IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 4 January 2012   (all times are UTC)

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11:14
<muppis>
lastlog http://
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12:06
<sndwrx>
alkisg, Gadi: That sounds similar to what I'll be configuring over the next couple days--Thin clients boot straight into VM instances. Except, unfortunately, I'll need 13 separate VMs.
12:07
alkisg, Gadi: Have any initial recommendations for me? What kind of abuse is the server going to be under with something like that?
12:07
<alkisg>
Hi sndwrx
12:07
Why are you going to need 13 vms?
12:08
Server abuse? The server just needs a good disk + gigabit NIC, it won't be stressed at all..
12:09
<sndwrx>
Mornin' alkisg.
12:10
I'll need 13 different VM images, because of their individual functions.
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12:10
<alkisg>
Ah, ok, if you really need 13 different installations then sure
12:10
<sndwrx>
I'm replacing the monstrousities that currently provide public access terminals in a library...
12:10
<alkisg>
If you just need a bit of different configuration, you can do that with vbox snapshots
12:11
What are you going to use? Vbox or KVM?
12:11
<sndwrx>
And unfortunately, due to the time management software that's presently in use (it's crummy software, but it has features that other options don't) it needs to believe that it's running on separate individual machines.
12:12
<alkisg>
I don't get it. The LTSP clients *are* individual machines...
12:12
Unless you mean differnet hostname? You can configure that with some windows startup script...
12:12
<sndwrx>
Different MAC, IP and hostname for each.
12:12
<alkisg>
Yeah you can have that with the same VM
12:13
They get a different MAC and IP by default, and you just need the hostname part
12:13
<sndwrx>
And it's likely that I'm overcomplicating how it's going to work with LTSP since I really have very little LTSP experience.
12:13
<alkisg>
Better describe your setup in more detail then
12:13
<sndwrx>
Is it possible for me to specify the MAC that is assigned?
12:13
<alkisg>
You're talking about a hypothetical script that's not implemented yet
12:13
<sndwrx>
ok.
12:13
<alkisg>
In that future script, yes, you'll be able to use vboxmanage to specify the mac
12:14
<sndwrx>
I'll attempt to explain in more detail as quickly and simply as possible--I have to leave for work in a few minutes, but I'll be back on here at about 9AM EST.
12:14
So basically I'll be back in about two hours.
12:16
Alright, the public kiosks are running Dell Optiplex 745 machines with Windows XP and a suite called PCCop to manage time sessions and print functions. I want to replace those machines with the WYSE V10 thin clients that I have available (primarily for ease of administration once the migration is complete, as well as power consumption).
12:18
Now, PCCop appears to have been created in pieces as needs arised, so its structure seems somewhat convoluted to me, and I still haven't put all the pieces together for configuring it:
12:19
<alkisg>
So, a windows server with rdesktop etc won't do for you, and neither will wine, correct?
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12:20
<sndwrx>
Each machine requires a specific MAC (could probably be any MAC if I could find that portion of the configuration), individual IP as well as hostname. For the user time management, it references a MSSQL database. For print managment, it communicates with and is managed by the machine and software on the kiosk which is solely used (by the public at least) to reserve a machine if they are all in use.
12:21
alkisg: I don't believe Wine will work. I'm not sure of rdesktop.
12:21
<alkisg>
rdesktop == all the users would be working in a windows 2008 server, same ip, mac and hostname for everyone
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12:21
<sndwrx>
Okay, then that won't work.
12:22
<alkisg>
How much RAM will your WYSE terminals have?
12:22
<sndwrx>
Unless the server were running all the VM instances and I assigned each thin client to automatically log into their specific instance.
12:22
800MHz Via processor, 128MB flash, 256MB RAM.
12:23
<alkisg>
That's not enough to run linux, virtualbox, and a windows vm
12:23
You'd need about 1 Gb RAM
12:23
<sndwrx>
That's what I thought.
12:23
<alkisg>
So you forget that solution that me and Gadi were talking about, and you go on with different VMs hosted on a single server
12:23
<sndwrx>
Is there no way for the server to do the majority of the muscle work?
12:23
<alkisg>
Or, you try pccop with wine
12:24
So, you'd create a single VM
12:24
And have a script to boot it 13 times with differnet ip/mac/hostname
12:24
And then use a stock ltsp installation,
12:24
and put SCREEN_07=rdesktop <VM-instance>
12:25
That way your thin clients would be rdesktop clients to different VMs
12:25
The downside is that you'll need some time to implement the initial script :)
12:25
<sndwrx>
And the server has the VMs running and ready for the rdesktop sessions.
12:25
<alkisg>
Yes
12:25
How much RAM does your server have?
12:25
<sndwrx>
That way the thin clients are only running linux into rdesktop, and the server is doing all the heavy lifting.
12:25
<alkisg>
Right
12:26
<sndwrx>
haaa... At this point, not much. I was going to test with just a couple clients, then go from there.
12:26
Probably 4GB to start with. I'll purchase additional equipment thought which I'm sure will be necessary.
12:26
<alkisg>
Well if e.g. you need 512 MB RAM for each XP VM, add 256 more for the virtualbox and all...
12:26
So 13 * 768
12:27
<sndwrx>
I don't know if the machines I want to use will support up to 8GB RAM or only 4GB.
12:28
phew.
12:28
So not even 8GB will be enough.
12:29
Possible to run three servers? One that hosts the LTSP environment, one with 7VMs and the third with 6 VMs?
12:30
I'll be repurposing the current kiosk machines as servers, to save money on the library's budget--3.4GHz dual core Pentium D with however much RAM I need to get them running happily.
12:33
Also, I'm not entirely certain yet how PCCop communicates with its various components. As I said, it's somewhat convoluted and I'm sure there are additional config files on the individual machines that will need to be recreated. So, while I really like the idea of one VM image that boots with the scripted/specified MAC/IP/hostname... I'm unsure if it will work until I have a chance to really dig my hands in
12:33
today.
12:34
I was initially beginning with going p2v images from the current machines and virtualizing them. I know it sounds kludgy, but I couldn't think of another option.
12:39
I have to get to the library.
12:39
I'll be bak here in about an hour and a half.
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12:45
<alkisg>
(02:29:14 μμ) sndwrx: Possible to run three servers? One that hosts the LTSP environment, one with 7VMs and the third with 6 VMs? ==> sure
12:45
(02:30:03 μμ) sndwrx: I'll be repurposing the current kiosk machines as servers, to save money on the library's budget--3.4GHz dual core Pentium D with however much RAM I need to get them running happily.
12:45
==> is sounds simpler to me to use them as thin clients instead. Those have enough RAM to run a VM locally.
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17:20
<sndwrx>
alkisg: Good suggestion, and while I understand that would be the easiest way to accomplish it, that defeats the intent of energy savings. Also, I don't have any other equipment available to use as a server if those aren't taken out of commission as client machines.
17:26
<alkisg>
sndwrx: what are the exact specs for those desktop PCs? Are you sure they're beefy enough to run 5 Windows XP VMs?
17:26
I think not, so you'd need to use e.g. 7 of them as servers, and to have 13 thin clients, and that would require much more power than your current solution...
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19:15
<rwmarch_>
I have a Dell Optiplex 100 client with 64Mb of RAM. This client runs OK in an LTSP4.2 environment. In an LTSP5 environment, should I anticipate a greater RAM requirement?
19:16
<_UsUrPeR_>
mgariepy: ping
19:17
<mgariepy>
pong
19:17
<rwmarch_>
In an LTSP5 environment can I expect graphic performance to slow? Or are the RAM requirements the same for both?
19:18
<mgariepy>
_UsUrPeR_, ?
19:18
<_UsUrPeR_>
just saw you pop up in dri-devel. I just today got a response pertaining to LVDS disable as well :)
19:18
It took them a week to respond (just this morning) to my patch
19:18
it has been "reviewed"
19:19
<mgariepy>
_UsUrPeR_, great :D
19:19
<_UsUrPeR_>
mgariepy: however, the response was "reviewed by"
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19:19
<_UsUrPeR_>
so I am not sure what that means quite yet
19:19
<knipwim>
rwmarch_: i can watch video on my optiplex gx110 with 128Mb ram
19:20
<rwmarch_>
My question relates to a cllient with half that amount of RAM.
19:21
I know the answer in LTSP 4.2. But how aabout LTSP 5??
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19:34
<fossala>
I have 512mb and it is using 102mb atm. Don't know if that helps.
19:36
<rwmarch_>
fossala: Is the in LTSP5?
19:36
<fossala>
Yes.
19:36
But remeber that linux scales.
19:37
<rwmarch_>
Right.
19:37
<fossala>
Acctully my sons has 256mb I can boot that up tomorrow morning (he is asleep) and report ram usage on that one.
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19:38
<rwmarch_>
OK.
19:40
_UsUrPeR_: Thank you for the 1720 script. It appears to have fixed the Ubuntu 10.10 case. In a few days I will be able to test on Ubuntu 10.04.
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19:52
<_UsUrPeR_>
rwmarch_: awesome. No problem.
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20:27
<alkisg>
rwmarch: we have many labs with 64MB RAM and Ubuntu 10.04. Some configuration changes are needed to make them work with such low RAM. After that they work OK, except for cases where x memory is needed (e.g. firefox/openoffice with large images)
20:28
chromium-browser behaves better with 64mb ram clients
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20:33
<hfranco>
anyone not recommend a ltsp server install on centos 5?
20:33
should i stick to fedora or ubuntu?
20:36
<alkisg>
hfranco: see the channel topic for which distros have good ltsp support
20:41
<rwmarch_>
Any other comments??
20:41
alkisg: Thanks for the info. I have a couple of these 64mb clients running on LTSP4.2 without problems 99% of the time. Occasional failure when running Firefox. OpenOffice has been OK with small files. Tried one of these under LTSP5. Boot up speed under LTSP5 is OK until X starts to load. Then very slow suggesting that LTSP5 requires more RAM available to function at the same speed.
20:41
Any other comments??
20:41
<alkisg>
No other comments, you just need the configuration changes to free up some RAM
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20:42
<alkisg>
Which distro are you using?
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20:42
<rwmarch_>
Can you describe the config changes for me?
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20:45
<alkisg>
Not without you saying your distro/version, I can't.
20:46
<rwmarch_>
alkisg: Ubuntu 10.04.3 LTS
20:47
<alkisg>
rwmarch_ : you need to download a new version of ltsp_nbd that allows you to disable nbd-proxy,
20:48
!nbd-proxy
20:48
<ltsp`>
alkisg: nbd-proxy: Ubuntu 10.04 and 10.10 use a wrapper called nbd-proxy, which is causing networking problems for some people. See https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/589034. It's been disabled by default in 11.04, see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/1803
20:48
<alkisg>
And then to pass nbd_proxy=false and nocompcache in pxelinux.cfg/default, to free up some RAM,
20:48
and then to enable NBD_SWAP in your lts.conf
20:49* alkisg is using 512 MB NBD_SWAP for all clients...
20:50
<rwmarch_>
alkisg: Thank you. I will check that out. I do have NBD_SWAP in lts.conf and have noticed an error about SWAP flashing by.
20:51
<alkisg>
!localxterm
20:51
<ltsp`>
alkisg: localxterm: Any applications that you launch on a thin client actually run on the server. However, if in a client you run 'ltsp-localapps xterm', a local xterm will open, and any commands that you enter there will be executed locally on the client.
20:51
<alkisg>
You can run `free` in a localxterm to see if swap is enabled
20:52
<rwmarch_>
Yes, I understand. And I will use 'free'.
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22:46
<rwmarch_>
Testing LTSP5 on Ubuntu 10.04, I find that login at the thin client fails and returned to LDM if the host's Internet connection goes down. Is this to be expected?
22:47
This is a two NIC setup.
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