IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 21 December 2009   (all times are UTC)

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08:45
<sbalneav_>
Morning all
08:45
hmm
08:46
not who I normally am
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08:46
<sbalneav>
There that's better
08:46
Morning all
08:46
<epaphus>
Hello... can Ekiga run as a local app?
08:46
morning sbalneav
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08:46
<sbalneav>
epaphus: I think some people have
08:47
<epaphus>
thats what i hear also...
08:47
but i thought it had a certain dependancy that made it really difficult..?
08:48
<sbalneav>
Well the simplest way would just be to try :)
08:48
<dro>
good morning sbalneav
08:48
<sbalneav>
then, if you DO run into difficulties, you can document it on a wiki somewhere
08:48
<epaphus>
welll yeah and no. i wanted to find out before i try :P
08:48
<sbalneav>
so that next time someone asks "Does ekiga work as a local app", then we can say "http://....
08:49
epaphus: Well, the previous person who tried, didn't document.
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08:49
<sbalneav>
So...
08:49
dro: Morning.
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08:49
<dro>
document it so it can be shared for the future
08:49
<sbalneav>
Correct
08:49
<dro>
I <3 the documenation I've found for ubuntu+ltsp
08:50
<sbalneav>
Nubae did a lot of work on the wiki
08:50
and I maintain the upstream docs
08:50
<dro>
sbalneav: how is the sourceforge website working out?
08:51
<sbalneav>
In what way?
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08:52
<dro>
sbalneav: i know the other server you were using was having issues or something and you were debating what to do with the site
08:54
<sbalneav>
I belive we're using Sourceforge now for the upstream wiki
08:54
I don't know if jammcq's got everything moved over yet or not.
08:55
<dro>
cool cool
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08:56
<dro>
I've been on vacation for a week, my brain isn't functioning again yet
09:10
<Lumiere>
dro: could be worse...
09:11
you could have a snow day from work :)
09:11
<dro>
lol I missed work
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09:19
<grantk>
hello, wondering if anyone knew how to change keyboard layout for clients. I have a server installed using a vm template that originated in France, I went through setup and it did not allow me to change keyboard, It was not apparent that it was set for French settings, not US until trying to login as a user with the ltsp install. I was able to change on the server, but did not know how to change the ltsp portion, do I have to do the ltsp-bu
09:20
<dro>
grantk: probably need to change it in the chroot or in lts.conf
09:21
<grantk>
dro: ok, I checked lts.conf, It has been a while since I made any changes to ltsp, If I recall chroot is going to basically be the same files to change as a normal system right?
09:21
<dro>
grantk: found this link, it should help: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=211061
09:22
grantk: I'm not 100% sure but check out that post
09:22
<grantk>
dro: ohh, sweet, thanks, second reply looked awesome
09:23
<dro>
grantk: np
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10:02
<CAN-o-SPAM>
Morning all!
10:04
<dro>
good morning
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10:30
<stgraber>
I'll be tagging a new ltsp in 5 minutes if nobody has objections (to include the gid fix and a screen-session.d bug)
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10:52
<stgraber>
just for everyone's information, I uploaded a new LTSP to Lucid, it's the first time LTSP is shipped without HAL for a while
10:52
so I'll quite soon start to cleanup all of upstream scripts so they don't depend on hal anymore
10:52
as hal is being dropped as a dependency at least in Ubuntu (I suspect other distros are doing the same too)
10:54* alkisg will help in testing, thanks stgraber....
10:54
<stgraber>
I'll be doing a backport for Karmic in a few minutes
10:54
<Ahmuck-Sr>
what replaces hal?
10:54
<johnny>
udev
10:55
<stgraber>
part will be done by devicekit, the rest is done directly with udev
10:55
<johnny>
udev, udisks (formerly devicekit-disks), upower (formerly devicekit-power)
10:55
and on the media player front, media-player-info
10:55
<Ahmuck-Sr>
that's what i thought. udev started making it's appearence in 2003 iirc with lfs ?
10:55
<johnny>
with lfs?
10:55
no
10:56
more like suse/redhat
10:56
<Ahmuck-Sr>
earlier than that?
10:56
<johnny>
and gentoo
10:56
<Ahmuck-Sr>
well, gentoo was automated lfs :)
10:56
<johnny>
a bit..
10:56
<Ahmuck-Sr>
about what time frame?
10:57
<johnny>
go to the udev site, look for the earlier tarball
10:57
there ya go
10:57
<Ahmuck-Sr>
has udev made things more complicated for the user/admin ?
10:57
<johnny>
uhmm.. maybe.. but it also allowed linux to be a decent plug and play OS..
10:57
before, it was all hardcoded in the kernel
10:58
<alkisg>
I have an HP T5000 thin client (lspci: http://pastebin.com/f54fb6198) where only one specific user can login, while other users (or new users) fail to login.
10:58
Can someone help in locating the problem? Here's the working user's .xsession-errors: http://pastebin.com/f75183c8a
10:58
And here's the non-working user's .xsession-errors: http://pastebin.com/f54fb6198
10:58
<johnny>
actually.. before that.. iwas devfs.. which was similiar to udev..
10:58
but devfs never really got maintained
10:58
<alkisg>
Oops, correct link for lspci: http://pastebin.com/f186fe285
10:58
<johnny>
kinda died later..
10:59
Ahmuck, i recommend you read about greg k-h .. one of the most prolific usb maintainers
10:59
you'll find the entire store if you cross ref udev and greg kroah-hartman
11:00
<Ahmuck-Sr>
hrm, that will be an interesting read, on the paper presented in 2003
11:01
johnny: ah yes, i recall now that was the disucssion at lfs, choosing which to use iirc, devfs or udev
11:01
<johnny>
well.. not much of a choice really
11:01
devfs was dyin
11:02
<Ahmuck-Sr>
johnny: actually, i've set down and started reading the kroah-hartman pdf
11:02
pape
11:02
<johnny>
the design of udev was obviously better
11:02
<Ahmuck-Sr>
r
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11:07
<alkisg>
@(#@*&$(@ I can login with vesa with any user...
11:08
...but I don't understand how does this specific user can log in without specifying vesa!
11:08
<sbalneav>
alkisg: have a look at their group membership
11:09
<alkisg>
sbalneav: they're the same
11:09
<sbalneav>
really? Freeeeeeeeeeaaaaky
11:09
I was thinking the one was a member of "video" or something that the others weren't
11:10
/etc/X11/Xsession.d/80_ltsp-sound: 7: /usr/bin/asoundconf: not found
11:10
<alkisg>
LANG=en_US.UTF-8 id aggelos && id sotitz # sotitz = the working user
11:10
uid=1014(aggelos) gid=1014(aggelos) groups=1014(aggelos),4(adm),20(dialout),21(fax),24(cdrom),25(floppy),26(tape),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),106(fuse),115(admin),122(sambashare)
11:10
uid=1011(sotitz) gid=1011(sotitz) ομάδες=1011(sotitz),4(adm),20(dialout),21(fax),24(cdrom),25(floppy),26(tape),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),106(fuse),115(admin),122(sambashare)
11:10
<sbalneav>
wonder if that's turning you
11:11
<alkisg>
But how can that be different in one user?!!!
11:11
<sbalneav>
path settings in their .bashrc?
11:11
<alkisg>
Ah, looking...
11:11
<sbalneav>
I'm purely speculating
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11:27
<alkisg>
Nah, no sugar :(
11:27
<Ahmuck>
ομάδες=1011(sotitz)
11:28
not sure it matters, but that should be groups=1011(sotitz)
11:28
<alkisg>
Ahmuck: that's just the translated greek word...
11:28
<Ahmuck>
correct. so if it wasn't translated, would it change things?
11:28
is there a specific login process that is looking for the word in english?
11:29
<alkisg>
Uh, no, that's just the output of the command, and it's the same for both users
11:29
I just did LANG=en to change it to english for you guys, but that only affected the first `id` command
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11:35
<Ahmuck>
remove /home/user/.config/metacity from offending user?
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11:42
<alkisg>
Ahmuck: with new users I'm not able to login
11:42
So there must be something special in the working user's home dir, that makes things work right...
11:43
Also, with XSERVER=vesa I'm able to login with any user
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11:49
<johnny>
prove it..
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11:49
<johnny>
remove the working user's ~/ stuff
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12:05
<Gadi>
stgraber: ping
12:10
<alkisg>
johnny: proven :( The .xsession-errors, after moving the working user's home dir, and creating another: http://pastebin.com/f604255b
12:10
It's just like any other user's .xsession-errors now...
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12:12
<alkisg>
Gadi: Some ideas about an X/xsession problem? I got an HP T5000 thin client (lspci: http://pastebin.com/f186fe285) and I'm *only* able to login with a specific user. BUT if I set XSERVER=vesa, then I'm able to login with any user!
12:12
Working user's .xsession-errors: http://pastebin.com/f75183c8a Non working: http://pastebin.com/f54fb6198
12:19
Ah, narrowed it down to ~/.local, .gconf or .config...
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12:22
<Gadi>
alkisg: remove the user's .Xauthority
12:22
if he has one
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12:22
<alkisg>
Gadi: I created a new user, copied ~/.gconf from the working user, and this new user can login now
12:22
So something in ~/.gconf is making the difference... well... I'll just do a binary search :(
12:24
<johnny>
question..
12:24
does local firefox seem slow for other folks?
12:24
to open i mean
12:24
and is there any way to speed it up?
12:27
<stgraber>
Gadi: pong
12:34
<alkisg>
Found it, this makes the users able to login: gconftool-2 --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
12:34
I've no idea why, though...
12:35
Is that compiz-related?
12:35
<highvoltage>
sbalneav: are you around?
12:36
<Ahmuck-Sr>
anybody using google chrome with ltsp?
12:39
<Gadi>
alkisg: almost definitely
12:39
stgraber: did you "upstart-ify" the initscripts in ur lucid pkg?
12:40
<alkisg>
Bah... I'm with sbalneav on this, compiz is utterly useless :D
12:51
<stgraber>
Gadi: not yet, I've been doing some upstart work recently but so far, only get a few services to start
12:51
Gadi: getting everything ported to upstart, tested and optimized is quite a lot of work :)
12:51
Gadi: btw, you mentioned you found a clean version of your rm -Rf patch for rdesktop, do you have an URL for that ?
12:52
<Gadi>
I can do better - if you give me an email addy, I can send you my debian/patches directory
12:53
<alkisg>
Heh, open-invaders works fine with LTSP... allegro >> SDL ;)
12:53
<stgraber>
alkisg: congratz !
12:53
<alkisg>
Thanks!
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13:01
<Gadi>
stgraber: sent
13:02
<stgraber>
Gadi: thanks
13:05
<Gadi>
stgraber: fyi - someone just posted a patch yesterday for full-color cursors
13:05
<vagrantc>
stgraber: hey, were you planning on obsoleting your method for shutdown in favor of alkisg's ?
13:05
or will we have both methods long term?
13:07
<stgraber>
vagrantc: I'll switch to alkis' method (as in, use X atoms), no idea when I'll have the patch in gnome though so it's likely I'll have to keep my localapps hack to get the menu entries
13:08
<vagrantc>
stgraber: was also hoping to sync up our debian dirs a little ... there's always going to be some divergence, but i'd like to sync up what we can
13:10
<alkisg>
stgraber: I think you can change your .desktop files to use X atoms, no? I think cyberorg came up with a .desktop file that works on both gnome and KDE...
13:11
(=call xprop and then dbus and dcop to logout)
13:14
<stgraber>
alkisg: ok, I'll probably update them this week when I find some time
13:14
<alkisg>
np from me :)
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13:50
<akuepker>
anybody know offhand how to specifically disable the floppy in local devices? I can trust my co-workers with their own USB sticks, but not necessarily well enough to not wipe their boot floppies by mistake.
13:51
<stgraber>
I just went through all the code of current LTSP, it seems we only had 3 files or so that were mentioning hal
13:51
<Gadi>
LOCALDEV_DENY_FLOPPY = True
13:51
akuepker: ^^^
13:52
stgraber: iirc, you were the only one who use it :)
13:52
*used
13:52
<akuepker>
aha! thanks.
13:54
<stgraber>
Gadi: hehe
14:00
<sbalneav>
Gadi: While I've got you, will you have some time to test a fix I have to the ltspfs permissions issue?
14:01
<Gadi>
sbalneav: the whole group ownership thing?
14:01
<sbalneav>
yeah
14:02
<johnny>
so.. how slow is firefox as a local app for folks?
14:02
just trying to see what i should be expecting
14:02
it seems fine once you're using it
14:02
it's just really really slow to launch
14:02
<Gadi>
sbalneav: I need to recreate a test environment for it
14:02
<johnny>
probably about 30 seconds
14:02
<sbalneav>
Gadi: No rush
14:02
<Gadi>
okey dokey
14:03
Ill add it to the list of VMs to prep
14:03
:)
14:03
johnny: regardless of client hardware specs?
14:03
<johnny>
hard to say.. since they are all about the same..
14:04
<Gadi>
does it take as long if you close firefox and launch a second time in the same sesion?
14:04
<johnny>
they are all >1Ghz
14:04
<Gadi>
*session
14:04
<johnny>
for cpu
14:04
and about the same amount of ram.. but it's probably not enough .. i'm waiting for a delivery
14:04
didn't think ram would affect launch tho..
14:05
other than crashing at OOM
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14:05
<johnny>
i should install that gigabit network card again..
14:05
<Gadi>
does it take as long if you close firefox and launch a second time in the same session?
14:05
<johnny>
i only have 3 clients Gadi ...
14:05
i'll try when people aren't using them
14:05
<Gadi>
ok
14:06
if it is slow upon closing and opening a second time, then it most likely has to do with low memory
14:07
also might depend on how heavy your default homepage s
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14:13
<johnny>
yeah.. i hope to get more ram soon
14:13
ok.. time to go home..
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14:49
<vagrantc>
stgraber: you removed "Should-Start: hal" from the ltsp-core init script ... but does Ubuntu even use that setting for anything?
14:50
stgraber: it will definitely cause problems for Debian.
14:50
at least until the hal stuff is dropped.
14:51
it's also the sort of thing that shouldn't cause problems even if it is used by Ubuntu ... it will nudge the dependencies around only if hal is present.
14:53
anyone seen this before: http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Default_device_from_environment_variable
14:53
<stgraber>
vagrantc: hmm, indeed it should cause any issue, I'll revert this one
14:53
<vagrantc>
stgraber: thanks :)
14:54
if that above mentioned URL works, i'd like to add a hook that sets ALSA_DEFAULT_PCM=pulse and ALSA_DEFAULT_CTL=pulse from ldm ... although maybe that wouldn't work across all distros.
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14:56
<vagrantc>
so, can we release ltsp 5.2.0 instead of 5.1.100 ?
14:57
it would be interesting to have a cross-distro release sync'ed or something. a show of LTSP solidarity.
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14:58
<vagrantc>
with versions, so often i hear people say "5.1.something" and it would be nice at some point to have them say "5.2.something" in order to get a ballpark estimate of what versions they're running.
15:00
<stgraber>
making 5.1.100 the 5.2 release sounds good as we don't really have big goals that'd justify a 5.2 tag
15:01
it's really step by step improvement lately with no major breakage that'd justify a major version change
15:01
so that'd mean we'd have 5.2 probably in January ;)
15:02
<vagrantc>
start of a new year :)
15:04
<sbalneav>
And so this is Christmas
15:04
and what have you done?
15:04
Another year over...
15:04
A new rev just begun.
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21:42
<sbalneav>
Evening all
21:44
<Ahmuck-Sr>
.
21:46
<sbalneav>
heh, I'd say Evening in #sabayon, but there's no one there but me.
21:47
I have full ops, just in case I feel like kickbanning myself.
21:56
<Ahmuck-Sr>
huh, there are 53 users there
21:57
<stgraber>
Ahmuck-Sr: you probably are in #sabayon on freenode, that's for the sabayon disto.
21:57
*distro
21:57
for the sabayon gnome tool, that's on irc.gnome.org
21:58
<Ahmuck-Sr>
wanting attention /
21:58
?
21:58
<sbalneav>
Nah, just thought it was funny.
21:59* stgraber is playing with terminator + screen with split windows
21:59
<sbalneav>
Such an important tool... languished so long.
21:59
<stgraber>
it gets really really confusing
21:59
as terminator lets you split your terminal window and then screen does its own splitting :)
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