IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 5 June 2007   (all times are UTC)

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01:32
<oldwolf>
hi all, where can i check the news for ltsp development progress?
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02:26
<anton>
Does anyone know if it is possible to use the modem in the thin workstation?
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03:57
<daya>
vagrantc, I got out of freq.in client , H:93.5Hhz
03:57
and V:87HZ
03:59
vanya, when I press ctrl + or - it gets fine, but every time I have to do it,
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04:37
<Envite>
Hello sll from Spain
04:37
Hola a todos desde España
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05:53
<cliebow>
envite:want to coach me learning spanish 9~)
05:54
<Envite>
hehehehehe
05:54
of course :)
05:55
<cliebow>
i'm gonna get some stuff to work with first..
05:56
<Envite>
small children books?
05:57
<daya>
ogra, I am having resolution problem in client, "Out of frequency H:93.5 Khz, V:87HZ
05:58
ogra, what should I do , I have edited lts.conf and specify X_MODE_0=1024x768 still it doesn't work,
05:58
ogra, any suggestion,
06:01
<Envite>
daya: do not try that
06:01
use X_VERTREFRESH and X_HORZSYNC
06:01
<daya>
Envite, is that dangerous,
06:02
<Envite>
no
06:02
<daya>
Envite, how to guess in which value it works ,
06:02
<Envite>
they are frequency ranges
06:03
try something smaller than 93.5 and 87
06:03
<daya>
Envite, lets me check,
06:04
ls
06:08
<Envite>
mine are:
06:08
X_VERTREFRESH="50-120"
06:08
X_HORZSYNC="30-54"
06:10
<daya>
in others monitor it is working fine, in this DIGICOM monitor only it is paining me,
06:12
<cliebow>
Envite:perhaps..maybe sit in on something aat school too.
06:14
<Envite>
daya, do not worry
06:14
each monitor model has its own frequency limits
06:14
<daya>
Envite, I have tried these now it directly goes to text mode login,
06:14
<Envite>
LTSP defaults to common frequencies, but they're just common, not universal
06:15
<daya>
Envite, how to find the frequency limit of a monitor,
06:15
Envite, yes manual may help me,
06:16
<Envite>
your monitor said values that are beyond limits
06:17
try from those values down
06:17
<cliebow>
Google is your friend
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06:23
<daya>
Envite, its not working yes, when I press ctrl+ and ctrl - it somewhat came to login prompt
06:23
Envite, but it is not in complete view,
06:24
<Envite>
remove the X_MODE_0 line
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06:26
<daya>
I have already removed it,
06:27
<Envite>
well, it is then beyond my help now
06:27
<daya>
Envite, : D
06:27
<Envite>
I'm sorry I can't help more
06:28
<ogra>
daya, the monitor doesnt properly report its resolutions (its likely very old)
06:28
<daya>
its all right, I will again hit and trail some values,
06:28
<ogra>
try google to find the right values for hsync and verrefresh
06:28
*vert
06:28
<daya>
ogra, may be it seems to be new but the old company ,
06:28
digicom
06:30
<ogra>
well, the X only uses the resolution ddcprobe/xresprobe tell it ... i've only seen it not working on very old tube monitors yet
06:30
s/the//
06:32
you said you got a screen already? its just off ? then log in and run xvidtune, adjust the picture and note down the values for hsync vertrefresh
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06:43
<daya>
ogra, hsync ramge 30 -55 and vsync 50 - 120, i putted in lts.conf , but same problem, this time i can't login even
06:43
I press ctrl+ or _
06:43
i
06:43
-,
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06:44
<daya>
is vsync or X_VERTREFRESH is same
06:44
<ogra>
then these values are wrong
06:44
to high i guess
06:46
did you try google ?
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06:47
<aze>
hi all
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07:13
<daya>
ogra, yes I found in the monitor manual,
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07:15
<daya>
but it is not working,
07:16
Horizontal frequency 30-56KHz, Field Frequency 50-120 Hz (automatic)
07:23
<Envite>
put those values in the lts.conf
07:24
but better try 31-54 and 55-90 too
07:24
since these are more restrictive
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07:38
<daya>
Envite, ogra its not working yet, too furstated with this digicom monitor
07:38
<crashover>
hello guys...its all right??
07:38
my problem with nx was resolved....
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07:39
<Envite>
daya: buf
07:39
<crashover>
the problem was in keys of authentication of nx....the first authentication it's a ssh authentication, that I see...
07:39
thank you for all
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08:19
<ogra>
vagrantc, !
08:19
vagrantc, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/24211/ what do you think about that one ?
08:19
<vagrantc>
ogra: hmmm?
08:20* ogra had some boring trainrides on the weekend and was playing with ideas
08:21
<vagrantc>
it's worth playing with
08:21
<ogra>
yeah
08:21
<vagrantc>
might also just be able to export the squashfs over NFS and still gain some speed
08:21
<ogra>
we use nbd anyway already
08:21
thats still crashy i heard
08:21
<vagrantc>
more hassle to do quick tweaks, though...
08:22
what's still crashy?
08:22
<ogra>
yeah, i think i would keep the chroot around for maintenance and create the squash image inside /opt/ltsp/$arch
08:22
squashfs over nfs
08:22
<vagrantc>
having to regenerate the squashfs to make any changes to the chroot kind of sucks ... but if it's significantly faster and reduces network traffic ...
08:23
squashfs over NFS is unstable ? hmmm...
08:23
<ogra>
that would grow the /opt/ltsp/$arch dir by 150M and you still could do easy maintenance
08:23
<vagrantc>
also, should play with unionfs over NFS, too. i've seen it working. seemed stable.
08:24
<ogra>
well, we have the code already for squashfs over nfs somewhere
08:24
<vagrantc>
ogra: well, easy becomes: make tweaks ; regenerate squashfs
08:24
<ogra>
mdz implemented that first
08:24
<vagrantc>
rather than simply make tweaks
08:24
<ogra>
but that was oopsing from time to time
08:24
<vagrantc>
ogra: yeah i know.
08:24
<ogra>
and when i tried pre edgy it want better
08:24
*wasnt
08:25
<vagrantc>
we'll have to look at what debian-live does ... i know they pass some special options to unionfs
08:25
<ogra>
thats fine ... if it wors then
08:25
hmm
08:25
actually i dont think it was squashfs that was crashy, right ...
08:25
it was unionfs
08:26
<vagrantc>
maybe unionfs on squashfs on NFS would be fine :)
08:26
or nbd
08:26
<ogra>
yeah
08:26
<vagrantc>
some people even like samba (cifs?)
08:26
<ogra>
well, i dont really care if nfs or nbd lies below, but it seemed like a valid way to solve any possible nfs probs :)
08:27
<vagrantc>
we could even do plain nbd without squashfs
08:27
we have no shortage of options
08:27
<ogra>
right
08:27
well, we have time constraints :)
08:28
<vagrantc>
i replied to mario regarding tcos today ... but pkg-ltsp-devel is postponing my messages again.
08:28* ogra points to his release schedule :)
08:28
<ogra>
well, he should just find a DD to take care
08:28
<vagrantc>
yeah, well. there's always next release
08:28
ogra: he's already found a sponsor to upload to debian
08:29
<ogra>
i'm ore happy if it get to debian first ... so i dont have to care, t'll get autosynced
08:29
<vagrantc>
it's sitting in NEW
08:29
<ogra>
gah
08:29* ogra pokes his keyboard
08:29
<vagrantc>
if svn is any example, though, i suspect the ftp-masters will reject on improper copyrights
08:29
the svn of tcos, that is
08:29
<ogra>
well, it will surely take its time until the packging is right
08:30* ogra hates that better/worse comaprison this guy is doing all the time ... obvoiusly without knowing ltsp5
08:31
<vagrantc>
my ltsp-client-core patches sunk ltsp in NEW ... :(
08:31
<ogra>
yeah, i skiped the merge until tribe1 is done ...
08:31
which i'm just rsyncing
08:31
<vagrantc>
tribe1 ?
08:31
<ogra>
the milestone CD
08:31
you should get familiar with our processes :P
08:32
<vagrantc>
yeah, one of these days
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08:33
<cliebow_>
anyone fell lilke helping with a serial connect to a managed switch?
08:34
<vagrantc>
oh, that's always fun!
08:35* vagrantc has experience with 2 models of managed switches
08:35
<cliebow_>
ive nevere used minicom...can i start mgetty from a commandline oe must i muck with event.d?
08:35* vagrantc prefers screen for serial access
08:36
<vagrantc>
screen /dev/ttyS0
08:36
<cliebow_>
this is telnet dealio
08:36
hmm lemme try
08:36
<vagrantc>
it's telnet ... and serial ?
08:36* vagrantc is confused
08:37
<cliebow_>
opening the book
08:38
guess telnet after the thing will answer
08:38
so just a serial connect..
08:39
by the book hardcoding an addy in dhcp will let you use the network..i cant get that far.
08:39
therefore looking at the serial connect
08:40
i can start mgetty from cli though right?
08:40
<vagrantc>
mgetty running ... on the switch?
08:40
<cliebow_>
on the client machine
08:41
<vagrantc>
i'd skip mgetty and just run "screen /dev/ttyS#"
08:41
<cliebow_>
let me muck with that then
08:42
<vagrantc>
one of the many features of screen that changed my world.
08:42
<ogra>
oh207, shudder that sound support of tcos sounds crazy
08:42
<cliebow_>
all i get is a big blank..
08:43
<ogra>
he will also have to maintain a permanent fork of ltspfs
08:45
<cliebow_>
hmm at least get a device busy
08:48
<vagrantc>
ogra: if we can get egos out of the way, i think we can actually do some good collaboration with tcos
08:49
two folks on their way to debconf just showed up at the hostal! :)
08:50
<ogra>
yay
08:50
vagrantc, well, i dont want to reintroduce ltsp 4.2 in ltsp5
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08:50
<ogra>
!s
08:50
<ltspbot`>
ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:50
<sbalneav>
Morning all!
08:50
Hey ogra!!!
08:51
<vagrantc>
ogra: well, we can't just assume it will fail. i think it's worth putting some effort into sharing code.
08:51
<ogra>
vagrantc, indeed, ibut i dont want anything in the tree that introduces monolithic images again
08:52
as long as the code is sane its fine
08:52
i'D also like to see TCM and tcos-monitor devs work together
08:52
since tcos-moitor reimplements half of TCM
08:53
<vagrantc>
well, yes.
08:53
<ogra>
but TCM has a proper plugin system, client server and frontend backend separation
08:53
so the the kde guys can easly plug their frontend in
08:53
<vagrantc>
i guess, to me, the assumption is we don't do stupid things :P
08:53
<ogra>
while tcos-monitor is further with general user features
08:53
right
08:54
well, at least he seems to think about working together now ... he did refuse it all the time when i talked to him
08:54
and only wanted me to push his packages into ubuntu
08:54
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: If human history has taught us anything, it's that that's a bad assumption to make :)
08:55
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: yes, but in the realm of technical things, i think there's enough eyes with differing perspectives to make that assumption.
08:55
<sbalneav>
:)
08:55
<ogra>
i would also like to see him submitting his changes upstream
08:56
<vagrantc>
i.e. when we start doing something stupid, someone points it out
08:56
<ogra>
i dont think he sent any of his fork of ltspfs to sbalneav yet
08:56
<sbalneav>
who what?
08:56
<ogra>
tcps
08:56
err
08:56
tcos
08:56
<sbalneav>
No, I haven't seen anything.
08:57
<ogra>
he dropped all communication code and uses unencrypted xmlrpc calls through a webserver for the ltspfs comm layer
08:57
<cliebow_>
vagraantc:so what does "could not find a PTY" imply?
08:57
<ogra>
i'm not thrilled about that, but we should have his code there with a build option so he doesnt use old core code all the time
08:57
<vagrantc>
cliebow_: hrm.
08:57
<ogra>
i.e. old ltspfs and ltspfsd
08:58
<cliebow_>
devcie or resource busy
08:59
<ogra>
sbalneav, the autofoo stuff you made for the ldm greeter, do you have that separate from your new C wrapper code ?
08:59
<sbalneav>
yes
08:59
<ogra>
i'd like to have the greeter in gutsy asap and your autofoo stuff would help with packging
08:59
<sbalneav>
greeter and ldm will be separate
08:59
ok,
08:59
I'll finish it up today.
09:00
I'm working on ldm2 atm
09:00
<ogra>
(i'm building the first milestone CD atm s we're frozen anyway, no hurry, i'll be busy until thursday with that)
09:00
<vagrantc>
ogra: regarding 395145 ... with the ipconfig hanging .... when he changes his dhcpd.conf to use next-server ... it works. that's why i really am wondering if he's really using the newer initramfs-tools ...
09:00
<ogra>
well, his answers got more and more vague over the frquent mails
09:01
<vagrantc>
ogra: that's what i really don't understand... how dhcpd.conf changes could bring the link up.
09:01
<ogra>
me neither
09:01
<sbalneav>
k
09:01
<ogra>
but then we patched dhcpd to not need next-server
09:01
thats probably it
09:01
<vagrantc>
still.
09:02
when i had that problem, the patches to initramfs-tools worked fine.
09:02
<ogra>
iirc the server automatically sends the server ip to the client if net-server is unset with our patch
09:02
*next
09:02
<vagrantc>
unless newer things in initramfs-tools broke it ... i only applied the patch to an older version.
09:02
<jfrancis>
anyone up to taking over where jammcq was helping debug a two USB printer setup, this morning??? I can give quick rundown...
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09:06
<jfrancis>
Two printers work fine w/jetdirect port 9100, but neither work with port 9101. Telnetting to port 9101 works, but sending a print job (test page from CUPS or other applications) just takes the printer out of sleep mode (light flashes on printer) but no printing. Two pastebot links for review: http://pastebot.ltsp.org/172 http://pastebot.ltsp.org/173
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09:07
<sbalneav>
jfrancis: What version LTSP, what version host OS?
09:07
<jfrancis>
4.2 host FC5
09:08
Gadi: here's an update since you left yesterday: Two printers work fine w/jetdirect port 9100, but neither work with port 9101. Telnetting to port 9101 works, but sending a print job (test page from CUPS or other applications) just takes the printer out of sleep mode (light flashes on printer) but no printing. Two pastebot links for review: http://pastebot.ltsp.org/172 http://pastebot.ltsp.org/173
09:09
P.S. glad you guys are here!!
09:09
<sbalneav>
So, you have no problem getting one printer going, it's just the second one?
09:09
<jfrancis>
yes. I can interchange the printers and they both work on 9100
09:09
but neither work on 9101 except via telnet
09:10
<aze>
hi all
09:10
<jfrancis>
weird huh
09:10
<sbalneav>
This in a lab?
09:10
<jfrancis>
production
09:10
<ogra>
sbalneav, for a boring minute ... http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/24211/ (was travelling over the weekend and played with ideas in my boredom on the train)
09:11
<vagrantc>
jfrancis: just a crazy thought ... could you try a third printer?
09:12
<sbalneav>
First thing I'd do is check in SCREEN_02 = shell and see what the command lines look like of the printer processes.
09:12
<ogra>
vagrantc, well, he should be able to just define PRINTER_DEVICE_3
09:12
<jfrancis>
vagrantc: I can try in a bit need more hardware :)
09:12
<ogra>
instead of _2
09:13
lp_server wont care which options you force on it (if you just want a differet port)
09:13
<jfrancis>
fairly new to ltsp what ps filter would you like me to run
09:13
?
09:13
<vagrantc>
or try PRINTER_2_DEVICE and PRINTER_3_DEVICE without a _1_
09:14
<jfrancis>
vagrantc: k, i'll give that a try
09:14* vagrantc breathes a sign of nostalgia for lp_server
09:14
<ogra>
heh
09:14
<sbalneav>
ogra: Here's my $50 question of the day.
09:14
<ogra>
we're still missing serial support for jetpipe
09:15
<sbalneav>
Why use squash, which will only slow you down for uncompress. If the nbd's on the server, why not just create a stock ext2/3 image?
09:15
<ogra>
i talked to tkamppeter on the weekend at linuxtag, seems we'll get some udev based magic for printer autoconfiguration in the future
09:15
<sbalneav>
ogra: Jetpipe's on my list to do once I get ldm2 done :)
09:16
<ogra>
sbalneav, the squash goes a lot faster over the network
09:16
its 150M vs 450
09:16
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: it depends on if your limitation is CPU or network ... squashfs requires fewer reads.
09:16
<ogra>
using nbd will eliminate nfs probs
09:16
<sbalneav>
We should make that a build time option
09:16
For me, it would probably be fine.
09:16
<ogra>
well, i was only playinfg with the idea, i'll do some tests
09:16
<vagrantc>
(and introduce nbd problems)
09:16
<ogra>
but it could be an option for low powered clients
09:16
<sbalneav>
It's an interesting idea, anyway.
09:17
<ogra>
its surely not supposed to be a default
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09:17
<vagrantc>
unless performance skyrockets, i'd go with the tried and true
09:18
<sbalneav>
jfrancis: Something's twigging an ancient memory.
09:18
<Thumann>
hi, i'm having big problems with booting using pxe on some of the machines.. it hangs at "Mounting root filesystem /opt/ltsp/i386" or so.. and if i then restart the computer a few times, it boots successfully.. any ideas?
09:18
<sbalneav>
change PRINTER_0's to PRINTER_1's and PRINTER_1's to PRINTER_2's
09:18
<vagrantc>
Thumann: what linux distro?
09:19
<jfrancis>
sbalneav: here are my lp processes on the client: /sbin/lp_server -n 9100 -w -d /dev/usb/lp0 and /sbin/lp_server -n 9101 -w -d /dev/usb/lp1
09:19
sorry for time lapse, have to walk out into the warehouse
09:19
<Thumann>
vagrantc: two server, one debian and one ubuntu
09:20
*two servers
09:20
<vagrantc>
gah. mario's reply to my reponse made it to pkg-ltsp-devel before my reponse
09:20F-GT is now known as Infested_Templar
09:20Infested_Templar is now known as F-GT
09:20
<ogra>
Thumann, but only one dhcp server for the whole network i hope :)
09:20
<Thumann>
ogra: yes :)
09:21
using this fix though: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WorkInProgress#X_Load_Balancing
09:21
a patched startx
09:21
but i had the same problem before, (when i ran with just one server on the ubuntu)
09:22
<ogra>
erm, thats clearly not for ltsp5
09:23
<Thumann>
good thing i'm using 4.1 then
09:23
<ogra>
on ubuntu o_O
09:23
?
09:23* Thumann nods
09:24
<sbalneav>
So, you're not using even 4.2?
09:26
<vagrantc>
ogra: you act like it's absurd :P
09:26
<ogra>
vagrantc, well
09:27
<Thumann>
hmm.. might be 4.2
09:27
shouldn't ltspinfo give .. well.. info?
09:27
<ogra>
nobody should use 4.x on any recent ubuntu anymore
09:28
<vagrantc>
well, we still have a ways to go to be on par with 4.x with a few things...
09:28
and until then, people are going to do it.
09:28
no matter how much we whine about it :P
09:28
<ogra>
well
09:28
it forces us to support the old stuff still
09:29
which just burns manpower
09:29
<vagrantc>
you can refuse to support it
09:29
<ogra>
and delays the new feature development
09:29
<jfrancis>
sbalneav && vagrantc: changing PRINTER_0's to PRINTER_1's and PRINTER_1's to PRINTER_2's did _not_ work - grrrr.
09:29pere has quit IRC
09:29
<ogra>
which i do :)
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09:30
<jfrancis>
sbalneav && vagrantc: same result as before
09:30
<Thumann>
so anyways :) any ideas?
09:30
and where is /linuxrc located?
09:30
in the initrd image?
09:31
gonna try switching nfs to run over tcp instead of udp
09:37* vagrantc should have contacted the tcos guy while in madrid ... he only lives like an hour from here
09:38
<ogra>
doit :)
09:38
<vagrantc>
i leave thursday already
09:40
<Q-FUNK>
any interesting upcoming event where we can all meet for a drink?
09:41
an LTSP pbu rally could be fun.
09:41
<sbalneav>
Probably the next one would be in Boston.
09:42
<vagrantc>
there'll be a few of us in portland, oregon in july
09:42
<Q-FUNK>
anything in europe?
09:42
<ogra>
thats just gone
09:42
<vagrantc>
and a few in edinburgh, scottland at the debian conference starting in a few days
09:42
<ogra>
it was in sevilla last month
09:43
<vagrantc>
Q-FUNK: "pbu" ?
09:43
<Q-FUNK>
yup. missed sevilla and cannot go to debconf.
09:43
pub
09:43
<vagrantc>
Q-FUNK: where you located?
09:43
<Gadi>
ogra, sbalneav: if you are interested, I ported /usr/sbin/ldm to bash this morning - to see if python was really the slow point
09:44
<cliebow_>
and.........
09:44
<Q-FUNK>
I could have gone to sevilla, if i had booked everything on time.
09:44
<sbalneav>
Did that fix it?
09:44
I'd love to see it.
09:44
<ogra>
Gadi, so did you see the 20 sec speedup sbalneav had ?
09:44
<Gadi>
I'm not sure it is (but I have only tested on a thin client where the greeter slowness dwarfs all)
09:44
<Q-FUNK>
as for debconf, UK is acountry in which i refuse to step foot until they got rid of the police state.
09:44
<Gadi>
I would love to get it to you guys
09:44
so, you can use it to test
09:44
<vagrantc>
Gadi: stick it in a branch! :)
09:45
<ogra>
Gadi, how did you overcome the obvious security prblems in using bash here ?
09:45
<Gadi>
which problems are you refering to?
09:45
<ogra>
i know mdz started off with a shell based implementation but our security team shouted
09:45
no proper way of forking safely iirc
09:45
<vagrantc>
security though slowness!
09:46
<Gadi>
Im not forking anything
09:46
<Q-FUNK>
if debian and ubuntu standardized on dash as the default shell, instead of bash, it would help.
09:46
<Gadi>
Im just setting up vars, calling the greeter
09:46
<vagrantc>
unless calling ssh is considered forking ...
09:46
<Q-FUNK>
vagrantc: currently, .FI and .EE
09:46
<vagrantc>
Q-FUNK: there's been a lot of work in that direction
09:46
<Gadi>
thats not a fork - its a child process
09:47
<ogra>
vagrantc, exactly
09:47
Gadi, nope
09:47
it forks off and closes stdin in the python implementation
09:47
(stdin of the child)
09:47
<Gadi>
ok...
09:47* vagrantc would still be curious to see the results
09:48
<Gadi>
how does this require such measures when an untold number of init scripts written in bash do not?
09:48
<ogra>
there are no initscripts in bash at all
09:48
(at least in ubuntu)
09:48
we use dash
09:48
<Gadi>
ok
09:48
<vagrantc>
ok, so say i port Gadi's work to dash ...
09:48
<Gadi>
and dash is mor secure?
09:48
er, more
09:48
<ogra>
no
09:49* vagrantc suspects dash is actually more secure, as it's considerably less code
09:49
<Q-FUNK>
ogra: i meant that both should stop shipping with bash by default. they should ship with dash instead.
09:49
<ogra>
POSIX compliant , half as memory hungry as bash and a lot faster
09:49
Q-FUNK, ubuntu does since dapper
09:49
<vagrantc>
it's pretty easy to set in debian.
09:49
<Gadi>
well, we can use whatever *sh you want
09:49
<ogra>
we dont use bash anywhere in the system ...
09:49
<vagrantc>
but not yet the default
09:49
<ogra>
only as login shell for users
09:50
<Q-FUNK>
ogra: not quite. bash is still shipped. what ubuntu does is pre-configure dash as sh.
09:50
<ogra>
Gadi, well coding for dash is significantly different, since your code needs to be fully POSIX compliant
09:50
<vagrantc>
ogra: POSIX + XSI extensions
09:50
<ogra>
Q-FUNK, as i said badh isnt used apart from login
09:50efra has joined #ltsp
09:50
<ogra>
*bash
09:51
<Gadi>
ok, I will make it dash compliant and let you know
09:51
<jfrancis>
sbalneav && vagrantc: any ideas? changing PRINTER_0's to PRINTER_1's and PRINTER_1's to PRINTER_2's did _not_ work. I tried running Wireshark network analyzer but WAY too much traffic to sort through
09:51
<Gadi>
should take all of a few seconds
09:51
<ogra>
there are no scripts in ubuntu anywhere that use bash
09:51
<vagrantc>
Gadi: it will likely run even faster
09:51
<Gadi>
I'll only miss the nice bash expansions
09:51
<ogra>
right
09:51
<Q-FUNK>
ensuring that all shell scripts are basic would require debian and ubutu not shipign any login shell by default and letting users decide among bash, tcsh and zsh, which one they want.
09:51
<vagrantc>
Gadi: like arrays ?
09:51
<ogra>
Gadi, and quoting is different in many places
09:52
<Gadi>
just about all of them, vagrantc
09:52
<vagrantc>
Gadi: what constructs did you use?
09:52
<ogra>
Q-FUNK, all scripts in main are dash compliant
09:52
<sbalneav>
jfrancis: Not off the top of my head. Is this the only terminal around? Any chance you could hang one printer off one machine, and onother off a different terminal?
09:52
<Gadi>
like this wont work: TESTME=$(echo "${!1}"|tr '[:upper:]' '[:lower:]')
09:52
<ogra>
at east the ones the systm usees
09:52
<Gadi>
because of the !
09:52
<ogra>
*least
09:53
<Q-FUNK>
ogra: you're not hearing me.
09:54
<vagrantc>
Gadi: ah well. release early, release often. that's what i say.
09:54
<ogra>
Q-FUNK, its moot to discuss it
09:54
<vagrantc>
Gadi: fork over the code! :P
09:55gigabytes has joined #ltsp
09:55
<jfrancis>
sbalneav: a hardware workaround?! :)
09:55* sbalneav shrugs
09:55
<jfrancis>
heh
09:55
<sbalneav>
Any old port in a storm.
09:56
<cliebow_>
sbalneav: an ot?
09:58
<ogra>
vagrantc, btw, you should subscrib to the gutsy-changes list or use the rss feed for it to be up to date what gets uploaded
09:59
<jfrancis>
I can definately get them both working on port 9100 (on two separate terminals) but unfortunately we don't have another network drop in the warehouse
09:59
<cliebow_>
using screen /dev/ttyS0 to try to contact a switch..mgetty -s 115200 -r ttyS0 vt 100 run from a command line..sudo screen /dev/ttyS0 gives a blank page..can you aim me the right way togo
09:59
<ogra>
i guess the rss is less ressource hungry
10:02
<sbalneav>
jfrancis: Well, I don't have a 4.2 install around here to test any further, so I'm at a loss there. As for another drop, $15 5 port switch fixes that problem. I suppose it's a case of "do you want it fixed properly, or fixed quickly"?
10:02
<jfrancis>
sbalneav: true
10:02
upgrade in order too
10:03* vagrantc don't know how to use rss
10:05
<ogra>
vagrantc, you install an rss reader like liferea
10:05
and give it a feed url
10:06
unlike mail it wont eat all your disk but show you the recent uploads
10:08mEDUXa has joined #ltsp
10:11
<vporo>
out of topic, but does anyone have experience with debian/ubuntu preseed and d-i preseed/run ?
10:11
<vagrantc>
vporo: a fair bit
10:11
vporo: check out #debian-custom on irc.oftc.net
10:12
<vporo>
ok, thanks
10:13plamengr has joined #ltsp
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10:23
<vagrantc>
ogra: wow. either liferea's dependencies are pretty minimal, or gnome is slowly creeping onto my computer.
10:23
<ogra>
heh
10:24
i think liferea only needs gtk
10:24
<sbalneav>
Gadi: sooooooo? Where is it!!! gimmegimmegimmegimmegimme
10:26* vagrantc prepares an angry mob with pitchforks and torches to appear at Gadi's door
10:29MoL0ToV has quit IRC
10:29
<sbalneav>
I was thinking more a friendly mob bearing beer and usb sticks, but if you want to go for the whole Frankenstein vs. the Werewolf thing, ok :)
10:29
<cliebow_>
cliebow sharpens his bludgeon
10:30gigabytes has quit IRC
10:30
<ogra>
vagrantc, http://media.ubuntu-nl.org/rss/gutsy.xml
10:30* vagrantc dulls a pointy stick
10:31
<vagrantc>
ogra: what's ubuntu-nl ?
10:31
<sbalneav>
You're *SHARPENING* a bludgeon? I though the entire point of a bludgeon was that it was, err, blunt.
10:31
<ogra>
vagrantc, the dutch commuity
10:31
<sbalneav>
No Linky
10:31
<ogra>
vagrantc, they care for the rss feed
10:31* vagrantc introduces sbalneav to the subtleties of humour
10:32
<cliebow_>
what do you expect from a Mainiac
10:34
<Gadi>
sorry, guys - had to work around this whole no-array thing
10:34
now im dash compliant
10:34
if not with a cheesy workaround for arrays :)
10:35
and it does seem faster
10:35
<ogra>
would be funny if not :)
10:35
dash is known to speed up things
10:35
<Gadi>
i will bzr it after a trip to the little engineer's room
10:36* ogra wonders if they also have big and medium sized engineers in separate rooms at Gadis place
10:36jfrancis has quit IRC
10:36
<BadMagic>
hey all
10:36
long time no chat
10:36
<vagrantc>
bash has a lot of stuff that's completely useless in scripting that gets loaded
10:36
<BadMagic>
jammcq... U round?
10:36
<ogra>
yeah
10:36
<vagrantc>
all the interactivity stuff
10:36
<BadMagic>
hmmm
10:36
<ogra>
right
10:37
<BadMagic>
not really a ltsp question, but know there are folks here that may be able to send someone my business....
10:37
looking for heavy data processing power... (leasable mysql database server space)
10:38
anyone have any contacts for such a beast/service? Used to use some hosting companies when I was doing php/mysql stuff, but don't remember the contacts...
10:38
<Guaraldo>
BadMagic: #mysql can be more efective to your question, I think...
10:38
<ogra>
if you really want it to serve *heavy* load i wouldnt take mysql
10:38
<BadMagic>
been there, doing that.....
10:38
<ogra>
rather postgres
10:38vanya has quit IRC
10:38
<ogra>
it has the clustering functionallity an oracle server has
10:38* Guaraldo agree with orga...
10:39
<ogra>
so its way better scalable
10:39
<BadMagic>
treid postgress, was much, much slower.... maybe I didn't setup correctly, but sure was slower
10:39
<ogra>
mysql is great for a lot of stuff but in certain situations postgres copes a lot better
10:39meho_ is now known as meho
10:39
<BadMagic>
simple database structure, no inserts, updates, or writes at all
10:40
<ogra>
i.e with several tens of millions of datasets
10:40
<BadMagic>
just need to do queries that can't use indexes, and must itterate through every record for the answer
10:40
the data is 2.8 million records
10:40
<ogra>
tats not much
10:40
*thats
10:41
<BadMagic>
no, but takes 3 seconds on my dual core amd64 machine.... and for 2.8 million queiries (how each record is realated to all the others) it will take about 3 montsh to get my answer
10:41
<ogra>
the biggest setup i have seen with mysql was around 18 mio datasets on a single server ... and that was still somewhat responsive ...
10:41
<BadMagic>
need answer yesterday
10:41
company willing to throw as much $$$ as needed to expedite the answer
10:41
<ogra>
if you double or triple that you will get probs with mysql, but for 3 mio sets it should be totally fine
10:42
<BadMagic>
and it is.... now just need more power
10:42SBNet has joined #ltsp
10:42
<ogra>
well, if they are willing to pay why not pay mysql professional support :)
10:42
they offer it
10:42* BadMagic thinks of scotty star trek quote, but holds back
10:42
<BadMagic>
do they have hardware to do work with?
10:43
suppose they may be able to point me to a customer of theirs that can lease me some cpu...
10:43SBNet has quit IRC
10:43
<ogra>
http://www.mysql.com/support/
10:43
they offer support contracts
10:43* BadMagic looking at mysql.com/support
10:45
<cyberorg>
BadMagic: for queries only openldap might serve your purpose too, and it is very fast
10:48
<Thumann>
is there a tool to see how many clients are connected to a ltsp server?
10:49
<BadMagic>
all clients are through dhcp allocation, and there should be a way to ask what address are currently leased, or connect just with network utilities
10:49
not necessarily ltsp tools
10:50
connect/connectede
10:50
<ogra>
Thumann, depends
10:50
<cyberorg>
arp -a ?
10:50
<ogra>
for ltsp5 we ship thin-client-manager by default in ubuntu
10:50
<sbalneav>
Thumann: Well, if you're on Ubuntu/Edubuntu, you can use thin client manager.
10:50
<Thumann>
ogra: top doesn't show the clients 'hanging' at the login prompt
10:50
<ogra>
Thumann, no, only the running sessions
10:50
sbalneav, http://www.linux4afrika.de/linuxtag_big.avi
10:51
some german for you :)
10:51
<sbalneav>
Danka schoen
10:51
<ogra>
with edubuntu prais from german TV :)
10:51
*praise
10:53
<Thumann>
sbalneavl: thin-client-manager sounds nifty, where to get?
10:53
<BadMagic>
Thumann: would that be an xdm thing (if that is still what ltsp uses for remote logins)
10:53
<sbalneav>
Thumann: Well, what distro are you running?
10:53
<ogra>
BadMagic, xdm was 20 years ago :)
10:53
<BadMagic>
hmm, what is the X login server...?
10:54
<ogra>
BadMagic, new ltsp uses ldm and between that it used g/kdm
10:54
<sbalneav>
Well, we're trying to standardize on ldm
10:54
<BadMagic>
ah, ya, that's right... kdm... hehe what is ldm?
10:54
<Thumann>
sbalneav: ubuntu on one box, debian on the other
10:55
<ogra>
Thumann, but not ltsp5 right ?
10:55
TCM doent work with anything olde
10:55
*older
10:56
<Thumann>
ogra: no, not ltsp5
10:56
<sbalneav>
Are you wanting to see people logged in? Or everyone who's turned on?
10:58
<Thumann>
well, both i guess
10:58
<sbalneav>
Well, arp -a can show you all the terminals your box knows about with IP addresses
10:59plamengr has joined #ltsp
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10:59
<sbalneav>
The showmount program can show you who's got /opt/ltsp/i386 mounted.
11:00
If you're using k or g dm, ps -ef | grep [kg]dm can show you who's logged in.
11:00
etc.
11:00
<Thumann>
mm
11:00
<sbalneav>
Is this just curiousity, or are you trying to debug a problem?
11:00
<Thumann>
arp -a lists are "almost" identical on both servers
11:01
<sbalneav>
If they're both on the same network, they will be.
11:01
<Thumann>
sbalneav: no, everything, including the x load balancing, is working great now
11:01
just wanted to have some sort of .. overview :)
11:01
sbalneav: yes
11:02
showmount shows 119 lines :o
11:03
showmount |wc -l
11:03
minus the one line at the top, 118 connected users.. that's wrong
11:04
<ogra>
it doesnt show any users
11:04
<Thumann>
workstations
11:04
<ogra>
yep
11:04
<Thumann>
other server shows 16
11:04
<ogra>
seems you have some stale nfs mounts there
11:05
<Thumann>
can i check for how long they've been idle?
11:05
no, can't
11:07
nuts to that :) last question, how can i allow my terminals to use the xdmcp option?
11:07
(connect to another server)
11:11
<ogra>
if you use 4.2 they default to xdmcp anyway
11:11
just set the SERVER variable for the specific clients
11:12F-GT has quit IRC
11:12
<Thumann>
ogra: that doesn't give me the option to connect to another server than the one i'll connect to
11:13F-GT has joined #ltsp
11:13
<ogra>
Thumann, right
11:13
dunno then ...
11:14
<- doesnt otuc 4.2 and 5.x is jus getting a server selector in ldm
11:14
*touch
11:14fernando1 has joined #ltsp
11:15
<ogra>
i guess yu would have to get gdm running on the client somehow and switch on the browsing feature ...
11:15
instead of running it on the server
11:15ogra has quit IRC
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11:20* ogra curses gnome-power-manager for randomly shitting down his laptop
11:24pere is now known as pere_away
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11:27
<jammcq>
hey kidz
11:27
<ogra>
yo jammcq
11:34
<mistik1>
hola
11:39
<cliebow_>
yoho
11:40
<ogra>
jammcq, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/24211/
11:40
thoughts from a boring trainride :)
11:49J45p3r_ has joined #ltsp
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12:18
<Alexandre_>
Someone has some exemples files of LTSP 5.0 in Ubuntu ?!?!?!?
12:18
<vagrantc>
Alexandre_: what do you need ?
12:18
!ubuntu
12:18
<ltspbot`>
vagrantc: "ubuntu" is a Debian based GNU/Linux distrubution that includes a Ubuntu specific version of LTSP. It can be found at http://www.ubuntulinux.org. to install ltsp on ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
12:19
<Alexandre_>
Someone?!?!?
12:19
<vagrantc>
Alexandre_: what do you need ?
12:19
Alexandre_: could you please try and ask a more specific question?
12:20
<Alexandre_>
vagrantc: i'm start to configure and the dhcpd.conf is diferent
12:21
i installed the packages and now is configuration!! vagrantc
12:21
<vagrantc>
Alexandre_: which packages did you install ?
12:22
<Alexandre_>
vagrantc: ltsp-server-standalone openssh-server
12:22
vagrantc: and them sudo ltsp-build-client
12:22
<vagrantc>
Alexandre_: so edit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf for your network
12:22
<Alexandre_>
i do
12:22
i need some exemple of this file
12:23
<Guaraldo>
Alexandre_: Did you ever configured a dhcp server?
12:23
<Alexandre_>
4.1
12:24
<vagrantc>
/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf is the example ....
12:24
<Guaraldo>
Alexandre_: You change the range of IPs to fit your network...
12:24cyberorg has left #ltsp
12:26
<ogra>
Alexandre_, did you read the quick install page ?
12:27
<Alexandre_>
yes
12:27
<ogra>
do you have two NICs in you server ?
12:28
<Alexandre_>
This is my dhcpd.conf in 4.1 http://paste.ubuntubrasil.org/4306
12:29
<ogra>
do you have two NICs in you server ?
12:30
<Alexandre_>
Yes 2
12:31
eth0 web, eth1 internal network
12:31Thumann has quit IRC
12:32
<ogra>
so did you see the sentence "Configure your spare interface for the thin clients to have the IP 192.168.0.1, then follow the instructions below." in the quickinstall guide ?
12:32
if you do that you cdont need to touch *any* config, all will work out of the box
12:33
if you urgently want a different ip range for the clients, you need to replace all occurences of "192.168.0." to the network you want to use for your thin clients and restart the dhcp server
12:33
<Alexandre_>
Ogra don't need to do nothing in this file ?!?!!? Nothing like this: http://paste.ubuntubrasil.org/4306
12:34
<ogra>
no, this file works for 90% of the people
12:34
change it only if you need to
12:34
this is tue for all of ltsp5
12:35
everything is autodetected and works out of the box with it ... change config files only to override the defaults
12:35mEDUXa has quit IRC
12:35
<Alexandre_>
ogra: ok i turn on the thins to try
12:36
my thin is searching for dhcp server
12:37
ogra stopd
12:37
<ogra>
is the dhcp server running ?
12:38
(on the ltsp server)
12:38
<Alexandre_>
ogra: * Stopping DHCP server dhcpd3 [ OK ] * Starting DHCP server dhcpd3 [ OK ]
12:38
<ogra>
ok
12:39gonzaloaf has joined #ltsp
12:39
<ogra>
is the client network attached to the interface it runs on (the one with 192.168.0.X as IP ?)
12:40
<Alexandre_>
ogra: yes
12:41
<ogra>
do you see the client requests in te servers logs ?
12:41
<Alexandre_>
ogra: http://paste.ubuntubrasil.org/4308
12:42
No
12:42
<ogra>
hmm sonds ratherlike a network problem ...
12:42
<Sunborne>
Hi LTSP folks! I have been wrestling with this problem for a couple of weeks now. I'm trying to create kiosks with thin clients and everything works except auto-login. they need to autologin to the "ltspguest" account. Strangely, the server does autologin into ltspguest but the thin clients dont.
12:43
<ogra>
Sunborne, using ltsp5 ?
12:43
<Sunborne>
i'm running LTSP 5 on Kubuntu.
12:43
<ogra>
Sunborne, ldm (the ltsp loginmanager) doesnt support autologin yet
12:44
<Sunborne>
I think I'm using kdm.
12:44
<Alexandre_>
ogra: this is my system log http://paste.ubuntubrasil.org/4309
12:44Gadi has quit IRC
12:45privet has quit IRC
12:46
<Sunborne>
should I use LTSP 4.2.? I haven't figure a way around the Ubuntu no-inittab thing with 4.2
12:46
<ogra>
Alexandre_, well, it doesnt recieve any client requests
12:46SBNet has joined #ltsp
12:46
<Alexandre_>
ogra: so what i need to do?
12:47
<ogra>
Sunborne, unless you tweaked the client chroot you use ldm on the clients ... you can switch to unencrypted XDMCP transport and make it se kdm from the server, but that wont support sound or local devices
12:47
Alexandre_, check twice the client network is attached to the right interface
12:48
you should at least see the client asking for the IP
12:48
<Alexandre_>
Sunborne: can i see your files in this site http://paste.ubuntubrasil.org/ ?!?!!?
12:49
<ogra>
Sunborne, by forcing SCREEN_07=startx in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf you can enable the insecure XDMCP transport in ltsp5
12:49
just add that line to the default file
12:50
we're working on an autologin feature for gutsy atm
12:51
<Sunborne>
Haven't tweaked the client chroot, but I managed to get rid of the yellow ubuntu login screen and get the nice blue Kubuntu one instead. So I thought I was using kdm at that point.
12:51fernando1 has joined #ltsp
12:51
<ogra>
Sunborne, how did you manage that ?
12:52
also note that kdm is known to have had issues with networked X in the past, i'm not sure thats fuly fixed yet
12:52
<Sunborne>
I documented what I did but I gotta pull the doc up. gimme a sec.
12:52Gadi has joined #ltsp
12:53
<ogra>
since you want autologin any users wont see it anyway i'd suggest to use gdm for such stuff
12:54
(but indeed it might be that kdm is fixed over time, gnome user here, so i'm not following kde development)
12:54
<Sunborne>
I did a SCREEN_7=startx in lts.conf
12:55
<ogra>
ah, then you are using the servers KDM
12:55
likely a kdm prob then
12:55
<Sunborne>
be right back...
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13:06
<Sunborne>
if I use gdm can I still auto-login into a KDE environment? KDE is spec'd in the project requirements, plus I'm in love with the kiosktool.
13:07
<ogra>
sure
13:07
its just the display manager you change
13:09
<Sunborne>
I think all I have to do is pull out the screen_07 line.
13:09
<ogra>
no
13:09
install gdm on the server and set it up for autologin
13:09
<Sunborne>
aptitude install gdm?
13:10
<ogra>
dropping the SCREEN_07 will switch back to ldm
13:10
right
13:11
<Sunborne>
will try it and get back to U... thanks! May need some help on gdm autologin but I'll try to figure it out myself first.
13:15
<ogra>
Sunborne, edit /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom (not gdm.conf, that gets overwritten on upgrades) and change these options: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/24282/
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13:18
<Sunborne>
Got the link ogra. looks cool. thanks!
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16:53
<mischko>
Just installed LTSP on an Ubuntu box and got it running. Things are easier these days than they used to be!
16:54
I'm noticing that it's quite a bit slower doing screen refreshes than it was when I had the client box set up as an Ubuntu box and had it XDMCP boot off the server. Why is that?
17:02
<sutula>
mischko: All the traffic goes through an ssh tunnel. The client and server are having to encrypt/decrypt
17:02
<mischko>
sutula, Can I turn that off?
17:03
<sutula>
mischko: I understand they are working on a DIRECTX option to turn it off, but it may not be done yet. I just went back to using XDMCP. Just a sec
17:04
mischko: On the server, in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf, use:
17:05
SCREEN_07 = startx
17:05
mischko: Of course, be warned about XDMCP lack of security
17:05
<mischko>
sutula, this is a home network. I'm not worried about xdmcp security.
17:05
Thanks! I'll try that.
17:06
<sutula>
mischko: My setup is the same, with very old (slow) clients, so I was happy doing that as well
17:06
<mischko>
Changing that line does not require restarting anything on the server, right?
17:06
<sutula>
mischko: right
17:06
mischko: Client reboot
17:06
<mischko>
Cool. I'll disappear while I reboot and hopefully things will "just work"!
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17:30
<mischko>
Hey, I have a ethernet card that I think is one of DisklessWorkstation.com's AOpen AON-325's but I'm not sure. What chipset is on those? There is no removable ROM chip on this card so I'm thinking maybe not?
17:32
<sutula>
mischko: You made it back...are you XDMCP'ing?
17:33
<mischko>
sutula, yes. It's quicker!
17:33
Thanks again.
17:33
<sutula>
mischko: Great...I don't know anything about the cards, unfortunately
17:33
<mischko>
I wonder if I can boot a workstation and make it run PostgreSQL, and other packages?
17:33
np on the card. I doubt it's the right one because it doesn't have a boot ROM.
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17:34
<sutula>
mischko: I know you can, as long as long as it has the RAM (or you enable swap) for whatever you're trying to run
17:34
mischko: Stuff to be run on the client needs to be installed in the chroot
17:34
<mischko>
sutula, yup. I'm not clear on how to do that.
17:35
<sutula>
mischko: The chroot env is "sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386" on the server...poke around and install packages in there
17:36
<mischko>
sutula, I'll play with it. Thanks!
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17:40
<mischko>
I
17:40
I'd want local hard drive for some packages.
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18:50
<Usuario43>
hi
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