IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 22 March 2012   (all times are UTC)

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04:33
<vagrantc>
meh. looks like epoptes's build dependencies don't install from sid at the moment ...
04:33
<dberkholz>
vagrantc: gonna hit up oscon this year?
04:34
<vagrantc>
dberkholz: i think it conflicts with the debian conference
04:34
it frequuently does...
04:35
<dberkholz>
not quite
04:35
right afterwards though
04:35
debconf is 8-14 july, oscon is 16-20
04:35
<vagrantc>
you know your dates!
04:35
<dberkholz>
i know my google
04:35
<vagrantc>
i will be living the hard life in nicaragua for a week after debconf, too
04:36
<dberkholz>
darn
04:36
i won't make it to osbridge, got 2 other confs down in the bay
04:37
any other cool confs happen in pdx that would give me an excuse to go?
04:38
<vagrantc>
i usually don't know about them until they are already happening or have already happened ... not too much of a conference buff
04:38
<dberkholz>
i mostly go to chill w/ people. call it hallway track or bar track, whatever.
04:38
being in minnesota is a little isolating from a tech perspective
04:39
<vagrantc>
ah, i didn't know you fled cascadia
04:39
<dberkholz>
a few years back, actually — late 2009
04:39
but i'm feeling nostalgic
04:40
<vagrantc>
oh, you mean you left like, a couple weeks ago? :)
04:43
i've never quite mustered together another LTSP hackfest in portland ... but i always dream of hosting another
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04:45
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i was just getting ready to try to upload epoptes, and apparently the build-deps are unsatisfyable in sid now (just did a build a little while ago and it went swimmingly)
04:45* vagrantc sighs
04:45
<alkisg>
Hi vagrantc... error log?
04:45
Ah, it's a temporary thing?
04:46
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it's not epoptes's fault, it's some package in sid that got partially updated
04:47
probably and arch:all package where a necessary arch:i386 versioned dep isn't yet available.
04:47
<alkisg>
vagrantc: no worries, thanks... I'll upload to Ubuntu and you can sync later on with a minor release that contains the new translations
04:48
<vagrantc>
alkisg: my test build went fine... seems to have corrected all the glitches i encountered on monday! :)
04:48
<alkisg>
There were even 3 new translations added last night, thanks to stgraber forwarding the notification mail to the translations teams
04:48
Yup, we only have 2 known bugs open left, which aren't really significant
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04:55
<vagrantc>
alkisg: be sure to fix up the changelog for an ubuntu upload, then
04:56
<alkisg>
Sure, I'll put precise + the new translations in the changelog
04:58
<vagrantc>
there seemed to also be one fix that i wasn't sure if the changelog already covered it
05:00
<alkisg>
Which one? Maybe I overlooked something...
05:04
<vagrantc>
alkisg: 262: Fix get-display regression for KDE.
05:05
it happened after the last edit to the changelog, but i didn't know if it was just a fix to something already covered in the changelog
05:05
<alkisg>
vagrantc: when we break something after the previously released version, and in a latter commit we fix it again, should we cover that on the changelog?
05:06
Do users need to be aware that we broke it temporarily in trunk?
05:07
<vagrantc>
alkisg: that was basically what i was wondering
05:07
alkisg: i would generally say no, if it was only on -trunk and not a released version
05:07
<alkisg>
I had the same doubt about the "lock screen fails to unlock" problem you reported, if we should include it or not
05:08
It was just a temporary thing with the new implementation, we didn't have enough time to test it...
05:08
<vagrantc>
alkisg: if there's a bug referenced, it should probably be included...
05:08
but otherwise, i wouldn't bother.
05:08
<alkisg>
Right... so I guess the changelog is OK as it is
05:12
<vagrantc>
alkisg: and this is a matter of personal taste, but i usually prefer to use UNRELEASED in the changelog, and only change it to unstable when it gets actually released.
05:13
makes it easier to know what to tag that way, too :)
05:13
<alkisg>
vagrantc: until now, I only updated the changelog when a release was about to occur... but you're right, I'll be using UNRELEASED from now on
05:16* alkisg thinks epoptes is pretty much OK for now, so will shift his focus to ltsp code again... :)
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05:24
<vagrantc>
well, i'll turn in for the night...
05:25
<alkisg>
Goodnight vagrantc, thanks again
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09:22
<Deaconf19>
hello all
09:22
Anyone in here up for some Q&A?
09:22
<muppis>
Everyone.
09:22
Just ask. :)
09:23
<Deaconf19>
Cool thanks
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09:24
<Deaconf19>
This is my setup. ESX cluster 3 servers. 192 GB RAM total and 18 logical processors per server. I gave LTSP 8GB RAM and 4 CPU. Is this over kill for 300 clients that will RDP into a windows 7 x64 Virtual Machine ?
09:24
the backbone is 1 Gbps
09:24
LAN
09:25
The idea was to minimize the physical foot print in our facility. So we create Windows 7 VMs and have the users PXE the rdesktop into the windows 7 machine is this normal or ludacris
09:26
<muppis>
Depends is your RDP connections made from clients or from server.
09:26
<Deaconf19>
Not sure honestly. I sent the lts.conf file with SCREEN_3 to LDM and SCREEN_4 to rdesktop if that helps
09:27
*set
09:28
<muppis>
Then they are from clients and serverside is littlebit overkill.
09:28
<Deaconf19>
Ok
09:29
Do you happen to know where I could go for rdesktop help?
09:29
and thanks for the answers muppis
09:29
<muppis>
1 or 2 GB of RAM and 1 CPU can be enough to start.
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09:30
<Deaconf19>
Wow, that is great to know
09:31
<alkisg>
What are your client specs?
09:31
<Deaconf19>
right now they are old Dell D610 laptops
09:32
2GB ram onbord intel graphics
09:32
<alkisg>
And, are you planning on having 300 windows 7 VMs, with no server edition?
09:32
2 GB RAM is more than enough to run windows 7 locally
09:32
<Deaconf19>
Yeah we know, however there is a bit more to it than I can say
09:33
<alkisg>
I'm just mentioning that in case you want to run the same instance of the VM locally on the clients, over ltsp
09:34
RDP needs a lot of bandwidth, so your network will be a bottleneck for 300 clients
09:34
<Deaconf19>
Not sure I understand, how would I achieve that
09:34
Yeah we noticed that 2 clients started to tax the VM
09:34
*connections
09:35
<alkisg>
You have a thin chroot, install qemu or vbox in it, make a "windows-vm" vbox screen script, and when the clients boot they all get their copy-on-write (like deep freeze) copy of the same vm
09:35
It needs a bit of scripting, but I think it'll be worth it
09:36
<Deaconf19>
Wow thanks I was unaware of this.
09:37
Could I run vmware view in the chroot?
09:37
<alkisg>
If it can be installed in linux, it can be installed in a chroot too
09:39
<Deaconf19>
so to make sure I get this. I install for this example vmware view in chroot. when the user PXE it will get the boot image then vmware kicks in and directs it to the running VM?
09:39
<alkisg>
I don't know what vmware view does
09:40
<Deaconf19>
Sorry NVM
09:40
<alkisg>
So I can only answer in general, whatever you can do in a normal linux installation, you can do it from a chroot too
09:41
<Deaconf19>
Thanks I think you guided me in better solution than we originally came up with.
09:41
<alkisg>
You're welcome
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13:07
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, you have a moment? :-)
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13:14
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: a moment, shoot :)
13:16
<Hyperbyte>
uh
13:16
My mouse has stopped working
13:16
But that's not what this is about at all
13:16
It's just annoying
13:16
Either way
13:17
Is there anything known about using Android devices diskdrives with LTSP localapps?
13:17
My Android phone won't show up on the desktop, while USB sticks with the same filesystem do show up.
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13:18
<alkisg>
Heh, nope, you'll want to speak to someone else, I'm not using localapps so I haven't dug into the ltspfs code
13:18
<Hyperbyte>
I thought it might have something to do with the delay with which Android presents it's filesystem, since you first connect it, and then have to put it in "Diskdrive" mode which always takes a few seconds...
13:18
<alkisg>
*nor localdevs
13:18
<Hyperbyte>
Ah...
13:19* alkisg prefers either true thin clients or true fats, the other stuff is too complicated to be managed by teachers...
13:20
<Hyperbyte>
Well sure, but people still want to use USB sticks with true fat clients. ;-)
13:21
<alkisg>
Of course, but ltspfs is not involved
13:21
So nothing ltsp-related there, just normal udisks-based mounting
13:22
Anything that works on regular machines works on fat clients too, so I guess your phone too
13:22
<Hyperbyte>
Yeah, the phone works on the thin client, it just doesn't get put on the desktop
13:23
<alkisg>
That's ltspfs + gnome integration, i.e. ltsp related, but not the part I'm familiar with
13:23
As that doesn't apply to fat clients
13:24
Also I think that using the usb over ip project might be better for thin clients, no ltspfs or DE integration would be needed in that case
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13:25
<alkisg>
bbl
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13:28
<Hyperbyte>
Hey Jim!
13:39
<jammcq>
Hyperbyte: hey !!!
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13:39
<jammcq>
how's things going?
13:40
<Hyperbyte>
Good actually... my new colleague starts the 2nd of april, at that point I will finally have some form of peace again in my job. :P
13:40
<jammcq>
cool
13:40
how's the new office?
13:41
<Hyperbyte>
Right now I'm going a bit crazy, running from one fire to the next, not having enough time to help everyone as well as I'd like, and then having a boss complain that I don't help people here well enough. :P
13:42
Oh, the new office is fantastic.
13:44
Having a proper room server, opposed to the converted broom closet I had before, really makes a lot of difference in the stability of things, and the ease with which certain problems can be solved. :-)
13:44
*room server -> server room
13:44
<jammcq>
:)
13:45
yeah, the problem with broom closets is they're never properly cooled
13:45
<Hyperbyte>
So I don't have anything to complain about, except the new workload that came with all this, but that'll be fixed in 11 days.
13:45
Not that I'm counting or anything. :P
13:46
Well, that, yeah... and once the company expands, and you have two switches, two modems, and five servers in one broom closet, it's not only getting 45 degrees room temperature in summer, but there's also hardly any space left... and the moment you need to patch something, or get one server out for maintenance, you're screwed.
13:48
How about you? =)
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14:01
<jammcq>
Hyperbyte: yep, pretty busy here. just trying to keep the customers happy
14:02
<Hyperbyte>
And are you succeeding? ;-)
14:06
<jammcq>
well... yesterday we celebrated our 5th year in business. so... just the fact that we're surviving says something I think.
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14:15
<Hyperbyte>
jammcq, congrats!
14:16
I will drink a cup of hot chocolate in honor of your success.
14:17
<jammcq>
thanks
14:17
<Hyperbyte>
I might even sacrifice some birds later.
14:17
This morning I nearly killed a group of 'em, sitting on the bike path.
14:18
<dead_inside>
i love this channel
14:18
<Hyperbyte>
Electric scooters are absolutely awesome, but animals really don't hear you coming. :(
14:18
dead_inside, you do? :o
14:18
<dead_inside>
indeed\
14:18
<Hyperbyte>
:P
14:19
Well, it's a secret I was saving for your birthday, but I guess this is as good a time as any: this channel loves you, too!
14:20
<dead_inside>
yay
14:20
<elias_a>
Hyperbyte: Neither do old grannies :O
14:22
<Hyperbyte>
elias_a, no, but those are just -asking- for it sometimes
14:22
Well not literally. Although sometimes even literally I bet.
14:23
<elias_a>
Hyperbyte: Yep - know what you mean.
14:24
Hyperbyte: You are the dutch chap, right? Do I remember correctly?
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14:25
<Hyperbyte>
elias_a, you must be British. :-)
14:25
<elias_a>
Hyperbyte: No, actually not :)
14:25
<Hyperbyte>
Then you don't have the right to use the word "chap", sorry.
14:25
But yes, I'm Dutch. :)
14:25
<elias_a>
I'm just using the word chap for laughs :)
14:27
<Hyperbyte>
;-)
14:27
Have I ever showed you my electric beast, elias_a?
14:30
<elias_a>
Hyperbyte: What would be the amount of bad reputation if one would drive one of these on bike roads in Netherlands.... ooops... http://www.cyclone-tw.com/ is down :(
14:31
Anyway, they have models with 2 x 3kW electric motors, top speed around 120 km/h.
14:31
Hyperbyte: Show me yours, I'll show you mine :P
14:31
<Hyperbyte>
Anything above 45km/h is not allowed on bike path, anything above 25km/h is not allowed on bike-exclusive paths
14:32
<elias_a>
Hyperbyte: I know :D
14:32
<Hyperbyte>
elias_a, http://www.kreidler.net/wp_kreidler_mot/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/3000_Galactica-2_0-Electro-Diagonal-links.jpg
14:35
<elias_a>
Hyperbyte: I drive one of these retro thingies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_C5
14:35
<jammcq>
wow
14:35
<elias_a>
I see only smiling faces when driving that :)
14:36
It is probably the oddest thing I have ever played with, including LTSP :P
14:36
<ogra_>
LTSP isnt odd ! only the people writing and using it are !
14:37
<knipwim>
agreed :)
14:38
<elias_a>
ogra_: Ok. I stand corrected :P
14:48
<stgraber>
I'm planning on tagging 5.3.6 in around 2 hours so if you have any bugfixes around you want in, please push them now :)
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14:49
<Hyperbyte>
I'd prefer a two wheeler, elias_a!
14:49
<stgraber>
I'd have liked the ldm fix too but it's really not worth tagging for a single commit so I'll wait post-beta2 and see if we have something else in there that I can upload
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15:30
<elias_a>
Ok, folks. I will now try to make you smile even if you cannot see me nor my ridiculous retro pedelec...
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15:37
<elias_a>
I have been talking about the webinar (web seminar) where the subject would be what alkisg and his colleagues are doing in Greece and how they are doing it.
15:39
They have a system of 250 schools with LTSP there and I want to know how they do it and what they have in the system.
15:39
Here's the planning document: please read, ask & contribute.
15:40
The date will be 9., 10, or 11th May. 10 or 11 AM.
15:41
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JIRk9QG_QZR-kKpKw7rWUi8soIae2tr9ltXYUDkvM94/edit
15:41
You are all most welcome. I will be hosting the webinar.
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15:59
<elias_a>
Oh- the timezone is Eastern European Time, GMT +2
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17:26
<stgraber>
vagrantc: hey there. I'm planning to tag trunk in the next 30min or so, anything that you'd like to see land before?
17:26
<vagrantc>
stgraber: haven't looked at it since monday, was working for me fine then
17:27
<stgraber>
k
17:27
<vagrantc>
stgraber: looks like all the changes since are ubuntu-specific
17:28
did alkisg get epoptes uploaded?
17:30
<stgraber>
not yet, no
17:30
I'm hoping for him to show up soon as the freeze is just 3.5h away
17:31
<vagrantc>
eeyp.
17:32
it was ready to go as far as i could tell.
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17:32
<vagrantc>
i could maybe get it uploaded to debian, but that might not be quick enough to sync for you
17:32
<stgraber>
yeah, that wouldn't be quicky enough
17:32
<vagrantc>
sid was showing it's unstable side llast night, otherwise i was going to do it then
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18:29
<elias_a>
Hyperbyte: Here: http://www.cyclone-e-bikes.tw/product.php?pid_for_show=3213&type=1&arem1=534&arem=101&count=1
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19:21* vagrantc waves to alkisg
19:21
<alkisg>
Hi vagrantc, hi all
19:21* alkisg prepares to upload epoptes to Precise...
19:21
<vagrantc>
alkisg: you were making stgraber nervous!
19:22
<stgraber>
alkisg: anything else that you want to push to ltsp-trunk before I tag?
19:22
<alkisg>
Haha I had it ready 12 hours ago, I was just waiting in case more translations were added
19:22
stgraber: no, nothing at this time, I'll start working on it tomorrow, so it'll have to wait for the next upload, at 29th?
19:23
<stgraber>
alkisg: ok, I'll tag now then
19:23
<alkisg>
Thanks :)
19:24
<vagrantc>
meh. epoptes's build-deps still don't install in sid...
19:25
<stgraber>
tagged
19:30
<alkisg>
...how do I add a 0.5.0 tag for epoptes?
19:30
Or should that wait until vagrantc tags 0.5.0-1 ?
19:31
bzr tag 0.5.0, and then commit (the updated changelog) and push?
19:36
<vagrantc>
alkisg: commit the "final" change, then: bzr tag 0.5.0
19:37
otherwise it'll tag the previous commit.
19:37
<alkisg>
vagrantc: no push needed after tag?
19:37
<vagrantc>
alkisg: push at the end, yes.
19:37
<alkisg>
Ah, commit, tag, push, got it
19:37
<vagrantc>
yup
19:38
alkisg: you can also retroactively tag an older revision, if that's appropriate
19:38
<alkisg>
OK, doing a push --overwrite of my last push 2 minutes ago, I hope you didn't yet pull anything and shout at me again :P
19:38
<vagrantc>
i.e. bzr tag -r XXX 0.x.x
19:38* vagrantc grumbles
19:39
<alkisg>
Done
19:39
Ah the push time wasn't even changed, it understood what I was trying to do :)
19:40
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it just breaks history and anyone's copy that they've made...
19:40
<alkisg>
vagrantc: only if they pull before the overwrite, no?
19:40
<vagrantc>
yes... but... it's a bad habit
19:41
<alkisg>
I'll put it in my to-quit list along with the casual smoking... :D (joking)
19:41
<vagrantc>
heh
19:42
<highvoltage>
15:29 < stgraber> highvoltage, gilir: new ldm-ubuntu-themes uploaded. It'll need to wait for an archive admin to process the new binary package though
19:43
^^^ alkisg
19:43
<alkisg>
highvoltage: cool! I believe the current artwork code should automatically select it if one has lubuntu on his ltsp server, or builds a lubuntu fat chroot
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19:44* stgraber uses bzr uncommit and bzr revert probably just as often as bzr commit (but I try to be careful before doing the bzr push) ;)
19:44
<pmatulis>
is this still the way to get local apps running on ubuntu (lts.conf):
19:44
LOCAL_APPS = True
19:44
LOCAL_APPS_MENU = True
19:44
LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS = $APPLICATION_NAME
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19:46
<alkisg>
vagrantc, stgraber, have a few minutes to check if I prepared the upload correctly? http://people.ubuntu.com/~alkisg/tmp/epoptes/
19:53
<stgraber>
alkisg: looking
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19:54
<vagrantc>
alkisg: nothing obviously wrong at a quick glance
19:56
<stgraber>
alkisg: debian/changelog doesn't seem to match the changes to debian/control
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19:57
<stgraber>
alkisg: would be best to list the upstream changes under a "New upstream release" line, then list the packaging changes separately
19:57
alkisg: besides that, it looks good
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20:19
<alkisg>
Meh sorry unrelated things took some time, uploading as is to make sure we don't miss the deadline...
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20:30
<Llama_be>
knipwim, you there by any chance?
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21:40
<Llama_be>
If I want one pc booting to XBMC, would you suggest incorporating that in the same chroot, or making a completely seperate chroot for that machine?
21:40
all my other machines boot into an xfreerdp client
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21:43
<Llama_be>
I'm tempted to put it in a different chroot, because I don't want to mess with my normal clients too much, as they're more important.
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22:19
<vagrantc_>
Llama_be: depending on what it is, you could just write a screen script ... i.e. like ldm and rdp are handled
22:20
don't really know what XBMC is, though
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22:22
<Llama_be>
vagrantc_: xbmc is a media center application
22:22
basically it's a very fancy interface to mplayer ;)
22:23
<vagrantc_>
it's just an application, then?
22:23
<Llama_be>
yes
22:23
<vagrantc_>
shouldn't be any problem installing that in the same chroot.
22:23
then you can configure which machines use it in lts.conf ...
22:24
<Llama_be>
if I would make seperate chroots, I can configure it in pxelinux.cfg, that's not the big issue
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22:25
<Llama_be>
I'm just a little scared, because of the tinkering I'd have to do with it and maybe messing up my normal chroot
22:26
but maybe I'll just migrate my current chroot into an LVM, so I could take a snapshot
22:27
<alkisg>
Llama_be: can't you just rsync /opt/ltsp /opt/ltsp.backup before you try it?
22:27
<vagrantc_>
your call, but there shouldn't be (m)any problems installing additional software in a chroot.
22:28
<Llama_be>
alkisg: yes, that would also work :)
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22:30
<Llama_be>
vagrantc_: it's not the installing of the software I'm worried about, more the tinkering I might have to do to get sound over HDMI working and such
22:31
all my other clients don't have speakers attached, so I'm completely unaware of how sound is handled ;)
22:31
<vagrantc_>
ah.
22:32
<Llama_be>
all other clients also use DVI or VGa, and not HDMI, but that is probably no issue
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22:33
<Llama_be>
and xbmc has a live cd edition. It should be fairly straightforward to get that to boot over the network I guess
22:35
as in mount the iso into /opt/ltsp/xbmc, copy kernel and initrd to tftproot, create pxelinux.cfg file, done?
22:38
<alkisg>
The initramfs of that cd needs to support mounting from the network
22:38
If it doesn't, it's not trivial
22:39
<Llama_be>
well, it's worth a try :)
22:39
but not today :)
22:39
<alkisg>
You should find the kernel parameter before you try though
22:39
Otherwise you can't even try it :)
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22:43
<Llama_be>
http://www.7deadly.org/XBMC/diskless.html <-- this seems to suggest it must be possible, although it is talking about an older version of xbmc
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22:45
<markit>
anyone has found a way to set global settings for recent Firerox, like 10 or 11? Like zero local cache (squid does for the lab). The method that worked for 3.x does not anymore
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23:12
<trubbor>
Quick question - might be more of a general linux question - but would help me greatly with LTSP users
23:12
<Llama_be>
!ask
23:12
<ltsp>
Llama_be: ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least 15 minutes after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
23:12
<trubbor>
Is there a "default_user" configuration directory, etc.. that a new user account uses as it's default setting?
23:13
<Llama_be>
/etc/skel
23:13
<trubbor>
I'd like to, for example - learn how to make each new account have a different default setting than out of the box setting..
23:14
So - /etc/skel is what all new accounts use?
23:14
cd .profil;e
23:14
l;s
23:14
whoops
23:15
<Llama_be>
/etc/skel/ is copied to /home/username/ on creation of a directory (at least when you give the -m to the useradd prog, don't know how other distros handle it)
23:15
<trubbor>
Which distro are you referring to?
23:15
<Llama_be>
but I assume they will also copy that directory
23:15
Gentoo, sorry
23:16
<alkisg>
Are you sorry that you're using Gentoo? :P :D
23:16
<Llama_be>
no, sorry that I didn't mention it in my original reply
23:16
it's late... :)
23:17
<alkisg>
Yup just joking. Another idea besides /etc/skel (which btw is the same in Ubuntu too), is to make an autologin script that applies any settings you want on new users
23:17
<Llama_be>
although I believe it's an hour earlier than for you alkisg ;)
23:17
<trubbor>
OK - I'll play around with that. Is there an "all users" type directory - that I could drop a file, that all existing users would then see upon login?
23:17
<alkisg>
E.g. in /etc/xdg/autostart, and apply it with gconftool, gsettings, whatever your setting needs
23:18
/etc/skel is not generic enough, e.g. you can't put a setting to use /home/username/wallpaper, as not all users have the same username
23:18
<Llama_be>
alkisg: on the other hand, your autologin script assumes a gui?
23:19
<trubbor>
I just want to do thing like change default Unity launcher items, etc -
23:19
<alkisg>
No sorry not autologin, a "when the user logs in" script
23:19
You could put that e.g. in pam and have it affect even console logins
23:19
<Llama_be>
ah yes, right
23:21
<trubbor>
I would like to create a "generic" acct. Use the GUI to set the desktop, etc up as I would like all users to see, and then copy that desktop configuration into the "default user" directory that all new accounts will be built from when creating new accounts
23:22
<alkisg>
trubbor: there used to be a tool called sabayon for that, but it's unmaintained, it no longer work on recent versions
23:22
So you can't do it as you would like, you need to edit config files or use command line utilities
23:23
<Llama_be>
I'd try to see if it would work with /etc/skell
23:23
<alkisg>
http://live.gnome.org/Sabayon/
23:23
<Llama_be>
/etc/skel I mean
23:24
<trubbor>
Wow - wish Sabayon was still maintained - and would work with Unity. Looks like almost exactly what I'm looking for.
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23:27
<trubbor>
Will look at /etc/skel
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