IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 9 December 2016   (all times are UTC)

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03:45
<nek>
hi
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03:46
<sbalneav>
Hello
03:46
<Guest45623>
Hi sbalneav
03:47
Can I ask about my trouble here?
03:47
<sbalneav>
Yes
03:48
<Guest45623>
Now I try to construct LTSP Server on Ubuntu 16.04
03:48
And I could install ltsp-server.
03:49
But I had the error when "ltsp-build-client" for fat client was done.
03:49
<sbalneav>
What was the error
03:50
<Guest45623>
The hash sum of some packages mismatch and stopped...
03:50
I can find these packages on http://archive.ubuntu.com/.....
03:50
<sbalneav>
Try rebuilding it. Sounds like some packages may have updated on the server while you were building.
03:51
<Guest45623>
Ok. I would!
03:52
Now I run. Until now, I tried to rebuild over 5 times on Ubuntu Desktop 16.04 and over 3 times on Ubuntu Server 16.04....
03:55
Usually, can people build fat client on ubuntu 16.04 without errors ?]
03:56
<sbalneav>
I use debian personally, but I'd assume so
03:59
<Guest45623>
I don't have any knowledge about the relation between server and client. If use debian, what version of client will be ?
04:01
<sbalneav>
debian
04:01
Jessie. That's what I use
04:02
<Guest45623>
Oh, ...ltsp-build-client stopped... Perhaps, around ldm-ubuntu-theme. For setting ldm-ubuntu-theme(2:2.0.47), ltsp-build-client tried to read package list, and read information about dependency and failed to find packeges...
04:03
Is server debian Jessi? So what is client? Ubuntu? Ubuntu mate?
04:03
<sbalneav>
Jessie
04:03
Both the server and client are debian jessie
04:03
<Guest45623>
Oh, both
04:04
Ok, I understood... Is there way to use ubuntu 16.04 as client...?
04:05
<sbalneav>
Not that I'm aware of.
04:05
Wait around for alkisg to show. He's more knowledgable of ubuntu
04:06
<Guest45623>
Yes, thank for your kind! I will wait and keep searching :)
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14:05
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: Hey hey
14:06
You still with alkisg? Or heading home?
14:15
<jammcq>
Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:17
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: roughly 24 more hours in alkisg's good care.
14:18
jammcq: heya!
14:18
we actually set up an LTSP lab in a small mountain village this morning, so didn't have much time to test
14:18
sbalneav: test ltsp-pam improvements
14:18
really nice to see LTSP in real-world use!
14:19
<jammcq>
vagrantc: HEY !
14:19
what city are you guys in?
14:19
<vagrantc>
ionnina now
14:19
oops, misspelled
14:20
<jammcq>
ok... what country ? :)
14:20* vagrantc pulls the proper spelling from debian/changelog
14:20
<vagrantc>
Ιωάννινα
14:20
as the saying goes, looks greek to me.
14:20
<jammcq>
in greece ?
14:21
<vagrantc>
i guess that's only one of the proper spellings
14:21
jammcq: nai!
14:21
(a.k.a. yes)
14:21
<jammcq>
found it on google maps
14:21
looks cool
14:22
<vagrantc>
it has been a wonderful visit, and we've made some good progress on the ltsp PAM integration
14:22
mostly sbalneav writing stuff, and alkisg and I testing
14:23
sbalneav: what's your august looking like? maybe we could do a hackfest in montreal piggy-backing on debconf :)
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14:32* vagrantc tests the latest and greatest ltsp-pam
14:33
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: ooh, ooh! i was able to log into mate twice in a row!
14:34
no luck on the console login though ...
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15:04* alkisg tries debuild'ing ltsp-pam...
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15:12
<alkisg>
vagrantc: if [ "$PAM_TYPE" = "close_session" ]; then
15:12
sleep 10
15:12
Does that sleep 10 at that point, give you a 10 sec console?
15:12
I was able to login and work fine, and then after 10 sec it exited
15:13
sbalneav: I'm having the same issue as vagrantc, i.e. my console logins immediately exit
15:13
And additionally the user is not removed from extrausers on logout
15:15
Hmmm actually that "sleep" there, increases the lightdm login time, not the logout time
15:15
Sounds like "close_session" is called at the wrong time?!
15:19
<sbalneav>
Hmm, dunno, I'll dig into it today, see if I can get terminal logins working.
15:19
back, was out for a bit.
15:20
The cleanup code on close_session should now be shutting down any stray procs
15:25
<alkisg>
Ah, maybe it's called for the lightdm user... let me check
15:27
sbalneav: I see pam-session being called for the lightdm user ==> close_session,
15:27
and then for the "administrator" user ==> open session
15:27
Maybe we want to ignore all lightdm events?
15:28
<sbalneav>
This is in the console?
15:28
<alkisg>
No I was trying from lightdm currently, now I'll try from the console
15:29
So, logging in from the console immediately calls pam-session open_session and pam-session close_session
15:29
<sbalneav>
The session stuff's contingent on the socket existing. For the lightdm user, there'll be no socket
15:30
Right, why, I don't know.
15:30
<alkisg>
If I put a "sleep 10" in close_session, then I can work in the console just fine for 10 seconds
15:30
<sbalneav>
For a console login, do we want the ssh tunnel to start, and the sshfs homedir to mount?
15:30
<alkisg>
Does the pam-session script need to return 0?
15:31
<sbalneav>
Or do we just want to have the user logged into an empty directory?
15:31
<alkisg>
I think I would do it like this: if the user account exists, don't fetch it from the server (e.g. ldap)
15:31
if the home dir exists, don't use sshfs
15:31
else => do those
15:31
That should allow multiple console logins etc too
15:32
<sbalneav>
Well, we always remove the homedir on exist
15:32
*exit
15:32
<alkisg>
Currently we pkill everything
15:32
<sbalneav>
correct.
15:32
<alkisg>
If we see that killing systemd only kills the cgroup processes,
15:33
then we can check after killing systemd if there are other processes of that same user
15:33
<sbalneav>
I've added in further cleanup code.
15:33
It's already there now.
15:33
<alkisg>
(or ask logind directly if there's another session for that user),
15:33
so, if he's logged in another time, we don't want to unmount it
15:33
<sbalneav>
Not sure how to ask logind such things :
15:34
<alkisg>
loginctl --help will tell us
15:34
There's also loginctl kill-session, if we prefer it to pkill
15:36
<vagrantc>
that sounds more robust, if implementation specific
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15:36
<alkisg>
Ideally we don't want to kill anything; we only want pam or systemd to notify us when a session has closed
15:39
<sbalneav>
ok
15:39
<alkisg>
sbalneav: could you give us a small description of which parts run at which point? Like, user authenticates in lightdm => ssh.py gets called as root with that param ==> session starts etc etc?
15:39
And which of them run as root, and which as the user?
15:40
<sbalneav>
User enters username
15:40
pam_open is called
15:40
<alkisg>
Ah, that's before he enters the password?!
15:40
<sbalneav>
pam prompts for "Password"
15:40
Correct
15:40
PAM asks for the password
15:40
If you look in the ssh.py code, you'll see under "password" authentication where it asks for it.
15:41
pam recieves password
15:41
<alkisg>
That runs as root or as lightdm?
15:41
<sbalneav>
We're root right now, yes
15:41
<alkisg>
ok
15:41
<sbalneav>
pam does whatever necessary to check password is ok
15:41
password's fine, we're finished with auth
15:41
now we call pam_acct_mgmt
15:42
whatever acct mgmt stuff needs to happen goes on (usually nothing)
15:42
That closes
15:42
open_session is called.
15:42
Whatever stuff's in the open session happens (we're still root)
15:42
open_session finishes.
15:43
lightdm DROPS PRIVS. we're now the user
15:43
whatever lightdm xsession is going on runs.
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15:43
<sbalneav>
lightdm xsession terminates (user selects SYstem->Logout>
15:43
pam close_session is now called AS THE USER
15:44
that finishes
15:44
pam_close is called
15:44
go back to the top
15:44
<alkisg>
pam_close runs as root?
15:44
<sbalneav>
The problem that's always present is:
15:44
No, pam_close runs as user.
15:44
auth, and open_session run as root
15:44
<alkisg>
So at what point do we have the rights to remove the home dir?
15:44
<sbalneav>
close_session runs as user
15:45
You can do it in close session, but you have to do it AS THE USER
15:45
You never get root back
15:45
<alkisg>
But the user cannot remove his own home dir...
15:45
Hmm...
15:45
<sbalneav>
That's the problem.
15:45
That's why we have to make sure the user owns his or her home dir, since they cannot remove it if it's root owned
15:46
that's also why we can't clean up nss-extrausers
15:46
<alkisg>
If that fails, we could have some root process listening for logout signals, and doing the "right" thing for them...
15:46
<sbalneav>
once you drop the privs, they're gone and you never get them back
15:47
The *easy* solution would be to just have some setuid program that does LTSP specific cleanup. But distros are VERY hinky about letting setuid binaries into the filesystem
15:47
<alkisg>
We can keep some script running as root, listening for signals from its childs...
15:48
<sbalneav>
That complicates things. And for the moment, I don't think we'll need it.
15:48
<alkisg>
It shouldn't require more than 10-20 lines of code to implement that wrapper... without counting the cleanup code
15:48
That could also clean up extrausers
15:48
<sbalneav>
What I need to do is write the code necessary to MERGE new data into extrausers, and not just overwrite
15:49
<alkisg>
I think I've already done that in the past in x01-localapps
15:49
<sbalneav>
then we wouldn't need to clean up; extrausers would just cleanly grow during the course of multiple people logging in and out.
15:49
<alkisg>
But is that a wise thing to do?
15:49
A user that is removed from the server, will never get removed from the client's lightdm list
15:49
<sbalneav>
I can't see why it wouldn't be: take my scenario...
15:50
Yes, but if it's removed from the server, it can't AUTHENTICATE anymore
15:50
Since the authentication doesn't happen with the local extrausers stuff, only from the remote ssh
15:50
<alkisg>
True, it wouldn't be a security risk, just an annoying GUI thing
15:51
<sbalneav>
It shouldn't even be annoying gui wise.
15:51
Lets say user bob, uid 1000 logs in to a thin client, and then logs out
15:51
<alkisg>
OK, at that point lightdm keeps him as the preselected user
15:51
<sbalneav>
now on the server, we delete bob, and add bill, uid 1000
15:51
ah, well, that's a function of the GREETER.
15:51
<alkisg>
Yup
15:52
Sorry, should have said lightdm-greeter instead of just lightdm
15:52
<sbalneav>
remember, I want us to eventually switch to using lightdm-webkit-greeter
15:52
<alkisg>
Ideally, don't we want to support any greeter?
15:52
<sbalneav>
We do, but gtk-greeter doesn't support password aging.
15:53
<alkisg>
sry, phone, brb...
15:53
<sbalneav>
np
15:54
in your scenario, true, gtk-greeter would keep "bob" as the default user, but but that would be the case if bob and bill both did exist anyway, so... it's not really a big issue, as far as I can see.
15:54
and as soon as bill logs in, if we're properly merging the extrausers files, bob will simply get replaced at that point.
15:54
since they both have uid 1000
15:55
since there's no local password stored, I don't see that it's a security problem.
15:57
btw, if I remove the "ltsp" parameter from the common-auth ssh.py line, I can log in to the console. So it's something with the code that launches the tunnel that's causing the console hang.
15:57
That narrows it down... :D
15:57
<vagrantc>
huh
15:58
why would launching the tunnel work for lightdm but not for getty login?
15:58
<sbalneav>
*shrug*, I guess I'll figure it out :D
15:59
there's a lot of forking and execing in there. chances are I've got something ever-so-slightly wrong.
16:00
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: removing "ltsp" from the auth line didn't work for m
16:00
me
16:01
<sbalneav>
hmm
16:01
odd
16:01
worked for me
16:01* vagrantc moves on to using the sshauth with sshd :)
16:01
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: did you have the user logged in via lightdm at the same time?
16:01
<sbalneav>
No
16:02
a dual login like that's gonna fail for sure
16:02
<vagrantc>
well, it has it's issues
16:02
but actually works
16:02
until one of them logs out
16:02
<sbalneav>
right
16:02
since we just kill everyone's processes with our userid
16:03
wonder if loginctl can give us a list of what a particular sessions' pids are.
16:03
<vagrantc>
thre's got to be a way to only kill a particular tree of processes
16:03
<sbalneav>
Oh, I'm sure.
16:04
<alkisg>
back, reading...
16:07
<sbalneav>
brb, coffee
16:10
<alkisg>
sbalneav: maybe it has something to do about closing stdio descriptors?
16:16
<sbalneav>
alkisg: That's.... a possibility
16:17
Anyway, I know both your time there is fleeting, but I think we've made some really good progress
16:18
We've kind of gone from "a bunch of ideas and dreams" to "a mostly working implementation"
16:19
So, I'm planning on setting up a server here to be my new testbed
16:20
My question is: what's the *preferred* way now, if we're getting rid of ltsp-build-client (or trying to) to do ltsp? I've never done the ltsp-pnp stuff. How do you get started with that?
16:20
<alkisg>
!ltsp-pnp
16:20
<ltsp>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
16:20
<alkisg>
I think I kept this up to date even for 16.04
16:21
Ah, sorry, some ubuntu specific bits there
16:21
vagrantc has one for debian as well, I dunno if it's up to date...
16:21
If you have a working ltsp setup, you rm -rf /opt/ltsp, and run ltsp-update-image -c /
16:21
That should mostly do it...
16:22
The rest of the parts are for setting up proxydhcp instead of normal dhcp etc, you don't really need to switch to those
16:29
<sbalneav>
ok
16:29
I'll try setting something up
16:35
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: https://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto has a description using the LTSP-PNP method
16:36
mgith be slightly out of date ...
16:36
some of the steps are no longer necessary with Debian stretch or jessie-backports
16:37
and some of them you can omit (e.g. DHCP if you have that on your own)
16:38
the main part is "ltsp-update-image --cleanup /"
16:47
<alkisg>
if not os.path.exists(pamh.env[SOCKET]):
16:47
debug('Control socket did not start')
16:47
# return pamh.PAM_AUTH_ERR
16:47
I commented out that line
16:47
Then I tried putting a "return" right above the forking code
16:47
And console logins work
16:48
Then I moved the "return" right below the forking code
16:48
And console logins fail
16:48
I'm guessing that something's going wrong at the forks...
16:55
A single fork works, a double fork causes issues
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19:56
<Statler>
alkisg, do you have upgraded nbd-client?
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20:14
<Statler>
alkisg, I have found it!
20:14
strace on the nbd-server shows the problem
20:15
Kernerl 4.8 or the nbd-client strips the first / from the path of the nbd-export-name
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20:22
<alkisg_web>
Statler, yup, known issue and bug report filed for that
20:24
Statler, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=846998
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