IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 24 December 2008   (all times are UTC)

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03:49
<warren>
Ryan52: how many of which are upstream bugs?
03:51
<Ryan52>
warren, most of them are not processed, so who knows...I didn't actually look at them :)
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04:33
<adeel>
is there any information as to the network utilization with LTSP deployed for a reasonable number of clients (20-50)?
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05:06
<alkisg>
adeel: I haven't seen anything official... It depends largely on the usage, e.g. googleearth => 45 Mbps for each client, OpenOffice => 1.5 Mbps for each client... So you can't really take an average.
05:12
<adeel>
alkisg, well i'm planning on basic office usage...i'm thinking of xfce4 with the standard office utils (OO,firefox, thunderbird, basic games)
05:14
in terms of security, is it worth-while to put the LTSP server & clients in their own vlan?
05:14
<alkisg>
adeel, the environment (gnome/kde/xfce), OO and thunderbird are no problems, but flash-based sites and full screen games may cause a network bottleneck.
05:15
(or even a CPU bottleneck)
05:15
<adeel>
alkisg, well i don't plan on having any full screen games...just simple stuff like xboard and solitaire, etc....flash will definitely be a royal pita...but i'm hoping to do bonded gigE ports on the servers
05:16
<alkisg>
flash will hog the CPU before the network, so you should also have quad core if you can.
05:17
<adeel>
if the load on the current server (dual quad core xeon e5405 with 16 gb ram) is too much, i can always add more
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05:21
<alkisg>
adeel, let me give you some more benchmarks: gimp or tuxpaint or OOo => 1,5 Mbps per user / CPU ~2% per user, firefox + youtube => 22Mbps / 10% CPU, xvid 600x350 playback with totem => 60 mbps / 6% CPU
05:21
(Averages from a 10-pc lab)
05:22
(dual core, pci gigabit)
05:22
<adeel>
damn, xvid is that network intensive?
05:22
is this via XDMCP/rdesktop/vnc/nx?
05:22
<alkisg>
Sure, 600x350x16 bit per pixel x 20 frames per second is a lot of data...
05:23
<adeel>
yeah, i recall having issues with video playback over xdmcp
05:23
<alkisg>
No, plain LTSP (=ssh -X). Actually I disabled encryption on the tests to save CPU (but that incresed network usage)
05:24
There's a setting for that, LDM_DIRECTX=True in a file called lts.conf
05:24
If you're going to use it, you'd probably want to put the clients in a seperate vlan for security
05:25
<adeel>
well using ssh -X to playback a video file doesn't appear to be the most efficient method...i wonder if xdmcp might be faster
05:26
<alkisg>
LDM_DIRECTX=True translates to ssh -Y, so no encryption there.
05:26
<adeel>
ah ok
05:27
<alkisg>
Anyway gotta go, good luck.
05:27
<adeel>
thanks for the advice, see ya later
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09:13
<sbalneav>
Morning all!
09:17
<Gadi>
!s
09:17
<ltspbot`>
Gadi: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:18
<rjune__>
!g
09:18
<ltspbot`>
rjune__: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:18
<rjune__>
!s
09:18
<ltspbot`>
rjune__: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:20
<Gadi>
hey, rjune
09:20
either of you guys play with vpn clients much?
09:21
<rjune__>
Uhm, a bit.
09:21* Gadi is looking around for a nice swiss-army-knife client
09:21* Gadi is comparing vpnc and ike
09:22
<rjune__>
http://wiki.imagestream.com/wiki/OpenVPN
09:22
Hrm
09:22
never used either of those
09:22
<Gadi>
ah
09:22
what do you use?
09:22
openvpn's client?
09:22
or the proprietary one from the vendor
09:23
<rjune__>
opengui on windows.
09:23
and config files on linux
09:23
that was written for our routers, which are capable of being openvpn terminators
09:24
How was the eight crazy nights this year?
09:24
<Gadi>
well, 3 down, 5 to go
09:25
seems like in keeping with the festival of lights theme, most of Beni's presents have been star wars theme
09:25
<rjune__>
sweet
09:25
<Gadi>
festival of light sabres
09:25
<rjune__>
fantastic
09:25
I got GI Joe for one son, and a space ship for the other
09:25
<Gadi>
gi joe is still around?
09:26
<rjune__>
yup
09:26
<Gadi>
wow
09:26
<rjune__>
Daughter got some video games.
09:26
<Gadi>
cool
09:27
I finally got off my butt this year and dove into Web2.0
09:27* Gadi became facebook-aware
09:27
<rjune__>
wow
09:27
<Gadi>
and skype enabled
09:27
<rjune__>
I got a linked in account
09:27
<Gadi>
hehe
09:27* Gadi feels like an old fart
09:28
<rjune__>
and wrote a web 2.0 app
09:28
<Gadi>
nice
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09:31
<pscheie>
morning all
09:32
bandwidth aside, for a netbook, say, to pxe boot over wireless, could parameters such as SSID be placed in the BIOS?
09:33
I realize this is just speculation
09:36
<Gadi>
can they be in the BIOS, sure
09:36
will you be apt to find them there, no
09:36
<pscheie>
right, I know that
09:36
<Gadi>
and almost surely not the drivers
09:37
<pscheie>
but I wonder if the coreboot folks are considering it
09:37
<Gadi>
I dont think there are low-level BIOS calls that can be made to configure a wireless card
09:37
oh, prolly not
09:38
<pscheie>
what additional parameters are needed vs. wired?
09:40
I'm just trying to understand what is preventing pxe-over-wireless; I assume it's difficult or someone would be doing it
09:40
<sbalneav>
pscheie: PXE over wireless is easy.
09:41
You just need the right hardware :)
09:41
Use a regular ethernet adapter, and get one of the "gaming wireless adapters" that dlink sells
09:42
ethernet plugs in one side, it's wireless on the other.
09:42
<pscheie>
sbalneav, oh, I've done that ;-)
09:42
<sbalneav>
ah, ok.
09:42
<pscheie>
I'm thinking more along the lines of a netbook TC that boots over wireless in the classroom
09:43
802.11b/g don't have the bandwidth, but n might if it every standardizes
09:43
*might*, I say
09:44
and I just want to understand the details of what prevents that from being viable
09:45
<sbalneav>
I think it's basically "Lack of bios functions"
09:45
Most wireless adapters are either secret USB devices, or secret PCMCIA devices
09:46
Some arent, but for those that are, you'd have to have the bios bring up the usb or pcmcia bus, set the essid, any encryption keys, yadda yadda yadda
09:46
So you'd need a whole page in the bios setup for key, essid, etc.
09:47
I'd expect the LinuxBIOS project might be of some use, but they target a fairly small set of mobos.
09:48
<pscheie>
that's why I was thinking of coreboot (formerly LinuxBIOS)
09:48
<sbalneav>
Oh, is that what it's called now?
09:48
<pscheie>
yes, I found that out just the other day myself
09:49
but you're correct, they focus on a small number of mobos
09:49
have to
09:49
<sbalneav>
I've given up following them. Unless something's changed in the last few years, their focus was on high-end mobos used in huge cluster boxes
09:49
getting cluster nodes booted quickly
09:50
<rjune__>
pscheie: I did a cd boot image for wireless terminals
09:50
<pscheie>
It's a shame no laptop or netbook OEMs have looked at adding such an option to the BIOS
09:51
<rjune__>
basically took the LTSP boot image and added wireless drivers, then burned the thing to cd
09:51
<pscheie>
but I suppose wireless chips are still enough of a moving target that it'd be difficult
09:51
<rjune__>
in theory, it could be done as a boot rom
09:51
<pscheie>
rjune_, my latest idea is to do the same but with a pico USB key
09:52
Gadi's demo key gave me the idea
09:52
<rjune__>
yeah, that should work.
09:52
<pscheie>
they cost a lot more $ than a CD of course
09:52
<Gadi>
pscheie: that key supports wireless
09:52
<sbalneav>
What's the ratio of notebook users who want to boot off the notebook's hard drive, versus the number of notebook users who want to boot it wirelessly. Calculate your ratio, and you'll have your answer why they haven't done it.
09:52
<rjune__>
boot off of cf or sd if the laptop supports it
09:52
<pscheie>
kids more likely to take them
09:52
<Gadi>
go ahead and plug it in
09:52
<rjune__>
sbalneav: +1
09:53
<pscheie>
Gadi, I did, but I don't think I got the wireless option to work (can't remember now)
09:53
<Gadi>
hmm
09:53
<pscheie>
on my Toshiba
09:53
<Gadi>
you can update it
09:55
<pscheie>
Gadi, I can't remember how it looks (and don't have it with me ATM) but does it ask for various wireless parameters?
09:55
<Gadi>
pscheie: by default, it will connect to "any"
09:56
you can go to the network tab and add SSID and WEP key
09:56* Gadi doesnt have all the WPA stuff in yet
09:56
<Gadi>
well, I do, but not in the GUI
09:56
see - wireless gets complicated
09:56
:)
09:57
one of the updates I made since hackfest was to use wired if plugged in, and wireless if not
09:57
because I had some folks where both interfaces were activated and it was causing routing issues
10:07
<pscheie>
stgraber said he'd put a stripped down ubuntu onto a netbook and then used NX to connect over wireless
10:07
very low bandwidth usage
10:07
but that wouldn't do so well for localapps/video
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11:23
<rjune__>
GodFather: sup ron
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11:45
<jammcq>
happy holidays to all my friends on #ltsp
11:45
<rjune__>
!J
11:45
<ltspbot`>
rjune__: "J" is jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11:46
<rjune__>
Merry Christmahannakwanzika!
11:46
<jammcq>
don't forget happy festivus
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11:54
<rjune__>
jammcq: you ready for xmas?
11:55
<jammcq>
ready? born ready
11:56
<rjune__>
heh
11:56
you on linkedin?
11:56
<jammcq>
nope
11:56
I made a decision a long time ago to not get on all those social networking sites
11:56
I get 1 or 2 invites a week
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11:59
<rjune__>
heh
11:59
they all want the prestige of being the site with *THE* jammcq
12:01
jammcq: got a wii?
12:01
<jammcq>
nope, no wii
12:10
<rjune__>
what do you do for fuN?
12:10
<jammcq>
hmm
12:11
<rjune__>
'tis a joke
12:12
I'm assuming you do something crazy like spend time with your family for fun
12:17
<_UsUrPeR_>
that's just crazy enough to work
12:17
I picked up left 4 dead for the PC
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16:35
<kc8pxy>
johhny you there?
16:37
<johnny>
hi
16:37
barely..
16:39
<kc8pxy>
i know last time i was here, you were helping me get a gentoo ltsp up and working.
16:39
<johnny>
sure
16:41
<kc8pxy>
if i frie up that box again, are you free to help me work out thekinks? i had a failed ltsp-build-client run last time.
16:42
<johnny>
not really..
16:42
it's christmas eve
16:42
<kc8pxy>
kk
16:42
:-9
16:42
:-(
16:42
i understand
16:42
<johnny>
i'd suggest trying again
16:42
sync the new ltsp
16:42
<kc8pxy>
kk
16:42
<johnny>
rm -rf /usr/portage/packages/x86*
16:43
emerge ltsp-server
16:43
and then run ltsp-build-client --quickstart-verbose --quickstart-debug
16:43
and let me know what happens
16:43
i'll check back periodically
16:44
i've fixed a few things since then
16:44
like relying on daniel robbin's stage3s
16:44
instead of gentoo's really old 2008.0
16:45
<kc8pxy>
robbins is back in the pickture?
16:45
<johnny>
i'll switch back to the official gentoo stages as soon as there are newer ones
16:45
not with gentoo exactly
16:45
www.funtoo.org
16:45
but he builds gentoo stages
16:47
<kc8pxy>
interesting
16:48
so a variant on his old baby.
17:06
<adeel>
is it possible to run multiple ltsp variants on one ltsp server without resorting to virtualization? basically i have 2 different user bases, internal & public kiosks and i need different apps for each
17:41
<johnny>
sure...different chroots
17:53
<adeel>
what config changes, if any, must be made?
18:00
<Ryan52>
you need to create another chroot with ltsp-build-client (but in a different place)
18:01
add that place to your /etc/exports or the nbd config (sorry, dunno where that is) depending on whether you use nfs or nbd
18:01
and change your dhcp or pxelinux configs to point to the place for certain machines
18:01
(you can base that on network or mac address)
18:02
<adeel>
interesting...too bad you can't do a session type thing with ldm
18:02
<warren>
haha... somebody is posting spam to the spamassassin bugzilla.
18:02
<Ryan52>
heh
18:02
adeel: well, wait, what exactly do you need.
18:03
it could be possible, depending on what differences you need.
18:05* warren sees if there is anything upstream important to build in fedora
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18:07
<rjune__>
warren: why are you working tonight?
18:07
<warren>
rjune__: only 2pm
18:07
oh man. It got down to 70F last night. I was freezing.
18:09
<rjune__>
pussy
18:09
you and your hawaiian winters.
18:09
of course, we're all jealous of you
18:10
<adeel>
Ryan52, 2 completely different environments, preferably selectable...either through a drop down menu, or via username
18:10
<rjune__>
jammcq and I routinely see 0F, and cliebow gets even colder
18:10
<Ryan52>
adeel: what does "environment" mean?
18:10
adeel: window managers?
18:11
<adeel>
Ryan52, no, the WM can stay the same...but i need different apps for the different sessions....basically 1 session is for internal users, with the other being for public/kiosk users
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18:11
<tinpardo>
hi
18:11
merry chirstmas
18:12
<rjune__>
and happy new year
18:13
<Ryan52>
adeel, probably no easy way to do that without separate vms, and choosing from a host list..
18:13
if you use separate window managers you might be able to have one show certain things and the other show the other things, but...that's hackish and messy.
18:13
<adeel>
Ryan52, hmmm...yeah i figured as much...i'll fiddle with it later on then
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18:32
<warren>
Ryan52: any more plans to change ldm?
18:32
Ryan52: that latest change fixes something that was annoying me, so maybe tag...
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18:34* warren just tags it
18:38
<Ryan52>
no more plans.
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20:21
<petre>
warren, ping
20:22
<warren>
petre: pong
20:22
petre: tried the untested F10 image?
20:22
I tried it, it seems to work.
20:22
<petre>
no, hope to try tomorrow, haven't had any days off yet
20:22
gotta work the day after xmas, too
20:23
<warren>
petre: ok, spinning a new one for upload
20:23
<petre>
any idea on the selinux rule breaking rpcbind on f9?
20:23
or, more precisely, what I need to do to fix it?
20:23
<warren>
petre: did you build that on a F9 host?
20:23* petre has generally run with selinux set to warn
20:24
<petre>
warren, yes
20:24
<warren>
all updates installed?
20:24
<petre>
hmm, I think so, although that was a few days ago, and there are some updates nagging me now
20:25
<warren>
petre: try installing all updates on the host and do it again, see if it happens again
20:25
<petre>
ok
20:25
<warren>
oh
20:25
I didn't put your latest quickstart RPM in the repo
20:25* warren does that now
20:26
<petre>
warren, speaking of which, what is the process for getting a new version into the repo, should I happen to make one?
20:27
<warren>
petre: is the package review complete?
20:27
petre: approved?
20:27
<petre>
Fabrice said the package was approved
20:27
<warren>
petre: if so, you can follow the fedora package process, checkin and build it directly in fedora
20:27
<petre>
I haven't looked at the bugzilla ticket since then
20:28
got a link to something that explains that process?
20:30
<warren>
petre: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/Join
20:31
<petre>
warren, oh, good, that was the page I found
20:35
<warren>
petre: oh, you need to do the "Get Sponsored" procedure, I'll sponsor you.
20:36
<petre>
warren, ok, tx. Need to get fedora-packager installed and familiarize myself with koji
20:37
<warren>
petre: you need to get your account sponsored, request the CVS stuff for this new package, and familiarize yourself with the tools.
20:41
<petre>
warren, ok, I've applied to the packager group
20:44
<warren>
petre: ok done, will take ~1 hour for CVS to work with that account
20:44
petre: you can request CVS module creation in the mean time
20:50
<petre>
warren, will livecd-creator update the packages in the cache I specified with --cache= ?
20:50
<warren>
petre: yes
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21:44
<petre>
warren, I'm getting the same 'selinux is blocking rpcbind' error on a brand new build
21:45
just updated the host, too
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