IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 3 September 2013   (all times are UTC)

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08:32
<Zaga>
hi ppl
08:32
have a question, I need to run xrandr to set a resolution in a thin client, I'm using LDM_SESSION in lts.conf to do this
08:33
but the script does not seem to run
08:33
any ideias?
08:33
ideas?
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08:52
<faf>
Hi. Just about to ditch my Edubuntu 13.04 test install, cause there are to many problems. I have been thinking of going the route LTSP-pnp or another simplified setup. Is Debian Wheezy LTSP stable?
08:53
<Zaga>
yes
08:54
I'm currently using it and solved many of the problems I had we graphics cards and dual monitor setups
08:54
<faf>
I'm alittle confused and split between Ubuntu and Debian.
08:55
Zaga: are you using the greek repo?
08:55
that is if your running pnp
08:59
Zaga: what setup are you using, just plain LTSP on Wheezy or using the LTPS-pnp setup, aka https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
09:03
The problem i'm facing with edubuntu, is exactly display related problems :) - and it's also faily complexed compared to a manual build system.
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09:17
<highvoltage>
faf: what part is more 'complexed compared to a manual build system'?
09:21
<faf>
well it comes with isc-dhcp-server as a dependency, and if your going the dnsmasq route, then it req more work than just to build the things you need.
09:21
<Zaga>
I'm using wheezy with wheezy-bacports
09:21
I just installed firmware-nonfree
09:22
and it all works out of the box
09:22
with a few exceptions I have to put in lts.conf the xrandr options for some machines, using XRANDR_COMMAND_0
09:23
<faf>
I had a hard time removing the isc-dhcp-server
09:23
<Zaga>
just disable it
09:23
I did that on debian using rcconf
09:24
since I have the dhcp server on another server different than the ltsp server
09:24
<faf>
I did, but it kept running, had to do the rcconf many times?
09:24
<Zaga>
no, just once
09:24
<faf>
yes, I have another dhcp too
09:25
but now my problems is with graphic cards on the thin and fat clients.
09:25
thats why I will go with wheezy instead, and just install what I need
09:25
<Zaga>
the problem with graphics, is that you should have the latest kernel and xorg drivers installed
09:26
I had those problems also
09:26
<faf>
also 13.04 has allllooott of updates
09:26
<Zaga>
but it all went away with wheezy, and backports using latest kernel
09:27
<faf>
Edubuntu looks nice and I want to use it, but it takes some time to get there.
09:27
A simple setup is a better way to do it.
09:29
Zaga: did you have any other problems with xrandr?
09:30
<Zaga>
with squeeze yes
09:31
cutting screens, not doing nothing, etc
09:34
<faf>
It has been many years since my last LTSP install, and I'm just testing to see the progress. I think it has become more simple to get things done, especially with dnsmasq.
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09:36
<faf>
I will build a wheezy with backports.
09:36
Thx for your help
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12:39
<faf>
hi. anyone had success with linux-mint-mate? - maybe even with v.15?
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17:14
<muppis>
vagrantc, you might be already aware that your how to fails when building in Ubuntu?
17:15
<vagrantc>
muppis: never tried
17:15
<muppis>
And even I build in Debian, it hanged in mount loop during boot. Device or resource busy.
17:15
<vagrantc>
worked for me... probably some undocumented assumption
17:15
it was a pretty rough sketch
17:16
<muppis>
I'll try once more, but not today.
17:16
<vagrantc>
it's a shame, the raspberry pi hardware was practically obsolete before it was even released...
17:16
<muppis>
Yep.
17:16
<vagrantc>
which makes compatibility a lot more difficult
17:21
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: I have installed a test install of linux mint debian... gonna try it out the box to build a client and see what it throws
17:23
I had another conversation with alkisg, which seemed a little more promising. I am going to try his suggestions, and will update my branch again
17:27
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: cool :)
17:27
bennabiy: alkisg usually has good suggestions :)
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19:09
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: when I try to do an install in LMDE, first off, I have to manually edit /etc/default/isc-dhcp-server to tell it to use the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf and then when I try to build... this is what I get
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19:11
<vagrantc>
that's normal for Debian
19:12
unless you made more code changes, it'll be building a Debian environment with the Ubuntu plugins...
19:12
so it's not likely to work.
19:12
<bennabiy>
ok. and then I get http://pastebin.com/PCQ2MhuN
19:13
doesnt even get to where it detects vendor
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19:24
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: did you see the message?
19:26
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: what version of LTSP?
19:26
bennabiy: ltsp-info
19:27
<bennabiy>
5.4.2
19:27
-2
19:27
server standalone
19:27
I installed ltsp-server-standalone and openssh-server
19:27
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: that's a pretty old version of ltsp
19:27
<bennabiy>
Here is my pastebin of output
19:28
<vagrantc>
there have been several key bugs fixed since that version
19:28
i thought LMDE followed debian testing?
19:29
<bennabiy>
http://pastebin.com/5y2uywNM
19:30
I do not know too much about the debian side of LM
19:30
I am just trying to see if I can roll out compatibility for both
19:30
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: my hunch is it didn't run the debootstrap phase yet, thus couldn't create /etc/hosts
19:31
<bennabiy>
if not, I will stick to just modifying the code for Ubuntu flavor
19:31
<vagrantc>
my hunch is it didn't run any distro plugins
19:31
<bennabiy>
yes
19:31
<vagrantc>
only the common plugins
19:31
<bennabiy>
It got stuck in the common plugins
19:32
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: the LinuxMint plugins should error out if codename=debian
19:32
bennabiy: until it supports it
19:33
bennabiy: dunno what changes you made that you haven't pushed yet.
19:34
<bennabiy>
This is just pulling a stock install from repository of ltsp. No hacking by me
19:34
I wanted to find out how broken debian is ( seems much more broken than the ubuntu )
19:34
LMDE I mean
19:34
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: i.e. case $MINTDIST in ... debian)
19:35
that's because it's trying to run code from the non-existant LinuxMint dir.
19:35
<bennabiy>
even though it is bombing in common?
19:35
<alkisg>
You need to patch detect_vendor() as the first step, before even trying anything more with mint...
19:35
<vagrantc>
oh, the Debian and Ubuntu packaging could install a different LinuxMint dir...
19:36
<alkisg>
Or at least set VENDOR
19:36
<bennabiy>
alkisg: I am trying a stock install of LMDE, with a stock download from repository of ltsp-server-standalone to see where it breaks
19:36
<vagrantc>
if detect_vendor faked the VENDOR to be LinuxMintDebian and LinuxMintUbuntu, then we could have a separate list of plugins for each
19:36
<bennabiy>
unhacked, no LinuxMint folder etc
19:36
<alkisg>
Mint's lsb_release is broken, that's a known bug that's filed in launchpad
19:37
You can't go on while that bug exists, without workarounds...
19:37
Try with VENDOR=Debian ltsp-build-client ...
19:37
<vagrantc>
yeah, LinuxMint needs to fix their lsb_release output to distinguish LinuxMint from LMDE
19:37
then this would be easy.
19:37
in the ID field, at least (obviously we can tell the difference in other ways).
19:38
<alkisg>
If they want to claim to be another distro, then they need to send pathes to debootstrap
19:38
Until then, I don't think that separate dirs for mint are necessary... just a couple of workarounds...
19:38* alkisg didn't phrase all that very well... but anyways
19:39
<bennabiy>
alkisg: that is why I wonder how much we want to patch the detect_vendor() function... if it is just a workaround, it could get messy in the future to unwrangle the workarounds once mint gets it together
19:39
I submitted a request for them to work with the ltsp devs to make a compatible system
19:39
we will see how far that goes
19:39* bennabiy doesn't have his hopes up
19:39
<alkisg>
bennabiy: if mint gets fixed, then the workarounds just won't match their broken distname
19:39
So they won't do anything in the future...
19:39
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: you should note the first thing is to fix the lsb_release output.
19:40
bennabiy: to the mint devs
19:40
<bennabiy>
Is there a place to document all the hacks to fix this, so that we can undo them once fixed?
19:40
<alkisg>
The source code :)
19:40* vagrantc still thinks moving forward with only the Linux Mint ubuntu variant is worth doing as a sub-dir.
19:40
<alkisg>
# TODO: remove this once that happens...
19:40
<bennabiy>
would you suggest LinuxMint and LinuxMintDE for lsb_release?
19:41
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: that's reasonable-ish
19:42
bennabiy: and they'll need to use a codename other than "debian" for LMDE
19:54
<bennabiy>
yes
19:55* bennabiy agrees with vagrantc...
19:59
<vagrantc>
though really, LinuxMint should decide weather it's a distro or just a bunch of add-on packages...
19:59
alkisg: do you know where the mint lsb_release launchpad bug is?
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20:05
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: I was going to ask the same thing
20:07
alkisg: when I issue VENDOR=Debian ltsp-... it gets me to saying I need to --dist it
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20:08
<bennabiy>
with VENDOR=Debian ltsp-build-client --arch=i386 --dist=sid it is building...
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20:09
<vagrantc>
yeah, that should work reasonably well ... still missing a few patches
20:10
or --dist wheezy or --dist jessie (presuming the version of debootstrap has jessie)
20:11
it wouldn't be hard to package up support for LinuxMint as a separate package, and then you could install the ubuntu or debian variant of the support package...
20:11
<bennabiy>
under debian_version it is wheezy/sid
20:11
<vagrantc>
that's pretty old.
20:12
wheezy's been released as stable since may.
20:12
<bennabiy>
I think this release is dated march
20:12* vagrantc is unimpressed
20:12
<vagrantc>
they should at least make an update when the thing they're basing it on is released...
20:13
LMDE is more outdated than Debian stable. wear it like a badge! :)
20:13
<bennabiy>
It might be newer, I could have misread it.
20:13
I am not defending the LMDE, I am just trying to make ltsp work :)
20:14
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: if debian_version says wheezy/sid, they haven't updated their packages since the debian release.
20:14
bennabiy: it should say 7.1 if it's kept current.
20:14
or at least 7.0
20:14
wheezy/sid is the name during development
20:17
<bennabiy>
I do not know much about how they roll out updates on LMDE, I personally do not use it
20:18
Unlike Ubuntu/Mint... If I want to run Debian, I will run Debian, If I want to run Ubuntu, I will run mint
20:19
debian uses nfs?
20:20
<vagrantc>
by default NFS, it is easy to use either.
20:20
either NFS or NBD
20:21
<bennabiy>
http://pastebin.com/AchMBARj
20:21
at end of build
20:22
<alkisg>
vagrantc: nope sorry I don't have it handy I saw it a couple of days ago when we last talked with bennabiy about it
20:23
bennabiy: if VENDOR=xxx ltsp-build-client --arch --dist is good enough for LMDE, then maybe VENDOR=Ubuntu --arch --dist will be good enough for the Ubuntu Mint variant too?
20:23* vagrantc has a lot of difficulties with launchppad's search features
20:24
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: it's telling you how to configure NFS, it doesn't think you have NFS configured for LTSP
20:24
<alkisg>
bennabiy: ah, and you'll need some of the EARLY_MIRRORS or EXTRA_MIRRORS too
20:25
VENDOR along with those 2-3 parameters should have the same effect as your proposed branch, right?
20:25
<bennabiy>
I try to boot the client, and it keeps repeating NFS over TCP not available <SERVERIP>
20:27
<alkisg>
So maybe LMDE+Ubuntu Mint support can just be a configuration file or a wiki paragraph?
20:27
<vagrantc>
there are some other things, such as the artwork and fatclient plugins that need differences
20:27
bennabiy: did you configure NFS ?
20:27
bennabiy: is the <SERVERIP> the ip address of your server?
20:27
<bennabiy>
I did what it told me to do, still nothing
20:27
yes
20:27
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: did you restart nfs-kernel-server?
20:27
<bennabiy>
yes
20:28
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: try restart instead of reload
20:28
<bennabiy>
that did it
20:29
my client started loading right away
20:29
It worked
20:30
I loaded into my user
20:30
So for the debian version, it needs a VENDOR patch, for the Ubuntu version, it just needs a couple dist patches
20:30
debian = vendor and dist patches
20:31
<alkisg>
bennabiy: try creating an /etc/ltsp/ltsp-build-client.conf file
20:31
There, put VENDOR=Debian (or Ubuntu),
20:31
DIST, EXTRA_MIRRORS, LATE_PACKAGES etc
20:32
It should be possible to build a very mintish chroot with just that .conf file
20:32
If that works as I think it will, /me thinks a wiki page would be enough... :)
20:32
...but of course I wouldn't mind at all if you guys want to commit it as code instead of a configuration file...
20:33
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients also suggests using ltsp-build-client.conf...
20:33
<bennabiy>
As a person who would actively be using this, I would like it in code so that on each system I do not have to patch in the file
20:33
<alkisg>
Some of that code for that would belong in mint though, not in ltsp
20:34
<bennabiy>
I am going to be rolling out installs of this on a fairly regular basis
20:34
<alkisg>
If they don't have things like a mint-desktop package, then you'd have to special-case everything they do wrong in the ltsp code
20:34
And when they fix those, it'll be harder to update the code than to just update the .conf file
20:35
<slackish>
I have a patch I'd like to submit, but do not have the slightest idea on the proper method of submitting it.
20:35
<alkisg>
You can start with filing a bug report for it
20:35
!ltsp-bug
20:35
<ltsp>
ltsp-bug: To file a bug report for upstream LTSP, go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp
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20:37
<bennabiy>
I would be fine with a conf, and a check in the code for a mint install, and then to place the conf file in place with the basic settings there
20:38
but you would end up getting all the ubuntu artwork, or debian artwork
20:38
etc
20:39
I wish I could have a folder for Mint and within it, I could have the configs check for the faulty codename and apply configs to it
20:40
<alkisg>
The artwork is part of the -desktop package
20:40
<slackish>
alkisg: thanks. bug report submitted
20:40
<bennabiy>
since both LMDE and ubuntu version use the same LinuxMint ID
20:40
<alkisg>
If mint doesn't have a -desktop package, then it needs special-casing...
20:40
slackish: url?
20:41
<slackish>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1220432
20:41
<bennabiy>
it has a mintdesktop package
20:41
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: the way you did LMDE with VENDOR will just be straight Debian, not with any LMDE packages...
20:41
<bennabiy>
yes
20:41
which is why I want to lean away from just telling it a config
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20:42
<bennabiy>
I am trying to avoid someone on mint from having to identify their distribution based on debian or ubuntu
20:44* alkisg sees a mate-desktop package, that can be used for fat clients
20:44
<bennabiy>
yes
20:44
I would not recommend cinnamon as it is totally unstable at this point
20:44
mate and mint go very well together
20:45
+ ltsp = great!
20:46
<alkisg>
So... for the artwork, the patch would go in Ubuntu/030-artwork
20:47
It just needs to match mate-desktop there too, and then the artwork will automatically be installed
20:48
VENDOR and DIST would go in detect_vendor (in any case, either with a separate linuxmint dir or not),
20:48
...1 script for the extra mirror...
20:49
...what other special packages does mint need, except for mate-desktop?
20:50
Just mintdesktop?
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20:53
<alkisg>
E.g. how does "mintmenu" get installed? Manually from some seeds? I don't see a hard dependency on it...
20:53
<bennabiy>
I need to look into it more
20:53
<alkisg>
"aptitude why mintmenu => unable to find a reason to install mintmenu"
20:54
<bennabiy>
mint menu is a nice graphical menu
20:54
<alkisg>
tasksel --list-tasks | grep mint ==> nothing there either
20:55
I suspect they're using seeds to install their packages, making it very hard to create a mint chroot (with or without ltsp)
20:56
<bennabiy>
there is a mint plymouth, which can be grabbed... and the mate-desktop with the mintmenu
20:56
<alkisg>
Installing mate-desktop doesn't install mintmenu though
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20:56
<alkisg>
There's no dependency there
20:56
<bennabiy>
nope
20:56
<alkisg>
So you'd need a configuration file anyway, if you want e.g. mintmenu automatically installed on fat clients
20:57
Or, a bug report against mint, so that they follow the same practices that all other flavors follow...
20:57
Even lubuntu has tasks for installing its desktop
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20:59
<alkisg>
I think a good phrasing would be:
20:59
"To create an edubuntu chroot, I run debootstrap, and then install edubuntu-desktop. What do I need to do after debootstrap to create a complete mint chroot?"
21:00
Once you get the answer to that question (maybe from the mint devs? or by looking at their seeds / cd building code?), then we'll know what exactly is needed for ltsp chroots too...
21:01
<bennabiy>
Do you think until I can figure out all the fatclient facts ( which I do not use at all) that at least my basic patch could be included to make thinclients work?
21:01
I am still looking into patching the right plymouth in place
21:01
but at a basic level, it works
21:01
as a starting point
21:02* bennabiy recalls vagrantc's comment about perfection being the enemy of good
21:03
<bennabiy>
I need to go for now, I will be back later (after you probably go to bed) but if you have thoughts, I will be logged in listening
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21:08
<bennabiy>
just emailed root@linuxmint.com
21:10* vagrantc chuckles
21:11
<alkisg>
(12:01:22 πμ) bennabiy: I am still looking into patching the right plymouth in place ==> that's just the artwork package
21:11
You can put that in 030-artwork like I said above
21:11
It just needs to match mate-desktop too
21:12
(the code there tries to select the chroot artwork based on the installed -desktop package of the server)
21:12
<vagrantc>
in theory, you could have mate-desktop from an external ubuntu repository.
21:12
on an ubuntu server...
21:13* vagrantc is sure ubuntu will love having that in there...
21:13
<alkisg>
And then you'd want the mate plymouth logo, there's nothing mint-specific there...
21:14
The only really-mint-specific things I've seen so far, is the broken lsb_release which would be handled in detect_vendor, and the extra mirror, which needs 1 file
21:14
The extra packages will need another one because the mint-desktop package doesn't have the appropriate dependencies
21:14
But that's about all there is for mint support, afaik...
21:15* vagrantc suspects there are other subtle tweaks somewhere...
21:16
<vagrantc>
like they tend to mark certain packages on hold, like the kernel
21:16
<alkisg>
We'd need to see their CD building code to make sure
21:16
<vagrantc>
yeah
21:17
<alkisg>
I understand their need for pinning for LMDE, but not for the Ubuntu variant...
21:17
LMDE == sid, so they want less frequent updates for more stability, ok...
21:17
...but why pinning for released ubuntu versions?
21:18* vagrantc leaves that as an excercise for the reader
21:19
<alkisg>
http://packages.linuxmint.com/list.php?release=Olivia
21:20
https://github.com/tuquito/ubuntu-system-adjustments
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21:21
<vagrantc>
dunno why i seem so interested in this, i've never seen mint, i'm not particularly into mint, there are some things that seem very wrong with mint, and yet... i guess i just feel it's important for LTSP to be cross-distro.
21:21
and it seems like it shouldn't be too hard
21:22* alkisg doesn't care much when "supporting a distro" is as simple as creating an ltsp-build-client.conf file... :)
21:23
<alkisg>
I like the mint interface, and mate-desktop seems very nice for ltsp, yet I don't know, all those feel... undermaintained? :-/
21:25
Hehe... /etc/xdg/autostart/mint-xhost-plus.desktop:
21:25
Exec=xhost +
21:25
:)
21:27* vagrantc cries
21:29* alkisg waves goodnight to all
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21:33
<christophe_y2k>
hi all, have a problem on gentoo linux, my thin amd64 client stay on console at boot , any idea ?
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