IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 12 April 2008   (all times are UTC)

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05:27
<moritz>
I'd like to use Edubuntu with Virtualbox enabled as a Local App - do Local Apps work well these days or would it be rather hard to get this working?
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06:45
<Q-FUNK>
how do we bypass packages that try to restart an init.d script in the chroot, again?
06:47
<stgraber>
Q-FUNK: export LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS="false" with the modified start-stop-daemon may help
06:51
<Q-FUNK>
stgraber: well, no. that doens't solve the issue of installing upgrades.
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07:01
<Q-FUNK>
but thanks anyway :)
07:02
<IRCzito>
Guys, where I can found jetpipe source?
07:02
project page
07:03
<Q-FUNK>
jetåipe?
07:04
<IRCzito>
Q-FUNK: yea
07:06
Q-FUNK: an lp_server replacement
07:07
<herson>
:)
07:09
<ogra>
IRCzito, its suposed to move into its own source tree at some point, for now it sits somewhere in the ltsp source
07:09
<IRCzito>
ogra: ow, thanks :D
07:09
bzr
07:09
<herson>
IRCzito: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/feisty-ltsp-jetpipe
07:09
<ogra>
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/files
07:10
herson, thats ancient :)
07:10
<herson>
hehehe
07:10
oh yeah
07:10
<ogra>
thats jetpipe: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/annotate/vagrant%40freegeek.org-20080411163710-enx278andfudnhwn?file_id=jetpipe-20061206173433-pmrfiu61j4wm2itf-2
07:10
<IRCzito>
ogra: wath script launch jetpipe on the client?
07:10
<herson>
i see in your page
07:10
<ogra>
(you will notice it didnt change much though :))
07:11
IRCzito, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/annotate/vagrant%40freegeek.org-20080411163710-enx278andfudnhwn?file_id=x_Matt_Zimmerman_<matt.zimmerman%40canonical.com>_Tue_May__3_20%3A51%3A41_2005_6467.0
07:12
the configure_printer function in that initscript
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07:13
<IRCzito>
ogra: I know the lts.conf, but i try do made it work in Fedora LTSP. And I dont found where client read PRINTER_0_DEVICE variable
07:14
<ogra>
line 113 in the last script link i pasted
07:14
eval DEVICE=\$\{PRINTER_${I}_DEVICE\}
07:15
<Q-FUNK>
darn X. DDC is broken again on amd/geode and, even worse, it fails to support any other resolution than the default 800x600. yet, this driver can give impossibly large resolutions if compiled against an older X core.
07:16* ogra wondes where all these scary baslashes come from
07:16
<ogra>
Q-FUNK, but thats ony autodetection, right ?
07:16
<IRCzito>
ogra: thanks :D
07:16
<ogra>
if i hardcode resolutions it will work
07:19
<Q-FUNK>
ogra: no, even specifying the resolution in xorg.conf fails. X insists on reporting bad freq ratio that it cannot use
07:19
<ogra>
gah
07:19
i thought the -geode upload fixes the world :/
07:20
<Q-FUNK>
well, it again seems that this ix x core related.
07:20
that x86emu is such a piece of crap!
07:20
<ogra>
did the former -amd work better with that ?
07:22
<Q-FUNK>
well, that's the funny part: amd 2.7.7.7 worked fine until a few days ago. now, even that one fails at DDC.
07:22
so this really points at an X.org core issue
07:24
and as it so happens, xserver-xorg-core was indeed updated during the last few days
07:31
heck, even 2.7.7.6 no longer detects the optimal rez
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07:34
<Q-FUNK>
and 2.7.7.6 is what i deployed in estonian embassies and it positively worked
07:34
<ogra>
hmm
07:35
probably a patch ?
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07:38
<alkisg>
stgraber, hi, are you here?
07:41
<K_O-Gnom>
hmm irgendwie ist eine Y kuppllung nich so prickelnd wenn man den kopfhörer leise stellen kann .. der zieht die ganze anlage mit runter
07:41
<laga>
K_O-Gnom: wrong channel? :)
07:43
<K_O-Gnom>
laga: nö die y kupplung hängt an der gentoo maschine :-P
07:46
<Q-FUNK>
ogra: yes, but a patch in x core, once again
07:46
<ogra>
Q-FUNK, right, i just want to know if we could avoid breaking it with the sync
07:47
<K_O-Gnom>
laga: hmm yes wrong chang :-/
07:47
<ogra>
i can point bryce to look at the patch if i know which one breaks it
07:47
<laga>
K_O-Gnom: :)
07:47
<K_O-Gnom>
laga: got to many chans opened ... thougt here was #gentoo-anfenger
07:47
<Q-FUNK>
ogra: the sync won't chnage a thing. the problem is not the amd/geode driver.
07:48
<ogra>
Q-FUNK, the sync will change that people try the driver and will complain
07:48
<Q-FUNK>
ogra: there's alreayd reports of -amd no longer working with DDC
07:48
so it won't chnage anything with that either
07:48
<ogra>
so being able to identify whats broken in advance would help
07:48
<Q-FUNK>
whatever crappy patch broke it in x core already made its damage
07:49
<ogra>
(and probably having a chance to fix it during this week)
07:49
<Q-FUNK>
whether we sync geode in or not won't magically revert X core to the last known good
07:49
<ogra>
right, i'd like to rule out the "whatever" from your above sentence :)
07:49
<stgraber>
alkisg: yes
07:49
<Q-FUNK>
:)
07:50
ogra: me too, except that I have no idea which of those patches did it. i just know that 2.7.7.7-1 has been working fine until now and the onyl chnage that occured were new xerver-xorg-core uploads.
07:51
<alkisg>
stgraber, hi again. In demo mode=on, on LTSP clients, the screen refresh is way too slow. I have to wait about 5 seconds for all the clients to see the next screen while showing a presentation. Is this normal?
07:52
stgraber: Even on one client it is very slow. It's not a network problem, I can watch videos in my client with 30 fps!!!
07:53
stgraber: with iftop, I can see the bandwidth going to > 30Mbps, with a single powerpoint presentation, on a single client... Can I do something to make it better?
07:53
<stgraber>
alkisg: it's not "normal" but probably not italc's fault ... Possible things that cause that are : compiz (visual effects), network (VNC is far from being perfect), CPU usage for LZO compression
07:54
<alkisg>
compiz: off, cpu: <10%
07:54
LDM_DIRECTX=True (no compression)
07:54
what else can I try?
07:56
I'm using the script you gave me, the broadcasting is at 127.0.0.1
07:56
<stgraber>
alkisg: I don't think you can do much to fix that :(
07:57
<alkisg>
OK... can I ask you something else? I'm willing to try to implement something like italc but for ltsp only,
07:57
<stgraber>
alkisg: currently both clients and masters of iTalc are running on the server, then the client simply see it as a standard app
07:57
alkisg: a possible fix would be to run ica directly on the clients
07:58
<alkisg>
so shared memory on the server to share the screens (viewing/broadcasting), and a little program on the client to show the received screen on demo mode
07:58
<stgraber>
alkisg: but then you'd loose the ability of starting apps on the clients (but would have shutdown/reboot working)
07:58
<alkisg>
No vnc code at all. Do you thing it would be too hard?
07:58
(thanks for the ica tip, I'll try it)
07:59
<stgraber>
AFAIK all current solutions are based on VNC because that kind of apps are far from easy to write ... you need the part recording your desktop, compress, send and display on the clients ...
08:00
<alkisg>
That's the thing, all clients run on the server, so no network should be involved
08:00
<stgraber>
some bigs LTSP network are currently having a look at using iTalc so I guess we can expect some major changes for it
08:00
alkisg: VNC would probably use less bandwidth if ica was running on the clients instead of the server using the X tunnel
08:01
alkisg: because VNC traffic is compressed for that kind of use while X one isn't (or is less efficient)
08:01
last I spoke with the Millexterm guys about it, the idea was clearly to have ica/italc running as local app instead of running on the server
08:01
and they are running some really really big LTSP networks
08:02
<alkisg>
stgraber: ok... can I try something else? As I understand it, ica uses vnc code. Is there any way to pass parameters to the vnc server/client, e.g. no compression?
08:06
<stgraber>
alkisg: not that I know of, you'll have to change ica's code for that. X11VNC is directly used by italc's code and not run as a standalone app
08:07
<alkisg>
I'm not optimistic about VNC, I've never watched video with good quality with it, on any OS/configuration. But X server shows 30fps with 30Mbps bandwidth, so with a good switch I can broadcast video to all my 12 clients...
08:07
I'll try to come up with another solution for broadcasting, maybe vlc/utp multicast. I tried it with one client and it was very promising.
08:07
iTalc is perfect for viewing/controlling/running apps/etc though.
08:08
<stgraber>
VNC is completely different from the X server, VNC is broadcasting a video of your screen while the X tunnel is sending X events/window the rendering being done on the client
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08:10
<alkisg>
I see... that's why X behaves better, there's no screen grabbing involved.
08:10
Would it be possible to modify italc to grab the screen locally, without network involvment?
08:11
I mean, ask the X server that runs for the user12 to send the screen through a pipe or something
08:11
Capture events etc. Would it be a huge change, or something that I could do within a month?
08:12
<stgraber>
italc is a multiplatform tool so I guess it'll always use VNC, there is still much to do to improve VNC's performance though
08:13
<alkisg>
stgraber, thank you very much.
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17:54
<johnny_>
leio, sup?
17:55
<leio>
nothing, just spying here ;) Now you spotted me and I had to speak in here the first time, grr ;p
17:56
<johnny_>
you gentoo guys sure overuse :p
17:56
it is meaningless now
17:57
<leio>
overuse?
17:57
<johnny_>
well i'll try to convince you to test something after tuesday night :)
17:57
use it so much it loses all meaning and intent
17:58
i gotta script etc-update so it will automatically merge after openrc install to stop one extra step
17:59
since we won't see it in a stage3 til 2008.1
17:59
i imagine
17:59
<leio>
wasn't there a "merge all" negative number responas?
18:00
you mean ltsp5 will require openrc?
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18:02
<johnny_>
yes
18:02
either that or completely overwrite some baselayout 1 scripts
18:02
i figured it'd be better to go with openrc tho, since it is the futre
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18:17
<irc>
hello wondering if anyone has time to answer a question
18:18
<johnny_>
gotta ask it first
18:18
<irc>
yes
18:19
things are working great on a ltsp 4.2 install.
18:19
But
18:19
<leio>
johnny_: sounds good. Hopefully soon I'll get to upgrading to that as well, still at baselayout2_rc6 or so
18:19
<irc>
if the internet is down then the thin
18:19
clients do not get
18:19
<johnny_>
sorry.. no knowledge of ltsp 4.2 here
18:19
<irc>
a gdm screen just a gray screen
18:19
<johnny_>
or any ltsp 4 :(
18:19
ltsp5 doesn't use gdm
18:19
and that is all i know
18:19
<irc>
if I plug in the internet again they all work
18:19
sorry
18:20
<johnny_>
i bet each machine's /etc/hosts does not include the own machine's name
18:20
that's the only time i've seen that happen
18:20
<irc>
but the server,
18:20
the only one that even
18:20
has a harddrive
18:21
<johnny_>
sure.. they still have an /etc/hosts tho..
18:21
on the nfs root
18:21
<irc>
oh
18:21
<johnny_>
it gets mounted somehow so it is readwrite
18:21
some sort of bind mount
18:22
but i'm not sure of the mechanism on ltsp4
18:22
you should come here during europe usa weekday daytime hours
18:22
europe/usa
18:22
<irc>
thanks I will try and disconnect again to see about setting the hosts file /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/hosts
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19:02
<jammcq>
hello friends
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19:47
<herson>
jammcq: hello
19:47
jammcq: i have bad news
19:47
<jammcq>
oh?
19:48
<herson>
Unable to be his coordinator of table in fisl
19:48
<jammcq>
hmm
19:48
why?
19:49
<herson>
When I signed up was late for most
19:49
http://fisl.softwarelivre.org/9.0/papers/pub/programacao/673
19:49
your table coordinator is Mário Meyer
19:49
<jammcq>
ah
19:50
ok
19:50
<herson>
hehehe
19:50
=(
19:50
<jammcq>
well, we can still have churrascurria together
19:50
<herson>
yeah
19:50
:D
19:50
jammcq: you know him?
19:51
<jammcq>
Mario? Umm, I don't remember
19:51
I've probably met him
19:52
<herson>
jammcq: It should be the ltsp-au perhaps
19:52
ltsp-br*
19:52
ltsp-br project over?
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20:45
<sbalneav>
Evening all
20:45
<jammcq>
Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20:46
<sbalneav>
Hey jammcq
20:46
<jammcq>
how u doing?
20:46
<sbalneav>
Just sitting here in the livingroom.
20:46
Chillin :)
20:46
<jammcq>
ah, on the lappy?
20:46
<sbalneav>
Yep!
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21:21
<mistik1>
Oh boy, there is nothing like a client wanting something for one to get off thier bunns and learn something new
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23:48* cpunches dances to secret agent streaming audio channel
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