IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 10 February 2008   (all times are UTC)

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09:15
<moldy>
hi
09:16
i am currently evaluating the possibility of using ltsp in an internetcafe / computer pool
09:16
do you know if disklessworkstations.com will ship to europe?
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12:55
<warren>
Q-FUNK, I haven't got any commitments from our X team
12:55
Q-FUNK, they did however say that they planned on porting all X drivers except a short list of ancient hardware
12:55
<Q-FUNK>
warren: ok
12:57
warren: it would be nice if you guys could contribute at least some of the remaining items, such as porting this to libpciaccess
12:57
<warren>
Q-FUNK, that's among the list of things they said they would do
12:57
<Q-FUNK>
warren: nice to hear. any ETA?
12:57
warren: any way they could manifest themselves on the xorg-geode list too?
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13:20
<warren>
Q-FUNK, they are not very communicative
13:20
Q-FUNK, this is based upon a public announcement on fedora-devel-list
13:20
Q-FUNK, before fedora 9 they will be porting all x drivers except a short ancient list
13:21
<Q-FUNK>
warren: it would be useful for them to get in touch and send me their diff.
13:26
<warren>
Q-FUNK, you are the upstream maintainer of the driver now right?
13:26
<Q-FUNK>
yup
13:26
of -amd
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14:29
<Q-FUNK>
dberkholz: wb
14:40
<dberkholz>
Q-FUNK: where'd i go? =)
14:40
<Q-FUNK>
dberkholz: to the snake pit of xorg :)
14:40
<dberkholz>
ahh yes
14:41
mainly because i've been trying to track down arjan for a week or so
14:41
latencytop patch doesn't compile for me
14:41
<Q-FUNK>
ah
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15:39
<Furlow>
Hi all I need help with ltsp my current sittuation is that I mean running my server with one nic and i have booted using pxe on my laptop, I have a login window but I can't login. I type the user and then the password (both are correct) and I get the "verifying password, please wait" message it then goes to a blank screen and then the login re appears. On my switch none of light flicker when I login which would make me guess
15:41
<vagrantc>
Furlow: which linux distro?
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15:46
<Furlow>
ubuntu
15:46
I have ubuntu 7.10
15:49
<vagrantc>
Furlow: dpkg -l 'ltsp*' | egrep ^ii ; dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l 'ltsp*' ldm | egrep ^ii
15:50
Furlow: your server has a static ip address?
15:50
<Furlow>
what will that do vagrantc???
15:50
yes it does
15:50
have a static ip
15:50
<vagrantc>
Furlow: it will show the ltsp versions of the ltsp related packages, and which you have installed
15:51
Furlow: is is possible that the ip address changed since you installed ltsp ?
15:51
<Furlow>
I just found out on a found out on a forum that they had select gnome sessions to login and that worked for me so I m just fine as it is, so now on to secondary configuration, is there some kind of xorg.conf I can create for each separate client using the mac address so that my laptop will display 1280x800 instead of a small annoying box screen with black edges
15:51
thank you for your help
15:52
also will I have to keep selecting the gnome session or will it act as default the next time i boot the client??
15:52
<vagrantc>
Furlow: you should have an lts.conf somewhere ... /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/ ... youneed to add options there
15:52
i don't know- i don't use ubuntu
15:53
it should just use your default session .... /usr/sbin/update-alternatives --display x-session-manager
15:53
<Furlow>
oh okay I will read up on the lts.conf I thought I might need to do something with that
15:53
okay thank you very much
15:53
<vagrantc>
Furlow: you can specify each machine by mac address [00:a5:05:50:14]
15:54
Furlow: and then specify options there ... like X_CONF=/path/to/xorg.conf
15:54
Furlow: needs to be a full path relative to the thin-client's root ....
15:55
Furlow: and you'll need to run ltsp-update-image after updating your chroot ...
15:55* vagrantc cringes
15:56
<Furlow>
where is my thin client root or where should it default be, or do and can I make separate roots for each client?
15:57
<vagrantc>
whoah...
15:57
<Furlow>
so that they all have there own personalised settings
15:57
did ask to much???
15:57
<vagrantc>
90% of the point of ltsp is to share the root environments between multiple machines
15:57
you thin client root is probably /opt/ltsp/i386
15:58
and then ubuntu does this thing where any time you modify that, you have to run ltsp-update-image and it will create a new /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
15:58
<Furlow>
yes it is
15:58
<vagrantc>
which takes a long time
15:59
<Furlow>
okay well I can go make a coffee and come back
15:59
<vagrantc>
i guess long time is relative ...
15:59
but anyways ...
15:59
<Furlow>
thanks so editing xorg.conf is just like normal
16:00
<vagrantc>
well, /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf get's overwritten on boot, unless you specify CONFIGURE_X=False
16:01
so i would recommend setting up /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf.FOO and then specifying in lts.conf X_CONF=/etc/X11/xorg.conf.FOO ...
16:02
<Furlow>
could I just put it in a separate folder in X11 and then specify X_CONF=/path/to/xorg.conf.......as I was typing you came similar suggestion would yours be better practise or would the setup i suggested work I don't mind which one I do just currious
16:03
also where is the lts.conf
16:04
<vagrantc>
X_CONF=/path/to/xorg.conf will copy /path/to/xorg.conf to /etc/X11/xorg.conf
16:04
Furlow: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf ... i think ... this is where ubuntu and debian start to differ a lot.
16:05
<Furlow>
you have debian?
16:05
<vagrantc>
yeah, i work on ltsp for debian
16:05
<cliebow>
Furlow, if in gutsy..you "can" put an lts.conf in /var/lib./tftpboot and have it tftp downl;oaded
16:06* vagrantc offers cliebow a new keyboard
16:06
<cliebow>
pardon the extra crap there
16:06
vagrantc, it doesnt help 8)
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16:08
<Furlow>
I got it /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf if anyone else needed to know where the ubuntu lts.conf is
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16:09
<vagrantc>
Furlow: read the comments in that file
16:09
Furlow: should tell you where to actually look.
16:10
<Furlow>
okay that wasn't it, i must of got the wrong documentation
16:15
<MacIver>
you can create the file
16:15
iirc, in edubuntu it wasn't there by default
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16:22
<Furlow>
where do i put the lts.conf in ubuntu
16:22
<MacIver>
Furlow: in the place /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf told you
16:23
Furlow: should say in here http://scribere.no-ip.org/LTSP
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16:25
<Furlow>
I found my conf file finaly /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf no for editing
16:27
<MacIver>
/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
16:28
<Furlow>
now for editing is what i mean't say
16:29
<MacIver>
Furlow: iirc the one in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf says you should use the one in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
16:29
<Furlow>
does it let me check??
16:29
<MacIver>
huh?
16:29
<Furlow>
okay yeah thanks
16:32
i'm dyslexic (why did they make the word for the problem difficult to spell that was stupid) and so yeah i miss out the punctuation, what I meant was "does it....... Let me check"
16:34
<MacIver>
i am dyslexic as well, but when i see the sentence i expect a certain shape to it---a break between the two thoughts
16:38
<Furlow>
oh okay yeah although this is a dyslexic channel but anyways thought I would just say it goes under diagnosed and people generally think that it means you stupid but in fact it is the complete opposite, my real problem is mixing round all the right letters in a word just not in the right order, I'm also very forgetful not sure if that is dyslexia
16:39
not a dyslexia channel
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16:58
<moldy>
hi
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17:10
<Furlow>
Hi what is the option to set the default session in the lts.conf
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18:25
<dberkholz>
eharrison: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/linux/kernel/877337
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19:35
<Schmao-Fmao>
Hey there, anyone alive at the moment?
19:35
I'm trying to mount the local HD on my LTSP client and I'm running into problems
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19:44
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: what linux distro?
19:44
<Schmao-Fmao>
Ubuntu
19:44
<vagrantc>
what release?
19:44
<Schmao-Fmao>
Gutsy
19:45
I'm trying to clone systems using dd and netcat - hopefully LTSP will help me with the initial bootup
19:45
and then I can write a prebuilt image directly to the local hard drive
19:45
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: so, what's the issue you're having?
19:46* vagrantc wouldn't recommend netcat, as it's not very good at ensuring data integrity
19:46
<Schmao-Fmao>
I can successfully log in on the client
19:46
and I see the filesystem on the server
19:47
but I can't seem to find the device file that represents the local hard drive
19:47
which would normally be /dev/sda
19:48
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: is it an IDE drive?
19:48
<Schmao-Fmao>
I might be able to find something other than netcat - I can use systemimager, but the program package is very large, and my coworkers aren't convinced that it does exact copies
19:48
no, it's a SATA drive
19:48
Thanks for helping by the way :)
19:49* vagrantc would suspect systemimager/partimage to do a much better job of ensuring exact copies
19:49
<Schmao-Fmao>
should I check out partimage?
19:49
<vagrantc>
i think partimage is part of systemimager ...
19:50
<Schmao-Fmao>
For SI, would I expect the golden client and the cloned machine to have filesystems that are truly exact?
19:50
like if I were to "diff" the contents of /dev/sda
19:50
would I get that there's no difference?
19:51
<vagrantc>
can't say for sure.
19:51
anyways ... i'm guessing there is some kernel module or support library you need to add to your client chroot to support SATA ...
19:52
<Schmao-Fmao>
I actually think that LTSP is a somewhat complicated solution to a simple problem - I just need to boot into *something* :)
19:53
I've tried to netboot an ubuntu live CD, a debian live CD, and a knoppix live CD, none of which worked completely
19:53
<vagrantc>
i've used ltsp-like setups for cloning systems in the past. though i simply used partitioning tools and rsync ... didn't need everything to be EXACT
19:55
<Schmao-Fmao>
That's true. I mean, if the "dmesg" is different because the MAC addresses of the network hardware are different
19:55
then that breaks the exactness
19:56
Ideally, I could get one of the live CD's to netboot properly. Do you think you can give me a few pointers for that? My questions are very specfic
19:56
('cause I've been struggling with this for a while)
19:56
<vagrantc>
not really
19:56
much more able to help with getting ltsp to work
19:57
<Schmao-Fmao>
gotcha, thanks - I can keep going with that route
19:57
<vagrantc>
i do know there's allegedly various forms of network boot for debian-live, but i mostly just lurk there, i'm not very experienced with it
19:58
<Schmao-Fmao>
Currently, I've followed through some of the LTSP tutorials on the ubuntu wiki
19:58
and it seems that LTSP requires the local devices to be partitioned
19:58
What if they aren't partitioned?
19:59
I'm trying to clone onto a completely empty HD
19:59
<vagrantc>
no, ltspfs requires the local devices to be partitioned ...
19:59
because it actually mounts the filesystems
20:00
<Schmao-Fmao>
thus, I should be able to see the devices, I just can't mount them :) Got it
20:00
<vagrantc>
but you're not able to access the device that you expect to be found at /dev/sda
20:01
<Schmao-Fmao>
I guess here's the thing. When I go into /dev and type ls with the client
20:01
I seem to see exactly the same thing if I go into /dev/ and type ls on the server
20:01
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: well, in a traditional LTSP environment, you log into a sever from the thin-client, and there's ltspfs which exports the filesystems over the network so that the server can access files on the thin-client
20:01
<Schmao-Fmao>
About the last thing you just said
20:01
Do you mean "so that the thin-client can access files on the server"?
20:02
<vagrantc>
no
20:02
so that the server can access files on the thin-client
20:02
<Schmao-Fmao>
So if I have a terminal on the server
20:02
I should be able to see the "dev/sda" on the thin-client
20:02
<vagrantc>
if you're logging into the server, then all the files you see are on the server.
20:02
no.
20:02
/dev/* will be the /dev/* from the server. that's the way of it.
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20:03
<Schmao-Fmao>
oh that's not exactly what I meant
20:03
I mean, if I had a terminal on the server running, I should be able to access the client filesystem by going into the correct directory
20:03
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: so, the question i have is how are you logging in? when you log in, are you logging into the thin-client itself, or using the thin-client to log into the server?
20:03
<Schmao-Fmao>
I just need to know what that directory is
20:03
I'm logging into the thin-client, but once I log in I see the files on the server
20:03
<vagrantc>
ah.
20:04
<Schmao-Fmao>
Alternatively ... I also have a terminal running on the server, NOT on the thin-client. Both are on my screen
20:04
<vagrantc>
ok, so what you want to do is log into the thin-client itself.
20:04
<Schmao-Fmao>
Right
20:04
<vagrantc>
then you'll be able to see the device nodes on the thin-client
20:04
<jammcq>
Schmao-Fmao: you are logging into the thin client? OR, are you using the thin client to log into the server?
20:04
the default is the latter
20:05
<Schmao-Fmao>
Okay, jammcq, I might be doing the latter. :P It brings up a graphical login screen, and when I login I get my home directory on the server
20:05
<jammcq>
yeah, you are logging into the server
20:05
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: set SCREEN_07=shell in lts.conf ... and then switch to tty7 when the thin-client boots up
20:05
<jammcq>
yeah, do what vagrantc said
20:05
<Schmao-Fmao>
Gotcha - I'll do that. I have to configure my vmware to take CTRL-ALT-F7 but that should be easy
20:06
Thanks :) I'll try that in the next few minutes
20:06
<jammcq>
you are cloning vmware virtual disks ?
20:06
<Schmao-Fmao>
no, vmware is just something I'm using to "test" the ltsp server
20:06
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: you may as well set CONFIGURE_X=false as well
20:06
<jammcq>
ah
20:06
<Schmao-Fmao>
I would be repeating this process with a real computer
20:06
but that's in my office and I'm at home :P
20:07
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: but that should get you a shell on the thin-client itself, rather than the graphical login screen that connects you to the server.
20:07
jammcq: so dberkholz and eharrison just took off. sounds like some decent progress was made :)
20:08
hoping to get another hackfest together in a few months
20:08
<Schmao-Fmao>
Gotcha, vagrantc
20:08
I think that screen 7 is the default for the graphical interface anyway, right?
20:08
I shouldn't have to hit CTRL ALT F7
20:08
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: well, this will not be a graphical interface.
20:08
Schmao-Fmao: it will be a shell
20:09
<Schmao-Fmao>
Right
20:09
I set it to the shell when I edited lts.conf
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20:09
<Schmao-Fmao>
I meant, I shouldn't have to switch to tty7 because that's the default, am I correct?
20:09
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: if you want a graphical interface, you should be able to install gdm in the chroot
20:09
<Schmao-Fmao>
I don't need one
20:10
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: i think you will have to switch to tty7, because it's not running the graphical interface
20:10
<Schmao-Fmao>
Gotcha
20:10
then I'll configure my vmware to take ctrl alt f7 :)
20:10
Now that my image is updated, I'll restart tftpd-hpa
20:10
but I don't have to restart anything else
20:10
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: it will default to tty1, is my guess, and that will present you with a login screen on the thin client, for which there are no valid passwords.
20:11
SCREEN_07=shell just gives you a root shell.
20:11
<Schmao-Fmao>
then I'll set SCREEN_01=shell as well :)
20:12
<vagrantc>
and if you don't disable the getty on tty1, then you'll have both a shell and a login proigram running simultaneously.
20:12
<Schmao-Fmao>
and the shell will be running behind?
20:12
<vagrantc>
you will have extremely bizarre, confusing, and unexpected behaviors.
20:12
so....
20:12
just trust me here.
20:13
<Schmao-Fmao>
gotcha, I won't do SCREEN_01=shell then
20:13
<vagrantc>
because both the shell and the login program will be reading your input and giving appropriate output at the same time.
20:14
so you type a shell command, and then you'll get Password: as well as the output of the shell command.
20:15
<Schmao-Fmao>
Gotcha I see :) I figured out how to hit ctrl alt f7 on vmware so I'm all set, I think
20:15
<vagrantc>
hopefully you can see the devices now...
20:15
<Schmao-Fmao>
I'll restart tftpd-hpa and tell you what I get :)
20:16
<vagrantc>
restarting the tftp server shouldn't really come into play here ...
20:16
<Schmao-Fmao>
I've been restarting the tftp server each time I edit the pxelinux.cfg/default file
20:16
this isn't exactly the same thing
20:16
but in general I've restarted it whenever I update things on the server
20:16
<jammcq>
no need
20:16* vagrantc has never needed to restart it when updating files
20:17
<Schmao-Fmao>
okay, it says "no job control in this shell"
20:17
and ..
20:17
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: sounds about right ... so the first thing you'll notice ... is there's no job control :)
20:17
<Schmao-Fmao>
the /home directory is empty
20:17
<jammcq>
sounds right
20:17
no users configured on the thin client
20:17
<Schmao-Fmao>
there is no /dev/sda
20:18
let me check for hda or something
20:18
<jammcq>
prolly need to load some kernel modules
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20:18
<Schmao-Fmao>
got it .. meaning I need to type modprobe -i filename.ko, am I correct?
20:19
<jammcq>
yeah, the trick is figuring out what 'filename' is
20:19
<Schmao-Fmao>
but I am on the LTSP client now. Where can I get kernel modules?
20:19
<jammcq>
same place
20:19
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: probably just modprobe modulename
20:19
<jammcq>
yeah, modprobe doesn't need .ko
20:19
<Schmao-Fmao>
okay, I'll do find / -name "*ko"
20:19
and try to find out which one it is
20:19
wow
20:19
there are lots =P
20:19
hah
20:20
oh boy, I can't stop it
20:20
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: do you have a booted system running that has the same type of drive loaded?
20:20
Schmao-Fmao: yea no job control ...
20:20
<Schmao-Fmao>
Yes, the machine that VMware is running on has that drive loaded
20:20
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: because you could find the module name from the /sys attributes for the device
20:21
<Schmao-Fmao>
let's see .. if I google "SATA kernel module", would it come up?
20:21
otherwise I can google how to get sys attributes
20:22
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: cd /sys/block
20:22
<Schmao-Fmao>
oh, nice :) there are files under sda
20:23
the files under sda don't tell me the module name
20:23
I'll look around
20:24
None of the files seem to say
20:25
<vagrantc>
/sys/block/FOO/device/driver/module
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20:25
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: that should be a symlink to the module name ... at least on debian systems it is
20:26
<Schmao-Fmao>
Ah, modalias
20:26
that's probably the same thing
20:26
alias for the module
20:26
and then I can translate it to the module name somehow
20:26
it's not under "driver" though, under "driver" there's only "bind" and "unbind"
20:26
<vagrantc>
i didn't find modalias to be useful... do you have a /sys/block/FOO/device/driver/module symlink?
20:26
<Schmao-Fmao>
No, there aren't
20:27
<vagrantc>
ok... well... i'm at a loss then
20:27
<Schmao-Fmao>
no problem - I think there's a file in /etc that translates ..
20:29
Intel SATA controller
20:29
ICH9
20:29
driver is ATA_PIIX
20:29
I think ..
20:30
I loaded it, still no /dev/sda
20:30
<jammcq>
there's probably about 4 modules that need to be loaded
20:30
sata appears like a SCSI drive. You'll need some scsi modules as well
20:30
sd_{something} probably
20:31
<Schmao-Fmao>
gotcha
20:31
I'll look for them with "find"
20:32
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: narrow your search with /lib/modules
20:32
<jammcq>
try sd_mod and scsi_mod
20:32
<vagrantc>
Schmao-Fmao: actually, look at /proc/modules on the running server
20:32
<jammcq>
you might try loading both of those
20:33
<Schmao-Fmao>
can I actually do this:
20:33
find . -name "*.ko" | xargs modprobe
20:33
or is that pretty silly ..
20:33
<vagrantc>
that is a foolish thing to do.
20:33
<jammcq>
I wouldn't
20:34
<Schmao-Fmao>
jammcq, I loaded both sd_mod and scsi_mod, there's still no /dev/sda
20:34
<jammcq>
try 'libata' too
20:35
and ata_piix and ata_generic
20:35
<Schmao-Fmao>
mm .. Still nothing there
20:36
Wait ..
20:36
<vagrantc>
is there a libata package?
20:36
<Schmao-Fmao>
I think this makes a lot of sense -P
20:36
I'm logging in with a virtual machine
20:36
of course there isn't a /dev/sda
20:36
Am I right?
20:36
<jammcq>
depends on whether you setup one in vmware
20:36
<vagrantc>
does your virtual machine support SATA drive emulation?
20:36
<Schmao-Fmao>
But if I were to do this in real life, it ought to be there
20:36
<jammcq>
prolly not
20:36
it's either scsi or ata
20:36
<Schmao-Fmao>
oh, I don't know that. I just installed vmware, the free version
20:37
<jammcq>
in vmware, the default is a scsi disk
20:37
so none of that ata stuff should be needed
20:37
<Schmao-Fmao>
When I type in lspci, I don't see the device there
20:37
<vagrantc>
is it a PCI device?
20:38
<jammcq>
you should be able to see a scsi controller
20:38
yeah, in vmware it is
20:38
<Schmao-Fmao>
No SCSI controller
20:38
<jammcq>
check your vmware VM config
20:38
see if you created a disk, and if so, what kind
20:38
<Schmao-Fmao>
Gotcha
20:38
What you just told me to do
20:39
it ought to work when I boot in with a real machine
20:39
right?
20:39
<jammcq>
seems right
20:39
<Schmao-Fmao>
The fact that there is no disk under lspci just means that I didn't create a disk with my virtual machine
20:39
<jammcq>
disks don't show up in lspci
20:39
only controllers
20:39* vagrantc thinks time would be better spent verifying than speculating
20:39
<jammcq>
so you should be seeing a scsi or ide controller
20:40
<Schmao-Fmao>
There's an IDE interface
20:40
<jammcq>
that *might* be for your disk, but it's more likely for a virtual cdrom
20:40
<Schmao-Fmao>
okay, under the VM config the presence of floppies and IDE are set to false
20:41
If I set them to true, then perhaps the disks will show up
20:41vagrantc has quit IRC
20:41
<Schmao-Fmao>
but IDE != SATA, right?
20:41
<jammcq>
well, it's more than just setting IDE to true
20:41
and right, IDE != SATA
20:41
you need to create a virtual disk
20:42
are you using the free vmware player? or the free vmware-server ?
20:42
<Schmao-Fmao>
I installed the free vmware-server
20:42
<jammcq>
k
20:42
I use that alot
20:42
<Schmao-Fmao>
There must be an example config file I can look at somewhere
20:42
I'll look for it :)
20:43BGomes has joined #ltsp
20:44
<Schmao-Fmao>
Okay, I think I found some lines to add to my vmx.cfg
20:44
<jammcq>
no
20:44
you really need to use the config editor
20:44
cuz it needs to create the virtual disk file too
20:44
<Schmao-Fmao>
gotcha
20:45
<jammcq>
which means shutting downt he vm client
20:45
<Schmao-Fmao>
Cool, pre-allocating virtual disk :)
20:47
I'm getting errors that say "rejecting I/O to offline device" .. I'll google it
20:49
Oh
20:49
Could it be a permission problem?
20:49
I created it as the root user
20:49
<jammcq>
created what?
20:49
<Schmao-Fmao>
I ran "vmware" as root
20:49edgarin has quit IRC
20:49
<jammcq>
should be ok
20:49
<Schmao-Fmao>
which means the virtual disk must have been created as root
20:49
<jammcq>
I do all my vmware-server stuff as root
20:50
<Schmao-Fmao>
Gotcha, I'll keep looking
20:53FuriousGeorge has joined #ltsp
20:53
<FuriousGeorge>
hey all
20:54
<Schmao-Fmao>
Hey there
20:54
Google says that some people have had luck removing the disk in the config, then adding it again as an existing disk
20:54
let me see what happens there
20:55
<FuriousGeorge>
im researching ltsp, and i'm not understanding a few things. i can set up a diskless x terminal, and it must run its own copy of X. what does ltsp run on the client? just enough of X for xdmcp?
20:55
just the client side?
20:55
<jammcq>
yeah, basically
20:56
actually, it no longer uses xdmpc. it uses ssh to launch the session on the server and display to the workstation
20:56
<FuriousGeorge>
jammcq: isnt that slower as ssh is encrypted?
20:56
negligible i guess
20:57
<jammcq>
it can be. but there's also an option to use ssh to get the session started, but then not tunnel the X over ssh.
20:58
<FuriousGeorge>
ah...
20:58spectra has joined #ltsp
20:58
<FuriousGeorge>
jammcq: so what is the practical difference from what I would implement with LTSP to what i fuzzily remember about setting up XDMCP 8 years ago?
20:59
from what i recall i was able to get a kdm login in a window of another computer running X, and basically use the remote computer
20:59
<jammcq>
ok, what are you trying to do?
20:59
<FuriousGeorge>
windows terminal services
20:59
for linux
20:59
<Schmao-Fmao>
I closed VMware by accident and now it won't open again :P Maybe this means it's time for me to go to sleep
20:59
<jammcq>
heh
21:00
<FuriousGeorge>
Schmao-Fmao: check the .writelock files maybe... try launching it from the term and see what happens
21:00
<Schmao-Fmao>
gotcha, I'll check it out
21:00
<FuriousGeorge>
i dont think you should have writelocks if the VM is off, but dont quote me on that
21:01
<Schmao-Fmao>
I am launching it from the terminal
21:01
There are no .WRITELOCK files
21:01
<jammcq>
using vmware-server-console ?
21:02
<Schmao-Fmao>
I type in vmware on the command line
21:02
<FuriousGeorge>
jammcq: i know this must seem like a stupid question, but what does LTSP do that setting up XDMCP didnt do, back in the day? does LTSP just make it easier to administrate?
21:02
<jammcq>
LTSP provides an operating system to a diskless thin client
21:02
you obviously need more than just an Xserver
21:03
<FuriousGeorge>
Schmao-Fmao: does the command line have anything to say about that?
21:03
<jammcq>
a thin client needs a kernel and libraries and /sbin/init and a bunch of other things
21:03
<Schmao-Fmao>
yeah but I can't cut / paste it, one sec I'/usr/lib/vmware-server/bin/vmware: /usr/lib/vmware-server/lib/libpng12.so.0/libpng12.so.0: no version information available (required by /usr/
21:03* jammcq thinks Schmao-Fmao isn't using 'vmware-server'
21:03
<jammcq>
hmm
21:03
<FuriousGeorge>
jammcq: so in a manner of speaking, its like XDMCP for diskless stations? again, keep in mind my knowledge of xdmcp is very outdated?
21:04
<Schmao-Fmao>
Oh, sorry about that ..
21:04
I was trying to paste it, one moment
21:04
Here's what the command line says
21:05
"/usr/lib/vmware-server/bin/vmware: /usr/lib/vmware-server/lib/libpng12.so.0/libpng12.so.0: no version information available (required by /usr/"
21:05
<jammcq>
FuriousGeorge: xdmcp is just a protocol for starting a session. if you have a server computer and a workstation computer, you can tell the Xserver to us xdmcp to start a session on the other machine.
21:05
LTSP provides the entire operating system needed to even get to the point where XDMCP would be used
21:05
<Schmao-Fmao>
jammcq: I have vmware-server installed, I just checked
21:06
<FuriousGeorge>
jammcq: ok, im starting to wrap my mind around it a bit better now...
21:06
<jammcq>
Schmao-Fmao: vmware-server runs in the background. you then need a console program, like vmware-server-console, or the web-based thingy to access that background vmware-server
21:06
the only way I've used vmware-server is through vmware-server-console
21:08
<Schmao-Fmao>
From the command line, I typed in "vmware", and before, a console would come up
21:08
Now, nothing comes up
21:08
I don't think I have a command called vmware-server-console
21:09
I have vmware vmware-authtrusted vmware-config-network.pl vmware-mount.pl vmware-serverd vmware-authd vmware-cmd vmware-loop vmware-ping vmware-vdiskmanager
21:09
<jammcq>
try vmware-cmd -l
21:10
<Schmao-Fmao>
The command doesn't return an error but nothing appears
21:10
hold on. I'll close the window and reconnect
21:11
<FuriousGeorge>
jammcq: but also, I can have a diskless terminal with X w/o using LTSP... just PXE booting a chroot environment on my host computer... whats better about LTSP than that?
21:12
<jammcq>
LTSP gives you that chroot environment
21:12
<Schmao-Fmao>
I have the same issue as before. "/usr/lib/vmware-server/bin/vmware: /usr/lib/vmware-server/lib/libpng12.so.0/libpng12.so.0: no version information available (required by /usr/lib32/libcairo.so.2)
21:12
<jammcq>
sure you can build the chroot yourself
21:12
<Schmao-Fmao>
I think this message came up even when the console did pop up
21:12
<jammcq>
or, you can use LTSP to do that for you
21:12
<FuriousGeorge>
jammcq: so ltsp is a framework for administration
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21:12
<jammcq>
Schmao-Fmao: that's not a critical error. I get that too
21:13
<Schmao-Fmao>
Yeah, I thought so
21:13
<jammcq>
FuriousGeorge: well, yeah.
21:13
<Schmao-Fmao>
I wasn't 100% sure though
21:13
<FuriousGeorge>
which is kinda what i expected, i just didnt understand how it was working. now i understand a little
21:14
<Schmao-Fmao>
Should I kill all the processes that have "vm" in the name and then restart?
21:15
<jammcq>
you could try: /etc/init.d/vmware restart
21:15
<Schmao-Fmao>
mm .. still the same issue
21:15
It returns me to the command line right away
21:15
<jammcq>
man vmware
21:17
<Schmao-Fmao>
I think the issue may be that I didn't close vmware properly
21:17
but after restarting it, I thought the problem would've gone away..
21:17
maybe I can uninstall and reinstall it, but that's kind of a brute force method
21:17
and it might not even work
21:18
<jammcq>
vmware server isn't meant to be run the way vmware-workstation was
21:18
I'd install vmware-server-console
21:18
do you have vmware-serverd running?
21:18
<Schmao-Fmao>
Yes
21:18
<jammcq>
install vmware-server-console, and use that to attach to vmware-serverd
21:19
<Schmao-Fmao>
I'll try. It isn't one of the programs on the list, I have to find the .deb somewhere
21:19
<jammcq>
did you install vmware-server from a deb?
21:19
<Schmao-Fmao>
I used apt-get
21:20
I think I already have all the repositories
21:20
<jammcq>
hmm, dunno how current that is, and if vmware-server-console is available
21:20
I install vmware from the vmware website
21:20
<Schmao-Fmao>
I ought to uninstall my current version then
21:20
hold on...
21:23
I got a segfault when I ran vmware-install.pl
21:23
Could it be that I'm on a 64-bit operating system?
21:23
would that cause it?
21:23
<jammcq>
I doubt it, i'm using 64-bit
21:23
vmware-install.pl is a perl script
21:23
<Schmao-Fmao>
Right
21:23
<jammcq>
no way that should cause a segfault
21:24
<Schmao-Fmao>
It must have called some other binary
21:24
<jammcq>
wonder if the kernel is in a funky state, after vmware was shutdown
21:24
<mistik1>
ping
21:24
<Schmao-Fmao>
hm .. I can't restart it now
21:25
I'm at home and the computer is at work - I'll go in early tomorrow and see what happens
21:26
if I restart it, it'll net-boot into the thin client mode
21:26
oh, by the way, one last question ..
21:26
How does LTSP set up the TFTP prefix?
21:26
I want to be able to edit it, but I wasn't able to find the location of the TFTP prefix via google
21:27
<jammcq>
look in /etc/inetd.conf
21:27
it's part of the cmdline when tftpd starts
21:28
<Schmao-Fmao>
tftp dgram udp wait.100 root /usr/sbin/tcpd in.tftpd -s -r blksize /var/lib/tftpboot
21:28
That's the top line
21:28
It doesn't seem to have a prefix .. I put that line in when I set the PXE server up
21:29
tftp dgram udp wait.100 root /usr/sbin/tcpd in.tftpd -s -r blksize /var/lib/tftpboot
21:29
That's the bottom line
21:29
<jammcq>
ok, so all things served by tftp need to be in /var/lib/tftpboot
21:29
<Schmao-Fmao>
no wait
21:29
sorry, I pasted the top line twice
21:30
So here's the second line that I already commented out before. "#2000 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdrootd /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img"
21:30
I've been editing the contents of /var/lib/tftpboot for a while
21:30
It appears not to be using the /var/lib/tftpboot/pxelinux.cfg/default file
21:30
It's using /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg
21:31
so there's a prefix /ltsp/i386
21:31
<jammcq>
what's "filename" set to in your dhcpd.conf file?
21:31
<Schmao-Fmao>
pxelinux.0
21:31
Wait .. Could the prefix be in there?
21:32
<jammcq>
well, it could be "i386/pxlinux.0"
21:32
<Schmao-Fmao>
I can't tell 'cause it's a binary
21:32
<jammcq>
what is?
21:32
no, it's not in pxelinux.0
21:32
<Schmao-Fmao>
The filename is just pxelinux.0
21:32
<jammcq>
grep filename /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf
21:32
<Schmao-Fmao>
there's quotes but that's it
21:33spectra has joined #ltsp
21:34
<Schmao-Fmao>
all right. I found /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
21:34
And in there, the filename is different
21:34
<jammcq>
ah, you are using Ubuntu
21:34
<Schmao-Fmao>
How come the dhcp-server is using a different dhcpd.conf?
21:34
<jammcq>
I was thinking Debian
21:35
<Schmao-Fmao>
It used to use the one in etc/dhcp3
21:35
<jammcq>
cuz that's the way Ubuntu decided to handle it
21:35
<Schmao-Fmao>
Gotcha .. sorry for the confusion
21:35
Is there a way for me to redirect the DHCP server to look at etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf?
21:35
<jammcq>
yeah, remove /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
21:35
or rename it to get it out of the way
21:35
<Schmao-Fmao>
Okay, got it
21:36
I'll do that in case LTSP doesn't work out for me
21:37
I'm looking for solutions that allow me to clone systems, and that led me to LTSP .. the clients can boot with LTSP, then I'll use "dd" to write an image file, stored on the server, directly to the client's HD
21:37
I've tried to net-boot with a variety of live CD's, but all of them fail at some point
21:37
so maybe LTSP is the best thing to use. It ought to support my network hardware
21:38
<jammcq>
LTSP has been used for that in the past
21:38
<Schmao-Fmao>
That's the only thing I'm unsure about, as LTSP worked for my virtual machine, but my real machine has some relatively new network hardware that sometimes isn't reconized
21:38
<jammcq>
get on the ltsp-discuss mailing list and ask for others doing this
21:38J45p3r has quit IRC
21:38
<Schmao-Fmao>
mm, I should. First I should get off all the mailing lists that I don't read =D
21:38
I already get a lot of stuff in my mailbox
21:39
<jammcq>
well, LTSP on Ubuntu should have the latest drivers, so hardware compatibility shouldn't be a problem
21:39
<MacIver>
Schmao-Fmao: dells?
21:39
<Schmao-Fmao>
no, we built them from parts
21:39
they have an ASUS motherboard
21:39
<MacIver>
Schmao-Fmao: ah, i had some issues with new dells needing updated e1000
21:39
<Schmao-Fmao>
ah, I don't think the hardware is *that* new :)
21:40
It's supposed to be in kernels after 2.6.21
21:40
but the debian-live CD that I got to netboot has kernel version 2.6.18
21:41
<MacIver>
Schmao-Fmao: the edubuntu one is 2.6.22 iirc
21:42
<Schmao-Fmao>
Gotcha, so you're saying LTSP will probably work. :) That's good
21:42
I need to shuffle some things around, because LTSP seems to have modified my DHCP server
21:43
Ideally, I wouldn't have used LTSP .. It requires me to install quite a few things on my master node .. I would rather have gotten one of the live CD's to netboot properly
21:45
maybe LTSP is a better solution in the end
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21:57
<daniQ>
cliebow?
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