IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 4 February 2012   (all times are UTC)

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00:34
<vagrantc>
stgraber: ldm 2.2.5-1 uploaded to debian ... pushed and tagged in bzr repos, too.
00:45
<stgraber>
vagrantc: cool, thanks. I'll sync it into Ubuntu once I see it.
00:53
<vagrantc>
stgraber: will be happy to see zero diff!
00:53
<stgraber>
yep, that'll be nice ;) next step, LTSP itself ;) well, this one will be tricky if at all possible :)
00:53
at least reducing the delta a bit would be nice for ltsp
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01:01
<vagrantc>
i was hoping to make an upload of ltsp to debian today, but didn't really have enough time for testing
01:03
oh, some of the NBD variable name changes may require a newer version of ltsp...
01:03
hope to get that sorted out by monday.
01:22
stgraber: what all does the ltsp-livecd stuff entail?
01:24
<stgraber>
not much really, it should be split as a separate source package (it's already a separate binary package)
01:24
it's just a UI configuring network-manager, installing the minimum set of LTSP packages, created 254 accounts and configuring lts.conf
01:25
so it's basically a one click LTSP that's not secure at all but works fine from a live CD and offers guest login sessions for any machine booting on the network
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01:34
<vagrantc>
not much but so much, sounds like :)
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03:57
<VectorX>
hi need some help, got a thin client that was working fine, plugged it in after about a week and getting this error, http://i30.fastpic.ru/big/2012/0204/aa/2c12035b97d0778a6d18da097d2402aa.jpg
04:00
the Xorg.7.log file doesnt seem to exist
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05:42
<alkisg>
stgraber, highvoltage: instead of generating 254 accounts, we could make an nbd-server preconnect script that sees the client IP (e.g. 192.168.0.123) and creates the accounts on the fly (username: ltsp123, password: ltsp123). Do you want me to provide an initial implementation for that?
05:44
VectorX: what are your X_* settings in lts.conf for this client? Do you have the nvidia drivers installed in the chroot?
05:46
<VectorX>
alkisg the server had a nvidia card, i took it out and am running hd3000 from the mobo, i have not installed any drivers other than that
05:46
there are no client specific items that i know of
05:46
<alkisg>
It's weird that it tries to load the nvidia driver instead of nouveau
05:47
Put SCREEN_07=shell for this client
05:47
There, run lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA, to see the graphics card, driver etc
05:47
Then try X -configure
05:47
<VectorX>
well screen is set to rdp as default but ill try
05:49
<vagrantc>
alkisg: that sounds cool!
05:49
<alkisg>
vagrantc: which one? the dynamic user generation?
05:49
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the preconnect thing
05:49
<alkisg>
Yeah we could do a lot of things there
05:49
<vagrantc>
alkisg: could also hook it into ldminfod or something
05:51
<alkisg>
Indeed... we could even provide an "authentication" phase if we wanted
05:51
Like joining a machine to active directory, which requires a password, we could be asking on the client side for a password and "register" the machine and create a user account etc
05:52
Irrellevant: S15-userLoginCheck should come after S20-restrictUser
05:52
There's no point in killing user processes if the user is not allowed to login there
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05:53
<alkisg>
Can I replace S15-userLoginCheck with a script similar to the one I pasted yesterday, which saves session information in e.g. ~/.cache/ltsp/session.* ?
05:53
...and put it to S21?
05:55
S15-userLoginCheck now kills all ssh connections, not just ltsp connections, right?
05:55
<vagrantc>
probably
05:57
sounds like it could be better.
06:00
<alkisg>
OK I'll do that and if someone complains we can always revert it :)
06:00
Since we have more info now, would you care to rephrase the message we display? E.g. you're alread logged in at $HOSTNAME, $VT etc?
06:01
Or that message is translated and I shouldn't touch it?
06:09
<VectorX>
alkisg can i reboot the clients using the server ?
06:10
<alkisg>
vagrantc: https://git.ipxe.org/ipxe.git/commit/fcc35bf48776fff9ebfd8db537679583221a9cd4 ==> In git one can have a commit line and an extended description line. Can we do that in bzr? I think it would be a nice place to have the comments about e.g. the S15 => S21 change etc...
06:11
VectorX: only if you're using a remote control application like epoptes, or if they're already logged in and you write a small script to do that
06:17
<VectorX>
cant seem to get SCREEN_07=shell to work, the machine that works ends up in a blank screen and the other gets stuck on the ubuntu init screen with 3 dots white on the second pass
06:19
<alkisg>
!quiet-splash
06:19
<ltsp>
alkisg: quiet-splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run `sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default` and remove quiet splash .
06:20
<alkisg>
That's to avoid the dots and see the actualy problems
06:20
Also try with a very simple lts.conf, like
06:20
[Default]
06:20
SCREEN_07=shell
06:20
without anything else
06:20
<VectorX>
yeah thats what i got
06:30
alkisg: http://i28.fastpic.ru/big/2012/0204/48/5bdd9b159533b68cff7745055b3ca148.jpg
06:31
http://i32.fastpic.ru/big/2012/0204/ea/fde211a7edee4abad5dc999485d198ea.jpg
06:31
configuration failed!
06:32
<alkisg>
VectorX: it reports a problem with the vmware driver there, did you install that manually?
06:33
<VectorX>
i installed virtualbox but not vmware
06:33
<alkisg>
You installed the virtualbox additions in the chroot?
06:34
<VectorX>
vbox on the server not in the chroot
06:35
<alkisg>
Did you run ltsp-update-kernels when you last ran ltsp-update-image?
06:36
Otherwise the tftp kernel won't match the nbd kernel...
06:37
<VectorX>
yeah
06:37
just did it like 20 mins ago
06:37
and updated keys
06:38
<alkisg>
Other than that, it doesn't sound related to ltsp at all... maybe ask in #ubuntu-x or similar
06:41
vagrantc: similar to the description of .deb packages, we can have descriptions in bzr consisting of a one-line header, an empty line, and a multiline comment. Then bzr log --line only shows the one-line description header.
06:41
Should we start using commits like those in ltsp? (of course not all of them, only for the ones where a long comment actually makes sense)
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07:22
<highvoltage>
alkisg: that sounds nice! yes I think you should.
07:39
<alkisg>
OK, let me reboot to precise where we're using nbd-server instead of inetd, as I don't think that inetd exposes the client IP...
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07:55
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i usually use bzr log --short ... but sometimes it can be hard to have a meaningful short commit
07:56
too many of our commit messages are too short, in my opiinion... if there's a technical way to improve that, sure, would be nice ... but will people do it? :)
07:57
<alkisg>
vagrantc: just mentioning in the "coding style readme" that that's what we prefer is enough, I think
07:57
That way anyone that feels like commenting his commit may do so
07:58
Others that don't want to, can continue with one-line descriptions
07:58
bzr log --short --line would be required to skip the multiline comments
07:58
<vagrantc>
does bzr log --line only show the first line anyways?
07:58
<alkisg>
Yes
07:59
But up to now we had extremely long lines, not multiline comments,
07:59
and at some times I had to send a mail to the developers list and explain the commit, and link to the mail in the commit
07:59
<vagrantc>
log --line overrides --short
08:00
<alkisg>
Which sounds stupid - it'd be better if the explanation was in the commit itself
08:00
<vagrantc>
yes, i'd like to avoid the long lines ...
08:00
i have to pipe all the changelogs through | fmt
08:01
i think that's because people typically use -m on the commandline, rather than starting an editor?
08:01
<alkisg>
highvoltage: Unfortunately I think that neither nbd-server nor inetd provide the client IP to the scripts. So we'd need a small standalone daemon, either in inetd/shell, or in python
08:01
vagrantc: you can do bzr commit -m 'one line
08:01
second line'
08:02
<vagrantc>
but who does?
08:02
<alkisg>
Who knows that he can do that? :D
08:02* vagrantc always uses an editor
08:02
<alkisg>
I didn't even know that multiline comments were allowed, much less that it would be a good practise...
08:02
If someone told me, I would do that
08:03
<vagrantc>
ok, so we encourage in the codeingstyle stuffs.
08:03
<alkisg>
Sounds good
08:03
Let's also mention about the dots in the end of the commit lines
08:03
Commit message.
08:04* vagrantc -> sleep
08:05
<vagrantc>
didn't get a new version of ltsp uploaded today, but at least i got epoptes and ldm :)
08:05
<alkisg>
'night vagrantc, thanks again
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08:16
<highvoltage>
alkisg: ah, that's a pity
08:16
<alkisg>
highvoltage: it's very easy to make a small shell script to create users,
08:16
to put it in inetd.conf,
08:16
and to call it from ldm/rc.d upon login
08:17
Or maybe on client boot, as soon as it knows its hostname
08:17
So, RC_FILE in lts.conf
08:17
The whole implementation should be less than 10 lines
08:18
highvoltage: do you want me to do an implementation, and you can then package it in ltsp-live?
08:19
If you don't want to restart inetd, I can also make the daemon part in python
08:21
A bit safer way to do it would be:
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08:22
<alkisg>
1) to put HOSTNAME_EXTRA=mac in lts.conf
08:23
2) in either ldminfod or nbd-server (now we don't need the ip), to run `arp -an`, and generate users for all the known mac addresses
08:24
That even doesn't require any changes in existing chroots... let me give that a try
08:25
<highvoltage>
alkisg: it sounds reasonable to me, but talk to stgraber before uploading anything
08:26
it would be really nice to have ltsp live start up faster
08:26
on the other side the ltsp parts are usually the most fragile part of edubuntu so we need to make sure it doesn't introduce any new bugs first
08:27
<alkisg>
highvoltage: I wasn't going to upload anything, just provide a reference implementation that you guys could package if you think it helps :)
08:28
I'll send a mail with it, and if you want you can use it or not
08:28
<highvoltage>
alkisg: ok great
08:29
<alkisg>
The downside with `arp -n` is that in very large networks it will create even more than 255 users
08:29
...so maybe that isn't a good idea either
08:29
I'll go with the RC_FILE approach
08:38
<VectorX>
alkisg whats the best distro for ltsp ?
08:38
with probably the most support
08:39
<alkisg>
VectorX: ubuntu and debian are well supported, gentoo too but I don't know its current state, opensuse has kiwi ltsp, fedora is a bit behind
08:41
<VectorX>
i still cant figure out this nvidia issue with just this one client
08:42
<alkisg>
VectorX: did it work sometime in the past?
08:43
<VectorX>
yeah, the only difference was i took out the nvidia card from the server, and i think it worked after that aswell
08:43
coz we sorted the rdesktop thing and i tested on that machine
08:44
perhaps i should reinstall ubuntu and see
08:44
<alkisg>
And when did it break?
08:44
<VectorX>
well today was when i turned it on again maybe after like a week
08:44
<alkisg>
You don't need to reinstall anything on the server, at worse you could just run ltsp-build-client again, after moving away your existing /opt/ltsp
08:45
<VectorX>
well i deketed /opt/ltsp/i386 and did a arch i386 aswell
08:47
<alkisg>
You ran ltsp-build-client already, and the client still won't boot?
08:47
<VectorX>
nope
08:48
<alkisg>
Nope, you didn't run ltsp-build-client?
08:48
Or nope the client won't boot?
08:48
<VectorX>
same problem with the vga
08:48
im trying again
08:49
mv's i386 to _copy, and running build-client
08:54
ok now the machine hacing trouble ends up with a [OK] on the top right corner of the screen and is stuck there, the other is at the login prompt gui
08:56
took out the splash and rebooting
08:56
its got one fail on, stopping save kernal messages
08:57
either that or starting restore sound cards, hehe, too far apart to say
09:06
hmm few reboots and everything shows [OK] but its not going to the gui login
09:21
<alkisg>
Cool, with RCFILE_XX arbitrary commands can be executed on LTSP clients. So we can request accounts for the client hostnames without modifying existing chroots. :)
09:24
<VectorX>
so i changed the monitor from a brand spanking new led to a older lcd, and wala login promopt
09:25
<alkisg>
That's unrelated to the problem with the nvidia client that you pasted to pastebin, right?
09:25
<VectorX>
same problem, aparently that was the fix
09:26
although i cant really say coz i rebuilt the client, but, changing the monitor fixed what ever, when this was working i was using this same LCD
09:26
<alkisg>
It doesn't make sense, X can start without a monitor attached
09:26
<VectorX>
how do you think i feel
09:27
i mean this is really the only thing that changed for the client, last week it was working fine with the old LCD, then last night i rearranged everything and plugged in an LED and it didnt boot
09:28
<alkisg>
If that's true, then that graphics driver has some serious problems and you should file a bug against it
09:29
<VectorX>
what kind of gave it a way just now was in the pxelinux.cfg/default i added nomodeset and it worked
09:29
then i thought maybe ill try switching monitors
09:30
and went right thru, i was also wondering why i wasnt able to get another machine with the LED to boot up, this was last week, but i didnt need it at the time and forgot about it
09:49
<alkisg>
highvoltage, stgraber: so after a bit more thought, here's my suggestion for dynamic user creation:
09:49
1) We launch a very simple python tcpserver on the server, which gets the ip from the clients and creates the corresponding user accounts: http://docs.python.org/library/socketserver.html#socketserver-tcpserver-example
09:49
2) We put this in lts.conf, so that the clients ping the server: RCFILE_01=/usr/bin/nc server 9999. That's all, no chroot modifications necessary.
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13:28
<sybarite>
Can anyone tell me if its possible to create a ltsp network for mac clients too?
13:38
<Hyperbyte>
sybarite, I believe you can use powerpc clients for LTSP.
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19:08
<stgraber>
syncpackage: Request succeeded; you should get an e-mail once it is processed.
19:09
and now ldm is in sync with Debian ;)
19:16* Hyperbyte high fives stgraber
19:29* alkisg1 did that with epoptes a few hours ago :D
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22:53
<alkisg>
vagrantc, stgraber: I'm thinking of replacing S15-userLoginCheck with the following S21-userLoginCheck, any objections/comments?
22:53
http://paste.ubuntu.com/829423/
23:08
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it does assume that all logins will be from a version that supports the ~/.cache/ltsp/sessions.* business
23:08
i.e. a login from an older LTSP will not get detected
23:08
<alkisg>
Indeed, but how can you separate old logins from plain ssh sessions?
23:09
<vagrantc>
check the environment in /proc/PID/environ for LTSP_CLIENT and such
23:09
which won't catch really old sessions...
23:09
<alkisg>
And won't work in kfreebsd, will it?
23:10
<vagrantc>
well, i'm the only one crazy enough to even think about kfreebsd... right?!
23:10
<alkisg>
How common will it be for a sysadmin to have one updated chroot and and another older one, loggin in both at the same server?
23:10
<stgraber>
very common
23:10
<vagrantc>
alkisg: well, i've got multiple concurrent versions of chroots running
23:11
<stgraber>
I know I used to manage a few networks running up to 3 different version of Ubuntu as thin clients connecting to maybe 2 different version of Ubuntu on the server
23:11
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'm just thinking about a few extra checks, it doesn't have to work perfectly everywhere, but just a few more safety mechanisms.
23:12
<stgraber>
(depending on the thin client hardware, on whether they are fat clients or thin clients and depending on what kind of environment you want on the server)
23:12
I agree on the concept though, but we just need to make sure it covers most use cases
23:12
vagrantc: btw, we're in sync for ldm!
23:12
<vagrantc>
i.e. do not assume homogenous networks :)
23:13
stgraber: cheers!
23:13
stgraber: been working on that delta "since years"!
23:13
the biggest thing that improved the delta was moving the themes into their own packages.
23:15
<stgraber>
yeah, we were mostly back in sync a year or so ago I believe (looking at changelog), but that's the first time we're fully in sync ever, according to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldm/+publishinghistory
23:16
<vagrantc>
yup
23:16
<stgraber>
it's the first time LP published a package without a -XubuntuY in the version :)
23:16
I actually had to force it to do it as the package was still blacklisted in a few places (merge/sync scripts, LP itself and the publisher)
23:17
<vagrantc>
all that's left is LTSP ... :)
23:17
<stgraber>
so now, that's ltsp-docs, ltspfs and ldm all in sync, I guess my goal will be to have a minimal delta on ltsp by the next LTS, sounds reasonable I guess
23:18
<vagrantc>
ltsp-docs has always been in sync
23:18
i think
23:19
<stgraber>
I doubt we'll ever be in sync for ltsp as we need it to depend on the themes at least and probably some more stuff that we don't share between Debian or Ubuntu or that we share with a different name
23:19
though if we really want to be in sync, we could have a control.in doing that bit of the magic for us
23:19
<vagrantc>
true, but if that's the entire difference...
23:19
yeah, that too
23:20
<stgraber>
just checked and indeed ltsp-docs was always imported from Debian, we never touched it in Ubuntu (there really is no reason for Ubuntu specific changes to be honnest)
23:20
<vagrantc>
i actually want to implement some changes in dependencies because a lot of packages (ltsp-client/ltsp-client-core) have the various dependends/recommends/suggests that should all be bumped one direction or another.
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23:20
<stgraber>
ltspfs was out of sync from time to time because I wanted new versions of it but was resynced from Debian fairly often
23:20
<vagrantc>
i.e. ltsp-client-core suggests or recommends end up as depends for ltsp-client
23:21
we used to actually do that with some sort of control.in magic, but somewhere along the way i gave up on it.
23:29
<alkisg>
Thanks for the comments + good night guys :)
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23:30
<vagrantc>
stgraber: if we get to the point where the only packaging differences are dependencies, it would be great to try that again
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23:39
<stgraber>
vagrantc: yeah, I guess next cycle I'll move ltsp-live to its own separate source package, then try to rebase the existing LTSP packaging on yours. I doubt I'm even using dh7 for it at the moment, so likely quite a bit behind on what you ahve.
23:39
*have
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