IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 2 November 2012   (all times are UTC)

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01:22
<lee>
hello. I want to create a fat client that will auto-login as guest, but I don't want to use a "desktop environment" per se, I just want it to go into openbox (the fat clients aren't very fat and just need to run a browser). what options do I have to pass to ltsp-build-client to do that, or alternatively, what do I have to do to make that happen?
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05:54
<muppis>
lee, if you just want to run browser in client I suggest you look up how to build thin client in kiosk mode.
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09:35
<ltspuser_62>
ho there
09:35
I'm looking to deploy LTSP. We need to publish IE8 for a warehouse operation, is this possible?
09:43
<sep>
ie8 is microsoft. are you sure ltsp is what you want ?
09:45
<elias_a>
ltspuser_62: 1) Is there a real reason to use proprietary crap like IE8? 2) I such a reason would exist, the "real reasons" very often make running IE under Wine not an option.
09:46
ltspuser_62: If you really have to have IE, use Windoze terminal server.
09:54
<ltspuser_62>
If i were to choose windows, then firstly i'd spell it correctly, and secondly i wouldn't be posting here. It was a serious question with cost savings in mind.
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10:00
<sep>
ltspuser_62, i think making IE8 work on ltsp will be a nightmare . Especially if you need with bug for bug compatibillity, including all the propriatary pieces that makes your website only work on IE8 in the first place
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10:49
<elias_a>
Mmmm... I did spell windoze correctly... didn't I?
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11:20
<effenberg>
w/e
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14:21
<Aces_High>
I'm running an Ubuntu 10.04 LTSP server, and I can't get automatic session selection working. I've tried setting the LDM_SESSION option but it isn't being honored. Is there another way to force the session I want? I've also tried removing all other available sessions but the failsafe xterm refuses to go away.
14:24
Also, if anyone knows anything about getting Xmonad to work as an available session for clients, that would be great too, but I'm not quite as concerned about that.
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14:39
<lee>
muppis: thanks, that looks like exactly what I want! testing it now.
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15:06
<solfan>
I have spent 2 weeks trying to get LTSP to work (I am a Linux newb). Last night at midnight, I finally was able to boot up my laptop PXE and bring up a CentOS desktop. When I try with the Wyse SX0 thin client, it will not boot. I can't really even spot an error it moves so fast and then hangs. Anyone had success with Wyse sx0?
15:07* vagrantc didn't even know there was an LTSP port for CentOS
15:07
<solfan>
works great on my laptop pxe booting
15:08
I followed red hat instructions
15:09
But, the wyse terminal did the same thing with Ubuntu. That's why I'm giving CentOS a try. But, I couldn't even get the Laptop to pxe boot Ubuntu on LTSP.
15:09
<vagrantc>
i see
15:09
<||cw>
pxe booting it?
15:10
what OS versions?
15:10
AMD Geode is kinda old, the newer kernels might not work on it as 686 is what's required, unless you compile your own
15:11
<solfan>
Yes.. PXE booting. CentOS 6.3 - I used i386 client (--arch i386).
15:11
<||cw>
actually kinda funny, since ubuntu finally started enabling a certain 586 SoC nic driver by default, but then dropped 586 support so the SoC won't boot anyway
15:12
total derp move
15:12
can you boot a centos liveUSB on it?
15:13
<solfan>
The thin client screen has "[<c0a2ecba>] ? gunzip+0x0/0x35d" type errors all down the screen
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15:14
<solfan>
I haven't tried liveUSB. It's stuck in a pxe boot mode now and the reset instructions I found aren't helpful
15:14
<||cw>
:/
15:15
does centos have an older kernel, or a 586 kernel, in their repo?
15:15
ubuntu doens't
15:15
10.04 lts should work though
15:15
<solfan>
Not sure. Seems like the command was just like "ltsp-client --arch i386" and it downloaded whatever it got. (I'm sorry I'm not more helpful. I have learned a lot, but not enough)
15:16
<||cw>
maybe 10.10 and 11.04, I think 11.10 is when the dropped 586
15:18
<solfan>
I am open to checking out other thin clients if one is known to work
15:18
I looked at these because they're pxe boot and can get them for about 4 bucks each.
15:19
Is there a wyse terminal that is known to work well?
15:19* vagrantc wants an LTSP hardware library
15:20
<vagrantc>
there are all these slightly obscure models, and i can't really usefully test them all
15:20
<solfan>
haha.. yea
15:21
I am trying not to give up. The client is wanting to just install Windows at this point. I have over 60 hours in "playing" with this. I don't want them to give up yet if we can make this work.
15:21
<||cw>
the problem with a lot of the pxe bootable ones is in the graphics drivers. they just tend to be way crappy.
15:22
<solfan>
So, is just buying some old PC's better?
15:22
<||cw>
I can't even use basic P2 400's with intel video with 1024x768 rdp to run a web browser. way to laggy.
15:22
<vagrantc>
wow, the diffstat for the last upstream version seemingly targeted at fedora to current ltsp-trunk: 224 files changed, 12733 insertions(+), 9964 deletions(-)
15:22
<||cw>
P3 700+ with slightly newer intel video work fine
15:23
<solfan>
These guys are using terminals that don't even pxe boot on their windows terminal server
15:23
way old
15:23
<||cw>
that's fine, the embedded OS's tend to have tweaked drivers for the hardware and often perform well
15:24
<solfan>
ahh
15:24
<||cw>
or, well enough at least
15:25
<solfan>
maybe I can find some cheap small form factor systems and yank the hard drives out. I was really hoping to find some thin clients. They are used to them and they don't take up much space.
15:25
<||cw>
P3 SFF systems are also very cheap, and while they use more power than the wyse's, they're still fairly efficient.
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15:26
<||cw>
my local supply has run out though, been recycling P4 SFF's, ones with speedstep so they aren't too bad on power either
15:27
<solfan>
I wonder if a rasberri pi (or whatever they're called lol) would work
15:28
<||cw>
there's a project for it, but I've not heard anyone impressed with it yet
15:28
it's still a dev platform, so its code hasn't been optimized
15:29
and there's still some parts not open, like broadcom just a week or so ago release open blob wrappers for some drivers so you can actually build your own kernel
15:31
<solfan>
ahh.. I am no where near building kernels lol
15:32
When a buddy of mine started asking questions and telling me to type commands, I explained "I barely know "ls" and "cd" right now. Slow down!"
15:35
<lee>
solfan: raspberry pi doesn't a) support pxe booting (but you could stick a kernel on the sd card) and b) doesn't have accelerated X support yet
15:37
<solfan>
ok. I am searching trying to find a terminal that will work. Or perhaps some old boxes to use.
15:37
<||cw>
you could probably get one of those hdmi android things and run an rdp or vnc client in it though, but that's not really using ltsp
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15:39
<solfan>
can you RDP to LTSP?
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15:41
<vagrantc>
LTSP is just a collection of services
15:41
<||cw>
ltsp is more of a way to boot a diskless thin client.
15:42
ldm and rdp and vnc are all things it can connect to
15:42
they are separate services
15:42
<vagrantc>
you can install xrdp on any LTSP server...
15:42
and log into it using RDP
15:42
ldm can connect via SSH and RDP by default, probably could also write a VNC plugin for it.
15:44
<lee>
I'm gonna have to set up an ubuntu repository on the LAN, ltsp-build-client on 2Mbps ADSL is teeth-grindingly slow as it pulls down everything
15:45
<vagrantc>
lee: i recommend using a caching proxy, such as approx, apt-cacher-ng, or similar
15:45
<||cw>
lee: apt-cacher-ng
15:45
<lee>
(and as I expect to be doing that lots of times until it's juuust right...)
15:46
oh, hmm
15:46
<||cw>
just set it up as a proxy for apt, then it'll cache all apt sources, even ppa's
15:47
and use "mirror/http/proxy=" on your linux kernel append lines in your pxelinux.cfg's for netboot images, it'll use the proxy by default
15:48
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/netboot/
15:48
<solfan>
hmm.. I will look up installing xrdp - Maybe that would work with their old clients that can RDP but not PXE
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16:07
<lee>
hmm, I might run out of space on this ltsp service, I thought 8GB / would be more than enough...
16:07
er, server
16:11
<||cw>
heh
16:11
using nbd or nfs?
16:12
<vagrantc>
if you're using a lightweight desktop, that'd be enough...
16:12
i.e. something other than gnome or kde
16:12
<||cw>
I ofund that durring build-out when I'm rebuilding the image a couple times to tweak each new client, that I need enough room to store 4-5 copies of the image
16:12
<lee>
whatever the default is, I've just installed a new vm to run ltsp, and told it ltsp-build-client --fat-client --kiosk
16:12
<vagrantc>
fat-clients take a lot more too
16:13
<||cw>
yeah, full desktop in the client image
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16:18
<lee>
yeah, and a whole bunch of crap I dont' care about at all =)
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16:20
<lee>
right, it's finished building the image, let's see if it works... gotta go to work to do that though, bbl!
16:25
<solfan>
I installed xrdp. Works great. On everything except the thin clients lol
16:26
<vagrantc>
doh.
16:26
<solfan>
This has been happening for a month. I'm used to it lol
16:26
every turn, there's a boulder blocking me
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16:42
<||cw>
lee: you can pxe boot virtual machines for general testing...
16:42
solfan: maybe just need to enable some non-default feature?
16:47
<solfan>
Hmm.. I wouldn't even begin to know where to research it. I am going to try to RDP on another wyse sx0 (That isn't locked into pxe mode) and see if that works
16:47
Both windows systems that I've tried RDP to the server work great
16:49
<||cw>
xrpd support lists/forums is where I'd start
16:49
and know what RDP version the thin client uses
16:51
<solfan>
k
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18:14
<blakes>
Does anyone know if there is a CUPS alternative for 12.04. Cups (1.5) crashes whenever a printer is added, whenever a Mac prints a postscript job and if three people submit a job at the same time
18:15
<mip5>
Hi - ltsp on ubuntu 12.04. We've got 12 new clients, and the displays have a different aspect ratio - they are wider than the other ones. How can I provide more display options for these clients?
18:16
<blakes>
mip5, we have a varying set of display types in our lab, and I have had no problem with ltsp clients using different resolutions and so on.
18:17
I am using the same version of ubuntu as you
18:17
<mip5>
blakes: what options do you have? I only have 1024 x 768 and 800 x 600
18:17
<blakes>
Depends on the monitor....
18:19
I have some old hires CRTs, some lcds, and so on. I haven't had to make any alterations to the image and the thin clients sense the monitor type without a fuss.
18:19
Are you using thin or thick clients
18:23
<mip5>
they are thick clients
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18:27
<||cw>
mip5: the client driver should autodetect.
18:29
only issue's I've had are 17" crt's using a really high resolution simply because they can, X_MODE_0=1024x768 brings them down to readable
18:31
<lee>
||cw: yeah, but I had to go in anyway (just didn't realise there'd be a 2 hour setup period beforehand
18:31
unfortuantely it didn't work, but dhcp doesn't seem to be running ... or available in /etc/init.d/ on the ltsp, so I don't know what's going on there
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18:32
<mip5>
||cw: So if the client driver isn't autodetecting (or appears not to be), can I force an update or something?
18:32
<blakes>
ARRRRG!!! CUPS is sucking in a big way!
18:38
Why would it crash with every fricken job.
18:39
<||cw>
blakes: corrupt driver?
18:39
mip5: depends on the driver and why its not behaving
18:39
<blakes>
There are no errors.... what would I look for? HP 4050 PS
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18:40
<blakes>
I have matched 4050's with a class to share them.
18:41
a lab of 20 kids trying to print a small jpg, is choking the system...
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18:41
<blakes>
so I am sitting here, sudo service cups restart with every job!
18:44
I tried to move the printers onto a separate server box, but the f-ing ltsp clients couldn't find the shared printers. There HAS to be an alternative!
18:44
<lee>
cups is falling over but not leaving anything in syslog?
18:45
<blakes>
not that I can see.... I'll look again
18:46
<lee>
(or wherever logging is defined to go in the config file...)
18:46
for me cups just works, but we're just using plain text, sorry
18:47
<blakes>
if I grep -i cups /var/log/syslog, I get a bunch of this undecipherable:
18:47
Nov 2 11:44:32 freyja kernel: [653520.981130] type=1400 audit(1351881872.138:40578): apparmor="ALLOWED" operation="mknod" parent=1 profile="/usr/sbin/cupsd" name="/run/cups/certs/0" pid=2056 comm="cupsd" requested_mask="c" denied_mask="c" fsuid=0 ouid=0
18:47
Which looks to me like a successful job
18:50
What about forcing the upgrade to 1.6 (now at 1.5).... apt-get won't do it.
18:52
<lee>
the only time I've had trouble with cups, "checkpc -f" fixes it
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18:54
<blakes>
checkpc? that's a tool for the old *nix lp system. not installed on my system. should I install lprng?
18:54
<lee>
oh, sorry, yeah, that's lprng not even cups
18:54
so I guess I don't use it at all, and I'll shut up now =)
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19:10
<blakes>
my thin clients are getting the Upgrade to 12.10 notice. Can I turn it off?
19:12
Cups Error_log says: ippReadFile() returned IPP_ERROR! Any guesses.... please.
19:15
<vagrantc>
blakes: have you reported a bug on launchpad? while we try to be helpful in #ltsp, we aren't CUPS experts, so you should get help from ubuntu
19:16
admittedly, there's not a lot to go on with CUPS problems ... i've tried turning on maximum verbosity and it still often hangs without any errors in the log
19:17
<blakes>
Yeah... #ubuntu is mainly kids with single-user systems, and #cups is vacant. I come here last hoping there is someone with my config who has run into my problem. sorry for the break in rules
19:17
<muppis>
blakes, and about upgrade notices. It's pop ups only sudo users. If it annoys, you can try one of these: http://www.tolaris.com/2012/06/01/disabling-update-notifier-in-ubuntu-12-04/
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19:18
<blakes>
here's my cups error_log. http://pastebin.com/UUWVeGFE
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19:19
<muppis>
By default only user id 1000 (user created during installation got that) is only one in sudo group.
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19:36
<lee>
blakes: http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/drucken-schlaegt-oftmals-mit-dieser-meldung-f/?highlight=cups#post-2043588 ? (stop cups, edit /etc/cups/printers.conf as root, comment out that AuthInfoRequired line, save and restart)
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20:09
<vagrantc>
blakes: no break in any rules, per se, just hoping to find appropriate resources to help :)
20:10
when i was younger and foolisher, i came into #ltsp with an on-topic bat, but i now know that is the wrong approach, #ltsp doestry to help users in all manner of ways :)
20:11
or was that youngerer and foolisherer?
20:13
<lee>
you could just say: when I was a noob...
20:13
which neatly encapsulates both concepts
20:13
<vagrantc>
plenty of old newbs in the world
20:14
<lee>
yeah, and as far as ltsp is concerned, I'm one of them =)
20:14
I like the sound of "simple webkiosk mode", is there any more detail on passing --kiosk to ltsp-build-client? I want a browser to run locally on the client, and that's about it
20:15
<vagrantc>
that's basically what the --kiosk is supposed to do
20:15
<lee>
I've just tried "ltsp-build-client --kiosk" but it builds an image that a) prompts for a login and b) gets me to a desktop after logging in, neither of which I want
20:15
<vagrantc>
on Ubuntu? what version?
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20:15
<lee>
the ltps is ubuntu 12.04
20:16
ltsp too
20:16
<vagrantc>
i recently made some updates to the kiosk plugin in Debian
20:16
<lee>
or should that be ltsps
20:16
<vagrantc>
the ltsp is probably 5.something
20:16
ltsp-info should tell you more information about the ltsp-specific bits
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20:17
<lee>
5.3.7
20:17
for the ltsp-server/client packages, anyhow
20:19
it helpfully provides what looks like dpkg output for other stuff I don't care about (e.g. ldm)
20:19
<klausade>
vagrantc: hello. I'll have a look at the kiosk plugin one of these days.
20:20
lee: I recently put up a truckload of webkiosk at a libary, just followed partly this http://www.alandmoore.com/blog/2011/11/05/creating-a-kiosk-with-linux-and-x11-2011-edition/ works fine.
20:24* vagrantc waves to klausade
20:26
<vagrantc>
lee: heh. i changed it a bit. you need to set SCREEN_07=kiosk
20:26* klausade waves back.
20:28
<lee>
klausade: I'll give that a read, thanks
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20:28
<lee>
vagrantc: see earlier comment re: noob =) do I add that to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf then ltsp-update-image?
20:29
<vagrantc>
lee: you should edit lts.conf in your tftp dir ... usually /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf or /srv/tftp/.../lts.conf
20:30
<lee>
ah, ok, thanks
20:34
<vagrantc>
the document klausade mentioned appears to be setting it up from scratch
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20:40
<klausade>
yes. the link I gave install a minimall debian on disk, it's not a thinclient at all. /me probably broke aaallll the rules in this channel for suggesting such a thing...
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20:42
<vagrantc>
no
20:42
i mean, no rules broken :)
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20:47
<||cw>
sometimes it's what you gotta do. the link is relevant for ltsp too though
20:48
and I for one appreciate it, writing a webkit based specialty browser has been on my list for a long time, and I even started a pygtk one a while back as a proof of concept
20:48
this one look better than mine :)
20:53
<lee>
klausade: works for me, if that can be served over pxe so much the better
20:54
I set up similar (on disk cut down linux, launches browser, that's it) just over ten years ago
20:55
then I moved and worked for a different company, now I've moved back and some fucker's gone and replaced all the machines with XP and SBS
20:55
with GPO that looks like it was designed by a monkey with a cocaine habit
20:55
so it's time to claim back some control
20:59
also, vagrantc: I don't have lts.conf anywhere other than /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf apart from an example further down the i386 tree
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22:36
<vagrantc>
lee: sorry slow to respond
22:37
lee: you can create a simple lts.conf in the correct location
22:37
just needs two lines
22:37
[default]
22:37
YOUR_LTSP_VARIABLES=blahblahblah
22:41
<lee>
oh, ok, thanks
22:41
<vagrantc>
apt-get install ltsp-docs
22:41
man lts.conf
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