IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 29 September 2015   (all times are UTC)

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08:11
<alkisg>
!arcfour
08:11
<ltsp>
arcfour: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC4 is an SSH cipher which is more than 2 times faster than the default aes128-ctr. To enable it, set LDM_SSHOPTIONS="-o Ciphers=arcfour128".
08:12
<alkisg>
!forget arcfour
08:12
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
08:12
<alkisg>
!learn arcfour as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC4 is an SSH cipher which is more than 2 times faster than the default aes128-ctr. To enable it, set LDM_SSHOPTIONS="-o Ciphers=arcfour128,chacha20-poly1305@openssh.com,aes128-ctr".
08:12
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
08:12
<alkisg>
!arcfour
08:12
<ltsp>
arcfour: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC4 is an SSH cipher which is more than 2 times faster than the default aes128-ctr. To enable it, set LDM_SSHOPTIONS="-o Ciphers=arcfour128,chacha20-poly1305@openssh.com,aes128-ctr".
08:13* alkisg is testing chacha in pentium 3's...
08:15
<maldridge>
do you have those in production, or is this more academic?
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08:16
<alkisg>
Yup, thousands of them
08:16
<maldridge>
wow, that's quite the inventory
08:16
are they decently fast?
08:16
<alkisg>
Real life... :)
08:17
Well, thin clients depend on the server CPU...
08:17
If a schools gets an i7 server, then the students can watch youtube in p3's
08:17
<maldridge>
well yeah, but they still have to have decent network and local graphics
08:17
<alkisg>
100mbps network for them, gigabit for the server
08:19
With 128 ram, they prefer ubuntu/ltsp over windows 2000
08:19
With 256 ram, they prefer ubuntu/ltsp over windows xp
08:19
With < 128 RAM unfortunately they cannot run ubuntu/ltsp any longer
08:19
<maldridge>
huh, that's really impressive
08:20
<alkisg>
So we're advising them to throw away anything with SIMMs, and upgrade anything with SDRAM to >=128 and make it a thin clien,t
08:20
and upgrade anything with >= DDR-1 to 1 GB RAM and make it a fat client
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08:56
<alkisg>
Test method: LTSP client root file system: cd /tmp; truncate -s 512M file #create a sparse file
08:56
time scp -o Ciphers=aes128-ctr /tmp/file alkisg@server:/dev/null
08:56
real 1m43.958s
08:59
(network at 100 mbps, cpu always at 100% due to ssh+scp usage)
08:59
time scp -o Ciphers=arcfour /tmp/file alkisg@server:/dev/null
08:59
real 1m18.212s
09:01
<maldridge>
wow, that's quite impressive
09:02
<alkisg>
time scp -o Ciphers=chacha20-poly1305@openssh.com /tmp/file alkisg@server:/dev/null
09:02
real 1m36.121s
09:02
So, aes128=5.0MB/s, arcfour=6.7MB/s, chacha20-poly1305@openssh.com=5.5MB/s
09:03
Let me see about the opposite, decoding on a slow client...
09:04* highvoltage has his LAN on home configured to always use arcfour in .ssh/config (makes a huge difference in performance, at least I know no one else is in my switches)
09:05
<alkisg>
Testing decoding - this time only 100M sparse file: time scp -o Ciphers=chacha20-poly1305@openssh.com alkisg@server:/run/sparse /dev/null
09:05
real 0m22.472s
09:06
5,0 MB/s
09:06
time scp -o Ciphers=arcfour alkisg@server:/run/sparse /dev/null
09:06
real 0m18.708s, 5.9MB/s
09:06
time scp -o Ciphers=aes128-ctr alkisg@server:/run/sparse /dev/null
09:07
real 0m23.814s, 4.6MB/s
09:07
So arcfour is a big winner there as well
09:08
The good side is that normal ltsp users that don't set LDM_SSHOPTIONS will actually see better results in 16.04 with chacha being the default now
09:08
<highvoltage>
yeah it's really easily breakable encryption but it's certainly better than everything going over the network in the clear
09:09* alkisg wonders why is so much CPU necessary for encryption...
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09:27
<maldridge>
alkisg: most encryption derives entropy from the interrupt routines
09:27
<alkisg>
I'm guessing that's true only for the initial setup
09:28
If I want to scp 10 TB and I leave my PC while doing so, I'm not expecting scp to wait and ask for more entropy...
09:28
After the initial handshake, the peers can have a common encryption array of e.g. 10k size
09:29
So I'm wondering why they can't use that with a simpler, XOR+count+stuff like that, technique...
09:30
(the best encryption is when the peers have a common array of size=the size of data to be transmitted, that's completely unbreakable even with simple xor)
09:32
<vmlintu>
alkisg: if you have something stuck waiting for entropy, rng-tools is your friend
09:33
<alkisg>
vmlintu: nah, I'm just wondering why SSH, SSHFS etc _have_ to be so damn slow, requiring so much CPU
09:37
<vmlintu>
Long time ago on thin clients with some VIA CPU we used its built-in AES chipset that was really fast. You really couldn't notice the difference between unencrypted X and X over ipsec..
09:41
Back then using ipsec was much faster than anything ssh could do. I wonder if it's still so..
09:59
<alkisg>
Unfortunately the ssh devs won't want to include the NULL cipher, so even if we use ipsec, ssh will need its CPU again...
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15:54
<Guest48648>
Hello, I have a question about client image size. I've done 4 updates to the system and the image is now seems to be 14506Mb. How do I reduce it?
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16:54
<john_s>
just installed Edubuntu based on Ubuntu LTS 14.04, I need to run chromium-browser as a local app, which works but it runs like a dog on our TC's with Atom processors. Does any one know if there is a way to run chromium-browser in a "lightweight
16:54
mode
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