IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 10 December 2009   (all times are UTC)

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01:09
<dkostousov>
Hi.
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01:19
<Appiah>
heya
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02:10
<tarzeau>
my ltsp client says:
02:11
/: waiting for 192.33.97.211:/opt/ltsp/i386.karmic
02:11
/tmp: waiting for (null)
02:11
what's wrong?
02:11
i can mount this export....
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02:52
<pts>
I've been studying and trying out LTSP for over a week now, so we can get a better setup of the existing LTSP server at the school I work. But there are two things we're having trouble understanding. First, lts.conf i /var/lib... doesnt seem to be read, and second, when opening a terminal on the client and browse the FS, the client is seeing the server root, and not the jail. Can anyone give us a pointer to where to look for information abo
02:52
ut these issues?
02:53
we're using Ubuntu 9.10
02:54
<Appiah>
second is not a issue
02:54
thats how it is
02:54
the first issue with lts.conf , pastebin it and let us see whats not working
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02:59
<pts>
ok, so it's just a matter of disabling nautilus, terminal alt+F2 etc on the clients, so the users cant see more than we want. I'll be posting the lts.conf soon
03:01
http://www.pastebin.org/63007
03:01
<Appiah>
yupp its a general linux server configuration there
03:02
[example] ?
03:02
<pts>
we're just testing, so for now that name is not so important :)
03:02
<Appiah>
should say default
03:03
then it will affect all clients
03:03
either you type default or a mac address
03:06
<pts>
Thanks mate :) That did the trick. Cant belive it was so easy and obvious
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03:16
<Appiah>
:)
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04:34
<pts>
I'm a bit stuck again here. I want to change the preferences entries in LDM, but I cant seem to find out how/where to do that. Any suggesions?
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06:41
<cheesyking>
Hi all, got a bit of a problem with an ubuntu 9.10 ltsp install
06:42
at random some of my clients won't boot into the gui, they just sit there at the chroot text login
06:42
any suggestions
06:42
<Appiah>
check the xorg log
06:43
it will tell why the LDM would not launch
06:43
<cheesyking>
where the x log gone? donesn't seem to be in /var/log
06:44
<Appiah>
/var/log/Xorg.0.log
06:44
on the thin client
06:45
<cheesyking>
right...
06:46
I've got xorg.7.log on a client that did start LDM but nothing on a client that didn't start it
06:46
<Appiah>
hmm =/
06:46
<cheesyking>
indeed
06:46
<Appiah>
are they all the same modell?
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06:46
<cheesyking>
yep, all exactly the same hardware
06:46
<jetienne_>
q. what is the kernel version provided by ubuntu ltsp ?
06:47
<Appiah>
wouldnt that the current kernel?
06:47
<cheesyking>
2.6.31-14-generic
06:48
<jetienne_>
cheesyking: thanks
06:48
<cheesyking>
the odd thing is that if I hit reset enough times it will eventually start
06:49
<alkisg>
jetienne_: on my Karmic I have 2.6.31-16.53
06:50
<jetienne_>
alkisg: do you experience kernel panic issue ?
06:50
<alkisg>
No
06:50
<jetienne_>
alkisg: linked to nbd
06:50
alkisg: ok thanks
06:50
<cheesyking>
on a client where LDM didn't start I get "nc: invalid option --'f'" nc -h for help
06:50
<alkisg>
cheesyking: if it's a video problem, you can verify/work around it by put it XSERVER=vesa in lts.conf
06:50
<cheesyking>
when I ctrl+alt f7
06:51
just trying that now... thanks
06:51
<alkisg>
There's a bug report for the nc -f somewhere on launchpad afaik
06:59
<cheesyking>
OK XSERVER=vesa didn't help, I'm just going to have a look on launchpad for the nc-f bug
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07:34
<ehrenpr>
anyone around who can help me with setting up italk, I keep getting service not running or existing keys are broken.
07:34
italc
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07:35
<Appiah>
are you use the ppa?
07:36
<ehrenpr>
I have tried both on the server and in chroot, and both give me the same responce when tring to access the master from a thin client, however I can when I am working directly on the server
07:36
what is ppa?
07:37
<Appiah>
What dist are you running?
07:37
<ehrenpr>
edubuntu karmic
07:38
<Appiah>
https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-italc-devel/+archive/ppa
07:38
they might work better
07:39
<alkisg>
ehrenpr: is the user on the thin client in the admin group?
07:40
<ehrenpr>
yes.
07:41
I can log in with the same account directly on the server. But I cant when I am on my thin client machine, which is what I normally have access to.
07:41
<alkisg>
I don't get it, please describe it with more words
07:42
Don't logon with the same account on both server+thin client at the same time.
07:42
<ehrenpr>
I dont I, Log outthen go to the other machine.
07:43
<alkisg>
OK, so when you're logged on on the server as user "ehrenpr", you can see/control the client "someotheruser" on the thin client,
07:43
but you cannot do it if you logon as "ehrenpr" from the thin client?
07:43
<ehrenpr>
Currently I have itlac installed on the server using sudo aptitude install libitalc italc-client italc-master
07:43
yes
07:43
<scottmaccal>
Morning all.
07:44
<alkisg>
Good morning. ehrenpr, how are you testing now? with 2 thin clients, sitting on one of them?
07:45
<ehrenpr>
good morning.. Sorry I had to go last night and was already running late.
07:45
I am currently sitting in front of the server.
07:46
I have a client right next to me not logged on
07:47
<alkisg>
You can't see not-logged-on clients when you install italc *only* on the server
07:47
<ehrenpr>
I did however just test it from logging on a client machine with no luck
07:48
my problem isnt not seeing clients. its opening the master interface. I can control the clients when I am on the server
07:48
<alkisg>
ehrenpr: Logon with some user on the thin client, give this command, and upload it to pastebin: avahi-browse -trp _italc._tcp
07:51
<ehrenpr>
http://pastebin.com/m7ad75711
07:53
<alkisg>
ehrenpr: why does ltsp26 have 2 IPs?
07:53
Ah, sorry, it's on the server
07:54
<ehrenpr>
I have it setup in a nat configuration
07:54
<alkisg>
So now if you run italc-launcher from ltsp26, what do you see?
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07:56
<ehrenpr>
No authentication keys were found or your old one are broken. please create a new pair using ica
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07:57
<alkisg>
What italc version are you running? dpkg -l italc-master
07:57
<ehrenpr>
1:1.0.9.1-0ubu
07:57
<alkisg>
dpkg -l italc-master|grep ^ii
07:58
<ehrenpr>
ii italc-master 1:1.0.9.1-0ubuntu16
07:58
<alkisg>
Again from the client, run: id
07:58
<_UsUrPeR__>
gadi: ping?
07:59
<alkisg>
ehrenpr: so that we can see on which groups you're in
07:59
<ehrenpr>
what do you want me to do on the client
07:59
<alkisg>
id
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08:00
<alkisg>
Just run this command ^^^
08:00
and paste the output here.
08:00
<ehrenpr>
gid=1001(artroom) groups(artroom1)
08:00
<alkisg>
Then you're not on the admin group
08:00
<_SKiTZO>
i want to set up a ltsp solution for a customer who need basic office machines but cant afford hardware
08:00
<alkisg>
(03:39:56 μμ) alkisg: ehrenpr: is the user on the thin client in the admin group?
08:00
(03:40:47 μμ) ehrenpr: yes.
08:01
<_SKiTZO>
are there any thin clients that are recommended?
08:01
for use with ltsp i mean?
08:01
<ehrenpr>
I am logged onto the client as a student cause I am logged on to the server as my admin user
08:01
<alkisg>
ehrenpr: well then logon the other way around
08:01
and try again
08:01
<ehrenpr>
ok
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08:02
<_UsUrPeR__>
_SKiTZO: repurposed machines are always a great place to start
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08:04
<_SKiTZO>
we have some but not enough
08:04
<ehrenpr>
alright now its working..I have to check it on my main pc. Its running the client as a VM on a win 7 machine
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08:14
<cheesyking>
OK I havn't found anything on launchpad regarding my problems with LDM / X not starting... is there a way to force a client machine to try to restart these so I can watch what's happening?
08:16
<_SKiTZO>
arnt there any thin clients recommended for LTSP ?
08:16
<Appiah>
well
08:16
...
08:17
anything with 128ram is about ok I think
08:17
less then that , some problems can occur
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08:18
<_SKiTZO>
ok. so i must be able to install linux on it and it needs 128mb ram?
08:18
<Appiah>
no
08:18
you dont need to install anything on the thin clients
08:18
ltsp uses pxe boot
08:19
<_SKiTZO>
ok
08:19
but the thin client must be some x86 copatible cpu then
08:19
<Appiah>
128 or more is recommended , if you are planning on localapps you would need maybe 512(?!)
08:19
<_SKiTZO>
hehe
08:19
<Appiah>
yes x86 or x86-64
08:20
<_SKiTZO>
how is it made? does it autoconfigure xorg and run some vnc or something like that?
08:20
<cheesyking>
I thought you could use different architectures if you wanted
08:21
<Appiah>
I myself only built x86 and x86-64
08:21
never tried anything else
08:21
there is ltsp-build-client --arch=<archehere>
08:21
<_SKiTZO>
ok
08:25
<Appiah>
X today is pretty much autoconfiguring itself
08:26
and that's what linux dists use today. If you need to force some X setting it can be done in a file called lts.conf
08:26
you can define if all or just some clients should use does settings
08:26
LTSP uses a component called LDM to login to servers, it does not use XDMCP or VNC
08:27
hope that answers your questions _SKiTZO
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08:35
<_SKiTZO>
thanks it does
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08:54
<dmarkey_>
so what improvements is there around the flash problem
08:54
<sbalneav>
!flash
08:54
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "flash" :: Yes, flash sucks. Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try the HQtube plugin. Install greasemonkey for firefox, and see http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/24999
08:55
<cheesyking>
OK I've fixed my problem with LDM not always starting!!! I removed the splash keyword from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
08:55
<sbalneav>
I've been trying to figure out/play with the idea of turning the HQTube greasemonkey script into a plugin that can be globally appplied.
08:55
As well, I've had some success with gnash
08:55
<dmarkey_>
wow, hqtube.com was defo not what i wanted
08:56
<cheesyking>
Anyone got any ideas why that should have worked? I was just trying to see what was happening at bootup, I didn't expect it to actually fix the problem!
08:56
<sbalneav>
Yeah, well the link was in my post
08:56
<dmarkey_>
i'll save that other one for later
08:57
<sbalneav>
cheesyking: Sometimes bootsplash can cause problems on machines with buggy bios/video.
08:57
so by removing it, you fixed the problem.
08:57
Searching for/applying bios updates for your machine may help.
08:58
<cheesyking>
cool, well they are foxconn!
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08:58
<cheesyking>
guess I should have coughed up for proper intel boards
08:59
<sbalneav>
dmarkey_: I'd like to figure out how to fix the HQtube gm script to work on ALL .flv movies from any site, as opposed to just youtube
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08:59
<CAN-o-SPAM>
hey all
08:59
<ehrenpr>
alkisg you still here?
08:59
<alkisg>
ehrenpr: yup
08:59
<sbalneav>
unfortunately, since it's a greasemonkey script, it has to be installed individually on each users config, since greasemonkey doesn't support a "/usr/share/scripts" area
09:00
hence my other desire for making it a plugin.
09:00
<alkisg>
sbalneav: c'mon... you know how these things are done: you first have to patch greasemonkey to accept globally installed scripts :D
09:00
<ehrenpr>
sorry, my first class showed up. I determined that the cause of my problem was my VM connection that I was using on my teacher pc. I Think I have to set up networking diffrent.
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09:01
<ehrenpr>
thanks for all of your help.... I think I can figure that out.
09:01
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Thought about that too.
09:01
<alkisg>
ehrenpr: np, if you can't figure it out ask again :)
09:02
<sbalneav>
might be easier. I talked to the GM upstream people, but they didn't seem to interested in the idea. "Might be a nice feature, but not an area we're interested in" was the response.
09:02
<dmarkey_>
sbalneav: so, this plays flv through embedded mplayer?
09:02
<sbalneav>
dmarkey_: yes.
09:02
<dmarkey_>
but.. it still goes pretty raw over the network
09:02
<alkisg>
Grhm... so they'd accept such a patch, or not?
09:03
<sbalneav>
From some tests I've done: 5 people watching youtube video on ltsp terminals with flash = 2.3 loadavg, and very jerky
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09:03
<alkisg>
dmarkey_: well it doesn't eat CPU, that's a huge plus. And, xv needs less bandwidth than whatever flash uses.
09:03
<sbalneav>
5 people watching video with HQtube plugin = 0.4 loadavg, and smooth
09:03
<dmarkey_>
sound in sync?
09:04
<sbalneav>
yes
09:04
perfect sound.
09:04
<dmarkey_>
they way sun ray does it is nice
09:04
<alkisg>
I don't think most thin clients would be able to decode flash video
09:04
<sbalneav>
Not familiar with them.
09:04
<dmarkey_>
sorry, actually thats for mp4 played through media player
09:05
it uses some kind of a filter to stream the mp4 to the thin client, and it decodes it
09:05
<sbalneav>
dmarkey_: localapps, in other words.
09:05
<alkisg>
If one has good enough clients to decode flash video, he should use localapps
09:05
<sbalneav>
like what we do.
09:06
<dmarkey_>
not really, you see sunrays dont actually have on OS as such
09:06
they have like 16Mb firmware
09:06
<sbalneav>
16mb firmware = an os
09:06
just not an os you know about :)
09:07
<dmarkey_>
so with localapps, if i click an MP4 file on my desktop, what happens
09:07
<sbalneav>
If you have totem loaded as a localapp, totem pulls down the mp4, and decodes it locally
09:08
<dmarkey_>
totem, so i need half of gnome installed?
09:08
in the chroot
09:08
<sbalneav>
people are installing firefox + flash + java as localapps,, and solving the problem that way.
09:08
dmarkey_: if you want to use totem, yeah.
09:08
<dmarkey_>
is vlc an option
09:09
<sbalneav>
Why don't you try it and let us know?
09:09
I can't see why it wouldn't be.
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09:09
<johnny>
suprised tehre isn't a less gnomey gstraemer player then..
09:09
<_USUrPeR_>
shawnp0wers: morning
09:10
<dmarkey_>
get me get the workflow, i click mp4 on my desktop, what gets executed ltsp-local-open file.avi, and that copies the file to the thin client and spawns the local player?
09:10
let*
09:11
<sbalneav>
I don't thing anyone's tried this for vlc or totem
09:11
but I know people use this for firefox + flash
09:11
and in that case, the .flv streams down to the client, and then it's decoded by flash on the client.
09:12
so no raw video frames go across the network, just the compressed flv
09:12
<dmarkey_>
sure
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09:13
<sbalneav>
But, of course, this assumes you have powerful enough clients to run flash + firefox
09:13
for those who DONT, or don't want to run localapps (like me) then the HQtube plugin begins to look attractive.
09:13
<dmarkey_>
and.. you end up with a disjoined session.
09:15
<alkisg>
One could argue that "you get the best of both worlds" :P :D
09:15
<dmarkey_>
couldnt the plugin simply captures the flv data coming into the plugin, streams that to the client and something plays it on the client side
09:15
capture*
09:16
<johnny>
dmarkey_, it seems that youtube might convert catalog to html5 overtime.. they already started iwth some..
09:17
<sbalneav>
dmarkey_: Sure, you can do anything you want.... so long as you program it to do so.
09:17
dmarkey_: What languaged do you know? Want to work on this with me?
09:17
<dmarkey_>
Python
09:17
:)
09:18
<sbalneav>
We'll need C for this probably, since we need some kind of communications mechanism between thin client and the plugin on firefox
09:18
How's your C?
09:19
<dmarkey_>
ive done some samba work, but im a bit rusty
09:20
will we need to create a browser plugin from scratch
09:20
<sbalneav>
Yup, no simple task.
09:20
Or, we could work on a patch for hqtube for global scripts, which is in javascript.
09:21
<dmarkey_>
well, for youtube, we could, based on the URL spawn the client based on that?
09:22
<sbalneav>
The point to all of this is: it's a complex problem, caused by the internet basically making a propriatary technology become a "standard" for how a lot of things are done.
09:22
dmarkey_: depends on if we get passed a url or just a stream.
09:23
<dmarkey_>
it is possible, to spawn flash player on its own
09:23
well, the plugin
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09:23
<alkisg>
Spawn the plugin outside of firefox? That won't be pretty..
09:24
<sbalneav>
I'm not aware that it is, the flashplugin-nonfree just downloads an .so, no executable.
09:24
so you'd have to write some kind of wrapper for it.
09:25
<dmarkey_>
is hqtube broke? its telling me its out of date
09:27
<sbalneav>
There's a patch in the comments section of the webpage
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09:32
<dmarkey_>
nice.. not much in the way of video control :)
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09:39
<johnny>
xembed..
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09:40
<dmarkey_>
I suppose local-apps wouldbe be so bad, if they could have their home directory
09:41
<alkisg>
? the home directory is mounted with sshfs
09:41
<dmarkey_>
oh really, god i'm way behind
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09:54
<_SKiTZO>
ok this is an akward question but are there any alternatives to ltsp that is "strictly server side" ?
09:55
i mean where there is no consept of "localaps"
09:55
that has a lower boot footprint
09:55
?
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09:55
<ogra>
you mean booting in less than 64M ?
09:55
likely only if you build something yourself
09:56
<sbalneav>
_SKiTZO: run just stock LTSP, turn off sound and localdevs
09:56
<_SKiTZO>
ok
09:56
will that reduce the boot image size?
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09:56
<ogra>
the boot image need about 48M ... to use it smoothly you need 64M
09:57
(thats with the changes sbalneav mentioned)
09:57
<_SKiTZO>
im thinking that a bare VNC client couldn't possible take more than 1mb max
09:57
ok
09:57
im not talking about memory footprint
09:57
<ogra>
you forget the kernel and a minimal rootfsd
09:57
<_SKiTZO>
im talkib about boot image footprint
09:57
<ogra>
*rootfs
09:57
yes
09:57
<_SKiTZO>
hm yes
09:57
<ogra>
how would you execute vnc
09:57
<_SKiTZO>
exactly
09:57
<sbalneav>
What does it matter what the boot image size is?
09:57
<ogra>
it needs a minimal system
09:58
<_SKiTZO>
if its going accross the network then it matters
09:58
kernel + xorg + vnc?
09:58
<sbalneav>
the whole thing doesn't go across the network
09:58
<_SKiTZO>
isnt that it?
09:58
isnt it booting over gPXE?
09:58
<Appiah>
vnc? what
09:58
<sbalneav>
Yeah, just the kernel + initrd
09:58
<ogra>
PXE, gPXE, etherboot, whatever you want
09:58
<_SKiTZO>
yes
09:58
<ogra>
but yes, only kernel and initrd
09:59
<sbalneav>
after that it mounts a compressed filesystem via nbd
09:59
<_SKiTZO>
so the boot image is kernel+initrd+xorg + busybox + vnc+ whatever
09:59
and that ads up top around 120mb or something?
09:59
<ogra>
and indeed pulls the single binaries into ram
09:59
like xorg
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09:59
<sbalneav>
I'd say, roughly, about 60 someodd megabytes comes across the network, for an average boot.
09:59
<_SKiTZO>
ah that made sense
10:00
<ogra>
i dont think its more than 30M thats actually go over the net when you boot
10:00
<sbalneav>
last time I measured
10:00
<ogra>
60 ?
10:00
wow
10:00
<sbalneav>
I think
10:00
that's not that bad.
10:00
<_SKiTZO>
it isnt
10:00
someone told me 120
10:00
<ogra>
yeah, i would just have guessed less :)
10:00
<_SKiTZO>
well i can live with 30
10:00
:)
10:01
<ogra>
_SKiTZO, 120 is the size of the server side image
10:01
<_SKiTZO>
ah hehe
10:01
<ogra>
but that only gets mounted
10:01
not pushed through the net
10:01
<_SKiTZO>
ah
10:01
i get it
10:01
<ogra>
and its also compressed
10:01
<_SKiTZO>
i like the architecture
10:01
<ogra>
:)
10:02
<_SKiTZO>
then when it boots it will survive in 64mb mem
10:02
without swapping?
10:02
on the client that is
10:02
<sbalneav>
I've boooted clients in 64 meg
10:02
<_SKiTZO>
if i dont do any localapps
10:02
<sbalneav>
1024x768
10:03
<ogra>
i have *booted* clients in 32M
10:03
<_SKiTZO>
and most of that mem is due to xorg right?
10:03
<ogra>
same resolution
10:03
its just no fun to use them :)
10:03
<_SKiTZO>
so if i replaced xorg with some hacked fbdev vnc
10:04
i would save bunches of mem :P
10:04
and then i can go on ebay and buy el-cheapo thinclients
10:04
yay!
10:04
<ogra>
kernel and initrd need 32M at least ...
10:04
the prob you run itno is that apps want to use the X memory for pixmap caching
10:05
thats what bites you in the end
10:05
<_SKiTZO>
so the server needs gigs and gigs of mem for many clients?
10:05
<ogra>
the client should have some ram too
10:05
<sbalneav>
I run 8 gigs of ram for about 40 clients on one machine.
10:05
<ogra>
X runs on the client
10:06
<dmarkey_>
sbalneav: is there a way to make the video full screen, or seek
10:06
<ogra>
so the pixmap cache is used on your client
10:06
<_SKiTZO>
yes but i would like to run X on the server and use plain vnc
10:06
isnt that possible?
10:06
<ogra>
will be stuttering i guess
10:06
but surely its possible
10:07
<sbalneav>
dmarkey_: how I get fullscreen on a thin client is, I run totem, drop down the sidebar and select youtube, search for video from there.
10:07
<_SKiTZO>
ill definitely try out this. i have a 128mb laptop lying around for testing
10:07
:) thanks for the input
10:08
<ogra>
thats surely enough for a normal LTSP setup with sound and localdevs
10:08
<sbalneav>
_SKiTZO: keep in mind, vnc places a higher processing load on the server AND on the client.
10:08
<dmarkey_>
oh right, but its not possible from hqtube
10:08
<ogra>
(not for local-apps though)
10:08
<sbalneav>
dmarkey_: I think you can resize the "window"
10:08
so "bigger" but not fullscreen.
10:09
<_SKiTZO>
i imagine vnc will cut down on bandwidt
10:09
so if bandwidth is the bottlenec then vnc is a good option
10:09
hm
10:10
<dmarkey_>
the mplayer plugin actually spawns mplayer with the URL of the FLV, all we need to do is make that happen on the client side
10:10
<sbalneav>
"all we need to do"
10:10nubae_ has joined #ltsp
10:10
<dmarkey_>
:)
10:10shawnp0wers has quit IRC
10:11* sbalneav anxiously awaits reams of wonderful code from dmarkey_
10:11
<ogra>
_SKiTZO, i doubt vnc cuts down much on bandwith ... but try yourself :)
10:12
<dmarkey_>
http://pastebin.com/m14c55983
10:13
see -wid option for mplayer
10:13
i wonder if we could have a server side firefox, but imbed using a client side mplayer
10:13
embed*
10:14
<alkisg>
dmarkey_: when you scroll the window, the player also scrolls. They can't be on different machines.
10:14
(unless you write a new plugin especially for that)
10:15
<dmarkey_>
they could be using some X based magic for that, which we can do
10:15
the X server is the common piece
10:16
<alkisg>
The plugin needs to be in the same address space as the browser, to communicate with it
10:16
<ogra>
did you look at the mythbuntu plugins we have in the ubuntu package ?
10:16
i think that does similar stuff with remote viewers
10:17staffencasa has joined #ltsp
10:20
<dmarkey_>
im not even sure how this is working, i dont seem to have an mplayer mozilla plugin installed
10:20
<sbalneav>
"some X based magic" I'd expect :)
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10:21
<dmarkey_>
sbalneav: i knew it :)
10:21
<sbalneav>
I think the hqtube plugin spawns the player as it's own process.
10:22
<dmarkey_>
i cant see any reference to it in that script
10:24
mozplugger-helper is the parent process
10:25
<sbalneav>
player.innerHTML
10:25
it's setting the mimetype
10:25
then mozplugger's doing the magic
10:26
<johnny>
how do i find out what's causing load on a server without iotop :(
10:26
<alkisg>
Disk load? And why not install iotop?
10:27
<johnny>
too old kernel
10:27
whatever comes with latest centos 5.x
10:28
<dmarkey_>
https://forum.fukt.bsnet.se/cgi-bin/man/man2html?7+mozplugger
10:28
i think we could harness this to make our own backend
10:31
which would actually spawn mplayer on the client side
10:36
<alkisg>
That would only work for fast clients. If one has fast clients, why shouldn't he use localapps instead?
10:36
<johnny>
uggh.. i really hope rhel6 comes out some day..
10:37
and then i still have to wait for cpanel to update for it..
10:37
:(
10:37
<dmarkey_>
alkisg: mplayer decoding flash is alot less cpu cycles than flash player
10:37
<alkisg>
Yes, but this already works with the plugin in that page, so?
10:38
<dmarkey_>
on the server side?
10:39
<alkisg>
and, if you install it as a localapp, on the client side
10:39
<nubae_>
alkisg, ... wanna see something cool: www.nubae.com (google wave embedded straight into a website)
10:40
<alkisg>
nubae! Yey! Long time no see... btw ltsp bot's down :D
10:40
<nubae_>
open for all
10:40
oh he is...
10:40
let me run him again then
10:41
<dmarkey_>
alkisg: its better to have as little as possible on the client, i certainly dont want a full browser
10:42
<alkisg>
Why? If the client's fast enough to decode video, it would also take flash ads, games etc off the server
10:42nubae__ has joined #ltsp
10:42
<alkisg>
nubae_: I'm not really sure what new google wave gives us, and to be honest I'm not eager to find out :)
10:42
<dmarkey_>
sbalneav: what's your opinion
10:43
<nubae__>
just collaboration
10:43
it allows u to plugin any app and any 2.0 appliance into a collaborative environment
10:43
thats whats coool about it
10:44
so if I wanted to add a gadget of which there are hundreds
10:44
<alkisg>
What is it? A framework where I can put my plugins if I rewrite them?
10:44
<nubae__>
I could and make it collaborative in a jiffy
10:44
nah... say u want a voice recording and then talking gadget right....
10:44warren has joined #ltsp
10:44
<alkisg>
I'm not even sure what web 2.0 means - I think I'll wait for Web 3.11 :P :D
10:45
<nubae__>
and u wanna make it avaiilable to x,y,.z
10:45
or to anyone
10:45
well just add the gaddget, participants
10:45
and voila
10:45alexqwesa has quit IRC
10:45
<nubae__>
its just super super easy collaboration
10:45
and it works quite well
10:45
<alkisg>
OK, but how does one add a new, non-existing gadget?
10:45
Google apps, libs etc?
10:46shawnp0wers has joined #ltsp
10:46
<nubae__>
yah any gadget at all
10:46
and u write ure own of course
10:47
<alkisg>
So what's the difference from existing toolkits?
10:47
<nubae__>
I'm making a health and fitness monitor based on lots of questions...
10:47
for my parents business
10:47
so itll tell u waht vitamins and minerals and crap to taake
10:47
differnce... ease of use
10:47alexqwesa has joined #ltsp
10:48
<nubae__>
oh... and u can write in java, python, and other lingos too
10:48
I guess its just google opening their SDK up
10:48
<alkisg>
and show that on the web?!
10:49
<nubae__>
yep, everything web based
10:49
<alkisg>
How compatible would python on a web page be?
10:49
<nubae__>
that is the way we are all going I guess
10:49
python is great for the web
10:49
<alkisg>
Well, when linux users have .net preinstalled, and windows users have python preinstalled, then I might take a look :)
10:49
<nubae__>
there are some really powerful frameworks out there for it
10:49
like django
10:50shawnp0wers has quit IRC
10:50
<nubae__>
well, u dont need that to run wave
10:50Ahmuck has joined #ltsp
10:50
<nubae__>
just use the same account u had with gmail
10:50
<alkisg>
I don't know... I've seen google trying a lot of stuff, but most of them are not succesful
10:50
<nubae__>
u want an invite?
10:50
<alkisg>
Nope
10:50
(thanks)
10:50
<nubae__>
) have lots of them
10:51
I dont mind giving them away at all... 22, nothing to do with them
10:51
<alkisg>
Nah, I'd like my toolkits to be widely accepted *before* I invest in learning them
10:53bobby_C has joined #ltsp
10:53
<dro>
have any of you used wyse thin clients with ltsp?
10:53
<nubae__>
hjmmmm looks like someone tried to hack the bot
10:53
thats why its down
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10:58
<_SKiTZO>
ok i installed ltsp and i booted a client
10:58
it worked first time
10:58
but i cant log on
10:58
where do i manage users?
11:00ltsplogbot has joined #ltsp
11:00
<nubae__>
gah, ok
11:00
should be allright now till the next time
11:01
<johnny>
_SKiTZO, where do you think you do?
11:04
<_SKiTZO>
on dos
11:04
no seriously i have a user but i couldnt log in
11:05
wait
11:05
my bad :P
11:05
sorry for the fuzz im just excited that it worked without even not working first hehe
11:05alkisg has quit IRC
11:14
<_SKiTZO>
hm. ok i have added a user on the server. buti can't log in as that user on the client. is there something i am missing?
11:14
i am on debian
11:14
<ogra>
check your auth.log
11:14
and the users ~/.xsession-errors file
11:16
<_SKiTZO>
ah :) well I thought it would depend on X and install those
11:16
<ogra>
it needs a desktop server side indeed
11:16
<_SKiTZO>
heh but i would have made it a dependancy, afterall it is a dependancy, hairy or not
11:17
<ogra>
its not
11:17
you can use a telnet login on the client
11:17
and manage your cmdline database app on the server :)
11:18
<_SKiTZO>
ah. that is exactly what i want to use ltsp for!
11:19
*installing x
11:23jhutchins_lt has joined #ltsp
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11:30
<_SKiTZO>
it worked. yay
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11:38
<SDuensin>
Hello all.
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12:08
<_SKiTZO>
ok i logged in as root
12:09
and the only thing that started was xterm
12:09
no windowmanager nothing
12:09
s i did apt-get install gnome
12:09
was that a good way to do it or should I have done it another way?
12:10
on the client that is
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12:15
<johnny>
on the client?
12:16
probably apt-get install gnome, unless they have a metapackage like ubuntu
12:16
<_SKiTZO>
:)
12:21
<jhutchins_lt>
I'm running ltsp on Debian Lenny (5.0.3). I've set a hostname in dhcpd.conf, but if I remove the hostname from the chroot /etc it gets set to "ltsp".
12:21
Is this a known bug?
12:22
<_SKiTZO>
is it a bug at all?
12:22
i mean it needs a hostname
12:22
and ltsp sounds like a good default
12:22
ah sorry i misread
12:23
i just installed on debian lenny
12:23
and mine got its hostname from dhcp
12:23
sure you configured dhcp correctly?
12:23
rembered to restart the dhcp service etc?
12:23
<alkisg>
jhutchins_lt: What do you mean "if I remove the hostname"? What happens if you don't remove it? Afaik, it's recreated upon each startup...
12:24
<jhutchins_lt>
alkisg: I had a hostname file in /opt/.../etc - that set the hostname correctly, but it would be the same for all hosts. I'm trying to expand beyond my first workstation.
12:25
_SKiTZO: Perhaps I don't have dhcp configured correctly.
12:26
I see something that says I need to have use-host-decl-names on; in dhcpd.conf...
12:27
Ah, or "option hostname <foo>".
12:28
<_SKiTZO>
;)
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12:28
<_SKiTZO>
i used dnsmasq and boy was that refreshing
12:28
it combined dns dhcp and tftpd in one easy to undersstand/configure service
12:29
<jhutchins_lt>
option host-name "<name>"; in the "host" section appears to be a correct form...
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12:32
<_SKiTZO>
jhutchins_lt: booting of the network might happen i ntwo stages
12:32
for example with gpxe chanloaded after pxe
12:32
im not sure but you might be setting the hostname in the wrong stage
12:32
or something
12:33
<jhutchins_lt>
Hostname is setting correctly, but it doesn't appear to have picked up the login info.
12:33
<_SKiTZO>
this is probably not relevant to you
12:33
<alkisg>
jhutchins_lt: at least in Ubuntu, the clients wouldn't get their hostnames from the dhcp server. At some point (maybe after Lenny) the hostnames were changed to ltsp123, and I think now (=Karmic, maybe also in sid) they do get the hostname from the dhcp server.
12:33
<_SKiTZO>
ok
12:33
<jhutchins_lt>
(hostname configured in lts.conf)
12:34
Corrected the entry in dhcpd.config to include option host-name in the host-specific section, now the console shows the correct hostname.
12:36
Trying again with mac address instead of hostname in lts.conf
12:39
Perhaps LDM_USERNAME is only valid globally?
12:45_SKiTZO has quit IRC
12:48
<jhutchins_lt>
Well, now I've clearly broken auto-login again...
12:48alexqwesa has quit IRC
12:49
<alkisg>
All lts.conf settings are available per client...
12:50
<jhutchins_lt>
alkisg: Is there a version-specific list of lts.conf settings somewhere? 'cause I know some of the changed, including possibly autologin setup.
12:50
<johnny>
not really
12:50
<alkisg>
Nope
12:50
<johnny>
we only add
12:50
none have been removed
12:51alexqwesa has joined #ltsp
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12:52
<jhutchins_lt>
LOCALDEV vs. LOCAL_STORAGE?
12:52
<johnny>
things might have been aliased
12:52
but nothing has been removed
12:52
95% of all settings even from ltsp4 are still there
12:52
some were renamed, but the old behaviour still works
12:53
localdev is default on anyways..
12:54
<jhutchins_lt>
Well, I've got it set up according to http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/customizing-thin-client.html but no autologin.
12:54
<johnny>
jhutchins_lt, paste your lts.conf
12:54
<jhutchins_lt>
Actually, there, LDM_AUTOLOGIN=TRUE and it worked.
12:54
<johnny>
to the pastebin
12:54rjune has quit IRC
12:54
<johnny>
hehe
12:54
<jhutchins_lt>
johnny: But it was working before. Preferred pastebin?
12:55
<johnny>
!pastebot
12:55
<ltspbot>
johnny: "pastebot" :: The LTSP pastebot is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
12:55
<jhutchins_lt>
Now let's see if it'll work per-client...
12:59
http://ltsp.pastebin.com/m6d3c63c5
12:59
It's working for the one client. Now to see if I can boot the laptop.
13:00
<johnny>
should work..
13:01
<jhutchins_lt>
No glaring idiocy in the file?
13:01
<johnny>
except all the tabbing you got..
13:01
and this..
13:01
CONFIGURE_X_COMMAND=/etc/configure-x-xdebconfigurator
13:02
not sure why you're using that..
13:03
<jhutchins_lt>
Are tabs a problem?
13:04
<johnny>
it just looks ugly..
13:05
i'm not sure..
13:05
<jhutchins_lt>
It's pasted together from several sources.
13:07
Thanks for the help.
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14:42
<jhutchins_lt>
It seems like it would be possible to generate a list of lts.conf options and valid values automatically.
14:44
<alkisg>
?
14:48
<jhutchins_lt>
alkisg: I think I asked earlier if there was a master list.
14:48
<vagrantc>
!docs
14:48
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
14:48
<alkisg>
Yeah, and johnny answered no, right?
14:48
<vagrantc>
options come from ltsp, ldm, and ltspfs sources, so it's hard to auto-generate them.
14:49
<johnny>
yes.. there is a master list.. but it's manually maintained
14:49
or was..
14:49Sarten-X has joined #ltsp
14:50
<alkisg>
lts-parameters.txt has become `man lts.conf` recently...
14:51dro_ has quit IRC
14:53
<jhutchins_lt>
Not included in Debian lenny.
14:54alexqwesa has joined #ltsp
14:56
<sbalneav>
jhutchins_lt: What's not in included? If lts.conf.5 isn't there, then the lts-parameters.txt should be.
14:56
<Eghie>
wow, didn't know this: http://boot.kernel.org/
14:58
could be a nice option for LTSP-over-WAN
14:59
<sbalneav>
How so?
15:00
<johnny>
it's not ltsp anymore..
15:00
<Eghie>
a WAN prepared chroot on a public server
15:00
<johnny>
that's just network booting, it's not ltsp
15:00
<Eghie>
to connect to your ltsp server
15:00
<johnny>
ltsp means you do stuff on the server
15:00
no.. that runs everything locally
15:00
<sbalneav>
Eghie: and what's stopping you from doing that today?
15:00
<Eghie>
sbalneav: time ;)
15:01
<johnny>
it's not ltsp at all tho if you use that
15:01
<Eghie>
just thinking out loud actually
15:01
<sbalneav>
all you "need" for ltsp is the chroot + kernel.
15:01
and an ssh accessible machine somewhere.
15:02
<Eghie>
johnny: I mean a chroot/live environment which can connect via WAN to your LTSP server and use your local PC with local devices and stuff, Like you are in your LAN
15:02
<johnny>
then it's not ltsp at all..
15:02
even thouh you're connecting to your server that happens to be an ltsp server
15:02
<sbalneav>
Well it is
15:02
you're just unbearably slow :)
15:02
<johnny>
you wouldn't get a remote session with local devices with that
15:03
<Eghie>
no, I know
15:03
it is not even build
15:03
<johnny>
?
15:03
<Eghie>
at least, not that I know
15:03* sbalneav can never figure out what the attraction is to "ltsp over a wan"
15:03shawnp0wers has quit IRC
15:03
<Eghie>
I mean, it would work with current chroot environment
15:03
<johnny>
what would?
15:03
<Eghie>
but would be a nice addon of the project
15:03
<johnny>
it's called standard networking booting
15:04
not at all related to thin clients
15:04
except the fact that dsl is small..
15:04
<Eghie>
sbalneav: getting to use your environment when your outside of your LAN
15:05
<johnny>
then you boot a regular pc and login over X
15:05
or ssh + X
15:05
<sbalneav>
Eghie: You can do that *right now*
15:05
<Appiah>
what in your enviorment do you want to access?
15:05
<Eghie>
yeah, ssh + x can do, I know
15:05
<sbalneav>
ssh -X remote-host on wan "gnome-session"
15:05
<johnny>
that's all we do.. in ltsp
15:05
<sbalneav>
because at the end of the day, that's all LTSP's doing.
15:06
<johnny>
Eghie, btw.. we have someting called fat client support if you want a network booted environment, but not running stuff on the server
15:06
<Eghie>
but in the middle of the day you also transfer audio, local devices and stuff
15:06
johnny: I know about that yes
15:06
<sbalneav>
So, just do the same things we do.
15:06
<johnny>
that's exactly what that boot kernel thing is..
15:06
is the same as our fat client.. except not using dsl
15:06
<Eghie>
johnny: I know
15:07
<johnny>
so why is it a nice addition if we already have it? :)
15:07
sbalneav, well you coculd have ltspfs and ldm packages that run on a regular pc.. to tie it all together..
15:07hersonls has quit IRC
15:08
<sbalneav>
johnny: About the only thing you;d have to do to turn a "full machine" into a "thin" client would be to install ldm, and ltspfsd on the machine.
15:08
<johnny>
but of course.. the only reasonably fast way to do it is over NX.. and we don't work very well with that officially..
15:08
sbalneav, only thing would be something to run ldm in xephyr
15:09
<Eghie>
johnny: TFTP + DHCP is nice for LAN, but booting a full working "LTSP compatible" client over WAN, then setting up a custom DHCP is not that handy
15:09
<sbalneav>
maybe craft some kind of custom init.d startup script to start ldm instead of gdm.
15:09
<johnny>
sbalneav, not turn a regular pc into a thin client
15:09
but run it as an app
15:09
<sbalneav>
Eghie: How will you ever be able to "boot" a thin client over the wan?
15:09
<johnny>
just like xephyr.. but with local devices
15:09
sbalneav, gpxe + http ?
15:10
<sbalneav>
johnny: how'd that be any different from gpxe + tftp?
15:10
tftp = send you a file
15:10
http = send you a file
15:10pmatulis has quit IRC
15:11
<jhutchins_lt>
Any tips on getting a PS/2 mouse to work?
15:11
<johnny>
jhutchins_lt, it should just work..
15:11
<Appiah>
openvpn client a chroot , have it connect during startup before launching LDM
15:11
<jhutchins_lt>
johnny: Agreed. It doesn't.
15:11
<Appiah>
\o
15:11din_os has quit IRC
15:11
<johnny>
jhutchins_lt, blame your distro
15:11
lol
15:11
sbalneav, you can script what to do better with an http server than a tftp server
15:12
<jhutchins_lt>
johnny: Certainly. I've had problems with PS/2 mice in locally installed Ubuntu as well.
15:12
<johnny>
even dynamically generate an lts.conf
15:12
which you can't do with tftp
15:12
<sbalneav>
Buh?
15:12
<johnny>
altho not really related to wan..
15:12
<Eghie>
and HTTP is more firewall friendly
15:12
<sbalneav>
HUH?
15:12
<johnny>
http is open by default ?
15:13
unlike many others?
15:13
for most people that is
15:13
<sbalneav>
Oh man, I gotta stop idling in this channel.
15:13
<Eghie>
lol
15:13
<sbalneav>
facts are beginning to get miiiiiiiighty thin in here.
15:13
<johnny>
for some reason i thought that tftp was udp.. but it's probably not
15:14
but http would still be better .. it's just that very little hardware can boot http by default
15:14
Eghie, that's your real problem
15:14
and you'd still have to manually input the remote address.. as dhcp won't be able to discover it for you
15:14
if you're booting remotely
15:15
unless you flash your network device
15:15
<Eghie>
DNS?
15:15
<johnny>
sure.. but it can't auto discover that
15:15
where the file you need is
15:15
you'd have to burn it
15:16
better to do what i suggested.. and allow a regular pc to run an ltsp session by running ldm in a xephyr session
15:17Lns has joined #ltsp
15:17* Lns waves
15:18
<Eghie>
guess nx whould perform better on WAN though
15:18
<johnny>
of course
15:18
<Eghie>
and could be hacked into LTSP I guess
15:19
or just besides LTSP I actually mean
15:19
<Lns>
Is /etc/profile still a good place to put "global" login script-y type stuff for users?
15:20
<_USUrPeR_>
hey all
15:20
<johnny>
no /etc/profile.d ?
15:20
<Lns>
johnny: got that too
15:20
<johnny>
then sure..
15:20
<_USUrPeR_>
having problems getting ltsp w/8.04 working properly with screen_07 = rdesktop
15:20lucascoala has quit IRC
15:20
<johnny>
at least for now
15:20
<_USUrPeR_>
I have rdp_server pointed to the right place...
15:20
<Lns>
thx johnny
15:20
<johnny>
put it on SCREEN_08?
15:20
lol
15:21
<_USUrPeR_>
but it's bringing up a simple x desktop
15:21
:<
15:21
am I missing a step for the lts.conf? I'm not seeing any docs for this
15:23
no one? :(
15:23
<alkisg>
RDP_SERVER, RDP_OPTIONS
15:24
<jhutchins_lt>
Interesting, it's logging me in with LDM autologin, but I don't exist in the chroot...
15:24
<_USUrPeR_>
alkisg: got that. RDP server + options (-4 for win2k8r2 server)
15:25
<alkisg>
_USUrPeR_: wanna share all the relevant lines to pastebot?
15:25cpnogueira has quit IRC
15:26
<_USUrPeR_>
alkisg: wait. This runs as a localapp from the client doesnt it?
15:27
<alkisg>
Yes
15:27
<_USUrPeR_>
I think I just needed to talk this out
15:27
<alkisg>
So if it's on a different subnet etc you'll need dns, gateway etc
15:32
<_USUrPeR_>
ok, got it
15:32
<Lns>
hrm, putting a simple shell script in /etc/profile.d named "local.sh", executable, with a command to touch a file doesn't work upon user login.
15:33
does this need to be in the chroot?
15:39
<Eghie>
profile runs on the server
15:39
so, I guess not
15:39
<jhutchins_lt>
So GUI users don't need to be added to the chroot?
15:39
<Appiah>
"gui users" are users on the server
15:39
<Eghie>
what about /etc/xdg/autostart/?
15:40
/etc/xdg/autostart/ is using .desktop files and not actually shell files, but that shouldn't matter much
15:41
we use it to start a kind of "active desktop"
15:41
gecko gtk fullscreen on the background with a website on it
15:43
<Lns>
Eghie: ah, that's probably what i'm looking for =) thx! (looking at http://trac.64studio.com/64studio/ticket/107 sheds some light as well)
15:45
<alkisg>
Lns: users can customize those from System > Preferences > Startup programs
15:45
(i.e. disable some ones or put others)
15:46
<Lns>
alkisg: yeah - i'm just looking for a good way for all users to have a certain script launch whenever they log in that they can't edit..i'm assuming a user can't disable autostart .desktop files in /etc/xdg/autostart/
15:46
<alkisg>
Lns: they can
15:46
<Lns>
really??
15:46
<jhutchins_lt>
D'Oh, sorry.
15:46
<alkisg>
Yup, that's why I spoke :)
15:46
<Lns>
lame!
15:46
so you have a better solution? :)
15:46
<Eghie>
ok, good that i know ;)
15:47
<alkisg>
I don't know, profile, xsession...
15:47
<Lns>
profile doesn't work cuz you're not running bash, from what i read
15:47
xsession..
15:47
<alkisg>
Wasn't that fixed some years ago?
15:47
<Eghie>
what about /etc/X11/Xsession.d/?
15:47
<alkisg>
Lns: is that 8.04?
15:48* Lns nods
15:48
<alkisg>
Well, *upgrade* :D
15:48
Heh
15:48
<Lns>
no. =p
15:48* alkisg is going to stick to LTS releases from 10.04 and forward... :)
15:48
<Lns>
that's what everyone told me to do in the Feisty days. I'm done with upgrading to trade old bugs for new ones ;)
15:48
alkisg: yes. That's what I did starting with 8.04 =)
15:49
<alkisg>
Unfortunately 8.04 wasn't good enough for Greece
15:49
We didn't have Greek in ldm, in flash, in many places
15:49
I hope 10.04 will be a good starting point
15:49
<Lns>
i'm suffering because we don't have localapps...but when 10.04 is stable enough we're going to that and hopefully be on the at for a couple years =)
15:49
<jhutchins_lt>
If I update the /etc/modules file in the chroot, do I need to do ltsp-update-image?
15:49
<Lns>
jhutchins_lt: updating anything in the chroot requires an update
15:50
alkisg: heh..yeah, the good old days of libflashsupport ;)
15:50
<jhutchins_lt>
Lns: Well, updating lts.conf doesn't appear to.
15:50
<Lns>
jhutchins_lt: that file is outside of the chroot
15:50
<Eghie>
lts.conf is loaded from te server
15:50
<alkisg>
jhutchins_lt: erm, nfs or nbd?
15:50
debian or ubuntu?
15:51
<jhutchins_lt>
debian
15:51
<alkisg>
NFS or NBD?
15:51
By default, it uses NFS, so you don't need to run ltsp-update-image EVER
15:51
<jhutchins_lt>
alkisg: What's the quickest way to check?
15:51
<alkisg>
Well if you didn't change anything, it uses the defaults... so I'd guess nfs
15:51
See if nbd is in /etc/inetd.conf ?
15:52
Or check your /etc/exports...
15:52
<jhutchins_lt>
alkisg: Check it for which?
15:52
<Lns>
heh...i keep forgetting debian uses nfs still
15:53
<alkisg>
alkisg@alkis:~$ grep nbd /etc/inetd.conf
15:53
9572 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdswapd
15:53
2000 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdrootd /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
15:53
<jhutchins_lt>
nfsd appears to be running/
15:53
<alkisg>
Or you can see /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default, to see if it passes a boot=nfs
15:53
<jhutchins_lt>
nbdswapd, nbdrootd
15:54
boot = nfs
15:54
<alkisg>
There you go
15:54
So you don't ever need to run ltsp-update-image
15:55
<jhutchins_lt>
alkisg: Thank you.
15:55
<alkisg>
np
15:55pmatulis has joined #ltsp
15:59
<Eghie>
is ntop able to monitor nbd?
16:01* alkisg has used iftop and iptraf to monitor the bandwidth...
16:01
<Lns>
throwing a file in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ doesn't work either :(
16:02
i feel like i'm missing something easy here
16:02
<alkisg>
Lns, did you put a numbered prefix on it?
16:02
<Lns>
alkisg: yep...26
16:02
right after 25edubuntu-menus =)
16:03
wonder if my #!/bin/bash is screwing with it
16:04
<Eghie>
but iftop and iptraf will get the bandwidth not per protocol, or do they?
16:04
<alkisg>
Yeah, I don't know specifically for nbd..
16:04
<Lns>
ah, it was!
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16:05
<Lns>
since files in Xsession.d get sourced i guess using #!/bin/bash causes them to malfunction
16:05
<alkisg>
Lns: so you removed #!/bin/bash and it worked? Wow...
16:05
<Lns>
wierd..i saw that in a few of the scripts in there
16:05
yea
16:05
<Eghie>
maybe a difference in /bin/sh and /bin/bash?
16:06
<Lns>
would be weird, all i had the script do was touch a file
16:06
lessee
16:06
<alkisg>
Maybe because they're sourced (with sh running), they refuse to load bash scripts...
16:07
<Lns>
yes, it worked w/ #!/bin/sh
16:07
interesting!
16:07
now i wonder if that was the deal with profile.d
16:07
<alkisg>
So they must have a specific check for that
16:07
No, I think the profile.d problem was solved after hardy...
16:07
<Lns>
alkisg: what was the issue?
16:08
<alkisg>
Well, gnome? gdm? xsession? or something that was supposed to source profile, didn't
16:08
<Lns>
ah
16:08
yeah just tested w/profile.d..no work
16:09
<alkisg>
So they complained and they fixed it, I saw a bug in launchpad about that
16:09
<Lns>
cool
16:09
here's what i'm doing btw if anyone is interested
16:09
i'm implementing the whole shared desktop thing i have on the ubuntu ltsp wiki
16:10
<alkisg>
Ouch, none for me, thanks :)
16:10
<sbalneav>
sourced files shouldn't have the shebang at the beginning
16:10
<Lns>
and i'm going to automate part of the desktop linking by group membership...so say, if a user is a member of the "grade6" group, it automatically links the shared desktop for 6th graders to their profile..so user accounts are more portable through years and easier to administrate for those who don't know how to script
16:10mikkel has quit IRC
16:11
<sbalneav>
Lns: fyi, sabayon now can apply profiles by group membership
16:11
<alkisg>
Lns, and that's only for the Desktop? Why not for Documents as well?
16:11
<sbalneav>
I added that feature. Packages are in my ppa
16:12
<Lns>
sbalneav: is your sabayon ppa good for hardy?
16:13
<sbalneav>
no, I don't have a hardy build there.
16:13
<Lns>
sniff sniff...hehe
16:13
no worries
16:13
i'm looking forward to unleashing that tool when 10.04 hits
16:13
as well as the new thing i hear about...localapps...haha
16:13
<sbalneav>
Hmmm, one sec.
16:16
<Lns>
what's that really useful shell tool that returns info about a user like group membership, etc....i forget :(
16:16
(not 'groups')
16:16
<alkisg>
Lns: you do know about xdg-user-dirs-update and xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update, right?
16:17
Lns, `id` ?
16:17
<Lns>
alkisg: lol...no
16:17
alkisg: i don't think it was id but that works too
16:17
johnny had it in a script i looked at a while back
16:17
<alkisg>
Lns, how are you doing the desktop merging? With ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs ?
16:18
Or by symlinking?
16:18
<Lns>
alkisg: no...i'm doing that in the future but right now i'm using symlinking..i know it's not as efficient but that's how i had it set up the first time
16:18
<sbalneav>
Lns: I've adjusted the control file somewhat, I'm tryin a hardy build now.
16:18
<Lns>
sbalneav: wow cool =)
16:18
<alkisg>
Lns, so if a user logs on with another language, it won't work, right?
16:19
<Lns>
uhh..it wouldn't?
16:19
<alkisg>
E.g. if I logon to the PC with Greek, I'll have "Επιφάνεια εργασίας" instead of "Desktop", so any symlinks there would be useless
16:19
<Lns>
oh wow
16:19
heh..never thought of that :/
16:20
i'm going to put the xdg thing in my todo list for a long break (maybe winter break)..along with reorganizing /home to have things like /home/students and such...to make acl application easier
16:21
<alkisg>
There's a GROUP_HOMES variable in adduser.conf afaik
16:23alexqwesa has quit IRC
16:23CAN-o-SPAM_afk has quit IRC
16:24
<Lns>
alkisg: that's for primary groups right?
16:24
GROUPHOMES
16:24Sarten-X has quit IRC
16:25
<alkisg>
I don't remember, it's been a long time since I've used it
16:25
<Lns>
# If GROUPHOMES is "yes", then the home directories will be created as /home/groupname/user.
16:27
<sbalneav>
checking for intltool >= 0.40.0... 0.37.1 found
16:27
configure: error: Your intltool is too old. You need intltool 0.40.0 or later.
16:27
hmm
16:28Ahmuck_ has joined #ltsp
16:28
<Lns>
hmmm
16:28
such is the life of an LTS admin ;)
16:29
<alkisg>
You can put that on your ppa as well ;)
16:30
<sbalneav>
Wellllll, lets see what bad happens if I remove the dependency as well.
16:30
I mean, the dependency on a specific VERSION of intltool.
16:30
I really hate that sort of thing.
16:31
<Lns>
sbalneav: are you italian?
16:31
cuz it sounds like you're making spaghetti ;)
16:33Cris2 has quit IRC
16:34
<Lns>
ah, looks like GROUPHOMES is for primary group only
16:34
which makes sense
16:36alexqwesa has joined #ltsp
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16:59
<Eghie>
wow there are even more cool nbd implementations
17:02
didn't know that it could be used in such ways
17:05map7_ has joined #ltsp
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17:32
<Lns>
hrm, user-dirs.defaults paths are relative to a users' homedir...doesn't look like you can actually specify outside unless i'm missing something, which means only symlinking would work for shared desktop dirs
17:33
ah, that's just in /etc/xdg... ~/.config looks like it's a full path. which is a pita if you want to do global stuff :/
17:33
i always hate having to traverse all users' individual configs
17:33
i guess xdg-user-dirs-update is good for that thou
17:41Ahmuck has quit IRC
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17:47
<nubae__>
Lns, hi there
17:47Ahmuck__ has quit IRC
17:47
<Lns>
hey nubae__
17:47
long time!
17:47
<nubae__>
Lns, u seen google wave yet?
17:47
indeed
17:48
<Lns>
how've you been
17:48
<nubae__>
if u want to to see it in action and help fill in some data check front page of my blog www.nubae.com
17:48
if u need an invite let me know
17:48
I've been good
17:48
<Lns>
nah haven't seen google wave
17:49
<nubae__>
working on this and that, going back to my roots more... taking a sys admin job in Czek republic
17:49
working for asicion
17:49
apparently they are very big... 800+ linux engineers
17:49
<Lns>
don't have an acct..kinda busy right now otherwise i'd be all for it =)
17:49
wow!
17:49
nice
17:50
<nubae__>
give me an email, I'll send u an invitie
17:50
its worth seeing, the schools will love it
17:50
u can pretty much share with anyone or everyone any gadget created with google tech...
17:51
a million uses for schools, u'll get some definite awes showing it off
17:52Sarten-X has joined #ltsp
17:53
<Lns>
=) Sounds like the future!
17:54
<nubae__>
yeah, sadly kinda obsoletes telepathy a bit
17:54
although it must be web based
17:55
<Lns>
haha, well there's always going to be something for someone...i'm skeptical about giving google everything about me. I like hosting my own caldav server, etc.
17:55
<nubae__>
so telepathy has that going for it... no web reqiured... more specialised
17:55
but the masses... this is the killer app google will be famous for after gmail
17:56
yeah I hear yah
17:56Ahmuck_ has quit IRC
17:56
<nubae__>
they never really say if they are FOSS or not
17:56
they are kinda hiding in plaiin site
17:57
what I mean is... they are as bad as microsoft in that respect, but don't get even 100th the bashing....
17:57
<Lns>
exactly
17:57
distribution of power is the only thing that keeps balance.
17:59
<nubae__>
yeah google is kinda playing the eveyrthing game
17:59
noticed their official beta chrome for linux release today
17:59
<Lns>
yeah that's everywhere
17:59
less meh
17:59
<nubae__>
abd their 2 linux oses android and chrome os
18:00
so slowly, they are kinda sinking their teeth into it all
18:00
I wonder how long it takes the us gov. to catch one though
18:00
they've managed to keep this we aren't evil persona going for so long
18:01
<Lns>
heh i know...well they're in with them too, they're watching them
18:01
and using them
18:01
<nubae__>
I mean, if u keep insisting u aren't evil.... doesn't that ususally mean the opposite
18:02
<Lns>
no need to state it if you are it
18:02
of course this is business world...
18:02
marketing is everything
18:02
<nubae__>
yeah
18:04
<kusznir>
Hi all: got a quick ubnutu-ltsp question: I've noticed that on my thin clients, when I pull up users and groups manager, the "unlock" button is greyed out. I can log into the console of the system and add/manage users, just not on any remote session. Is there a way to change this behavior?
18:04
(my server is about to get installed in a rack in a server room; having to go down there to add users is a pain, and when I add them with the useradd command line, it seems like the account is only half created)
18:05
<Lns>
kusznir: i remember running into something similar
18:05
what version are you on?
18:05
<kusznir>
9.04
18:05
<Lns>
(also, try 'adduser', not 'useradd')
18:05stevesmith1983 has quit IRC
18:07
<kusznir>
Lns: Ok, thanks...Do you know of a way to remove the gui restrictions?
18:08
<Lns>
kusznir: i completely forget what the issue was with that. something wants me to say it had to do with dbus, but i can't be certain
18:08
might wanna try googling
18:08
and i'm on 8.04 so it might not be the same thing
18:09
<nubae__>
thats an apport thing
18:09
u have to be on the actual server
18:09
<jhutchins_lt>
So is there a way to make ldm/ltsp do a _default_ auto login, but allow that user to log out so someone else can log in?
18:09
<nubae__>
or from the server allow access via appport
18:10
<kusznir>
nubae__ Not familiar with appport...how do I allow access?
18:11Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp
18:12
<nubae__>
its the protection from accessing apps forall users
18:12
google it
18:13
I maybe confusing opensuse's version of the same thing, could be another name
18:17
<Lns>
i do remember it had something to do with it seeing you're not logged on locally to the machine, and how it "works" with some remote apps such as vnc or similar, but not others depending on how they actually connect to the server
18:31
wow..just discovered 'dmidecode'....very useful =)
18:33
<dmarkey_>
sbalneav: are you there
18:34
<johnny>
jhutchins_lt, use the login timeout thing
18:35
it's another lts.conf option
18:35
<dmarkey_>
johnny: wer you in the mozplugger conversation earlier
18:36
<johnny>
not really
18:36
i don't really agree with any approach that brings us away from gstreamer :)
18:37
<dmarkey_>
how would that be designed then
18:37
<johnny>
the same?
18:37
mozplugger works iwth anything
18:37
dmarkey_, altho google is starting to add html5 support to youtube
18:38
<dmarkey_>
so thats the codecs built into the browser
18:39
<johnny>
not really..
18:39
it uses gstreamer
18:39
or should be anyways..
18:39staffencasa has quit IRC
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18:51
<dmarkey_>
johnny: but how does that help with youtube as is
18:57vagrantc has quit IRC
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19:05
<jhutchins_lt>
Dang, I had a good list of lts.conf directives and I closed it.
19:07
This looks useful: http://ltsp.mirrors.tds.net/pub/ltsp/docs/ltsp-4.1-en.html#AEN1190
19:14
Arrgh! Can't find it defined anywhere.
19:22
Seriously, does anybody have a link to a list of lts.conf parameters?
19:23
<johnny>
it ain't in old 4.1 docs for sure..
19:23
jhutchins_lt, run this command
19:23
locate lts-parameters.txt.gz
19:23
or just locate lts-parameters
19:25
<jhutchins_lt>
For some reason it didn't find it the first time. Typo on my part no doubt.
19:25
johnny: pattern "time" not found in file.
19:26
johnny: I know I saw it in an earlier doc, but I can't find that doc again.
19:27
<johnny>
time?
19:27
open it up
19:27
it's in gz format.. so you have to unzip it first or use zcat
19:27
or use less
19:27
zcat | grep -i time
19:27
<jhutchins_lt>
Yes, guzipped, used less, search time and TIME
19:28
<johnny>
perhaps your version is too old to have it..
19:28
<jhutchins_lt>
5.1.10-2
19:29
grep -i time /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/lts-parameters.txt - no return
19:29
Sigh. Try again tomorrow.
19:29
<johnny>
i don't recall which ubuntu version goes with wich ltsp version
19:31
jhutchins_lt, if you want, you can check out ldm from bzr and grep that
19:31
i don't feel like doing it right now.. i have working with bzr
19:31
somebody else has a checkout tho..
19:31
here
19:31
sbalneav, i know you have a checkout..
19:32
the AUTOLOGIN stuff doesn't seem to be in !docs
19:32
in the lts.conf section
19:32
<jhutchins_lt>
johnny: I know I saw the parameter in some guide I had online earlier, but I haven't found it agian.
19:35
<johnny>
they should all be at the docs site..
19:35
but i don't think they are anymore.. got lost in the transistion
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21:08
<sbalneav>
jhutchins_lt: !docs
21:08
!docs
21:08
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
21:10
<sbalneav>
jhutchins_lt: docs for LDM_AUTOLOGIN, LDM_USERNAME and LDM_PASSWORD are in the docs
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21:41
<johnny>
sbalneav, but what about the TIMEOUT ?
21:41
that's the one that's missing
21:41
LDM_AUTOLOGIN_TIMEOUT maybe?
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