IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 11 January 2014   (all times are UTC)

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01:28
<effenberg>
ello
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06:20
<Ark74>
hi!
06:20
i'm here away :)
06:20
again :P
06:21
xD
06:22
how can i set up remote logging?
06:23
where does it store it? (@ the server)
06:24
i'm having a funny behavior on one machine
06:24
if i use the autologin it will get a loop trying to boot
06:25
but on a manual login with the same credentials it will start session
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08:04
<alkisg>
Ark74: look at /var/log/auth.log on the server, or at /var/log/ldm.log on the client
08:04
!screen_02
08:04
<ltsp>
screen_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
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08:40
<Ark74>
thanks alkisg, testing....
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09:44
<Ark74>
alkisg, why if i set LDM_AUTOLOGIN with LDM_USER/PASSWD it would try to log as "ltspN", where N is the last ip numbers.
09:44
host sshd[12658]: input_userauth_request: invalid user ltsp54 [preauth]
09:45
<alkisg>
Ark74: what's the output of `getltscfg -a` from screen_02 on that client, when you set LDM_AUTOLOGIN?
09:45
It's LDM_USERNAME and LDM_PASSWORD, btw...
09:46
<Ark74>
yeah
09:46
wait!, again
09:46
"USERNAME"
09:47
not USER?
09:48
<alkisg>
!lts.conf
09:48
<ltsp>
lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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10:06
<Ark74>
i changed the lts.conf file to disable the autologin but it keeps reseting the screen session
10:07
can't get the "getltscfg -a"
10:08
on /var/log/auth.log one of the lines is, pam_winbind(sshd:auth): request wbcLogonUser failed: WBC_ERR_AUTH_ERROR, PAM error: PAM_USER_UNKNOWN (10), NTSTATUS: NT_STATUS_NO_SUCH_USER, Error message was: No such user
10:11
alkisg, i'll rebuild the image this machine is taking me no where
10:11
<alkisg>
Ark74: I don't think that will help
10:11
Put these:
10:11
LDM_AUTOLOGIN=False
10:11
LDM_GUESTLOGIN=True
10:11
LDM_USERNAME=userxxx
10:11
LDM_PASSWORD=passxxx
10:11
And on LDM, press the Login as guest buttong...
10:12
This will use LDM_USERNAME/LDM_PASSWORD too
10:12
Why can't you get the `getltscfg -a`? Put SCREEN_02=shell, SCREEN_07=ldm in lts.conf.
10:13
Ark74: also, you can pastebin your lts.conf for us to take a look...
10:14
<Ark74>
because everytime i get on shell 02, it restart the screen so i'm not even able to write any order
10:15
<alkisg>
OK, so remove LDM_AUTOLOGIN
10:15
Put only LDM_GUESTLOGIN
10:16
<Ark74>
ok, here the current lts.conf http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6731664/
10:17
<alkisg>
Ouch, which distro/version is that?
10:17
NBD_SWAP is a mess...
10:17
LDM_SESSION = "gnome-session --session=gnome-classic
10:17
You're missing the quotes there
10:18
<Ark74>
sorry i missed that one
10:18
they are complete
10:18
:P
10:18
<alkisg>
And, the client settings are commented out...
10:18
It's LDM_PASSWORD
10:18
Not LDM_PASSWD
10:18
<Ark74>
10:19
ok, one step at a time
10:20
first, its Trisquel, a *buntu derivate based on 12.04
10:21
LDM_PASSWD it's wrong, ok. But i have successfully used that on another environment only 1 machine keep reloading
10:21
i'll correct that
10:22
<alkisg>
What is it using? A modified version of gnome-fallback? Or mate?
10:22
<Ark74>
finally, the NBD well, i tried to follow the Ubuntu Documentation on NBD Swap, it works though
10:23
<alkisg>
LDM_PASSWD does not exist anywhere in the ltsp or ldm source code, so you can't have used it successfully without you modifying the code
10:23
<Ark74>
gnome-fallback
10:23
<alkisg>
Possibly, the password on that machine matched the username or the hostname
10:23
<Ark74>
then i'm incredible wrong u_u
10:24
or lucky!
10:24
<alkisg>
So it didn't matter if your put LDM_PASSWD=xxx or LMD_WHATEVER=yyy
10:24
They're completely unknown variables to LTSP, totally unused
10:24
<Ark74>
yeah i guess
10:24
that should explain it
10:27
<alkisg>
So the main innovation of triskel is that it doesn't use binary firmware?
10:27
i.e. it just runs on less hardware?
10:27
<Ark74>
alkisg, nor private software
10:27
one way to look at it
10:27
;)
10:28
<alkisg>
Well, I'd buy hardware that doesn't require properietary firmware,
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10:28
<alkisg>
but I wouldn't roll out a distro that just doesn't include the firmware...
10:28
One can just not install it
10:28
<horochovec>
hello, good morning ;)
10:29
<alkisg>
Hello
10:30
<Ark74>
alkisg, it booted correctly
10:30
<alkisg>
Cool
10:31
<Ark74>
imagine, no wonder i had so many troubles
10:31
i wasn't paying attention to basic stuff ;(
10:31
thanks!
10:31
<alkisg>
You're welcome :)
10:32
<Ark74>
getltscfg -a is bassically the lt.conf settings
10:32
so i guess you don't need that anymore :P
10:32
*lts.conf
10:33
<alkisg>
getltscfg -a shows how the client parses lts.conf
10:33
But that alone doesn't tell all the settings that the client gets
10:33
Anyway, that's a story for another day :)
10:33
<Ark74>
ok
10:34
could i ask, about the NBD section ?
10:34
<alkisg>
The nbd swap is supposed to work out of the box
10:34
Without any settings at all
10:35
Unless if 12.04 doesn't ship an /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/swap.conf file...
10:35
...if so, the wiki should just say "create that file"
10:35
The ubuntu wiki is a mess, it's been ages since some ltsp dev looked at that
10:35
<Ark74>
well, it does "create" https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/EnableNBDSWAP
10:36
...does say "create"...
10:36
yeah, it's really old documentation
10:36
<alkisg>
You don't need *both* swap.conf AND the nbd port etc
10:36
That way you're using 2 swap files...
10:36
Both the old way and the new way...
10:37
nbdswapd: ALL: keepalive => not needed in 12.04 either
10:37
<Ark74>
so the only thing needed is to set the size of the swap?
10:38
<alkisg>
No, just to create swap.conf if it doesn't exist
10:38
The swap size is 512 mb by default
10:40
<Ark74>
swap.conf -> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6731751/
10:47
<alkisg>
Yup, that should be enough
10:48
<Ark74>
alkisg, once again thank you
10:48
<alkisg>
yw
10:48
<Ark74>
i should go to sleep it's almost morning ;)
10:48
see you around
10:49
<alkisg>
Good night
10:50
<Ark74>
ciao!
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11:02
<horochovec>
I have some problem with a specific thinclient
11:02
I'm using Debian 7, LTSP 5
11:03
My thinclient dont start the login screen
11:08
I'm trying a little conf: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6731860/
11:09
just a trident video driver, and all another confs to default, and the splash screen dont appear
11:10
and here is my log at Xorg.0.log http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6731871/
11:10
anyone can help me?
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11:39
<horochovec>
?
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11:47
<horochovec>
anyone can help about trident video driver at ltsp? two days working in this issue :/
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13:54
<ncom0pl>
alkisg: Can I ask You a question regarding LTSP and low-memory thin clients?
13:54
<alkisg>
!ask
13:54
<ltsp>
ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
13:54
<ncom0pl>
Right.
13:55
I've googled a bit and found some irclogs where you speak about setting up thin clients with 128MB RAM.
13:56
You've tried disabling some of the services live cron and dbus to free up some memory.
13:56
like*
13:56
<alkisg>
Yup
13:57
I've implemented an "RM_RAM_THRESHOLD" lts.cont variable that deletes all non-essential services in order to save memory on those clients
13:57
And you can also disable sound, localapps and localdev
13:57
<ncom0pl>
I'm trying to set up such thin clients(It's HP T5520) with 128MB RAM onoard and so far they are not performing so great.
13:57
Aren't localapps disabled by default?
13:57
<alkisg>
No
13:58
Which distro/version again?
13:58
<ncom0pl>
Also I found that a bit strange, 'cause anywhere I look, the manuals, pages say that 128MB RAM and upwards is just enough...
13:58
And I see screenshots of firefox + openoffice running on those.
14:00
<alkisg>
Some manuals were written e.g. 5 years ago when 64 MB RAM was enough too
14:00
And some others, 10 years ago, when 16 was enough...
14:00
<ncom0pl>
Ubuntu server 12.04.3 with the newest version from the greek schools PPA as you advised.
14:00
<alkisg>
Right, so yup that's the best you can do if you want the latest software
14:00
If you're OK with older versions, you could make it go faster and need less RAM
14:01
<ncom0pl>
What I'm trying to achieve there is just to have these clients run a web browser.
14:01
<alkisg>
"just" :)
14:01
<ncom0pl>
Yah, I know :P
14:01
<alkisg>
A web browser is the most demanding thing
14:01
So, all the others are "just", the web browser isn't :)
14:02
But sure you can run a web browser over a client with 128 mb ram
14:02
<ncom0pl>
Does it matter what browser I pick?
14:03
<alkisg>
Firefox runs good enough until it needs to cache pixmaps (e.g. sites with big pictures), then it needs a lot of *local* client memory and it lags a lot
14:03
Chrome* doesn't use much local memory, and that's why it constantly lags a little :D
14:03
<ncom0pl>
Yeah, I just tried chrome.
14:04
<alkisg>
local memory offers speed but with 128 mb clients when ram is exchausted there are great lags because of server-side nbd swapping
14:04
So there's a balance between "usually fast, and at times big lags", or "a bit slower but without great lags"
14:05
<ncom0pl>
I even thought of epiphany and some other less known browsers, I'll try them out.
14:06
<alkisg>
There's no point, there are 2 engines to choose from, gecko or webkit
14:06
<ncom0pl>
The problem I'm facing here is that my thin clients just hang when I try running more demanding apps.
14:06
Or after a short while of running them.
14:06
<alkisg>
More demanding, like impress?
14:06
<ncom0pl>
Like a browser :).
14:07
<alkisg>
Ah, I thought you were saying "more demanding than a browser"
14:07
They shouldn't hang if you have nbd swap
14:07
<ncom0pl>
Nah, the browser is my main goal.
14:07
I do now.
14:07
AAnd they still hand.
14:07
<alkisg>
What's the output of `ps faux` locally on the client?
14:07
And, of this: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
14:07
<ncom0pl>
While a laptop booted via PXE runs just fine.
14:08
<alkisg>
Hanging issues are usually due to ram/bad cabling/graphics drivers
14:08
If you have 512 mb swap, then it's not a ram issue
14:08
It could go really really slow, like, needing 10 minutes to display a web page, but it shouldn't hang from ram
14:08
<ncom0pl>
I figured then could just run slower, but not hand with SWAP enabled.
14:09
hang*
14:09
<alkisg>
OK, pastebin the output of those 2 commands above
14:09
<ncom0pl>
Sure, just a sec.
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14:10
<ncom0pl>
Is it possible to SSH into the client itself?
14:11
<alkisg>
Not by default
14:11
<ncom0pl>
I mean, to the clients console, taht would make it easier to pastebin those...
14:11
<alkisg>
You can use screen_02=shell to login to the client, and then scp the result to the server
14:11
<ncom0pl>
Ok.
14:11
<alkisg>
Or you can install epoptes... or you can install sshd in the chroot... etc
14:12
For those 2 commands you can also do `ltsp-localapps xterm`, if you still have them enabled
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18:17
<ncom0pl>
alkisg: Sorry for disappearing a few hours ago, I had an emergency here and had to go AFK for a longer while.
18:18
So if you're still there, the output of `ps faux` on my thin client is: http://pastebin.com/YBqSQHQ9
18:18
And for `lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA` it's: http://pastebin.com/3PhJsY2r
18:29
<alkisg>
ncom0pl: ok, that's about the best you can do to save memory without going into rmmod'ing modules...
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18:29
<alkisg>
You can also save the udhcpc memory with ipappend 3, but that's a detail, it doesn't take much ram
18:29
I think the via chip has issues, it might be responsible for the hangs
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18:30
<alkisg>
You could try with a VM client to make sure that the 128 MB RAM are enough for your needs
18:33
<ncom0pl>
Darm, yeah I heard some bad stuff about VIA chips too :/.
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18:34
<ncom0pl>
And this this client is VIA-everything.
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18:36
<ncom0pl>
Ok, so disabling sound, localapps, localdev is pretty much all I can do the easy way?
18:40
I'm wondering, would it make any difference if I installed a windows manager insted of a desktop environment?
18:40
Can I even use that with LTSP?
18:41
I mean, obviously it would be easier on the server, but I mean client-wise.
18:45
<alkisg>
ncom0pl: client-side, there's not much less you can do
18:45
Unless you switch to using vnc :)
18:45
Which doesn't use much pixmaps, but sucks performance-wise
18:45
*much _more_ you can do
18:45
You could try with very older distros in the chroot
18:46
E.g. you could use 10.04 or even 8.04
18:46
<ncom0pl>
But then would I have to also use an older version on the server?
18:46
<alkisg>
Maybe the via driver would even be more stable with such old versions
18:46
No, the server can be new, but you'd have to tweak it a bit
18:46
E.g. the nbd configuration...
18:47
How many of those clients do you have?
18:47
<ncom0pl>
Not many, it's actually just a home-server kind of project.
18:47
So I've got 10 machines laying around.
18:47
But I'll probably use 2 or 3 as thin clients with the server
18:48
<alkisg>
I'm not sure if it's worth it to optimize the chroot so much just for 2-3 clients
18:48
What you already did is good enough - unless if you want to use an older distro for stability wrt graphics drivers, not wrt RAM
18:49
<ncom0pl>
I guess I'll play with it a little more and eventually leave it if it eats up too much of my spare time.
18:50
The main problem still is that the client hangs.
18:51
<alkisg>
You can try with a VM to see if it's RAM related (I don't think so) or graphics related
18:52
<ncom0pl>
I'll do that.
18:52
<alkisg>
!kvm
18:52
<ltsp>
kvm: Virtual thin client: kvm -vga vmware -ctrl-grab -kernel /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/vmlinuz -append "append ro initrd=initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/nbd0 ip=:10.160.67.10::" -initrd /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/initrd.img -no-shutdown
18:52
<effenberg>
my clients wont look for pxefile named like their MAC, any hint?
18:53
<alkisg>
effenberg: but other than that they boot ok?
18:53
<effenberg>
fallback to default yes
18:53
and hex ip also
18:54
took my 4h to figure
18:54
<alkisg>
OK, then ask in #syslinux
18:54
<effenberg>
;)
18:54
<alkisg>
:)
18:56
<ncom0pl>
alkisg: One more question related to the graphics on these thin clients. I actually tried running varius distros like dsl and puppy on them(directly/locally, not via ltsp), and the only success with the graphics interface was to use Xvesa, it didn't work otherwise.
18:57
Does it even matter here?
18:57
<alkisg>
ncom0pl: try ubuntu 9.04, one of the best before the KMS era...
18:57
It does matter, yeah. Some graphics drivers worked well only for a few years.
18:58
So _if_ that card ever worked well, it would matter to find the correct driver for it
18:58
Googling with its pci-id is probably the best bet in finding the correct driver, or finding out that there's no driver
18:59
<ncom0pl>
Thanks, that's what I'm gonna do.
19:00
Cause it really seens to be graphics card issue.
19:00
I have one of those clients running debian, a "tiny sever" so to speak.
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19:00
<ncom0pl>
Well, it doesn't have so much RAM left either, but it didn't hang even once.
19:00* alkisg has one too... booting off of a 1 tb disk, with wheezy + lxde :)
19:01
<alkisg>
Via-based as well, though different model. It only hanged due to graphics crashes, not because of its 128 mb ram.
19:03
<ncom0pl>
Where do I even start with using older distro version with LTSP? I have to find/prepare some kind of an image for it, right?
19:03
<alkisg>
I think it has a "distro" parameter in ltsp-build-client
19:03
Or you can just net-share the live cd
19:03
<ncom0pl>
Also sorry for being such a pain-in-the-a and asking newbie questions, it's ok if you don't answer :).
19:04
<alkisg>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDNetboot => *only* the automation section
19:05
<ncom0pl>
So it's possible to use even a different distro in the chroot than on the server?
19:06
<alkisg>
Sure
19:06
You can even have 10 chroots, all with different distros
19:06
<ncom0pl>
I mean could I use some small distro like DSL, TinyCore even though the server is Ubuntu?
19:07
<alkisg>
No, because those don't support ltsp
19:07
But you *could* use XDMCP
19:07
<ncom0pl>
Oh, okay. So I'll google for ones supporting LTSP.
19:07
<alkisg>
Which is completely unrelated to LTSP, but it should work fine for your needs
19:07
ncom0pl: what's your keyboard locale? english only?
19:08
<ncom0pl>
On the thin clients?
19:08
<alkisg>
...the one you want to use...
19:09
Because e.g. tinycorelinux ships with xvesa by default, which doesn't support all locales
19:10
<ncom0pl>
Well, actually it's Polish, but I guess I could ditch that for the sake of performance.
19:10
<alkisg>
Then you could use any distro that supports xdmcp, i.e. most of them
19:10
Some of them even run with 16 mb ram
19:11
<ncom0pl>
SOunds impressive.
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19:58
<ncom0pl>
How do i build another image without overwriting the previus one? And how do I specify which one should be used on which machines?
20:21
Also, does it make a difference server-performance-wise if the clients are running different images compared to running the same image?
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