IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 17 September 2009   (all times are UTC)

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00:23
<nonix4>
Where's ltsp upstream source?
00:24
<stgraber>
on launchpad
00:24
<alkisg>
https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream
00:28
<cyberorg>
stgraber, hi, you did some work on "fatclient" recently, we have "ltsp-localapps icewm" selection available at ldm, what is the difference from that?
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00:28
<alkisg>
stgraber: is there any way to get previous releases from your ppa? E.g. I have 5.1.74 installed, and it has some problems with localapps, but the latest 5.1.85 is too different (not all teachers will be able to update the chroot). So I was looking to find an intermediate release, e.g. 5.1.75... is that possible?
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00:35
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: are you using the --wait feature? how does it know when the session is over?
00:36
cyberorg: i originally played with using ltsp-localapps to start a session, but i could never figure out a clean way to end the session.
00:38
cyberorg: essentially, the fatclient plugin uses the a lot of the localapps features, like the sshfs mounted home dir, group/uid updating, etc. but instead of running the session as a localapp, it just executes the session directly on the thin-client from LDM...
00:39
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, http://pastebin.com/d4cfe463
00:40
i think i tried --wait but it didn't work so the zenity hack
00:40
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: heh. i see how you handled the session :)
00:40
so the fatclient stuff will at least handle that less hackishly.
00:40
<cyberorg>
btw, it is part of hybrid live DVD/USB image too if you want to test
00:41
<vagrantc>
it also will likely have a slightly quicker startup time, as it's not waiting on the xatomwait polling for changes in state.
00:41
<cyberorg>
hackish yes, but at least i don't have to touch any ltsp code :)
00:41
<vagrantc>
not that that's a long wait compared to all other parts of the process, but a little cleaner overall
00:41
<cyberorg>
xatomwait waiting is hardly noticeable
00:44
does LDM now show option for local session too?
00:45
<vagrantc>
currently, it's a feature that's enabled with the LTSP_FATCLIENT variable ... so on or off ...
00:45
being able to select local or remote session would be a nice improvement
00:46
<cyberorg>
hmm, it would be nice if user can select if they want local or remote session at LDM like what i've done
00:46
<vagrantc>
it'll come.
00:46
<cyberorg>
cool :)
00:48
<alkisg>
vagrantc: johnny, Lns and me agree that it would be cool if a boot menu was presented to the ltsp clients by default: (1) netboot, (2) recovery boot (=no quiet splash and stuff), (3) memtest, (4) boot from local media.
00:48
What do you think? I'm more than willing to help with this...
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00:48
<vagrantc>
alkisg: most cool.
00:49
alkisg: i've already laid some groundwork for memtest
00:49
<alkisg>
So, could we include menu.c32 and memtest by default?
00:49
(in the tftpdir)
00:50
<cyberorg>
alkisg, we have something simple like that, not using menu.c32 just adding multiple stuff in pxelinux.cfg/default
00:50
<vagrantc>
although there's a bug in memtest which makes it annoying ... though i committed a partial workaround
00:51
<cyberorg>
alkisg, http://pastebin.com/d17728c08
00:51
<alkisg>
cyberorg: without menu.c32, is the user presented with a way to choose what to boot from that multiple stuff?
00:51
cyberorg: or is it an administrator setting?
00:51
<cyberorg>
alkisg, use can select
00:52
<alkisg>
cyberorg: ah, I think it's the same thing - except that if menu.c32 is there, the user also gets a "normal" curses-like menu...
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00:53
<cyberorg>
curses like menu will be nice, i never explored how to go about doing that
00:53
<alkisg>
cyberorg: you're 1 line and 1 file away :)
00:53
vagrantc: if you're interested, I could try to propose something like that... ?
00:54
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it's already mostly there
00:54
<cyberorg>
we've been using this menu since the beginning just 1 line/file away!!?
00:54
<alkisg>
vagrantc: ok, but can it be in the default installation? I think it would be really nice to have it...
00:54
cyberorg: yeap, let me see mine and compare...
00:54
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'll consider it for debian :)
00:55
<alkisg>
vagrantc: good man! Thanks a lot! :)
00:55
<johnny>
as long as we get a default and timeout of course..
00:55
<alkisg>
Sure. Default = ltsp, timeout = 5 or something low like that.
00:55
<vagrantc>
the menu generating code in there now uses timeout of 5
00:55
<alkisg>
Heh :)
00:55
<cyberorg>
alkisg, i think 100 is 10 seconds
00:55
<vagrantc>
long enough you can catch it if you're paying attention, short enough that it's not a huge delay
00:56
<nonix4>
attempting to boot karmic image built on jaunty, it complains that squashfs 3.1 is not supported?
00:56
<vagrantc>
yeah, for whatever insane reason, the syslinux folks decided they wanted to have 1/10th of a second precision.
00:56
<johnny>
you're supposed to rebuild images every distro upgrade nonix4
00:56
actually rebuild the chroot in general
00:56
what's that purge command now..
00:57* vagrantc would like to move towards a more upgradeable chroot
00:57
<nonix4>
johnny: well, want to test the unstable distro in ltsp without risking main installation first...
00:57
<vagrantc>
rather than always having to re-build it
00:57
<alkisg>
cyberorg: I think the only line you need is "DEFAULT menu.c32" - but here's mine to compare: http://paste.ubuntu.com/272562/
00:57
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, do what we do, provide online update of prebuilt image
00:57
<johnny>
nonix4, then copy it out of the way
00:57
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: no thanks :)
00:57
<johnny>
err mv it out the way
00:58
nonix4, the chroot *should* match the host distro version, that's just how it is
00:58
<nonix4>
so what is the point of --dist then?
00:59
<johnny>
i don't know.. :)
00:59
<klausade>
hey, I would like to add some options-lines to the Section "ServerLayout" on all my clients, to prevent theirs screens from doing a screenblank, I could give them a preconfigured xorg-file, or hack something togehter, but I wondered if there already is some "better" way of doing this? (oh, it's public library, and the users think the clients are out of order when the screen is blank)
01:00
<cyberorg>
alkisg, thanks, i think i have to replace message-ltsp with menu.c32 file
01:00
<alkisg>
nice :)
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01:02
<johnny>
klausade, i solved that by putting a piece of tape on the monitors
01:02
since i want them to turn off :)
01:03
i think there is some way to set the dpms off elsewhere than in the xorg.conf tho
01:03
<nonix4>
johnny: [off-topic] basically my real problem is that hardy/intrepid/jaunty have already eaten up all the primary partition slots for /boot on the server host, and can't dump intrepid out of the way before karmic is released & tested... but wanting to test it on the diskless clients anyway (mainly for hw compatibility issues)
01:04
<johnny>
oh..
01:04
sorry
01:04
unless you wanna upgrade the kernel (i think) manually
01:04
to try to support the newest squash
01:04
or maybe it's just newer verisons than what are in intrepid
01:05
nonix4, wouldn't it be easier to do it in a virtual machine tho?
01:05
i did my ltsp server devel on a virtual machine
01:05
virtualbox to be specific.. and just let them boot off that instead
01:06
<alkisg>
johnny, how do you handle the tftp dir in this case? Vbox can't use ports < 1024, can it?
01:06
<nonix4>
hmm, sounds reasonable approach... think I'll try kvm, being more familiar with that... thanks :)
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01:06
<johnny>
alkisg, uhmm.. worked for me..
01:06
i think
01:06
<alkisg>
johnny: maybe you had vm clients? Or, a tftp server in the real hw?
01:06
<johnny>
did that too
01:07
pretty sure i ran tftp server in there
01:07
but not dhcp
01:07
it was it's own ip
01:07
it was like a totally different machine to the rest of the network
01:07
my memory is fuzzy tho.. it was over a year ago
01:08
even if that didn't work.. just copy the initrd stuff..
01:08
to your real server
01:08
<alkisg>
Yup I used my real server's tftp server, so I managed.
01:08
I didn't check if I could actually do it in vbox or not; I just read so in the manual
01:08
<cyberorg>
alkisg, that was it, there seems to be GUI also http://syslinux.zytor.com/wiki/index.php/Menu
01:09
<alkisg>
cyberorg: yes, vesamenu.c32. You might want to check the opensuse cd to get the splash screen from there
01:09
...and all the code :)
01:09
<cyberorg>
we have our own branding :)
01:10
<alkisg>
(syslinux and pxelinux have about the same instructions)
01:15* nonix4 ponders how to unsquashfs + mksquashfs with arguments that result in same contents for the re-squashed fs...
01:15
<johnny>
don't boether unsquashing
01:15
just quash the chroot
01:16
i forgoet the proper args.. butt they are probably in the shell scripts for ltsp
01:16
nonix4, look in ltsp-update-image
01:16
it's just a shell script
01:17
<nonix4>
well, seems to only have "-e cdrom" as args :)
01:18
<johnny>
mksquashfs ?
01:19
nonix4, are you looking in the code?
01:19
i see this in the fedora one
01:19
mksquashfs /opt/ltsp/$arch/ $TMPNAME -ef /usr/share/ltsp/mksquashfs-exclude -wildcards
01:19
you just wanna do that.. and replace the vars
01:20
<nonix4>
well ubuntu seems to only exclude the cdrom dir, so basically equivalent to that
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01:23
<alkisg>
nonix4: btw, you could also move one of your primary partitions in an extended one, so that you could have more than 4...
01:24
<johnny>
ah ok
01:24
i didn't look at that file
01:24
so there ya go..
01:24
<nonix4>
alkisg: don't really trust the boot loaders to be bugfree enough for that :)
01:24
<alkisg>
nonix4: I do - both grub legacy and grub2 worked fine in all cases for me
01:25
It's the windows loader that has problems :)
01:25
<johnny>
nonix4, grub is super reliable ..
01:25
been using basically the same version since 2002 :)
01:25
that's reliable :)
01:25
lol
01:25
<nonix4>
well the lack of trust for boot loaders is indeed inherited from lilo...
01:25
<alkisg>
Heh :)
01:25
<johnny>
now in karmic..
01:25
it'll be using grub2.. first popular distro to do so
01:25
even before fedora suprisingly
01:26
<alkisg>
johnny: grub2 is much better for dual boot setups involving windows...
01:26
It's so nice I even use it in jaunthy :)
01:27* nonix4 has all partitions of type fd except the lonely 85 for extended...
01:27
<alkisg>
The only thing that bothers me in grub2 is that it has the configuration files in /etc/grub.d (that's a good thing) but they change too often... (ok karmic is still beta)
01:28
So on every upgrade I have to tell him that I want the package maintainer's version :-/
01:28* nonix4 practically always chooses the "experimental" three way merge
01:29
<johnny>
i only choose 3 way merge when i actually changed it..
01:30
i'm used to this from gentoo tho
01:30
packagekit doesn't seem to give you merging options tho :(
01:30
packagekit gui shoudl be more like ubuntu update gui
01:40
<cyberorg>
alkisg, vesamenu.c32 :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyberorg/3928426296/sizes/o/
01:40
alkisg, config file http://pastebin.com/d1904c88d
01:41
this looks so much like we are in 21st century
01:42
<alkisg>
cyberorg: great!!! vagrantc, could we have something like this pretty please?!! :) :) :)
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01:57* stgraber already has that at the office :) Netinstall for everything from Dapper to Karmic (i386 and amd64) + LTSP on jaunty and karmic + a test chroot with fat client
01:57
<stgraber>
all in one PXE menu auto-generated every night to get the updates (new kernel and stuff like that)
01:57
anyway, got to go, it's late here.
02:00
<alkisg>
stgraber: please put that in ltsp :)
02:00
<vagrantc>
alkisg: just specify PXELINUX_DEFAULT=vesamenu
02:00
<alkisg>
good night :)
02:00
vagrantc: I know, I'm not requesting this for me
02:01
<vagrantc>
although the automatic theme is another story.
02:01
<alkisg>
Is there any reason for all ltsp uses not to have it?
02:01
(at least debian/ubuntu ltsp users :))
02:01
<vagrantc>
we should come up with a default theme for ltsp, sure.
02:02
though it doesn't work in the virtualbox version i do most of my testing with ... so i'll have to use physical thin clients to test
02:02
<alkisg>
It doesn't? It does work in my vbox cilents...
02:03* alkisg has to go to school... bye all :)
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02:08
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, that screencap is from vbox session
02:09
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: surely a newer version
02:09* vagrantc still uses 1.6
02:09
<cyberorg>
ah :)
02:10
<johnny>
vagrantc, try uhm.. a new version
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02:10
<johnny>
why are you using that old thing?
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02:12
<vagrantc>
because i don't have to upgraded it every couple weeks.
02:13
and it works for 99% of what i need it to work for
02:13* vagrantc is a debian/stable user
02:14
<Ahmuck_Sr>
i remember 1.6. i think that was the year of woodstock
02:14
*snicker*
02:16
<johnny>
debian stable?
02:16
don't yo urealize you run open source for the rest of us?
02:16
ruin*
02:21
<nonix4>
Well while debian stable may be updated on slightly more glacial pace than typical linux distributions, it is still far more up to date than just about any commercial *IX, which tend to lag behind couple decades at least.
02:22
<johnny>
nonix4, and?
02:22
has not much to do.. since those aren't as open
02:23
at some point it will matter less.. as the components settle down
02:23
altho debian stable isn't as bad as trying to support older rhel
02:23
like pidgin does
02:23
they were using custom widgets that had already been merged upstream to gtk
02:23
stuff that was already stable in debian stable even
02:24
nonix4, if debian decoupled releases for arches.. it probably wouldn't be that big of a deal for x86/amd64/arm
02:24
debian could do a stable release probably once every 18 months even
02:24
perhaps even sooner..
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02:40
<vagrantc>
johnny: arches are hardly a major problem for release
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03:25
<chrisjrob>
upgraded our debian lenny server yesterday, we were already on the debian backports packages, it updated to the most recent ltsp backports packages, now clients cannot boot - just sits at TFTP... i have checked that tftpd is listening on port 69. any advice gratefully appreciated.
03:28
i should add that they do eventually time out with "PXE-E32: TFTP open timeout"
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04:28
<sep>
chrisjrob, do you see anything in the tftp server log ? double check dhcp that it have the right config. ? run tcpdump/wireshark to see what the client is actualy trying to do/reach
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04:47
<chrisjrob>
sep: thanks, "tftp: client does not accept options"
04:48
dhcpd.conf all looks good
04:48
<ogra>
that means your client connected successfully
04:49
and told the server it doesnt accept options (which is true and ok)
04:50
<chrisjrob>
curious and not in a good way
04:50
i will run tcpdump
04:54
0:52:28.454675 IP 192.168.0.69.2070 > 192.168.0.17.69: 38 RRQ "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0" octet tsize 0
04:54
10:52:28.455829 IP 192.168.0.69.2071 > 192.168.0.17.69: 43 RRQ "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0" octet blksize 1456
04:54
10:53:04.487111 IP 192.168.0.69.2072 > 192.168.0.17.69: 43 ACK block 0
04:54
<ogra>
looks fine to me
04:55
<chrisjrob>
could i update the pxelinux.0 file somehow?
04:56
actually it has updated, this morning already, must have been when i ran the update kernels cmd
04:57
<ogra>
ltsp-update-kernels should copy it freshly from the chroot
05:09
<sep>
chrisjrob, is that ACK block 0 the last line ?
05:09
sounds like you may have some eddies in the config.
05:11
i had a similar issue once, with the same error. and this was simply a given client could not work with my pxelinux vesameny config. so i tested with a very simple config, with just 1 default entry with kernel and append. adn that worked. so i just made that subnet use the simple config.
05:11
ymmv
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06:08
<chrisjrob>
sep and gadi thanks for your help, the problem ended up to be caused by an unnecessary mtu line in /etc/network/interfaces, the post-updates reboot yesterday had brought that line into use
06:09
s/gadi/ogra/ <-- sorry!
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06:32
<din_os>
why does creating a user using adduser command fails to make a valid thin client user?
06:32
works fine if I add users using the GUI user manager
06:33
<chrisjrob>
din_os: you could have a look at the groups on a user that is working and make sure same groups are on new user?
06:34
<din_os>
I am thinking it might be ssh related. .. do I need to add some keys somewhere related? (using lenny, NFS)
06:36
groups seem to be fine (unless there are some kind of hidden system groups I am not aware of)
06:36
<ogra>
din_os, man adduser
06:36
--add_extra_groups is what you want
06:36
<chrisjrob>
well i've just added a new user with adduser and it worked fine (on lenny)
06:36
<ogra>
chrisjrob, sound and local devices ?
06:37
you need the fuse and audio groups for that in debian
06:37
<chrisjrob>
probably not, but that wasn't din_os's problem, or was it?
06:37
<din_os>
ogra, ok I'll try that and look further into --add_extra_groups
06:37
<chrisjrob>
it let me log in anyway
06:38
<ogra>
yes, you should be able to log in in any case
06:38
<din_os>
btw, what are these extra groups? I added the fuse group manually btw still no go
06:38
<chrisjrob>
what are the symptoms din_os
06:39
<din_os>
chrisjrob, the client checks pass for 1/2 a minute. then restarts login screen
06:40
but hold on, I'll try with --add-extra-groups
06:40
<chrisjrob>
it that a login to a normal linux desktop, or a login to rdesktop or other screen script?
06:40
<ogra>
grep extra_groups /usr/share/perl5/Debian/AdduserCommon.pm
06:41
should show you which ones it will add with that option
06:41
but it wont help if you cant log in at all
06:41
the groups are only for the additional features
06:41
normal login should work without any groups
06:41
<din_os>
I can login locally, just not using thin client
06:42
<ogra>
ssh localhost ?
06:42
<din_os>
ok ok let me try plz, but a note here, I haven't added any of these groups using the GUI (just fuse), but logs in fine remotely... :?
06:43
<ogra>
yes, as i (and chrisjrob) said already, you dont need groups for normal login
06:43
<din_os>
well does ltsp takes care of ssh keys upon user creation?
06:43
<ogra>
they are only used for additional features like sound or local device access
06:43
no
06:44
it uses passwords, no user keys are used
06:44
and your host keys seem to be ok if you can log in with other users
06:45
<chrisjrob>
din_os: are you using any screen scripts, e.g. rdesktop?
06:45
<din_os>
not sure what you mean, it's mostly vanilla ltsp
06:45
<chrisjrob>
then you won't be
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06:46
<din_os>
I've logged in as the "good" user and typing groups doesn't show any of these extra groups anyway
06:46
<chrisjrob>
it's not a groups issue
06:47
<din_os>
I kind of thing so too... but let me try... do I type adduser --add_extra_groups then follow instructions?
06:48
<chrisjrob>
i've never used that switch, but i assume you just list the groups after it
06:48
but as i say, i can login on a new user with no groups
06:48
and i'm on lenny as well
06:49
<din_os>
success! :? weird though
06:49
<chrisjrob>
one thing i would say is that if you get the password wrong, it doesn't tell you so, it just cycles back to the login
06:50
<din_os>
yeah I know that... I think I will remove these groups one by one see what's wrong
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06:51
<chrisjrob>
din_os: are you using the lenny packages or the lenny-backports packages?
06:52
<din_os>
hmm, yeah, forgot to mention that :P, I've got a backport kernel 2.29 (i think)
06:53
but only the kernel
06:53
<chrisjrob>
i'm on the lenny-backports packages and they are very nice
06:53
for ltsp that is
06:53
<din_os>
and selected apps, xchat, amsn, emesene.. stuff that don't depend on important system packages
06:53
<chrisjrob>
http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto/Lenny-With-Backports
06:54
you probably want these i would imagine
06:55
<din_os>
(bookmark added: thx)
06:55
<chrisjrob>
i can't remember what the problems are with lenny's packages,
06:55
but i know that there /are/ problems
06:55
possibly with sound
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07:27
<hipy>
Darn dudes this is genius
07:27
But can you manage clients
07:27
like check if they are on there schoolproject instead of playing games
07:27
and log them off etc
07:27
:p
07:36
<ogra>
have a look at iTalc
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07:40
<hipy>
is that an app that i must install via apt-get?
07:40
:p
07:41
<ogra>
yes, the docs have a howto, italc.sourceforge.net has screenshots etc
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07:59
<DavidNN>
Is it possible to use the linux terminal server from a windows desktop.
08:00
I want to set up a linux terminal server that offers firefox for secure browsing from a windows machine network
08:00
<sep>
yes, using xming and putty you can easily log on the linux machine and run grafical programs
08:00
<hipy>
How??/
08:00
With putty?
08:01
Sep can you please explain how i do that
08:01
:
08:01
<sep>
hipy, install xming on linux, and start it
08:01
hipy, run putty, select your machine makesure SSH/X11 forwarding is enabeled (in the tree meny)
08:02
<hipy>
xming?
08:02
:s
08:02
<sep>
logon linux machine and type oowriter (or whatever program)
08:02
install xming on windows i mean
08:02
<hipy>
ok
08:02
But how can you run x then
08:02
:S
08:02
<chrisjrob>
an alternative is freenx server on the server and nomachine nxclient on the pc
08:02
<sep>
there is also a xming+putty package but i find it simpler to have them separate
08:02
yes then you get the whole desktop
08:03
<hipy>
ok
08:03
<chrisjrob>
but gives you the added benefit of remote access
08:03
over low bandwidth connections
08:04
<sep>
we use that as well with the web client
08:04
<hipy>
webclient
08:04
<sep>
browse to a webpage with a java enabeled browser
08:04
type in username+password
08:04
and you get your kde desktop
08:04
<chrisjrob>
sep: haven't been brave enough for that - i always vpn
08:04
<sep>
works on windows/linux/mac
08:04
<hipy>
Must the pc with the windows be wired behind the ltsp server or just in the lan network
08:04
:p
08:04
<sep>
chrisjrob, nx is over ssh, and you can use your own keys
08:05
the pc with windows must reach the linux in some way across the network. i putty into ltsp from home and run programs regularly.
08:05
<chrisjrob>
sep: you're right, for some reason i trust vpn more than ssh, i don't have the knowledge to know either way
08:05
<sep>
over lowbandwith lines turning on ssh complression elevates the issues some.
08:05
<DavidNN>
say I just want the clients on the windows network to acces the browser (firefox) not the whole desktop, is that possible to?
08:06
<hipy>
sep so the pc doesnt have to be conencted to the second network card?
08:06
<sep>
vpn or ssh is moot the security problem is the teachers :)
08:06
<hipy>
xming is an xserver
08:06
and then you conenct to shell with putty
08:06
<sep>
as long as you can putty to the server it does not matter where it is
08:06
<hipy>
what command do u use to get x
08:06
<sep>
hipy, you just run the program you want. eg tuxeyes or firefox
08:07
<hipy>
and then the x server starts?
08:07
:s
08:07
<sep>
you start xming before starting putty ususlay
08:08
<hipy>
ok lets test it
08:08
xming is running
08:08
<sep>
make sure xforwarding is on in putty
08:08
<hipy>
ok
08:08
<sep>
under ssh X11
08:08
then connect
08:08
you can also use sux - username
08:08
<hipy>
and the x location
08:08
or isnt that needed
08:09
<sep>
i do it to login as myself on ltsp server. then run sux to change to a user with problem to toubleshoot his enviorment without needing his password
08:09
no
08:09
just the forward
08:09
button thing
08:09
<hipy>
ok
08:09
puttyt uns
08:10
now what i do:p
08:10
<sep>
you have tuxeyes installed ? it's what i allways use to test :)
08:10
<hipy>
whats that
08:10
Lol
08:10
tuxeyes
08:10
:p;
08:11
how do i get the desktop infront
08:11
:s
08:11
<sep>
a program that shows 2 silly eyes on the screen :P
08:11
<hipy>
can i start firefox as replacement:p
08:11
<sep>
you don't you just start the individual programs
08:11
yes
08:11
<hipy>
ok i start now firefox
08:11
I hear my server is being busy
08:11
heh
08:11
wow
08:11
wtf:D
08:11
<sep>
if you type firefox & you can start more programs
08:11
or you can ctrl+z
08:12
to pause firefox
08:12
and then bg to background it
08:12
(in the putty window)
08:12
then you can start oowriter or kwriter or whatever you use
08:13
<hipy>
OK
08:13
what is sux btw
08:13
:s
08:13
<sep>
or you can swap to a different user and run firefox there as well if you want to compare how firefox works on 2 different users
08:13
let you change to a different user
08:13
aptitude install sux
08:13
with X forwarding maintained
08:13
same as su :)
08:13
with x
08:13
sudo sux - problemuser
08:13
and you can run grafical programs as this user
08:15
<hipy>
ok
08:15
do you know italc?
08:15
<sep>
if you want the whole desktop you can perhaps run xnest
08:15
not very no
08:16
<_UsUrPeR_>
hipy: are you sure you're just deploying a single thinclient in your home?
08:16
because it seems like you're going... bigger
08:17
<hipy>
Lawl
08:17
I wanna try italc:p
08:18
<_UsUrPeR_>
well go for it then
08:19
<hipy>
but i cant find uot if you isntall italc
08:19
if you ned to install on every computer a client
08:20
<chrisjrob>
hipy: if you're using ltsp you really only have one client
08:21
<hipy>
heh?
08:21
:P
08:22
<chrisjrob>
with ltsp all your clients are using the same client image, so it you can install italc in the client image, it will be on every client
08:23
<hipy>
ok
08:23
well
08:23
lets test:D
08:24
<chrisjrob>
it isn't a trivial installation, so good luck!
08:24Gadi has joined #ltsp
08:24
<hipy>
its apt-get install:p
08:25
<chrisjrob>
or at least it isn't trivial for debian, perhaps your distro will be easier
08:26
<zamba>
how do i bring up a local terminal?
08:26
a local x terminal, that is
08:27
<sep>
what do you mean with local terminal ? you allready have putty ?
08:27
or just run konsole in putty to get another one
08:27
<ogra>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc
08:27
<zamba>
there's a command i can run that will give me a local terminal
08:27
<sep>
zamba, sorrry i thought it was hipy asking
08:27
<zamba>
alkisg gave me the command a couple of weeks ago
08:27
but i can't remember it now
08:28
<chrisjrob>
/usr/bin/ltsp-localapps xterm ?
08:28
<zamba>
ah
08:28
that's the one
08:28
chrisjrob: thanks :)
08:28
<chrisjrob>
np
08:29
<zamba>
i also need help debugging my strange problem with pulseaudio
08:29
whenever i start the thin client and log in, i'm able to play sound for a couple of minutes max
08:29
then pulseaudio dies
08:30
<hipy>
ogra that ubuntu docs are very cool and written in a way you can understand it perfect :D
08:30
<zamba>
if i don't play music, it stays up
08:30
it can stay up forever, as long as i just don't play any music
08:30
<chrisjrob>
zamba: what app are you playing music?
08:30
<hipy>
what is chroot?
08:30
:S
08:30
<zamba>
chrisjrob: i've tried totem and mplayer so far
08:30
<chrisjrob>
localapp or on the server?
08:31
<zamba>
on the server
08:32
<chrisjrob>
not a problem i've encountered and i am using mplayer
08:32bftherese has joined #ltsp
08:33
<zamba>
chrisjrob: it plays perfectly for a while, but suddenly dies..
08:33
chrisjrob: then i have to restart the thin client to get sound - until it crashes again
08:33
<bftherese>
I am having problems printing from local apps to a shared usb printer
08:34
in local-apps openoffice for example, the job gets sent (apparently) and once the last page has been sent, it pops up and says: "error during print"
08:35
<zamba>
chrisjrob: played for about two minutes and then this: AO: [pulse] Connection died: Connection terminated
08:35
and no pulseaudio process running
08:36
<bftherese>
printing from non-local apps works just fine
08:36
<chrisjrob>
zamba: i think others will be better able to help, but what distro are you using?
08:36
<zamba>
chrisjrob: jaunty
08:36
<alkisg>
zamba, did you try with any other sound cards / other clients etc to see if it's a server or a client driver problem?
08:36
<zamba>
alkisg: yup
08:37
alkisg: tried with three different computers
08:37
<alkisg>
So it's a server problem?
08:37
<zamba>
alkisg: all experiencing the same
08:37
it plays perfectly for a while, but then dies abruptly
08:37
<alkisg>
zamba: you had something weird in your setup, what was it? the server runs in a vm?
08:38
<bftherese>
I have to go, but hopefully someone who knows about cups and localapps will be around later
08:39
<zamba>
alkisg: yup
08:39
alkisg: runs on xen
08:39bftherese has quit IRC
08:40
<alkisg>
zamba, and no pulseaudio logs that would help locate the problem?
08:43
<zamba>
where do i find that?
08:43
<alkisg>
I don't know, but I'd guess in the client...
08:48
zamba: I see in the code that pulseaudio is started with --log-target=syslog, so you should see the client logs (or redirect the client syslog to the server)
08:49
<zamba>
here's the different output of lspci: http://pastebin.com/m6608faf2
08:49
all intel-based soundcards
08:50
hm.. could my kvm switch cause this?
08:50
creating an interrupt or something that causes the pulseaudio to crash?
08:54
strange thing is that it's so random
08:54
now it has played for 400 seconds without problems
08:55
<_UsUrPeR_>
hipy: follow this italc documentation: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc
08:59
<hipy>
;p
09:01
question: why cant a thin client add users?
09:01
:S
09:03
<zamba>
hipy: what do you mean?
09:03
<chrisjrob>
hipy: the thin client is only a mechanism for getting to the server, it is separate to the server, and is read only. users you create on the thin client will be lost when you reboot, and will in any case not be available on the server
09:03
<sbalneav>
hipy: ConsoleKit doesn't seem to interact well with LTSP
09:04
It's an outstanding problem.
09:04
You can either:
09:04
1) Add users from the command line, or
09:04
2) Use the server's console to add users.
09:04
<zamba>
alkisg: how do i see the client syslog?
09:04
alkisg: since i need to be root for that
09:05
i guess i have to set a root pwd
09:05
<alkisg>
zamba: or set SCREEN_02=shell
09:05
and SCREEN_07=ldm
09:06
<zamba>
what does SCREEN_07=ldm really do?
09:06
i understand SCREEN_02=shell, but not the other
09:06
<sbalneav>
It launches the LTSP Display Manager (i.e. the graphical login window) on screen 07
09:06
<alkisg>
I think that if you define SCREEN_02, then SCREEN_07 is empty by default, so you won't have ldm. But I may be wrong in that...
09:06
<zamba>
doesn't it do that already?
09:06
<hipy>
chrisjrob why then when i made a map on the desktop and i reboot cleint ant login
09:06
its stil there
09:06
:p
09:06
<zamba>
aha, ok
09:08
<hipy>
or has that nothing to do with it
09:09
<chrisjrob>
hipy: once you log in you are effectively on the server not on the client, anything you do on the server will survive reboots
09:10
but i may not be understanding your question correctly
09:12
<hipy>
hmm
09:12
i need some help
09:12
i have a laptop
09:12
but when i press stasrt
09:12
you see the caps/scrooll/num lock lights flicker very softly
09:12
and then it stops
09:12
the pc wont go on
09:13
<_UsUrPeR_>
sounds like a hardware issue
09:13
<sbalneav>
Sounds like a hardware problem
09:13
<zamba>
alkisg: nothing in the logs
09:13
<sbalneav>
Phone tech support.
09:13
<zamba>
alkisg: is syslog even started locally?
09:13
<sbalneav>
Maybe you need a new battery/power brick
09:13
<alkisg>
zamba, yes, didn't you see some files in /var/log ?
09:14
<zamba>
alkisg: sure, i saw some files.. but syslog was empty.. same with kern.log
09:14
<_UsUrPeR_>
zamba: about screen_07=ldm: if you don't ut that in, I don't believe you will get a login screen on the client after boot
09:14
<alkisg>
zamba, there's also an option to use the server's syslog remotely, check the ltsp docs...
09:14
<hipy>
ok found a solution you have to press on the keyboard;p
09:15chrisjrob has left #ltsp
09:15
<sbalneav>
Well, that's not really a solution :) You'll permanently break something that way.
09:17
<zamba>
alkisg: yeah, trying that now
09:18
<hipy>
Nope sbalneav i pressed on keyboard very softley( keys went down but thats it )
09:18
weird
09:18
dell latitude d600
09:20
<zamba>
alkisg: only one log file is created, and that's daemon.log
09:21
<hipy>
hmm error
09:22
I get a weird error on the desktop
09:22
<alkisg>
zamba: that's as far as I can go... :-/
09:22
<hipy>
oafid:GNOME_FastuserSwitchAplet
09:22
problem with loading
09:23garymc has quit IRC
09:23
<hipy>
and godmanit i cant find the other pc that i added in the ltsp
09:23
:S
09:41
hmm software not in bev locator
09:41
:s
09:43
is each client that connects assing its own ip?
09:46
heh all clients get same ip?:S
09:46
1 laptop has 0.22 and the other 0.254
09:46
o0
09:46
Doesnt make sense
09:48wallabybob has quit IRC
09:50
<sbalneav>
hipy: The server usually sits on 192.168.0.254, which is the "highest" address on the subnet.
09:51
by default, the dhcp server on the ltsp server usually hands out addresses in the .20 -> .250 range.
09:52
From my /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf:
09:52
subnet 192.168.0.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 { range 192.168.0.20 192.168.0.250;
09:52
So that's perfectly normal
09:52warren has joined #ltsp
09:52
<warren>
tagging ltsp-trunk soon
09:55
tagging
09:55
<hipy>
weh weert
09:55
sbalneav i have 2 computers connectet
09:55
2 laptops
09:55
1 has 0.20
09:55
and other has 0/254
09:55
and that isnt the server
09:55
S:
09:56
<sbalneav>
What's handing out your dhcp addresses?
09:56
<hipy>
is theerr a command to see wich clients are connected with what ips
09:56
erm
09:56
the dhcp server?
09:56
o0
09:56
<sbalneav>
The LTSP server, or your little dlink box?
09:56
<hipy>
erm
09:56
my ltsp server hands out to the clients
09:56
Wait
09:57
ok if you do ifconfig you cant see wich ip the client has
09:57
ahh ogc
09:57
its 254 its the server im on
09:57
how can i know the ip of the connected client?
09:57* ogra steals warren's tag and runs around the room laughing
09:58
<sbalneav>
hipy: Well, usually it's printed on the lower right in the login window
09:58warren has quit IRC
09:58
<hipy>
ah
09:58
ARG im getting crazy here why does nothing works
09:58
<sbalneav>
If you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, it's also your DISPLAY environment variable.
09:59
What, exactly, isn't working?
09:59
<hipy>
how do you delete somethign with apt-get
09:59
I try to get italc workig
09:59
<sbalneav>
apt-get purge
10:00
<hipy>
he
10:00
locked
10:00
how the
10:00
<sbalneav>
So, the thin client's working? It's just iTalc that's not?
10:00
<hipy>
Thats imposible
10:00
yes
10:00
thats the prob
10:00
but now i get cant remove
10:00
:S
10:00
locked is other process using it
10:00
<sbalneav>
Well, you may have an update going on in the background.
10:00
<hipy>
no it ait
10:00
aint
10:00
<sbalneav>
update-manager may be updating the package list.
10:01
<hipy>
h
10:01
wait
10:01
ok if it now doesnt work ima scream
10:01
<sbalneav>
You don't have to type "wait" all the time.
10:01
<hipy>
90\35890834989034
10:01
:(
10:01
<sbalneav>
If you don't type something, we wait by default.
10:01* hipy cries. stupid italc!
10:02
<hipy>
ok
10:02
Its so stupid i can see the pc where i started the italc master thing( to control pcs ) and i can view my own pc. but when i added an other pc i cant spec it
10:02
meh
10:03
<sbalneav>
I'm not familiar with iTalc, I don't use it to manage my thin clients.
10:03
<hipy>
what do u use
10:03
i mean if you use it in an office enviroment how do yuo offer support to users
10:03
:S
10:03
<sbalneav>
I use LTSP in a Government law office.
10:04
<hipy>
How is support offert
10:04
like a user doenst know how to excecute a function, can the support user look at the client that has problems and use remote control etc?
10:04
<sbalneav>
What support? What is it you're wanting iTalc to do? I just use command line tools to manage my users.
10:04
<hipy>
So you cant view what they view atm:S
10:05
<sbalneav>
No, I don't need to.
10:05staffencasa has joined #ltsp
10:06
<hipy>
btw if you have a user caled john and he saves his personal stuff into his desktop
10:06
and he logs out
10:06
will it be there when he logs in again?
10:06
<sbalneav>
Yes.
10:06
Of course: it's on the server.
10:06
<hipy>
ok
10:06
:p
10:06
O well
10:06
i atleast got ltsp running
10:06Treyh_ has joined #ltsp
10:06
<hipy>
I was affraid that the dhcp server of the ubuntu ltsp server would screw up the range etc but the ltsp clients are in a whole diffrent network:D
10:07
<sbalneav>
Did you *read* the document list I've been posting to you over the last 2-3 days? It actually explains the whole process of how the desktop is displayed.
10:07
<hipy>
meh why ALWAYS when i put on my server my thin clients cant connect so i have to hoo up my monitor to that server to check what is wrong and then there is nothing wrong
10:07
erm
10:07
well
10:07* hipy whistles
10:07
<hipy>
:p
10:07
<Treyh_>
sbalneav: will you link that document I'd like to read it
10:08
<hipy>
Yay now it works
10:08* hipy doesnt dare to turn on the splash screen again :<
10:08
<sbalneav>
!docs
10:08
<ltspbot`>
sbalneav: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
10:08
<sbalneav>
Treyh_: ^^
10:09
<Treyh_>
sbalneav, thank you
10:09
sbalneav, a while back my laptop crashed and I lost all my notes/links and etc
10:10
the log of our chats here has been awesome also
10:11
<hipy>
can sombody tell me: if the battery on the motherboard is empty. would that involve problems with turning on the pc( i have to press like 15times on before my server actually powers up. else nothing happens )
10:11
<Treyh_>
hipy, so the battery is missing on the server or on the pc?
10:12
<hipy>
the server, its on but i think its empty
10:12
since it is hard to even turn on the server
10:12
<Treyh_>
hipy, so you think the battery is missing or you just assume that it is?
10:13
<hipy>
...
10:13
read: EMPTY
10:13
:p
10:13
<Treyh_>
hipy, I also read "its on but i think its empty"
10:14
<hipy>
empty isnt missing? :D
10:14
<Treyh_>
hipy, that battery helps the motherboard keep its config....what speed of cpu/memory and etc. won't hurt performance or anything if the mboard is okay with the defaults but you should look into replacing it. just pull the battery out of a dead pc you have, should work
10:15
<hipy>
OK so thats the problem my server has trouble going on
10:15
<Treyh_>
hipy, you said "you think", you weren't clear so I just wanted to verify
10:15
<hipy>
ok:)
10:15
well withouth a battery it doesnt go on at all
10:15
but it still starts
10:15
its like the pc charges it
10:15
if i didnt use it for a long time it doesnt go on
10:15
but like i turn the pc off
10:16
it restarts instant
10:16
:p
10:17
<sbalneav>
For the amount of time that's been spent discussing this, you could have simply replaced the battery by now.
10:17
<hipy>
:P:
10:17
LOL*
10:18
<Treyh_>
sbalneav, amen
10:19
<hipy>
!docs
10:19
<ltspbot`>
hipy: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
10:19Selveste1 has quit IRC
10:22
<hipy>
=]
10:29Selveste1 has joined #ltsp
10:31
<hipy>
ubuntu updates 395 updates to install
10:31* hipy is afraid
11:14Selveste1 has quit IRC
11:26johnny has left #ltsp
11:28
<_UsUrPeR_>
ignoew a83-163-100-71.adsl.xs4all.nl
11:28
whoops...
11:28
<hipy>
omfg
11:28
_UsUrPeR_ excuse me?
11:29
What is this kind of behaviour?
11:29
And you guys are saying i am not behaving???? Sombody starts ignoring me from nothing out and posts my hostname?
11:30
<ltsppbot>
"asdf" pasted "asdf" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/508
11:30
<hipy>
_UsUrPeR_
11:31
k fine....
11:31
idiot
11:31
<ltsppbot>
"asdf" pasted "asdf" (34 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/509
11:31johnny has joined #ltsp
11:33CAN-o-SPAM has joined #ltsp
11:46
<hipy>
lol
11:46
;p
11:49
<Treyh_>
hipy: this room is for helping ppl, not fighting and arguing
11:50
<hipy>
I understand but i find it disrespectfull and rude to post sombodys hostname in the channal + that the person starts ignoring me wihtouth reason
11:51fotanus has joined #ltsp
11:51
<johnny>
hostname.. we all know your hostname just by you joining.. :)
11:52
<Treyh_>
hipy, let me explain again, this room is for helping, not for arguing and fighting
12:00
<johnny>
CAN-o-SPAM, i just recommended your diskless workstations to somebody on our lug list
12:00
<CAN-o-SPAM>
johnny: thanks very much ... which unit and to who?
12:01
<johnny>
nothing specific
12:01
i just told them to look at your stuff
12:01
and recommended some basic specs
12:01
for local apps and not
12:01
<CAN-o-SPAM>
ok thanks for taking the hardware consulting part out of it for us :)
12:02
<Treyh_>
CAN-o-SPAM, do you guys offer discount prices for education?
12:02
<CAN-o-SPAM>
P.S on the LTSP Term 1220 & LTSP Term 1225 we are offering a free upgrade from 256MB -> 512MB while supplies last
12:03
Treyh_: sure we always try and do what we can to help maximize thin clients per budget :)
12:08
<hipy>
what else is a solution about controling thin clients ( log off, view there desktop send message or something ) italc doesnt seem to work
12:10
<Treyh_>
hipy, so you want to remotely be able to view their desktops and have lan messaging?
12:13
hipy, are you using ldm or rdesktop?
12:16
<hipy>
erm
12:16
ltsp
12:16
via pxe network boot
12:16
:p
12:16
is that ldm?
12:16
<Treyh_>
hipy, when the client boots, does it come up to a ubuntu gnome login?
12:17
<hipy>
well gnome login
12:17
its diffrent from standart
12:17
<Treyh_>
hipy, yes thats ldm
12:17
<hipy>
:p
12:17
i see ltsp ( ip ) // time bottom right
12:18
<Treyh_>
hipy, yes thats ldm
12:18
what distro are you using? debian ubuntu?
12:18
<hipy>
ok:)
12:18
ubuntu
12:18
<Treyh_>
version?
12:18
<hipy>
8.10
12:18
:)
12:18
alternate - desktop
12:20
<Treyh_>
check out http://edubuntu.org/
12:20
it's an addon software that goes with ltsp/ubuntu
12:20
it has additional software like viewnig remote desktops of users and lan messengers
12:20
<hipy>
Wow
12:20
hmm how i install that ontop of my operating system
12:20
:S
12:20
i alread have ubuntu
12:21
Does edubuntu have ltsp standard included at instalation( press f4 to select what kind of isntlation including ltsp just like alternate cd )
12:22
<ftherese>
hello, I am having problems printing on a client-side usb printer from local-applications such as open office and abi word
12:22
server-side applications work fine, but not the localapps
12:22
<hipy>
hmm i dont know how to solve but i may have an idea. make a printer connected to the server
12:22
all clients print
12:22
and it comes out 1 printer
12:23
that is located at a special location
12:23
:)
12:23
<Treyh_>
hipy, edubuntu is an addon that you add to your existing ltsp server
12:23
hipy, it's also nice that you want to help but if you don't know the answer, simply don't answer
12:23
<ftherese>
actually, I have a wine localapp installed, and it prints find
12:23
<fine>
12:23
<Treyh_>
ftherese, do you have cups installed as a local app?
12:24
<hipy>
:O , ok :(
12:25
<alkisg>
Treyh_: edubuntu actually offers italc again...
12:25
<ftherese>
Treyh_, as far as I know, yes... the printer shows up in the menu for printing, and the pages get sent to the printer, it counts them on the screen like it is sending them, but then it says error
12:25shawnp0wers1 has quit IRC
12:26
<hipy>
you know what is the problem with italc. I connected 2 thinclients. on 1 i opejnd up the master app
12:26
it said to auto detect ltsp clients
12:27
<Treyh_>
ftherese, does it tell you the error?
12:27
<hipy>
but it only detected the laptop where the master app whas running
12:27
:p
12:28
<Gadi>
ftherese: do you have cups-bsd package installed in the chroot?
12:28
<hipy>
How do you install edubuntu on top of ubuntu ?
12:29
<Treyh_>
hipy: http://www.edubuntu.com/Documentation
12:29
<ftherese>
Gadi, I'll check it out
12:30
Gadi, you sure I need that? It takes up almost 100 megs
12:30
<Gadi>
??
12:30
shouldn't
12:30
its a small package
12:30
<ftherese>
it requires about 35 other packages
12:31
but hey, if I need it to get printing working from localapps I am willing to do it
12:31
<Gadi>
what if you do: apt-get install --no-recommends cups-bsd
12:31
oops
12:31
<ftherese>
yeah
12:32
that is much more sensible
12:32
<Gadi>
I mean: apt-get install --no-install-recommends cups-bsd
12:32
<ftherese>
5 packages
12:32
<Gadi>
I have found that some apps prefer the "/usr/bin/lpr" that comes with cups-bsd
12:32
and cups-bsd is installed by default in normal installs
12:33
<ftherese>
well... it seems that they are the major packages
12:33
i mean apps
12:33
like openoffice
12:36
I don't know who is working on things, but it would be nice as well to be able to access the .gvfs mounts from localapps too
12:37
I have a workaround, but it only works after you have opened the localapp
12:38
for example, if you double click on a openoffice docuement from a network share, it launches the program, but can't find the file because it doesn't know where .gvfs is
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12:45
<dings_>
hi channel
12:45
anybody awake?
12:46
i have a problem with my setup :-(
12:46Lns has joined #ltsp
12:46
<dings_>
i log into ldm and get a black screen
12:46
<ogra>
check ~/.xsession
12:46
err
12:46
check ~/.xsession-errors
12:46
<Lns>
Gadi: ping?
12:46* Lns waves to chan
12:46
<dings_>
ldm.log says "starting X session"
12:47
which looks OK to me
12:47
no .xsession-errors
12:47
<ogra>
did it work before ?
12:47
<dings_>
ogra: yeah, with 4.x on lenny
12:48
lenny/etch
12:48
<ogra>
4.x ?
12:48
that must be years ago then ;)
12:48
<dings_>
now its etch cause i wanted ltpsfs#
12:48
i might have screwed it up, because there are 2 servers
12:49
<ogra>
etch is quite outdated, you should use lenny
12:49
<dings_>
one does the tftp and nfs stuff
12:49
<ogra>
well, it boots ...
12:49
so you cant have it to wrong
12:49
<dings_>
and the other one is the one i wanted to run the applications on
12:49
<ogra>
you might need to set LDM_SERVER in lts.conf
12:50
pointing to your appserver
12:50
<dings_>
yeah server-1 is probaly ok, but server-2 must have st missing
12:50
it does
12:50
theres no X on server-2 though
12:50
i thought i didnt need that
12:51
<ogra>
do you see the login attempts in auth.log ?
12:52
<dings_>
a running x server
12:52
cause thats running on the client
12:52
<ogra>
on the appserver
12:52
you dont need X
12:52
you only need openssh-server on the appserver
12:52
ldm uses ssh
12:52
and with newer releases also ldm-server for session and language info
12:52
<hipy>
Are there more ways to connect to ltsp except pxe( like a terminal has a little config screen to what you can connect etc but that is not pxe )\
12:52
<ogra>
though i dont think thats in a stable debian release yet
12:52
<Treyh_>
what standard do you guys go by, for how much memory a ltsp server needs per each client, if the clients do not use local apps or ldm, they just rdesktop to TS
12:53
<ogra>
128M per running session
12:53
256M for the server itself
12:53
<dings_>
jupp, logging in works
12:53
and the ldm.log on the client looks happy too...
12:53
<ogra>
sounds good
12:54
what was it ? what did you change ?
12:54
<dings_>
nothing. i mean logging in always worked
12:54
<ogra>
oh, ok
12:55
do you have any desktop env installed on your appserver ?
12:55
<dings_>
hmm.... the server is unhappy about some missing locale stuff
12:56
<ogra>
should still write ~/.xsession-errors for that user
12:56
do you have x11-common installed ?
12:56
you definately need /etc/X11/Xsession
12:57
thats what ldm calls when it logs you in
12:57
(and what creates ~/.xsession-errors on startup)
12:58
<dings_>
ogra: yeah, that's there
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12:59
<ogra>
can you ssh in from a different machine with the user you currently try ?
12:59
<dings_>
i even put LDM_XSESSION=/etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc in my lts.conf
12:59
<ogra>
eek, dont do that
12:59
<dings_>
why not?
12:59
<ogra>
let the system do its stuff :)
13:00
/etc/X11/Xsession != /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc
13:00
<dings_>
i read somewhere that would do the trick in case the the ldmin-whatever doesnt work
13:01
on debian the former just calls the latter AFAICS
13:01
<ogra>
no, if you want to set a session command, use /etc/X11/Xsession
13:01
it does a lot more
13:01
<dings_>
no, the latter the former
13:01
man i'm tired
13:02
well actually i wanted to configure as litte as possible ;-)
13:03
<ogra>
right, you shouldnt need to
13:03
usually you should only need LDM_SERVER and have the proper ssh keys in your chroot for that
13:03
no other config would be needed
13:05
<dings_>
german keyboard in my case
13:05
<ogra>
hab ich mir gedacht bei deiner IP ;)
13:05
<Treyh_>
so for each pxe client, that is not running ldp/local apps, and is only running rdesktop, you guys recommend at least 128mb of memory on the server for each client
13:05
<dings_>
but yes, that's the idea
13:06
<alkisg>
Treyh_: how many terminals are you thinking?
13:06
<hipy>
question: would you be able to play an lan game with thin clinets?
13:06
<Treyh_>
alkisg, let me put it this way, I'm running 100 terminals on a server with 512mb of memory
13:07
<alkisg>
Treyh_: I imagine that if they don't logon to the server, you don't need much ram - just what the nbd-server needs...
13:07
<Treyh_>
alkisg, i agree, my calculations are about 8-10mb a piece
13:07
<ogra>
dings_, better wait for vagrantc, he maintains the debian port i can only talk for ubuntu ... but if you have a desktop environment installed that provides x-session-manager it should theoretically just work without any weird LDM_SESSION settings or some such
13:07
<hipy>
Anybody idea?
13:08
<Treyh_>
hipy, a lan game on ubuntu, what did you have in mind
13:08
<ogra>
Treyh_, thats not what i said :)
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13:09
<hipy>
unreal tournament 99 runs fine on it!:o
13:09
<ogra>
<ogra> 128M per running session
13:09
note the last word ;)
13:09
i was referring to desktop sessions on the server
13:09
<Treyh_>
ogra, ty for clarifying
13:09
<ogra>
for just firring up rdesktop i guess you can get through with a 512M server :)
13:10
dings_, there is your man ...
13:10
<Treyh_>
ogra, i just put a 1g in it
13:10
<ogra>
vagrantc, ^^^^
13:10
Treyh_, woah what a waste :P
13:10
<dings_>
ogra: yeah, i'd really like to see some log output that tells me what i need to change...
13:10
<vagrantc>
hm/
13:10
?
13:11
<ogra>
vagrantc, dings_ needs help for a two server setup
13:11
<dings_>
vagrantc: i want xsession-errors
13:11
<ogra>
one for boot, one as appserver
13:11
<dings_>
well, not really. but i'd take some for a start
13:11* vagrantc has to tend to other things right now
13:11
<ogra>
on etch if i got that right
13:11
<dings_>
no problem
13:11
<Treyh_>
hipy, install it as a local app but your graphics will probably not be geat and it will probably lag
13:11
<dings_>
ogra: tftp + nfs is on etch
13:11
works fine
13:12
<ogra>
indeed
13:12
<dings_>
to make things worse, it's all amd64
13:12
<ogra>
anyway, i need to go out before the shops close ...
13:12
<dings_>
the client-space was built on lenny and copied over though
13:13
should be almost too late, eh?
13:13
<Treyh_>
what is the fix for the caps lock not working in rdesktop, on ubuntu?
13:13
I read somewhere to use the 8.04 deb package of rdesktop and that would fix it
13:14
<ogra>
dings_, realkauf around the corner is open til 10 :) and pretty empty after 8 perfect time for shopping ;)
13:14
anyway, i'm out
13:14
<dings_>
thanks for ur help :)
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13:25
<Treyh_>
the caps lock doesn't work when using rdesktop, ubuntu 9.04
13:25
any ideas?
13:26
<Beer30>
Has anyone reported that the screen fonts in the Ubuntu Ltsp client are backwards? Mirrored actually. I just installed Ubuntu 9.04 today and created my chroot image and when I boot up my thin client and login the text is a mirrored image. I thought it was a different language at first... very odd.
13:27
<alkisg>
Beer30: I've seen that with an intel card on a laptop
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13:27
<Beer30>
humm... my thin client is an intel card.
13:27
<alkisg>
It wasn't mine, so I couldn't debug it... try to disable compiz and see if it makes any difference
13:27
<Beer30>
ok
13:27
<alkisg>
I've heard of another one report it here, but again no clear solution
13:28
There are also some XRANDR variables in lts.conf for rotation etc, you might want to try those as well
13:28
<Beer30>
wow... everything is like upside down too... this is going to be a challenge to maneuver the menus ;)
13:29
<alkisg>
Yeah, I've kept a screenshot just for the fun of it :)
13:29
<Beer30>
lol
13:29
<dings_>
can you telnet to ldminfod's port and it will actually say something?
13:30
<Beer30>
this would be a fun (but cruel) joke to play on my co-workers ;)
13:31
can you turn off compiz with a keystroke?
13:32
<Lns>
I remember the screen-flipping thing happening to someone a long time ago on a windows box that accidentally clicked on the Intel graphics systray icon and changed it...pretty funny actually
13:33
<dings_>
Beer30: ctrl-alt-f1?
13:34
<Beer30>
ahhh, got it :)
13:34
ya, definitely a compiz problem.
13:34
<Treyh_>
Lns, on a windows box, you hold down the left ctrl and left alt, then push an error key
13:35
<Lns>
is compiz enabled by default in jaunty ltsp??
13:35
<Beer30>
I just type alt-f2 to bring up the run box and typed metacity --replace
13:36
<alkisg>
Beer30: there's an option in the "appearance" to set effects = none
13:36
I think that should also work..
13:38
<Beer30>
ya, but trying to work the menus was giving me a headache... it's hard to explain, but the half of the screen appears to be upside down including the buttons.
13:38
<hipy>
Can i ask something?
13:38
<Beer30>
sure
13:39
<hipy>
Does the kubuntu alternate cd also have the ltsp option
13:39
just like the ubuntu alternate cd
13:39* Beer30 doesn't know
13:40* Beer30 is a gentoo guy experimenting with ubuntu ;)
13:41
<hipy>
Wow
13:41
<Beer30>
lol
13:41
<hipy>
gentoo install
13:41
then your lik,e
13:41
a genius
13:41
:P
13:41
What u use
13:41
gnome?
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13:42
<Beer30>
I personally use KDE, but Gnome seems to be a bit more stable for LTSP, plus it has lockdown features KDE 4 lacks.
13:42
<hipy>
lockdown
13:42
what u mean with that
13:42
:p
13:42
im not the most experienced unix user
13:42
i use it for servers mostl
13:42
y
13:42
have xp on my pc due to comaptible reasons
13:42
<johnny>
hipy, there's the kiosk tool for kde right?
13:42
<hipy>
abd ganes
13:42
<Beer30>
like so my non computer users don't mess up the menus and install proggies they don't need ;)
13:42
<hipy>
kiosk?
13:43
<Beer30>
ya, like kiosk... or exactly like kiosk
13:43
<hipy>
i have no experience with kde( well i had knoppix :P )
13:43
<johnny>
talking to Beer30
13:43
<hipy>
cool
13:43
johnny you said my nick
13:43
<Beer30>
hey johnny
13:43
<johnny>
oh oops.. you're right hipy sorry
13:43
typing too fast
13:43
<hipy>
^^
13:45
<Beer30>
johnny, as far as I know, kde4 does have kiosk mode, but kiosktool has not been ported to kde4 yet, so everything is done via the command line and editing multiple files.... and, on top of that, I can't really find a definitive guide on how to do it on kde4.
13:46
<johnny>
ah..
13:46
then go back to kde3?
13:46
<Beer30>
ya, I thought about it... my old, still in production use, ltsp 4.2 on Gentoo still uses KDE3, and works very well.
13:47
<hipy>
i like kde4 theme
13:47
but i use gnome:)
13:47
Its less complicated
13:50* Lns likes gnome better too..it doesn't try to be like explorer.exe ;) jmho
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13:55
<hipy>
lol
14:00
<Beer30>
well, right now, most of my end users use twm (ya, for real)... so anything will be an improvement ;).
14:05
<Lns>
it all depends on the env
14:05
I'd love to use fluxbox w/ltsp, but i don't think teachers would like it ;)
14:09
<johnny>
hmm.. why not lxde Lns ?
14:10
<Lns>
never heard of it
14:10
<johnny>
that seems less resource intensive than xfce, but more user friendly than flux
14:10
<Lns>
i've used fluxbox for ages
14:10
user friendly? we don't need no stinkin user friendly! =p
14:10
<johnny>
iirc there is a custom ubuntu with lxde, and they are trying to make it an official one
14:10
<Lns>
X was made to support opening multiple xterms ;)
14:11
<johnny>
if you just want that, you can use screen
14:12
<Lns>
screen = awesome
14:12
<johnny>
ogra, 2ghz arm!
14:12
wtf
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14:33
<dings_>
ogra: problem is solved. my test-user had the "wrong" shell. don't ask me why.
14:33
solution: bash(es) for everybody ;-)
14:35
probably some bizarre local config quirk. yeah! (just for the record)
14:35
have fun everybody
14:35dings_ has quit IRC
14:36
<Treyh_>
do you guys have any problems with keyboard keys, like caps lock when using ltsp?
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14:58
<treyh>
if my pxe server gets powered off, all my pxe clients should freeze, log out, or reboot correct?
14:58
<Lns>
treyh: pxe server?
14:59
<treyh>
Lns, I apologize, LTSP server
14:59
Lns, the tech at this location calls it his PXE server lol
14:59
<Lns>
treyh: in my experience, yeah, if ppl are logged in they'll freeze (localapps might be different?)...at LDM a lot of times you have to reboot them
14:59warren has joined #ltsp
15:00
<warren>
I'm looking at all changes in ldm since ldm-2.0.33
15:00
/etc/ldm/ldminfod-locale-whitelist what is the format of this file?
15:00
<Lns>
i'm also using ubu 8.04 which has older ltsp, so it might be different later on
15:00
<warren>
what are the contents of a modern ldm and ldminfod package?
15:00
<treyh>
Lns, thats what I was tinking, but it's off right now and one of my clients which is running rdesktop is still working like a pro
15:01
<Lns>
oh, well that might be different, yeah
15:01
if windows is on a diff server
15:01
rdesktop is still in client mem
15:01
that's all it really needs
15:01
<treyh>
Lns, well I think thats incredibly awesome
15:02
<Lns>
isn't it though?
15:03Gadi has left #ltsp
15:09
<alkisg>
treyh: well, if a cron job or something starts, it'll hang..
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15:28
<treyh>
looks like my clients just using rdesktop are using roughly around 28m's
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16:08
<treyh>
have you guys ever experienced audio that goes in and out
16:09
like someone is flipping a switch, off/on/off/on/off/on really broken up
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16:37
<Treyh_>
anyone around this time of the day/night ?
16:39Treyh_ has left #ltsp
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16:43
<Treyh_>
anyone around this hour?
16:44bobby_C has quit IRC
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16:57
<Treyh_>
anyone around?
17:00
<johnny>
just ask your question next time
17:00
!ask
17:00
<ltspbot`>
johnny: "ask" is Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least 15 minutes after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
17:00
<johnny>
we should add.. don't ask if people are around
17:02
<Treyh_>
lol agreed
17:03
my ltsp clients audio is weirding out
17:03
the audio is very choppy
17:03
<johnny>
probably pulse..
17:03
check your network and cpu usage
17:04
<Treyh_>
i've set sound = false in lts.conf
17:05
ltsp server, still has over 300m free of memory and there are only two ltsp clients turned on right now, cpu is at 90-99% idle
17:05
network monitor doesn't even show the switch trunnk ports (uplinks) at even hitting 1m of traffic
17:05
in lts.conf
17:05
does it have to be
17:06
SOUND = FALSE
17:06
or can it be sound = false
17:06
capitals letters shouldn't matter
17:07Beer30 has quit IRC
17:08
<johnny>
SOUND = FALSE
17:08
err SOUND=false
17:08
the vars have to be capitialized
17:08
they are environment vars
17:08
<Treyh_>
does it matter if false is capital?
17:08
<johnny>
no
17:09
i don't think so..
17:09
i just use N
17:09
<Treyh_>
just use n?
17:09
<johnny>
or n probably works
17:10
i also don't have spaces.. but i can't recall if it matters anymore
17:10
SOUND=N
17:10
<Treyh_>
i'll try that way
17:10
<johnny>
why are you trying to turn sound off?
17:11fotanus has quit IRC
17:11
<Treyh_>
Gadi suggested it, when i had audio issues last time
17:11
all audio was playing way too fast
17:11
like it was in fast forward
17:11
<johnny>
lol
17:12
<Treyh_>
so Gadi told me to set SOUND = false
17:12
<johnny>
i had that problem in fedora 11 with intel cards.. not thin client related tho
17:12
well.. that will make sound not work at all
17:12
<Treyh_>
but it does
17:12
it's just choppy
17:12
but it's choppy with or without that option
17:12
<johnny>
hmm .. that makes no sense.. in my understand of the var.. which could be wrong..
17:12
well.. check cpu on the client
17:12
and also whether you have intel sound
17:12Treyh_ has quit IRC
17:13
<johnny>
there were nasty issues related to that recently
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19:34
<sbalneav>
Evening all
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20:50
<IBC_jkenney>
Good Evening
20:51
Could someone help me with a problem i have with ubuntu 9.04 jaunty LTSP deployment
20:51
The problem i have is when using firefox the dropdown boxes on the website delay for 1 - 2 seconds
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21:00
<petre>
evening all
21:02
Is there a document on how to enable sshd on the client?
21:02
<johnny>
not really
21:03
chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
21:03
apt-get install openssh-server
21:03
exit
21:03
and the ltsp-update-image
21:03
then sshd will be enabled for all clients
21:03
the key will change tho..
21:03
so you'll have to accept the warning everytime
21:04
or you could add the key manually
21:04
<IBC_jkenney>
is there a fix for the delays in firefox
21:04
and some of the other applications
21:04
<johnny>
IBC_jkenney, try setting LDM_DIRECTX=Y in your lts.conf
21:04
and reboot the client
21:04
<IBC_jkenney>
will this fix all the screen draw problems
21:04
<johnny>
i have no idea
21:05
that could be a problem with the driver
21:05
any of it could be..
21:05
or your network
21:05
or high cpu usage
21:07
petre, got it?
21:08
<petre>
johnny, yes, I think so
21:09
johnny why does the key change?
21:10
<johnny>
because the key isn't there until it starts
21:10
and it doesn't start until it runs on the thin client
21:11
which doesn't have a writable place to save the key
21:11
<petre>
can I have a public key in root's $HOME within the chroot to eliminate the need for a password?
21:11
<johnny>
i guess
21:11
sure
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21:12
<johnny>
the key will still change tho
21:12
petre, btw. i'm talking about the host key here
21:12
those are what are going to be changing, unless you generate your own and put them in the chroot /etc/ssh
21:12
<petre>
johnny, right, so each time I connect to the client's sshd, my ssh client will say the key is unrecognized.
21:13
yes, I will generate the keys and put them in the chroot.
21:14
<johnny>
yeah it's good for you to generate them yourself
21:14
as it will make the thin clients startup slower every time due to key generation
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21:42
<IBC_jkenney>
didn't work
21:42
<johnny>
IBC_jkenney, then it could be your driver
21:43
or your network, etc
21:43
<IBC_jkenney>
its not the network
21:43
it could be the video driver
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21:50
<treyh>
all of my ltsp clients, no ldm only rdesktop, are having audio issues. sound clicks off and on, like it's being delayed
21:50
sound is very choppy
21:51
<johnny>
network issues treyh ?
21:51
<treyh>
johnny, btw, setting SOUND = N in my lts.conf, killed everything from working
21:51
<johnny>
you never said what cards you had either
21:51
killed everything?
21:51
or killed sound?
21:51
<treyh>
johnny, everything
21:52
johnny, the sound card in the clients are a wide range, many different types of machines, all in 1's, desktops, laptops (dell, gateway, lenovo, generic intel desktops)
21:52
<johnny>
that doesn't mean anything
21:52
what chipsets
21:52
that is what matters
21:53
intel drivers had a serious issue in the some of the recent kernels
21:53
<treyh>
i know that one of my test stations, is intel
21:53
which that makes sense, with the new kernel coming out what about 2 weeks ago?
21:54
johnny: the weird thing is that it is effecting 100% of my clients
21:54
<johnny>
well i have no idea
21:54
network?
21:54
is it the network?
21:55
high cpu on the server?
21:55
<treyh>
not the network or high cpu utilization either
21:56
I spent the last couple days resolving a STP loop on our cisco switches, other than that no network issues
21:56
the problem started before the STP loop and continues after it was fixed
21:56
<johnny>
well guess you're gonna have to do deeper troubleshooting
21:57
<treyh>
yes I know, not really sure where to look from here though
21:58
guess I'll look into rdesktop sound issues
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22:06
<twb>
I need GUI users to be notified of wall(1) warnings from shutdown(8). I found http://bugs.debian.org/433960 which indicates that LTSP is/was interested in the problem. Has there been any progress on it since that ticket's latest comment?
22:07
<johnny>
twb, try back some other time when the other developers are here
22:07
or post to the list
22:07
now is not a good time for this channel
22:07
<twb>
No worries, I'll just lurk for a while.
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23:14
<IBC_jkenney>
hello
23:14
i am still working on my ltsp issue
23:15
the problem is not the video card drive.
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23:50
<alkisg>
IBC_jkenney: what's the problem? Any error messages?