IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 14 May 2013   (all times are UTC)

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06:39
<wvsfxr>
Is it good practice to use a raspberry pi or beaglebone as thin clients?
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06:52
<work_alkisg1>
pi is a bit slow, works as thin but without localapps. beaglebone is better.
06:52work_alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
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07:08
<wvsfxr>
What is good and cheap thin client hardware to run ubuntu and watching youtube videos?
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07:17
<alkisg>
!flash
07:17
<ltsp`>
flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
07:17
<alkisg>
In other words, plain thin clients are not suitable for youtube
07:18
You need to have the browser and flash working as a localapp
07:18
I can't suggest any specific thin clients as we're using desktop PCs as ltsp clients here, wait for other people's suggestions...
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07:33
<wvsfxr>
I'm thinking about using ltsp at primary school. Youtube is really not a must have. I thought about it because it's the activity which uses the most resources. Moreover there are many useful educational sites unfortunately using flash. But this would not be a problem if there are good alternatives. Do you know some?
07:33
<alkisg>
Alternatives to what? Flash or LTSP?
07:34
<wvsfxr>
flash
07:34
<alkisg>
Primary schools need a lot of multimedia apps, so we suggest to them to use fat clients instead
07:34
(we == the greek schools support team, not the ltsp team)
07:34
!fatclients
07:34
<ltsp`>
fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
07:34
<alkisg>
LTSP fat clients need to have the same specs as normal linux installations, e.g. about 1 gb RAM etc
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08:37* DJUnreal stretches
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09:09
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, any experience with pam_umask?
09:10
<DJUnreal>
ooh
09:10
the Hyperbyte is awake
09:10
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: I tried it once, it worked, but didn't bother with it again... also /me is kinda busy currently, preparing some seminar...
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09:15
<wvsfxr>
What is the real benefit of ltsp?
09:16
<elias_a_>
Uhhh...
09:16
<DJUnreal>
what /isn't/ the benefit?
09:16
<Hyperbyte>
wvsfxr, depends on your use case.
09:17* DJUnreal can write you a list...
09:17
<elias_a_>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Terminal_Server_Project
09:17
<Hyperbyte>
Luckily, you don't have to write a list, DJUnreal.
09:17
It is already written: http://www.ltsp.org/benefits/
09:17
<DJUnreal>
ahh
09:17
Thank You Hyperbyte
09:17
<Hyperbyte>
See that link, wvsfxr :)
09:17
Also, DJUnreal, don't be arrogant. There are lots of disadvantages to using LTSP.
09:19
It just depends heavily on your use case. There are use cases where LTSP is truly a gift from the heavens above, and there are use cases where you simply shouldn't desire to use a terminal server environment.
09:22* DJUnreal isn't being arrogant
09:27
<elias_a_>
In addition to that you might also want to consider the general suitability of client-server model in your case.
09:28
If you are running sw clients in workstations, forget thin clients.
09:35
<DJUnreal>
of course, there's always a suitability study to be done before rolling stuff out
09:36* DJUnreal needs to write some complex jiggery-pokery for his LTSP environment
09:36
<wvsfxr>
Does it make sence to use it for about 30 workstations. I wanted to use Ubuntu with Flash but now I would step back to trisquel with some lightweight graphical user interface. I want to reduce costs. Power consumption and maintainance are true benefits, but initial costs are to much. So I thought abou Raspberry Pi or Beagle Bone. I've never used Beagle Bone. With Raspberry Pi I don't understand how to boot it for use with LTSP.
09:37
elias_a_, what are sw clients in workstations?
09:37
<DJUnreal>
ok... if you want to boot Pis from an LTSP server, you need to put a small image on the SD cards that can understand PXE (or an equivalent technology) for network booting
09:37
there are many howtos for that online
09:38
<elias_a_>
wvsfxr: Like Lotus Notes clients or the like.
09:38
<DJUnreal>
you'll also need an ARM build of your LTSP image
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09:42
<garymc>
Hi Guys I need to flush DNS cache on my LTSP server. How do I go about doing this?
09:42
UBUNTU
09:46
<alkisg>
Do you have a DNS server installed?
09:47
(i.e. bind9 or dnsmasq)
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09:49
<DJUnreal>
Welcome Back garymc
09:49
[10:46] <alkisg> Do you have a DNS server installed?
09:49
[10:47] <alkisg> (i.e. bind9 or dnsmasq)
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10:04* DJUnreal pets the workingcats
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14:33
<unkmar>
Ladies and Gentlemen. I have rebooted my ltsp system and.. Something is not starting when the system comes up.
14:34
alright. so what I gotta do to get tftpd-hpa to start at boot?
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14:38
<unkmar>
I will use rc.local and.. I guess I'll hope works. Thing is already deployed and they need to work. :(
14:38
<DJUnreal>
unkmar: just seen your question
14:38
give me one minute, i've dealt with this before
14:38
<unkmar>
DJUnreal: K
14:39
<DJUnreal>
edit /etc/default/tftpd-hpa
14:39
and add
14:39
RUN_DAEMON="yes"
14:39
<unkmar>
Cause it's just too hard to type both the O and K. :)
14:39
<DJUnreal>
then restart both openbsd-inetd and tftpd-hpa
14:39* DJUnreal has this on debian and it works nicely
14:41
<unkmar>
Thanks.
14:41
<DJUnreal>
reboot your server to confirm
14:41
<unkmar>
No. Clients are using it. :/
14:41
<DJUnreal>
ahh ok
14:41
well it /should/ work
14:42
schedule an out of hours reboot
14:42
<unkmar>
I only downed it to put behind a UPS.
14:42* DJUnreal nods
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14:45
<FN-Kitteh>
bah
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14:45
<DJUnreal>
stupid DDoS still going on?
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15:31
<DJUnreal>
bah
15:31
<unkmar>
yeah?
15:31
Feeling sheepish?
15:32
<DJUnreal>
nah
15:32
bah as in humbug
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15:32
<DJUnreal>
as in stupid DDoS attacks or whatever it is that's knocking me off
15:32
<unkmar>
nah. Um, goatish then. :)
15:32
<DJUnreal>
netsplits etc
15:33
<unkmar>
yeah, Netsplits suck.
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15:33
<DJUnreal>
they do, but they shouldn't disconnect me from the server
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15:33
<DJUnreal>
they should just split me into a shadow of the channel
15:33
Laughs Out Loud
15:33
<unkmar>
I stopped hanging out in #vim because of it. I lose my nick. Have to change it and identify. Can't change nicks while in #vim unindentified.
15:34* DJUnreal nods
15:34
<DJUnreal>
can you not link a second nick to your nickserv identify list?
15:34
and set your client to use the second nick if the first is unavailable?
15:34
<unkmar>
more like a 3rd or 4th or.. Well, I was just a going to investigate that.
15:35
changing nicks real quick.
15:35
nick unkmar
15:35* unkmar smacks forhead. FAIL!
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15:36
<unkmar>
well. That solves that problem. I already own my alternate nick. So, I should ID then change nicks.
15:39
<DJUnreal>
you should
15:39
identify
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15:39
<DJUnreal>
then ghost yourself
15:39
then /nick
15:40muppis_ is now known as muppis
15:40
<unkmar>
Usually no need to ghost. Generally several minutes to an hour pass before I realize the change happened.
15:40
<DJUnreal>
ah fair enoguh
15:40
then yes
15:40
identify and then /nick
15:43* DJUnreal has a question which some of you may be able to answer
15:44
<DJUnreal>
has anyone built a small kernel image
15:44
to hand out to pxe clients
15:44
which interrogates them for a few key bits of info
15:44
and then adds that to an lts.conf ?
15:46* DJUnreal has a specific reason for wanting to do this
15:47* unkmar has not done anything like that.
15:49
<DJUnreal>
basically... i often go places and have unknown machines provided for me to use as my thinclients
15:49
now i /could/ build a 'safe' image for all the clients
15:49
but it'll be so archaic that it's quite frankly a waste of computing resources to run it on newer and potentially fat clients
15:49
so instead what i want to do
15:50
is have the machine boot a small kernel
15:50
run some custom scripts (like one which interrogates /proc/cpuinfo to find out cpu architecture and speed)
15:50
and another to work out how much RAM the machine has, what gfx card it uses etc
15:50
<muppis>
Take a look at here. http://kernel-seeds.org/
15:51
<DJUnreal>
and then dump the outputs of that back into my dhcpd.conf and lts.conf files
15:51
followed by an automatic reboot
15:51
followed by coming back up with a now-identified-and-configured-mac-address
15:51
so probably needing a dhcpd restart in the process
15:52
<unkmar>
DJUnreal: sounds complicated. Creating a bitcoin farm? :P
15:52
<DJUnreal>
no
15:52* DJUnreal runs his LTSP environment for scout groups
15:52
<DJUnreal>
and we go to various different sites
15:52
<unkmar>
Cool
15:52
<DJUnreal>
with various different machines to use as clients
15:52
and we just rock up with our server stack
15:52
so rather than sending my boys round to write down all the MAC addresses and manually harvest all the info
15:53
i want to just get them to turn on PXE boot
15:53
and then have them automatically configure the image they're going to receive
15:53
the reason for graphics identification is because the kids tend to like to play flash games
15:53
which suck if you don't have proper drivers for the cards the machines have in them
15:54
plus... it looks far more professional if we're not sat there shouting MACs at each other or scribbling furiously on bits of paper
15:55
muppis: i'll take a look :)
15:55
For What It's Worth i run http://www.scoutinternetsupport.org.uk
15:55
proudly powered by LTSP
15:56
<unkmar>
DJUnreal: That has got to be some serious geek going on. Setup a camera before hand next time. I'd watch a video of a bunch of kids shouting MACs for about a minute. GeekScouts.
15:57* DJUnreal grins
15:57
<DJUnreal>
we've timelapsed the setup of our systems at an event before now
15:59
oh... and just to show we do cool stuff (including IRC) at some events
15:59
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=459619480757537&set=a.459619360757549.115886.229400953779392&type=3&theater
15:59
me running a radio show at a scout camp
16:00
<unkmar>
I have some speakers just like that.
16:00
Nice keyboard.
16:04
<DJUnreal>
HeHe
16:04
Cyborg V7
16:04
and under my hand is a Cyborg R.A.T. 9
16:04* DJUnreal doesn't do things by halves
16:04* DJUnreal would LOVE to replace the cyborg V7 with a S.T.R.I.K.E. 7
16:05
<DJUnreal>
but i can't justify that kinda dosh
16:05* unkmar wanders what is on right screen. The large colorful text window.
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16:05
<DJUnreal>
that's IRC
16:06
<unkmar>
s/wanders/wonders.
16:06* DJUnreal uses QuackScript as a script-set on top of mIRC
16:06
<unkmar>
Hmm why so colorful?
16:06
<DJUnreal>
the network I'm on there get upset if you idle
16:06
so names turn yellow after 20 mins
16:06
orange after 25
16:06
red after 30
16:06
text i send is white
16:06
text i see from others is yellow
16:07
emotive text is grey unless i send it in which case it's white
16:07
text containing my nick is dark cyan
16:07
<unkmar>
mIRC, I haven't used that in years. been using irssi since I move to linux.
16:07
<DJUnreal>
quits are purple
16:07
<jammcq>
DJUnreal: that's pretty cool
16:07
<DJUnreal>
joins are orange
16:07
parts are green
16:07
jammcq: i like to do things properly
16:08
if a job's worth doing, it's worth doing well. if it's not worth doing, give it to my brother
16:08
<unkmar>
LOL
16:08
<DJUnreal>
the person i suggest giving jobs to often changes
16:09
but the phrase tends to be fairly similar
16:09
but yeah
16:09
that's why i use LTSP
16:09
and that's why i need a base kernel i can get to do clever things
16:10* DJUnreal will put ssh keys in it for root, just so it can talk back to update the relevant files
16:10
<DJUnreal>
i'd rather my genesis kernel (name xCAT2 uses for its minikernel) talks back as root for a very short time, than my dhcpd.conf and lts.conf files be open to all users
16:11
especially if the minikernel can be locked down so it won't take any input at all
16:11
of course... i may have to do something a little more sophisticated
16:12
like script it to write to a different file
16:12
then have a cron that runs every 15 seconds to parse that other file, and if it changes, tack it onto the relevant part of dhcpd.conf and lts.conf and then restart dhcpd
16:12
wiping the file clean afterwards
16:13
but an ininterruptable autoscript kernel should do the job
16:13
uninterruptable even
16:13freedomrun has left IRC (freedomrun!~freedomru@unaffiliated/freedomrun, Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish)
16:14
<unkmar>
^^^ 42
16:14abernstein has left IRC (abernstein!~bernste4@ganymede.medien.uni-weimar.de, Quit: leaving)
16:14* DJUnreal laughs
16:14
<DJUnreal>
so sad that it should come to this...
16:15
<unkmar>
That is still quite crazy. Starting a story off with the destruction of the Earth. Like, WHAT? :)
16:15* DJUnreal grins
16:15
<DJUnreal>
so... did you like the photo on our website of the "field test"?
16:15
<unkmar>
Yes.
16:16
<DJUnreal>
that was a VERY small-scale rig
16:16
nothing major... twin switches linked with 10Gbit fibre
16:16
two eServer x346s
16:17
incidentally... 10G fibre runs nicely across the top of a tent if you hang it from the poles in cable-tie loops
16:21
</geek>
16:22
<unkmar>
Like </geek> is possible in a channel like this. :D
16:22
<DJUnreal>
;)
16:22
well it was worth a try
16:26
and on that note
16:26
i'm going home
16:27
<unkmar>
be safe
16:27
<DJUnreal>
i'll try
16:27
got an hour on the motorbike
16:27
;)
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16:38
<digitalirony>
Hello, I am trying to edit the LDM greeter. I basically want to disable the 'preferences' button. Is there documentation on the greeter-gtkrc file somewhere? Or does someone know how to do this?
16:41
and also I think ltsp.org is down
16:42Phantomas has left IRC (Phantomas!~Phantomas@ubuntu/member/phantomas, Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
16:42
<jammcq>
hmmm
16:43
<Enslaver>
no bueno
16:43
<digitalirony>
que es no bueno?
16:43
<Enslaver>
el downtime
16:43
<digitalirony>
ahh yeah
16:44
<Enslaver>
S3 hosting time
16:44
<unkmar>
I don't know spanish and yet I understood that.
16:44
<digitalirony>
doesn't even have a static failover in front either :/
16:45
<Enslaver>
About to push 5.4.5-20 release for EL6 to EPEL
16:45
just passed its 2 week testing phase
16:45
<jammcq>
ok, ltsp.org is back up
16:45
Enslaver: excellent!
16:45
<digitalirony>
thanks jammcq
16:46
<Enslaver>
The EL6 community seems to be getting bigger and bigger, i've had a few people come to me already wanting to help out with the development
16:46
<jammcq>
hmm, all I did was restart apache. I think I'll reboot the machine. our hosting provider was doing some maintenance last weekend and said we may need to reboot afterwards
16:46
<digitalirony>
jammcq: did the logs say anything?
16:50ltsp has joined IRC (ltsp!bot@ltsp.org)
16:51
<Enslaver>
seems stable, i like the fact it supports both 4.2 and 5
16:54stgraber has joined IRC (stgraber!~stgraber@ubuntu/member/stgraber)
16:55
<digitalirony>
I wanna try the gecko surfboards
16:55
only $120 each, and much cheaper in bulk
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17:01
<gvy>
hm, interesting
17:02
<digitalirony>
if I can get the LTSP working here pretty well, I am gonna think about just replacing all of the workstations with those surfboards instead of new PC's
17:02
<Enslaver>
raspberry pi's are only $35
17:03
<digitalirony>
yeah, but they don't have built in keyboards....and believe it or not we spend a lot on keyboards
17:03
<Enslaver>
on keyboards?
17:03
keyboards are like $5
17:03
<digitalirony>
and I am not sure how easy it will be to get 100 raspbery pi's
17:03
right
17:04
but these asshat students here always kick the damn cables and fuck them up bad
17:04
the surfboard doesn't have cables
17:04
cept power and monitor
17:05
<Enslaver>
what about something like the lapdock?
17:05
http://liliputing.com/2012/06/turn-a-raspberry-pi-into-laptop-with-a-70-motorola-lapdock.html
17:06
mass order rasp's: http://www.alliedelec.com/lp/120626raso/
17:06
<digitalirony>
hrmm the lapdocs are neat, but kinda ugly I think
17:06
<jammcq>
skanous | DOSESPOT | npi | 1043278476 | f | 2012-09-14 17:41:27.086135-04 | 2012-09-14 17:41:27.086135-04
17:07
<digitalirony>
if I was gonna go that route, I think I would buy one of the stick PC's
17:07
<jammcq>
ooops :)
17:07
<gvy>
digitalirony, you probably need wall-mounted
17:07
erm... either PCs or students
17:07
<digitalirony>
lol
17:07
the students wouldn't like if I wall mounted them
17:07
lol
17:08
well, some of the women might....
17:08
but thats just a law suit waiting to happen
17:10
hrmm jammcq I think website died again?
17:11
hrmm no, it just going slow
17:11
<jammcq>
yeah, it's just dreadfully slow
17:11
<digitalirony>
do you guys need/want help with that?
17:14
<gvy>
jammcq, just in case, nginx as a reverse proxy helps immensely with reducing the number of almost idle apache children trinkling the already-generated content into slowish [mobile/dialup] clients
17:14
*trickling
17:14
<digitalirony>
yeah
17:14adrianorg_ has joined IRC (adrianorg_!~adrianorg@177.156.231.243)
17:14
<digitalirony>
and if your website can support using it, memcached
17:15
<gvy>
folks at mozilla.ru persuaded me look in that direction by claiming their capability increased 7x or so
17:15
<digitalirony>
I worked for hostgator and rackspace as LAMP admin heh
17:15
for over 2 years
17:15
that was intense stuff
17:16
<unkmar>
I'm experiencing a WOMM error in my website development. Works On My Machine.
17:16andygraybeal has joined IRC (andygraybeal!~andy@h153.229.22.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)
17:17
<digitalirony>
prolly missing lib
17:17
or different versions of php etc
17:18adrianorg has left IRC (adrianorg!~adrianorg@177.156.231.243, Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
17:18
<digitalirony>
compare copies of an info.php file on your home machine, vs the remote
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17:47
<DJUnreal>
yeesh
17:47
you lot have been busy whilst i was gone
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18:46* DJUnreal stretches
18:46* unkmar yawns
18:46
<unkmar>
Nice to see you made it home safely.
18:46
<DJUnreal>
been here an hour...
18:47
Laughs Out Loud
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19:18* DJUnreal considers cooking
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19:47
<lykwydchykyn>
On Ubuntu 12.04, I need to support some non-pae clients
19:47klausade has joined IRC (klausade!~klaus@cm-84.215.153.179.getinternet.no)
19:48
<lykwydchykyn>
I added linux-image-generic to my build list, but it still installs the pae kernel
19:48
is there some switch I can pass to ltsp-build-client to uninstall or not install the pae kernel?
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19:50
<||cw>
lykwydchykyn: you mean like an old 586?
19:51
<lykwydchykyn>
No, a pentium-M
19:52
<||cw>
ah. yet another ubuntu bad default
19:52
first cmov, now pae
19:52
um... I think there is a flag to ltsp-build-client to control packages, I don't know it off the top of my head though
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19:55
<digitalirony>
hrmm
19:56
<lykwydchykyn>
There are flags to add additional packages to the build, but I don't see a flag to block or remove packages.
19:56
<digitalirony>
wouldn't you have to modify the dhcp server to serv a different boot image based on the mac?
19:56
<lykwydchykyn>
I suppose I can chroot in and remove the pae kernel, but I'm trying to make this a hands-free rebuild
19:57
The thing is, I don't need PAE for any of my clients; none of them have more than 2GB of RAM
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19:57
<digitalirony>
oh
19:58
I bet you will have to do that manually if you want it to work
19:58
heh
19:58
iunno, im new to LTSP
20:00
im THINKING though, that you may have to chroot, then install a diff kernel
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20:01
<digitalirony>
lykwydchykyn: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/man8/ltsp-build-client.8.html iunno if you have seen that?
20:02
but they have a --dist and a --arch flag, not sure what you can pass to those though
20:02
<lykwydchykyn>
Oh I've seen it once or thrice
20:03
<digitalirony>
but I don't see anything actually kernel specific
20:03
<lykwydchykyn>
--dist let's you choose a release, which seems kind of useless since (IME) it only actually works with the same release.
20:04
my --arch is i386
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20:06
<lykwydchykyn>
Would be nice if there was a way to view possible values for --arch, or at least some documentation to that effect.
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20:06
<lykwydchykyn>
Sorry, I'm getting ranty
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20:07
<||cw>
ltsp-build-client --extra-help ?
20:08
maybe --exclude the non-pae package?
20:09
<lykwydchykyn>
You mean --exclude the pae kernel?
20:09
<||cw>
er, yeah
20:10
<lykwydchykyn>
I'll give that a shot; thanks, I missed the --exclude option
20:10
<||cw>
though really, juts build the chroot, then modify it as needed before building the image
20:11
<lykwydchykyn>
The thing is, I'm trying to script this to avoid errors.
20:11
<digitalirony>
I suggest you learn expect then
20:11
heh
20:11
<||cw>
you really need to run it more than once?
20:11
<digitalirony>
it will make it much easier
20:12
you can script it using expect
20:12
<lykwydchykyn>
I've had to patch on so many fixes and so forth that yes, I have to rebuild these dadgum things regularly
20:12alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg)
20:13
<||cw>
can't just apply the patches in the chroot?
20:14
<lykwydchykyn>
What I mean ||cw is that I have had to make so many changes to the chroot to fix problems over the years that remembering them all every time I rebuild the image is a mess.
20:14
What I do now is maintain a script that builds the image with all the fixes and tweaks in place.
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20:15
<digitalirony>
well, why not make a script, and run it from inside of the chroot?
20:15
<lykwydchykyn>
Because not all the fixes are inside the chroot
20:16
<digitalirony>
well, maybe you need two scripts :/
20:16
<lykwydchykyn>
If I can have one, that's a lot better
20:16Enslaver has joined IRC (Enslaver!~Enslaver@fedora/Enslaver)
20:16
<lykwydchykyn>
Hence my initial question, which is hopefully answered by the --exclude switch
20:16
<digitalirony>
or like I said, you can learn expect, and you can pass 'focus' between threads and such
20:17
with expect, you could run your script outside of the chroot, and it would chroot, and still run commands, and send them to the chroot
20:17
<lykwydchykyn>
To a limited extent, I can already script things in the chroot from outside with ltsp-chroot
20:18
<digitalirony>
yeah, but I see your bug here
20:18
<||cw>
lykwydchykyn: can this not be solved simply by putting the non-pae kernel in the pxe config?
20:18
<digitalirony>
but the documentation seems limited
20:18
and as do your options
20:18
<||cw>
I'm not sure why the presense of a pae kernel would affect anything
20:18
<digitalirony>
thats what I was thinking too
20:18
but I just assumed it didn't work on the intel-m or something
20:19
<lykwydchykyn>
I suppose that might be an option.
20:19
<||cw>
well, it's a file setting there un-used
20:19
<digitalirony>
but as long as its not booted into it, I don't see why it matters?
20:19
as long as you set the non-pae to default/boot
20:19
<||cw>
you can have both kernels installed, and control what clients get what kernel in pxe
20:20
<digitalirony>
and you could even serv different pxe from your dhcp server based on mac address
20:20
<lykwydchykyn>
I don't really need any of them booting to a pae kernel
20:20
<digitalirony>
then just set them all to boot to non pae?
20:20
<lykwydchykyn>
I'll try that if the exclude thing doesn't work
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20:23
<alkisg>
lykwydchykyn: do you have the wrongly built chroot handy, to post the results of some package versions?
20:23Enslaver has joined IRC (Enslaver!~Enslaver@fedora/Enslaver)
20:24
<lykwydchykyn>
you mean the one with the pae kernel?
20:24
<alkisg>
Yes
20:24
/usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/020-kernel-selection supposedly selects the non-pae kernel...
20:25
And I'm also wondering if you got the normal xorg, or the -lts-quantal one
20:26
sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -l 'linux*' xserver-xorg xserver-xorg-lts-quantal | grep ^ii
20:27
<lykwydchykyn>
No quantal stuff
20:27
I'm using the 3.2 kernel
20:27
<alkisg>
What's the output of that command?
20:28
<lykwydchykyn>
Where can I paste it?
20:28
<alkisg>
!pastebin
20:28
<ltsp>
pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
20:29
<lykwydchykyn>
http://pastebin.com/R6Frwpx6
20:29
should /usr/share/ltsp/plugins be on the server or chroot?
20:29
<alkisg>
Server
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20:30
<alkisg>
Does this show an "ok" at the end? sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-cache show linux-image-generic && echo ok
20:31
<digitalirony>
hrmm
20:31
do you have only pae kernels installed?
20:31
<alkisg>
And also, why the headers? Are you building a fat chroot?
20:32
<lykwydchykyn>
yep, it says ok
20:32
I have the headers because I have some dkms packages
20:32
nvidia-current and the r8168 driver for some NICs
20:33
BTW --exclude did not work to prevent the pae kernel from installing
20:34
<alkisg>
It should default to the non-pae kernel anyway, so something else is probably wrong there
20:35
<digitalirony>
well, im going on break, good luck. I will be interested to see how this turns out though o.0
20:36
<alkisg>
Are you using --arch=i386?
20:36
<lykwydchykyn>
I hadn't specified, but the server is running 32bit
20:36
Can --arch specify pae or non-pae?
20:37
<alkisg>
Try with --arch=i386
20:38
I have a feeling that without that, ARCH is empty, and that's why the not pae kernel is not selected
20:38
<lykwydchykyn>
alrighty; it'll take a bit to rerun the script, we'll see
20:53
<alkisg>
DJUnreal: you can have pxelinux.cfg/default point to a non-pae 32 bit kernel with a customized initrd, that would contain an init-bottom script that detects what you want, and then `nc` the info back to your server, and reboot,
20:54
and an inetd-based daemon that gets the output of nc, and creates customized pxelinux.cfg/01-mac-address files with all the needed info
20:54
<digitalirony>
does anyone know about modifying LDM themes/greeter?
20:54
I want to disable the 'preferences' button
20:54
<DJUnreal>
alkisg: that sounds about right
20:54
<alkisg>
DJUnreal: That way each client is only able to modify a single file under pxelinux.cfg/, they don't mess with your lts.conf or dhcpd.conf
20:55
All known clients boot with pxelinux.cfg/01-xxx, and all unknown with the generic kernel + initrd,
20:55
and you can add the lts.conf options you want in the kernel command line
20:56
digitalirony: all of it? or just the session and language bits?
20:56
(because the last 2 are configurable from lts.conf)
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20:57
<digitalirony>
I just want to remove the ability for someone to change the preferences
20:57
my users are tarded, and I don't want them changing the backend, or session options
20:57
<alkisg>
LDM_FORCE_SESSION then, it hides that menu
20:58
<digitalirony>
sweet
20:58
<alkisg>
man lts.conf
20:58
<digitalirony>
is that documented?
20:58
<alkisg>
Yup
20:58
<digitalirony>
I didn't see that one there
20:58
just defualt
20:58
default
20:58
<DJUnreal>
alkisg: i need to keep this semi-idiot-friendly for my admins... hence wanting to update the lts.conf
20:58
<lykwydchykyn>
Ok, specifying the --arch didn't make any difference
20:58
<alkisg>
digitalirony: I updated the docs after 12.04, look in 12.10 or in wheezy docs
20:58
<DJUnreal>
it's bad enough having two .conf files for the i386 and amd64 archs
20:58
<digitalirony>
ahh ok
20:58
thanks
20:59
<lykwydchykyn>
I'm still getting only the pae kernel
21:00
<alkisg>
DJUnreal: you may put ltsp.like=section1,section2 entries in the kernel command line, so that lts.conf is used, without having the clients write to it
21:00
<digitalirony>
alkisg: it only hides the session menu though right?
21:00
<alkisg>
digitalirony: there's another one for the language, and I think there's something to hide the backend too
21:01
<DJUnreal>
ahh, i'm with you now
21:01
<digitalirony>
I was looking for one for the backend
21:01
language is fine
21:01
<alkisg>
lykwydchykyn: I'd consider that a bug... but no time to troubleshoot now
21:01
<digitalirony>
I don't see a force_server
21:01
<DJUnreal>
so i can pass the LIKE entries through the kernel options instead of in the file, but at the same time maintain the same ease of management
21:02
<alkisg>
digitalirony: LDM_FORCE_BACKEND, I don't know if that one is documented though
21:02
<digitalirony>
its an actual setting though?
21:03
do you know what the options/format is?
21:03
<alkisg>
ldm.c: /* if a backend is forced, leave no choice */
21:03
if (!getenv("LDM_FORCE_BACKEND")) {
21:03
<digitalirony>
sweet, thanks man
21:03* DJUnreal would assume alkisg knows the options/format since he wrote it?
21:03* DJUnreal grins
21:03
<alkisg>
DJUnreal: nah, I try to stay away from the ldm source code :)
21:04
I'm looking forward to the pam-based authentication plugin...
21:04
<DJUnreal>
try but fail?
21:04
<alkisg>
digitalirony: try "ssh" there
21:04
<digitalirony>
k
21:04
<alkisg>
Yeah a couple of times I had to dive into its source :D
21:04* DJUnreal laughs
21:05
<digitalirony>
is it a string?
21:05
like requires quotes?
21:05
meh, I will just try it
21:05
<alkisg>
LDM_FORCE_BACKEND=ssh or "ssh", lts.conf doesn't care about quotes or not
21:06
XRANDR_MODE_0=1024x768 or "1024x768", whatever you prefer
21:06
<DJUnreal>
it seems like lts.conf is indifferent to a lot of things
21:06
spaces, tabs, quotes...
21:07
all the usual stuff :)
21:07
<digitalirony>
just making sure :P
21:10
<lykwydchykyn>
alkisg: at what point in the boot process is it supposed to fall back to the non-pae kernel? I'm just wondering if my edits to the pxelinux.cfg file are affecting this feature.
21:11
<alkisg>
lykwydchykyn: well, you only have the -pae kernel, so pxelinux.cfg/default will only have that
21:11
If you had both kernels, then pxelinux.cfg/default would point to the non-pae one
21:11
And it's possible to autodetect the kernel to use with ifcpu64
21:12
The next thing to do is to run ltsp-build-client with debug output, to check why it doesn't install the non-pae kernel
21:12
<DJUnreal>
wait wait wait...
21:12
ifcpu64 detects cpu architecture?
21:12
<alkisg>
Yup, and can load 32bit/pae/64bit accordingly
21:13
<DJUnreal>
that's the single biggest thing i've been trying to achieve!!!
21:13
<alkisg>
ltsp supports that with ltsp-update-kernels.conf
21:13
...and with that, /me waves goodnight to all....
21:13
<DJUnreal>
thanks alkisg!
21:13
<lykwydchykyn>
thanks for the help
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21:16
<digitalirony>
damn
21:17
the LDM_FORCE_SESSION doesn't work :/
21:17
<DJUnreal>
it should do
21:17
it did for me
21:17
<digitalirony>
maybe its my version
21:17
the force backend totally worked
21:18
<DJUnreal>
hrmm
21:18
what are you passing to ldm_force_session?
21:18
<digitalirony>
gnome-classic
21:19
as listed in /usr/share/xesssions/
21:19
its ubuntu 12.04 ltsp25
21:22
<DJUnreal>
i wonder if force_session only works on newer versions
21:26
<digitalirony>
thats what I was thinking
21:26
meh
21:26
when I go live with it, I will just run it off 12.10
21:27
i really would prefer it run off LTS though :/
21:27
<DJUnreal>
can you not install a newer ltsp on an older ubuntu?
21:28
<digitalirony>
not if you want it to be managed with apt I don't think
21:28
or getting really messy
21:28
if imma do that, I will just build it on arch o.0
21:29
<DJUnreal>
i see
21:29
or, if you felt like stabbing yourself repeatedly in the eye with a needle... you could do it on gentoo
21:29
<digitalirony>
noooo thanks
21:29
see, thats why I like arch lolol
21:29
its like gentoo + debian
21:30
<DJUnreal>
why not just make life easy and use debian like a sane person would? :P
21:30
<digitalirony>
it has all the flexibiltiy of gentoo, and much of the feel of debian
21:30
debian is too old sometimes
21:30
<DJUnreal>
too old for what?
21:30
<digitalirony>
new features
21:30
lol
21:30
<DJUnreal>
features like what?
21:31
<digitalirony>
I can't think anything off the top of my head, but I used debian for 8 years
21:31
and I have switched to arch, because on debian when I try to install something that isn't in the repos
21:31
I have a hell of time getting it to work with the old versions that are considered 'stable'
21:31
<DJUnreal>
and /that's/ why i use testing
21:32
<digitalirony>
have you never heard the joke " Yo mommas so old, Debian added her to the stable repository!"
21:32* lykwydchykyn LOLs
21:32
<digitalirony>
yeah, but then testing has its own issues too
21:32* DJUnreal hadn't heard that until now
21:32
<DJUnreal>
and i've never yet had a problem with debian testing :)
21:32
<digitalirony>
iunno, DJUnreal I had this same arguement with a friend of mine
21:33
then I actually just tried arch
21:33* DJUnreal grins
21:33
<digitalirony>
and now im good
21:33
lol
21:33
<DJUnreal>
i'm just working on personal experience
21:33
<digitalirony>
I know
21:33
<DJUnreal>
i've been using debian testing and the latest kernels for a while and it's never caused me issues :)
21:33
<digitalirony>
I said all the same things you did, but, sometimes you can't see the shit around you unless you look from outside
21:34
that is to say "You can't really ever see the forest while inside the forest"
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21:35
<DJUnreal>
two blondes are out walking. one says to the other "isn't that a lovely forest?" and the other replies "what forest? I can't see, there's too many trees in the way!"
21:38
conversation died at 22:36
21:38
<digitalirony>
lol
21:38
I was just reading this crazy news story
21:39
about IRS scandal
21:39* DJUnreal sings o/" Hey, I just met you, and this is crazy... o/"
21:40
<digitalirony>
heh
21:40
now a video with men simulating labor pain
21:40
lol
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