IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Request log from specific day:

Channel log from 7 June 2011 (all times are UTC)

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02:13	Nick change: Abdul -> Guest43132
02:14	<Guest43132> hello Everyone i need ur help regarding LTSP
02:15	i have to customize the default login form for thin client
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02:25	<Hazy> can anyone help me???
02:25	<muppis> Just ask, don't ask to ask.
02:25	<Hazy> ok
02:26	i making my college project on ltsp implementation
02:26	so i want to change default login screen for client
02:26	how can i do it?
02:26	<muppis> http://bootpolish.net/home_ltsp_createacustomldmtheme
02:27	<Hazy> but its not regarding theme
02:28	i have to put my own sign up page there and from that i have create a user account
02:29	<dingz> Hazy: i don't think LDM does what you want
02:29	<muppis> So every who wants can just sign up and login without any help from admin?
02:30	<Hazy> no,user will entered all information and then it will be created after admin verification
02:31	actually i was creating it for college or school purpose
02:31	<muppis> Then you could have one client in kioskmode where student can apply the form and other client as normal.
02:32	<Hyperbyte> Or make one guest account, which users can use to fill in the form
02:33	<muppis> Or that, indeed.
02:33	Could be easier.
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02:33	<muppis> And form can applied from any client where student wants to.
02:34	<Hazy> and u knw my actual project was on biometric authentication at client side but i have tried alot to find a compatible finger print scanner but icouldn't
02:35	<muppis> Too insecure, for me.
02:35	<Hazy> how it is?
02:36	if we provide bio-metric authentication for every user
02:36	than how it can be insecure
02:36	<muppis> fingerprint reader can easy cheated by wine gum candy for example.
02:39	<Hazy> ohh....but it is for only school so that every student may have thier own data seprate
02:41	and for first login student should enter all information and also give finger image and than all data will store at server and next time student will have to just scan his finger
02:41	<muppis> I remember news about australian schools (say, you're not from there.. ;) used fingerprint to identify whom are in class and whom not. Kids(!) used wine gum to cheat.
02:43	<Hazy> no i am not from australia.....i am from india and these technologies are very less
02:43	so people dont knw about these
02:44	and this project is unique for them
02:44	<muppis> Someone come up the idea someday. Trust me.
02:44	<Hazy> so do you know any finger scanner which is compatible for ubuntu
02:46	u knw i was doing R & D since long time and now i have very less time in my hand coz i hv to submit my project in next week
02:46	<muppis> Haven't tested any, I just don't trust them.
02:47	Googling 'cheating fingerprints' gives working hint as first hit. >)
02:48	<Hazy> me too, and i couldn't find any compatible device that why i am making only that sign up page so that at last i'll be able to submit my project
02:48	can u give any suggestion in my project what i can do?
02:49	<Hyperbyte> We did, two of them.
02:49	Make a guest login, or plain user account called "guest" maybe even
02:50	Which doesn't start Gnome or anything, just an application with the login form
02:50	The login form you'll have to program yourself, could even be a bash script I guess, that e-mails the administrator with the request to make an account.
02:51	You'll have to get creative, either way, since LTSP doesn't support this.
02:51	<Hazy> yes tht kind of
02:52	<Hyperbyte> Imagine it like this: all your users get instructions that, when they want to use a computer, they have to login as "guest" with password "guest". They get a form, enter their details and e-mail address
02:52	And then when the administrator has made the account they get an e-mail and can login with their normal details.
02:52	<Hazy> so hows it possible for for thin client envirinment
02:52	<Hyperbyte> You'll have to program it.
02:53	I.e, make it yourself.
02:53	<Hazy> ok
02:53	<Hyperbyte> [414203.856595] non-matching-uid symlink following attempted in sticky world-writable directory by soffice.bin (fsuid 501 != 546)
02:53	<Hazy> so can we insert this program as new module in kernel
02:53	<Hyperbyte> Does this ring a bell with anyone? People have been complaining OpenOffice keeps hanging, dmesg is flooded with these things.
02:54	Hazy... as... a.... kernel module?
02:54	How about a simple script, or program on the harddrive?
02:57	<Hazy> i mean to say that i have pop up that program at client side automatically when client login as guest
02:57	???
02:59	<Hyperbyte> You'd have to set the default session to that program or script I think
02:59	Not sure how to with Ubuntu.
02:59	<Hazy> ur idea for script program is good i like it...thanks alot
03:00	i was very upset for this
03:01	now would u please tell me that for ubuntu how can i make a GUI program or script
03:01	?
03:03	<Hyperbyte> Do you have any experience with creating bash scripts?
03:03	Or any experience with scripting/programming whatsoever?
03:04	<Hazy> NO i dont have ......i have good experience on C,C++,J2EE,VB
03:05	<Hyperbyte> Okay
03:05	Well, you could do it in C, C++...
03:05	Whatever you like.
03:05	Or you could do something insanely primitive like this
03:05	http://secondary.recreatie-zorg.nl/jan/signup.sh.txt
03:05	Download this file somewhere, do mv signup.sh.txt signup.sh; chmod +x signup.sh
03:05	And then run ./signup.sh
03:05	As a demonstration.
03:06	You might be missing 'mail' command, plus you'd have to modify the script a little. But this would be one way.
03:06	<Hazy> ok
03:06	<Hyperbyte> Much better way would be with a C/C++ application that does this, preferably with a GUI, but I can't help you with that.
03:07	<Hazy> ok.....i was just asking about GUI
03:08	<Hyperbyte> Well, get coding. :) Or find someone who's already made something that suits your needs.
03:09	<Hazy> ok So for GUI i will refer to C++ and after this where i have to put so that it can start automatic when guest user login
03:09	?
03:09	<Hyperbyte> Or find some other creative way to accomplish your goals. :)
03:09	* alkisg would use `gnome-about-me` to change the guest info, and then gather that (and reset it on the next guest login)
03:09	<Hazy> i think it is best .... ::)
03:09	<alkisg> So the gui is ready, it's even translated to all the gnome languages
03:11	<Hyperbyte> :)
03:11	See, creativity at work there. ;-)
03:12	<Hazy> ohhh....for GNOME is there any compatiblity issue if i develop a GUI program by C++ ?
03:12	<Hyperbyte> ehm, are you used to coding GUI programs for Windows?
03:13	Or KDE, or?
03:13	<Hazy> of course not....
03:13	for GNOME or KDE
03:13	<Hyperbyte> Well, then compatibility issues with what?
03:14	But I thought alkisg's solution is pretty good actually.
03:14	:)
03:16	<Hazy> but actually i didnt get what alkisg's said
03:17	<alkisg> I suggested a method in which you use an existing GUI
03:17	You don't make your own
03:17	<Hazy> @Hyperbyte: would u explain me what alkisg's mean to say??
03:17	<alkisg> And then you collect the data that that GUI wrote
03:18	But anyway I don't think that's suitable for learning purposes
03:18	So. if I were you I'd develop a small GUI in python + (GTK or Qt)
03:18	<Hazy> @alkisg's: yes u r right .....
03:18	ok...
03:19	<alkisg> For GTK the UI designer is called glade
03:19	For Qt I think it's called qt-designer
03:19	<Hazy> and what about database ??
03:19	<alkisg> Start with that. Take it one step at a time.
03:19	Now if you prefer you can also make it a php app instead of a gtk/qt app
03:19	And show a web form to the user
03:20	So you'd use php+html instead of python+(gtk or qt)
03:21	Don't use C/C++ though, you'll see it complicates simple projects like yours
03:22	<Hazy> so which should be beter
03:22	?
03:22	<alkisg> Your choice
03:22	Do you plan on working with linux in the future?
03:23	<Hazy> yes
03:23	<alkisg> Then you'll find python handy
03:23	<Hazy> so what u suggest for me>
03:23	<alkisg> Which DE do you prefer? Gnome or KDE?
03:24	Nah anyway. Make it in php. This way students will be able to request an account even from their homes :D
03:25	<Hyperbyte> Hazy, if you want I could help you with the PHP development actually.
03:25	If it's not too much work.
03:25	<Hazy> but why not python?
03:25	<Hyperbyte> I've been coding hardly anything but PHP for the past three years or so.
03:26	<Hazy> ok
03:26	<Hyperbyte> Hazy, like alkisg said. It's your choice.
03:26	Make a list of the pro's and con's of each choice, take things like complexity, portability into account, and then get started. :)
03:27	<Hazy> ok....if want to develop it for Ubuntu so which will be beter?
03:27	<Hyperbyte> alkisg: what if I coded this, in PHP, how useful would it be to the community?
03:28	<alkisg> Hyperbyte: I think if coded properly, it could be very useful in schools
03:28	Students requesting their account names, and the sysadmin or teacher just approving them...
03:30	<Hazy> admin will approve them and for first time admin will create account for them
03:31	and what if Server admin want to keep all log history of Students
03:31	?
03:32	<Hyperbyte> What do you mean with "log history"?
03:33	<Hazy> i mean to say that, login time,web history
03:34	<Hyperbyte> For that you'd use a proxy server and /var/log/secure
03:34	alkisg, a webinterface that manages user accounts on Linux wouldn't be that hard actually
03:34	To code, in PHP.
03:34	<Hazy> how can i interact proxy server with our developed program
03:35	and what about Database System??
03:35	<Hyperbyte> Hazy: one question at a time man. :)
03:35	<alkisg> Hyperbyte: some of those exist already, but I think just a "sign up" page would be more useful
03:36	<Hyperbyte> alkisg, well, you'd want a sign up page for students, plus some interface where the administrator can manage accounts.
03:37	Else it's a bit dull I think.
03:37	<alkisg> Hyperbyte: maybe that raises security concerns though - I think I'd prefer it if php didn't have write access to my /etc/passwd
03:37	<Hyperbyte> alkisg, could be optional of course. The way I usually do this is via /etc/sudoers
03:38	<alkisg> I can only talk for schools - we do need lots of dull things that we don't have currently :)
03:38	<Hyperbyte> Give PHP access to only certain commands it needs, like useradd, usermod, userdel
03:38	<alkisg> Well, `useradd my-admin-account` would be more than enough for a hacker
03:39	I'd prefer it if the sysadmin UI didn't use the suid bit to do stuff
03:39	(or sudoers)
03:39	<Hyperbyte> I'd imagine doing it like this:
03:40	You have a GUI screen where you can edit user options, change settings, make new users (etc)
03:40	Which creates a backlog of su commands 'to be executed'
03:40	Then an admin can choose to do it manually, or set up sudoers and do it automatically
03:41	<Hazy> but server admin will manually create account for student
03:41	<Hyperbyte> So it's either cut & paste or set up sudoers.
03:41	Sounds reasonable, no?
03:42	<Hazy> sudoers?
03:42	??
03:42	<Hyperbyte> Hazy: man sudoers
03:43	<Hazy> ohh sorry,,,,got it
03:43	The sudoers policy module determines a user's sudo privileges.
03:43	thts it
03:44	dude what about Database?
03:44	<Hyperbyte> Hazy: what about it?
03:46	<Hazy> means where we have to store the student detail
03:46	<alkisg> Hyperbyte: not sure, it needs some more thinking, a lot of things can go wrong with user creation
03:50	<Hazy> what happen???
03:50	where are you guys??
03:55	going for lunch...see u later
03:56	<Hyperbyte> Hazy, be patient man. :P
03:56	I was having lunch too
03:56	Still am actually
04:03	alkisg, you've convinced me by the way. User management should be seperate tool, whatever people prefer.
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04:04	<Hyperbyte> I will want to add a little webinterface for admins though where they can get a list of all signups easily
04:04	Hey Da-Gavin. :)
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04:08	<alkisg> Hyperbyte: a web interface that helps sysadmins overview the account requests, that enables them to resolve conflicts (e.g. already existing username), and that exports a shell script would be awesome
04:10	<Hyperbyte> alkisg, okay.
04:10	How do you configure a signup user account to launch Firefox in Kiosk mode, and only Firefox in Kiosk mode?
04:11	So no Gnome panel and stuff?
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04:21	<Hazy> Hyperbyte: now have some more discussion....!!!
04:24	are you there?
04:31	Hyperbyte where are you?
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04:41	<Hyperbyte> Hazy, at work?
04:43	<Hazy> busy with some work??
04:45	<Hyperbyte> No Hazy, I'm -at- work!
04:46	I don't mind answering your questions, but you're gonna have to be patient.
04:49	<andygraybeal> HI HI HIHIHI
04:49	i am here to help!
04:49	<Hazy> ok...
04:49	<andygraybeal> but my knowledge isnot very helpful!
04:51	<Hyperbyte> Hey Andy. :)
04:53	Hazy, I'm investigating how much work it will be for me to make your signup script
04:53	<Hazy> ok
04:54	<sunscreen> how can you locked out all the other SCREEN_XX
04:54	in case some nosy rdesktop users starts trying get brave
04:55	<Hazy> Hyperbyte: then what do you conclude for it??
04:57	<Hyperbyte> Hazy, nothing yet.
04:57	sunscreen, easy - don't put them in lts.conf
04:57	<sunscreen> but they still get given the tty login screen
04:58	i want to give them go back to work.jpg
04:58	<Hyperbyte> Yeah, but they won't really be able to do anything with it.
04:58	<sunscreen> true
04:58	<Hyperbyte> As in... nothing
04:58	Unless they know the root password of the thin client chroot, but by default LTSP has none.
04:59	<sunscreen> true the only account is root which i guess you can nuke the passwd to once your happy with the client image
05:01	<Hyperbyte> Wait - I am talking about the root password on the client chroot right, not the server
05:01	So /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/passwd
05:02	And */shadow
05:02	<sunscreen> yea
05:02	<Hyperbyte> By default LTSP sets none, so unless you've manually done it, there still isn't one.
05:02	<sunscreen> but they wont have an account there either so thats cool
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05:03	<sunscreen> hang yeah the local ttys only login locally any way lol </getting baffled>
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05:12	<Hazy> Hyperbyte: is it possible to run our signup page in kiosks mode ?
05:12	<alkisg> Hyperbyte: no need to bind the php signup script with the kiosk mode. E.g. someone might sign up from his windows pc at home. Or they may login as guests and just launch firefox. Of course kiosk is also an option, but not the only one.
05:14	<Hazy> alkisg:but we are creating this signup page only for LAN network
05:15	<alkisg> Hazy: I'm talking with Hyperbyte for an implementation he wants to do
05:15	<Hazy> so no need for remote user
05:15	<alkisg> Not about your project
05:15	Hazy: So ignore anything I say that doesn't have "Hazy:" in front of it :)
05:15	<Hazy> ohh....i thought u r talking about my project
05:16	ok
05:17	<Hyperbyte> alkisg, I think I want nothing running from a signup page but the browser pointing to the signup page
05:17	*from a signup user
05:17	From a security standpoint.
05:18	<alkisg> Regardless, does it make any difference in your php implementation?
05:18	How the user launched his browser?
05:19	I mean that those are 2 completely separated scripts. (1) server side php script, (2) client side ltsp screen script
05:20	You can also make (2), but someone may want to provide his own implementation of (2)
05:20	<Hyperbyte> You were thinking about a screen script?
05:20	<alkisg> The kiosk mode is a screen script
05:20	I thought that's what you were thinking :)
05:20	<Hyperbyte> I was thinking about a seperate user account that handles it all
05:20	<alkisg> Me, I'd use a guest mode and point them to the server php script
05:21	<Hyperbyte> And launches a Firefox on the server, but conviently forgets all the rest.
05:21	<alkisg> You'd need lots of user accounts, at least one per pc
05:21	Or a temporary (guest again) user account
05:21	<Hyperbyte> How does guest mode work on LTSP actually?
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05:21	<alkisg> It's not a guest at all. It's a specific user.
05:21	<Hyperbyte> I thought so. How is it configured?
05:21	<alkisg> The difference is that the user doesn't type the password, it's stored in lts.conf
05:22	The sysadmin creates it. LTSP does nothing more than provide the username/password that it finds in lts.conf, to ssh
05:23	A real "guest login" like the ubuntu desktop has would be handy, but I don't think anyone has implemented that in ltsp yet (not that it would be difficult...)
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05:24	<Hyperbyte> mhm
05:24	[423118.775494] non-matching-uid symlink following attempted in sticky world-writable directory by soffice.bin (fsuid 501 != 1000)
05:25	Does that mean anything to you?
05:25	dmesg is full of those.
05:25	<alkisg> Nope.
05:25	Brb
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05:48	<Hazy> ??
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06:02	<Appiah> >_>
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06:09	<alkisg> (Just to write it down for the logs) Here's a method to netboot a computer that gPXE doesn't have support for, and of course that doesn't have PXE capable BIOS:
06:09	1) Boot the client with this CD: http://downloads.tuxfamily.org/netbootcd/4.01/NetbootCD-4.01.iso
06:09	3) Enter the following commands - put your LTSP server IP there:
06:09	$ server=10.160.31.10
06:09	$ tftp -g -r /ltsp/i386/vmlinuz $server
06:09	$ tftp -g -r /ltsp/i386/initrd.img $server
06:09	$ sudo kexec --initrd=initrd.img --append="ro initrd=initrd.img nbd_proxy=false nocompcache nbdroot=$server:2000" -l vmlinuz
06:09	$ sudo kexec -e
06:09	Of course one can modify the scripts inside the .iso so that he doesn't have to type those commands manually.
06:10	This method uses kexec, so it supports any card/arch that the linux kernel supports
06:10	Oh forgot this: 2) In the first menu, select "Start NetbootCD 4.01", and in the second menu, select "quit Quit to prompt (do not reboot)".
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06:18	<mgariepy> good morning everyone
06:18	<Hyperbyte> Hey hey hey!
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06:33	<Hazy> can any buddy tell me from where the login screen boot to the client screen?
06:37	Hyperbyte: where does module of login screen of LTSP reside ?
06:37	<robehend1> Hazy: are you talking about the LDM theme?
06:39	<Hazy> not exactly.....when we boot up our thin client then a default login screen comes...SO i want to put my own login screen instead of this.
06:40	<robehend1> yeah, that'd be the LDM theme. You can customize it to a point. instructions can be found https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LDMThemeChange
06:40	<Hazy> ok i'll go through thn i backk to you
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06:52	<Hazy> robehendl: i have gone through this....but i want to change the functionality such as i would like develop a signup page which ask user to etner some details like:Name,Email,phone,etc...And this signup page gives these detail to the server and then server create another user account based on these deatils...this senario based on school environment in which student may need to login for their lab session and this process is for new user
06:53	??...!!!
06:55	<pmatulis> Hazy: why not create user accounts in advance?
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06:56	<Gnoze5> yuo
06:57	<Hazy> because i have to save all the detail of student on server
06:58	it is just similar to email signup
06:58	<pmatulis> Hazy: sounds like a lot of pain IMO
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07:01	<Hazy> why so??
07:01	it is for big LAN network in school or college
07:02	so according to what should i do?? any suggestion???
07:02	*according to you
07:03	<dingz> Hazy: when students sign up for school, give them an account
07:03	<Hazy> pmatulis:..!!
07:03	<dingz> maybe the secretary can do it :-)
07:03	just add a cool report feature to your database
07:04	and then maybe he/she will be happy to have a "master" database for each pupil/staff-member
07:05	<Hyperbyte> Hazy, if you create the user accounts automatically, how are you ever going to control users?
07:05	How are you every going to catch someone who abuses your system? And how are you going to maintain security?
07:05	If everyone can just walk in and create an account, or if student John can create an account in the name of student Alice... doesn't seem very desirable.
07:06	<dingz> Hyperbyte: afair, he did want to have an admin "OK" button
07:06	otherwise you don't need accounts
07:06	<Hyperbyte> That's what I thought as well yeah
07:07	But he said "then server creates another user account"
07:07	This is new to me
07:10	<Hazy> guys i want to make a program which request for client to enter detail and it will have all functionality to maintain the accounts,and checking existing account and that another part thati would like to discuss later but first tell me from where i can remove the default screen...its more important for now????
07:11	<alkisg> I think the most important thing for now is to decide HOW are you going to implement this
07:11	With php? Then look at the kiosk mode in the LTSP docs
07:11	<Hazy> where i put new one???
07:13	ok....but how to go for ltsp Kiosk mode from existing LTSP.
07:13	<alkisg> Read the docs :)
07:14	<Hazy> give me link if u have..!!
07:14	<alkisg> It's on the channel topic
07:14	Write /topic if you don't see it
07:15	To create a new "default screen", you put your script to /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/
07:15	That's where the "ldm" and the "kiosk" screens are
07:15	But first decide how are you going to implement this
07:16	If you'll go with php, then you don't need any of that. Focus on php/mysql, and leave the "default screen" for the end
07:18	<Hazy> what kind of these files in this dir: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/
07:18	is these are script
07:18	<alkisg> Executable files of any kind
07:18	<Hazy> file
07:19	then which one is for default login screen??
07:19	<Gnoze5> alkisg is this: http://meadvillelibrary.org/os/doku.php?id=customizing_ubuntu_lucid_for_public_computing a valid way of creating accounts based on templates?
07:20	the whole copy home dir seems a little hacky
07:20	<alkisg> Hazy: ldm is the default login screen
07:20	<Hazy> sure.??
07:20	so this ldm made by which platform??
07:21	and if make a script program then here i have to put my developed sript??
07:22	alkisg:*and if i make a script program then here i have to put my developed sript??
07:22	<alkisg> Hazy: run these commands:
07:22	apt-get source ltsp
07:22	<Hazy> then
07:22	<alkisg> apt-get source ldm
07:23	Then you'll have the sources for ldm to see how it's made
07:23	After 1-2 weeks you'll realize that we're trying to help you by answering what you NEED instead of what you ASK
07:23	<Hazy> should i use VIM to see the source of ldm?
07:24	<dingz> Hazy: it doesn't work with vim, you need to install emacs
07:24	<alkisg> So, for the last time, start by making a php/mysql application that's not related to ltsp at all
07:24	That's all from me.
07:24	<dingz> or better yet: eclipse duck
07:24	<Hyperbyte> Hazy, please stop for a second. Stop thinking, stop typing, and actually -read- what Alkis and I are trying to tell you.
07:24	<Hazy> ok
07:24	<Hyperbyte> The way you are trying to do this, is VERY, and by this we mean INSANELY complicated.
07:25	Which means that unless you're a very skilled Linux programmer, who knows everything there is to know about LTSP, you're not going to succeed at this.
07:26	What you need to do first, is consider your options.
07:27	<Hazy> so will be beter for me to go for script program that we discuss previously?
07:27	<Hyperbyte> Hazy, are you familiar with PHP?
07:27	<Hazy> no
07:28	<Hyperbyte> Okay. Are you familiar with creating GUI applications for Linux?
07:28	<Hazy> yup using C++...
07:28	<pmatulis> Hazy: you ask what's better? it will be better to do what 95% of people do. and that's create accounts and get out of the way
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07:29	<Hyperbyte> Hazy, okay, start from there. You have C++ knowledge.
07:29	Now forget about LTSP for a while.
07:29	<Hazy> ok....
07:29	<Hyperbyte> You want to create a program that asks a user for a preferred username, password, their name, etc...
07:29	<Hazy> yes
07:30	<Hyperbyte> Basically your entire signup program.
07:30	<Hazy> yes
07:30	<Hyperbyte> How long would this take you, to create in C++?
07:30	<Hazy> maybe one our
07:30	maybe one hour
07:30	<Hyperbyte> Okay... and then the program just asks for the data, and e-mails it to someone who creates the account?
07:31	<Hazy> yes
07:31	<Hyperbyte> Now what if you had a button on the LDM screen, which says "Login as Guest", and that launches your program
07:31	Would that be what you're looking for?
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07:33	<Hazy> now client would enter details similar to email account and got a login id and password
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07:33	<Hazy> and server will save all details of client
07:34	<Hyperbyte> No, wait!
07:34	Answer my question first
07:34	Now what if you had a button on the LDM screen, which says "Login as Guest", and that launches your program... would that be what you're looking for?
07:34	<Hazy> yes
07:34	<Hyperbyte> Okay. I can help you with that.
07:35	<Hazy> so what i have to do for it
07:36	<Hyperbyte> Well, the first step is writing your program.
07:36	<Hazy> and i have to submit this project after 6 days
07:36	<Hyperbyte> Launching it via LTSP is the easy part.
07:36	Ever used glibc or GTK with C++?
07:37	<Hazy> no i may use it if you say
07:37	<Hyperbyte> Okay.
07:37	<Hazy> no but i may use it if you say
07:37	<Hyperbyte> You said it takes you one hour to create the program
07:37	Get started. :)
07:38	Requirements: I have to be able to start it in Gnome.
07:38	I have to be able to open a Gnome terminal, type ./your_program
07:38	And then it starts.
07:38	If you're done, I'll help you with getting it to work with LTSP.
07:39	Mind you though, I'm gone soon, and have meetings tonight, then more work... so I'll probably be here again tomorrow
07:39	But if you leave messages, I'll read.
07:40	<Hazy> ok...when i'll be finish i'll leave a message for u
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08:12	<Gnoze5> Hyperbyte you still around?
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08:25	<andygraybeal> i'm making patch cables, making patch cables, making patch cables, hooray.
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08:27	<Gnoze5> hm what gconf key do i need to change if i want to disable the appearance preferences panel?
08:33	<andygraybeal> heat shrink rules
08:33	i didn't know you could remove panels from the menu :)
08:33	i thought just settings inside the panels
08:33	but i hve no idea
08:34	<Gnoze5> essentially
08:34	I want the user to be able to change background but not theme and fonts etc
08:35	<andygraybeal> Gnoze5, what is yuor user base? business? school? kiosk?
08:36	<Gnoze5> we have more than one type of user base
08:36	kiosk no
08:36	but school business third sector
08:36	<andygraybeal> interesting
08:36	so your a company with clients?
08:37	<Gnoze5> yes
08:37	and one thing that makes people happy and doesnt hrt anyone is allowing them to change their background
08:37	changing their theme and font settings though...
08:38	<andygraybeal> hehehehe
08:38	<Gnoze5> so i just wanted a way to disable the appearance preferences app from the desktop right click menu
08:39	and i assume that setting is somewhere in nautilus
08:39	but i cant find it
08:39	lol
08:40	<abeehc> my users can still change that stuff.. panel customization tends to cause more trouble for me;
08:41	i assume, you could fiddle with the gnome-appearence-properties make it unavailable
08:42	<Gnoze5> the panel im locking down
08:44	hm
08:44	i found it
08:46	well actually no
08:46	show desktop is to drastic to remove
08:46	lol
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08:53	<Gnoze5> what i really want is do disable the "effects" "fonts" and "themes" tabs of the appearance preferences
08:53	and leave just background settings
08:54	i guess ill just set a mandatory theme, font and extras
08:54	with gconf and leave it at that
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09:01	<robehend1> Gnoze5: thats what I ended up doing, with my students. Though i did go in and change the background monthly, so that they always had something new coming up. seemed to work
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09:27	<Gnoze5> argh im setting clearlooks as mandatory with sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/interface/gtk_theme "Clearlooks"
09:28	still i cant change my theme
09:29	*I am able to change the theme to something else
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09:46	<Gnoze5> ok solved
09:46	what about the visual effectsd
09:46	<robehend1> how so?
09:47	<Gnoze5> cant seem to find a key for that
09:47	i want to make sure they stay disabled
09:49	<robehend1> Gnoze5: how did you force the theme?
09:51	<andygraybeal> yea, yea, you if you feel up for this you shuold document it on the ltsp ubuntu site :)
09:56	<abeehc> !compiz
09:57	"disable-compiz" :: To disable compiz, try: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
09:58	<Gnoze5> abeehc if i disable compiz that menu will stop popping up?
09:58	robehend1 i forced the theme using gconftool setting mandatory source
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10:20	<abeehc> no, doesn't seem to disable any menus
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10:21	<Gnoze5> yeah i just tried
10:21	and it does allow me to set visual effects
10:21	hmm
10:21	anyway I have to go
10:21	thanks
10:21	thanks :)
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10:41	<hughessd> Hi all, I just got a HP 5565 thin client to add to my network. after switching to pxe boot, it seemed to work fine, however, the resolution is stuck at 800x600. I've edited the lts.conf in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/ to have X_MODE_0 explicitly set and also tried XRANDR_DISABLE = True
10:42	Neither of which worked. Does anyone have any other ideas to try?
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10:48	<ball> hello highvoltage
10:48	...and hughessd
10:49	<highvoltage> hi ball
10:50	<dead_root> hughessd are you using dvi or vga output on the client
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11:04	<ball> brb
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11:12	<hughessd> the client has dvi output
11:12	sorry for the delay
11:13	<dead_root> and are you using a strait dvi cable or a dvi to vga adapter?
11:16	<hughessd> straight cable
11:17	but ive tried a few different monitors and an adapter
11:17	<dead_root> weird, i have usually only seen that caused by a dvi/vga adapter
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11:30	<hughessd> Do I need to do a ltsp-build-client after changing lts.conf? maybe that's why the changes aren't being pulled into the client....
11:30	<pmatulis> Hyperbyte: it's been 4 hrs. Hazy is late
11:32	<dead_root> u shouldn't have to hughessd
11:33	<hughessd> yeah, that's what I thought. (since they moved it out of /opt/ltsp/i386... to /var/lib/tftpboot/....).
11:34	it's strange because the thinclient manual says it supports up to 2048x1536
11:35	but when I boot in and go to System>Pref>Monitors, only 800x600 is available. which is the default, so it's like XRANDR isn't autodetecting anything, but when I turn it off and explicitly set it, nothing else is available either...
11:40	<Gadi> hughessd: what is the output of xrandr from a terminal?
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11:41	<hughessd> Xlib: extension "RANDR" missing on display "localhost:20.0"
11:41	RandR extension missing
11:41	...
11:42	hah
11:42	<Gadi> ah, instead do:
11:42	ltsp-localapps xterm
11:42	then xrandr in the xterm
11:43	<hughessd> hm. gadi, thanks for the tip.
11:43	alkisg_web (2eb038d9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.176.56.217) joined #ltsp.
11:43	<hughessd> but im actually out of the office right now. and not next to the client.
11:43	<Gadi> ah
11:43	<hughessd> i can ssh in and try things though....
11:43	<Gadi> sometimes the driver will enable phantom outputs which screws up the available modes
11:43	<hughessd> i will be heading back to the office in a few hours and will try it then though.
11:44	ah ok
11:44	<Gadi> do you know the IP of the thin client?
11:44	<hughessd> not off the top of my head.
11:44	they're all getting IPs dynamically
11:44	the rest of the network is static
11:45	and on a different subnet too
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11:45	<Gadi> in a terminal, type: echo $LTSP_CLIENT
11:46	oh, actually, that won't work if you are ssh'd in
11:46	in fact, you won't know if youve fixed the res either, eh?
11:46	<hughessd> yeah, haha
11:47	sorry that im not ready to fully implement your suggestion....
11:47	but i will let you know how it goes when i get to in a bit
11:47	<alkisg_web> Setting the client to autologin will let him see from ssh if he fixed the mode :)
11:48	(as long as he knows the mac or hostname to enable autologin)
11:49	<hughessd> hi alkisg, good to see you again. I don't know the mac or hostname, unfortunately.
11:50	<dberkholz> try DISPLAY=:0 before some of those X commands, it might work
11:50	DISPLAY=:0 xrandr, e.g.
11:53	<hughessd> DISPLAY=:0 xrandr
11:53	No protocol specified
11:53	Can't open display :0
11:53	^-- that was the output
11:53	<mgariepy> you also need the Xauthority file
11:53	* alkisg_web suggests setting X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH in lts.conf for this client
11:54	<mgariepy> like : DISPLAY=:7 XAUTHORITY=$(ls -1 /var/run/ldm-xauth-*/Xauthority) xrandr
11:55	<alkisg_web> I don't think hughessd has a shell on the client, only on the server
11:55	<mgariepy> ha ok, my mistake then
11:55	<hughessd> that is correct, alkisg
11:55	but i am learning a lot from all this. thank you all very much.
11:55	<alkisg_web> If you have someone there to boot/reboot the client, you could fix it
11:55	netstat => see the ip, arp => get the mac
11:56	If not, well, do it when you get there :)
11:57	<hughessd> yeah, i'll be back in there in two hours or so.
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13:40	<Ghidorah> Does anyone know what the Attributes lists values in LTSP-Cluster is used for?
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14:57	<Pacifica> hi there. having a strange problem with ltspfs: usb sticks work beautifully on the thin clients but USB DVD drives no longer work
14:57	running ubuntu 10.04 server
14:57	<Hyperbyte> pmatulis, he's really late yes. :-) But then again I'm curious how he has experience coding Linux GUI's, yet has no experience with glibc or GTK
14:57	<Pacifica> 64bit with 32bit clients
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15:25	<Gnoze5> oh Hello
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15:40	<Hyperbyte> Hey Gnoze
15:41	You called? =)
15:41	<Gnoze5> earlier yeah
15:42	I was gonna ask you your opinion on user groups/templates and mass account creation
15:43	<Hyperbyte> Do you still need it? :P
15:43	Else I'm gonna punch out (= sleep)
15:43	<Gnoze5> well I dont "need" it but Im curious, I havent found any real clean ways to do those things
15:44	but i dont want to deprive you of sleep
15:44	<Hyperbyte> So what exactly do you want to know?
15:45	<Gnoze5> well ill give you an example, lets say a 30 user setup and theres 3 types of users
15:45	let say
15:45	teachers students and staff for simplicity sake
15:45	<Hyperbyte> Yessir.
15:46	<Gnoze5> anyway so for each of those 3 groups i want one templated experience
15:46	a teacher default desktop
15:46	a student and staff
15:46	by template i mean
15:46	students can only access a browser and office for example and cant change theiur background
15:46	etc etc
15:47	of course i could create each account a edit them one by one
15:47	so the real question is what is the best way to avoid that
15:47	to only have to configure each type of desktop once
15:47	<Hyperbyte> Hrm, so basically different mandatory gconf for everybody?
15:47	<Gnoze5> (of course there are common setting for each, but for that i can use gconf)
15:48	hm, well if that is even possible yeah
15:48	but i also mean look and feel
15:48	like having only one panel t the bottom (windows style) etc
15:48	<Hyperbyte> That's also accomplished via gconf
15:49	<Gnoze5> hm
15:49	<Hyperbyte> I actually have a very uncommon solution I think, but it works pretty well for our company
15:49	<Gnoze5> and that is?
15:49	<Hyperbyte> Every user has a softphone, and I don't want to have to configure it for everybody
15:49	Same with Thunderbird... everybody has mail, but I don't want to run around configuring all kinds of Thunderbird settings for everyone
15:50	Some settings, like GUI settings and proxy settings, which are the same for everyone, I do as mandatory gconf settings. This is the best solution, because Gnome actually disables the setting in the UI.
15:50	<Gnoze5> yeah i agree with that
15:50	even though i was playing around with theme and fonts
15:50	<Hyperbyte> For the rest, I have a script that runs everytime a user logs in. It populates their /home/ directory with the settings and configs I want.
15:51	<Gnoze5> and i found out that if you use the appearance preferences app even after a gtk theme or general metacity theme is set to mandatory and you pick another theme non defined stuff still changes
15:51	<Hyperbyte> For example, I have a file that on startup reads the Firefox config, removes all lines about proxy settings, and then adds the lines I want at the bottom.
15:52	Yeah, I think this is a bug in Gnome. Some mandatory settings about appearance you can still seem to change.
15:52	<Gnoze5> what about the actual aspect of the desktop, like panels
15:52	and menus
15:52	?
15:53	<Hyperbyte> Panels you can do via gconf
15:53	<Gnoze5> hm but what if i want different gui settings of reach type of user group?
15:54	<Hyperbyte> Well, you could filter all that with a startup script
15:54	Are you any good at bash scripting?
15:54	<Gnoze5> not myself personally but we do have people who are
15:54	but seems a very hacky solution
15:55	<Hyperbyte> It is very hacky.
15:55	<Gnoze5> another solution ive read was to create one account for each group
15:55	<Hyperbyte> But you wanted my opinion, not the best solution. =)
15:55	<Gnoze5> and then whenever you creazte a new account for the group you copy everything from hte home dir of the template
15:55	and just set permissions right
15:55	<Hyperbyte> This you could do as well.
15:55	It's just as hacky by the way.
15:55	<Gnoze5> yeah
15:55	i agree
15:55	lol
15:55	<Hyperbyte> I'm doing exactly the same thing, except I go over the config everytime someone logs in
15:56	Look at this for example
15:56	http://secondary.recreatie-zorg.nl/jan/setconfig-firefox.txt
15:56	That's my Firefox config script
15:56	It's ran everytime a user logs in
15:56	<Gnoze5> local btw
15:56	?
15:56	<Hyperbyte> Doesn't matter, since local/server share home dirs
15:56	I run it on the server.
15:56	<Gnoze5> netherlands..
15:56	<Hyperbyte> Oh
15:56	Heh, yes.
15:57	<Gnoze5> heh the printer
15:57	<Hyperbyte> Yeah
15:57	<Gnoze5> i havent gotten into that yet
15:57	its my next topic on the list
15:57	<Hyperbyte> Well, anyways, just to give an idea - this is how I enforce settings.
15:57	<Gnoze5> ok
15:57	<Hyperbyte> I do it via a startup script, so I can easily modify it.
15:57	<Gnoze5> thanks for the input
15:57	<Hyperbyte> I start the softphone via the same startup script
15:57	<Gnoze5> it sort of makes sense from the point of view of centralization
15:57	<Hyperbyte> Everything I want to happen on login, I do via one startup script which is the same for all users.
15:58	And with some bash scripting you could easily make it per-user
15:58	<Gnoze5> i mean if i want to change something for everyone
15:58	if i use the whole home dir substitution method
15:58	<Hyperbyte> isStudent=`groups \| grep student \| wc -l`
15:58	if [ isStudent == 1 ]; then
15:58	setconfig-student
15:58	fi;
15:58	<Gnoze5> i guess i could have a script
15:58	that copies the gconf settings of the template on every login
15:59	and then if i want to make changes
15:59	i just change the template account?
15:59	<Hyperbyte> But for gconf you should use mandatory config
15:59	<Gnoze5> the problem with mandatory is that its for all users
15:59	if i ave different settings for different users..
15:59	<Hyperbyte> So which gconf settings do you want per-user?
15:59	<Gnoze5> stuff like bein able to change background
16:00	or what apps are on the menu
16:00	<Hyperbyte> I think you can just apply permissions to /usr/share/applications/*.desktop files for that
16:00	If you make a desktop file only readable by group admins, it should only appear for admins
16:01	Background, yeah, that'd be more tricky.
16:01	I think the main problem with copying gconf settings on login, is that the gconf probably gets loaded before you can copy it
16:02	<Gnoze5> that is very true
16:02	<Hyperbyte> Depends on from where you start the script of course
16:02	<Gnoze5> hm
16:02	well
16:02	<Hyperbyte> You could run it before Gnome probably.
16:02	<Gnoze5> when i want to make changes
16:02	i just run a script that reconfigures all users
16:02	and that should do it
16:02	still use the template account as the changing point
16:03	<Hyperbyte> Yeah. :)
16:03	<Gnoze5> anyway
16:03	essentially what I need to do is try different solutions
16:03	and im sure from experience the right one will show up
16:03	<Hyperbyte> I chose to do it on login everytime, rather than only once as a template, so I can make sure that users always have certain settings at login time.
16:04	<Gnoze5> Im very certain that certain aspects ill have to have set on login
16:04	<Hyperbyte> Plus, if you use a template, you'd still have to change certain aspects, like Thunderbird user name, or Softphone login user name
16:04	<Gnoze5> yeah
16:04	exactly
16:04	i agree
16:04	but
16:04	where do you store those?
16:04	<Hyperbyte> With a script on login, you can just fetch all the data from the current user.
16:04	<Gnoze5> directly on the script?
16:04	oh
16:04	yeah
16:05	makes more sense
16:05	softphone is a cool concept btw
16:05	<Hyperbyte> Actually, I'm in the luxery position where all logins to be configured are the same as the user name that's logging in
16:05	<Gnoze5> in what context do you use it?
16:05	<Hyperbyte> So for me it's $USER
16:05	:)
16:05	In what context? Instead of physical phones man. =)
16:05	We don't have a physical telephone in our office.
16:05	<Gnoze5> i mean more what kind of users
16:06	do you know asterix?
16:06	<Hyperbyte> Secretaries, managers... the whole lot.
16:06	Yeah, he's Obelix's buddy!
16:06	<Gnoze5> asterisk
16:06	P*
16:06	*
16:06	<Hyperbyte> :P
16:06	<Gnoze5> i need to sleep..
16:06	<Hyperbyte> Asterisk is a nice PBX, use it for all my telephony needs
16:06	I use asterisk in combination with SFLphone
16:07	Saves me from lots of wiring for hardphones.
16:07	Plus people can just answer the phone with F8 and hangup with F12. :P
16:07	<Gnoze5> whats the network usage overhead?
16:07	<Hyperbyte> For VOIP? Minimal.
16:07	A voip call uses less than an average webstream.
16:08	Problem is that VoIP doesn't require as much bandwith as it does low-latency.
16:08	If you have congestion on your network, or high ping times, VoIP is not for you.
16:08	Okay
16:08	Now I'm gonna sleep. :-)
16:08	You should go too!
16:08	G'night. :)
16:08	We'll talk more tomorrow.
16:08	<Gnoze5> thanks again
16:08	ttys :)
16:09	<Hyperbyte> Can't wait for Hazy to get back with his program tomorrow. Really curious to see how he did. :)
16:10	<Gnoze5> if he needs it , it will be good
16:10	lol
16:10	<Hyperbyte> :D
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17:59	<hughessd> hello again guys,
17:59	i was in here few hours ago asking about how to get better resolution on an ltsp client
18:00	i have tried explicitly setting the resolution and also letting xrandr take care of detecting it but, the biggest it will get is 800x 600
18:01	xrandr spits out: Screen 0:minimum 640x480, current 800x600, maximum 800x 600
18:01	default connected 800x600+0+9 0mm x 0mm
18:04	i followed advice from Gadi and did 'ltsp-localapps xterm' then 'xrandr' and am getting the same thing.
18:04	why is the lts.conf not being read properly?
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23:09	<Hazy> Godd morning guys...
23:10	* ball waves
23:20	<Hazy> i am getting an error when i try to install gtkmm on ubuntu 10.10 by using this command "apt-get install libgtkmm-2.4-dev" and getting error is :Errors were encountered while processing:crossplatformui
23:25	i am not ble to fix this error please help me....to fix this crossplatformui error
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00:00	--- Wed Jun 8 2011