IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 6 January 2020   (all times are UTC)

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08:52kvaps has joined IRC (kvaps!2e1c6842@wedos.wedos.net)
08:54
<kvaps>
alkisg: Yay, Simon implemented the --tftp-single-port option for dnsmasq
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08:54
<alkisg>
kvaps: great!!! :)
08:54
He's an awesome man
08:55
<kvaps>
To be LTSP on Kubernetes
08:58
alkisg: /offtop what IRC client do you use?
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09:04
<danboid>
18.04 is still the latest LTSP right?
09:06
When I'm updating our LTSP server and need to reboot it to update the kernel, is there something like the wall command but for X that will pop up a message on all LTSP machines to warn them it is being rebooted?
09:07
The wall command is only useful if every user has a terminal open when it is run, which may not be the case
09:11
<alkisg>
kvaps: pidgin, I've been using it for ages so I want to have the same logs format
09:11
danboid: there's ltsp 5.x and ltsp 19.x
09:12
There's no 18.04 ltsp; that's the ubuntu version
09:12
To pop up a message on the clients, use epoptes
09:12
!epoptes
09:12
<ltspbot`>
epoptes: Epoptes is a computer lab administration and monitoring tool. It works on Ubuntu and Debian based labs with LTSP or non-LTSP servers, thin and fat clients, standalone workstations, NX clients etc. More info: http://www.epoptes.org
09:12
<alkisg>
!forget epoptes
09:12
<ltspbot`>
The operation succeeded.
09:12
<alkisg>
!learn epoptes as Epoptes is a computer lab administration and monitoring tool. It works on Ubuntu and Debian based labs with LTSP or non-LTSP servers, thin and fat clients, standalone workstations, NX clients etc. More info: https://epoptes.org
09:12
<ltspbot`>
The operation succeeded.
09:14
<danboid>
ltsp 5.x and ltsp 19.x?
09:14
<alkisg>
Yes, I rewrote ltsp from scratch this summer, hence the new version
09:14
The testing versions of debian and ubuntu, and the ppa, have the new version
09:14
The rest have the old, 5.x version
09:15
ltsp-info tells you the version if you have the old ltsp
09:15
`ltsp info` if you have the new ltsp, without the dash
09:16
<danboid>
Why the rewrite?
09:16
<alkisg>
The basic reasons were to get rid of LDM and to focus on fat clients
09:17
<danboid>
So it can use any login manager now?
09:17
<alkisg>
Yes
09:17
<danboid>
I thought the old version supported far clients?
09:17
*fat
09:17
<alkisg>
Yes, but it also supported thin (remote xorg)
09:17
Now it only supports remote desktop, not remote xorg/remoteapps/localapps/ltspfs etc
09:18
So much of the old codebase was to be dropped
09:19
<danboid>
Hold on, what do you mean "now it only supports remote desktop"? RDP only? Surely not
09:19
<alkisg>
Yes, only rdp and xfreerdp
09:19
Read some info there: https://github.com/ltsp/community/issues/32
09:19
Of course if one wants he can also use XDMCP
09:19
But ltspfs etc was dropped
09:19
It wouldn't work on wayland anyway
09:20
<danboid>
Oh you mean for thin clients
09:20
<alkisg>
And rdp/x2go have their own remote fs implementations
09:20
Yes, fat clients use remote disk,not remote desktop
09:21
<danboid>
So LTSP 19.x works with Ubuntu and Debian?
09:21
<alkisg>
For the moment, yes, and also in many other .deb based distributions
09:21
But it's a lot more flexible, so in the future I imagine it'll support fedora etc as well
09:22
For example, you can now use an original debian/ubuntu live iso as the ltsp image!
09:22
As the ltsp-client code is now sent over via tftp, it's very small
09:22
So if someone tells me "this doesn't work in kubuntu", I can now test in 1 minute, without even installing kubuntu
09:23
<danboid>
That's v.cool
09:23
<alkisg>
danboid: just wondering, you haven't heard about the new ltsp for 6 months now,
09:23
which means you haven't seen ltsp.org or the mailing lists etc,
09:23
how would ltsp developers contact you? Trying to see how we could reach other users
09:23
<danboid>
I've not been in here or on the website in at least that long yes
09:24
I'll join the mailing list now
09:24
<alkisg>
No
09:24
The mailing list is for the old ltsp
09:24
Announcements for the new ltsp now happen there: https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/issues/1
09:24
So to get mails, one would subscribe in that issue now
09:25
And discussions have moved there: https://github.com/ltsp/community/
09:25
All those links are mentioned in ltsp.org
09:25
!announc
09:25
<ltspbot`>
I do not know about 'announc', but I do know about these similar topics: 'announcements'
09:25
<danboid>
OK, I've subscribed to that GH ticket
09:25
<alkisg>
!announcements
09:25
<ltspbot`>
announcements: To subscribe to LTSP announcements: https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/issues/1
09:27
<kvaps>
alkisg: why not https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/releases?
09:30
<alkisg>
kvaps: announcements can be used for new releases, internationalization, request for comments, funding, changes of sites etc
09:31
kvaps: that URL can be used for notifications? Or just for people to download .zips?
09:32
(when we send announcements, subscribed users get emails)
09:34
<kvaps>
alkisg: the releases page is used to perform new releases, everyone who is subscribed for new releases will get a notification immediately after you perform new release.
09:35
<alkisg>
I can't see where to subscribe for new releases, but anyway that won't be enough, it can't be used e.g. to inform "we're deleting wiki.ltsp.org or ubuntultsp wiki, please backup whatever you need" etc...
09:36
<kvaps>
just for example, this a random project which I'm watching on: https://github.com/goharbor/harbor/releases
09:36
<alkisg>
kvaps: but where's the "subscribe" button there?
09:37
Is it automatic once one joins the stargazers?
09:37
<kvaps>
alkisg: On top of the repo, where is the "give a start" button, there is also "watch"
09:37
<alkisg>
Right, stargazers then
09:37
<kvaps>
you can select "watch for the releases" if you want to
09:38
<alkisg>
Ah, ok
09:38
ty
09:38
It's not appropriate for announcements, but it's an additional method for those that only want to be notified about releases and not all announcements
09:46
<kvaps>
+1, but you have to prepare each release manually by copying changelog there, and pushing release button
09:47
You can also upload binary packages files there, the good point is that releases are always connected with the source code
09:47
<danboid>
alkisg, Last time I asked, no-one had set up a failover LTSP server and you didn't seem entirely sure how it would work. Has anything changed here?
09:47
<alkisg>
I think those releases there happened automatically because of tags in the source code
09:48
danboid: it depends on how you define failover
09:48
If it's just a secondary server that clients can automatically boot from it, it's been doable for ages
09:48
If you mean "automatic process migration", that's not doable in any OS
09:49
<kvaps>
Yes, but they are just a tags right now. Users will get an notification only after you perform the release by the proper way.
09:49
<danboid>
No I meant the firsy
09:49
*first
09:49
<alkisg>
danboid: you can have as many proxydhcp servers as you want in one network
09:49
They'll be automatically be used for load balancing or failover
09:50
kvaps: gotcha. Nah, there's no point there, we don't ship binaries of releases
09:50
<kvaps>
alkisg: It's just fyi
09:50
<alkisg>
Sure, ty
09:51
I used releases in https://github.com/ltsp/binaries/releases, but then I deleted them when we moved ltsp-binaries to the ppa
09:51
danboid: to be more clear, if you use the default ltsp setup, you get automatic failover, but not "good load balancing", as the first proxydhcp server that answers will be prefered
09:52
It's very easy to do load balancing on top of that, though
09:52
!install
09:52
<ltspbot`>
install: To install LTSP: https://ltsp.org/docs/installation/
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09:58
<danboid>
alkisg, Are you saying that if I was to install a new LTSP 19.x server, I wouldn't have to make any changes to our existing DHCP server or LTSP server for clients to boot from it if the existing LTSP server failed?
09:59
<alkisg>
danboid: I'm saying that was the case with ltsp 5 too
09:59
The only problem was that administrators didn't realize that, and didn't use the default proxydhcp setup
09:59
And they were installing isc-dhcp on the ltsp server etc etc
10:00
<danboid>
Great
10:05
I'm presuming this is the installation guide for 19.x https://ltsp.org/docs/installation/
10:07
I don't see anything regarding config of display managers. Surely there is some special config required for fat clients display managers? Is there a recommended display manager?
10:10
<alkisg>
danboid: there's no special config, unless you don't like the default setup
10:10
Ubuntu MATE is the most tested LTSP implementation
10:10
(which comes with lightdm)
10:11
gdm3 has a few issues unrelated to ltsp; e.g. with wayland misbehaving or with it using many screens instead of a single one
10:11
So I'd suggest staying away from it, even if using gnome
10:11
<danboid>
We currently use LDAP with LDM for authentication under LTSP 5.x
10:12
I've not tried LDAP with gdm or LightDM yet
10:12
<highvoltage>
I added our ltsp19 fat client image to our configuration management system (which enables ldap logins) and it worked just fine
10:13
<alkisg>
Great! :)
10:14
<danboid>
When you say "our configuration management system", what do you mean? LTSP config management?
10:15
<highvoltage>
nah the organisation I work for's system
10:15
your existing ldap config/scripts might just work on ltsp19
10:15
<danboid>
Hopefully
11:18
alkisg, epoptes is X only? Is there not a cli version?
11:22
Ah, not sure we can use epoptes right now anyway because we've not used chroot for the LTSP image
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13:06
<alkisg_android>
danboid, you can install epoptes on a headless ltsp server and launch its gui over ssh -X etc
13:06
epoptes.org has documentation about this
13:06
or run it from an ltsp fat client
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15:02
<Talikka>
We have been devising a project / pilot to deliver the Greek LTSP solution for schools etc. to more countries and institutions. "We" are a bunch of mostly Finnish people in Bulgaria, Finland, partly Lithuania and Greece, a little in Albania. We try to develop good plans so that EU could support us. One aim is to utilize old computers. The primary target is initially in southeastern Bulgaria.
15:02
<alkisg>
Hey Talikka, nice to hear that
15:04
<Talikka>
other open-source software that deserve promoting are TIM learning platform (of Finnish origin, see at https://tim.jyu.fi/view/tim/TIM-esittely/en ), Odoo/Dolibarr ERP software, and "open-hospital" hospital management system.
15:05
<alkisg>
Check also epoptes.org, EU has had some articles about that one too
15:07
<Talikka>
we also have solutions for SMEs for example thin clients and PoS systems (LTSP or CentOS Linux) so we are business-oriented also, not only to work with the public sectors of countries with low resources ...
15:09
Briefly: we have some good ideas but not enough workforce or funding... We have been discussing these ideas also on LinkedIn and other platforms. // Oh and one Australian / Romanian experienced companion also hanging around, we met on an FB group "Linux for older computers"
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15:12
<Talikka>
here's a summary in English on page 2 of our initial plans https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mhq6DUkFOw4zckIEJsih_GEXidL0DdAhnmeZphQ-sSk/edit#heading=h.z5gkr6s4cw51 ... thanks I will check epoptes site
15:16
Our senior team member Henry Björklid thinks it should be relatively easy to get EU funding for this kind of project that combines youth employment aims (refurbishing old, donated computers, learning and installing Linux), social inequality alleviation, good software and environment policy, etc... but it is difficult to find a suitable person to act as a project manager and fill in the papers, discuss with the
15:16
authorities, etc. ... until perhaps in late summer 2020 the funding would come and a good salary would be possible
15:26
<alkisg>
Talikka: is there some way this channel can help you? Are you in search for such a person, to become the project manager?
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18:02
<Talikka>
Yes, there might be. I am probably not suitable for a project manager and, though I have some good contacts, I currently don't know of any, either. We have had a group at https://www.linkedin.com/groups/13657630/ but we have since moved to other platforms.
18:03
(Thanks and sorry for my popping-out)
18:03
<alkisg>
Talikka: you might want to file a community issue for this: https://github.com/ltsp/community/issues
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19:22
<Talikka>
Thanks for the hint, that sounds good.
19:35
Does somebody know if there is some general-purpose document or a research paper about delivering Linux success stories (and other small reports on FOSS project outcomes in public sector organizations? Many know of the results in Germany, Spain, etc but I wonder if there is a differently constructed report like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters
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19:38
<Talikka>
I guess for most grant or funding applications etc. such a document (or a curated list of other FOSS products adopters) might be a good appendix - to explain potential benefits and possible pitfalls and how to avoid them.
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21:51
<eu^modemcable246>
Hello
21:51
I'm not able to connect on my Ubuntu OS
21:51
with PXE
21:51
Someone can help me
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