> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/2426
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| 21:16 | * vagrantc wonders if there are overrides for screen-session.d | |
| 21:17 | <gbaman> i miss github and its nice web interface..
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| 21:18 | <vagrantc> nope, no overrides
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| 21:19 | <gbaman> no idea what you are talking about, but ok
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| 21:19 | <vagrantc> gbaman: you might be able to work around them by setting XSERVER= and X_VIRTUAL_AUTO=
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| 21:21 | depends on how the shell processes it...
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| 21:23 | gbaman: XSERVER=fbdev (assuming that's what the RPI uses) and X_VIRTUAL_AUTO=false in lts.conf might work around it
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| 21:24 | <gbaman> just tried your earlier command btw with armhf.img on the second partition
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| 21:24 | failed complaining it was read only
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| 21:25 | <vagrantc> gbaman: did you specify init=/sbin/init-ltsp ?
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| 21:29 | <gbaman> specifiy?
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| 21:29 | * specify
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| 21:29 | cmdline.txt - http://pastebin.com/7aAjxqKM
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| 21:31 | <vagrantc> hrm.
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| 21:31 | wonder what's complaining about the read-only stuff then
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| 21:32 | maybe init-bottom/ltsp isn't kicking in and setting up the aufs...
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| 21:32 | <gbaman> incoming screenshot
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| 21:33 | or not..
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| 21:33 | it has decided it no longer likes my monitor...
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| 21:34 | <vagrantc> gbaman: so, you did dump the image to /dev/mmcblk0p2? did it successfully mount the image, just complain that it was read-only? does it drop you to a debugging shell?
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| 21:34 | <gbaman> dropped into debugging shell
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| 21:35 | assuming it is /dev/mmcblk0p2
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| 21:35 | second partition
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| 21:35 | <vagrantc> mount | grep /root
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| 21:35 | <gbaman> working on getting screen working..
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| 21:36 | weird...
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| 21:37 | changed some options, now I have hugely massive font...
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| 21:37 | but a screen :)
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| 21:37 | working on it
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| 21:38 | ok, screen fixed
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| 21:39 | ok, partition is right
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| 21:39 | <vagrantc> watch out for the sharks
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| 21:40 | <gbaman> incoming screenshot
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| 21:40 | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1122948/temp/ltsp-8.JPG
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| 21:42 | <vagrantc> gbaman: my bet is it failed to mount the partition
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| 21:42 | except that it did
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| 21:42 | <gbaman> yeah..
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| 21:42 | <vagrantc> gbaman: it says its an ext4 filesystem ... ?
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| 21:43 | <gbaman> thats the data partition
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| 21:43 | then inside that is armhf.img?
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| 21:43 | <vagrantc> gbaman: did you dd if=armhf.img of=/dev/mmcblk0p2 ?
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| 21:43 | <gbaman> no?
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| 21:43 | thought the point was to copy the file onto that partition like the server
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| 21:44 | <vagrantc> in order for this to work the easy way, you'll need to dump the image to a partition
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| 21:44 | <gbaman> dumping..
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| 21:44 | <vagrantc> otherwise you'll have to also implement loopback device mounting
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| 21:45 | in ubuntu, they have loopback mount stuff implemented, but not in debian...
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| 21:46 | <gbaman> back, wrong cable :)
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| 21:48 | vagrantc: have you btw giving Raspi-LTSP a try out yet? Am currently looking for as much feedback as I can get
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| 21:49 | and have made it super simple under Ubuntu 14.04 :)
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| 21:50 | <vagrantc> gbaman: i have not, no.
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| 21:51 | <gbaman> You should give it a go, would be interested in your opinion
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| 21:51 | https://github.com/gbaman/RaspberryPi-LTSP
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| 21:51 | as you can see from the Ubuntu installation bit, is really really simple
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| 21:52 | and requires very little user interaction :)
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| 21:52 | <vagrantc> my experiences of requiring very little interaction roguhly translates into uninstallable
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| 21:53 | <gbaman> well of course I would recommend running it in a VM :)
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| 21:53 | it was designed solely to set up a Raspberry Pi LTSP network
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| 21:53 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 22:02 | <gbaman> but would be interested in what you thought
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| 22:02 | and any suggestions you had
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| 22:02 | seeing as it has mainly been pi community members and 1 school using it
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| 22:03 | would be good to get someone who knows what they are on about to have a look though, seeing as I am sure you could suggest some changes
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| 22:03 | knowing the Linux ecosystem
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| 22:05 | and Ubuntu 14.04 in a vm only takes 15-20 mins to install, then you download and run Raspi-LTSP, it explains what it is going to do and runs a full install. At the end it then asks a few questions for configuration and that is it
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| 22:06 | it also gives you the option not to run a full install and just load the menu
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