IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 14 August 2010   (all times are UTC)

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13:06
<jdu>
with ltsp5 on ubuntu 10.04, I'm trying to boot a thin client using legacy grub and rtl8139
13:06
is there any advice as what the config lines kernel and initrd should be?
13:07
also, I'm using dnsmasq, where my server address is 192.168.0.2 and my router with dhcp is 192.168.0.1
13:07
another thin client, my laptop, successfully boots (and is currently in use)
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13:25
<alkisg>
jdu: you mean that the thin client doesn't support "boot from lan"? Just put gpxe on it...
13:25
I've a ready-to-use package for grub2, if that's an option, otherwise just add gpxe.krn to menu.lst
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14:17
<iggyboy>
hello :)
14:19
anybody here?
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14:21
<alkisg>
!question
14:21
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "question" :: if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
14:21
<alkisg>
iggyboy: ^^^
14:21
<iggyboy>
hello... i'm first time using IRC channel to get help.... is anybody chatting at the main board here?
14:21
hehehhe....
14:22
I am about to test LTSP using virtual box host... I setup accordingly but my DHCP server refuse to start... always give *fail*
14:23
I am using Ubuntu Lucid Server i386 in VBox
14:23
<alkisg>
Server isn't a good choice, it's easier to install ltsp using the ubuntu alternative cd
14:24
<iggyboy>
i have set 1 Gigabits NIC as bridge in Vbox, dedicated for LTSP server only
14:24
<alkisg>
Put 2 nics in your vbox guest so that everything is done automatically
14:24
Here's the how-to: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
14:24
<iggyboy>
ic... okey let me try just now :) thanks alot :)
14:25
<alkisg>
OK - if you want to troubleshoot your installation, you can do that as well, but you'll also have other problems
14:25
<iggyboy>
I follow those steps... one by one
14:25
<alkisg>
E.g. you won't even have a gui, because a desktop environment is needed on the servers
14:25
*server
14:25
<iggyboy>
okey... let me put two NIC and see how thing going one. :)
14:25
<alkisg>
(i.e. you'll need to do `tasksel install ubuntu-desktop` anyway
14:25
Also download the alternative cd, not the server one.
14:26
<iggyboy>
OK downloading AlternateCD
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14:29
<miminho>
anyone know how to configure Wine + ltsp?
14:33
<alkisg>
Just install wine?
14:34
<miminho>
alkisg, only works in user who made the installation.
14:34
<alkisg>
Right, that's how wine works
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14:35
<alkisg>
I think the wine developers sell another suite which works for all users.
14:35
<johnny>
sure.. but would they actually deny a patch that added it to the open version?
14:35
that is the open question
14:36
<alkisg>
They already have the patch :)
14:36
Well... if they want to keep the functionality limited, I can understand them wanting to make some money off of it
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14:36
<alkisg>
They did devote a lot of time in wine...
14:37
<johnny>
sure.. but that sounds like something a distro would integrate
14:37
if upstream won't
14:37
<iggyboy>
I am downloading the Alternative CD, meanwhile.... I would like to troubleshoot the current setup... Is thereanyway to restart the LTSP server like restarting DHCP, Networking deamon?
14:37
<johnny>
the license permits such things :)
14:38
<miminho>
then have to install the program on all users?
14:38
<alkisg>
Sure. I've thought of many ways to do just that, I just don't know if I want to invest the necessary time to implement it... (trying to use wine as little as we can here, usually we're just packaging any wine apps we need as .debs)
14:39
miminho: either buy the alternative program, or install wine for all users, or if the program runs without installation just run it, or use some scripts to "bypass" the problem. You can find some of them on google, but nothing works quite well, they need a lot of work still.
14:40
http://www.codeweavers.com/products/differences/
14:43
<miminho>
alkisg, johnny , thanks for the help, guess I'll have to install to all users
14:44
<iggyboy>
alkisg, is there any deamon for LTSP to restart, or rebuild back the LTSP stuffs?
14:44
<alkisg>
iggyboy: I'd rather not troubleshoot a problem that will solve itself in 30 minutes :)
14:44
There's dhcp, tftp, inetd (nbd) etc
14:44
<iggyboy>
hehhehe.. okey then :) thanks, just curious :)
14:44
<alkisg>
You can restart each one of them but it won't help if you don't modify /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf first
14:45
And when you solve that, you'll hit the "no Desktop Environment" problem
14:45
:)
14:45
<iggyboy>
ic... will try with the AlternateCD and see how going one...
14:47
<alkisg>
OK. Set one nic bridged and another "internal only"
14:47
(either bridged or nat, whatever you prefer)
14:47
<iggyboy>
Another Question, I am planning to run a fat diskless cleint, 1 Gigabits from server to Swithch and 100Mbits to client, do you think is ok, cos, all my program will run locally at the client side.
14:48
<alkisg>
Erm. OK. Then the ubuntu desktop cd would be better :D
14:48
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
14:49
Anyway, go on with the alternate, see how thin clients work and then delete that chroot and create a new, fat one.
14:49
How many clients?
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14:52
<iggyboy>
alkisg, it 20-25 clients...
14:52
<alkisg>
iggyboy: they'd be fine if you have https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl disabled
14:53
<iggyboy>
bythe way, is the necessary to biult the client image at the server, can i create one at the client using harddisk and transfer the image to server
14:54
<alkisg>
You need ltsp installed to create the image. So if you install ltsp on the client, then yeah sure.
14:54
<iggyboy>
cos' i want to customise the clients image... the ppl here are allegic to linux, and i need to do alot of things to simplify
14:55
<johnny>
most if it is customized on the server iggyboy ..
14:55
ah, for fat clients :)
14:55
might as well just customize on the server, so you have one place to isntall extra packages
14:56
iggyboy, for example, adding custom ltsp-build-client.conf files that install extra packages on every build, like if you rebuild the client later for upgraded ubuntu versions
14:56
<iggyboy>
ic.... didn't know that... thought like MS stuffs, do it at client and transfer... 1st try using LTSP and learning it.. :)
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14:57
<alkisg>
You can boot a client with different hardware with the same windows image? how?
14:58
Erm, and more importantly, you've used windows-based fat clients? I didn't know that was possible...
14:58
Netbooted windows, ok, but real fat clients, no...
14:58
Care to tell us more?
14:58
<iggyboy>
you can do that, there is program known to collect the PCI drivers from every MS system and finally load to one system that need to image.
14:58
errr... let me find out the name of the program
14:59
<johnny>
ah.. well don't worry about that
14:59
the linux kernel comes wiht drivers for almost everything
14:59
in windows drivers seem to to be based off product names and models
14:59
so you end up with drivers for stuff that should be standard
14:59
<iggyboy>
yeah that right... never need to install any drivers so far, been using desktop ubuntu sinde Dapper :)
15:00
<johnny>
in linux kernel, most of it is shared, so the drivers tend to be based on chipsets
15:00
naming wise that is
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15:00
<alkisg>
iggyboy: if you remember the name of the program, i'd really like to know :)
15:01
<iggyboy>
wait... i give you the program...
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15:03
<alkisg>
(so if you have nvidia, ati and intel clients, you end up with an image that has all 3 driver programs installed?)
15:04
<iggyboy>
got it... the program is comes with ccboot and the name is CCBootPNP.exe
15:04
is a small utility program
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15:07
<iggyboy>
i am sending you the utility program
15:07
<alkisg>
Thanks, I'll look into it. I don't think that will work well for different hardware, but anyway it might be good for some use cases...
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15:09
<iggyboy>
the step is: put it in a thumb drive and run the program on every client machine and click "Get PCI Data" and the goto the last cleint machine and click "install PCI Drivers" that's it.
15:09
why it's not moving?
15:11
it's only 374kB, but not moving at all
15:11
i am using XChat here.
15:11
<alkisg>
I think freenode has file transfer blocked somehow, but don't worry, I can find it
15:11
Thanks though
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15:12
<alkisg>
The problem is that windows can't handle multiple drivers. E.g. in the case with nvidia + ati + intel above, chaos would emerge..
15:12
<iggyboy>
you need to find the CCBOOT program, this utility is part of it.
15:12
<alkisg>
...and on some labs here need more than 20 different drivers to get them working
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15:13
<iggyboy>
so far the CyberCafe's here use this program, once setup nicely, little issues.... so far okey here.
15:13
<alkisg>
I'm guessing the have the same hardware on the clients
15:13
*they
15:13
But anyway, I"ll give it a try
15:14
<iggyboy>
I am new to that program as well, my friend from another cybercafe recommended me, I tried that on 3 diffrent amd systems okey.
15:14
<alkisg>
Does it save each client state after they boot? Or any changes are lost after reboot?
15:15
<iggyboy>
one Via chipset another old SIS and intel atom.
15:15
<alkisg>
None of them needs a driver from the manufacturer, right?
15:15
I.e. can you see the drivers in control panel?
15:15
<iggyboy>
the CCBOOT has COW feature, which is really nice, but the PNP utilities not
15:16
you need to install the drivers to the client 1st, and then collect the drivers using the utility
15:16
<alkisg>
And what happens if you want to install an additional program to all clients, and they already have some cow data?
15:16
Is that lost?
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15:17
<iggyboy>
you can make any cleint system as temporary "super cleint" which will update the image
15:17
also you can fall back to old image incase something happpen.
15:18
<johnny>
you can log into the server and then sudo to root and build the client
15:18
<alkisg>
But what happens to cow data for the other clients?
15:18
<iggyboy>
the normal cleint always revert back to original setting. meaning not an issue with virusess
15:18
<alkisg>
Ah, ok, so no cow normally.
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15:19
<iggyboy>
I was wandering is there any feature in linux for COW to keep the cleint machine back to original settings?
15:20
cos' i am setting up the LTSP for public use.
15:20
<alkisg>
The fat clients normally are using cow with tmpfs, meaning any changes are lost on reboot
15:20
(on the hard disk, not on user's /home)
15:20
*virtual hard disk)
15:20
<iggyboy>
ic.. that's great. :)
15:21
<johnny>
can you can certain script it to delete the users /home on logout
15:21
if necessary
15:21
<iggyboy>
you mean the /home also revert back to original right?
15:21
<johnny>
only if you want it to
15:21
that's up to you
15:21
it's a tiny script to make it do so tho
15:22
<iggyboy>
yeah... i want that cos' many ppl access to the same machine, and they have to memebers id or anything like thta
15:22
it's a public pc, with one system use by multiple people...
15:23
i'll try to do as you suggessted.... hopefully it work with my knowledge level. :)
15:25
it took me ages to convince my boss to try linux then using pirated ms product... i really hope can bring something good here.
15:26
well,,, johnny and alkisg.. thanks alot... really appericiated your help... i gotta go off now... thanks alot again
15:26
<alkisg>
Good luck
15:26
<iggyboy>
bye
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15:51
<poff>
Hello. Is it possible some applications in fat mode and other in thin mode ?
15:51
<johnny>
local apps
15:51
so the whole session is on the server, but an app can run locally
15:55
<poff>
I'd like to run firefox locally and, for instance open an openoffice document from a website on the server. Is this possible ?
15:59
<alkisg>
You'd have to associate .odt files with `ltsp-remoteapps soffice` etc
15:59
It's not done automatically atm, afaik...
16:02
<poff>
OK. thanks alkisg. I've googled with these words and found pointers.
16:03
<alkisg>
poff, just out of curiosity, why would you prefer localapps over fat clients?
16:09
<poff>
I'm just gathering information about the way LTSP works. I'd prefer running remote application but I've read that watching youtube on the server may not be a good idea.
16:10
<alkisg>
"I'd prefer running remote application" ==> why? (again, just curious...)
16:10
If your clients are good enough to run firefox locally, why not run all the session locally and save yourself from the ltsp-remoteapps xxx trouble?
16:12
<poff>
To save bandwidth.
16:13
<alkisg>
You save more bandwidth running everything locally.
16:14
<poff>
OK. I'll follow your advice. I'll try running everything locally.
16:14
<alkisg>
What are your client specs? cpu and ram?
16:15
<poff>
atom 230 1go RAM
16:15* alkisg isn't giving any advice here - I was just curious if there's any advantage to localapps vs fat clients that I haven't thought of...
16:16
<alkisg>
Yeah, personally I'd use fat clients with that - but it's your call, try both of the technologies and compare for yourself.
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