IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 27 March 2008   (all times are UTC)

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02:45
<Pascal_1>
salut
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03:08
<gvy>
halo
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06:59
<daduke>
vagrantc: howdy! I'm playing with debian live now...
07:00
<vagrantc>
daduke: drop in irc.debian.org #debian-live too
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07:09
<daduke>
vagrantc: thanks, I'm in.
07:16
vagrantc: in my regular ltsp chroot, I have ltsp-client, ltsp-client-core, ltspfsd and ldm as ltsp-specific packages. Would you think that ldm is sufficient for LTSP operation provided that booting is performed by other means than NFS?
07:19
<ogra_cmpc_>
daduke, as long as it knows the server ip it should connect to it wont have a prob
07:19
<vagrantc>
daduke: i would actually install ltsp-client (which will pull in ltsp-client-core, ltspfsd and ldm)
07:20
daduke: but what ogra_cmpc_ said is true ... it should basically work.
07:20
<daduke>
vagrantc, ogra_cmpc_ : I'm just worried that the NFS booting voodoo will mess up my CD boot..
07:20
<vagrantc>
daduke: but if you want local devices and sound support and such, the easiest would be to install ltsp-client
07:21
<tarzeau>
HELP!
07:21
<vagrantc>
daduke: the only thing that you'll have to do is ensure that /etc/ltsp_chroot gets created before ltsp-client-core is installed.
07:21
tarzeau: see:
07:21
!question
07:21
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "question" is if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
07:21
<tarzeau>
vagrantc: i just said hello
07:22* vagrantc compares "HELP!" to "hello"
07:22
<daduke>
vagrantc: I already argued with tarzeau....
07:22* vagrantc doesn't notice a match
07:23
<tarzeau>
use -ignore-case and you find the first letter is equal
07:23
<daduke>
vagrantc: your ltsp_chroot comment is something I will have to think about... not sure what you're trying to say yet.
07:24
<vagrantc>
daduke: well, if the file /etc/ltsp_chroot doesn't exist, ltsp-client-core will fail to install. it's a check to make sure that ltsp-client-core doesn't get installed on a "regular" system, as it could do harmful things.
07:24
daduke: normally, ltsp-build-client handles that.
07:25
daduke: you'll have to figure out how to do that from debian-live. it's got a million hooks, so surely there's a way.
07:26
daduke: probably best to ask about that in #debian-live
07:28
<Pascal_1>
klausade ??
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07:32
<tarzeau>
vagrantc: in ldm how is the background color/picture defined?
07:33
vagrantc: it seems it takes bg.png for a tenths of a second, then makes it all white
07:33
i tried playing with greeter-gtkrc but no luck
07:33
<vagrantc>
tarzeau: you're using the backports?
07:33
<tarzeau>
we got a logo.png which is our own, a tux with a transparent background
07:33
ldm 0.1~bzr20080308-1~40.etch.0
07:34
<vagrantc>
tarzeau: see http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto, look in the known issues section.
07:34
<ogra_cmpc_>
tarzeau, there is a bg.png as well
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07:34
<tarzeau>
i noticed the bg.png
07:34
does it matter if it's a file in place or a symlink?
07:34
<vagrantc>
tarzeau: bg.png is broken for the etch backports. no idea how to fix it.
07:34
<tarzeau>
we've got a symlinked bg.png it seems be loaded then overdrawn by solid white
07:34
i see
07:34
<ogra_cmpc_>
it shouldnt (i never tested that though)
07:35
<tarzeau>
i don't care about bg.png, but can i change the solid color somehow?
07:35
<ogra_cmpc_>
not without patching the greeter
07:35
<tarzeau>
i see
07:35
<vagrantc>
and the interesting thing was, at one point i installed the exact same binary package on lenny and the bg.png worked fine.
07:35
<tarzeau>
i heard a new version is coming soon (fixing the x forwarding stuff)
07:35
funny
07:35
<vagrantc>
so it's a bug in one of the libraries on etch
07:36
<tarzeau>
can you figure which?
07:36
the thing is, when i start ldm, i can see bg.png be drawn
07:36
but only for a little part of a second
07:36
<vagrantc>
tarzeau: if i knew which, do you think i'd tell you? :P
07:36
<tarzeau>
certainly not
07:36
<vagrantc>
tarzeau: yeah, known issue.
07:37
<tarzeau>
well ldd /usr/sbin/ldm doesn't list THAT many
07:37
<daduke>
vagrantc: thanks, now I understand. the interesting thing is that ltsp-client-core installs in live just fine... I'll have to check that
07:38
<vagrantc>
daduke: then ltsp-client-core is broken...
07:40
tarzeau: regarding a new version, i just uploaded a new version to sid yesterday. it fixes a big security bug when using LDM_DIRECTX (which was fixed in the version you're using when not using LDM_DIRECTX)
07:40
tarzeau: i'll see about a backport, but i'm going to be traveling a bit this next week.
07:41
although i'll actually be specifically working on ltsp for part of that time- not sure if i'll have a chance to test the backports.
07:43
<tarzeau>
vagrantc: ah cool, i'll make my own backport:
07:43
<vagrantc>
tarzeau: there's some patches specific to the backport you may need to apply and update.
07:43
<tarzeau>
which?
07:43
it's building fine
07:45
http://krum.ethz.ch/backports/ldm/
07:45
<daduke>
tarzeau: do we really want to do this ourselves? We can wait some days no prob if vagrantc is working on it anyway...
07:45
<vagrantc>
tarzeau: have you installed it?
07:45
<tarzeau>
daduke: debian makes no backport, you never have a warranty that there will be a backport
07:45
vagrantc: i need to build it for i386 first, then test it
07:45
<ogra_cmpc_>
tarzeau, daduke ... in any case send us your patches :)
07:45
<daduke>
tarzeau: vagrantc's my warranty.
07:46
<vagrantc>
i pretty much always make backports if there's a reason to. i intend to make this backport.
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07:46
<daduke>
tarzeau: my point is: testing == production in our current setup.
07:47
<vagrantc>
tarzeau: the debian dir is in a bzr branch: http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/ltsp/ltsp-etch-backports-packaging
07:47
<tarzeau>
vagrantc: that url is empty?
07:47
<ogra_cmpc_>
thats a bzr branch
07:48
use it with bzr :)
07:48
<vagrantc>
tarzeau: and you'll need to merge patches from: http://bzr.debian.org/bzr/pkg-ltsp/ldm/ldm-debian-packaging
07:48
and ogra explained the rudiments.. :)
07:49
tarzeau: or if you build it without the patches and it works, so much the better :)
07:50
tarzeau: for some reason neither RyanRyan52 or i could figure out, we had to move some code from a function into the main() in order to get it to work.
07:51
<tarzeau>
vagrantc: the backport just worked
07:51
<vagrantc>
tarzeau: ah, maybe it just broke autologin and/or guest login, then.
07:51
<tarzeau>
yes maybe, i haven't tested autologin/guest logins
07:51
<vagrantc>
ah, my changelog entry was: * apply patch from Ryan Niebur to fix autologin and guest login on etch
07:52
if you don't use them, then you're probably fine.
07:54
<tarzeau>
i think we use the autologin for some kiosks
07:55
<daduke>
tarzeau: indeed we do
07:55
<vagrantc>
i'll see if i can't get a backport built and tested today.
07:55
<ogra_cmpc_>
autologin is slightly crak still anyway ... until we add a proper delay
07:55
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc_: if you need it, you need it.
07:56
<ogra_cmpc_>
you cant cleanly log out/shut down with it
07:56
vagrantc, indeed, just ointing out the drawbacks
07:56
*pointing
07:56
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc_: although the same patch is needed to get guest login to work, which doesn't have that problem.
07:57
hmmm...
07:57
<ogra_cmpc_>
it likely suffices to have a wait loop in there
07:57
<vagrantc>
if we basically had a timeout for the guest login, it would obsolete autologin
07:57
<ogra_cmpc_>
probably with a configurable value
07:57
<vagrantc>
well, the autologin code doesn't even display the greeter
07:58
<ogra_cmpc_>
for timeouts use timeoutd :)
07:58
<vagrantc>
so we'd have to muck around with that a bit.
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07:59
<vagrantc>
oops. i've never published my ldm-etch-backports branch ...
07:59
<ogra_cmpc_>
i have a littel few line app from linus that logs you out after a configurable time ... he sent it to me for edubuntu but didnt bother to give it any license
07:59
<vagrantc>
tarzeau: gave you the wrong URL ...
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08:04
<vagrantc>
tarzeau: the correct URL is: http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/ltsp/ldm-etch-backports-packaging
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08:13* tarzeau looks at the ldm/src now
08:13
<jammcq>
g'morning friends
08:15
<tarzeau>
i still don't get who/where ldm is launched ?
08:16
and what's most annoying is that a wrong password doesn't allow you another try
08:16
and that ldm isn't restarted when killed after such a bad entry
08:16
<ogra_cmpc_>
tarzeau, its started by the ltsp-client-core initscript
08:17
patches for the password stuff would be really appreciated
08:18
it did allow to re-enter the pw three times but the implementation ws a bit weird so its disabled by a one line patch until we fixed it properly
08:20
tarzeau, bzr diff -r807..808 on the ldm source has the change
08:20
<tarzeau>
the ltsp-client-core starts screen_session (looking at that now)
08:20
ogra_cmpc_: thanks but i don't use bzr
08:20
<ogra_cmpc_>
err
08:20
how do you get the source code than from vagrants branches ??
08:20
*then
08:21
<tarzeau>
i don't
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08:21
<tarzeau>
i only got the source debian package from sid
08:21
<ogra_cmpc_>
ah well
08:22
in any case the change is in revision 808 in case you want to revert it ... its searchable in the branches web interface on launchpad in the upstream branch
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08:34
<tarzeau>
seems the background stuff is gtk related
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08:40
<ogra_cmpc>
tarzeau, which gtk version does your chroot have ?
08:40
<vagrantc>
tarzeau: if you come up with a patch that either works in both newer and older versions of gtk (and isn't too ugly), i can hopefully include it upstream, or a patch that just works on etch, i can make a backport with it.
08:42
<ogra_cmpc>
gdk_pixbuf_new_from_file_at_scale is only supported from gtk 2.6 on
08:44
<tarzeau>
ogra_cmpc: i've got gtk 2.8.20(-7)
08:44
ogra_cmpc: it's supported, but for some reason fails, checking the gnome docs...
08:44
<ogra_cmpc>
that should suffice
08:44
<tarzeau>
gtk is not my favourite graphics toolkit
08:44
the code is ugly
08:49
<ogra_cmpc>
thanks
08:49
whats ugly about it (so i can prevent uglyness in teh future)
08:50
<tarzeau>
ogra_cmpc: it's just a paradigm "do the gui stuff graphically", if you know cocoa...
08:50
nothing you can do something about
08:50
<vagrantc>
you know, some code is just born ugly.
08:50
<ogra_cmpc>
oh, you mean gtk in general
08:50
<tarzeau>
yes
08:51
<ogra_cmpc>
i thoguht you mean the greeter specifically :)
08:51
<tarzeau>
i can't edit the gui elements in a sane way
08:51
<ogra_cmpc>
depends what you are used to
08:51
i like programming gtk
08:51
we used to use glade
08:52
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: was glade a big part of why it was *so slow* ?
08:52
<ogra_cmpc>
but that proved to be to heavyweight, the code tries to use the bare minimum of gtk
08:52
<tarzeau>
well the background picture problem is somewhere in gtkgreet/greeter.c
08:53
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, part of it ... glade itself was more about ram usage though
08:53
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: ah.
08:53
tarzeau: thanks for digging into this issue :)
08:54
<tarzeau>
i want to see if i can figure where the authentication happens
08:54
<ltsppbot>
"ogra" pasted "your prob is somewhere here" (9 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/486
08:54
<ogra_cmpc>
thats the bit responsible for the bg.png
08:55
unless ldm_theme_file is doing something wrong with assembling the right path
08:55
<tarzeau>
ogra_cmpc: that was where i kept looking at
08:55
i didn't dig into ldm_theme_file since it works for logo.png
08:55
<vagrantc>
since it actually displays, but then gets overwritten by the white, and the same binary worked on etch and lenny, i was wondering if it was a change in the order that gtk does things
08:55
<ogra_cmpc>
it does for all other files
08:56
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: it actually displays the bg.png, it just gets overwritten by something else
08:56
<ogra_cmpc>
gdk_pixbuf_unref(rawpic);
08:56
try commenting that line
08:56
<tarzeau>
the gnome docs said something about deprecated for new code on the gdk_pixbuf_unref
08:57
<ogra_cmpc>
well, it works fine in hardy
08:57
which should have the very latest gtk
08:59
<tarzeau>
ogra_cmpc: commenting it out had no effect
08:59
<ogra_cmpc>
right
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09:00
<tarzeau>
it probably just frees up some memory?
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09:02
<ogra_cmpc>
hmm
09:02
i dont have the theme patches in ubuntu i just noticed
09:02
so its likely introduced by the patch in revision 806
09:03
<tarzeau>
so you can fix it easily?
09:03
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: it's been an issue long before that, though.
09:03
<ogra_cmpc>
no idea its no code i use in ubuntu
09:03
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: it's been an issue since the first backport of C ldm.
09:03
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, well, i dont see it on any ubuntu release
09:04
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: yes, it's only present on etch.
09:04
ogra_cmpc: same code on etch works fine on lenny.
09:04
<ogra_cmpc>
so its likely a version mistmatch or a missing dep
09:04
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: or sid.
09:04
<ogra_cmpc>
hmm
09:04
weird
09:05
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: and at one point, the same exact *binary* worked on lenny but not etch.
09:06
so it's not necessarily a problem in the code... but how the code interacts with different versions of depending libraries, or maybe a missing dependency ...
09:07
but i would think a missing dependency would cause it to fail entirely...
09:08
<ogra_cmpc>
it wouldnt display the pic first place
09:09
<vagrantc>
but it actually displays the picture for a split second... something else ends up writing over it ...
09:09
<ogra_cmpc>
right
09:10
comment everything after gdk_window_set_back_pixmap((GdkWindow *) window->window, pic, 0);
09:10
until right before gtk_widget_show_all(window);
09:10
and then move the top comment sign down UI element by UI element
09:11
<vagrantc>
right ...
09:11
<ogra_cmpc>
that should show you what overwrites it
09:15* gvy is back (gone 04:00:23)
09:15
<gvy>
ogra_cmpc, vagrantc, ! :)
09:15
<ogra_cmpc>
hey
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10:17
<cyberorg>
hi guys http://en.opensuse.org/Easy-LTSP#Enhancement_requests fill it up :)
10:19
<gvy>
hi cyberorg
10:19
<cyberorg>
hiya gvy :)
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10:32
<prpplague>
jammcq: greetings
10:32
jammcq: got a couple questions for you when you a minute
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10:42
<jammcq>
prpplague: hey
10:42
<prpplague>
jammcq: hey, i'm tinkering with one of our small board designs
10:43
jammcq: http://www.elinux.org/Nail_Board
10:43
<jammcq>
cool
10:43
<prpplague>
jammcq: if you had something with similiar size and shape, but two usb hosts on one end, and vga out on the other, would that be viable for a small thin client in your mind?
10:44
<jammcq>
well, if it were in a small box that could be stuck to the back of a monitor, that'd be pretty cool
10:44
what about ethernet?
10:45
<prpplague>
jammcq: we have two options, we could add the ethernet internally, or do something similiar to the AMD PIC device and use a usb->ethernet adapter
10:45
<jammcq>
well, if you can avoid a bunch of adapters, that'd be best
10:46
<prpplague>
jammcq: ahh
10:46
jammcq: we'll we can add 10baseT for really cheap, 100baseT adds another few dollars
10:46
<jammcq>
but you could do mouse and keyboard on usb
10:46
ethernet port
10:46
how much ram ?
10:47
<prpplague>
jammcq: the base model we are testing with is very low resource, 32mb ram and 16mb flash, but we'd have a larger model for production with 128mb ram and 128mb flash
10:47
<jammcq>
and if yer gonna do an ethernet port, it should have PXE or Etherboot built-in
10:47
flash wouldn't be necessary for LTSP
10:48
<prpplague>
jammcq: well PXE and etherboot are part of the code for the device, not really in the ethernet(atleast in embedded systems)
10:48
<jammcq>
what about power supply?
10:48
where's the code? in flash?
10:48
<prpplague>
jammcq: yea in the flash
10:48
<jammcq>
i've seen PXE in the bios
10:48
what's the CPU ?
10:48
<prpplague>
jammcq: equiv to bios on x86
10:48
jammcq: s3c2410 arm920t
10:49
<jammcq>
you love those strongarms, eh?
10:49
<prpplague>
jammcq: power supply is just a standard +5v wall wort
10:49
jammcq: hehe, actually this arm9 not strongarm
10:49
jammcq: but yea i love arm, it pays the bills
10:49* jammcq doesn't know the difference
10:49
<ogra_cmpc>
sad ... none of the ltsp5 distros has arm support
10:50
<vagrantc>
not entirely true
10:50
<jammcq>
hmm
10:50
<prpplague>
jammcq: its like comparing AMD products to Intel
10:50
<vagrantc>
i just added patches for arm on debian
10:50
but i don't have any hardware to test
10:50
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, your ltsp5 packages run on arm ?
10:50
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: in theory
10:50
<ogra_cmpc>
right
10:50
<prpplague>
jammcq: i.e. difference between saying x86 and pentium
10:50
<jammcq>
vagrantc: hmmm, maybe prpplague can get you some arm hardware for testing
10:50* ogra_cmpc has two old ipaqs lying around here ...
10:51
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: i wrote some network boot code based on the code in debian-installer
10:51
<ogra_cmpc>
but no netboot opportunoty for them
10:51* gvy . o O ( r701 )
10:51
<prpplague>
ogra_cmpc: yea it works on arm, i did several arm installations with ltsp and ltsp/hybrid stuff, but thats been years ago
10:52
<ogra_cmpc>
prpplague, ltsp5 uses the host systems kernel ... ubuntu doesnt support arm at all, debian has arm support but nobody tested ltsp ever on arm there
10:52
not sure about fedora which is supposed to have an ltsp5 implementation with next months release
10:53
but i dont think warren took other areches than i386 and amd64 into account
10:53
<prpplague>
ogra_cmpc: yea, you'd need to generate a seperate kernel and rootfs specific for the arm devices
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10:53
<ogra_cmpc>
which is fine and exactly what we do anyway in ltsp
10:53
<prpplague>
ogra_cmpc: i never used ltsp's system for creating the rootfs anyway
10:54
<warren>
I added code so other arches have a chance of working on fedora
10:54
<ogra_cmpc>
but you need something you can modify ... ubuntu doesnt have it so its a no go for me
10:54
(we might go for arm in teh next release)
10:54
not sure though
10:54
<prpplague>
so the base ltsp would be problematic for standized usage
10:54
hmm
10:55
<vagrantc>
prpplague: why would it be problematic?
10:56
arm is supported on debian. therefore, arm is (theoretically) supported in ltsp5 in debian.
10:56
doing cross-architecture install is the tricky part, i guess.
10:56
but i've had decent luck with qemu-system-arm
10:59
<prpplague>
vagrantc: just stating that since ogra_cmpc seems to think ubuntu doesn't have arm support, that not everyone would be able to use the standard ltsp
11:00
vagrantc: not saying that the support to couldn't be tweaked and fix
11:00
<vagrantc>
prpplague: on ubuntu ...
11:00
<prpplague>
vagrantc: correct
11:00
<ogra_cmpc>
ltsp5 is deitro specific
11:00
*distro
11:01
<vagrantc>
well, i'd be curious about testing it for debian.
11:01
<ogra_cmpc>
if you find distros using ltsp5 and having arm support, all is fine
11:01
<vagrantc>
and if debian gets it working, then if ubuntu ever adds support for arm, it'll basically work for ubuntu without many, if any, changes.
11:01
<prpplague>
yea, we have some prototype designs we were looking at, trying to decide if it would be a practical device to put into production
11:02Pascal_1 has quit IRC
11:02
<warren>
arm based thin clients?
11:02
<prpplague>
warren: yea its a small arm based device, not nessarily a thin client
11:03
<vagrantc>
i thought otavio had an arm thin client at some point
11:03
<prpplague>
its 5" x 1"
11:03
basically an oversized thumb drive
11:03
<mnemoc>
did Ubuntu get sample fulong-2F boxes?
11:04
<prpplague>
jammcq: think there would be any interest in using it as a thin client?
11:05
<vagrantc>
the keychain thin-client...
11:07
<ogra_cmpc>
teah, carry a usb disk and a hacked LCD photo frame with you ... can replace your laptop
11:07
<laga>
yeah, also make sure to bring your server ;)
11:07
<ogra_cmpc>
pocket laptop kit ;)
11:09* ogra_cmpc is waiting for a USB key sized mini projector that works at daylight and produces a 14" screen since years
11:09
<ogra_cmpc>
but these slackers simply dont invent it ... damned
11:11
<warren>
ogra_cmpc, its in the movie Paycheck
11:11
<ogra_cmpc>
heh
11:11
<jammcq>
prpplague: well, for it to work as an LTSP workstation, it needs to be supported by the major distros. that's probably an issue, at least for fedora and ubuntu. prolly suse too
11:11
debian would probably work, and dunno about gentoo and the others
11:12
<ogra_cmpc>
gentoo would ... if their ltsp was done
11:12
there is movement but its still early
11:13
<prpplague>
jammcq: fedora has arm support with no problems, i'd have to look into ubuntu
11:13
jammcq: yea debian has arm support as well
11:13
<jammcq>
don't need to look much further than ogra_cmpc for questions about Ubuntu support
11:13
<ogra_cmpc>
prpplague, there is nothing to look into on ubuntu ... the arch simply isnt available
11:13
<prpplague>
jammcq: we are talking something like $189 for the board
11:14
<jammcq>
hmm, seems expensive
11:14
<ogra_cmpc>
yeah
11:14
<prpplague>
jammcq: we did the original design for a company that wanted to replace a bunch of old wyse 50 devices
11:14
<jammcq>
there's $100 terminals out there
11:14
what's the performance like on that arm chip?
11:15
<prpplague>
jammcq: around 100 bogomips, no where near what you are probably used to on a pc
11:15
<ogra_cmpc>
that wont be fun on ltsp5
11:15
<jammcq>
and what video chip would you use?
11:15
<prpplague>
jammcq: which is kind of why i was wondering about the practicality of using it with ltsp
11:15
<jammcq>
it prolly would have worked ok on ltsp-4.2, but that is pretty dead
11:15
<prpplague>
jammcq: the s3c2410 has it's own video controller, as do most arm soc's
11:16
<jammcq>
is there Xorg support for that chip?
11:16
<prpplague>
jammcq: yea
11:16
jammcq: i already run x on it
11:17
jammcq: are the $100 terminals actually available these days?
11:17
<gvy>
prpplague, ex-amd pic?
11:17
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: well ... i made it as far as UserPrompt = gtk_label_new("");
11:17
<prpplague>
jammcq: i've seen alot of stuff on linuxdevices about them, but i didn't think they were available
11:17
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: still nothing overwriting bg.png
11:17
<jammcq>
prpplague: DisklessWorkstations has sold a bunch of them
11:17
and has them in stock afaik
11:18
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: don't know what in that jumble would be meaningful ...
11:18
<prpplague>
gvy: i didn't think that the company that purchase the pic design from amd was still selling them
11:18
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, so you have it properly sitting in the background ?
11:18
<prpplague>
jammcq: ahh i'll have to have a look
11:18
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: yeah... displaying nothing but the background ...
11:18
ogra_cmpc: i don't really understand gtk well enough to guess which lines are meaningful ...
11:18
ogra_cmpc: testing it one line at a time is a little tedious. :)
11:19
<prpplague>
jammcq: this design had some special considerations, which is why they didn't use an off the shelf x86 terminal
11:19
<gvy>
prpplague, they seemed to do a few months ago
11:19* prpplague wasn't too impressed with the PIC design
11:20
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, yeah, the intresting pieces are the gtk_box_pack_start lines which actually add the elements
11:20
<gvy>
prpplague, https://store.dataevolution.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DT-7001
11:20
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: ah, cool.
11:20
<prpplague>
jammcq: big difference between this design and the x86 stuff is the power consumption, which was a priority for the customer
11:21alekibango has quit IRC
11:22
<prpplague>
gvy: ahh interesting
11:22
gvy: i wonder if they are just selling off stock or are they still in actual production
11:23
<ogra_cmpc>
thats pretty old ... likely stock only
11:23
i suspect
11:23
<prpplague>
gvy: as cable&wireless had originally planned to order atleast 50k units, and ended up only purchasing around 2k units
11:24
<ogra_cmpc>
and they are something like 3 years old already i think
11:24
<prpplague>
ogra_cmpc: actually closer to 4
11:25
<ogra_cmpc>
yup
11:27
<gvy>
prpplague, guess the initial stock would make no sense a year later
11:27
don't know
11:27
(readin up) ah, even so?
11:27
funny...
11:28
<prpplague>
well, we already got paid for the design, i was just curious about using it with ltsp and such so not that big of a deal
11:28
<ogra_cmpc>
if you ever have lpia devices i'll be your man with ubuntu :)
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11:28
<prpplague>
lpia?
11:28
<ogra_cmpc>
menlo
11:29
intels new mobile CPU
11:29
*menlow
11:29
<prpplague>
ahh
11:29
<lns>
is that the new geode competitor?
11:29
<prpplague>
not likely
11:29
<ogra_cmpc>
thats somnething ubuntu supports :)
11:29
<lns>
that all-in-one integrated chipset
11:30
<prpplague>
ogra_cmpc: we generally do only arm, mips, or ppc, i can't even remember the last time we did an x86 design
11:30
<ogra_cmpc>
no idea i havent had one in myu hands yet (i have seen a fridge sized test setup though ... not very "mobile" :) )
11:30
<r3zon8>
i used the debian tarball for ltsp5 to install on RHEL5, and ive got everything working fine now..its just that the login screen shows Debian logos/etc...and i rather it show RH logos..any ideas?
11:30
<lns>
ha
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11:31
<ogra_cmpc>
prpplague, sad, none of the arches ubuntu supports
11:31
ppc got dropped two releases ago ... this round we got rid of sparc
11:31
<laga>
i thought sparc packages are still available and built, but not officially supported anymore?
11:32
<ogra_cmpc>
right
11:32
like ppc
11:32
<laga>
ah
11:32
<ogra_cmpc>
but sionce thats community maintained you cant predict if i9t will b e like thatr next release ... or if anyone will fix your bugs
11:32
(ppc community is big, but sparc is rather small)
11:34tux_440volt has joined #ltsp
11:45* mnemoc has huge hopes on lemote mips boxes
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13:31
<vagrantc>
well, tested the new ldm backport
13:32prpplague has left #ltsp
13:33
<cyberorg>
hi vagrantc is suse plugin pushed?
13:34
<vagrantc>
i haven't pushed anything ...
13:34
last i recall, we had discussed all sorts of things, the exact details i don't remember ...
13:35
i've gotta run at the moment ...
13:35
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, you wanted bzr tree with individual commits :)
13:35
you got that
13:35
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: yes.
13:36
<cyberorg>
http://cyberorg.kicks-ass.org/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/ that was it
13:36
<warren>
Wow, pack-0.92 is way faster
13:36
<vagrantc>
warren: yeah, seems to be.
13:38
cyberorg: looks like it's been merged.
13:38
cyberorg: er ...
13:39
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, cool, i'll pull and add more stuff
13:39
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: actually ... bzr: ERROR: Connection error: curl connection error (Couldn't resolve host 'cyberorg.kicks-ass.org')
13:39
cyberorg: i just have revision 677 ...
13:39
cyberorg: which just looks like a mirror of ltsp-trunk
13:40
cyberorg: sorry, got to run now ...
13:40vagrantc has quit IRC
13:40
<cyberorg>
ok, ciao
13:44deavid has joined #ltsp
13:47
<cyberorg>
i didn't know bzr needed push, thought commit should take care of it :(
13:49
<gvy>
cyberorg, warren, again just in case: r702 was pushed to http://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/people/led/bzr/ltsp/ltsp-altlinux/
13:49
<warren>
gvy, I am not looking at it for at least 2 weeks
13:49
<gvy>
that seems to be all of the main part, although there are some more cleanups in the pipe
13:49
warren, i remember :)
13:50
warren, btw who merges into ltsp-trunk?
13:50
<cyberorg>
gvy, we need to ask for commit access :)
13:50
<gvy>
cyberorg, well i'd better have some more training time (led probably too) :)
13:50
botching up a shared repo is not the best thing to do
13:51
<cyberorg>
gvy, don't worry, nothing can go wrong that cannot be reverted with source control
13:51
<gvy>
warren, does vagrantc merge into trunk?
13:51
cyberorg, well that can be messy too
13:51
<cyberorg>
gvy, there are projects with 100s of devs pushing all the time
13:52* gvy pushes all the time, *but still*
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14:23* gvy is away: ~
14:23
<gvy>
bb folks
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15:13
<cliebow>
kinda quiet at the moment..lot of the Europeans are peob resting
15:15
<Sockra_Tease>
if I compile a binary for slackware 12 for LTSP would you guys want to use it/store it?
15:15Pascal_1 has joined #ltsp
15:16
<Sockra_Tease>
i know most projects dont like to hold onto bin packages for slackware due to the nature of the distro, so offer stands
15:16
<cliebow>
there have been a couple guys working on ltsp5 in slack..jammcq would know..you need to read up on ltsp..
15:16
<Sockra_Tease>
doing so atm
15:16
<laga>
yes, read up on "project muekow".. binary packages probably won't do much good
15:18
<Sockra_Tease>
muekow like moocow? #moocow?
15:18
<cliebow>
Sockra_Tease, quite a few distros are working together to create a common codebase for this thin client solution..
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15:19
<Sockra_Tease>
why would the distros be responsible for that?
15:19
rather the maintainers
15:19
<laga>
Sockra_Tease: www.ltsp.org and read up on muekow
15:19
<Sockra_Tease>
ok ok
15:21
<cliebow>
Sockra_Tease, once upon a time we created a chroot from redhat7.3 binaries..it was crazy trying to support it..so jammcq went to creating an lbe--linuxbuild environment so all glibcs and stuff matched..ltsp5 is step forward in that each distro provides its own binaries and ltsp just provides the "glue"
15:22
<laga>
LBE was nice.. but working with a "real" distro is a lot nicer for local apps
15:22
<cliebow>
yes for sure
15:22
<laga>
i still remember when i tried to add Qt and MythTV to the LBE
15:22* laga goes catatonic
15:23
<cliebow>
hahah!!
15:23
ihad my share adding x11vnc
15:23
<laga>
heh
15:23
LBE wasn't too bad, but i just wasn't up to the task back then
15:24
<cliebow>
nor i..and now totally lost
15:24
<jammcq>
how do you think I feel? I wrote LBE. Now, all I can do is watch as these guys work their magic
15:25
<Sockra_Tease>
cliebow: its crazy trying to support anything redhat lol they dont even support their OWN stuff lol....good luck finding help with their RHGB
15:25
i tried to port it to slackware a couple years ago
15:25
it was a big mess of spaghetti code
15:25
<laga>
jammcq: heh. didnt mean to thrash your work :)
15:25
<warren>
From a realistic standpoint, major distros couldn't ship LBE-based LTSP to customers and have it be supportable for 7+ years.
15:26
LTSP5 makes it possible to support LTSP
15:26
<laga>
what linux distros have support for 7+ years?
15:26
<warren>
laga, RHEL
15:26
<laga>
oh, nice
15:27
<jammcq>
laga: hmm, didn't see any trashing
15:27talntidwrk has joined #ltsp
15:27
<laga>
jammcq: good :)
15:27
<talntidwrk>
hey, for the thin client manager.. to view the screens...
15:27
what is recommended?
15:28
<cliebow>
Sockra_Tease, meet warren from fedora 8~)
15:29
laterrr..
15:29cliebow has quit IRC
15:29* warren ?
15:32
<dberkholz>
jammcq: do you feel like you get to sit back and sip a mai tai? =)
15:32
<Sockra_Tease>
lol hy warren :)
15:32
<warren>
dberkholz, this is where we pay him daily royalty payments
15:33
<jammcq>
dberkholz: I wish. got enough stuff going on here to keep 10 of me busy
15:35
<dberkholz>
jammcq: i know the feeling.
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17:11
<vagrantc>
updated the ldm backport for etch: http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto (see the section mentioning backports)
17:13
there's one issue to get LDM_DIRECTX working which i'll document in the known issues section
17:22
<Ryan52>
vagrantc: Did you find/fix the bug that was making it act wierd?
17:23
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: act weird?
17:23
Ryan52: still had to apply that one patch with the autologin/guestlogin function ...
17:23
<Ryan52>
oh, ya...that was what I meant.
17:23
<vagrantc>
not the "it's just totally broken" issue you were having at freegeek ?
17:24
you were getting gtk errors and such?
17:25
Ryan52: i didn't actually test if it worked without the *login patch since it applied cleanly... but it would be good to minimize the diff between sid and the backport
17:25
<Ryan52>
yes...I wonder if any of the changes will make it start to work at GF...
17:25
err, FG
17:27
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: you had those issues with an upgraded environment, or a clean install?
17:27
one of these days i'm going to have to work on the etch -> lenny upgrade path.
17:28
i'm pretty sure there's some bugs at the moment.
17:28
Ryan52: oh! it might have been an issue with the default theme being set to something that didn't exist
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17:59
<Ryan52>
ya...I never got to looking into it...
18:00
it was upgraded and clean
18:00
both on glacier though
18:00
maybe using a new server might have worked better
18:01
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: version of ltsp-server on glacier was current?
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18:03
<Ryan52>
yes, it was the latest from backports
18:04
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: the theme is bad
18:06
Ryan52: well, in /opt/ltsp/i386.bad, the theme points to a file that doesn't exist
18:06
<Ryan52>
oh...that might have something to do with it...
18:07* Ryan52 is too busy to care today anyway...but he will look into it next week or something.
18:07
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: it's an issue i've been meaning to fix, actually ... when you upgrade ldm, it doesn't contain all the same themes
18:08
and so if the old theme is bad, it gets borked...
18:08
s,bad,missing,
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19:18
<warren>
vagrantc, hmm, I can use most of update-kernels if we make the part that edits the yaboot, pxelinux.cfg and other boot loaders optional
19:19
<vagrantc>
warren: sure
19:19
warren: could even modularize or plugin-ify it.
19:19
<warren>
OTOH I'm considering doing it entirely from outside the chroot instead
19:19* vagrantc fought long and hard for doing it inside the chroot
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19:19
<warren>
what benefits do you have inside?
19:20
there's otherwise no reason to install mkelfimage within the chroot
19:20
<johnny>
i'm back..
19:20
<vagrantc>
you're not depending on the server to have the right software to prepare your thin client for network booting
19:20
<warren>
ok
19:20
<vagrantc>
i like keeping everything relevent to the chroot within the chroot ...
19:21
<warren>
btw
19:21
do you have anything to clean up old kernels from your tftpdir later?
19:21
<vagrantc>
i.e. (at least on debian) all your boot related files are in /boot ... ltsp shouldn't be any different.
19:21
warren: nope. :)
19:21
<warren>
I have 30 something kernel versions in my tftpdir =_
19:21
=)
19:21
<vagrantc>
it needs a lot of improvements, but it's the kind of thing i'd like to work on.
19:22
<warren>
ltsp-update-kernels only copies whatever is in the client /boot then
19:22
<vagrantc>
that was the idea. keeping it really simple.
19:23
could move aside the old dir and just copy everything over fresh.
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19:24
<warren>
that doesn't work fo rme
19:24
I use pxelinux.cfg entirely controlled by the sysadmin
19:24
never do my scripts touch it
19:25
<vagrantc>
oh well.
19:25
<warren>
#!/bin/sh -e
19:25
what does -e do?
19:25
<vagrantc>
stop execution on error
19:28
<warren>
why is that desired here?
19:28jammcq has joined #ltsp
19:28
<vagrantc>
why is it undesireable?
19:28
<jammcq>
good evening gents
19:29
<pilipo>
hi all
19:29
<warren>
well, you could just implement proper error checking and error messages
19:29
and control failure paths
19:29
<vagrantc>
warren: patches accepted :)
19:30
<warren>
vagrantc, does debian have some way to automatically run this whenever a kernel is updated in the chroot?
19:30
vagrantc, or it has to be run from something external to the chroot?
19:33
<vagrantc>
warren: admin has to run the server-side copying.
19:33
warren: it's possible to set up your configuration file and tftp server so you don't have to update
19:34
i worked on that a while ... but it needs some more care.
19:34
warren: the nbi.img generation and such happens on the fly
19:37
i.e. when installing a new kernel, or removing a kernel ..
19:52
yay. got my hands on a network bootable powerpc :)
19:53
soon, it will be running ltsp.
19:53
of course, it has to install it's own root filesystem ...
19:58
<warren>
jammcq, do you sell anything with linuxbios?
20:01
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/files
20:01
hmm, not sure what broke this.
20:01
<jammcq>
nope
20:01
actually, I don't sell anything. I'm not part of DisklessWorkstations anymore
20:02
but disklessworkstations doesn't sell anything with a linuxbios
20:02
<warren>
jammcq, really?
20:02
<jammcq>
yep
20:03
<warren>
according to our kernel hacker, linuxbios is perfectly capable of booting a kernel and initrd image, the manufacturers who loaded linuxbios must have done something stupid.
20:04
<jammcq>
I know some of the linuxbios guys, and I fully believe that it should work just fine
20:04
<warren>
then why are we required to use mkelfimage to wrap it?
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20:06
<jammcq>
umm, dunno why
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20:08
<vagrantc>
so we just hand it a single image?
20:09
probably shouldn't require that if there's another way ...
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20:43
<petre>
evening all
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23:05
<vagrantc>
wahoo.
23:05
debian sid powerpc thin-client ...
23:06
it's like it's its' own grampa.
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23:55
<johnny>
vagrantc, word
23:59
<dberkholz>
johnny: ah, there you are
23:59
johnny: got an ltsp overlay set up
23:59
<johnny>
sweet
23:59
i was on vacation
23:59
but my computer went off at some point
23:59
so, what kinda overlay is it?