IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 13 July 2008   (all times are UTC)

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09:41
<warren>
anyone here for the k12linux meeting?
09:45
<petre>
well, I'm here, but I just got back from vacation late last night, so I've been out of the loop for a while
09:46
haven't gotten to catching up on my k12linux mail yet
09:46
anything new to report?
09:46
<beakburke>
ME
09:46
also out of the loop
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09:49
<warren>
aside from the bug fixes in ltsp-5.1.11
09:49
I'm pretty close to a RHEL5-server based LTSP5
09:49
except my attempts to make the chroot installer work are going poorly
09:49
<beakburke>
I just remembered that I have a machine I couldn't get FC 9 final to install on, it would crash, so I hadn't been able to do any work on it.
09:49
<warren>
RHEL5 is missing several pieces, or too old version.
09:50
<beakburke>
Maybe it's just better to just aim for RHEL 6 when that is due out.
09:50
?
09:50
<warren>
I'm thinking to just make a tarball containing the /opt/ltsp/i386 of Fedora 9
09:50
<beakburke>
Leave RHEL 5 on LTSP 4.2
09:50
<warren>
so yes, focus on Fedora LTSP for RHEL6
09:50
<petre>
when is RHEL6 due?
09:50
<warren>
sorry, I don't know
09:51
<rjune_>
doesn't RH do releases on roughly 18 month schedule for el?
09:51
<petre>
that's what I was thinking
09:52
<warren>
history might show that
09:52
<beakburke>
If we get it into RHEL 6 then the RHEL 5 people can just upgrade
09:52
<warren>
anyhow, I guess RHEL5-based server is almost done with these ugly hacks
09:52
Next I want to move a few of the ltsp-build-client plugins into the chroot.
09:53
so they can run in a package upgrade within the chroot
09:53
as %post of ltsp-client or something
09:53
After that, I can probably go ahead with the planned Live Server idea
09:53
and there are a few core functioality pieces like local apps planned for the hackfest in 2 weeks
09:53
<petre>
I like the live server idea, especially running from usb stick
09:54
<warren>
petre: for demos that's nice, but it is also useful in installing both server and client at the same time onto a real machine in one step.
09:54
<cyberorg>
warren, calling rpm from %post from rpm? doesnt work
09:54
<warren>
cyberorg: no
09:55
cyberorg: if you are doing an upgrade within the chroot, it can run in %post scripts to setup stuff in the chroot
09:55
cyberorg: currently I have that stuff only as ltsp-build-client plugins, which is problematic if I need something changed in an update in the chroot later.
09:56
<cyberorg>
i have found rebuilding chroot/image with update installation source much faster
09:56
<warren>
yeah, that is another way
09:56
<cyberorg>
that way i dont have to worry about keeping rpm and all the packagement deps inside chroot
09:57
<warren>
Aside from this, we seem to have a lot of complaints about ltsp-build-client and the documentation.
09:57
ltsp-build-client in my view cannot be usable for newbies until it grows some way to choose an interface to add to the bridge.
09:58
meaning a GUI menu or something
09:58
because you cannot simply guess
09:58
documentation just needs more work
09:58
btw does anyone use teachertool or similar?
09:58
<cyberorg>
warren, i've used a config file that user can input stuff then run ltsp-build-client equivalent - kiwi-ltsp-setup
09:59
<warren>
oops
09:59
ltsp-server-setup I mean
09:59
ltsp-build-client is fine
09:59
err..
09:59
ltsp-server-initialize
10:00
any other thoughts for this meeting? otherwise I'm going back to guitar practice.
10:00
<petre>
what about teachertool? (one of my favorite pieces of k12ltsp)
10:00
<cyberorg>
heh i've just added those two scripts as wrapper to kiwi-ltsp-setup -l and kiwi-ltsp-setup -c
10:00
<warren>
petre: which one did you use?
10:00
<cyberorg>
warren, make it easy for users to implement it, even without having to read a lot of documentations
10:01
<warren>
petre: I've heard of 3 tools that do similar things. teachertool, fl_teachertool and something else.
10:01
<petre>
fl_teachertool, robark's latest
10:01
teachertool is dead, long ago
10:01
<warren>
petre: perhaps could you talk with him to get him to port to LTSP5?
10:02
<petre>
rob used the name fl_teachertool to avoid confusion
10:02
<cyberorg>
if you have mono extract this and run "mono Easy-LTSP.exe"
10:02
http://forgeftp.novell.com/kiwi-ltsp/easy-ltsp.tar.bz2
10:02
<petre>
sure, I'll check with him
10:02
<cyberorg>
our google SOC project
10:02
<beakburke>
The easiest way to make it easy for the users is to roll it into the installer
10:02
<warren>
beakburke: the live server install might be the easiest then
10:03
<beakburke>
yup
10:03
<petre>
fl_teachertool's focus is giving the teacher the ability to conrtrol the users
10:03
<warren>
beakburke: leaving only "which interface to add to the bridge?" is the only question to ask the user
10:03
<beakburke>
well, it's the closest to the old K12LTSP model
10:03
<warren>
beakburke: but that is almost exactly the same as today
10:03
<cyberorg>
here is how it looks now http://www.luckylemon.de/?page_id=26
10:03
<warren>
cyberorg: I will not run any mono thing. I'm sorry.
10:04
<petre>
why no mono?
10:04
<beakburke>
Sorry I'm not much help at the moment, I have to get my test server up and running again somehow
10:05
<cyberorg>
petre, mono is evil clone by novell of m$ .net ;)
10:05
<petre>
oh, I know what it is, I was just interested in warren's particular position on it
10:05
<warren>
several reasons including 1) Microsoft repeatedly threatens to sue people for patents in mono. 2) Novell sold out and betrayed the community in their patent deal with Microsoft. 3) Novell violates their own license by neglecting to build parts of mono from source.
10:06
<beakburke>
it's a poison pill really
10:06
unless you want to cut a deal with MS
10:06
<warren>
#3 was a huge pain for us when we realized we were building mono from some binary blobs because Novell gave up on building from source as a shortcut. We put a TON of work into re-boot strapping mono in order to avoid removing it entirely.
10:07
<beakburke>
I understand using it as a practical matter, when you HAVE to use .NET for some reason, but why take that risk if you don't have to?
10:08
<petre>
then what I'm really wondering is why easy-ltsp was written using mono
10:08
<warren>
I dunno, but I might consider rewriting it in pygtk later
10:09
<petre>
I don't think fl_teachertool is the place for adding the ltsp bridge
10:09
<warren>
yeah, I'm a bit confused by that suggestion
10:09
<petre>
fl_tt is intended to be an easy tool for teachers to use
10:09
<cyberorg>
beakburke, it was most practical thing to do for the student, he chose this to implement something of this scale in so little time
10:09
<warren>
perhaps in the short-term, we need a tiny GUI app that lets someone graphically choose an interface to add to the bridge.
10:10
<petre>
and having to make a decision about bridging will be way beyond most of them, and it's not really related
10:10
<warren>
but it is crucial
10:10
you can't run a server without attaching an interface to the bridge
10:10
<petre>
yes, I think a separate app may be the least distasteful choice atm
10:11
<cyberorg>
warren, is that just for virtual server ?
10:11
<warren>
if we have time, that app could run a dhcp client on all interfaces to at least warn you "DHCP server detected on this interface. Probably not a good idea to serve here!"
10:11
cyberorg: no.
10:11
cyberorg: LTSP on Fedora serves to a bridge by default
10:12
cyberorg: so all you need to do to serve to a real network is attach an interface to that bridge
10:12
<cyberorg>
why not just the interface facing towards internal network?
10:12
<petre>
what's the provision for a single-nic server? or isn't there one?
10:12
<warren>
cyberorg: because it is not clear which is the internal netowrk
10:13
<petre>
cyberorg: how does one tell, programmatically, which is the internal network?
10:13
<warren>
petre: single nic server is so undesirable that the documentation should tell them they need to reconfigure stuff manually if they want to use it that way.
10:13
<cyberorg>
warren, the one without default route if there are two, for one it can be default, if there are more than two user can specify manually
10:14
<petre>
undesirable by who? ;-)
10:14
<warren>
petre: single nic server means there is no internet?
10:14
<petre>
no, means a separate gateway other than ltsp server
10:14
<cyberorg>
warren, there can be another internet gateway in the network
10:14
<petre>
mixed environment, thins and fat clients
10:15
<warren>
petre: DHCP wont interfere with each other on that network?
10:15
<beakburke>
but then you have much with the DHCP setting on the boot server
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10:15
<warren>
single NIC definitely requires manual configuration beyond the scope of any easy tool
10:16
documentation can talk about things you need to do
10:16
<petre>
I think that would be okay, having dual-nic as default config
10:16
and we'll just document how to do single-nic
10:17
<warren>
yeah
10:17
<petre>
I just keep running into cases where single nic makes more sense, so I think it should at least be available
10:18
<cyberorg>
my laptop is single nic ltsp server demo ;)
10:18
<warren>
the software doesn't disallow you from diong it
10:18
but single nic is by nature more complicated
10:18
and there is no one way to configure it
10:19
<cyberorg>
ip-easy-ltsp-config.py is a python script that tells you which is the internal nic and it s current config
10:20
<petre>
cyberorg: how does it determine which is the internal nic?
10:20
<cyberorg>
petre, one without default route
10:20
the script is in the easy-ltsp tarball
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10:22
<cyberorg>
evil mono binary tarball :)
10:25
<warren>
petre: could you talk to robark about finally porting fl_teachertool?
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10:26
<petre>
to LTSP 5, right? yes, I'll check with him.
10:27
I know he was laying off coding for a while because of repetitve stress problems a while back
10:27
not sure what the status is otherwise. will check and update list
10:30
<rjune_>
heh
10:32
<beakburke>
you know, doing a one nic setups should really only be done by someone that controls the whole network anyway, and understands what they are doing. That's why 2 nic was the default on the old K12LTSP. So I don't see the harm in making it two nic by default and just documenting how to do it with one nic if you really wanted to.
10:35
<petre>
beakburke: I agree
10:35
<beakburke>
make the easy simple and the difficult possible
10:35
:d
10:36
:D
10:46
<warren>
ok
10:46
i'm posting minutes
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13:10
<petre>
warren: ping
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13:57
<warren>
petre: pong
13:59
<Q-FUNK>
is (tm) Atari corp.
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14:00
<reever>
hi there !
14:01
<petre>
I talked to robark and he said he's nearly got the next version of fl_teachertool ready for ltsp 5 on fedora 9
14:01
<reever>
does anyone here have knowledge about an EIZO eClient 620L to use with LTSP
14:01
?
14:02
its a 15" Display with RTL8110 NIC + RS232C + USB + Sound
14:02
<Q-FUNK>
http://www.eizo.com/support/discontinued/wbt/620l.asp
14:02
<reever>
with Geode Processor
14:02
<Q-FUNK>
according to this, it doesn't have PXE or Etherbeoot
14:03
<reever>
don't think so
14:03
is there a way to solve it twith gpxe
14:03
?
14:04
<Q-FUNK>
according to the specs, this would probably have a GX1 or an SC
14:04
<reever>
yes this it Q-FUNK
14:04
<petre>
he said he installed f9 last night but the update you mention in your 7/10 email to the list wasn't in the yum repo, said he's waiting for that
14:05
the next fl_teachertool sounds REALLY cool, scalable thunmnails of the desktops, and so on.
14:05
<reever>
the problem is
14:05
i've lost the CF-Card with the bootsoft
14:05
ok i can download a version from the hp
14:06
but i think there can be a way to make a gpxe on the Cf-Card
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14:09
<Q-FUNK>
reever: maybe. if that terminal has a normal BIOS, it should be possible to load the gPXE blob from CF
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14:11
<reever>
thx Q-Funk i'll trie & look on the gpxe hp
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