IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 13 October 2008   (all times are UTC)

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01:21
<jomonto>
hello - new to IRC, how to I log in ? command line...?
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01:23
<johnny>
you're logged in now..
01:24
<jomo>
im trying to verify my nickname - and nickserv tells me that i need to be logged in first
01:26
<johnny>
then /msg NICKSERV HELP
01:26
you want register and identify
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05:48
<petre>
warren, ping
05:49
<nubae>
!docs
05:49
<ltspbot>
nubae: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
05:53* ogra arghs ....
05:53
<ogra>
warren, does FC10 use fusa for logout as well ?
05:53
thats so broken by design, sigh
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06:25
<stgraber>
ogra: ping
06:25
ogra: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/italc/
06:25
<ogra>
stgraber, yes, yes, i havent forgotten about you
06:26
just trying to fix the fusa disaster
06:26
<stgraber>
hehe, ok, good luck :)
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06:26
<ogra>
well, two out of three issues are done, but i have no clue how to make the logout work
06:27
fusa seems to do it different to gnome-session
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06:44
<stgraber>
ogra: did you also make it not crash when gdm isn't started ?
06:44
ogra: I filed a bug about that a week or two ago
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06:46
<ogra>
stgraber, no, i work on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fast-user-switch-applet/+bug/282613 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fast-user-switch-applet/+bug/282610 and most critical on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fast-user-switch-applet/+bug/282595
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07:02
<stgraber>
ogra: if you have time: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fast-user-switch-applet/+bug/275031 :)
07:02
it's sort of a problem with clustered LTSP as we don't enable GDM server-side
07:02
(why would you enable gdm on something that doesn't even have a display)
07:02
<ogra>
well, i guess that would need significant design changes to fusa
07:02
it relies on the gdm socket
07:03
disabling the applet is kind of wonky since it it the default logout item in the panel now
07:03
*it is
07:04
<stgraber>
hmm, even with the LTSP changes you're doing ? if you can make it work for thin clients (as in disable almost all features), I don't see why it'd still need the gdm socket
07:04
for now, we just disable it and add our own menu entries to trigger remote shutdown/reboot (localapp+sudo) and the logout
07:12
<ogra>
right, but we cant fiddle with the default applets in standard ltsp
07:12
though we start gdm by default anyway there
07:14
<stgraber>
yeah, I'll need to do a desktop package for gnome and kde for our customers, I'll just add the gconf thing to disable fusa in there.
07:15
we should really work to have it integrated with the localapps in Jaunty, that'd rock
07:15
<ogra>
yeah, indeed
07:15
but tat will require a lot bigger patches
07:16
currently i can easily add an if statement that checks for LTSP_CLIENT and dis/enables parts of the UI thats not very intrusive
07:17
and you would have to run localapps by default regardless if the sysadmin has chosen to, else you would break desktop pieces
07:17
<stgraber>
right
07:18
btw, are you also fixing the "System -> Shut Down" option ? standard logout works fine and user switching is disabled but I still see the shutdown and reboot options there :(
07:18
I'm not sure if that part is shared with FUSA (I'm getting a bit confused about the current session management stuff in gnome)
07:18
<ogra>
its not
07:18
i'm just patching gnome-panel to hide it
07:19
(the shutdown at least)
07:21
<stgraber>
ok, that's all I need :)
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07:28
<stgraber>
ogra: I'm off for a meeting, please think of iTalc (the sooner it's in the more feedback I get, if any ...) :) thanks and good luck with fusa+gnome-panel
07:28
<ogra>
thanks
07:28
i will care for italc asap
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07:58
<warren>
ogra: what is fusa?
07:58
<ogra>
fast-user-switch-aplet
07:58
*applet
07:59
we use it as default logout dialog in ubuntu now
07:59* ogra is writing patches like mad
07:59
<warren>
I don't know, i'll ask
07:59* lejo_ recommends ogra diff ;-)
07:59
<ogra>
i didnt notice how much breaks with the new logout dialogs
07:59
<warren>
what kind of break?
08:00
didn't you already release intrepid?
08:00
<ogra>
warren, you might want https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/282669 in fedors
08:00
*fedora
08:00
intrepid reelases on 30th
08:00
<warren>
oh
08:00
<ogra>
thats why i said to hold back your ldm UI changes until after :)
08:00
debian might not release before jan.
08:01
though they aim for dec. i read
08:02
warren, how big to you thnk the chances are to get the LTSP_CLIENT changes upstream ... lest time i tried (which was 2 years ago) they didnt find them intresting since only debian and ubuntu had ltsp5 ... with fedora using it it might make sense to have all the changes applied in gnome upstream
08:03
<warren>
what changes?
08:03
I haven't heard of these before.
08:03
there are an entire pile of these?
08:04
ugh, this is not a good time to surprise me with a pile of new patches
08:04
I have not used F10 yet
08:05
<ogra>
warren, its a bunch ... mainly suppressing stuff if LTSP_CLIENT is set
08:05
i would have loved them upstream, but every time i asked for it they were to ubuntu specific
08:06
i told you about them before
08:07
<warren>
our desktop people will be very against changing behavior for an env variable
08:07
<ogra>
like suppressing eject in nautilus' context menu (i showed you that one a while ago) ... the logout/shutdown patch was aleays ubuntu specific as we had our own logout dialog untl now
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08:07
<ogra>
right
08:07
thats been what i was told
08:07
<warren>
could you post a list of URL's to ltsp-developer?
08:08
<ogra>
well, i dont mind to go on carrying them downstream, but it would be painful for you
08:08
and it really depends how you handle things like logout for example, if you dont use fusa many of the new ones wont affect you anyway, the one for gnome-panel above is small enough and might help you though
08:09
i'll have to look up the nautilus ones (and have to check if they even still work)
08:09
when do you release ?
08:09* ogra thought after ubuntu
08:10
<warren>
only slightly after ubuntu
08:10
please make a list of URL to the list
08:10
<ogra>
right, so you still have time
08:10
i cant promise i find the time before release i'll look at the nautilus one anyway though and can sned you a patch
08:12
<warren>
how long were you using these downstream patches?
08:12
years?
08:13
<ogra>
tuntil now they only were the nautilus one which upstream refused to take and the patch against the ubuntu specific logout dialog
08:13
and i told you abou the nautilus one before
08:14
if you dont use fusa (seems the logout stuff is all downstream changes) most of them wont be intresting for you
08:14
but the one i posted above will
08:14
i also doubt fedora has a guest login by default
08:15
<warren>
we do have the concept of guest login
08:15
not by default
08:15
and it uses selinux for isolation
08:16
I don't know how it works
08:16
<ogra>
ah, well, outs doesnt afauk
08:16
*ours
08:16
it uses a tmpfs aufs mount for /home afaik
08:16
and its in gdm by default
08:16
fusa is patched downstream to offer a switch which breaks in ltsp ... but i dont think that affects you
08:17
same goes for shutdown and reboot in fusa, both are downstream changes in ubuntu, wont affect you
08:18
gnome-power-manager is intresting for you, but i showed you that one before as well
08:18
(suppress suspend/hibernate by defult in ltsp)
08:19
anyway, need to go back to fusa hacking
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08:28
<pscheie>
warren, can we incorporate the changes to the README that Patrice suggested and still make your spin?
08:28
warren, further, should all the changes suggested happen?
08:29
e.g., I'm not sure I agree with making its focus more about the enabling the bridging than about getting LTSP working
08:31
<warren>
pscheie: where is patrice's usggestions?
08:32
pscheie: I'm completely out of time, although I didn't test it yet, testing it now
08:32
if testing shows some big problem then I have to respin
08:32
pscheie: the ONLY hard part about the readme is setting up the bridge
08:32
<pscheie>
warren, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=464430
08:33
right, and while it is arguably largely about getting the bridge working, in my mind its purpose is to enable people to test out ltsp
08:34
<warren>
pscheie: I suppose it isn't explained clearly enough that is the purpose of that document
08:34
<pscheie>
plus, he doesn't like the line about deleting the README link from /etc/skel
08:34
<warren>
I didn't like that part either.
08:34
<pscheie>
rpm -e instead?
08:35
I don't like that because it also removes it for the person who just downloaded it and is trying it out.
08:36
<ltsppbot>
"ogra" pasted "power-manager patch for warren" (25 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/30
08:37
<ogra>
in case you are intrested
08:37
<warren>
ogra: heh, this is the bug I was looking at yesterday.
08:37
pscheie: then argue that point
08:37
<ogra>
trivial fix
08:38
if you dont adjust the text its two lines only
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08:39
<pscheie>
warren, ok; I'm just unclear as to the priority for *today* since you're trying to get a spin out the door
08:39
seems making doc changes at this point would be pointless
08:39
but worth doing for later
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08:40
<gate_keeper_>
guys, do u have any idea what can cause huge lo traffic on ltsp ubuntu-server
08:40
with 1 client connected there's about 10Mbit's of traffic on lo
08:40
almost identical with the interface used for the internal network
08:41
sending traffic all the time from 127.0.0.1 to 127.0.0.1 on ports from 6011 to 6047
08:41
x11
08:41
i don't think, that that's normal ....
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08:43
<warren>
pscheie: discuss it over the next week or so
08:45
<pscheie>
that works for me
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09:30
<ogra>
nubae, USE_NBD_SWAP is a 4.x option while NBD_SWAP is a 5.x one
09:31
not sure we kept any backwards compatibility for that specific option (we probably should if we dont though)
09:32
<nubae>
is that in the docs?
09:33
<ogra>
NBD_SWAP shuld be
09:34
<nubae>
is there a way for lts.conf to throw back errors for options that dont exist or are wrong?
09:35
<ogra>
not really
09:35
that would have to be implemented in getltscfg which didnt change since ltsp 3.x
09:35
<nubae>
the older it gets the less it should change? :p
09:36
<ogra>
no, but an option checker will slow it down
09:36
we could add something like visudo server side
09:36
<nubae>
well one could turn it on or off
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10:25
<alkisg>
ogra, latest updates from ldm & translations, tested right now with a fully updated chroot: (1) I still don't see Greek in ldm, (2) ldm.mo *is* on the chroot for all of my installed locales, (3) gettext -d ldm 'Username' on the client does return the greek translation. I'm a fair C programmer but new to Linux, do you have any hints as for where to look to debug this? Can I run ldm in the server to check?
10:26
(I mean the greeter)
10:27
<ogra>
no idea, i didnt touch the greeter for over a year, it used to work though
10:27
<alkisg>
ok... I'll have a look, even just for the experience.
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10:29
<alkisg>
(ldm.mo was automatically copied on the chroot, I didn't manually copy it, so you don't have to check for packaging errors).
10:38
Another bug is that the new gnome applet that displays both the user name and the user status (away, busy etc) has some options like logout, shutdown but most of them do nothing on the ltsp clients, even the logout doesn't work. Only "lock screen" works. And the "guest session" again just locks the screen.
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10:39
<ogra>
alkisg, yes, i'm p to my ears in patching that stuff atm
10:39
*up
10:39
<alkisg>
ouch, I'd better shut up then! :)
10:40* ogra just uploaded a patch to gnome-panel to hide shutdown
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10:41
<ogra>
patches for the applet to hide the guest session, shutdown and reboot are uploaded as well and wait for the maintainer to accept them and i'm currently in a heavy discussion with him about the logout piece
10:41
since that relies on gdm which we dont use in ltsp
10:41
<alkisg>
The system > logout works though
10:41
Ah, I see, his code needs ltsp awareness
10:42
<nubae>
ogra: thought that was already present in hardy
10:42
<ogra>
nope
10:42
hardy used the custom ubuntu dialog and fusa ddnt have logout/shutdown/reboot
10:42
<nubae>
ah, k thats it
10:43
<ogra>
with the upstream change of splitting the logout int two dialogs ubuntu decided to rather go with a patched fusa applet
10:44
<warren>
pscheie: tried the latest ldm build? there is a weird cosmetic issue
10:44
pscheie: bottom of the screen has a line of light blue that doesn't match the rest of the background
10:44
pscheie: it is either an artwork bug, or a ldm bu
10:44
bug
10:45
<ogra>
warren, btw i have focus in the input field by defaults
10:45
<pscheie>
no, I haven't yet, going to try tonight...or perhaps not if you've already found a bug
10:45
<warren>
ogra: that was fixed by ryan52
10:45
ogra: it was broken by ryan52
10:45
<ogra>
warren, no
10:45
<warren>
ogra: the broken didn't hit upstream
10:45
<ogra>
i didnt update ldm since thursday or so
10:46
ah
10:46
it was fedora sepcific, i see :)
10:53
<alkisg>
ogra, success!!! I killed the ldm script, I exported TEXTDOMAIN=ldm and TEXTDOMAINDIR=/usr/share/locale, then run the ldm script and then... Greek at last!!! :D
10:56
<ogra>
ok, so we need these two variables added ?
10:57
<alkisg>
I think so, I also see them on the ltsp-build-client script
10:58
But I think it would be better if the ldm code called the low level function (gnu_texttext_selecttextdomain or what's its name). Anyway, if it works this way, it's ok by me!!! :)
11:00
<ogra>
well, i need a proper fix, but the loout stuff is hoging my day today
11:00
*hogging
11:01
<alkisg>
ogra, I think gnu gettext looks (1) for previous C function calls that selected a text domain, or (2) at the environment variables TEXTDOMAIN etc. So it *is* a proper fix, just not a C-based one... :P
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11:37
<alkisg>
ogra, I'm searching for a proper fix. I inserted a "/bin/sh" in the ldm script just before it calls the ldm program. And the problem is that there's no LANG environment variable.
11:38
(even though LANG is properly defined if I logon to the client)
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11:59
<johnny>
alkisg, what is /etc/locales or whatever it is on ubuntu say?
11:59
<ogra>
/etc/default/locales
12:00
*locale
12:00
<alkisg>
johnny, the problem is in the init scripts. If I run ldm after logging in, it runs OK. But some environment variables are missing when the ldm script is called in the boot process...
12:01
The problem is that I don't know enough about the linux boot process to debug this! Still trying, though...
12:02
There isn't any /etc/default/locale!!!
12:02
johnny, I'll put it there manually and test again, thanks!
12:09
Failure... :( I put it there but ldm still shows English...
12:11
<ogra>
did you copy the one from your server into the chroot ?
12:11
<alkisg>
ogra, yes
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12:13
<ogra>
alkisg, oh, sorry i was wrong it sould be /etc/environment
12:13
thats parsed on boot
12:13
<johnny>
sbalneav, http://who-t.blogspot.com/2008/10/device-properties-have-landed.html
12:14
<ogra>
alkisg, ah, and i got the error, the initscript supposed to parse it isnt enabled in ltsp-build-client
12:14
<alkisg>
file /etc/environment was OK in the chroot, same as in the server
12:14
heh, thanks, you saved me hours of debugging! :)
12:14
which one is it?
12:16
<ogra>
cdonsole-screen.sh needs to be added to RCS_WHITELIST in the 000-basic-configuration plugin
12:17
so /etc/rcS.d/S90console-screen.sh persists
12:17
that will set locale, console keymap and console font correctly
12:17
i'll try a build with that fix later today
12:17
<alkisg>
wow, 3 things fixed!!! :) Let me try it...
12:17
ogra, thanks a lot!
12:17
<ogra>
well, lets see if it helps on the gui level as well
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12:21
<alkisg>
ogra, (because ltsp-client takes a lot of time so I'd better get it right on the first time), the script name is console-screen.kbd.sh ?
12:22
/ltsp-client/ltsp-build-client
12:22
<ogra>
no
12:22
S90console-screen.sh
12:22
<alkisg>
I couldn't find console-screen.sh!
12:22
ah, ok
12:22
<ogra>
probably .kbd too, i will have to check that
12:22
<alkisg>
So, RCS_WHITELIST="console-screen.kbd.sh mountkernfs.sh mountdevsubfs.sh hostname.sh loopback udev module-init-tools procps.sh etc-setserial ltsp-client-setup setserial S90console-screen.sh"
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12:23* ogra goes preparing dinner ... back later
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13:30
<ogra>
alkisg, without S90
13:30
<alkisg>
ogra, thanks, I'll look at it in a little while, I got sth to do right now.
13:30* ogra too :)
13:30
<ogra>
bt just taking a break from the kitchen
13:37
<Lns>
Hey all - how can I remove "language" and "sessions" from the LDM Options menu?
13:39
<stgraber>
ogra: italc ? :)
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13:51
<warren>
pscheie: http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/ltsp/rc1/i686/
13:53
pscheie: I have comments on your announcement text
13:54
pscheie: but I have to drive now
13:54
bbl
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14:58
<alkisg>
ogra, no luck. I put RCS_WHITELIST="console-screen.kbd.sh mountkernfs.sh mountdevsubfs.sh hostname.sh loopback udev module-init-tools procps.sh etc-setserial ltsp-client-setup setserial console-screen.sh" and run ltsp-build-client, but nothing changed. /etc/default/locale again doesn't exist.
14:58
<ogra>
as i said above you want /etc/environment
14:59
<alkisg>
yeah, but /etc/environment was OK from the beginning, even from hardy
14:59
<ogra>
right but its settings arent applied
15:00
<alkisg>
I see... but still no Greek on ldm, and no correct fonts on console
15:00
I didn't see any change...
15:01
I'll try again tomorrow. G'night! :)
15:04
<vagrantc>
alkisg: worst case, try setting LANG in lts.conf
15:04
i applied a patch to the debian packaging for ldm that actually sources /etc/default/locale from ldm ... if ubuntu's is in /etc/environment, might want a correlary patch
15:04
from the ldm screen script, that is
15:04
<alkisg>
vagrantc, I'll try tomorrow, because lts.conf doesn't get transferred in virtualbox (the binary tftp thing we talked some months ago)
15:05
<vagrantc>
ah
15:05
alkisg: it's been a while, but the greek translation was definitely working with debian sid
15:05
<alkisg>
vagrantc, so if I copy /etc/environment to /etc/default/locale you think it might work?
15:06
<vagrantc>
alkisg: no, i don't think ubuntu has that patch
15:06
<alkisg>
vagrantc, I did get it to work in intrepid, by running ldm from the command line instead of the init scripts
15:06
<vagrantc>
alkisg: patch the screen script to source /etc/environment...
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15:06
<alkisg>
ok, that's simple enough even for me! :) I'll try, thanks
15:07
<ogra>
vagrantc, well, console-setup.sh should set it
15:07
but i dont actually have the time to look at ldm now
15:07
<stgraber>
ogra: have you been able to fix gnome-panel and fusa ?
15:07
<ogra>
stgraber, still discussing teh final fix for logout with tedg :/
15:07
but i'm just signng italc while we talk
15:08
i pointed him to your bug again
15:08
but he didnt react
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15:09
<ogra>
italc uploaded
15:09
<stgraber>
ogra: cool
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15:30
<MRH2>
hi local apps looks interesting but am i right in thinking that it is very much beta? In particular for firefox - audio (flash videos for example) and printing
15:31
<johnny>
yes
15:31
no release includes it yet
15:31
the next ubuntu will
15:31
but it will still require some manual steps
15:31
same on fedora
15:32
<MRH2>
ok cool
15:32
<--wondering how audio is going to work
15:32
<ogra>
next debian too
15:32
but only the infrastructure yet
15:32
you need to do a lot manual work
15:33
<johnny>
audio works automatically i imagine
15:33
<ogra>
audio will work through the network like it does from the server to the client but simply use localhost (i.e. the lo interface)
15:33
<johnny>
ogra? alot of manual work?
15:33
i thought it was twiddling with .desktop files
15:33
<ogra>
it doesnt yet
15:34
<johnny>
i mean.. that is the manual work required
15:34
<ogra>
you need to twiddle atm
15:34
yeah
15:34
<johnny>
what else?
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15:34
<ogra>
wll, and make sure the app is installed in the image/chroot/nfs-mount/whatever-your-distro-uses
15:34
and all the bits and pieces your users might want
15:35
<johnny>
nfs ? i thought it was sshfs?
15:35
<MRH2>
yeah but the client needs it in the image
15:35
<johnny>
MRH2, sshfs is going to be used iirc
15:35
<main2frame>
hi...has anybody had any experience with VXL terminals? www.vxl.net
15:36
<ogra>
johnny, nfs-mount == chroot
15:36
"make sure the app is installed in the nfs-mount"
15:37
<johnny>
ubuntu doesn't use nfs.. you're confusing me :)
15:37
i thought i'd just sshfs it :)
15:37
<ogra>
sshfs is used for the homedir
15:37
<johnny>
so.. will it automatically mount the nfs ?
15:37
if you turn on localdev ?
15:38
<ogra>
no
15:38
sshfs
15:38
<johnny>
if all i use is firefox and flash.. how bad would it be to just put it in the nbd ?
15:38
<ogra>
or nfs
15:38
:P
15:38
<MRH2>
lol
15:38
<ogra>
thats what you have to do, yes
15:38
you install firefox in your nbd image *or your nfs export*
15:40
if you log in and localapps are enabled, ldm will do a sshfs mount of your homedir from the server
15:42
<MRH2>
so audio will access local device taking precedence over audio coming from the server - assume audio volume on the desktop won't work (which is ok I suppose)
15:42
audio controls on the desktop
15:42
<ogra>
no, pulse is able to assemble multiple streams
15:43
the volume contol of eh desktop attaches to the pulse server on the client, so you adjust the master volume of the clinet pulseaudio, no matter where the audio stream comes from
15:43
<MRH2>
that's good stuff
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15:45
<MRH2>
how is printing going to work?
15:45
<ogra>
yu will need to install cups in the chroot
15:45
<Gadi>
MRH2: you install cups in the chroot and it will be a client to the server
15:46
<ogra>
which is a silly setup :P
15:46
lots of room for improvement here
15:46
<Gadi>
its only silly if you have time to devote to changing it :P
15:47
<ogra>
i.e. you wouldnt want your printjobs being shoved through the net and back if your printer runs locally on the same client
15:47
<Gadi>
I would if it meant I could spool
15:47
:)
15:47
<ogra>
pfft, spooling is overrated
15:47
<Gadi>
lol
15:47
anyway, gotta run
15:47
<ogra>
:)
15:47
<Gadi>
cheers
15:47
<ogra>
ciao
15:48
<MRH2>
thnks
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15:49
<MRH2>
ok i think i get how that would work in practice
15:49
it doesn;t sound that far off being good to go
15:50
<ogra>
well, in the proper implementation you just install firefox in the chroot and are done, your users will automatically get the local FF
15:50
without any manual fiddling, .desktop file creation and so on
15:51
its 80% there
15:52
but the last 20% make it cool ;)
15:52
<MRH2>
:)
15:53
local apps like this are v cool even if you have to update your chroot more often
15:55
thanks ogra I have to get going now
15:55
<ogra>
ciao
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17:25
<ogra>
vagrantc, for line in $(cat /etc/environment); do export $line;done ... how about that for ldm's screen.d file ?
17:26
<vagrantc>
ogra: you'd have to do a while read trick ...
17:26
<ogra>
why is that ?
17:26
<vagrantc>
ogra: but debian doesn't really use /etc/environment
17:26
<ogra>
oh
17:27
<vagrantc>
ogra: there's no spaces in the format anywhere?
17:27
<ogra>
ogra@osiris:~/Devel/packages$ for line in $(cat /etc/environment); do echo $line;done
17:27
PATH="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games"
17:27
LANGUAGE="de_DE:de:en_GB:en"
17:27
LANG="de_DE.UTF-8"
17:28
shoudl work with export
17:28
<vagrantc>
sure.
17:28
as long as there's no possibility of spaces.
17:28
<ogra>
we could parse /etc/default/locale first
17:28
and then /etc/environment
17:29
so /etc/environment would override if the LANG and LANGUAGE vals are in there
17:29
<vagrantc>
ogra: i have a patch to source /etc/default/locale
17:29
<ogra>
warren, where does fedora set LANG ?
17:29
<vagrantc>
ogra: haven't applied upstream because it probably shouldn't have to be done.
17:29
<ogra>
well, to get LANG set we need to do something
17:29
<vagrantc>
ogra: and it probably should be done in the meta-screen script.
17:30
rather than each individual screen script
17:30
<ogra>
or in the initscript
17:30
ltsp-client-setup seems appropriate
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17:42
<ogra>
vagrantc, well, looking at the code of gdm and kdm they both source /etc/environment on thier own
17:42
*their
17:42
in the initscript
17:45
<vagrantc>
ogra: we'd have to run it from ltsp-(client)core
17:45
er, source it
17:45
<ogra>
why not from setup ?
17:45
<vagrantc>
because the screen scripts aren't run there? :P
17:46
<ltsppbot>
"ogra" pasted "gdm initscript snippet" (7 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/31
17:46
<ogra>
seems thats what gdm in ubuntu/debian does
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17:46
<ogra>
but well, if it helps, sourceing from -core is fine with me
17:46
<vagrantc>
ogra: seems reasonable to me.
17:46
although i'd use -f instead of -r
17:47
<ogra>
i'd just like to know where fedora differs
17:47
but -f doesnt mean you can read it
17:47
<vagrantc>
fedora doesn't even really run it as an initscript
17:48
i suppose not ...
17:48
but -r doesn't work if it's a directory
17:48
<johnny>
fedora doesn't use ltsp-client-core or setup. they use ltsp-client-launch
17:48* ogra prefers -r
17:49
<vagrantc>
ogra: though, root should be able to read everything
17:49
initscripts are run as root
17:49
<ogra>
johnny, well, ubuntu currently uses its own script anyway, but i suppose stgraber wants to change that in the future
17:49
hm, valid point
17:49
<nubae>
Lns: kudos on ubuntu ltsp wiki... looks great now
17:50
<johnny>
the only people who uses an unmodified ltsp-client-setup or core is.. guess who..
17:50
<Lns>
nubae: hey thanks
17:50
<johnny>
opensuse!
17:50
<ogra>
qqq
17:50
<cliebow>
nubae, got a url?
17:50
<ogra>
grrr
17:50
<Lns>
I'm definitely not done with it
17:50* ogra curses compiz focus handling
17:50
<nubae>
http://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
17:50
<cliebow>
;-
17:50
<ogra>
GEEZ !
17:51
you added pics !
17:51
<cliebow>
heh
17:51
<ogra>
sweet
17:51* Lns wishes he knew how to center pics in the wiki
17:51
<vagrantc>
actually, my last upload to debian uses ltsp-client-* init scripts unmodified
17:52
<cliebow>
gotta love the lil penguins
17:52
<Lns>
I'm working on putting standard "tags" at the top of each page to distinguish what version it's intended for
17:52
<nubae>
hehe and the one big one
17:52
<Lns>
and then a 'template' type page to cut/paste for adding new pages
17:52
I just hope that penguin wasn't copyrighted ;)
17:52
<ogra>
Lns, could you put QuickInstall at the very top ? apart from that i'm thrilled
17:52
<Lns>
ogra: np
17:52
<ogra>
:D
17:52
<Lns>
thanks
17:53
<nubae>
its the best looking wiki I've seen on ubuntu yet...
17:53
<ogra>
http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5 might also be worth a link
17:54
<Lns>
nubae: well like i said i'm not done yet =)
17:54
ogra: k
17:54
<ogra>
Lns, something like "ltsp5 history"
17:55
ther must also be a MueCow doc somewhere on th ltsp wiki decribing the basics
17:55* ogra is sad the story about the name isnt logged anywhere
17:56
<Lns>
nubae: how's the IRC log going?
17:56
<ogra>
but neither sbalneav nor jammcq have ever put that online i guess
17:56
<vagrantc>
there's a MueKow page, possibly even linked to from the Ltsp5 page
17:57
<nubae>
well its up... I'm still waiting for the archived logs from sbalneav and then I can put those up to, but since the 9th everything is logged
17:57
<cliebow>
where...
17:57
<warren>
ogra: /etc/sysconfig/i18n LANG is set from there
17:57
<nubae>
yeah I've seen that too
17:57
<Lns>
nubae: nice
17:57
<warren>
ogra: I don't know where it happens
17:57
<ogra>
vagrantc, but without the naming story
17:57
<nubae>
right
17:57
so enlighten us, what is the naming story?
17:57
<ogra>
warren, well, sourcing it from the initscript might suffice if LANG is set there
17:57
<nubae>
:D
17:58* Lns sits down with some popcorn for the story
17:58
<warren>
ogra: from which script?
17:59
<ogra>
warren, ltsp-client-core
17:59
which i just heard you dont use
17:59
warren, the idea was to put something like gdm has into the initscript that executes screen.d
18:01
<ltsppbot>
"ogra" pasted "initscript proposal" (10 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/32
18:01
<ogra>
warren, ^^^ something like that
18:02
but if you dont use the default initscript anyway we wont have to care i guess
18:03
<warren>
yes, don't need to include my sysconfig path
18:03
I think it is already set by something else
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18:21
<johnny>
ogra, ask cyberorg
18:21
he uses the same
18:21
gentoo's init scripts are much different, so it wouldn't be much use to me
18:22
<ogra>
johnny, to late, added it to ubuntus initscript already
18:25
<vagrantc>
ogra: i'd be happy to commit upstream ...
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18:25
<Lns>
ogra: how do you get notification for editing a wiki page?
18:25
I'd like to get added to the main page if possible
18:27
<ltsppbot>
"gra" pasted "ubuntu initscript debdiff" (18 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/33
18:27
<ogra>
bah
18:27
swallowed my o ... bad bot
18:27
ooo
18:27
o
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18:27
<ogra>
vagrantc, ^^
18:27
<vagrantc>
ogra: i'd actually put it above ltsp-init-common, just in case you get the freak setup where some terminals should be in one language and some in another
18:28
ogra: then they can be set from lts.conf
18:28
<ogra>
well, its like tha in ubuntu now, people will be happy to have translations at all :P
18:29
do it better upstream and jaunty can pull that then
18:29
<vagrantc>
ogra: sure. i'll commit upstream.
18:29
not *hugely* better, just tiny fixes :)
18:29* ogra doesnt waste a version number :)
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18:29
<ogra>
*doesnt want to
18:30
i'm really starting to feel my 14h day
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18:30* vagrantc wonders when we'll run out of version numbers
18:30
<ogra>
at the 65535th version :)
18:31
<vagrantc>
heh
18:31* ogra thinks dpkg uses int
18:40
<ogra>
gah
18:40* ogra gets ldm translated, but not gtk
18:41
<ogra>
and i cant rely on the language packs being on the CD ... demned
18:41
*damned even
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19:08
<stgraber>
ogra: what's the result ? half-translated UI ?
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21:03
<X0d_of_N0d>
Does anyone know the minimum hardware requirements for an ltsp5 thin client? I know it's too low to care, but I'm doing a presentation on ltsp and I'm having trouble finding the info
21:04
I was expecting it would be higher than 4.2
21:04
...
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21:26
<monteslu>
X0d_of_N0d, its a lot higher
21:26
though i can't tell you exactly what it is :)
21:27
<loather-work>
depends on what your requirements for the client-side are
21:27
e.g. do you need sound, local devices, local applications?
21:43
<X0d_of_N0d>
If I just wanted a basic dumb terminal
21:44
loather-work: any ideas?
21:46
<loather-work>
basic dumb terminal with just X, 1280x1024 display?
21:46
you could get away with just about anything with a 16MB+ video adapter, 64-128MB RAM, and a garden variety pentium-class CPU.
21:47
ppc603 or 604 would be ok too.
21:49
<X0d_of_N0d>
cool, thanx
21:50
...is there by chance a web site I could cite, or are you a dev or something?
21:50
<johnny>
the edubuntu handbook maybe?
21:50
or the new docs?
21:50
i don't know where the new docs are published
21:51
<loather-work>
X0d_of_N0d: nah, jsut been doing this a very long time :p
21:52
<X0d_of_N0d>
loather-work: cool, well thanks for the info
21:53
<loather-work>
welcome. how much are you looking to spend on terminals?
21:54
<X0d_of_N0d>
lol... I'm doing this to help other people. We've been running ltsp here for a few years (or so) now
21:55
My boss didn't really get the idea that we could go with dumb terminals...
21:55
so he went and ordered a bunch of $600 acer cubes... with core duos and stuff
21:56
yeah, stupid...
21:56
<vagrantc>
so you're trying to convince him to un-order them?
21:57
<X0d_of_N0d>
I'm hoping will go with something like the disklessworkstations.com 1400 series
21:57
no, they've been ordered for a while, I don't care about here... I'm doing the presentation for my local lug
22:04
<loather-work>
that reminds me. i need to call up disklessworkstations and bug them about an RMA.
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22:07
<X0d_of_N0d>
loather-work: you had problems?
22:08
<loather-work>
when you have ~100 terminals, a few are bound to develop problems.
22:08
i have a bunch of 1220s
22:08
they don't like heat.
22:08
<X0d_of_N0d>
oh, yeah...
22:09
<loather-work>
it makes them less than ideal for a warehouse environment (where i have a ton of them installed)
22:09
<X0d_of_N0d>
that's actually one of the place we were thinking about putting one or two... actually, on our manufacturing shop floor
22:10* johnny compiles 2.6.27 kernel
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22:11
<loather-work>
the ones i've found that deal with heat well are the norhtec microclient sr.
22:12
added benefit that they mount directly to a 100mm vesa flat panel.
22:13
<X0d_of_N0d>
yeah, our boss has some pretty crazy hardware requirements. he wants our thin clients to be able to use div with a res of 1600x1200
22:14
it's really easy to find something that supports reasonably good resolution, but finding dvi on a thin client that does that is a pain
22:15
hey, thanks for the info on the norhtec stuff, that's a pretty cool site
22:15
<loather-work>
ah yeah
22:16
the 1400 is probably what you're looking for then
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22:17
<X0d_of_N0d>
that $85 box is pretty sweet... I didn't know you could still buy a 486
22:19
<stgraber>
X0d_of_N0d: some atom based thing clients have a DVI port, we are also using some Wyse thin clients that have both VGA and DVI (but these are quite expensive)
22:21
<X0d_of_N0d>
http://www.ciao.co.uk/AOpen_miniPC_MP945_VX__6486953
22:22
most of our systems are those
22:23
they work pretty well, we don't really have too many problems with them
22:24
but they're just WAY more than anyone needs, and WAY more expensive... and we'd really like to be fanless
22:24
etc
22:24
<loather-work>
fanless is nice
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22:26
<X0d_of_N0d>
yeah
22:26
hey, thanks for all the help
22:26
<loather-work>
no worries -- hopefully you can come up with a good system
22:26
let us know what you end up with
22:27
<X0d_of_N0d>
yeah, I think I'm going to ask my boss to order one of the disklessworkstations
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